Small SUV or Minivan for Family of 4?

[wageslave23]

We currently have an Equinox that's dying. We have a two year old daughter and another on the way. We're trying to decide between a Rav 4 and Sienna. The cost difference all factors included is about $800 more per year for the minivan. I'm thinking the Rav4 would be fine since it's the same as our Equinox and can fit a stroller in the back and two car seats. My wife thinks the minivan will be more convenient getting little kids in and out of and also in case we are hauling other people at times.  Anybody else with a small family have an opinion? If the running costs were equal I'd say sure let's go with the minivan, but I'm not sure how much the added convenience is worth.  I also don't want to regret pinching pennies and wish we had bought a minivan for the marginal additional cost. We plan to buy new and keep either one for 15-20 yrs.

[MrFancypants]

Minivan. We have a Honda Odyssey which was worth it for the sliding doors alone… it’s a lot easier to buckle the kids in than contorting around a hinged door. With the back seats down the stroller just stays in the back with more than enough space left for our emergency kid supplies and our monthly Costco run.

[englishteacheralex]

We have a family of four and have been really happy with our 2012 Toyota Sienna, which we bought used in 2021. It's super versatile:

1. Can fit big hauls such as furniture from Facebook Marketplace or Home Depot lumber
2. Makes car pooling easy
3. Sliding doors are really helpful, especially in tight parking situations
4. Can fit surfboards and almost infinite beach gear in the back, no need to use roof racks
5. If it's rainy when you're car camping, you can fit two people in the back and have a very comfortable sleep (this has come up a couple of times, actually)

[reeshau]

Minivan.

We went from a Chevy Trailblazer to a Chrysler Pacifca.  Minivans have amazing storage for little kids and accessories.  And the power sliding door is something DS (now 8; 6 at the time of purchase) was comfortable fully handling himself, where a regular door was too heavy and too hard to judge the next car over, if parking spaces were narrow or they were off-center.

Why are your operating costs higher?  Are you presuming spending the same amount on the purchase?  Or are you specifying same year / similar mileage?  Minivans were definitely on he outs when manufacturers were rationing production, but it still surprises me an SUV would come out favorable.

And if it's something you are curious about, think about a hybrid.  We L-O-V-E our hybrid minivan!  The only real downside is that it can't tow.  (CVT)

[wageslave23]

Minivan.

We went from a Chevy Trailblazer to a Chrysler Pacifca.  Minivans have amazing storage for little kids and accessories.  And the power sliding door is something DS (now 8; 6 at the time of purchase) was comfortable fully handling himself, where a regular door was too heavy and too hard to judge the next car over, if parking spaces were narrow or they were off-center.

Why are your operating costs higher?  Are you presuming spending the same amount on the purchase?  Or are you specifying same year / similar mileage?  Minivans were definitely on he outs when manufacturers were rationing production, but it still surprises me an SUV would come out favorable.

And if it's something you are curious about, think about a hybrid.  We L-O-V-E our hybrid minivan!  The only real downside is that it can't tow.  (CVT)

Yes the minivan is a hybrid because all new siennas are hybrids.  The only reason my annual cost calculation higher is because the initial purchase price of a sienna is $40k compared to Rav 4 which is $32k.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

The sliding doors are life-changing! We love our minivan. Before we got it (when our third child was born), I didn't like that we couldn't really offer anyone a ride. My older kids (preteens) love having more room to spread out and plenty of leg room.

Drawbacks to the minivan:
It is harder to park because of its size
It is higher off the ground than my old car- I am very short and kinda wish I had sprung for the rotating car seat for the toddler. I'm not sure if the RAV4 is much lower, though?
We do not drive enough to justify the hybrid feature from an environmental perspective

FWIW I get about 31 miles to the gallon in the Sienna- almost exactly the same as our other car, which is a 2011 Honda Fit.

[Radagast]

Minivan. Speaking for myself, the minivan allowed my non-driving MIL to come help with child care and cooking and move with us to a new city 12 hours away, plus a trial month in the city to make sure it was the right choice. This in turn enabled us to both work full time and increase our pay at a new location. Any reasonable SUV would not have been able to do that, so the minivan paid for itself very quickly and will likely pay for itself in an absolute sense within 5 years. Also my son started opening the door to get in himself at 20 months (which is not convenient or a time saver but he insists).

