Author Topic: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?  (Read 25803 times)

CheapScholar

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Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« on: August 27, 2017, 05:31:26 PM »
I'm curious if anyone in the MMM community ever buys tickets online and resells for profit, AKA flipping or online scalping tickets.  My guess is that not many people on here would do this, as many would view it as creating no value (beyond profit).  I started casually flipping tickets when I was in law school back in 2006.  It was fun.  I didn't do it often and I only made a grand or two a year.  Now I work full time and I rarely bother.  I flip maybe a couple things per year, like Cubs playoff tix of things I know are sure winners.

Here's what's amusing, I got my dad into the entire thing.  Back in around 2007 I told him someone could make some decent money if they did this right.  At first he brushed me off and said Ticketmaster makes turning profit impossible because they're so corrupt.  He tried his hand at it anyway and has had success.  He was in an industry that was dying, and closed his business a few years ago.  He flips tickets full time now and works from home, which is good considering he's not getting any younger.  I'm amazed he was able to grasp all the technology required to flip on a massive scale: multiple modems, computers, etc.  He was able to get his hands on some software that could basically override presale passwords and scoop up the best tickets.  This was probably legal, IMO, until congress passed what's called the BOTS ACT last December.  My dad no longer uses any software or bots but still does quite well.  He can pull in a couple hundred K per year. 

Wondering if anyone here does this as a side hustle. 

shelivesthedream

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 12:44:41 AM »
I think this is a dick move and would be ashamed to con people out of money this way.

Little Aussie Battler

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 02:08:41 AM »
I think that anybody who does this is a complete scumbag.

coppertop

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 08:49:49 AM »
I think this is a dick move and would be ashamed to con people out of money this way.

I have to agree.  This practice is highly unethical, IMHO.

Drifterrider

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 08:56:09 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

As long as it is legal (or you are willing to pay the price if illegal) go for it.  Pay your income taxes! 

J Boogie

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 09:07:43 AM »
I know a guy who does this.

Devil's advocate - In theory, scalpers play a valid and useful role in the market.

The event promoter wants to unload their tickets quickly and know that they've covered their costs and a made a nice profit.  They're uncomfortable with selling their tickets at a high price and waiting for the procrastinators/spontaneous fans to buy.  Clearly this is the case as they would otherwise charge much higher prices more akin to what scalpers charge.

Scalpers do their research and take on the risk that the event promoters are not interested in.  Yes, some scalpers make phenomenal profits.  Some scalpers take losses. 

I will concede that it totally sucks when they gobble up all the tickets within seconds of them going on sale (this happens almost all the time for top tier events, ie Hamilton/Beyonce).  Fans don't have a chance even when they try to buy early.  In this situation, they are not playing a valid market role.  They are exploiting their practiced abilities to buy tickets quickly which most concertgoers are not as experienced with.

Louis CK has developed some good methods to deter scalping.

I would agree that this practice in its current form is unethical.  If you wait a day or two after the tickets go on sale, I believe that's a valid market role you're playing.  If you rush to get them, you are being a dick and you are communicating to fans that your desire for money is more important than their enjoyment of One Direction.  So yeah, you're stomping on the dreams of a bunch of 12 year old girls.

J Boogie

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 09:09:49 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

As long as it is legal (or you are willing to pay the price if illegal) go for it.  Pay your income taxes!

The guy I know who does this says you only have to pay income taxes if you make over $70,000/yr doing it.

He routinely makes 69,9k and his wife (aka him on his wife's phone) does the same.

He seems to know his way around tax law pretty well so as far as I can tell they make 139k/year tax free.

CNM

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 09:13:59 AM »

The guy I know who does this says you only have to pay income taxes if you make over $70,000/yr doing it.

He routinely makes 69,9k and his wife (aka him on his wife's phone) does the same.

He seems to know his way around tax law pretty well so as far as I can tell they make 139k/year tax free.

LOL
What a ridiculous idea.

talltexan

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 09:26:46 AM »
I suspect that you have to get used to: losing a little bit of money most of the time, and getting a big payoff some time.

I have friends who are season-ticket holders who'd attend ~50% of the games anyway. They see it as about breaking even on the non-attending games.

sokoloff

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2017, 09:27:48 AM »
The guy I know who does this says you only have to pay income taxes if you make over $70,000/yr doing it.

He routinely makes 69,9k and his wife (aka him on his wife's phone) does the same.

He seems to know his way around tax law pretty well so as far as I can tell they make 139k/year tax free.
They might make $139K without paying taxes, but not without owing taxes.

partgypsy

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 11:01:49 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

As long as it is legal (or you are willing to pay the price if illegal) go for it.  Pay your income taxes!

