Author Topic: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?  (Read 2018 times)

red_pill

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Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« on: December 19, 2021, 11:53:43 AM »
So it suddenly occurred to me that my employer has a self-funded Leave Without Pay program.  I can put up to 33% of my current salary away for however long as I want, and can then take 6 months to 12 months off.

So, for example, I can get them to withhold 20% of my wages for 4 years, and then the 5th year, take the whole year off at 80% pay (which is what I would be living off for the next 4 years anyway). 

We would have our 16 or 17 year old with us (depending one when we do it).

Has anyone ever done anything like this?  We don't even know how to structure our decision making.

A) How long?   Doing a full year has advantages (can rent the house out for a year and would offset costs. we can register the kid in school where ever we land, and we would probably set up shop somewhere and do smaller trips from there).   But, doing 6 months is less daunting, the kid can do online / home schooling, and we can be less tied down.

What are the relevant considerations for the "how long" question?

B) Vagabond or Expat?  Do we rent an apartment somewhere for the whole time?  Or just a few weeks at a time?  Do we plan it out in detail before we go?  Or just go where the wind blows us? 

C) What the heck do we do with our time?  I could do my PhD (sort of a bucket list especially if I could go to a prestigious school, and makes visas easier I suppose and most schools have graduate family housing, etc)

D) How do we even begin figuring out how to structure this?

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2021, 01:04:26 PM »
A) How long?   Doing a full year has advantages (can rent the house out for a year and would offset costs. we can register the kid in school where ever we land, and we would probably set up shop somewhere and do smaller trips from there).   But, doing 6 months is less daunting, the kid can do online / home schooling, and we can be less tied down.

What are the relevant considerations for the "how long" question?

B) Vagabond or Expat?  Do we rent an apartment somewhere for the whole time?  Or just a few weeks at a time?  Do we plan it out in detail before we go?  Or just go where the wind blows us? 

C) What the heck do we do with our time?  I could do my PhD (sort of a bucket list especially if I could go to a prestigious school, and makes visas easier I suppose and most schools have graduate family housing, etc)

D) How do we even begin figuring out how to structure this?

A) Since you are going with a teenager, I would do a full year.  That way you get the full school year plus a summer.  I think there would be great benefits for your teen enrolling in school vs. trying to do online school -- definitely more immersion in the language and culture, more connections with others, etc.  Making friends with people and exploring the area based on that.

B) I would probably choose someplace in Europe where you can easily travel to other countries, and I would plan to rent an apartment for the duration, which should lower accommodation and food costs.  That would give you more funds for area travel.  And I would probably choose a country sooner rather than later so you all can learn the language.  It wouldn't be so great for your teen to arrive in a country and then be put in a school or classroom for students who don't speak the language.  We had family members move back to Europe, and for the first year one of their children was able to go to the local school because they had learned the language over the summer before school started, but the other one had to be bussed to a different school because they didn't have enough of the language for the local school.

Another option could be New Zealand, especially if you are more into nature than old cities, and if you don't want to learn a new language.  We have friends who recently spent about 18 months there, and they loved it.

C) I wouldn't worry about work and productivity.  There's no way I would pursue a graduate degree, which is time consuming and would take away from the experience of being somewhere else.  I would treat it as a pre-FIRE experiment and really get to know myself and just destress from the work world.  The only schooling I might consider would be local cooking lessons.  I might take up some hobbies, and I would read a lot.

D) It doesn't seem too hard to structure.  You research and choose a location based on your interests, the affordability, and the ability to use it as a home base for other exploration.  You might even take a short vacation to the area to check it out ahead of time.  You start learning language if you need to.  You figure out if you're going to rent out your home while you are gone (to offset costs), and make preparations for that.  Plenty of people have done this, and you can connect with them and get tips.

AMandM

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2021, 02:51:43 PM »
I have done this three times, twice for a year each and once for 6 months, always in Germany, with younger kids than yours.

