Software going politically correct

[Kris]

The term Black Lives Matter is deliberately designed to be confusing and manipulative.

No. No, it’s not. It’s deliberately designed to be clear and unambiguous.

The “All lives matter” response, on the other hand, seems tailor-made to be obfuscating and deliberately obtuse.

[MudPuppy]

Happyuk is not a good faith poster, y’all. Just ignore.


Interesting that saying black lives matter is so threatening to “America” that it’s equivalent to burning it down.

[Wrenchturner]

Happyuk is not a good faith poster, y’all. Just ignore.

Don't poison the well.  People can make their own assessments of value.  I don't agree with you on that allegation.

The criticism I've heard (historically) of BLM came from this incident in Toronto:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter#Canada

In June 2016, Black Lives Matter was selected by Pride Toronto as the honored group in that year's Pride parade, during which they staged a sit-in to block the parade from moving forward for approximately half an hour.[240] They issued several demands for Pride to adjust its relationship with LGBTQ people of color, including stable funding and a suitable venue for the established Blockorama event, improved diversity in the organization's staff and volunteer base, and that Toronto Police officers be banned from marching in the parade in uniform.[241] Pride executive director Mathieu Chantelois signed BLM's statement of demand, but later asserted that he had signed it only to end the sit-in and get the parade moving, and had not agreed to honour the demands.[242]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_Toronto#Black_Lives_Matter

Debate over the action focused primarily on the question of whether banning uniformed police from the parade represented an abdication of the organization's stated values of diversity and inclusivity,[27] largely without regard to the matter of whether not honouring the demand, thereby alienating racialized and transgender members of the community, would also be an abdication of those same values.[28] Some media analysts claimed that BLM was an outside group with no connection to LGBTQ issues at all, and thus should not have been invited to participate in the first place, even though the all of the demands related directly to Pride's handling of transgender and racial issues, and BLM leaders Janaya Khan and Syrus Marcus Ware are both queer-identified.[29] Pride staff have reaffirmed on more than one occasion that police were not barred from participating in the parade at all, but were simply being directed not to march in uniform.[30]

[ender]

The point isn't to debate regional dialects or whether all women are offended by being called either girls or guys (obviously plenty of wen are fine with either).

The point is the same as the white/black hat stuff- if you KNOW it bothers some people (and you do.... Because I am telling you it bothers me, and I can tell you I'm not the only one) then you stop using it because there are indeed plenty of other choices that don't bother people!

Folks
People
Y'all
Everyone
Team

Etc etc etc

If Sally is bothered by guys and Joe is bothered by black/white and then add up all the other microaggressions, are we really surprised we end up with a white male majority?

The question is: do the white males see any problem with this or are they benefitting from it and conciously or unconsciously trying to keep the status quo going. Not that I'm actually asking that question. I already know the answer.

So, is it OK for women to call groups of other women 'the girls'?  Or do we need to suppress this as well as a microaggression?  I guess my question is, is 'girls' like the n-word where usage is OK but only depending on your race/sex?

How is that the same example? The situation @MayDay describes refers to collectively referring to a group of mixed gender folks as "guys."

It's pretty easy logically. If there isn't literally a group of men, don't say "guys." Use something else that isn't gendered.

It's not that hard.

In the engineering world, I overwhelmingly see "girls" used by men and describe women in a demeaning way. If women want to use that phrase to describe themselves, what is it to me? Why should I as a guy even care?

edit: one of the next posts I read on this forum literally has a "you guys" in it too https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/hiring-movers/msg2544291/?topicseen#new

[nereo]

The term Black Lives Matter is deliberately designed to be confusing and manipulative. Of course black lives matter. That's axiomatic. There's probably not a single Mustachian reading this who'd disagree.

But when one criticises the organisation (in Title Case!), the very wording of their name is then used to imply that you're a racist. That's purposeful. Who ever designed this knew what they were doing.

If the name of the organisation was Burn Down America (which I think is far more representative of the organisers' core values) then there'd be little confusion or misunderstanding about what's really happening here.

Wait - are you seriously suggesting that Black Lives Matter is akin to Burn Down America ??

[shuffler]

Happyuk is not a good faith poster, y’all. Just ignore.

Don't poison the well.  People can make their own assessments of value.  I don't agree with you on that allegation.

