Social Security Under Attack

[thd7t]

So, systems work to help those that need it?  Let's see...

Playing the cancer card won't work with me- my father lost his job and health insurance right when he was diagnosed with cancer because a liberal governor cut funding to his employer (a hospital).  He wound up suffering 4 major strokes last year, attributed to the cancer treatments and had no health insurance for the first time in decades.  He has been a hard working man his whole life, and never indulged in anything for himself.  What system helped him out?  Is it the same one that lets Shaquisha have her 7th abortion for free, or cover contraceptives for people who have no self restraint?  Who approves subsidy allocation?  Surely not I, or Shaquisha would have mandatory tubal ligation on her dime.

Reading the story that you've laid out, I can conclude that you've been through some unusually difficult events.  Your reaction makes you seem angry about this.  However, you state that the strength of your anecdotal evidence is important, so I have to ask about this "Shaquisha" story.  Do you know this person?  It seems unlikely.  This apparent strawman really diminishes the strength of your other stories.  I do not doubt them, but I don't really believe that you know this person.  You have been pretty careful with personal information (you've said so, earlier), so I would be surprised if you are divulging someone's name.  I am not trying to attack you, here, but I do want to point out that you damage your credibility by doing this.  I believe that this runs a big risk of derailing the thread. 
For full disclosure, I don't agree with your position on social programs, but I think that we can have a valuable discussion (and even argument) about them, as long as we don't get off track.

[Colgate_Toothpaste]

So you're in favor of smaller government, yet it was a liberal governor who cut your dad's job through funding reductions?

Why don't you look and see how CT is doing before you make shitty statements like that.  They amount of resources that went towards trying to ban a damn rifle should be enough to prove that liberals have no clue how to manage money.  But, out of everything they chose to cut, they chose to cut funding to hospitals.  I didn't think that was the liberal mindset- or am I wrong on that one too?

The system is bad because your house flooded and you didn't get anything because you didn't have flood insurance?

What, your heart isn't bleeding on that one?  So, should I have bear-insurance for the 1 in 14 million change that I get mauled by one?  And actually, we did have flood insurance, but the conditions allowed the insurance company to win.  Lawyers, they get you every time. 

The system is at fault because a friend stole the stuff you have him to store and didn't do anything proactive about $70k?

I contacted a lawyer.  I was told I could start a suit for the damages, but the costs would outweigh the returns.  The police did nothing, insurance did nothing (as usual). 

As for school, you could have dropped out and gone into trades or gone to community college or a school that would give you a full ride. You took a crappy job when something like tutoring 10 hours a week would have made you much more money.

You assume so much.  If you have all the answers, why aren't you on the cover of Forbes?  I did wind up going to a community college.  And as for "crappy job," would you say that to one of the burger-flippers whining for $15 an hour?  No?  Your shitty comments towards me are amazing examples of liberal logic. 

You had alternative choices and didn't take them. It's not the system's fault.

So did Shaquisha- she could have said "no" before needing her 7th abortion
So did every burger-flipper who demands $15/hr
So did everyone on welfare- they could have made decisions that could have avoided that situation
So did Grampa Joe who didn't save for retirement and now my SS fine goes to pay him

Thanks for proving my point for me. 

[Colgate_Toothpaste]

So, systems work to help those that need it?  Let's see...

Playing the cancer card won't work with me- my father lost his job and health insurance right when he was diagnosed with cancer because a liberal governor cut funding to his employer (a hospital).  He wound up suffering 4 major strokes last year, attributed to the cancer treatments and had no health insurance for the first time in decades.  He has been a hard working man his whole life, and never indulged in anything for himself.  What system helped him out?  Is it the same one that lets Shaquisha have her 7th abortion for free, or cover contraceptives for people who have no self restraint?  Who approves subsidy allocation?  Surely not I, or Shaquisha would have mandatory tubal ligation on her dime.