My ranking of minivans is approximately:
Odyssey: the magic seats are ideal for family use
Gas Pacifica: The folding seats are perfect for non family hauling, but expensive to operate with greater deprecation so buy used
PHEV Pacifica: If you are looking at a more luxurious van anyway and drive 20-30 miles 5+ days per week its perfect, but otherwise less configurable than others
New Sienna: The base model is cheap and reliable, but other wise its not as nice or useful as the others, so either get the base model or a used previous generation model which seems better
Carnival: ??? I never figured out how its supposed to compete in the minivan market.

[Chris Pascale]

When we were just 4 in 2005 we bought my mom's 2000 Caravan for $5,000 - a price we settled on when my dad was exhaustively trying to convince me to, 'just take it!' and I insisted I had to pay something for it. $150/month at 0% interest.

If you can get a deal like this, I recommend it!

That van was so awesome. One summer we went to Myrtle Beach, removed the bench seats for sitting around the campfire, and made a bed out of the back with a box fan to keep it cool.

Edited to Add: Having a van allowed me to bring my kids and their friends out on fun outings. Last year the van allowed for 8 of us to go into NYC when my FIL came into town. We could have taken the train, but it was cheaper and offered more flexibility to be able to drive. What if you're looking to take a trip and want to offer each kid to take a friend or cousin? With a van, the logistics are already built in?

Having said this, you can rent a van for a week. Or a day, etc. And maybe that's an option to exercise right now.

[Sanitary Stache]

We have three kids and a Honda pilot. I often wish it was a minivan. The only advantage to the pilot is that it has higher clearance and all wheel drive. The clearance makes it possible to drive in more fields and on more muddy roads, but I’d rather not do either of those things really so I’m not sure if the pilot has any advantage.

I would trade it for a hybrid minivan if I could make an even exchange.

[wageslave23]

The sliding doors are life-changing! We love our minivan. Before we got it (when our third child was born), I didn't like that we couldn't really offer anyone a ride. My older kids (preteens) love having more room to spread out and plenty of leg room.

Drawbacks to the minivan:
It is harder to park because of its size
It is higher off the ground than my old car- I am very short and kinda wish I had sprung for the rotating car seat for the toddler. I'm not sure if the RAV4 is much lower, though?
We do not drive enough to justify the hybrid feature from an environmental perspective

FWIW I get about 31 miles to the gallon in the Sienna- almost exactly the same as our other car, which is a 2011 Honda Fit.

That's a good data point. I was wondering what kind of gas mileage to expect in the real world. Thanks

[GilesMM]

Family = minivan.

[reeshau]

The sliding doors are life-changing! We love our minivan. Before we got it (when our third child was born), I didn't like that we couldn't really offer anyone a ride. My older kids (preteens) love having more room to spread out and plenty of leg room.

Drawbacks to the minivan:
It is harder to park because of its size
It is higher off the ground than my old car- I am very short and kinda wish I had sprung for the rotating car seat for the toddler. I'm not sure if the RAV4 is much lower, though?
We do not drive enough to justify the hybrid feature from an environmental perspective

FWIW I get about 31 miles to the gallon in the Sienna- almost exactly the same as our other car, which is a 2011 Honda Fit.

That's a good data point. I was wondering what kind of gas mileage to expect in the real world. Thanks

My Pacifica gets about 32 mpg on gas.  When not on road trips, I'm disappointed if the average isn't above 50. (probably running into downtown Houston, which is battery there, gas back, if I can't find a charger)  To show my EcoNerdom, my record is 65.

[Taran Wanderer]

Another vote for minivan. Best versatility and overall value in cars.  Initial cost, mileage, and driveability of a car, hauling capacity of a truck. Your kids will eventually have friends, and you’ll be able to haul 6, 7, or 8 in a pinch. Our Odyssey has been fantastic for ten years.

[Blue Skies]

We had a CRV pre-kids and it was great.  Stuffed to the gills occasionally, but it worked.  We now have 2 kids and an Odyssey.  Quite a number of times I have had 6-7 people in the van because the kids brought friends along, or we were visiting my parents and all going somewhere. 

For adults in the backseat - much more comfortable in the van.

Cargo space - I don't know how we could do long road trips or big camping trips in a small SUV.  Plenty of room in the van.

With young kids - the sliding doors are awesome.  Once the kids start opening the doors themselves, you always worry about them hitting the car next to you in parking lots.  Nothing to worry about with a sliding door.

The big plus to the Odyssey for us was fitting 2 carseats plus an adult in the middle row comfortably.  It saved us on long road trips with the adult in the back to entertain the kids.  We do full day drives several times a year to visit family.

[MrFancypants]

The sliding doors are life-changing! We love our minivan. Before we got it (when our third child was born), I didn't like that we couldn't really offer anyone a ride. My older kids (preteens) love having more room to spread out and plenty of leg room.

