Author Topic: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?  (Read 9376 times)

LearningMustachian72

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Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« on: April 25, 2022, 09:06:08 PM »
Hey, we are putting hardwood floor in roughly 700 sq/ft in our home.  I am leaning hardwood as I like the aesthetic and have 2 dogs/young kids and want the ability to sand it multiple times to remove claw marks, etc.

Has anyone laid solid hardwood, engineered or laminate recently? Happy with what you decided on?

Lastly, who is everyone ordering their flooring from? Ordered samples from Lumber Liquidators and Carlisle but weren’t thrilled with either. Saw one at a local store we like.

Thanks in advance!

FINate

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2022, 10:07:23 PM »
You should also consider Luxury Vinyl Plank (LVP). Much less expensive than wood, easy to install, durable, impervious to moisture. The cost per square foot to sand and refinish solid hardwood is around the same cost to install LVP. I've had all three types of flooring (solid hardwood, engineered, LVP) and I don't think I'd ever install anything but quality LVP at this point. We currently have solid hardwood (installed by previous owners) and it's fine but not that durable. We'll keep it because I don't care too much about it looking scratched or worn.

gooki

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2022, 10:31:44 PM »
Just don't do laminate.

vand

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2022, 05:39:05 AM »
People can get really picky about these things, but they're all good options imo.

A good laminate will more than do the job if you are looking for something that provides decent VFM. LVP is a popular mid range option, and it's easy to work with and cut/snap with a penknife.

IMO you should match the floor material with the house - entry level/apartment go for laminate. Family home LVP. Period/fancy home go for real wood.

uniwelder

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2022, 06:03:25 AM »
I'm a big fan of solid stranded bamboo flooring.  This is not the same as vertical or horizontal oriented bamboo that most people are familiar with.

It looks like hardwood without the visible knuckles of bamboo, comes prefinished, cost me $2.00-2.80 per sq ft but good luck finding that price now, twice as hard as oak, hasn't scratched at all (only one year living here so far) with two big dogs, can be refinished but don't expect to need to.  I've put in two different houses so far as a traditional tongue and groove nail down installation.  The sites I purchased from were builddirect.com and flooranddecor.com, just searching around to see who had the lowest price.  Samples from each were comparable to Cali Bamboo samples in hardness and scratch resistance.

There was a another thread a while back about various flooring options--- https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/do-it-yourself-forum!/general-discussion-and-questions-about-flooring/msg2921318/#msg2921318

BeanCounter

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2022, 06:08:06 AM »
We had site finished, solid hardwood installed in our entire first floor three years ago and I love it. We have a very classic home with lots of old inherited furniture so the classic look of solid hardwood made sense for us. It was expensive, and it's a PITA to have installed because you basically have to move out while the install, stain and seal it. But man it's gorgeous when it's finished. I love the idea idea of LVP, it would be great for pets and kids. I've seen some in the last year or so that I like, but when we did our floors all the choices seemed really "loud" for lack of a better word. More modern in design feeling than traditional hardwood.
So far the wear and tear of four people and a cat living on the floors in the kitchen hasn't been too extreme. We've had a couple scratches happen and we just apply a light bit of stain and it disappears. I'm really impressed with how it's holding up in the kitchen.

NotBadForADad

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2022, 06:10:22 AM »
Where is your house located and what is the current value.

As a Certified Flooring Installer, I wouldn't put hardwood flooring in if I had a dog/kids.

LVT/LVP is the way to go.

I just put in 750sf of glue down in my main living area and am currently putting down click lock LVP in my finished basement.

Hardwood floors require maintenance. Figure to spend $2500 every 5-7 years to refinish them. More so with dogs.

Fishindude

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2022, 07:00:24 AM »
Hard to beat real, solid hardwood floors.
The engineered hardwood floors are also pretty darned nice and will give the same look at a little less cost.

RainyDay

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2022, 08:03:12 AM »
You should also consider Luxury Vinyl Plank (LVP). Much less expensive than wood, easy to install, durable, impervious to moisture. The cost per square foot to sand and refinish solid hardwood is around the same cost to install LVP. I've had all three types of flooring (solid hardwood, engineered, LVP) and I don't think I'd ever install anything but quality LVP at this point. We currently have solid hardwood (installed by previous owners) and it's fine but not that durable. We'll keep it because I don't care too much about it looking scratched or worn.

+1 
We just installed LVP in our mud room and LOVE it.  The rest of the house has hardwood, and I have not been impressed.  One water leak and it's done.  Meanwhile, the LVP laughs at water and hard use.  It also comes in about 8000 patterns and styles.  We ordered it from Lowe's and my husband installed it. 

joemandadman189

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2022, 08:37:43 AM »
the hard wood floors in our home were redone before we bought back in 2018. they look horrible now, scratches all over, gaps developing between planks, when we redo the space they will be removed in favor of a engineered product

Just Joe

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2022, 08:40:15 AM »
We did LVP in a bath. DW installed it. She is a whiz with flooring. Looked wonderful. No grout lines (optional).

We put down real hardwood in a family room, hallway and dining room at a previous house. I installed it in the big room with a buddy and DW and I did the dining room and hallway. Turned out great too. TONS of work to do. There are some techniques that will need to be learned but YouTube can help with that.