Reading the story that you've laid out, I can conclude that you've been through some unusually difficult events.  Your reaction makes you seem angry about this.  However, you state that the strength of your anecdotal evidence is important, so I have to ask about this "Shaquisha" story.  Do you know this person?  It seems unlikely.  This apparent strawman really diminishes the strength of your other stories.  I do not doubt them, but I don't really believe that you know this person.  You have been pretty careful with personal information (you've said so, earlier), so I would be surprised if you are divulging someone's name.  I am not trying to attack you, here, but I do want to point out that you damage your credibility by doing this.  I believe that this runs a big risk of derailing the thread. 
For full disclosure, I don't agree with your position on social programs, but I think that we can have a valuable discussion (and even argument) about them, as long as we don't get off track.

I didn't even scratch the surface.

"Shaquisha" is a fictional character I used to describe someone who is abusing a system while society "feels bad" for her.  In my mind, she was a 12' tall white Amazonian woman and she loves nutella.

[2lazy2retire]

So, systems work to help those that need it?  Let's see...

Playing the cancer card won't work with me- my father lost his job and health insurance right when he was diagnosed with cancer because a liberal governor cut funding to his employer (a hospital).  He wound up suffering 4 major strokes last year, attributed to the cancer treatments and had no health insurance for the first time in decades.  He has been a hard working man his whole life, and never indulged in anything for himself.  What system helped him out?  Is it the same one that lets Shaquisha have her 7th abortion for free, or cover contraceptives for people who have no self restraint?  Who approves subsidy allocation?  Surely not I, or Shaquisha would have mandatory tubal ligation on her dime.

Reading the story that you've laid out, I can conclude that you've been through some unusually difficult events.  Your reaction makes you seem angry about this.  However, you state that the strength of your anecdotal evidence is important, so I have to ask about this "Shaquisha" story.  Do you know this person?  It seems unlikely.  This apparent strawman really diminishes the strength of your other stories.  I do not doubt them, but I don't really believe that you know this person.  You have been pretty careful with personal information (you've said so, earlier), so I would be surprised if you are divulging someone's name.  I am not trying to attack you, here, but I do want to point out that you damage your credibility by doing this.  I believe that this runs a big risk of derailing the thread. 
For full disclosure, I don't agree with your position on social programs, but I think that we can have a valuable discussion (and even argument) about them, as long as we don't get off track.

I think Mr Whiter than White toothpaste man clearly set out his stall with his choice of name for his welfare queen

[Colgate_Toothpaste]

So, systems work to help those that need it?  Let's see...

Playing the cancer card won't work with me- my father lost his job and health insurance right when he was diagnosed with cancer because a liberal governor cut funding to his employer (a hospital).  He wound up suffering 4 major strokes last year, attributed to the cancer treatments and had no health insurance for the first time in decades.  He has been a hard working man his whole life, and never indulged in anything for himself.  What system helped him out?  Is it the same one that lets Shaquisha have her 7th abortion for free, or cover contraceptives for people who have no self restraint?  Who approves subsidy allocation?  Surely not I, or Shaquisha would have mandatory tubal ligation on her dime.

Reading the story that you've laid out, I can conclude that you've been through some unusually difficult events.  Your reaction makes you seem angry about this.  However, you state that the strength of your anecdotal evidence is important, so I have to ask about this "Shaquisha" story.  Do you know this person?  It seems unlikely.  This apparent strawman really diminishes the strength of your other stories.  I do not doubt them, but I don't really believe that you know this person.  You have been pretty careful with personal information (you've said so, earlier), so I would be surprised if you are divulging someone's name.  I am not trying to attack you, here, but I do want to point out that you damage your credibility by doing this.  I believe that this runs a big risk of derailing the thread. 
For full disclosure, I don't agree with your position on social programs, but I think that we can have a valuable discussion (and even argument) about them, as long as we don't get off track.

I think Mr Whiter than White toothpaste man clearly set out his stall with his choice of name for his welfare queen

I did it on purpose to see if someone would pull the race card off an assumption.  You're the winner of the day.

Well, it has been fun arguing with you all.  I'm gaining no benefit from these discussions, and it all stemmed from "I don't like being stolen from."