The guy I know who does this says you only have to pay income taxes if you make over $70,000/yr doing it.

He routinely makes 69,9k and his wife (aka him on his wife's phone) does the same.

He seems to know his way around tax law pretty well so as far as I can tell they make 139k/year tax free.
I'm not a tax law expert but I call bs on this. Even bartering is considered taxable income https://www.efile.com/taxable-income/

CheapScholar

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2017, 11:10:59 AM »
Original poster here - my dad does pay all his taxes.  But, he attended a convention in Vegas for ticket scalpers.  I know, Vegas has a convention for everything.  Anyway, I'm told a lot of people attend this convention.  My dad does talk often to others who scalp tickets and a few of them were not paying taxes, or seriously cheating on taxes.  I'm talking about guys who are profiting 500K per year flipping tickets and then fudging numbers in a way to pay zero or little taxes.  I suspect those guys will get caught eventually, as Stubhub and other online sites they use to sell the tickets do issue 1099 forms.  One of the guys my dad talks to is in his 30s and apparently said if he gets in tax trouble he will just leave the US.

The tax aspect is one reason I don't even bother messing with this stuff anymore.  I'm not a tax attorney, but I also call bs on the not paying taxes on the first 70K comment.  Not sure where in the tax code you'd find any loophole like that.

RethinkTheRatRace

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2017, 11:18:05 AM »
I think that anybody who does this is a complete scumbag.
I think this is a dick move and would be ashamed to con people out of money this way.

I have to disagree. Just to be clear, I don't personally do this, but the way I see it, the market determines the price. If I buy a pokemon card for $1, and it's super valuable and I resell it for $1000 because someone just HAS to have it, then I see no harm in that. Same idea for a sporting event or concert. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't. If no one buys it, then the scalper looks like a jackass and has lost all his money. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen often enough.

Goldielocks

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2017, 11:28:07 AM »
There is a secondary problem to the scalping tickets.   Event (band) promoters try to price the event to make money, but also to have an event filled with typical fans, who will continue to build the band over the years, and contribute to an awesome event.

I saw one comment from the band's lead singer who was tired of seeing mid-20 year old women with 50 y.o.+ men (who were not fans themselves), fill out the front rows all the time.   They could not find a typical "true" fan anywhere they could see from the stage.  This is because the scalper prices for the the prime tickets in front were so high, that only the sugar daddies were paying for them.   

Little Aussie Battler

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2017, 03:18:46 PM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

As long as it is legal (or you are willing to pay the price if illegal) go for it.  Pay your income taxes!
Taking advantage of scarcity to exploit consumers is not capitalism. This is nothing like your retail store example (who play an important facilitation role in the sale of goods).

Mustache ride

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2017, 06:23:34 PM »
For someone getting started, how do you find out when/what presales are going on?

J Boogie

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2017, 07:28:15 AM »
For someone getting started, how do you find out when/what presales are going on?

This guy pretty much explains it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Dave1442397

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2017, 08:31:44 AM »
So people don't view Ticketmaster as a scalping operation?

I was going to buy two $15 tickets to the circus and the total Ticketmaster price was around $85. Luckily, I found out that a friend could get them at face value through his job, because I refuse to pay their "fees".

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2017, 09:01:54 AM »
I know a guy who does this.

Devil's advocate - In theory, scalpers play a valid and useful role in the market.

The event promoter wants to unload their tickets quickly and know that they've covered their costs and a made a nice profit.  They're uncomfortable with selling their tickets at a high price and waiting for the procrastinators/spontaneous fans to buy.  Clearly this is the case as they would otherwise charge much higher prices more akin to what scalpers charge.

Scalpers do their research and take on the risk that the event promoters are not interested in.  Yes, some scalpers make phenomenal profits.  Some scalpers take losses. 

I will concede that it totally sucks when they gobble up all the tickets within seconds of them going on sale (this happens almost all the time for top tier events, ie Hamilton/Beyonce).  Fans don't have a chance even when they try to buy early.  In this situation, they are not playing a valid market role.  They are exploiting their practiced abilities to buy tickets quickly which most concertgoers are not as experienced with.

Louis CK has developed some good methods to deter scalping.

I would agree that this practice in its current form is unethical.  If you wait a day or two after the tickets go on sale, I believe that's a valid market role you're playing.  If you rush to get them, you are being a dick and you are communicating to fans that your desire for money is more important than their enjoyment of One Direction.  So yeah, you're stomping on the dreams of a bunch of 12 year old girls.