In our current house we will put down vinyl in the kitchen and laundry room. We like tile in bathrooms but LVP is pretty nice too. Same in our basement rooms. Carpet in bedrooms. Wood in the family room.

We make those choices for easy cleaning as much as aesthetics.

LearningMustachian72

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2022, 08:57:31 AM »
Thanks so much for the input.

This will be in our upstairs hallway, 3 bedrooms, stairs and one living room.

We are getting rid of the carpet for easier cleaning/less allergens with dogs.  Scratches do not really bother us, we would just want to refinish when selling.  Have hardwood in other areas and dog scratches don’t bother us personally.

Our home is in the Midwest, worth roughly $465k to answer someone’s question.

It has a unique layout and a bit of a MCM vibe with views to multiple levels and MCM roof lines from front view.  That is why I am leaning solid hardwood as we want to add higher end materials throughout.  We plan to be in the house at least another 8-10 years.

I will definitely look into LVP after the input received here though.


sonofsven

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2022, 09:05:02 AM »
I've done all three, laminate is loud and clicky and feels fake, hardwood is my favorite but costs more, LVP, I've put in the last three new construction homes I built, and will be going in the current one under construction. Engineered hardwood I like the look, but it costs more than LVP, is not waterproof like LVP, so it doesn't have any real advantages besides aesthetics.
I run the LVP throughout the house, including the bathrooms, which I would never do with hardwood, or the other choices.
The plumber screwed up and flooded one bathroom on the last house. Pulled up the LVP, put a fan on the subfloor, the next day put the flooring back down-no problem.
I get the product that looks like one plank, not multiple smaller planks, as I think it looks better. It doesn't really look and feel like hardwood to me, but it does feel softer underfoot than laminate.
I try to put low maintenance items in my houses, and LVP fits the bill. 

Edited to add:  we have construction dogs on site and the LVP is pretty impervious to scratches.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 09:06:57 AM by sonofsven »

bmjohnson35

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2022, 09:05:23 AM »
I have experience with hardwood, engineered hardwood and laminate. I would not do hardwood or engineered hardwood again.  Hardwood is expensive and a PITA to install.  Both the hardwood and engineered hardwood scratch easier. Hardwood is glued, nailed or both. I don't like the permanence.

Quality laminate wears like steel, relatively inexpensive, easy to install and easily removed, if case you change your mind or need to. 

If I was installing flooring today, I would try quality luxury vinyl. It's waterproof, suppose to be easy to install, also supposed to be extremely wear resistant and still cheaper than hardwood. It's also easily removed.

I should note that all of my experience is with concrete floors. I haven't ever installed anything on a wood subfloor.

Sibley

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2022, 09:10:04 AM »
I see a lot of people dissing hardwood. When you use natural products, then you need to accommodate natural properties. If you're not willing to do that, then don't use natural products. Properly cared for, hardwood floors can last decades or even centuries, is a renewable resource, and doesn't require the manufacturing processes of other options.

Hardwood does not tolerate water well. Depending on the type of wood and how its finished, its resilience will vary, but still. Water should not be allowed to sit on the wood. This isn't new. If you can't keep water off the floor, then don't have that floor.

Wood, as a natural material, expands and contracts depending on the conditions. It moves. Which means, sometimes there's gaps between boards, sometimes there aren't. It's not, how do you avoid having gaps, its how do you accommodate the natural movement of the wood. Historically, cording was pounded into the floor between boards to close gaps, but still accommodate the movement. This cording would of course have to be removed and replaced periodically. Again, this isn't new. If you can't handle having gaps part of the year, then don't have that floor.

Wood will accumulate dings and dents if you don't treat it right. Good news is when that happens, you can hide them (to an extent), or sand it down and refinish it. There's nothing I can do about the chipped LVP in my kitchen, it's just chipped. But the wood floor? Yep, I could. However, there's a limit to how many times you can sand and refinish hardwood. And the process is incredibly messy and disruptive to the household. It's not something you want to plan to do regularly.

The modern styles really do not work for hardwood floors, and as a result you have a lot of problems with hardwood purely because people are breaking all the rules of how to have hardwood floors. You are not supposed to leave the entire floor uncovered. Historically, hard wood floors had carpets, rugs, mats, rushes, or other protective coverings. You only pulled them up for specific reasons. Day to day use the floors were covered up. Little kids were not supposed to be running around on uncovered floors. Same with dogs. If you choose to be unpractical with how you use hardwood floors, then you also get to deal with the consequences. However, don't complain about the problems you're having with hardwood because you aren't treating it properly.

OP, if you want hardwood, then with dogs and kids then you also need to commit to rugs covering the majority of the floor. However, since you don't seem set on hardwood, then just get LVP. It'll handle the abuse of kids and dogs much better.

Papa bear

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2022, 09:37:36 AM »
Installed just about every type of floor in residential spaces, both my own living and a ton of rentals.  I would not use laminate again, as the comparable lvp / LVT products are far superior now.

