Some Americans Give Up Citizenshup Due to Tax Laws

[oldtoyota]

We've talked about this on this board before. I believe there is a woman here who lives in France and works as a therapist, and she wrote about this topic.

What a shame the US makes working abroad hard on its citizens. I had a coworker who was complaining about how much he would have to pay the US in taxes every year when he returns to his original country. I can't recall the figure, but it was an astonishing amount. On top of that, he has to pay someone to make sure the forms are all done correctly.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/expats-ditching-u-s--passports-151127757.html

[galliver]

I think citizenship as it stands now-based on location or parentage at birth-is an outdated concept. You can be a citizen of a country you've never even been to. Or you can live 20 of your first 25 years in a country without becoming a citizen. I think it's ridiculous, and you should get to choose at 18 where you want to pledge your loyalty, based on where you grew up, were educated, have friends, family, etc.

[seanc0x0]

This has been a rather large source of stress for me over the last year. It figures this would be the first post to draw me out of lurker status. :)

I am a dual citizen, born in the US (to an American dad and Canadian mom, so I'm dual from birth) but moved to Canada when I was 5.  I have been here 31 years now, and don't intend to leave. I've spent my entire school and work life as a Canadian and don't feel much attachment to the US.

Until recently I didn't even know about the fact that unlike every other country in the world except Eritrea, the US requires all citizens to file taxes no matter where in the world they live or work.  The US government recently decided to start cracking down on those who live/work abroad, ostensibly to catch tax evaders. Unfortunately, the way they've gone about it catches primarily normal everyday working American citizens who now have to go through a huge process of disclosing bank accounts (including those they might have any control over, such as spousal/joint accounts which makes my wife rather unhappy) or face being cut off from banking altogether.

As a dual citizen, I could have chosen one or the other of my citizenships when I turned 18. Unfortunately, I didn't know enough about what I was doing at that time... if I'd known what I'd have been facing I'd have made a different decision.

I've spent the last year worrying about what to do, flip-flopping a few times, and finally getting everything in order. At the beginning of April, we're taking a fun family trip to Calgary so I can go to the consulate, drop $450, and become un-American.

[Albert]

This has been a rather large source of stress for me over the last year. It figures this would be the first post to draw me out of lurker status. :)

I am a dual citizen, born in the US (to an American dad and Canadian mom, so I'm dual from birth) but moved to Canada when I was 5.  I have been here 31 years now, and don't intend to leave. I've spent my entire school and work life as a Canadian and don't feel much attachment to the US.

Until recently I didn't even know about the fact that unlike every other country in the world except Eritrea, the US requires all citizens to file taxes no matter where in the world they live or work.  The US government recently decided to start cracking down on those who live/work abroad, ostensibly to catch tax evaders. Unfortunately, the way they've gone about it catches primarily normal everyday working American citizens who now have to go through a huge process of disclosing bank accounts (including those they might have any control over, such as spousal/joint accounts which makes my wife rather unhappy) or face being cut off from banking altogether.

As a dual citizen, I could have chosen one or the other of my citizenships when I turned 18. Unfortunately, I didn't know enough about what I was doing at that time... if I'd known what I'd have been facing I'd have made a different decision.

I've spent the last year worrying about what to do, flip-flopping a few times, and finally getting everything in order. At the beginning of April, we're taking a fun family trip to Calgary so I can go to the consulate, drop $450, and become un-American.

I know personally a woman in a very similar situation here in Switzerland. Born to Dutch parents in US, left at age 8 for Germany and never had anything to do with US in later life. Now also gathering documents and consulting lawyers to figure out a way how to get out of the mess in the least painful way.

I suspect there is a fair number of such "semi-Americans" living abroad for whom the new financial rules are making the life more difficult...

[Ambergris]

As a British person applying for citizenship, who may or may not return to the UK in retirement, I actually don't find this too worrying.

While the requirement is to file a tax return every year, regardless of where you live, the tax rules allow you both to exclude a large amount of foreign earned income from US taxes (I believe it is >$80000 this year) and you get credit for foreign taxes paid against your owed US taxes (there may be limits on this latter I don't know about, but its unlikely to ever be an issue for me). But I know that, at least for people with middle class incomes, there is little or no double taxation and the law is set up to avoid it.  If you have bank accounts overseas you have to report them if they have more than $10,000.  This is not an issue for me since all my money is over here.