Drawbacks to the minivan:
It is harder to park because of its size
It is higher off the ground than my old car- I am very short and kinda wish I had sprung for the rotating car seat for the toddler. I'm not sure if the RAV4 is much lower, though?
We do not drive enough to justify the hybrid feature from an environmental perspective

FWIW I get about 31 miles to the gallon in the Sienna- almost exactly the same as our other car, which is a 2011 Honda Fit.

That's a good data point. I was wondering what kind of gas mileage to expect in the real world. Thanks

Our Odyssey gets about 23 mpg around town and 31 on the highway. Definitely a weak point of the Honda but overall we liked it the most and at the time we bought it I don’t believe the Sienna was offered in a hybrid.

[Radagast]

The sliding doors are life-changing! We love our minivan. Before we got it (when our third child was born), I didn't like that we couldn't really offer anyone a ride. My older kids (preteens) love having more room to spread out and plenty of leg room.

Drawbacks to the minivan:
It is harder to park because of its size
It is higher off the ground than my old car- I am very short and kinda wish I had sprung for the rotating car seat for the toddler. I'm not sure if the RAV4 is much lower, though?
We do not drive enough to justify the hybrid feature from an environmental perspective

FWIW I get about 31 miles to the gallon in the Sienna- almost exactly the same as our other car, which is a 2011 Honda Fit.

That's a good data point. I was wondering what kind of gas mileage to expect in the real world. Thanks

My Pacifica gets about 32 mpg on gas.  When not on road trips, I'm disappointed if the average isn't above 50. (probably running into downtown Houston, which is battery there, gas back, if I can't find a charger)  To show my EcoNerdom, my record is 65.

I average ~45 MPGe, with a range of 22MPGe-67MPGe. Probably because I use the heater more, and in those cases I struggle to keep the MPGe up. Also it seems like whenever it goes over 50 we suddenly go on a road trip or something.

[zolotiyeruki]

Minivan all the way.  We bought our first (a 2001 Odyssey) when we had two kids, and were planning on more.  It made road trips *way* more comfortable, and the practicality is undeniable.  I once fit an entire *bunk* of 2x4's (that's about 300) in it. We only sold it because eventually we were expecting our sixth kid and needed an 8-seater vehicle.  What did we get to replace it?  A 2006 Odyssey.  That '06 Ody now has about 225k miles on it, so what did we get two years ago for DW to drive?  Another 2006 Odyssey.  In my opinion, that generation is the peak of functionality beyond which automobiles hit a wall of diminishing returns and feature bloat.

I was super excited about the hybrid Siennas...until I test drove one.  In my opinion, Toyota missed the mark by a mile.  As great as the hybrid drivetrain is, the new Siennas are a gigantic step backward in functional usability.  It used to be that minivans gave up panache in exchange for massive practicality, and now the Sienna has given up on the practicality as well.

[wageslave23]

Minivan all the way.  We bought our first (a 2001 Odyssey) when we had two kids, and were planning on more.  It made road trips *way* more comfortable, and the practicality is undeniable.  I once fit an entire *bunk* of 2x4's (that's about 300) in it. We only sold it because eventually we were expecting our sixth kid and needed an 8-seater vehicle.  What did we get to replace it?  A 2006 Odyssey.  That '06 Ody now has about 225k miles on it, so what did we get two years ago for DW to drive?  Another 2006 Odyssey.  In my opinion, that generation is the peak of functionality beyond which automobiles hit a wall of diminishing returns and feature bloat.

I was super excited about the hybrid Siennas...until I test drove one.  In my opinion, Toyota missed the mark by a mile.  As great as the hybrid drivetrain is, the new Siennas are a gigantic step backward in functional usability.  It used to be that minivans gave up panache in exchange for massive practicality, and now the Sienna has given up on the practicality as well.

Can you elaborate on the sienna loss of practicality? I test drove one and it seemed nice. Although I wish it had a little more high end power.

[curious_george]

When we had a family of four we drove everyone around in a metro that seats 4 people.

When we had a family of five we drove around in a Yaris that seats five people.

Now that we have a family of six we drive around in a minivan as a family or the Yaris when we are running errands with less than six people.

If money is not a consideration, I would choose the minivan over anything else for a family. You really can't beat it.