Just about everything new going in is lvt / lvp.  You’ll see it in new builds, remodels, flips, etc.   I think it’s going to be this generation’s “oh that house was definitely built between 2015-2030” look over time.   It is a quality, durable product that I use in bathrooms, basements, and have used in some rental main living spaces.

Far superior for looks and long term use is hardwood.  These aren’t 20 year floors, they are 100+ year floors.   I have houses built in the McKinley administration (yeah that old) where the hardwoods sanded and refinished with no problems.  Hardwoods will never go “out of style” and don’t look or feel like plastic.   I install them in all of the 1st floors of rental units (all above grade, over plywood subfloor).  And these things take a beating.  College campus kids are just about the worst thing you can have, with parties, wearing shoes with road salt, pets galore, etc. I’ve got hardwoods over 15 years old that still look really good.  I figure I can refinish after 25 years or so, and I’ll be over 70 the next time I have to think about them after that. 

Install for hardwood? Love it.  So much more satisfying than lock and click.  Lock and click is annoying for me.   Line up the piece, smash the nail gun, boom! Move on.  But for a new diy person, lock and click needs far less tools and knowledge and experience to install.

Engineered hardwood? I’ve never really seen anything less expensive than solid hardwood.  And I don’t think you should use it unless you have a specific case for it’s use.  For instance, an unconditioned space, or a winterized cottage where you need to worry about expansion.  Or if you want to go modern and use 6+” wide boards, you most likely need to go engineered. 

So for a roundup. Hardwoods are awesome! They take a beating! They will look good forever!  Lvp / LVT is in 2nd place, they look decent and they take a beating.   But I think they are going to be trendy and will fall out of favor from today’s peak level of excitement.  They are also really good in wet spaces, and for below or at grade.  Laminate is terrible.   

As for where to buy hardwood? Find local sawmills and lumber yards.   Start there and see what they offer.  You can find some phenomenal deals if you are flexible on wood species and width.   I know today’s prices are bonkers, but early pandemic, i was still finding 2 1/4” wide solid 3/4” unfinished hickory for under 3/sf.  You can always search big retailers, like LL, floor and decor, HD, Lowe’s, menards and look for deals or clearance. Their products are just fine too. 


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SunnyDays

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2022, 09:40:58 AM »
One thing no one has mentioned is off-gassing.  You're going to get that from both laminate and vinyl, as both contain all kinds of chemicals.

You can finish real hardwood floors with a water-based stain and sealer.  My parents did that with their hardwood from the 70's and it has held up pretty well, in spite of a dog and cats.  There are fine scratches on the surface, but really only noticeable if the light hits a certain way.  The colour has held up well too, with no obvious fading or yellowing, the latter being the problem with the original oil-based finish.  That was the first refinishing they got, probably 25 years ago now, and the guy said they had one more refinishing in them, then would have to be replaced.  They are pretty squeaky in spots though, in the winter especially when it's very dry in the house.

cool7hand

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2022, 09:44:46 AM »
I'm a big fan of solid stranded bamboo flooring.  This is not the same as vertical or horizontal oriented bamboo that most people are familiar with.

It looks like hardwood without the visible knuckles of bamboo, comes prefinished, cost me $2.00-2.80 per sq ft but good luck finding that price now, twice as hard as oak, hasn't scratched at all (only one year living here so far) with two big dogs, can be refinished but don't expect to need to.  I've put in two different houses so far as a traditional tongue and groove nail down installation.  The sites I purchased from were builddirect.com and flooranddecor.com, just searching around to see who had the lowest price.  Samples from each were comparable to Cali Bamboo samples in hardness and scratch resistance.

There was a another thread a while back about various flooring options--- https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/do-it-yourself-forum!/general-discussion-and-questions-about-flooring/msg2921318/#msg2921318

+1

Queen Frugal

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2022, 10:00:42 AM »
Thanks for the post because I am struggling to decide what to do about my own floor!  I bought a house with 120 year old heart pine floors that had been recently refinished but the floors aren't holding up 3 years later.  They  are pretty torn up by the dog claws.  In addition, whoever redid the floors filled the gaps with wood filler that cracked and it has caused sharp areas and splintering all over the place.  Everyone in my house has been to the doctor to remove deep splinters from the floors.  I have been trying to decide whether to try refinishing and saving the hardwood or go with a LVP product - Lifeproof from Home Depot in particular, which is cheap, durable, readily available, and easy to install.  If I refinished the hardwood, I would have to move myself, my pets, and my stuff out of my house to get it done, all of which is a huge time and expense in addition to the time and expense of fixing the hardwood floors.  I do love the feel of real wood.  With LVP, I could just lay the planks on top, take on the job myself as I have time, it won't take long, and if I ever want to refinish the real wood floors, it won't be hard to remove the LVP. 

Fishindude

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2022, 11:00:15 AM »
I see a lot of people dissing hardwood. When you use natural products, then you need to accommodate natural properties. If you're not willing to do that, then don't use natural products. Properly cared for, hardwood floors can last decades or even centuries, is a renewable resource, and doesn't require the manufacturing processes of other options.

Truth spoken here.
You won't find 150 year old LVP floors.

Real wood (properly cared for) also happens to look a whole lot richer / nicer than synthetic products.