Please assess this post for value.

9/11-skeptic.  Covid-denial (or at least blaming it on electromagnetic radiation from 5g).  Claiming a "LGBT psyop" to reduce global population growth.

I can't say whether HappyUK is a good faith poster, because he may actually believe all this.

I can say (and the reason I'm posting) that a conspiracy-proclaimer sailing into a thread about coding terms, to drag BLM when nobody else has mentioned it in the thread ... well, that person doesn't seem to be following the forum rules about not being a jerk, or about using good taste, and seems to be detracting from the forum more than contributing to it.

I would normally prefer to refute an argument than a person ... but there's not much argument to refute in HappyUK's last post, and (in my opinion, and seemingly also MudPuppy's) his track-record of multiple conspiracy-minded postings is deleterious to the forum.

[MudPuppy]

@shuffler That’s what I was trying to say. Thanks for talking more gooder than me.

[Wrenchturner]

Happyuk is not a good faith poster, y’all. Just ignore.

Don't poison the well.  People can make their own assessments of value.  I don't agree with you on that allegation.

Please assess this post for value.

9/11-skeptic.  Covid-denial (or at least blaming it on electromagnetic radiation from 5g).  Claiming a "LGBT psyop" to reduce global population growth.

I can't say whether HappyUK is a good faith poster, because he may actually believe all this.

I can say (and the reason I'm posting) that a conspiracy-proclaimer sailing into a thread about coding terms, to drag BLM when nobody else has mentioned it in the thread ... well, that person doesn't seem to be following the forum rules about not being a jerk, or about using good taste, and seems to be detracting from the forum more than contributing to it.

I would normally prefer to refute an argument than a person ... but there's not much argument to refute in HappyUK's last post, and (in my opinion, and seemingly also MudPuppy's) his track-record of multiple conspiracy-minded postings is deleterious to the forum.

Fair enough, that seems like the rantings of a crazy/schizo person. 

[Kris]

Happyuk is not a good faith poster, y’all. Just ignore.

Don't poison the well.  People can make their own assessments of value.  I don't agree with you on that allegation.

Please assess this post for value.

9/11-skeptic.  Covid-denial (or at least blaming it on electromagnetic radiation from 5g).  Claiming a "LGBT psyop" to reduce global population growth.

I can't say whether HappyUK is a good faith poster, because he may actually believe all this.

I can say (and the reason I'm posting) that a conspiracy-proclaimer sailing into a thread about coding terms, to drag BLM when nobody else has mentioned it in the thread ... well, that person doesn't seem to be following the forum rules about not being a jerk, or about using good taste, and seems to be detracting from the forum more than contributing to it.

I would normally prefer to refute an argument than a person ... but there's not much argument to refute in HappyUK's last post, and (in my opinion, and seemingly also MudPuppy's) his track-record of multiple conspiracy-minded postings is deleterious to the forum.

Fair enough, that seems like the rantings of a crazy/schizo person.

Hoo boy... no kidding.

Thanks for posting that link, @shuffler .

I hope Happyuk gets the help he needs.

[MudPuppy]

I hesitate to label him with an MH diagnosis for many reasons, not the least of which being that rarely do I find truly delusional patients to endorse common conspiracy theories.

[happyuk]

MudPuppy, Kris et at, dear god that's some pretty nasty, unnecessary personalized statements you're making there.  Are you sure you're on the side of the good guys?

And for what, exactly?  Calling out BLM for being a destructive organisation?  There is nothing remotely altruistic about these people.

The current US issue has become politicized, exploited, and quite bonkers. I would be reassured to see BLM activists making at least some kind of acknowledgment of the plights of other disempowered, abused and suppressed people in the world. That would show real humanity, humility and awareness on their part. But to the best of my knowledge they don't, and in not doing so they do themselves no favours.

I would say it borders on white supremacist arrogance for their leaders to suggest that their cause is more important than that of any other significantly abused group. There's something bady wrong here.

[happyuk]

Of course, black lives matter. And that's because white lives matter, too and so do the lives of:

• The domestically abused
  Abused children
  Native Americans (I wonder what they think about all this?)
  The Uyghurs, a million of them in China's "re-education camps"
  Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh (a million of them, too)
  The San Bushmen, who've been displaced from the Kalahari desert where they had lived for 40,000 years
  The Australian Aborigines.
  The New Zealand Maoris
  The poorest people in the world who live on less than $1 a day
  The indigenous tribes in the Amazon rain forest
  Thousands of political prisoners whose names we may never know
  Every Mustachian reading this.