Interestingly, the US/UK tax treaty is set up so that you pay retirement account taxes to the country where the original pension was invested.  This means if I did go back to the UK, taxes on non-Roth 403b etc money would be due to the US authorities, rather than the UK authorities; the upshot is that my tax position would change hardly at all regardless of where I lived.

What having US citizenship rather than a green card does do is give me vastly more flexibility about where to live and stay and for how long: it actually makes it easier to leave the US with the intention of coming back later.

Disclaimer: This is my well-intentioned opinion; I am not a tax professional or immigration attorney.

[Albert]

It's different for you because you actually live in US. Income for a married couple in Switzerland where I live could easily be significantly more than the tax free amount allowed. And in fact it's more about difficulty of opening bank accounts, investments etc. Many banks here would flat out refuse anyone connected with US or charge significantly more...

[oldtoyota]

As a British person applying for citizenship, who may or may not return to the UK in retirement, I actually don't find this too worrying.

Yes. I can see why. The laws affect expats more as opposed to people living in the US. The article points out how Americans abroad are having trouble opening up bank accounts, etc, etc.

[Ambergris]

It's different for you because you actually live in US. Income for a married couple in Switzerland where I live could easily be significantly more than the tax free amount allowed. And in fact it's more about difficulty of opening bank accounts, investments etc. Many banks here would flat out refuse anyone connected with US or charge significantly more...

Yes; the point is that this would apply even if I went back to live in the UK for any amount of time.  The UK has sorted out some of the issues with FATCA reporting to the US.  I'm really sorry this has become such a problem for you: personally I think it's outrageous that the US government is trying to force foreign governments to do this, and its a bullying way to behave.  I provided the info above just so folks from the UK would have some idea what the issues might be (or not be) for them - I didn't intend for it to seem that I was unconcerned about your situation.

[seanc0x0]

Yes; the point is that this would apply even if I went back to live in the UK for any amount of time.  The UK has sorted out some of the issues with FATCA reporting to the US.  I'm really sorry this has become such a problem for you: personally I think it's outrageous that the US government is trying to force foreign governments to do this, and its a bullying way to behave.  I provided the info above just so folks from the UK would have some idea what the issues might be (or not be) for them - I didn't intend for it to seem that I was unconcerned about your situation.

The Canadian government also negotiated a FATCA treaty with the US. Most of us consider it pretty much useless, as all it does is move the reporting of Candian citizens (with US indicia, but still Canadian citizens) to a foreign government from the banks to the CRA (Canadian version of the IRS).  Most of the complaints have been based on the fact it creates a two-tiered class structure for citizens. It's a large part of why many 'accidental Americans' such as myself are renouncing.

[Ambergris]

Yes; the point is that this would apply even if I went back to live in the UK for any amount of time.  The UK has sorted out some of the issues with FATCA reporting to the US.  I'm really sorry this has become such a problem for you: personally I think it's outrageous that the US government is trying to force foreign governments to do this, and its a bullying way to behave.  I provided the info above just so folks from the UK would have some idea what the issues might be (or not be) for them - I didn't intend for it to seem that I was unconcerned about your situation.

The Canadian government also negotiated a FATCA treaty with the US. Most of us consider it pretty much useless, as all it does is move the reporting of Candian citizens (with US indicia, but still Canadian citizens) to a foreign government from the banks to the CRA (Canadian version of the IRS).  Most of the complaints have been based on the fact it creates a two-tiered class structure for citizens. It's a large part of why many 'accidental Americans' such as myself are renouncing.

Ick.  I'm sorry to hear that.  Are you finding your bank accounts are actively being closed, charged or held up by the Canadian response to FATCA?  Or is the issue more about reporting directly to the IRS/providing US tax returns?

[MrFancypants]

It's sad that the US government is treating people this way.  Shameful, really.

[lsalinas]

It seems like this affects people who don't have any real ties to the US or have lived abroad for years with no intention of returning.  I am sure needing to officially renounce your citizenship is a pain, but it seems like those who are doing it didn't have a use for the citizenship anyways.   I am sure that if you are working abroad for only a few years it is a pain to file the taxes when you are out of the country, but then again its a pain to do taxes when you live here!   So I guess taxes suck for every American and I don't see why it is so concerning that the taxes suck even more for Americans that live abroad.  People change citizenship around the world all the time, so I am not sure why Americans changing or renouncing their citizenship is such a hot topic in the media. 