I said I was out before, and I kept coming back because I felt that certain individuals who attacked me for my views didn't quite understand where I was coming from.  Now I'm realizing that this forum is filled with the liberal mindset, which I do not subscribe to.

Goodbye

[2lazy2retire]

So, systems work to help those that need it?  Let's see...

Playing the cancer card won't work with me- my father lost his job and health insurance right when he was diagnosed with cancer because a liberal governor cut funding to his employer (a hospital).  He wound up suffering 4 major strokes last year, attributed to the cancer treatments and had no health insurance for the first time in decades.  He has been a hard working man his whole life, and never indulged in anything for himself.  What system helped him out?  Is it the same one that lets Shaquisha have her 7th abortion for free, or cover contraceptives for people who have no self restraint?  Who approves subsidy allocation?  Surely not I, or Shaquisha would have mandatory tubal ligation on her dime.

Reading the story that you've laid out, I can conclude that you've been through some unusually difficult events.  Your reaction makes you seem angry about this.  However, you state that the strength of your anecdotal evidence is important, so I have to ask about this "Shaquisha" story.  Do you know this person?  It seems unlikely.  This apparent strawman really diminishes the strength of your other stories.  I do not doubt them, but I don't really believe that you know this person.  You have been pretty careful with personal information (you've said so, earlier), so I would be surprised if you are divulging someone's name.  I am not trying to attack you, here, but I do want to point out that you damage your credibility by doing this.  I believe that this runs a big risk of derailing the thread. 
For full disclosure, I don't agree with your position on social programs, but I think that we can have a valuable discussion (and even argument) about them, as long as we don't get off track.

I think Mr Whiter than White toothpaste man clearly set out his stall with his choice of name for his welfare queen

I did it on purpose to see if someone would pull the race card off an assumption.  You're the winner of the day.

So you race bait,  someone calls you on it, you made what point exactly - you in addition to been a racist area a f@cking idiot.

[thd7t]

So, systems work to help those that need it?  Let's see...

Playing the cancer card won't work with me- my father lost his job and health insurance right when he was diagnosed with cancer because a liberal governor cut funding to his employer (a hospital).  He wound up suffering 4 major strokes last year, attributed to the cancer treatments and had no health insurance for the first time in decades.  He has been a hard working man his whole life, and never indulged in anything for himself.  What system helped him out?  Is it the same one that lets Shaquisha have her 7th abortion for free, or cover contraceptives for people who have no self restraint?  Who approves subsidy allocation?  Surely not I, or Shaquisha would have mandatory tubal ligation on her dime.

Reading the story that you've laid out, I can conclude that you've been through some unusually difficult events.  Your reaction makes you seem angry about this.  However, you state that the strength of your anecdotal evidence is important, so I have to ask about this "Shaquisha" story.  Do you know this person?  It seems unlikely.  This apparent strawman really diminishes the strength of your other stories.  I do not doubt them, but I don't really believe that you know this person.  You have been pretty careful with personal information (you've said so, earlier), so I would be surprised if you are divulging someone's name.  I am not trying to attack you, here, but I do want to point out that you damage your credibility by doing this.  I believe that this runs a big risk of derailing the thread. 
For full disclosure, I don't agree with your position on social programs, but I think that we can have a valuable discussion (and even argument) about them, as long as we don't get off track.

I didn't even scratch the surface.

"Shaquisha" is a fictional character I used to describe someone who is abusing a system while society "feels bad" for her.  In my mind, she was a 12' tall white Amazonian woman and she loves nutella.

I am just stating that I would prefer to take your story at face value, but your clear introduction of fiction makes that difficult.

[Colgate_Toothpaste]

So, systems work to help those that need it?  Let's see...

Playing the cancer card won't work with me- my father lost his job and health insurance right when he was diagnosed with cancer because a liberal governor cut funding to his employer (a hospital).  He wound up suffering 4 major strokes last year, attributed to the cancer treatments and had no health insurance for the first time in decades.  He has been a hard working man his whole life, and never indulged in anything for himself.  What system helped him out?  Is it the same one that lets Shaquisha have her 7th abortion for free, or cover contraceptives for people who have no self restraint?  Who approves subsidy allocation?  Surely not I, or Shaquisha would have mandatory tubal ligation on her dime.

