Solved and Unresolved Holiday Materialisms: A Mutual Aid Thread

[roomtempmayo]

I like the holidays, and I also loathe the holidays.  Mostly, I loathe the in-your-face 24/7 materialism, and the comparisons to friends and family that often come from hosting and being hosted in personal space.

We could probably use a thread from getting things off our chest, showing how we may have resolved some issues, and maybe getting some help thinking through ways to enact our anti-materialist values.  Feel free to contribute.

For us, so far:

Solved: Black Friday and everything that goes with it.  Years ago we started going out and cutting a Christmas tree on the day after Thanksgiving.  The permit for the county forest costs $5, and we have a great time being nowhere in the vicinity of a store.

Unresolved: Santa.  We have a two year old, and soon she's going to catch wind of presents and Santa.  How do parents teach their kids that those aren't our values without being grinches?

Unresolved: We have a great everyday house, but not a good hosting house.  It meets our needs 98% of the time very well.  But hospitality is also one of our values, and it's not a good place to host overnight guests.  Yes, we can rent hotel rooms or an AirBnB, but that's not the same as welcoming someone into your home.  How do you reconcile the tension between efficiency in how you use your resources, and also having enough extra space to welcome people at the holidays?

What do you have?  Feel free to introduce your own solved/unresolved holiday materialism problems below.

[GuitarStv]

If you want to host people at your home, you need a home big enough to host people.  Typically this takes the form of a spare room.  There are usually plenty of ways to use the spare room when it's not hosting guests - anything from a kids playroom, office, workout area, storage, craft area, sewing room, whatever.  Given the flexibility of what you can do with a spare room, the efficiency hit is usually not viewed as being significant.

Alternative would maybe be to rent a small place like a cottage somewhere and host the people there - you can sell that as a kind of special getaway thing.  In a pinch (in the summer) you could make things work by getting the kids to camp in a tent while the adults take their room or something, but that's a harder sell in the winter.

[midweststache]

Unresolved: Santa.  We have a two year old, and soon she's going to catch wind of presents and Santa.  How do parents teach their kids that those aren't our values without being grinches?

We've never been a Santa house. We do a small Christmas - something you want / need / wear / ready + stocking of fun toothbrush, new water bottles, fresh drawing pad, candy, etc. So there's not pressure to have gifts "from Santa" under our tree.

We do talk with our kiddos about how Santa is an idea - he helps people remember to be joyful, giving, thoughtful, cheerful and generous. We live in a fairly diverse area - lots of Hanukkah celebrations, some limited solstice celebrations, etc. - so we've been having a lot of "good for them, not for us" conversations about different ways to celebrate. It's OK to talk about Santa as an idea/concept that SOME people use to celebrate the season, but the idea that everyone is visited by Santa just isn't true. Plug here for the local library, which may have books on the ways different people celebrate the end-of-the-year holiday season.

Our youngest is five and still talks about Santa because, well, cultural inundation, but our household conversations haven't changed: Santa is an idea that encourages us to celebrate the holiday spirit, but gifts come from family (not some dude in a goofy suit breaking and entering).

[roomtempmayo]

@GuitarStv Yeah, the house size is a tough nut for us to crack. 

But the costs of upsizing wouldn't be de minimus for us.  Our current house is 1300 sqft and 2.5 bedrooms.  Staying in our current location and buying something that's, say, 4 beds and 2000+ sqft would be at least an additional 100k, probably more like 150k.  Tag on an extra 4% to our mortgage rate, plus an additional $1000-1500/year in property taxes, and enough space to comfortably host people could run $10k or more a year.

Since we value $10k/year more than we value hosting a couple times a year, we've thus far stayed put and just chaffed at the size of our house during the holidays.

[jrhampt]

@GuitarStv Yeah, the house size is a tough nut for us to crack. 

But the costs of upsizing wouldn't be de minimus for us.  Our current house is 1300 sqft and 2.5 bedrooms.  Staying in our current location and buying something that's, say, 4 beds and 2000+ sqft would be at least an additional 100k, probably more like 150k.  Tag on an extra 4% to our mortgage rate, plus an additional $1000-1500/year in property taxes, and enough space to comfortably host people could run $10k or more a year.