[zolotiyeruki]

Minivan all the way.  We bought our first (a 2001 Odyssey) when we had two kids, and were planning on more.  It made road trips *way* more comfortable, and the practicality is undeniable.  I once fit an entire *bunk* of 2x4's (that's about 300) in it. We only sold it because eventually we were expecting our sixth kid and needed an 8-seater vehicle.  What did we get to replace it?  A 2006 Odyssey.  That '06 Ody now has about 225k miles on it, so what did we get two years ago for DW to drive?  Another 2006 Odyssey.  In my opinion, that generation is the peak of functionality beyond which automobiles hit a wall of diminishing returns and feature bloat.

I was super excited about the hybrid Siennas...until I test drove one.  In my opinion, Toyota missed the mark by a mile.  As great as the hybrid drivetrain is, the new Siennas are a gigantic step backward in functional usability.  It used to be that minivans gave up panache in exchange for massive practicality, and now the Sienna has given up on the practicality as well.

Can you elaborate on the sienna loss of practicality? I test drove one and it seemed nice. Although I wish it had a little more high end power.

The "in my opinion" link in my post goes to my previous comments on why we were really disappointed in the new Siennas.

[lucenzo11]

+1 to minivan. I was 14 when my parents bought an Odyssey and as a frugal teenager I didn't understand why they wanted it/needed it. After the first family vacation where I wasn't sandwiched between bags for four hours, I was sold. There were so many trips and carpools where having the extra room was great. Moving furniture, etc. It was still funny (inefficient) seeing my dad drive it to work by himself most days, but on the days when we did need the space, it was totally worth it. Moving to college was the icing on the cake when we could load it up with everything with plenty of room to spare. The sliding doors are clutch. Getting into the third row is easier. If you'll use the functionality, minivan is the way to go.

[LD_TAndK]

I'm mulling over a similar question right now, but also want to go fully electric. Essentially can we get what we need out of an EV SUV like the model Y? Or should we buy an old minivan to bridge the gap for a few years until hopefully someone is producing a good EV minivan option? What if that never comes?

[reeshau]

I'm mulling over a similar question right now, but also want to go fully electric. Essentially can we get what we need out of an EV SUV like the model Y? Or should we buy an old minivan to bridge the gap for a few years until hopefully someone is producing a good EV minivan option? What if that never comes?

How are you looking to use it?  Despite taking one long road trip a year, my miles in my PHEV are 85% electric.  No need to wait or pay up for that last 15%.

[MrFancypants]

I'm mulling over a similar question right now, but also want to go fully electric. Essentially can we get what we need out of an EV SUV like the model Y? Or should we buy an old minivan to bridge the gap for a few years until hopefully someone is producing a good EV minivan option? What if that never comes?

I’d say there’s a strong chance that we’ll see an EV minivan at some point. I think it comes down to if you believe you need or want the cargo flexibility that comes with a minivan. For my family that extra space combined with the sliding doors are invaluable luxuries worth the extra fuel costs. We got along ok with a Camry for years but after we got the Odyssey… aside from other minivans I can’t imagine a better general purpose family car.

I’d still love something like a Bolt for the sake of short trip efficiency but at that point I’d feel like I were hoarding cars, so I just put up with the occasional inefficiency of using a minivan for errands.

[zolotiyeruki]

It was still funny (inefficient) seeing my dad drive it to work by himself most days, but on the days when we did need the space, it was totally worth it.

LOL, I'm that dad nowadays, driving the old minivan to work. :)  Thank heavens it's only a few miles.

I'm mulling over a similar question right now, but also want to go fully electric. Essentially can we get what we need out of an EV SUV like the model Y? Or should we buy an old minivan to bridge the gap for a few years until hopefully someone is producing a good EV minivan option? What if that never comes?

IMO it depends on what your goal is.  If your goal is to minimize TCO, then a used minivan is going to win out over a Model Y unless you're driving insane numbers of miles.  If you're looking to minimize environmental impact, it's more of a toss-up--you have to balance fossil fuel usage vs the impact of mining all those minerals for the batteries.

The third option--plug-in hybrid or straight hybrid--might be the goldilocks option.  The battery in a Tesla is roughly 10x the size of the battery in the Prius Prime.  Toyota will argue (and I believe they have a point) that replacing ten ICE cars with hybrids will reduce fossil fuel consumption a whole lot more than replacing a single ICE car with a Tesla.

[Chris Pascale]

Family = minivan.

Where's the Nobel Prize committee on this?