[seanc0x0]

The Canadian government also negotiated a FATCA treaty with the US. Most of us consider it pretty much useless, as all it does is move the reporting of Candian citizens (with US indicia, but still Canadian citizens) to a foreign government from the banks to the CRA (Canadian version of the IRS).  Most of the complaints have been based on the fact it creates a two-tiered class structure for citizens. It's a large part of why many 'accidental Americans' such as myself are renouncing.

Ick.  I'm sorry to hear that.  Are you finding your bank accounts are actively being closed, charged or held up by the Canadian response to FATCA?  Or is the issue more about reporting directly to the IRS/providing US tax returns?

There are rather severe penalties for any financial institutions that don't report all their clients with US indicia (whether or not they're Canadian citizens), and any accounts they may hold.  At least with the new agreement, they won't report RRSP, RESP, and TFSA accounts (though TFSA gains are still taxable by the US gov't).  A lot of people feel like the Canadian government has thrown them under the FATCA bus.

I look forward to receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality, so I can put this all behind me. And also finally take advantage of a TFSA. :)

[oldtoyota]

It seems like this affects people who don't have any real ties to the US or have lived abroad for years with no intention of returning.  I am sure needing to officially renounce your citizenship is a pain, but it seems like those who are doing it didn't have a use for the citizenship anyways.   I am sure that if you are working abroad for only a few years it is a pain to file the taxes when you are out of the country, but then again its a pain to do taxes when you live here!   So I guess taxes suck for every American and I don't see why it is so concerning that the taxes suck even more for Americans that live abroad.  People change citizenship around the world all the time, so I am not sure why Americans changing or renouncing their citizenship is such a hot topic in the media.

It's a hot topic because we're one of only two countries in the entire world to tax citizens when they work and earn income abroad. Remember, if you are an American living in Switzerland, you have the general hassle of filing Swiss taxes PLUS the hassle of filing American taxes. The reverse isn't true.

Nice explanation. =-)

[SwordGuy]

For those of you who are "accidental Americans", I don't blame you for renouncing your US citizenship.   Seems perfectly reasonable.

I'm an "accidental Frenchman".  My father was in the US Army and stationed in France when I was born.  I've never bothered to do anything about my dual citizenship status because, well, I don't care about it enough to.  But if France became a pain in the rear about it I would renounce it in a heartbeat.

For those of you who are "full Americans" who choose to become citizens of another country solely over taxes, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. 

That's so it won't be in the way of the rest of us who would gladly kick you in the ass to help you on your way.  :)

[seanc0x0]

For those of you who are "accidental Americans", I don't blame you for renouncing your US citizenship.   Seems perfectly reasonable.

I'm an "accidental Frenchman".  My father was in the US Army and stationed in France when I was born.  I've never bothered to do anything about my dual citizenship status because, well, I don't care about it enough to.  But if France became a pain in the rear about it I would renounce it in a heartbeat.

For those of you who are "full Americans" who choose to become citizens of another country solely over taxes, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. 

That's so it won't be in the way of the rest of us who would gladly kick you in the ass to help you on your way.  :)

You bring up an important point. I'm not renouncing my citizenship because I want to keep all my precious moneys from the ebil US government.  Since the US/Canada Tax treaty means I don't have to pay taxes anyway, it's not about taxes. It's about having to report my finances to a government I have had nothing to do with for the last 31 years.  I would like to keep my US Citizenship, since it is a part of who I am... I was born there, my dad's family is from there, etc.  But since I intend to remain where I am, there's no real advantage to being American, but I still have to file taxes every year and report my wife's finances to them... no thanks!

[expatartist]

For those of you who are "accidental Americans", I don't blame you for renouncing your US citizenship.   Seems perfectly reasonable.

I'm an "accidental Frenchman".  My father was in the US Army and stationed in France when I was born.  I've never bothered to do anything about my dual citizenship status because, well, I don't care about it enough to.  But if France became a pain in the rear about it I would renounce it in a heartbeat.

For those of you who are "full Americans" who choose to become citizens of another country solely over taxes, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. 