Since we value $10k/year more than we value hosting a couple times a year, we've thus far stayed put and just chaffed at the size of our house during the holidays.

We also have a house that size.  It's not big enough for a full family Christmas, so we either host partial family gatherings (we can fit a max of 4 extra people in our currrent house), have people visit at other times of the year when we can have more one on one time, or if we really need to host more, we get a hotel or airbnb for the spillover.  It's not ideal, but it's WAY less expensive that getting a bigger house that we won't use most of the year.

[Cranky]

I grew up in the classic postwar small suburban house - probably 1000 sq ft all told, maybe less. 3 small bedrooms. No basement. My parents had people over ALL the time. Bridge club, poker night, a big NYE party. Coming to Florida on vacation? Of course you’ll stay with us!

There was a pull out couch. Kids got sleeping bags. In fact, we had a college student live with us for several years.

So, I kinda think that is just a decision you make.

And so is the rest really. Do the holiday stuff you like, and ignore the rest.

[mistymoney]

Unresolved: Santa.  We have a two year old, and soon she's going to catch wind of presents and Santa.  How do parents teach their kids that those aren't our values without being grinches?

Good luck on this! I tried to tell DS at 2 yr 9 month that santa was a story and mommy did the presents. He flat out refused to believe me. Highly resistent and started getting upset. I don't knwo where he absorbed the santa info so strongly, TV shows maybe? So I just left it alone and both kids just knew whenever they knew. But even after childhood in 20's, DD insisted that presents appear only on xmas eve after they go to bed. But at least now in their 20s I'm pretty sure they know mommy is santa.

[Ladychips]

I think Cranky is right on. I host all the holiday dinners at my house.  On Easter we have 30 plus...and it is TIGHT. Last year when setting up the tables, my husband was getting upset/frustrated because of the limited space. I told him that 1) my grandma did it in a smaller house and my great grandma did it in a smaller house with more people and 2) I have never heard anyone complain OR decide not to come because of the size of our house (or any other reason!).

As for overnight guests, I have a sewing room where all of my tables are foldable.  If someone comes, I fold everything up to make room for an air mattress. Just don't open the closet! Again, my great grandma lived in a one bedroom house and had 8 kids. Grandpa got the bedroom. Everyone else made do. Lots to be said for togetherness!!

As for Santa, I don't know. For all of my childhood we opened presents on Christmas eve (Christmas day was for food and play). I have no idea what we thought about Santa.  It just wasn't a thing.

[Cranky]

Oh, and my grandparents lived in a 1 bedroom duplex. That kitchen/dining area was small, and they had the big family Thanksgiving dinner there every year.

I never was big on Santa and my kids all were believers when they were little, so I think kids just like magic. We did 3 gifts and a stocking and they seemed pretty thrilled.

[Sailor Sam]

@roomtempmayo, I couldn’t tell from your original post if you’re asking how to keep the 2.y.o from “Santa as a concept of excess,” or if you won’t be giving presents at all. 

If it’s the first, then I’ve got anecdata. My mum was deeply traumatized to learn Santa wasn’t real at 5 years-old, and vowed to do better. She told us right from the start Santa wasn’t real, but was a fun thing to pretend. If you like that tack, you can go a step further, and say what turned you off from Santa (it’s fun to pretend, but some people take it too far.)

No presents on Christmas seems like a tough road for a kid, but they’re probably a way to spin it. From my nephling-based experience, kids don’t really understand wtf Christmas is until 4 or 5 years old.

[roomtempmayo]

@Sailor Sam It's the excess that's the problem.  Santa, presents, want, want, want, stuff, stuff, stuff.  We'll do presents, we're just thinking of how to avoid making them the center of her holiday.