A) A year is better than six months, imo. You get to experience all the seasons and all the holidays/festivals. Also adjusting to life abroad takes a while, and six months is hardly time to get into the groove.  I personally would find six months of vagabonding and online schooling really unsettled and unsettling, but it might suit your personalities. An academic year is more convenient in some ways than a calendar year: it keeps your child's schooling simple, you can rent out your house to an academic family if there's a university near you.

Even though we homeschooled in the US, we deliberately made sure our kids learned some German ahead of time and registered them in German schools. There are several reasons for this, some of which may be less applicable to a 16- or 17-yo than to our kids. 1) We wanted them to get to know other kids, so that we their parents would not have to provide their entire social life, and this was the most efficient way to do so. 2) I knew I would not have as much time to devote to homeschooling since learning the infrastructure of life in a new country would take up a lot of my time. 3) We wanted them to become fluent enough in German that they could interact with the world around them on their own, not needing us to mediate everything.

If you pick a country whose language you already know, some of this is less relevant. Myself, I could happily spend a year in just the British Isles. My husband would love South Africa.

B) Again, this is a personality thing, but I would rent an apartment in some city, send your kid to school there, and use it as a home base for travel. I would pick a city/region with a lot of interesting things nearby for day trips as well. To me, learning how life works in my new country (as opposed to touristing) would be a big part of the fun of the year. I would avoid hanging out too much with other expats.

C) Immerse yourself in the new place. Learn the language, visit all the local spots of interest, learn the local history, learn the local foods, volunteer to tutor local kids, join a local amateur orchestra, plant a garden or just a window box, read the great works by the country's authors, ....
Another way to answer this question is to think about what you plan to do when you FIRE.

D) I'd start by picking a country, and do that by thinking about what you'd like: medieval city? Mountains? Tropical climate? Then narrow it down to a region/town, then look online at apartment rentals.

Our times in Germany were great adventures that created lots of strong family ties. Enjoy!
And feel free to PM me if you want more detailed info about Germany.

darknight

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2021, 03:16:42 PM »
Has anyone ever done anything like this?  We don't even know how to structure our decision making.

Yes, spent nearly 2 years in China and both kids were under 5 yrs when we first went over. (From the states)
I'd say, make a timeline and a spreadsheet. You'll need to decide where you're going first then start. Each country has different requirements for vaccines, passports, visas, etc. From the time we decided to go to when we went it took nearly 7 months of prep for all the paperwork plus $$. The spreadsheet was the only way I kept everything in line.


A) How long?   Doing a full year has advantages (can rent the house out for a year and would offset costs. we can register the kid in school where ever we land, and we would probably set up shop somewhere and do smaller trips from there).   But, doing 6 months is less daunting, the kid can do online / home schooling, and we can be less tied down. What are the relevant considerations for the "how long" question?

-Think about things like: do you have pets? Where will you store your belongings you won't want to sell if you spend an extended time? Any health issues needing to be addressed? Cell phones? Schooling for kids?
--I don't think I've met anyone who was happy spending shorter time abroad when they could have opted to spend more. I've lived in NZ (1.5 yrs), China (2 yrs), and traveled to multiple countries.
---Go somewhere, and be there. Spend a year. At the end of it, you'll be figuring out how to do it again. I'll buy you a pack of your beer of choice if I'm wrong.

B) Vagabond or Expat?  Do we rent an apartment somewhere for the whole time?  Or just a few weeks at a time?  Do we plan it out in detail before we go?  Or just go where the wind blows us?

-If you are going to a non-english speaking country you can find a job that will provide plenty of living money but more importantly housing, internet, possibly foreign insurance, travel benefit and more. If you don't want to do that, make a list of your countries and decide what will be easiest/fitting visa-wise.
--Living overseas, you'll see other foreigners who are tourists who never really experience the country. If you're going to go, GO.
---Again, it depends on the country. If you can drive during your stay, maybe rent an RV and go where the wind blows. Look up local restrictions, laws etc wherever you're going..