That's so it won't be in the way of the rest of us who would gladly kick you in the ass to help you on your way.  :)

Some of us are in between: while I was born and raised in the US, I left (pretty much for good) a decade ago. No definitive plans to return to the US for anything but family visits, which will increase as my parents get older. However I would like the option of working there if I'd need to live closer to family for a while. Long-term we will probably be based in Europe after another 5-10 years in Asia (my job is pretty niche and options, benefits and pay are much better here), so at some point we'll be in the UK for the required amount of time for my naturalization (currently, 6 years). At that point I'll revisit whether it's worth it to keep the US citizenship or not. It'll depend mainly on our family situation, and just marginally on taxes.

My current salary doesn't exceed the threshold for taxation overseas, but in the future it could. DH and I keep our finances separate. We've also been investing in RE rather than keeping cash/assets around to avoid any problems with investigations by the US gov't -- though we're pretty small fry at this point. I would like to diversify but this is a big headache in terms of what options are open to me as a US citizen overseas.

Edited for spelling and clarifications.

[johnintaiwan]

I don't understand what the problem here is. I have lived/worked abroad nearly all of my adult life and plan on living abroad for the remainder of it. Yes, I have to file taxes every year which is a bit annoying, but as other have pointed out, if I make less than ~80K a year I don't have to pay. Also, if I do make more and end up owing, I can deduct what I have paid to the country I live in.

As far as I can tell, the bottom line is that you do receive benefits by having US citizenship even if you don't reside there. If you don't think those benefits are worth the price you pay in tax, or the annoyance of filing taxes, then simply renounce your citizenship.

I am interested to know why people who are upset about this have not given up citizenship.

[expatartist]

@JohninTaiwan As stated in the article, living overseas (particularly in certain countries) as an American means:

* It's harder to open a bank account in some places (though I've not had this problem in Asia) - some banks won't work with Americans because the US gov't makes it too difficult
* Bank and investment fees can be significantly higher for us
* Visas and travel to certain countries can be a pain or more expensive
* Health insurance premiums can be higher

Misc. thoughts sparked by the article, for me:
* Filing taxes overseas is relatively straightforward, though I've been lax about this in the past.
* It can take many years to get citizenship of another country.
* Giving up one's native citizenship can be tough emotionally. As much as I'm ambivalent about the US, and may not live there again, it's a huge part of who I am.
* I've been told that traveling to the US after having renounced one's citizenship can be fraught at immigration
* It's difficult to combine any finances with my non-US husband, who rightfully feels his finances are none of the US gov't business


Edited to add: According to comments on the article, it can cost a significant chunk of change to give up one's passport, as well.

[beltim]

I don't understand what the problem here is. I have lived/worked abroad nearly all of my adult life and plan on living abroad for the remainder of it. Yes, I have to file taxes every year which is a bit annoying, but as other have pointed out, if I make less than ~80K a year I don't have to pay. Also, if I do make more and end up owing, I can deduct what I have paid to the country I live in.

As far as I can tell, the bottom line is that you do receive benefits by having US citizenship even if you don't reside there. If you don't think those benefits are worth the price you pay in tax, or the annoyance of filing taxes, then simply renounce your citizenship.

I am interested to know why people who are upset about this have not given up citizenship.

In some countries -- such as Switzerland -- it's becoming increasingly difficult for Americans to get bank accounts at all.  Most companies won't touch them with a ten-foot pole, because then they become subject to various US reporting requirements.  No other country does this.  Did you read the article?

People can be upset about this if they plan on ever returning to the US.

[johnintaiwan]

I understand the difficulties that it can cause. There are other aspects about moving to a different country that can be difficult as well such as not knowing the language, being looked at as an outsider, not being close to friends and family, the list goes on. But this seems to be a recurring theme on this forum, no one forced you to make these decisions. If you didn't want to deal with these matters, then you shouldn't have moved abroad. If you have never been to the US and have no ties then just give up citizenship. If you chose to leave for whatever reason and want to keep ties with the US, live with your choice. If it is impossible (or very difficult) to open a bank account in a country, and opening a bank account is important to you, then maybe don't go to that country?

[greaper007]

What's the tax limit for income earned outside the country?   Isn't it north of $110,000, and then you're only paying on the money in excess of that number?   Perhaps my facts and understanding are outdated, but taxes on income that high doesn't really seem that excessive to me.    Honestly, the US still has some of the lowest taxes of most of the developed world.    I used to know some Swedes that laughed when I told them about my dad complaining about his top tax bracket.    They said that rich Swedes would swim across the Atlantic to pay that rate.