[charis]

I have to say that we have a smallish house and still host up to 4 overnight and fully committed to Santa (due to my own nostalgia I'll confess), have some almost teenagers, and this hasn't been an issue.  First, little kids are always obsessed with opening presents/getting presents.  It's part of their little kid humanness.  Yes, you could not give them presents to (unsuccessfully) attempt to combat this, but you'll both be miserable.  You can certainly avoid the Santa ritual to probably no ill effect, that's your choice.  With my kids, we dealt with materialism by being very intentional on limiting the number of gifts, putting the main focus on giving, and reenforcing being grateful for any gift received. Santa brought only 2-3 gifts in our house, plus the stocking stuffers.  As parents we gave 2-3 more.  Some of the extended family is big on gifts, but we found that our influence had a greater impact.

It's like anything else about being a parent.  You aren't going to instill a value during one holiday season, it's a process that takes time and how they act about gifts at a younger age doesn't last (in my experience).

[Freedomin5]

DD believed in Santa all the way until age 8 when she started to cotton on to the idea that maybe Santa didn't exist.

We tempered the idea that Santa meant materialism by also reading her the story of St. Nicholas (Sinterklaas), which is where the idea of Santa originates, and talked about how some children don't get presents because their families are poor. Not only do they not have presents, they often don't have daily necessities. We talk about giving gifts to others and participate in Operation Christmas Child and have her help us select an organization to make a large donation every Christmas. We focus more on the generosity aspect of Santa and gift giving rather than gift receiving.

Throughout the rest of the year, we focus on buying only what we need. Everything we buy is a thoughtful purchase, even toys, and we focus on buying secondhand as much as possible.

It seems to have worked. From age 5 onwards, she wrote a letter to Santa asking him for what she wanted for Christmas. At age 7, she looked around the house, realized she had everything she needed, and wrote in her letter to Santa, "You don't need to bring me anything this year. Please take the toys you were going to give to me and give them to children who don't have any toys. PS: You can still come to my house for cookies in case the poor children don't have money to give you cookies."

The next year, she stopped writing letters to Santa or believing in Santa. She told us she thought maybe Santa wasn't real. We confirmed it and said it was just a fun tradition/myth.

In terms of presents, we only do one present from parents (both of us). DD sometimes gets presents from her friends. So there's never more than a handful of presents under the tree.

[englishteacheralex]

Nice idea to teach your kids about generosity during the holidays, but please reconsider Operation Christmas Child. I work at a Christian school and am deeply religious, but I hate the message OCC sends about poverty--that it is somehow a problem of materialism and if we just send them cheap toys from halfway around the world that will make their Christmas so much nicer.

My kids beg me to participate in OCC every year and we're on our third year of my explaining yet again that it makes no sense for us to send a box of random toys to an unknown country to help faceless, nameless "poor children who don't have toys". Instead, I participate in a couple of local charity programs where the need is clearly defined and culturally understood to us, as well as participating in Compassion International, where our giving is just money (way more efficient) and local churches fulfill the needs of the sponsored children in a culturally appropriate way.

Here's just one of the many articles I've found about the deeply problematic nature of OCC:
https://trainingleadersinternational.org/articles/618/why-i-wont-be-filling-a-shoebox-this-christmas

[Freedomin5]

Nice idea to teach your kids about generosity during the holidays, but please reconsider Operation Christmas Child. I work at a Christian school and am deeply religious, but I hate the message OCC sends about poverty--that it is somehow a problem of materialism and if we just send them cheap toys from halfway around the world that will make their Christmas so much nicer.

My kids beg me to participate in OCC every year and we're on our third year of my explaining yet again that it makes no sense for us to send a box of random toys to an unknown country to help faceless, nameless "poor children who don't have toys". Instead, I participate in a couple of local charity programs where the need is clearly defined and culturally understood to us, as well as participating in Compassion International, where our giving is just money (way more efficient) and local churches fulfill the needs of the sponsored children in a culturally appropriate way.

Here's just one of the many articles I've found about the deeply problematic nature of OCC:
https://trainingleadersinternational.org/articles/618/why-i-wont-be-filling-a-shoebox-this-christmas

We do Operation Christmas Child, but don't give junky toys. We have a discussion on what kids are most likely to need, and then select most of the things from the Personal Care, School Supplies, and Clothing & Accessories sections, along with maybe one or two things from the Games & Activities sections on their Shoebox Gift Suggestions List. We also give money to other organizations, because I agree that it's way more efficient that way. For a little kid though, Operation Christmas Child is a nice, tangible way to get them in the habit of giving in a way that is salient to them.