C) What the heck do we do with our time?  I could do my PhD (sort of a bucket list especially if I could go to a prestigious school, and makes visas easier I suppose and most schools have graduate family housing, etc)

-See above, if you go to a non english speaking country, get a job teaching. Sure you may not need the money etc but it will fill your time and you'll meet people who you can help. When we lived abroad teaching (we're self employed here in the states and worked that while we were in China) I LOVED working with the kids and would sometimes go to places where other foreigners wouldn't and help kids with their english homework for free. My advice, never travel to just add to your life experience. Travel to learn. It will change your life and more importantly, your kids.

D) How do we even begin figuring out how to structure this?

-First, decide to go. For real. It will come easy once you do. Select a country. We used a placement agency for teaching and actually didn't have a say in what city as we had kids and were at their decision of housing etc. I would have never chosen the city we ended up in, but went back for a second year and miss it daily.
--Don't complicate it.
---When the process of moving, travel, storage, health insurance cell phones are getting to be headaches, I promise it will be worth the hassle.




Last night my wife and I were chatting over a drink about "what if" we hadn't gone to China. I can't imagine missing out. As a grown man I learned more than I would have guessed, learned to let myself cry and grow, and it changed my family's life forever in an excellent way. It wasn't always easy and there were hard days, but we're going to go back again. You can't afford not going, especially when you can take your kids. People we know talked to us before we left (with our 10 month old and 4 yr old) and "wished" they could do something like we were doing... They can, you can. You just have to be willing to change, sell things that you're not going to store, the list goes on. What you give up will come back 10x in experience.

Please DM me or respond here if you have questions. Even silly ones, like I had.. "do they have contact solution abroad" etc :)
Best of travels to you.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2021, 04:54:38 PM »
We took our kids out of school for just about a school year when they were 8 and 10 and sailed to the Bahamas and the Dominican Republic and back. Might be the absolute best year they had in terms of learning, exploring, and being. I'm a huge believer in the educational experience of travel. Yes yes yes!

Structure decision making by starting with someplace you'd like to explore. Period. My friend Michele Damiani has written a book on how to tackle the whole idea - she pulled it together after she and her family (3 kids) spent a year in Italy. They've just gotten back after a second such sojourn. https://www.amazon.com/Road-Taken-Family-Adventure-Abroad-ebook/dp/B07HQS2Y27

I think @AMandM hit the nail on the head exactly when they said "decide to go. For real."

Can't wait to read about your trip.

AMandM

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2021, 08:25:21 AM »
I think @AMandM hit the nail on the head exactly when they said "decide to go. For real."

That was @darknight, not me, but I agree.

Also, I came back to add: Talk to your kid! Would this trip mean missing senior year of high school? Would it be a post-graduation gap year? Age 16/17 is old enough to have input about the destination, including language issues, and the schooling options.

KarefulKactus15

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2021, 06:32:10 PM »
I've been waiting for a thread like this. I want to do a similar thing and had similar questions.

In my case I would have to start easy.  Plop down in the middle or Europe somewhere and explore out from there.

I would be terrified to do South America, South Africa, or China. (Fears increasing in that order)


SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2021, 07:33:48 AM »
I think @AMandM hit the nail on the head exactly when they said "decide to go. For real."

That was @darknight, not me, but I agree.

Also, I came back to add: Talk to your kid! Would this trip mean missing senior year of high school? Would it be a post-graduation gap year? Age 16/17 is old enough to have input about the destination, including language issues, and the schooling options.

+1

red_pill

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2021, 08:47:21 PM »
Some awesome tips.

A few updates on planning:

I looked more into the reduced wage savings plan - there is a nasty pension by back, and I can retire December 2024 anyway with a defined benefit pension, so there isn't much benefit to not just retiring.

This actually lines up perfectly with the last half of Grade 11, which means we avoid missing her senior year in high school.

We will be doing a recon mission for 3 weeks in spring break 2023 for our top 3 picks - Greece, Portugal and Italy.   And then go from there.

Thanks again!

Chris Pascale

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2021, 09:03:35 PM »


This actually lines up perfectly with the last half of Grade 11, which means we avoid missing her senior year in high school.

11th grade is such a scam anyway, and the kids are pressured into believing it's so important.