[oldtoyota]

What's the tax limit for income earned outside the country?   Isn't it north of $110,000, and then you're only paying on the money in excess of that number?   Perhaps my facts and understanding are outdated, but taxes on income that high doesn't really seem that excessive to me.    Honestly, the US still has some of the lowest taxes of most of the developed world.    I used to know some Swedes that laughed when I told them about my dad complaining about his top tax bracket.    They said that rich Swedes would swim across the Atlantic to pay that rate.

Wait. We're comparing the US taxes to Swedish taxes now? Doesn't Sweden offer its citizens healthcare? I don't think you can compare the two countries when it comes to taxes unless you also compare the services offered its citizens.

[beltim]

What's the tax limit for income earned outside the country?   Isn't it north of $110,000, and then you're only paying on the money in excess of that number?   Perhaps my facts and understanding are outdated, but taxes on income that high doesn't really seem that excessive to me.    Honestly, the US still has some of the lowest taxes of most of the developed world.    I used to know some Swedes that laughed when I told them about my dad complaining about his top tax bracket.    They said that rich Swedes would swim across the Atlantic to pay that rate.

The tax rate is not why anyone is complaining about this.

[beltim]

I understand the difficulties that it can cause. There are other aspects about moving to a different country that can be difficult as well such as not knowing the language, being looked at as an outsider, not being close to friends and family, the list goes on. But this seems to be a recurring theme on this forum, no one forced you to make these decisions. If you didn't want to deal with these matters, then you shouldn't have moved abroad. If you have never been to the US and have no ties then just give up citizenship. If you chose to leave for whatever reason and want to keep ties with the US, live with your choice. If it is impossible (or very difficult) to open a bank account in a country, and opening a bank account is important to you, then maybe don't go to that country?

Or, some of us want to work to make things better (which isn't hard, because in this case, they used to be).

[expatartist]

These are all quite recent laws, and don't apply if you're earning a few tens of thousands of $ per year in Asia like JohninTaiwan and I do (though if saving a few tens of thousands, it will eventually). Once you start building a stache it becomes a real problem. There is a real dilemma for Americans who are trying to invest abroad.

And just because the US government suddenly starts reaching its hands into foreign banks and making it difficult for US citizens to open bank accounts abroad -- something no other nation does with its citizens -- doesn't mean I should just suck it up and smile because the government says so.

Additionally, it looks like it can be a really expensive endeavor to get rid of a US passport, because you've got to pay taxes years in advance. Or so commentators on the article are saying. It's something I've got to look into.

[Ambergris]

What's the tax limit for income earned outside the country?   Isn't it north of $110,000, and then you're only paying on the money in excess of that number?...

You also get a tax credit for foreign taxes paid on anything over that.  In most of the developed world you will pay $0 US taxes.  But as others have said, that's not really the issue.  It's about the invasion of privacy and the inability to function financially in a foreign country because you can't open a freaking bank account.

[expatartist]

I hope you don't see this as hijacking this thread, but it's related - I've asked for advice for our investment strategy in our 'permanent expat' situation, and received a response about putting our investments in a trust in a 'friendly jurisdiction' but we are nowhere near the minimum amounts for a trust: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/good-investments-for-permanent-expats-(one-uk-one-us-citizen)/ but not sure how feasible this is with these international tax and banking laws.

Currently I have:
* A bank account in Hong Kong, which holds my (small) emergency fund of 2 months expenses. Since we no longer live in HK, any further banking options are very limited there
* Several bank accounts in mainland China, one of which holds a tiny emergency fund (1 month expenses)
* A paid-for townhouse in Sicily which is rented to tourists
* A purchase-in-progress of a small flat which will be paid for by the end of 2014, and will be rented to tourists

I don't have:
* Bank accounts or credit cards in the US. When I visit the US in 2016 (at the end of my next contract, ticket employer-paid) I'll open a joint bank acct with a family member

What I'd like to do:
* Purchase more flats (probably 1 per year) in the Mediterranean region while we're in Mainland China for next 2 years and finish paying off student loans [mine] and credit card [his].
* Long-term is the big question - I'd hope for less than 50% exposure to real estate for my retirement portfolio, so would like to invest in index funds.

US expats, what do/would you do? Do you invest partially in US index funds while living overseas? Or is this even possible?
When you're talking several hundred $K in investments rather than a few thousand here and there, the higher fees in the accounts for US citizens really add up over time!