[FireLane]

But the costs of upsizing wouldn't be de minimus for us.  Our current house is 1300 sqft and 2.5 bedrooms.  Staying in our current location and buying something that's, say, 4 beds and 2000+ sqft would be at least an additional 100k, probably more like 150k.  Tag on an extra 4% to our mortgage rate, plus an additional $1000-1500/year in property taxes, and enough space to comfortably host people could run $10k or more a year.

Since we value $10k/year more than we value hosting a couple times a year, we've thus far stayed put and just chaffed at the size of our house during the holidays.

I have this same issue. My condo is around 800 square feet, with two bedrooms and one room that I use as a combination office/breakfast nook. In a pinch, I can move my computer out and expand the pull-out table to transform it into a small dining room, but it's never been suitable for big parties or formal entertaining (although it's plenty of space for my three-person family).

I'd have paid 25% more for a 25% bigger home, but that option doesn't exist in my neighborhood. There are other condos like mine, and there are detached single-family homes that start at a million dollars. If I'd bought one of those, I'd have had to work another 20 years. Not a good tradeoff, in my opinion.

My solution is, when we want to throw a holiday party, we do it at my parents' or my in-laws' places. They have big, baby-boomer-era suburban homes that they're happy to let us use. Considering we rarely entertain more than once or twice a year, it works just fine.

[BeanCounter]

Mom of teens who no longer believe in Santa.
I struggled too with what to do about Santa when my kids were born. I think Santa has become so overblown, even more so than when I was a kid in the 1980s. But it’s an important tradition for my DH so we made a compromise. Santa does three gifts and a stocking. Mom and dad give one practical gift (shoes, jammies, sweatshirt) and a book. That seems to have been enough to open but not such excess. We also never visited Santa at the mall, had an elf on the shelf, wrote letters about what you want or honestly even talked much about it at all. They pick so much up at school and we tried to combat the idea that 1) you’ll get anything and everything you ask for and 2) you have to be “good” for Santa to visit. We did tell the story of St Nickolas because we are Catholic and that made the transition when the no longer believed easier. It explains the story of why we “play Santa”.
If I had it to do over again I would have Santa fill the stockings and mom and dad give the three gifts under the tree. You have to think about the fact that the things they want/need get much more expensive as they get older ($300 baseball glove for example) and be considerate of the climate of the school they will attend- are the other kids getting iPhones and Xboxes for Christmas or are there some kids who maybe don’t get anything? It’s hard to explain how Santa could be so unfair.
TL/DR- limit the number of gifts from year 1 and don’t put much emphasis on the “Santa” part of Christmas

[Cranky]

One thing we did was to emphasize the fun of giving things - I took each kid shopping to buy (or make) a little gift for her sisters and her dad, and they took it very seriously and had an awesome time. We also did Angel Tree through our church, where the gifts were to kids who had a parent in prison and often this would be the only gift that they got.

All three of them have grown up to be excellent gift givers.

[lhamo]

One reason I am remodeling my 1300 sq ft house is to add a second bathroom so that continuing to host my kids/their partners for holidays is a bit easier.  The three bedrooms are not huge, but large enough that two of them will have queen beds and one will have stacked twin mattresses so I can sleep 6 people easily -- more if I add some blow up mattresses for future grandkids.  Dining room is big enough that I can seat 8 at my extendable table, plus I could put a couple of card tables in the living room.

But if your house REALLY cant fit larger groups of people, especially overnight, what about putting the word out fairly early on that you are staying in town for the holidays and see if anybody would let you put family/friends up in their house in exchange for pet or plant sitting, keeping an eye on mail, etc.  Lots of people travel themselves during the holidays and if you can plan in advance it shouldn't be too hard to find people who would welcome an extra eye on their place during a period when break ins and inclement weather are both quite common.