That's a very incomplete list.

[2Cent]

The term Black Lives Matter is deliberately designed to be confusing and manipulative.

No. No, it’s not. It’s deliberately designed to be clear and unambiguous.

The “All lives matter” response, on the other hand, seems tailor-made to be obfuscating and deliberately obtuse.

I think the all lives matter response is true due to the fact that it's not only black people who have to endure police brutality.
2019 Police Deadly Use of Force:
    White –456 (45.69%)
    Black –229 (22.95%)
    Hispanic –165 (16.5%)
    Other –41 (4.1%)
    Unknown –107 (10.72%)

The fact that a white officer killing a black man causes so much more backlash shows how divided the US still is. It's like if one American soldier kills another American soldier it's just a crime, but if a Chinese soldier does it it's a declaration of war. So Black Lives Matters says to me we Black people are a separate group that wants your group, white people, to stop attacking us. While needless killing, especially by police officers, is a big crime, and should stop, to stop racism we need to stop dividing people into race groups.
Unfortunately the people using the All Lives Matter argument are people who seem to be the ones who often espouse racist and other bad ideas, so that kid of poisons the phrase.
 

[nereo]

MudPuppy, Kris et at, dear god that's some pretty nasty, unnecessary personalized statements you're making there.  Are you sure you're on the side of the good guys?

And for what, exactly?  Calling out BLM for being a destructive organisation?  There is nothing remotely altruistic about these people.

The current US issue has become politicized, exploited, and quite bonkers. I would be reassured to see BLM activists making at least some kind of acknowledgment of the plights of other disempowered, abused and suppressed people in the world. That would show real humanity, humility and awareness on their part. But to the best of my knowledge they don't, and in not doing so they do themselves no favours.

I would say it borders on white supremacist arrogance for their leaders to suggest that their cause is more important than that of any other significantly abused group. There's something bady wrong here.

I disagree with you that BLM is a destructive organization.  Advocating for racial equality for black peoples does not negate the value of lives of people in other groups in any way.

Regardless, this no longer has any connection to the OP and has moved into ad hominem attacks.

Please stick to the topic and forum rules (this goes to all).

Cheers.

[GuitarStv]

In the engineering world, I overwhelmingly see "girls" used by men and describe women in a demeaning way. If women want to use that phrase to describe themselves, what is it to me? Why should I as a guy even care?

As mentioned several times, my wife regularly uses the term 'girls' to describe her group of female friends.  Multiple different people have said that the term 'girls' when used by men is a microaggression and extremely offensive.  I was just curious if this held true when women use the term.  From the responses, it sounds like when it comes from a woman it's OK sometimes.

In the engineering world that I'm currently a part of, I overwhelmingly see "girls" used by women to describe a group women in a causal way.  I never hear men use 'girl' to describe an individual women, and rarely hear men use the term 'girls' to describe a group of women.  From what you're describing, it sounds like you work in a bit crappier place than I do.  We have pretty close to 50/50 numbers at the company I'm at right now when looking at the ratio of men/women, and more than half the product managers are women at the moment.  (Upper management is about 80% men, but I rarely have interactions with them so don't know how things are there).  I've been in charge of a fair amount of the interviewing/hiring of people for our company, and . . . looking through my records . . . have hired more female than male candidates over the past four years.  When the folks in charge of your promotion/raise are mostly women, there maybe is a reduction in the use of 'girls'?

I've certainly heard 'you guys' used as a more generic way of referring to any group of people by both men and women, and am rather surprised that people would take offense at this term.  Next you'll be telling me I shouldn't use the terms 'peon', 'serf', or 'proletariat' when addressing the co-op students I hire.  :P

[Laura33]

Yeah, ok, apparently I lied.  I see the thread has moved on to the "girls" issue, and I wanted to clarify:  my comment focused on the longstanding and highly-insulting use of "boy" and "girl" to refer to black people.  I assumed that this was one of those "bygone era" things that no longer existed except maybe in certain affirmatively-racist areas.  So to hear it as just a casual, automatic usage in a public restroom in my area was shocking.