Reading the story that you've laid out, I can conclude that you've been through some unusually difficult events.  Your reaction makes you seem angry about this.  However, you state that the strength of your anecdotal evidence is important, so I have to ask about this "Shaquisha" story.  Do you know this person?  It seems unlikely.  This apparent strawman really diminishes the strength of your other stories.  I do not doubt them, but I don't really believe that you know this person.  You have been pretty careful with personal information (you've said so, earlier), so I would be surprised if you are divulging someone's name.  I am not trying to attack you, here, but I do want to point out that you damage your credibility by doing this.  I believe that this runs a big risk of derailing the thread. 
For full disclosure, I don't agree with your position on social programs, but I think that we can have a valuable discussion (and even argument) about them, as long as we don't get off track.

I think Mr Whiter than White toothpaste man clearly set out his stall with his choice of name for his welfare queen

I did it on purpose to see if someone would pull the race card off an assumption.  You're the winner of the day.

So you race bait,  someone calls you on it, you made what point exactly - you in addition to been a racist area a f@cking idiot.

Yep, lovely forum you guys have here.

[2lazy2retire]

So, systems work to help those that need it?  Let's see...

Playing the cancer card won't work with me- my father lost his job and health insurance right when he was diagnosed with cancer because a liberal governor cut funding to his employer (a hospital).  He wound up suffering 4 major strokes last year, attributed to the cancer treatments and had no health insurance for the first time in decades.  He has been a hard working man his whole life, and never indulged in anything for himself.  What system helped him out?  Is it the same one that lets Shaquisha have her 7th abortion for free, or cover contraceptives for people who have no self restraint?  Who approves subsidy allocation?  Surely not I, or Shaquisha would have mandatory tubal ligation on her dime.

Reading the story that you've laid out, I can conclude that you've been through some unusually difficult events.  Your reaction makes you seem angry about this.  However, you state that the strength of your anecdotal evidence is important, so I have to ask about this "Shaquisha" story.  Do you know this person?  It seems unlikely.  This apparent strawman really diminishes the strength of your other stories.  I do not doubt them, but I don't really believe that you know this person.  You have been pretty careful with personal information (you've said so, earlier), so I would be surprised if you are divulging someone's name.  I am not trying to attack you, here, but I do want to point out that you damage your credibility by doing this.  I believe that this runs a big risk of derailing the thread. 
For full disclosure, I don't agree with your position on social programs, but I think that we can have a valuable discussion (and even argument) about them, as long as we don't get off track.

I think Mr Whiter than White toothpaste man clearly set out his stall with his choice of name for his welfare queen

I did it on purpose to see if someone would pull the race card off an assumption.  You're the winner of the day.

So you race bait,  someone calls you on it, you made what point exactly - you in addition to been a racist area a f@cking idiot.

Yep, lovely forum you guys have here.

For the most part - occasionally your type show up and the mask eventually slips

[starguru]

I think this thread is emblematic of why problems don't actually get solved -- it's because people talk past each other instead of to each other, and noone is willing to look at valid points the opposition has, as well as the fact that political positions are just so entrenched there is no room for compromise.

Anti SS and entitlement benefits apologists refuse to accept the fact that some people are not going to be able to make it on their own, and are going to need help.  Society has a responsibility to give people a shot and not let them die in the streets due to lack of starvation, treatable health issues, mental health issues, etc.  We don't live in a survival of the fittest jungle, and not everyone who receives entitlements is defrauding the hard working tax payers.    These types also aren't willing to entertain the notion that simple circumstances of birth can affect one's entire life.  Sure, some make it out of shitty circumstances, but not everyone can do that.