[kanga1622]

We never did Santa with our kids. We were very clear that he was a story and a sense of kindness/giving. By the time they were 2 or 3 we would pick a card off the angel tree and they would help us shop. Picking for kids their age/sex was a reminder that others in our community are not as fortunate.

We also limited the gifts they received from us. We started with 4: something you want, something you need, something to wear, and something to read. As they got older we moved to: something you want, something you wear, something you need, and something to share. Eventually we moved to 3 individual gifts and 1 shared gift. Even as teen/pre-teen they know not to have crazy expectations because we do have a budget but they are appreciative of the new bathrobe, slippers, books, and board games.

[midweststache]

We never did Santa with our kids. We were very clear that he was a story and a sense of kindness/giving. By the time they were 2 or 3 we would pick a card off the angel tree and they would help us shop. Picking for kids their age/sex was a reminder that others in our community are not as fortunate.

We also limited the gifts they received from us. We started with 4: something you want, something you need, something to wear, and something to read. As they got older we moved to: something you want, something you wear, something you need, and something to share. Eventually we moved to 3 individual gifts and 1 shared gift. Even as teen/pre-teen they know not to have crazy expectations because we do have a budget but they are appreciative of the new bathrobe, slippers, books, and board games.

Oh, I like the adaptation of this for aging kids - big ticket items they'd both get use out of, especially as they develop their own reading tastes and have more independent access to school libraries, bookstores, etc...

[jeninco]

Our kids are older now, but my suggestion is to develop your own family tradition(s) that are consistent with your values.  We took our kids to the backcountry “huts” in Colorado for Christmas every year. (Quotes because they are actually lovely chalets). We towed them in when they were small, then they walked partway but skied out, then they could ski both ways, then they could carry more stuff…  Only a few small/lightweight gifts could come in, but the annual maple sugar candy became a tradition too, as did the Santa Lucia rolls baked in a wood stove on Christmas morning.

It meant we had our own tradition to look forward to, rather than just not doing the thing everyone else was. And it was a conscious decision to just step out of the absurd materialism of the season around us.

[Ladychips]

But if your house REALLY cant fit larger groups of people, especially overnight, what about putting the word out fairly early on that you are staying in town for the holidays and see if anybody would let you put family/friends up in their house in exchange for pet or plant sitting, keeping an eye on mail, etc.  Lots of people travel themselves during the holidays and if you can plan in advance it shouldn't be too hard to find people who would welcome an extra eye on their place during a period when break ins and inclement weather are both quite common.

What an excellent idea!!

[K_in_the_kitchen]

I also grew up in a small postwar house, 1000 square feet, 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, a living room, small kitchen, and small dining area off the kitchen that wasn’t exactly a formal dining room but also wasn’t an eat in kitchen.  My parents hosted huge Christmas breakfasts and huge Thanksgiving meals.  When it was time to eat a table went up in any bedroom that had space, along with the living room.  In terms of people sleeping at our house, we 4 kids would get put in one room (2 in the bunk beds, 2 on the floor) and the other kid bedroom had guests (in the bunk beds and on the floor), plus there was a pullout sofa bed.  One time my uncle needed to stop at our house with his youth group and our entire floor was littered with teenagers in sleeping bags, even in the hall — there were 20 of them and they just slept wherever we could find room.

I know standards have changed, and I feel it too, in my 1600 square foot house with 3 bedrooms, no family room, and a dining room that seats 8 not quite comfortably and 10 if we squeeze in.  These days people think they need a guest room with a en suite bathroom or they are bad hosts.  But there is always a way to find room, and there’s something to be said for offering hospitality despite what you see as your shortcomings.  Earlier this year I cleared out of my craft room (one of the bedrooms) for 3 weeks so my nephew and his partner would have a place to stay while visiting from Europe.  We made a pallet bed on the floor, which was convenient when they wanted to sleep a night at the beach and rented a Dodge Caravan so they could put the pallet bed right in the van.  No, they didn’t have a real bed.  No, they didn’t have their own bathroom.  Yes, I occasionally had to go in there to get something.  It was fine.