NB: Me giving up my US passport isn't an option for probably 15 years (we want to be FI before moving to the UK, and it takes 6 years to become naturalized there) so it's not like I can just surrender my passport at the Beijing consulate whenever I feel like it.

Thanks and I hope this makes some sense.

Edited for spelling

[johnintaiwan]

I have a bank account in the us and a brokerage account with them. I just wire my money back (about $20 us each time) and then just buy shares online as I would if I lived in the US. I don't believe you can use any IRA products because that money has to come from money earned in the us. At least that is what I have come to understand.

[cbgg]

As a British person applying for citizenship, who may or may not return to the UK in retirement, I actually don't find this too worrying.

If you don't plan to leave the USA, this law doesn't effect you at all.  The UK deals with departure tax in a sane manner (like all countries except the USA).  So you are right - you have nothing to worry about.

I'm a Canadian married to an American and I'll get my GreenCard and move to the USA in a few months.  If my husband and I ever decide to move to Canada (which we would like to do for some portion of time), this is going to be a royal pain in the ass for us.  In Canada it's likely that we won't owe any taxes, but here are the downsides:
 - we cannot (or, will have a lot of trouble) take advantage of certain tax advantaged accounts because the USA won't recognize their status
 - we will likely end up paying tax professionals a lot of money since our taxes will become excessively complicated.  Without these stupid US inflicted complexities we would have easily managed on our own.
 - we have to live in a world of grey area where we are constantly trying to make judgement calls about appropriate treatment of our taxes because there are not straightforward rules to deal with straightforward situations. 
 - There is no harmonization of State and Federal rules, so sometimes even when the Feds have a treaty it only applies to that tax return, not to the one of the state where you are living.

So yeah.  The way that the IRS handles taxes is in many ways a case of American Exceptionalism at it's worst.

[expatartist]

@JohninTaiwan Thanks for sharing your strategy - very helpful.

[Ambergris]

As a British person applying for citizenship, who may or may not return to the UK in retirement, I actually don't find this too worrying.

If you don't plan to leave the USA, this law doesn't effect you at all.  The UK deals with departure tax in a sane manner (like all countries except the USA).  So you are right - you have nothing to worry about.

I'm a Canadian married to an American and I'll get my GreenCard and move to the USA in a few months.  If my husband and I ever decide to move to Canada (which we would like to do for some portion of time), this is going to be a royal pain in the ass for us.  In Canada it's likely that we won't owe any taxes, but here are the downsides:
 - we cannot (or, will have a lot of trouble) take advantage of certain tax advantaged accounts because the USA won't recognize their status
 - we will likely end up paying tax professionals a lot of money since our taxes will become excessively complicated.  Without these stupid US inflicted complexities we would have easily managed on our own.
 - we have to live in a world of grey area where we are constantly trying to make judgement calls about appropriate treatment of our taxes because there are not straightforward rules to deal with straightforward situations. 
 - There is no harmonization of State and Federal rules, so sometimes even when the Feds have a treaty it only applies to that tax return, not to the one of the state where you are living.

So yeah.  The way that the IRS handles taxes is in many ways a case of American Exceptionalism at it's worst.

I'm sorry this looks like such a mess for you.  The only reason I brought up my situation in the first place is that while I'm in the US now, returning to the UK is a real option for me after FI, and I'm making my immigration plans with a view to at least making this possible.  I think there are a few folks here in a similar situation, so I wanted to give an assessment in case anyone needed it.  The title of the the thread is "some Americans giving up citizenship due to tax laws".  This seems strange to me, because in many cases leaving the US actually overall gets easier in tax terms with US citizenship rather than a green card (for example, departure tax is not payable unless you give up citizenship or your green card) and US retirement accounts are not taxable in the UK (and some other countries) due to a tax treaty.  Also, at low incomes, US tax abroad for US ex-pats is essentially non-existent.  This is why it looks like most mustachian US citizens moving from the US to the UK (or to other countries with a tax and FATCA treaty) with US retirement accounts would be OK.

I totally recognize that things are not as smooth in all of these countries for those (like the guy living in Switzerland) who of necessity has a high income, or who because of FATCA can't get a bank account.  Or trying to move the other way around, like you, who are trying to deal with the Canada to US, federal vs. state, plus greencard plus departure tax plus Canadian assets mess.  The last thing I intended was to make light of someone's difficult situation.