We had a bit of a problem over here. Major bands like Metallica and the like only rarely come to the Netherlands so tickets were very hard to come by because the scalpers bought everything in the first 2 hours. Then selling said tickets for 120% plus in pure profit. The bad ones even sold tickets multiple times but those are plain criminal and get picked up soon enough.
They were making so much profit that they kept buying more and more tickets from more and more types of events. Even an end-of-year comedy show got scalped... The point is, if you give scalpers a chance they can monopolize the market eventually by simply buying everything which results in them controlling the market price by the sheer amount of tickets they can gather.

Well, back to Metallica specifically. They set a limit to the number of tickets one person can buy and they also made it mandatory that the tickets can only be used if the person who bought them is there (with ID and everything) to show at the door. Suddenly I've been able to get tickets where I haven't been able to in the last 5 years...

J Boogie

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2017, 09:05:22 AM »
There's a business model there somewhere.

The scalperproof ticketmaster can't be far off.  Maybe one of us will create it.

Anytime the individual artist has to create a custom scheme to solve a problem, it makes me think there's a scalable solution that can benefit all artists who don't like this phenomenon.  Which is almost all of them.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 09:07:04 AM by J Boogie »

DarkandStormy

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2017, 09:22:09 AM »
The market will pay fair value.  If people are willing to pay above face value to scalpers, it's the promoter's/vendor's fault for originally charging below fair market value.

To do this full-time, I imagine you have to be in a top 20ish market in the U.S. with big-time acts coming through or a hot sports team in town.  I don't know how much you could make in, say, Milwaukee (no offense, Wisconsin).  In Chicago, sure.

TicketMaster is an absolute scam.  Not too many great alternatives, as Craig's List could get sketchy.  eBay maybe?  But hey, if people are willing to pay the extra fees...

I've done this minimally, mostly with high-profile games like playoffs or the like.  You do risk picking bad games where you're stuck with tickets because the demand isn't there.  Would be an interesting side-gig I think, but you have to be really plugged in to those promo deals, presales, etc. and have a good chunk of cash up front to buy them.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2017, 10:00:59 AM »
The scalperproof ticketmaster can't be far off.  Maybe one of us will create it.

It's already possible to create scalperproof ticketing, but it's restrictive, slow, and annoying, so bands/venues/etc. don't like to do it unless there's a serious problem with a particular tour/show. Basically they have to make the tickets non-transferable, so if you get sick or have an emergency or simply change your mind you get stuck with tickets you can't resell.

What they're starting to do is jack up the prices for the absolute best seats at hot events, as those are the ones scalpers make the most money from. If they skim the profit off the first five rows (or whatever) they hope that scalpers won't be left with enough potential profit to make it worthwhile. In other cases (where the band cares about the fans a little more) they'll put extra restrictions on those seats for the same reasons - making them non-transferable or very difficult to transfer, so they won't be scalped. It doesn't work 100% but it's usually good enough.

Goldielocks

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2017, 10:56:05 AM »
Other anti-scalping strategies:

1)  Give away a lot of the best seats to radio shows...  sell via other venues like club associations..
2)  Allow someone who can't use a ticket to get a refund from Ticketmaster (for a fee) that is resold by ticketmaster at face value.

partgypsy

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2017, 10:57:25 AM »
I know a guy who does this.

Devil's advocate - In theory, scalpers play a valid and useful role in the market.

The event promoter wants to unload their tickets quickly and know that they've covered their costs and a made a nice profit.  They're uncomfortable with selling their tickets at a high price and waiting for the procrastinators/spontaneous fans to buy.  Clearly this is the case as they would otherwise charge much higher prices more akin to what scalpers charge.

Scalpers do their research and take on the risk that the event promoters are not interested in.  Yes, some scalpers make phenomenal profits.  Some scalpers take losses. 

I will concede that it totally sucks when they gobble up all the tickets within seconds of them going on sale (this happens almost all the time for top tier events, ie Hamilton/Beyonce).  Fans don't have a chance even when they try to buy early.  In this situation, they are not playing a valid market role.  They are exploiting their practiced abilities to buy tickets quickly which most concertgoers are not as experienced with.

Louis CK has developed some good methods to deter scalping.

I would agree that this practice in its current form is unethical.  If you wait a day or two after the tickets go on sale, I believe that's a valid market role you're playing.  If you rush to get them, you are being a dick and you are communicating to fans that your desire for money is more important than their enjoyment of One Direction.  So yeah, you're stomping on the dreams of a bunch of 12 year old girls.