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Minivan all the way.  We bought our first (a 2001 Odyssey) when we had two kids, and were planning on more.  It made road trips *way* more comfortable, and the practicality is undeniable.  I once fit an entire *bunk* of 2x4's (that's about 300) in it. We only sold it because eventually we were expecting our sixth kid and needed an 8-seater vehicle.  What did we get to replace it?  A 2006 Odyssey.  That '06 Ody now has about 225k miles on it, so what did we get two years ago for DW to drive?  Another 2006 Odyssey.  In my opinion, that generation is the peak of functionality beyond which automobiles hit a wall of diminishing returns and feature bloat.

I was super excited about the hybrid Siennas...until I test drove one.  In my opinion, Toyota missed the mark by a mile.  As great as the hybrid drivetrain is, the new Siennas are a gigantic step backward in functional usability.  It used to be that minivans gave up panache in exchange for massive practicality, and now the Sienna has given up on the practicality as well.

Can you elaborate on the sienna loss of practicality? I test drove one and it seemed nice. Although I wish it had a little more high end power.

We are happy with ours, but reviewing the previous post- we are NOT big DIYers. We do appreciate that we can haul all three kids AND two bikes (by folding down the back seats and packing the kids three across).

[patchyfacialhair]

I have a minivan with 2 kids aged 6 and 3 and another on the way. Current car is a 2017 Sienna AWD we purchased used in 2020/2021 (can't remember)

It just makes sense:
1) Sliding Doors.
2) Removable/foldable seats for flexibility.
3) As big as a Tahoe but more practical and better MPG with still a ton of power. Don't get me wrong though, my MPG still stinks, i average about 19-20 (for mostly in-town driving). My car before this was an 03 Camry so 35 was what I was used to.
4) AWD, I live on the front range in Colorado, just like MMM (at least until he moved to AZ), and for the rare snow events, it does really well even with just all-season tires.

Drawbacks:
1) It's not cool at all. But that's not what we're here for, right!?
2) Did I mention it's not cool? Even from frugal family/friends we'll catch the occasional joke.

I think once the kids are older (maybe in about 8 years), we'll go for a mid-sized SUV like the Grand Highlander or Lexus TX. If we continue making the same money we do today, paying cash for a newer one of those will be a drop in the bucket. Let's hope the Sienna lasts that long! It does more than 90% of my household mileage.

[Just Joe]

When we had a family of four we drove everyone around in a metro that seats 4 people.

When we had a family of five we drove around in a Yaris that seats five people.

Now that we have a family of six we drive around in a minivan as a family or the Yaris when we are running errands with less than six people.

If money is not a consideration, I would choose the minivan over anything else for a family. You really can't beat it.

In 1999 we bought a new CRV. In 2023 we drive the same CRV. Admittedly we have a larger, nicer car for trips now but the CRV continues to meet our local trip needs for x1-4 people.

For hauling x6 people long distance a minivan is superior. We have a midsize SUV best suited for x1-4 people long distance and really like it. There are jumpseats for two more people perfect for day trips at most b/c little room for luggage then. Otherwise we have extra space for dog and cargo.

But, sliding doors win hauling x6 people often.

For hauling hardware store materials a utility trailer gets my vote b/c you aren't at risk of wrecking the interior with paint or scuffing interior plastic with plywood. Our current utility trailer is a decade old. Look up "Space Trailer" for a nice solution. Our trailer is a different Danish brand n/a in the USA these days.

[Just Joe]

Be sure to seat test the second and third row seats. I've rented minivans and SUVs (which were really minivans w/o sliding doors) that had terrible passenger seats.

If you are hauling little kids perhaps it doesn't matter too much. If you are hauling older teens and adults - test those seats.

I rode in a GM FWD mid-size SUV whose second row seats were terrible IMHO. Fortunately we were just going across town and back. A many-hours road trip would be a no-go situation. 

Perhaps GM put more stock in the folding feature than the comfort of those seats. I also rented a Ford Transit van for work once and the passenger seats were very narrow. Other Transit vans had different seats.

[Radagast]

^, I haven't tried it, but I've read the Waste Management Bagster is a reasonably cheap yet durable solution that fits perfectly in the back of a minivan to protect it from whatever you are hauling. https://www.wm.com/us/en/home/bagster

Home Depot link if you don't have WM
https://www.homedepot.com/p/WM-Bagster-Dumpster-in-a-Bag-Holds-up-to-3-300-lb-775-658/202228840

[MrFancypants]

Be sure to seat test the second and third row seats. I've rented minivans and SUVs (which were really minivans w/o sliding doors) that had terrible passenger seats.

If you are hauling little kids perhaps it doesn't matter too much. If you are hauling older teens and adults - test those seats.

I rode in a GM FWD mid-size SUV whose second row seats were terrible IMHO. Fortunately we were just going across town and back. A many-hours road trip would be a no-go situation. 