My oldest spent 10th grade in Australia as an exchange student, then did a trade program that people typically say is for the kids who aren't college material. She's a hard science major right now and really likes it.

My second daughter just skipped from 10th to 12th. She's very bright and driven, but just about any kid who passes their classes can do this, and this wasn't well-planned; as she was wrapping up 10th grade, her foreign exchange was cancelled again. She asked if I'd be okay with her getting her GED and starting college. I was, but suggested she tell her guidance counselor while asking how many classes are left. A few clicks into the computer later, and that sophomore was a senior.

lutorm

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2021, 11:57:24 PM »
What's the big deal about missing some class in US school? Plenty of countries have better schools than here, it might even be an advantage. ;-)

Chris Pascale

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2021, 04:58:47 AM »
What's the big deal about missing some class in US school? Plenty of countries have better schools than here, it might even be an advantage. ;-)

It's something in the culture of the schools. They do everything they can to convince the kids and parents that their "high school resume" isn't some kind of dumb joke, including volunteering that could be selling sodas at the football games.

There's an unhealthy obsessions with a test called the SAT, and in my state (NY) there's a standard called the Regents, which people are actually convinced means something, like when I post here that I have a Regents Diploma, all you guys are gonna be like 'oh, shit! I wasn't going to read that guy's writing, but now that I know he's such a scholar, I really ought to.' They have something called the Honors Society, which many many many people qualify for, and then their parents pay for them to be in.

HenryDavid

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2021, 10:19:43 AM »
Learn the language.
As much as possible before leaving. Then build on that.

Dee18

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2021, 01:28:06 PM »
I spent a semester in China with my daughter when she was in 6th grade.  We were both so sorry we had opted for 6 months instead of a year when it was time to leave.  I had a teaching job at a university and she attended an international school.  It was one of the best years of my life.  I also spent a full year traveling around the world after college, also a fabulous year.  In China my job and my daughter's school helped us meet a lot of people quickly and spend time with Chinese people (my students) as well as expats from all over the world (her classmates and teachers). I met a few Americans who had gone there to live for extended time without jobs or kids in school and they had a much harder time meeting people.  In your situation I would really try to plan ahead for how to meet people.

darknight

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2021, 01:48:36 PM »
I spent a semester in China with my daughter when she was in 6th grade.  We were both so sorry we had opted for 6 months instead of a year when it was time to leave.  I had a teaching job at a university and she attended an international school.  It was one of the best years of my life.  I also spent a full year traveling around the world after college, also a fabulous year.  In China my job and my daughter's school helped us meet a lot of people quickly and spend time with Chinese people (my students) as well as expats from all over the world (her classmates and teachers). I met a few Americans who had gone there to live for extended time without jobs or kids in school and they had a much harder time meeting people.  In your situation I would really try to plan ahead for how to meet people.

What province? I can't tell you how may foreigners that came over and regretted not staying longer.. It's impossible to imagine how it will change and better your life. The saddest thing for me is to watch others "plan" to travel when they get older or retire.

Dee18

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2021, 05:35:24 PM »
We were in Xiamen in Fujian province.  Turned out to be a lovely home with a relaxed feel and good air quality.  My favorite expression which was often repeated was, "The mountains are high and the emperor is far away...."  meaning they didn't worry too much about what Beijing said the rules were.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Spending a year abroad with spouse + kids - Where to start?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2021, 07:39:59 PM »
Bucking the Trend (Jed) did this in 2013 (https://bucking-the-trend.com/about/) and looks like they stopped posting around 2019.  I lived as an expat for about 3 years in Norway and 3 years in Dubai with my family of 4.  Way easier to do it through work and when the kids were younger, so I don't have 100% relevant advice, but highly encourage it.  I loosely quote someone I think when I say, "international travel is the best education a person can get"...

But also agree with posters above, you just have to dive in and not think about it too much.  When we moved to Norway, we sold our house, cars, and had one storage unit for our remaining earthly possessions.  Our kids were one and three years old and we'd never even been to Norway before...