Jon Bon

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2022, 12:02:41 PM »
Hardwood in the home that I live in.

LVP in the houses I get income from. Its a great product but its going to labeled 'cheap' pretty soon. As others said hardwood never goes out of style. LVP is also NOT invincible,. it can be nicked like anything else. So if it is, its going to be painfully obvious compared to something that is a solid piece. It is however mostly waterproof.

Just did 800 sqft of natural hickory, and its awesome. Super bright, and just about the hardest wood species that there is!


Laura33

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2022, 12:07:59 PM »
I think it is entirely personal choice between solid hardwood, high-quality engineered hardwood, and LVP.

Personally, I like a thing to be what it is.  I like a lot of exposed wood, metal, and stone; I'm not a huge fan of paint (except on walls), and I truly detest faux finishes or "antiquing" of cabinets/furniture.  So for me, there's just no question:  it's real hardwood all the way.  Our c.1885 house has original quartersawn oak floors with mahogany inlay around the edges of the room.  They survived well over a century of abuse -- including the prior owner, who hired her masonry crew to refinish the floors, and got exactly what she paid for -- until a literal firehose of water recently damaged them beyond repair.  Sniff. 

But pay attention to @Sibley's post.  Our floors have a number of imperfections, because they're a natural product that survived 135+ years of life with humans.  They swell in MD summer humidity, then contract in winter.  There are holes we patched when we took the radiators out, a few stains from the prior owners' dogs, and the occasional dent or divot (although TBH, it's really, really hard to dent quartersawn white oak).  Also, modern hardwood is not necessarily the same quality/density of the old stuff, as faster-growing trees and younger forests mean the wood isn't as dense and thus is more subject to damage, so be careful with both the kind of wood and the vendor.

If you want a truly consistent, "smooth," perfectly finished look, or will be concerned with the occasional scratch or stain, go with a manmade product.  Perfection doesn't exist in nature, and it certainly doesn't exist in natural floors.

jrhampt

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2022, 12:20:17 PM »
We redid the flooring in our cottage a couple of years ago and ended up going with engineered hardwood.  We would have preferred hardwood, but the recommendation was to use the engineered because of the extremely humid summers on the shoreline (we routinely have 90-100% humidity days when it's not raining, but there's a low-lying fog or just really thick, soupy air).  Supposedly the engineered product does better when swelling and contracting.  We don't have kids or dogs, but we do use some rugs and think it's ok to get some scratches on the floor.  It's a 100 year old cottage anyway and is not perfect, no straight lines anywhere. 

Just Joe

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2022, 12:59:25 PM »
We have engineered wood floors in our current house. No idea how old they are. Veneer over plywood backing. They are holding up very well. I noticed on seam that has opened up a little near the back door. That part of the floor gets some wet feet (canine and feline plus human shoes).

The flooring looks a little too perfect. Consistent coloring and woodgrains. No knots anywhere. The real wood floor I put down in the previous house was a lesser grade of wood, not their most expensive. Consequently it had knots, varied colors and wood grain. We loved all the imperfections.

I'm fine with this engineered wood though.

Sibley

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2022, 01:01:41 PM »
Hardwood is awesome. I've got it through out my house. I also have carpet in large portions of my house. And rugs where I don't have carpet. I would never put hardwood in a kitchen or bathroom. Yes, I know people do (and did), but that doesn't make it a good idea. You're far better off with a more moisture tolerant material.

That said, I do appreciate the sheer abuse my LVP kitchen floor has taken in the past 5 years. Nothing else could have taken that abuse and still looked halfway decent.

@Queen Frugal heart pine is a softwood, though some of it can act more like a hardwood. Put rugs down. With dogs, there's not much you can do besides cover it. And keep the dog's claws trimmed, that will help some.

TomTX

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2022, 04:30:28 PM »
Hardwood floors require maintenance. Figure to spend $2500 every 5-7 years to refinish them. More so with dogs.
That seems awfully frequent. The house I grew up in was almost entirely hardwood - 3 kids and multiple pets. Parents had it refinished once in the 20+ years they had it.

PoutineLover

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2022, 05:39:56 PM »
I recently installed LVP in my kitchen and it was super easy to install and looks pretty good. It does get dirty pretty easily, but I picked a light colour, I should have known better. I prefer hardwood, and that's what we have in the rest of the house (except the bathroom). Parts of it were refinished a few years ago, the rest has an older stain on it so it's a bit darker. It wears great and I love the look. I don't have any experience with engineered hardwood and I don't love laminate, especially if there's any risk of it getting wet.
For simplicity/price: LVP is good
For a natural look/durability: hardwood all the way

AMandM

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2022, 05:51:45 PM »
I think I'm going to sound like a snob, but I've looked at vinyl planks in stores like Lowe's, and they all look to me like... plastic. Plastic trying to look like wood, or plastic trying to look like stone, but plastic. Am I missing something? Maybe Lowe's just doesn't carry luxurious enough vinyl?

Ron Scott

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2022, 08:16:27 PM »
I’ve had both engineered and hardwood and while engineered can be nice there is really no comparison. Hardwood, properly installed and finished is an amazing floor throughout the house.