Really:  if you see an older white lady -- a grandma type -- manning the restroom, who is going to refer to her as the "girl"?  Wouldn't you show her the respect due her age by calling her a "lady" -- "don't forget to leave a tip for the lady"?  Or a title, like "cleaner" or "attendant"?  I have trouble conceiving of anyone calling a white grandma a "girl."  And yet without thinking, change the color of her skin, and that's the first thing that trips off the tongue?   

When we talk about microaggressions, that's the kind of thing we mean.  Obviously, there is nothing wrong with the word "girl," and the lady who said it was not using it as an epithet in any intentionally negative way.  And yet imagine being called "girl" or "boy" repeatedly, when your white counterparts are called "ladies" or "gentlemen" or "women" or "men" other more respectful things.  And then imagine knowing that the people who call you "girl" aren't actually trying to be mean -- that's actually worse, because it means they inherently, unthinkingly see you as meriting less respect than someone who is exactly like you but white. 

[Just Joe]

You could never confuse me for a coder but I can sure turn a wrench.

Cars have this terminology as well. Master cylinder and slave cylinder. 99% of the time these terms are used for your breaking system. The other 1% is for your transmission.

For what they do the terms work ... wouldn’t take much creativity to replace them though.

50% used for brake system, 49% clutch, 1% transmission

Agreed.

I wonder if my kids will even know what a clutch is ? Lol  Do people still drive standards outside of some hot rods ?

What's a "hot rod"? ;)

(I'm a gearhead and you are right!)

[RetiredAt63]

You could never confuse me for a coder but I can sure turn a wrench.

Cars have this terminology as well. Master cylinder and slave cylinder. 99% of the time these terms are used for your breaking system. The other 1% is for your transmission.

For what they do the terms work ... wouldn’t take much creativity to replace them though.

50% used for brake system, 49% clutch, 1% transmission

Agreed.

I wonder if my kids will even know what a clutch is ? Lol  Do people still drive standards outside of some hot rods ?

What's a "hot rod"? ;)

(I'm a gearhead and you are right!)

My DD and SIL love their standard cars.

[Buffaloski Boris]

This topic was quite the kerfuffle over the weekend.  So, I decided to give the topic a read.

Here is what I learned by reading 200 plus posts.  The TL/DR version:

This is indeed a group blessed with abundant good fortune. While other folks are waiting in line for food donations and trying to figure out things like how to pay this months rent, this topic went into a very detailed analysis of appropriate adjectives.   

I learned that when the topic goes to politics, people can be real jerks. Well, OK. I already knew that. It merits another mention. It's like a never-fail recipe: take decent, kind people, mix in some politics and voila! Instant Jerks.

I also figured out that I actually do care about this community and would like to see it grow and improve. I guess it's time to take that on as a tiny side gig.

[mathlete]

Not a software developer so I didn’t think I’d have much to add in this thread so I hadn’t clicked on it yet. Decided to check it out though and was immediately greeted with pretty “yikes” takes. Goodness!

[Buffaloski Boris]

Not a software developer so I didn’t think I’d have much to add in this thread so I hadn’t clicked on it yet. Decided to check it out though and was immediately greeted with pretty “yikes” takes. Goodness!

Ain't that the truth.  Kinda glad I didn't read it earlier in the heat of things. Hope this finds you well.

[arebelspy]

MOD NOTE: Political trolling falls under the general rule against trolling. Actions taken. Leaving topic open for now, if people still want to discuss, please keep it on topic. Feel free to report to mods if it doesn't stay that way. Appreciate the help of benevolent* forum users.

Cheers!



*Showing my personal bias, I found it pretty easy to use a different word than the color of a hat, which, sure could have worked as well, but so can many other words and phrases that aren't offensive.

[sherr]

MOD NOTE: Political trolling falls under the general rule against trolling. Actions taken. Leaving topic open for now, if people still want to discuss, please keep it on topic. Feel free to report to mods if it doesn't stay that way. Appreciate the help of benevolent* forum users.

Cheers!

I would actually be very interested to know who we consider to be doing the "political trolling" here.