Perhaps GM put more stock in the folding feature than the comfort of those seats. I also rented a Ford Transit van for work once and the passenger seats were very narrow. Other Transit vans had different seats.

When we were shopping and I was reading reviews one of the things that stuck with me was that the Pacifica’s second row seats were reported to be not very comfortable, and they fold flat, so there may be something to the observation that folding seats are less comfortable. That said the third row in my Honda folds flat and the passengers I’ve had back there said they were perfectly comfortable.

[reeshau]

Be sure to seat test the second and third row seats. I've rented minivans and SUVs (which were really minivans w/o sliding doors) that had terrible passenger seats.

If you are hauling little kids perhaps it doesn't matter too much. If you are hauling older teens and adults - test those seats.

I rode in a GM FWD mid-size SUV whose second row seats were terrible IMHO. Fortunately we were just going across town and back. A many-hours road trip would be a no-go situation. 

Perhaps GM put more stock in the folding feature than the comfort of those seats. I also rented a Ford Transit van for work once and the passenger seats were very narrow. Other Transit vans had different seats.

When we were shopping and I was reading reviews one of the things that stuck with me was that the Pacifica’s second row seats were reported to be not very comfortable, and they fold flat, so there may be something to the observation that folding seats are less comfortable. That said the third row in my Honda folds flat and the passengers I’ve had back there said they were perfectly comfortable.

Maybe that's a plus for the Pacifica hybrid?  You lose stow 'n go, because that's where the battery is.  So, the second row are also captain's chairs.  We were not looking for hybrid when we were shopping in '21, but I can't recall a significantly different feeling to the 2nd row seats.  You do also lose the option for the 8th seat (middle seat in second row) for the same reason.

[daverobev]

Small car. Corolla, Civic, Elantra, whatever.

Four people? Children don't stay in big seats that long (really - time passes quickly).

Do you regularly need to carry 6-7 people? Do you need to tow things?

SUV = brick. Take a car, put it on stilts and increase its drag. Minivan = larger brick.

Smaller vehicle generally means lower maintenance, lower fuel costs, often cheaper insurance.

[zolotiyeruki]

I do 98% of the maintenance and repair on our vehicles. The only way the vans are more expensive to maintain is because they take 1qt more oil, the tires are a bit larger and more expensive, etc. Other than that, they all have the same number of tires, the same maintenance intervals, etc.

[Radagast]

Fair point that for $25,000 you could be cruising around luxuriously in an Elantra hybrid getting 55 mpg, and little meaningful different from a RAV4 except maybe a little ground clearance which is probably never needed. It should really be Elantra (or whatever) vs minivan, and there are some real cost differences in this comparison.

I don't think maintenance or insurance costs will be much different. I can say when I switched from an '09 Civic Coupe to a '22 Pacifica fuel costs plummeted too, but that's not comparing like to like. Most of the savings are in the purchase price.

[economista]

Small car. Corolla, Civic, Elantra, whatever.

Four people? Children don't stay in big seats that long (really - time passes quickly).

Do you regularly need to carry 6-7 people? Do you need to tow things?

SUV = brick. Take a car, put it on stilts and increase its drag. Minivan = larger brick.

Smaller vehicle generally means lower maintenance, lower fuel costs, often cheaper insurance.

This is really family-specific. Lots of families have needs that can't be met with a sedan, even with only 2 children. My husband is tall with very long legs. He is also blind and must sit in the passenger seat, and we could not find a sedan where he could sit and we could have a rear-facing car seat behind him. His legs were smashed into the dashboard in every one we tried. It wasn't physically possible. We also couldn't fit a double-stroller in the trunk of our sedan, which would have negatively impacted our lifestyle. We like to drive to parks and trails and then put the girls in the stroller for long walks.

We wanted a minivan but couldn't find one used in our price range. We ended up going to Carmax and just going down the line, putting our daughter's car seat behind the passenger seat until we found one where my husband could fit into the seat in front. We ended up with a small SUV. We paid $19k, in cash, for a 1 year old model and we get 30+ mpg. I'm perfectly happy with that.

[midweststache]

We have a minivan (mid-2010s Kia Sedona) and love it.

When we bought the car, I mentioned to a colleague that we'd bought a used minivan and she was HORRIFIED. I'm paraphrasing but it was something the (implied derogatory) effect of "Wow, Midweststache, leaning into that hashtag momlife hard, huh?" However, most men I talk to LOVE minivans and have no issues with them; it's only women I've found who have a gut-wrenching reaction to owning one. I'm not sure if it's a status thing? A fear of turning into our own mothers, or losing our identity to #momlife? (For instance, my sister - who also had two kids - will not even entertain the idea of a minivan because she thinks it will make her look lame.)