Le Poisson

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2022, 09:25:41 PM »
I've read a bunch of the answers here and it seems like you are getting good advice in many different directions. I'll add to it with my own experience FWIW...

20 years ago I laid my first "real" hardwood floor. It was prefinished Russian something or other that we got at a discount place for a ridiculously low price - like $0.75 PSF. It was all warped, wouldn't lie tight, and looked awful. I swore I'd never do hardwood again. A year later, we sold the house. Since then we've bought 2 other homes and a few rentals.

I have laid multiple floors of laminate - good laminate with a good underlay is probably the cheapest bang for your buck, but our experience has not been good if any water gets into it at all. If someone is dripping on the run from shower to bedroom because they forgot a towel, expect boards to swell/peel. Laminate is easy to install, pretty fool proof (but not completely) and doesn't take much in the way of specialty tools. If you have a hammer and a chop saw, you're good to go. Most of our rentals have at least some laminate in them, and our primary residence has laminate in the kids play room. Cheap to buy, cheap to install and fast to replace make it a good candidate for low value spaces. Most of our laminate has cost us $1.25 PSF to $2.50 PSF with DIY installation.

As the laminate gives out, we are replacing it with LVP. We have had tenants who were really rough on the rentals, and in our primary house we have redone the master bath. LVP is a waterproof material in that you can soak it and it won't be affected, however it does not make a waterproof floor. If you dump a bucket of water on it, the water will go between the planks and start a mold farm under the floor. If you have pets who need housetraining, bathrooms, or other wet areas, LVP will provide a floor that looks good, but it will hide the water damage until you pull it up. We install LVP with a heavy vapor barrier beneath it to at least contain some of the damage. LVP is very durable, a little trickier than laminate to install, but still no special tools, and looks alright. You can tell it's a plastic floor, but it's a nice looking plastic floor. The LVP we use runs around $2.75 PSF

In our primary residence, we have replaced all of our carpet in most living areas with 3/4" gunstock oak prefinished hardwood from Bruce Hardwood. Unlike the cheap Russian stuff, this hardwood is (mostly) straight, comes in a nice mix of random lengths, and is pretty easy to lay. The downside of the prefinished hardwood is that it is near impossible to sand and refinish from what I hear, and after 8 years, some of the floors are starting to show their age. Installing hardwood isn't all that technically challenging, but it does take some specialized tools (nailer, compressor) and you need to be thinking all the time about how the different boards align and look once they are together. You also need to be creative enough to figure out how to nail the last 3-4 rows of boards when you are too close to the wall for the air tools. Our hardwood has done well despite 3 kids and 2 dogs doing their best to scratch it up. Bruce hardwood comes on sale at Home Depot for around $4 PSF, but you have to add cost of nails, tools, new baseboards etc. to it.


partgypsy

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2022, 05:49:32 AM »
Posting to follow. In my 100 year old house, have original pine floors throughout, sanded and refinished when first moved in 20 + years ago (remodeled with different materials for bathroom and kitchen). We have area rugs. The main issue is that the wood floors are pretty well worn and were not taken care of (about 50 years as a rental) and possibly worn to extent the wood needs replacing. My solution for now is to cover that spot with a small rug. My preference is to replace with hardwood when times comes, but I know it will be messy and expensive so I am putting it off...  I have strand woven engineered bamboo flooring in master bath and I love how it looks, wears like iron. But pricey.

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2022, 06:36:47 AM »
Posting to follow. In my 100 year old house, have original pine floors throughout, sanded and refinished when first moved in 20 + years ago (remodeled with different materials for bathroom and kitchen). We have area rugs. The main issue is that the wood floors are pretty well worn and were not taken care of (about 50 years as a rental) and possibly worn to extent the wood needs replacing. My solution for now is to cover that spot with a small rug. My preference is to replace with hardwood when times comes, but I know it will be messy and expensive so I am putting it off...  I have strand woven engineered bamboo flooring in master bath and I love how it looks, wears like iron. But pricey.

Unfortunately, that's not uncommon. Pine is a softwood, so it will wear harder. Rugs are your best bet until you're ready for something more drastic. However, be impressed that a softwood lasted for a century, even with neglect for much of that time.

NotBadForADad

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2022, 09:13:48 AM »
Hardwood floors require maintenance. Figure to spend $2500 every 5-7 years to refinish them. More so with dogs.
That seems awfully frequent. The house I grew up in was almost entirely hardwood - 3 kids and multiple pets. Parents had it refinished once in the 20+ years they had it.

Industry standard is 7-10 years, if you choose to keep your hardwood looking pristine. Hardwood floors will generally show their age at about ten years, and depending on the wear and tear of the owner, sometimes sooner.

Sure, you can absolutely go longer and can hold out till they absolutely need it. You can get about 4-6 refinishes throughout the lifetime of the floor before they need to be replaced.

It all depends on whether or not you care to or not, have the funds to do so, or are trying to sell the property.

Le Poisson

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2022, 09:43:19 AM »
Hardwood floors require maintenance. Figure to spend $2500 every 5-7 years to refinish them. More so with dogs.
That seems awfully frequent. The house I grew up in was almost entirely hardwood - 3 kids and multiple pets. Parents had it refinished once in the 20+ years they had it.