[Buffaloski Boris]

MOD NOTE: Political trolling falls under the general rule against trolling. Actions taken. Leaving topic open for now, if people still want to discuss, please keep it on topic. Feel free to report to mods if it doesn't stay that way. Appreciate the help of benevolent* forum users.

Cheers!

I would actually be very interested to know who we consider to be doing the "political trolling" here.

He said political trolling, so I don't know.  Now if he said apolitical trolling, then I'd have a pretty good idea of who was being discussed.

[nereo]

Does the typo in the thread title bother anyone else?

Edit: autocorrect. 

[RetiredAt63]

Does the typhoon the threat title bother anyone else?

Autocorrect strikes again.  And yes.

[nereo]

Does the typhoon the threat title bother anyone else?

Autocorrect strikes again.  And yes.

Oh man....  do I feel sheepish. 

[anni]

I saw this and I can't say it affects my life that much but I was a little relieved. I always hated calling things master and slave nodes. It wasn't only the racial issue (from a US perspective) but also it made me think of Slave Leah from Star Wars and just generally felt... icky.

[calimom]

Does the typhoon the threat title bother anyone else?

Autocorrect strikes again.  And yes.

Oh man....  do I feel sheepish.

This should be posted in 'the best post I saw on the MMM forums today thread'. Because I love it so much, and was  thinking the same thing, but without the typhoon part. Or maybe I was thinking typhoon and didn't know it yet.

[sherr]

I would actually be very interested to know who we consider to be doing the "political trolling" here.

He said political trolling, so I don't know.  Now if he said apolitical trolling, then I'd have a pretty good idea of who was being discussed.

A distinction without a difference, IMO.

[Kris]

I would actually be very interested to know who we consider to be doing the "political trolling" here.

He said political trolling, so I don't know.  Now if he said apolitical trolling, then I'd have a pretty good idea of who was being discussed.

A distinction without a difference, IMO.

+1.

[dignam]

DBA checking in...I use master/slave terminology throughout each day.  Guess I never considered it could be offensive.  What do we call it instead?  Parent/child?  Jedi/Padawan?  But then when we have to kill a certain slave process, we're instead killing a child process...which sounds pretty bad.

Poor Oracle/MySQL/MariaDB/Percona, etc. would have a lot of patching to do lol.

[shuffler]

I use master/slave terminology throughout each day.  Guess I never considered it could be offensive.  What do we call it instead?

Primary/Secondary often works.
It's almost as if there should be a tool for finding words that are like other words.   ;^)

[anni]

I use master/slave terminology throughout each day.  Guess I never considered it could be offensive.  What do we call it instead?

Primary/Secondary often works.
It's almost as if there should be a tool for finding words that are like other words.   ;^)

Dom and sub nodes? LOL

[desertadapted]

@anni
In property law, they talk about dominant and servient tenements.  So someone already thought about dom and sub nodes . . . 

[Paul der Krake]

All processes are children of Init, the One Creator Goddess with spawning powers. They serve at her discretion, and she is one cruel mother.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Interesting topic..ironically timed for me, as I just recently saw a post on FB by a friend of mine that commented on how he was basically extremely disappointed that there would be any push back on him telling others to not use the phrase master bedroom. The master/slave thing makes sense as offensive b/c they're tied together thus providing context. The guy didn't go into it, so I'm not sure if he had done some digging to tie the phrase master in the context of bedroom back to slavery or maybe it was just the terminology in and of itself. I was a bit surprised not that he thought it was a problem but that he seemed a bit condescending about the whole thing when I didn't feel the issue was as clear of a thing as the master/slave  discussion here, for example. Anyone ready to stop calling it a master bedroom and/or already does this?

As an aside, this concept happened to me whenever it was that I first heard the term "wife-beater" to describe a style of shirt. Every time I hear/heard seemingly reasonable people use that I'm blown away.

[sherr]

Interesting topic..ironically timed for me, as I just recently saw a post on FB by a friend of mine that commented on how he was basically extremely disappointed that there would be any push back on him telling others to not use the phrase master bedroom. The master/slave thing makes sense as offensive b/c they're tied together thus providing context. The guy didn't go into it, so I'm not sure if he had done some digging to tie the phrase master in the context of bedroom back to slavery or maybe it was just the terminology in and of itself. I was a bit surprised not that he thought it was a problem but that he seemed a bit condescending about the whole thing when I didn't feel the issue was as clear of a thing as the master/slave  discussion here, for example. Anyone ready to stop calling it a master bedroom and/or already does this?