Anyway, despite whatever cultural baggage comes with it, I'm a minivan convert for kiddos. We have our couch-cuddly dog who comes with us on road trips to visit our extended family, and the minivan has been clutch for including FIDO in those trips. We love the storage capacity and that we can fit visiting grandparents into the car and go places around our city. (We're a one-car family.)

[wageslave23]

Small car. Corolla, Civic, Elantra, whatever.

Four people? Children don't stay in big seats that long (really - time passes quickly).

Do you regularly need to carry 6-7 people? Do you need to tow things?

SUV = brick. Take a car, put it on stilts and increase its drag. Minivan = larger brick.

Smaller vehicle generally means lower maintenance, lower fuel costs, often cheaper insurance.

Small cars do not fit rear facing carseats.  Also I would choose to be a shut in before buying another hyundai or kia.

[daverobev]

Small cars do not fit rear facing carseats.

Rubbish. We had them in our Civic and then Elantra.

To all the others - sure there can be specific reasons to buy something larger which is fine, but those are the exception not the rule..

To maintenance costs - more oil, larger tires, more fuel, more spark plugs, heavier duty bushings, suspension, transmission, everything has to be larger to deal with the extra weight. With the caveat that a shit small car will be more expensive than a good larger one.

[2Birds1Stone]

There is something incredible about being able to throw 4 bicycles and 4 people into a car without taking everything apart. Ditto for being able to remove the seats and provide a place to sleep on a car camping trip. A lot of SUV's have extremely long/wide wheelbases but the inside of the cabin is often relatively small. Our current vehicle is an early 2000's Chevy Astro that has been humming along with 150k miles and get's ~21 mpg highway on regular gas. We can fit 4x8 foot plywood in the back and it has room for all of the activities.

As uncool as they are, I will likely end up with another minivan down the line.......but maybe a newer hybrid Sienna when they are ~5 years old and ~$15-20k.

[MrFancypants]

Small car. Corolla, Civic, Elantra, whatever.

Four people? Children don't stay in big seats that long (really - time passes quickly).

Do you regularly need to carry 6-7 people? Do you need to tow things?

SUV = brick. Take a car, put it on stilts and increase its drag. Minivan = larger brick.

Smaller vehicle generally means lower maintenance, lower fuel costs, often cheaper insurance.

Small cars do not fit rear facing carseats.  Also I would choose to be a shut in before buying another hyundai or kia.

My Volkswagen GTI (Golf) fits two rear facing car seats. Thankfully both of my kids are front facing now. I don’t recommend it though… not fun to do but works in a pinch.

Our Odyssey costs about the same in maintenance, maybe even a little less, and while being a large vehicle doesn’t drive like a brick. On the road it feels a lot smaller than it is; very nice handling car.

[MrFancypants]

Small car. Corolla, Civic, Elantra, whatever.

Four people? Children don't stay in big seats that long (really - time passes quickly).

Do you regularly need to carry 6-7 people? Do you need to tow things?

SUV = brick. Take a car, put it on stilts and increase its drag. Minivan = larger brick.

Smaller vehicle generally means lower maintenance, lower fuel costs, often cheaper insurance.

The only thing that costs more with a larger vehicle are fuel costs.  Maintenance is the same, insurance is the same, my large brick of a Honda even handles like a much smaller car than it is even if it's not a sports car.

A larger vehicle is a luxury.  Not having to worry about seating when family flies into town, or being able to keep a stroller and extra children supplies permanently in the back, or not having to rent a vehicle to buy things from the hardware store or move small furniture (I've fit a queen size bed in the back of my minivan), are all luxuries and the kicker is that it didn't cost a lot more than the equivalent compact car.

Maybe things are different in France but in the USA large vehicles are really cheap to buy and own.

[Jon Bon]

If the running costs were equal I'd say sure let's go with the minivan

They ARE equal. If your letting that small amount of money mess with improving your quality of life I would think you need to examine your relationship with money.

Nothing is better for a road trip then a minivan. If you ever drive with the kids on VK minivans are the best. Our personal experience: 2011 POS Dodge Grand Caravan > 2022 loaded Kia Telluride

The minivan is superior in every single way except for maybe ego!

[Paper Chaser]

Small cars do not fit rear facing carseats.

Rubbish. We had them in our Civic and then Elantra.