It’s true, it would be hard for us to host a large group of adults overnight.  Depending on how many sleep in a bed, I can put 2-3 in beds, maybe even 5 if I ask my oldest to sleep on the couch.  I can cram in more if they are able to sleep in the floor.  But I’m also FI at this point, and can pay for a hotel as a last resort.

We did Santa, we just didn’t make Santa the main player.  Santa filled stockings and gave one gift, and it wasn’t the major gift.

We also don’t do Operation Christmas Child.  I agree with those who suggest that toys aren’t the answer to childhood poverty.  A toy isn’t much help in the face of extreme hunger.  We also don’t like the way it evangelizes (“Sending the Gospel to the ends of the earth”) or the fact that it sets up Americans as rescuers.

[aloevera1]

What?? Are you saying Santa isn't real??? Damn, no warnings on this thread T_T

[iris lily]

Solved:Our close friend who thrived on The Holidays which included crap tons of useless gifts to us, moved across the country.

She was a good friend and very generous, but no matter how many times I asked for little to no gifts, she didn't pay attention because she is one of those people for whom presents under the tree and the ritual of wrapping are EVERYTHING. She did not expect reciprocity, which was lovely, but…

The worst year, the one where I counted gifts, saw DH and I come home with 12 gifts each, a total of 24. Only about 25% were something we used, the rest were chucked out. It was a 2.5 hour ordeal sitting in her living room with 5 adults unwrapping each gift one-by-one with each gift passed around for inspection and exclamation. I dreaded this annual ritual, but this was the highlight of her year so I participated as a supportive friend.

The second-to-worst year was one of the last ones, when she had pared down the pile ‘o crap in gifts. But there was a gift for me that I could tell was the “big” gift, you know, the one that was the highlight of the pile. It was a set of small flower vases. I do floral design, sometimes competitively.  These vases were completely useless for my purposes because  they had super narrow necks. I could jam only one stem of a thin plant into it. These vases were made for display without plant material.

But the Really Bad Thing was that one of them was broken. My heart sank when I opened the box because I knew exactly what would happen: she would insist on re-ordering the gift because god forbid I not get my special gift.

Of course I protested but didnt expect her to listen to me and she didnt. I later received the set of vases. I used one in a floral competition, snapped a photo and sent to my gifting friend. Got last place (because no real floral material could fit into the vase for a true design) and then I brought it home and disposed of it as I had the other vases in the set.

TTLDR: My friend who over gifted moved across the country and no more piles ‘o crap come my way.

[iris lily]

@Sailor Sam It's the excess that's the problem.  Santa, presents, want, want, want, stuff, stuff, stuff.  We'll do presents, we're just thinking of how to avoid making them the center of her holiday.

Like someone said above, start the tradition of gifting in your family:

* Something they want
* Something they need
* Somethig to wear
* Something to read

If I had kids, that’s the path I would take.

[midweststache]

@Sailor Sam It's the excess that's the problem.  Santa, presents, want, want, want, stuff, stuff, stuff.  We'll do presents, we're just thinking of how to avoid making them the center of her holiday.

Like someone said above, start the tradition of fifting in your family:

* Something they want
* Something they need
* Somethig to wear
* Something to read

If I had kids, that’s the path I would take.

Our kids have never known anything different, so they don't have expectations of "big Christmas".

We don't even wrap gifts, we just stick them in labeled baskets that I got clearance at Target. Usually we take about 10 minutes to unload/play with stocking stuff and look at / appreciate gifts, and then we load up on cinnamon roles, coffee for the adults and hot chocolate for the KIDDOs, and watch a Christmas movie. (Usually Muppet Christmas Carol or The Grinch - any version but the Jim Carrey one.)

We do the same thing for birthdays - want, need, wear, read - but because we wrap those gifts it comes across as a "bigger deal". YMMV

[Ron Scott]

Some people are able to move beyond their shoulds and jealousies. Be like them—and do it in a non-judgmental way. The need to vent about the materialism or whatever others live with says more about you than the others.