Yes, this has also been an ongoing conversation in that industry for many years (my dad's a realtor). Here is a rather topical article about a Houston realtor group that announced last week that they're moving away from "master bedroom". They are moving to "primary bedroom", but you'll also here "owner's suite" or similar these days. If you browse your local listings on zillow or something I'll bet you'll find that a good percentage of listings already don't call it a "master bedroom".

[RetiredAt63]

Interesting topic..ironically timed for me, as I just recently saw a post on FB by a friend of mine that commented on how he was basically extremely disappointed that there would be any push back on him telling others to not use the phrase master bedroom. The master/slave thing makes sense as offensive b/c they're tied together thus providing context. The guy didn't go into it, so I'm not sure if he had done some digging to tie the phrase master in the context of bedroom back to slavery or maybe it was just the terminology in and of itself. I was a bit surprised not that he thought it was a problem but that he seemed a bit condescending about the whole thing when I didn't feel the issue was as clear of a thing as the master/slave  discussion here, for example. Anyone ready to stop calling it a master bedroom and/or already does this?

As an aside, this concept happened to me whenever it was that I first heard the term "wife-beater" to describe a style of shirt. Every time I hear/heard seemingly reasonable people use that I'm blown away.

Master bedroom is for the master and mistress of the house.  As opposed to children, relatives, guests.  Not an issue to me,  but if there were it would be a "why is it called after him but not her" kind of issue..  Wife-beater shirts just totally get me in a massively negative way.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Interesting topic..ironically timed for me, as I just recently saw a post on FB by a friend of mine that commented on how he was basically extremely disappointed that there would be any push back on him telling others to not use the phrase master bedroom. The master/slave thing makes sense as offensive b/c they're tied together thus providing context. The guy didn't go into it, so I'm not sure if he had done some digging to tie the phrase master in the context of bedroom back to slavery or maybe it was just the terminology in and of itself. I was a bit surprised not that he thought it was a problem but that he seemed a bit condescending about the whole thing when I didn't feel the issue was as clear of a thing as the master/slave  discussion here, for example. Anyone ready to stop calling it a master bedroom and/or already does this?

As an aside, this concept happened to me whenever it was that I first heard the term "wife-beater" to describe a style of shirt. Every time I hear/heard seemingly reasonable people use that I'm blown away.

Master bedroom is for the master and mistress of the house.  As opposed to children, relatives, guests.  Not an issue to me,  but if there were it would be a "why is it called after him but not her" kind of issue..  Wife-beater shirts just totally get me in a massively negative way.

I'm extremely, extremely oblivious to things and their negative connotations. I almost always need someone to say, hey, have you ever thought about how this phrase could be taken for me to recognize it. That phrase, though, I mean, it's wordy enough that you have to process it at least a little, and if you think about it in any way, shape, or form, there's no way to misconstrue the meaning of the phrase. It's totally disgusting.

[ysette9]

When I had some free time I went through a phase of watching real estate cotton candy shows on YouTube (house hunters-esque) made for the French market. Turns out in French the main/master bedroom is called « la chambre parentale ». The parental bedroom.

[RetiredAt63]

When I had some free time I went through a phase of watching real estate cotton candy shows on YouTube (house hunters-esque) made for the French market. Turns out in French the main/master bedroom is called « la chambre parentale ». The parental bedroom.

Perfect term.

[availablelight]

Interesting topic..ironically timed for me, as I just recently saw a post on FB by a friend of mine that commented on how he was basically extremely disappointed that there would be any push back on him telling others to not use the phrase master bedroom. The master/slave thing makes sense as offensive b/c they're tied together thus providing context. The guy didn't go into it, so I'm not sure if he had done some digging to tie the phrase master in the context of bedroom back to slavery or maybe it was just the terminology in and of itself. I was a bit surprised not that he thought it was a problem but that he seemed a bit condescending about the whole thing when I didn't feel the issue was as clear of a thing as the master/slave  discussion here, for example. Anyone ready to stop calling it a master bedroom and/or already does this?