To all the others - sure there can be specific reasons to buy something larger which is fine, but those are the exception not the rule..

To maintenance costs - more oil, larger tires, more fuel, more spark plugs, heavier duty bushings, suspension, transmission, everything has to be larger to deal with the extra weight. With the caveat that a shit small car will be more expensive than a good larger one.

Hybridization changes things quite a bit, and has allowed the new Sienna to compete with or even surpass standard ICE small cars in efficiency:
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=47343&id=47339&id=47252


The current all ICE Corolla has a 2.0L 4 cylinder engine and is rated for 33mpg city/41hwy/35 combined (EPA drive cycle)
The current Sienna minivan is only available as a hybrid with a 2.5L 4 cylinder engine and is rated for 36 mpg city/36 hwy/36 combined

Same oil capacity. Same number of spark plugs. The Sienna's hybrid powertrain is ruthlessly reliable in other Toyota models, often needing less frequent maintenance than standard ICE powertrains.

Even if you were to compare the hybrid Sienna to the most efficient hybrid Corolla, the cost per mile difference is around $0.03/mi in favor of the Corolla hybrid. That's pretty negligible for somebody spending $30k+ on a new vehicle.

[wageslave23]

Small cars do not fit rear facing carseats.

Rubbish. We had them in our Civic and then Elantra.

To all the others - sure there can be specific reasons to buy something larger which is fine, but those are the exception not the rule..

To maintenance costs - more oil, larger tires, more fuel, more spark plugs, heavier duty bushings, suspension, transmission, everything has to be larger to deal with the extra weight. With the caveat that a shit small car will be more expensive than a good larger one.

I guess I need to clarify.  They do not fit comfortably for us.  We have an equinox and sonata, the sonata being one of the roomiest sedans I've ever been in and it's not that much room in the passenger seat with our rear facing car seat. The rav4 fits about the same, so it's doable.  We are not considering going smaller in order to save a few thousand dollars over 15 years.

[wageslave23]

If the running costs were equal I'd say sure let's go with the minivan

They ARE equal. If your letting that small amount of money mess with improving your quality of life I would think you need to examine your relationship with money.

Nothing is better for a road trip then a minivan. If you ever drive with the kids on VK minivans are the best. Our personal experience: 2011 POS Dodge Grand Caravan > 2022 loaded Kia Telluride

The minivan is superior in every single way except for maybe ego!

Running costs was the wrong term. I meant imputed interest. 

[Just Joe]

^, I haven't tried it, but I've read the Waste Management Bagster is a reasonably cheap yet durable solution that fits perfectly in the back of a minivan to protect it from whatever you are hauling. https://www.wm.com/us/en/home/bagster

Home Depot link if you don't have WM
https://www.homedepot.com/p/WM-Bagster-Dumpster-in-a-Bag-Holds-up-to-3-300-lb-775-658/202228840

Thank you. That is a good idea. I have done something similar with Harbor Freight moving blankets. Those blankets are cheap but they don't last too long. 

[StarBright]

+1 to minivan. I was 14 when my parents bought an Odyssey and as a frugal teenager I didn't understand why they wanted it/needed it. After the first family vacation where I wasn't sandwiched between bags for four hours, I was sold. There were so many trips and carpools where having the extra room was great. Moving furniture, etc. It was still funny (inefficient) seeing my dad drive it to work by himself most days, but on the days when we did need the space, it was totally worth it. Moving to college was the icing on the cake when we could load it up with everything with plenty of room to spare. The sliding doors are clutch. Getting into the third row is easier. If you'll use the functionality, minivan is the way to go.

^ I was just about to make this point.

We are a small vehicle family (Have had 2 CRVs and 2 corollas over the last 18 years) and it worked fine for ages.

But we just took a 10 hour trip to visit family over the holiday with two pre-teens who are almost grown up sized and a big dog, and this was the first time I really wished for a minivan. It could put a crimp in longer road trips moving forward. If OP is going to keep the vehicle 20 years, then go with a minivan.

[Radagast]

I was going to say my insurance costs plummeted from a 09 Civic Coupe to a 22 Pacifica van too, but I couldn't remember and haven't had the chance to look. I only had liability on the Civic, but the Pacifica is covered fully. But suffice to say insurance for minivans is as cheap or cheaper than any vehicle. They come loaded with all available safety features, are heavy enough to come out ok when playing bumper cars, and are typically driven by the safest drivers. Liability only will be like 1/4 the cost of a small sedan. Even full coverage will still be quite affordable. This difference will probably come out to a fee hundred per year versus a small SUV as well.