Liberal entitlements for all types refuse to accept the fact that people need to accept responsibility for their lives.  It's impossible to suggest that those who need entitlements can make changes that would affect their lives for the better -- nope, the system is against them, its not their fault, nothing can be done except raising taxes and giving stuff out for free.  The rich have some sort of responsibility to be happy about 50%+ tax rates while the needy have no responsibility to make smart choices that could help them improve their situations.  Oh, and there is no fraud going on, we shouldn't have borders, just more taxes, more spending, more entitlements will end up solving the worlds problems.

Each side of this debate has valid points, and if people would just work together to recognize that, and then give and take around those points, this entire mess could be fixed.

[MDM]

Each side of this debate has valid points, and if people would just work together to recognize that, and then give and take around those points, this entire mess could be fixed.

But that's so hard - it's so much easier to remain in one's comfort zone and regurgitate talking points.

Seriously, the people whom I most respect are ones who say "here is my opinion and the basis for it, and (this is the important part) these are the things that would cause me to change that opinion."  But that often takes more words than a normal post, causing glazed eyes in the soundbite-obsessed.

[mm1970]

To the bleeding heart liberals in this thread - try going from flat out broke and having zero support to maxing out the salary in your field and having everyone stick their hand out to you while lodging knives in your back.  Then, look at everyone who has their hand out and see how your perspective changes.

You know, I've been there.  I grew up poor, put myself through college (thank you US Navy).  Worked and saved and studied at night.  I'm frugal. 

Not a big partier or spender or vacationer.

The difference is - most of my friends weren't either.  Or my family, for that matter.

For sure, the friends who grew up middle class - well they spent more money.  And some of them are quite spendypants nowadays.  But they weren't crazy party people who never set aside money for savings, and you know what?  They all worked too, pretty hard at times.

When I see people in my personal life who need help, it's rarely people who were out partying (with the exception of maybe one sibling and his wife).

It's the hard-working college roommate and her equally hardworking husband.  Wow, their history has a lot of parallels with kathryn's.  Even down to the 3 kids and the SAHM thing.  Except it diverged with a disability that doesn't allow the ex-roomie to work. And because we was a SAHM, she doesn't actually get disability.  However they did get food stamps for 6 months when her husband was unemployed due the economic downturn.  And they all lost weight (even if they had none to lose), even though they have chickens, goats, and a garden.

It's the friend who had worked for 30 years when she got breast cancer.  "Pre-existing condition" anyone?  Thank god for the ACA.  People who have worked and had medical coverage their whole lives.

That's why I believe in a safety net, and I'm willing to pay for it.  (That doesn't mean I don't believe in personal responsibility too!)

[Cassie]

I have spent my life working in social services -first as a social worker & then helping people with disabilities re-enter the work force. Some people are victims of their own choices BUT many are not. Get in a bad car accident-get paralyzed from the neck down & then say that you aren't working because you are lazy. Sure some of these people are eventually able to obtain skills to return to work, etc but not without a lot of help to get there. Also if you find yourself in this situation you better be smart enough to get a college degree otherwise you will not be employable. Life is not black or white-just shades of gray.

[coppertop]

After 20 years of marriage, my first husband abandoned me and the kids - quit his executive job and announced that now it was my turn to take care of the kids; moved out and pretty much dared me to do something about it.  I was a SAHM at the time and had a hard time getting someone to give me a chance.  My first job was $10 an hour as a temp.  Needless to say, I did not make much money that year, and when I prepared my taxes, I was amazed to find out I was getting more than $5,000 "back" when I had not paid that much in.  Since for the prior 25 years or so my family had paid plenty of taxes into the system, I did not feel bad about accepting the money, and it was the only time I ever needed that hand up.  Over the years I found better and better jobs and today I have a very good job.  That "handout" allowed me to take care of my kids that year.  All my kids are now productive citizens today, college graduates, employed and homeowners.  Not everyone who receives an "entitlement" has fallen on hard times because they are lazy or stupid or both.  Sometimes sh*t just happens to them. 

[NICE!]

So one of the people posting pretty blatant boilerplate is finally revealed to be race-baiting? Shocking. He knew exactly what he was doing and it wasn't just the name. "Welfare queen" itself is a pretty loaded term.