Industry standard is 7-10 years, if you choose to keep your hardwood looking pristine. Hardwood floors will generally show their age at about ten years, and depending on the wear and tear of the owner, sometimes sooner.

Sure, you can absolutely go longer and can hold out till they absolutely need it. You can get about 4-6 refinishes throughout the lifetime of the floor before they need to be replaced.

It all depends on whether or not you care to or not, have the funds to do so, or are trying to sell the property.

Do you know what the expended life of prefinished is, and how difficult it is to strip? I've heard that the prefinished hardwood is very difficult to sand/strip.

NotBadForADad

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2022, 09:50:52 AM »
Hardwood floors require maintenance. Figure to spend $2500 every 5-7 years to refinish them. More so with dogs.
That seems awfully frequent. The house I grew up in was almost entirely hardwood - 3 kids and multiple pets. Parents had it refinished once in the 20+ years they had it.

Industry standard is 7-10 years, if you choose to keep your hardwood looking pristine. Hardwood floors will generally show their age at about ten years, and depending on the wear and tear of the owner, sometimes sooner.

Sure, you can absolutely go longer and can hold out till they absolutely need it. You can get about 4-6 refinishes throughout the lifetime of the floor before they need to be replaced.

It all depends on whether or not you care to or not, have the funds to do so, or are trying to sell the property.

Do you know what the expended life of prefinished is, and how difficult it is to strip? I've heard that the prefinished hardwood is very difficult to sand/strip.


If you install prefinished, you get about the same life expectancy from field finished wood floors. Not the same as engineered hardwood, as the wear layer on engineered is a lot thinner.

Sanding and refinishing prefinished is the same as you would with unfinished flooring that have been field finished. It's a slow process but its not difficult, be weary to not drop the drum onto the floors while sanding. You can start off using 150, then 180, then 220. Then use a buffer and get a fine sanding screen. Look for dustless vacuums and be prepared to spend some time cleaning up haha.

uniwelder

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2022, 10:24:01 AM »
Hardwood floors require maintenance. Figure to spend $2500 every 5-7 years to refinish them. More so with dogs.
That seems awfully frequent. The house I grew up in was almost entirely hardwood - 3 kids and multiple pets. Parents had it refinished once in the 20+ years they had it.

Industry standard is 7-10 years, if you choose to keep your hardwood looking pristine. Hardwood floors will generally show their age at about ten years, and depending on the wear and tear of the owner, sometimes sooner.

Sure, you can absolutely go longer and can hold out till they absolutely need it. You can get about 4-6 refinishes throughout the lifetime of the floor before they need to be replaced.

It all depends on whether or not you care to or not, have the funds to do so, or are trying to sell the property.

Do you know what the expended life of prefinished is, and how difficult it is to strip? I've heard that the prefinished hardwood is very difficult to sand/strip.


If you install prefinished, you get about the same life expectancy from field finished wood floors. Not the same as engineered hardwood, as the wear layer on engineered is a lot thinner.

Sanding and refinishing prefinished is the same as you would with unfinished flooring that have been field finished. It's a slow process but its not difficult, be weary to not drop the drum onto the floors while sanding. You can start off using 150, then 180, then 220. Then use a buffer and get a fine sanding screen. Look for dustless vacuums and be prepared to spend some time cleaning up haha.

While we've got you here answering all these questions, do you have any experience with stranded bamboo, like Cali Bamboo flooring?  What's your opinion and have you ever known anyone that has refinished it?  It looks like there's three of us here that give it a thumbs up.

NotBadForADad

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2022, 11:00:26 AM »
Hardwood floors require maintenance. Figure to spend $2500 every 5-7 years to refinish them. More so with dogs.
That seems awfully frequent. The house I grew up in was almost entirely hardwood - 3 kids and multiple pets. Parents had it refinished once in the 20+ years they had it.

Industry standard is 7-10 years, if you choose to keep your hardwood looking pristine. Hardwood floors will generally show their age at about ten years, and depending on the wear and tear of the owner, sometimes sooner.

Sure, you can absolutely go longer and can hold out till they absolutely need it. You can get about 4-6 refinishes throughout the lifetime of the floor before they need to be replaced.

It all depends on whether or not you care to or not, have the funds to do so, or are trying to sell the property.

Do you know what the expended life of prefinished is, and how difficult it is to strip? I've heard that the prefinished hardwood is very difficult to sand/strip.


If you install prefinished, you get about the same life expectancy from field finished wood floors. Not the same as engineered hardwood, as the wear layer on engineered is a lot thinner.

Sanding and refinishing prefinished is the same as you would with unfinished flooring that have been field finished. It's a slow process but its not difficult, be weary to not drop the drum onto the floors while sanding. You can start off using 150, then 180, then 220. Then use a buffer and get a fine sanding screen. Look for dustless vacuums and be prepared to spend some time cleaning up haha.

While we've got you here answering all these questions, do you have any experience with stranded bamboo, like Cali Bamboo flooring?  What's your opinion and have you ever known anyone that has refinished it?  It looks like there's three of us here that give it a thumbs up.