To each his own already…

[roomtempmayo]

She was a good friend and very generous, but no matter how many times I asked for little to no gifts, she didn't pay attention because she is one of those people for whom presents under the tree and the ritual of wrapping are EVERYTHING. She did not expect reciprocity, which was lovely, but…

The worst year, the one where I counted gifts, saw DH and I come home with 12 gifts each, a total of 24. Only about 25% were something we used, the rest were chucked out. It was a 2.5 hour ordeal sitting in her living room with 5 adults unwrapping each gift one-by-one with each gift passed around for inspection and exclamation. I dreaded this annual ritual, but this was the highlight of her year so I participated as a supportive friend.

I recalled this post yesterday during the first of three or four obligatory family Christmases.

This one is on my wife's side, with her dad, who is divorced from her mom and remarried.  There's a whole backstory that involves infidelity here, so it's pretty easy to read the compensation onto their behavior.

My father-in-law's wife is an obscene overgifter.  At one point during gift opening I was holding our two year old who was looking at her first gift, and I told people to just wait with the packages for her until she was ready to move on.  People started throwing packages at me and yelling that they needed to be opened.  It was just off the wall.  Easily 20 packages were addressed to our daughter, none of which were needed or requested.  Eventually my wife and I opened some before people got bored with it.  We brought several home still wrapped.

Her family is very much not receptive to feedback, or making changes.  This is what they want from Christmas.

[iris lily]

My sympathies.

[JupiterGreen]

Appreciate all the replies to this thread. Another idea for short term lodging in the the small house dilemma is one or two of those 3 panel folding screens (to save money you could make them). Use them anywhere in the house to carve out a little sleeping space for a blowup bed/cot or two. I stayed at a place where that was the solution and it felt surprisingly private and cozy.

[obstinate]

For my part, I'm afraid that I went ahead and got the kids a crap ton of presents. It's hard to predict what will stick with my boys, especially the older one (he has a bit of neurodivergence and has trouble formulating and articulating his own desires). We'll return or eBay whatever he ends up not using. Wifey is getting a night out at a fancy restaurant and tickets to a musical.

I've made my peace with it. We are luckily in a spot where even the absurd amount we spent on Christmas presents doesn't really move the needle on our savings or overall spending. If my sons knew their own hearts better naturally we'd just get them exactly what they want and would enjoy, but they don't, so we use the shotgun approach instead.

At this point I'm more focused on giving them things to do that aren't screens. If that requires buying a lot of toys then so be it.

(Several items were bought used off of eBay. Did I mention that I love eBay? I love eBay.)

[Wintergreen78]

My mom has her own blow-up mattress she has always brought with her when she visits. I find it really comfortable to sleep on. If you are hosting another family in a 2-bedroom house, all the kids kids get one bedroom, adult guests get another bedroom, then you/partner can use inflatable mattress(es) in a corner of the living room.

We had 4 adults and 2 kids at my 2 bedroom/1200 square foot place for Thanksgiving. It worked fine. A couple extra kids would have worked, and it could still be done in a slightly smaller place. It all depends on people’s expectations and attitudes.

Also - if you really want to host a big family thing and it really won’t work to fit everyone, this is the best use case for renting a house for the holiday.. It would be silly to buy a bigger house for one or two events per year.

[Drink Coffee And Stack Money]

Lot's of interesting responses.

While we are very frugal 11 months of the year, we are 1,000% non-mustachian when it comes to Christmas giving (both to charities and family/friends), and we love it. Our house looks like a Christmas store threw up in it, and we definitely promote the idea of Santa Claus in our house. The world can be a cruel and shitty place at times so IMO let the kids have some magic while they're young.

[Ron Scott]

We have a two year old, and soon she's going to catch wind of presents and Santa.  How do parents teach their kids that those aren't our values without being grinches?

Kids learn from both their parents and “the village”. When there is a difference in values between the 2, kids will develop their own opinions and their own set of values as they grow up.

I think it is always important to present your values and the rationale for them. In fact, it’s an obligation.

What is harder to accomplish with toddlers is doing so in a way doesn’t overly discredit others’ values—in a way that the kid would interpret as antagonistic, or a matter of family loyalty.

If the goal is to raise children to think for themselves, it helps if they choose alternatives and feel comfortable with their choices.