Yes, this has also been an ongoing conversation in that industry for many years (my dad's a realtor). Here is a rather topical article about a Houston realtor group that announced last week that they're moving away from "master bedroom". They are moving to "primary bedroom", but you'll also here "owner's suite" or similar these days. If you browse your local listings on zillow or something I'll bet you'll find that a good percentage of listings already don't call it a "master bedroom".

Owner's suite?  That evokes slave owning!  Cancel!  (The NBA already tried to do this for owners of basketball teams, for the same so-called reasons.)

This slope is, in fact, slippery, and results in much worse things than silly word choices.

Edit: Case in point, this unabashed hatred and dehumanization of men:

No. We know how to think. The issue is that you all don't know how to feel. Men's inability to identify, feel, and process emotions is literally destroying this world and yet you can't let go of your precious privilege of seeing yourselves as the arbiters of reason.

And you make another large mistake, which is that thinking anyone in the rising movement gives a shit about what you think and how smart you think you are compared to us. We don't. We just intend to take your power away and do better things with it.

Come and take it, as the Spartans said.

[scottish]

Way to de-escalate!     I want you negotiating on behalf of my gender.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Way to de-escalate!     I want you negotiating on behalf of my gender.

Lol, that's what I was thinking. I mean, yes, madgeylou's post was fairly aggressive and a little offensive. Solution? Let's take it up a notch! That always works, lol.

[iris lily]

Way to de-escalate!     I want you negotiating on behalf of my gender.

Lol, that's what I was thinking. I mean, yes, madgeylou's post was fairly aggressive and a little offensive. Solution? Let's take it up a notch! That always works, lol.

You guys are funny.

Broad brush strokes about how men don’t feel deserve this kind of treatment.

[scottish]

Are you sure?   The (partial) quote was from a dialogue leading to the battle of Thermopylae.

I don't think we need to jump to physical combat quite yet.

[GuitarStv]

We have the edge in combat.  We can scratch them with our beards!

[RWD]

Interesting topic..ironically timed for me, as I just recently saw a post on FB by a friend of mine that commented on how he was basically extremely disappointed that there would be any push back on him telling others to not use the phrase master bedroom. The master/slave thing makes sense as offensive b/c they're tied together thus providing context. The guy didn't go into it, so I'm not sure if he had done some digging to tie the phrase master in the context of bedroom back to slavery or maybe it was just the terminology in and of itself. I was a bit surprised not that he thought it was a problem but that he seemed a bit condescending about the whole thing when I didn't feel the issue was as clear of a thing as the master/slave  discussion here, for example. Anyone ready to stop calling it a master bedroom and/or already does this?

As an aside, this concept happened to me whenever it was that I first heard the term "wife-beater" to describe a style of shirt. Every time I hear/heard seemingly reasonable people use that I'm blown away.

Master bedroom is for the master and mistress of the house.  As opposed to children, relatives, guests.  Not an issue to me,  but if there were it would be a "why is it called after him but not her" kind of issue..  Wife-beater shirts just totally get me in a massively negative way.

Yes, the word "master" by itself does not automatically imply corresponding slave(s) or even ownership of anything. Some examples: master/apprentice, master's degree, chess master, etc.

I always thought wifebeater was weird as well. But I don't know another term that unambiguously describes that style of shirt. Wikipedia is suggesting tank top (easy to confuse with women's style tank top), tank shirt or muscle shirt (I've never heard these, are they common?), and two other ethnic slurs... Looks like a lot of English speaking countries (though not USA) used "singlet" (not to be confused with a wrestling singlet).

When I had some free time I went through a phase of watching real estate cotton candy shows on YouTube (house hunters-esque) made for the French market. Turns out in French the main/master bedroom is called « la chambre parentale ». The parental bedroom.

Perfect term.

Except for people that don't/can't/won't have kids...

[AccidentialMustache]

DBA checking in...I use master/slave terminology throughout each day.  Guess I never considered it could be offensive.  What do we call it instead?  Parent/child?  Jedi/Padawan?  But then when we have to kill a certain slave process, we're instead killing a child process...which sounds pretty bad.

Poor Oracle/MySQL/MariaDB/Percona, etc. would have a lot of patching to do lol.

Postgres went to primary/replica a while back, which is way more accurate than the master/slave. I mean really, when was the last time you saw a slave owner give their slaves a copy of (equal shares of?) everything valuable the master had?