Not me personally, but my brother (who owns and operates his own flooring business) says it acts like wood, it has a funny smell when you sand it. It's characteristically harder/stronger than maple.

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2022, 11:20:40 AM »
https://wood-database.com

This site lists a ton of characteristics of various species of wood.  The one you would be interested in is the Janka Hardness.  Janka Hardness is how many lbs of force is required to push a 1/2' steel ball half way into the wood.

Hard maple - 1450 lbs
Soft maple - 700 - 900 lbs
Pine - depends on the species.  I've seen from 300 to 750
Bamboo - 1410 lbs

I would assume the higher the Janka the better your floor will wear.  Higher Janka will definitely be more dent resistant. 

uniwelder

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2022, 12:56:25 PM »
https://wood-database.com

This site lists a ton of characteristics of various species of wood.  The one you would be interested in is the Janka Hardness.  Janka Hardness is how many lbs of force is required to push a 1/2' steel ball half way into the wood.

Hard maple - 1450 lbs
Soft maple - 700 - 900 lbs
Pine - depends on the species.  I've seen from 300 to 750
Bamboo - 1410 lbs

I would assume the higher the Janka the better your floor will wear.  Higher Janka will definitely be more dent resistant.

Exactly.  This is why I'm careful to make the distinction between regular (horizontal or vertical oriented) bamboo and stranded.  Stranded bamboo is shredded, then super compressed with resin.  Janka hardness is somewhere over 3,500. 

They're both made from the same bamboo, but different process.  Kind of like comparing regular OSB to AdvanTech subflooring.

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2022, 02:06:12 PM »
For my $0.02, I much prefer the look of solid hardwood over the other options. The price steered me away, though. I eventually picked prefinished bamboo as it gave me most of the look I was after with hardwood for less cost and a pretty simple install. The laminate and engineered seem like they were good choices but it was hard to find examples that didn't look fake and were reasonably priced.

Probably won't be a popular take, but, as far as LVP, I've been in a few new construction houses with it and I wasn't impressed. I'd use it in a rec room, mud room, garage or some other place where durability is paramount but not anywhere that aesthetics are important. It reminds me of a modern day linoleum.

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2022, 04:41:05 PM »
As others said hardwood never goes out of style.

Except it did though. So many old houses had the owners put wall-to-wall carpet over hardwoods because a wood floor was seen as a dated, out-of-style thing. The previous owners of our house did exactly that. Good thing they did, too, because when we pulled up the carpet in the living and dining room for refinishing the contractor told us the wood still had a few refinishes left in it despite being a century old.

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2022, 05:41:31 PM »
As others said hardwood never goes out of style.

Except it did though. So many old houses had the owners put wall-to-wall carpet over hardwoods because a wood floor was seen as a dated, out-of-style thing. The previous owners of our house did exactly that. Good thing they did, too, because when we pulled up the carpet in the living and dining room for refinishing the contractor told us the wood still had a few refinishes left in it despite being a century old.

I always found this astonishing. I always advised refinishing if the wood existed.

Had two friends of mine rip up their carpets and exposed the wood but then they cover it with LVP because they couldn't be bothered to refinish it. SMDH.

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2022, 08:59:35 PM »
As others said hardwood never goes out of style.

Except it did though. So many old houses had the owners put wall-to-wall carpet over hardwoods because a wood floor was seen as a dated, out-of-style thing. The previous owners of our house did exactly that. Good thing they did, too, because when we pulled up the carpet in the living and dining room for refinishing the contractor told us the wood still had a few refinishes left in it despite being a century old.

I always found this astonishing. I always advised refinishing if the wood existed.

Had two friends of mine rip up their carpets and exposed the wood but then they cover it with LVP because they couldn't be bothered to refinish it. SMDH.

I put new carpet in because the floor was so cold in the winter that it was lowering the temperature of the entire house noticeable. My heat bill went down after the install. It's not always because of looks - I would really prefer hardwood with some rugs. But I'm cold.

Le Poisson

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2022, 09:13:34 PM »
As others said hardwood never goes out of style.

Except it did though. So many old houses had the owners put wall-to-wall carpet over hardwoods because a wood floor was seen as a dated, out-of-style thing. The previous owners of our house did exactly that. Good thing they did, too, because when we pulled up the carpet in the living and dining room for refinishing the contractor told us the wood still had a few refinishes left in it despite being a century old.

I always found this astonishing. I always advised refinishing if the wood existed.

Had two friends of mine rip up their carpets and exposed the wood but then they cover it with LVP because they couldn't be bothered to refinish it. SMDH.

We have a rental (c.1875) with original hardwood and I am so conflicted with what to do with it. On the one hand, it is/was beautiful, with a lovely inlaid "picture frame" that defines each room uniquely. It is/was an amazing floor. However, it is circa 1875. Many boards are cracked. Sections of the inlay are missing individual pieces. In some spots past owners "patched" the inlays with whatever strip hardwood was available.

I could call in a restorationist to look at it and hear the quote and gasp, but also, it's a rental and the last tenants spray-painted an art project on teh floor, leaving a nice square of silver and black overspray in the middle of the dining room. The next may do worse.

I should lay laminate or something and just hide it for some future owner to unearth and be conflicted, but also, that would mean hiding one of the greatest character features of the house...

So conflicted.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2022, 09:37:41 PM »
I spent a year in a cheap old rental with hardwoods of a similar vintage. They were well past when they "should" have been refinished, but the living room floor was nevertheless one of the few charming things about the house. I fully understand and agree with the impulse to not put much money into a floor that the tenants probably aren't going to respect anyway. Maybe doing nothing is an underrated option here? I guarantee that those hardwoods that had gone a few decades since refinishing looked better than laminate would have looked after a similar period of neglect.

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2022, 10:57:09 PM »
We just installed lvp in our house.  It looks fine, sounds like rubber on certain shoes, and installed so easily.  It’s not super fancy, but it’s so functional.  We replaced our floors after not one, not two, but THREE floods in our main living space from three random different sources that decided to fail this winter.  Our fire place leaked, our dishwasher cracked a line, and our sink p trap cracked open.  We could probably go another 15 years without a flood again, but I don’t want to tempt the fates. 

One thing I love is how it feels to walk on, if that makes sense…it’s softer and so much warmer in the winter.  You can feel a difference in temp when you move from the lvp to the other surfaces in our house.  It’s an odd thing to describe, but it’s really nice.

NotBadForADad

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2022, 06:16:40 AM »
As others said hardwood never goes out of style.

Except it did though. So many old houses had the owners put wall-to-wall carpet over hardwoods because a wood floor was seen as a dated, out-of-style thing. The previous owners of our house did exactly that. Good thing they did, too, because when we pulled up the carpet in the living and dining room for refinishing the contractor told us the wood still had a few refinishes left in it despite being a century old.



I always found this astonishing. I always advised refinishing if the wood existed.

Had two friends of mine rip up their carpets and exposed the wood but then they cover it with LVP because they couldn't be bothered to refinish it. SMDH.

We have a rental (c.1875) with original hardwood and I am so conflicted with what to do with it. On the one hand, it is/was beautiful, with a lovely inlaid "picture frame" that defines each room uniquely. It is/was an amazing floor. However, it is circa 1875. Many boards are cracked. Sections of the inlay are missing individual pieces. In some spots past owners "patched" the inlays with whatever strip hardwood was available.

I could call in a restorationist to look at it and hear the quote and gasp, but also, it's a rental and the last tenants spray-painted an art project on teh floor, leaving a nice square of silver and black overspray in the middle of the dining room. The next may do worse.

I should lay laminate or something and just hide it for some future owner to unearth and be conflicted, but also, that would mean hiding one of the greatest character features of the house...

So conflicted.

If you're handy you can cut out the sections and reinstall wood that closely matches it, but in the end it is a rental.

If it's currently rented I would just cover it with LVP. You want to look at at least 12mil, if not 20mil. If you find 6"wide plank or less it will looks more closely to real wood. Going wider looks too fake.

Or if you want to sell... I would refinish it only if it wasn't rented out during the selling process.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 06:19:46 AM by NotBadForADad »

NotBadForADad

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2022, 06:21:25 AM »
We just installed lvp in our house.  It looks fine, sounds like rubber on certain shoes, and installed so easily.  It’s not super fancy, but it’s so functional.  We replaced our floors after not one, not two, but THREE floods in our main living space from three random different sources that decided to fail this winter.  Our fire place leaked, our dishwasher cracked a line, and our sink p trap cracked open.  We could probably go another 15 years without a flood again, but I don’t want to tempt the fates. 

One thing I love is how it feels to walk on, if that makes sense…it’s softer and so much warmer in the winter.  You can feel a difference in temp when you move from the lvp to the other surfaces in our house.  It’s an odd thing to describe, but it’s really nice.

Not to mention the acoustics.

I put glue down LVP throughout my main floor of the house and as you mentioned, it's softer, but also more quiet.

If the basement I am putting down the click lock stuff and even still its absorbing the room echo a little.

uniwelder

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2022, 07:37:12 AM »
Thanks so much for the input.

This will be in our upstairs hallway, 3 bedrooms, stairs and one living room.

We are getting rid of the carpet for easier cleaning/less allergens with dogs.  Scratches do not really bother us, we would just want to refinish when selling.  Have hardwood in other areas and dog scratches don’t bother us personally.

Our home is in the Midwest, worth roughly $465k to answer someone’s question.

It has a unique layout and a bit of a MCM vibe with views to multiple levels and MCM roof lines from front view.  That is why I am leaning solid hardwood as we want to add higher end materials throughout.  We plan to be in the house at least another 8-10 years.

I will definitely look into LVP after the input received here though.

OP, the conversation has gotten away from your actual concerns about the house you live in.  I'm curious what you're thinking.  Based on your quoted response, it seems appropriate to try to match the living room to the hardwood floors already in the lower portion of the house, assuming its mostly connected to that space.  The rest of where you're looking to redo floors seems like its all connected upstairs and would be a separate decision.

Does MCM mean McMansion?  700 sq feet seems small for a hallway, stairs, 3 bedrooms, and living room if thats the case.

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Re: Solid hardwood vs Engineered vs laminate?
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2022, 08:06:08 AM »
MCM = Mid Century Modern I presume.