We had a bit of a problem over here. Major bands like Metallica and the like only rarely come to the Netherlands so tickets were very hard to come by because the scalpers bought everything in the first 2 hours. Then selling said tickets for 120% plus in pure profit. The bad ones even sold tickets multiple times but those are plain criminal and get picked up soon enough.
They were making so much profit that they kept buying more and more tickets from more and more types of events. Even an end-of-year comedy show got scalped... The point is, if you give scalpers a chance they can monopolize the market eventually by simply buying everything which results in them controlling the market price by the sheer amount of tickets they can gather.

Well, back to Metallica specifically. They set a limit to the number of tickets one person can buy and they also made it mandatory that the tickets can only be used if the person who bought them is there (with ID and everything) to show at the door. Suddenly I've been able to get tickets where I haven't been able to in the last 5 years...
I like this rule. I've seen here where grocery stores will have sale/loss leader on some item (tp, toothpaste) and a small number of people will buy all the tp. So even people who need the tp can't get it.

mathlete

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2017, 11:17:33 AM »
People who buy things that they're uninterested in for the sole purpose of holding them hostage from the people who would actually enjoy them are enemies of fun.

They contribute to the world being a worse place to live. They're comparable to The Grinch. They're probably zero fun at parties.

mathlete

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2017, 11:27:34 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

Goodness. Okay.

With retail, you're paying for several valuable things on top of the item you purchase. You're paying for the retailer's convenient retail location. You're paying for their relationship with distributors, and for their logistical ability to get the product you like from its point of manufacturing, to the retail location. You're paying for the knowledge of the employees who can help direct you to which product will work best for your need. You're paying for the retailer's economies of scale. i.e., it is cheaper for them to order 1,000 widgets and ship it to their retail outlet than it is for you to buy one widget and ship it to your home.

With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

Or, increasingly, you're paying the guy/bot who won the F5 raffle.

Retail undeniable creates value for everyone involved, at every level. The world would be a universally better place without career scalpers.

Eric

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2017, 11:33:40 AM »
There's a business model there somewhere.

The scalperproof ticketmaster can't be far off.  Maybe one of us will create it.


Ticketmaster owns most of venues as well.  So while no artist really wants scalpers to buy up their tickets, they still want the option to at least hold the concert.  And there's the rub.

Biggest issue to me is that not only does ticketmaster act as their own ticket reseller (no conflict of interest there), they also allow these professional scalper agencies exclusive access to buy the best seats.  Ever notice how the first ~10 rows for every event are all for sale on scalper websites?  It's not a coincidence.

partgypsy

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2017, 11:44:25 AM »
There's a business model there somewhere.

The scalperproof ticketmaster can't be far off.  Maybe one of us will create it.


Ticketmaster owns most of venues as well.  So while no artist really wants scalpers to buy up their tickets, they still want the option to at least hold the concert.  And there's the rub.

Biggest issue to me is that not only does ticketmaster act as their own ticket reseller (no conflict of interest there), they also allow these professional scalper agencies exclusive access to buy the best seats.  Ever notice how the first ~10 rows for every event are all for sale on scalper websites?  It's not a coincidence.
I really dislike ticketmaster.

RobFIRE

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2017, 11:44:36 AM »
I have mixed views on ticket touting/reselling for profit.

On one hand, it is a free market, these sport/music events are entertainment/discretionary spending and not a mandatory/health/basic living service so there is no need for any particular person to be entitled to attend. If the event is very popular then there may be people willing to pay more than a certain price (e.g. the face value of the ticket) to attend. When it is a discretionary entertainment event I don't really have a problem with this, those who will pay the most should be first in line to attend. I am not sure I buy this "prevents genuine fans from attending" concept - everybody who attends is presumably a fan, or at least a fan of entertainment/experiences, I don't think that there should be qualification/fan-level criteria to attend an entertainment event e.g. own x number of the band's recordings/have watched x number of the team's games before. So it suggests to me if the events sell out and therefore "genuine fans" cannot attend at all (or cannot attend at a reasonable price), then the number of events should increase (band concerts), or if it can't increase (only one World Cup final game every 4 years etc.) then as a "genuine fan" look at being a genuine fan of something at a more grassroots level e.g. be a fan of your local amateur team rather than the national/superstar team.

On the other hand, ticket reselling for profit is just profiteering. Clearly anyone who does that on a significant scale needs to be declaring and paying the relevant taxes.

There are now certain events that sell tickets with names on the tickets and you are supposed to have ID to match. However, I think that becomes unreasonable if you buy a ticket but cannot attend, the ticket should be fully transferable and you should not have to pay a fee to have the ticket reissued etc.

I think really though when such a reselling market exists, you can try to legislate against it (name on ticket etc.) but people will still ignore that/try to get around it. So it seems to me that the tickets for the oversubscribed events need to be sold on a different basis. Rather than selling at a fixed price and leading to a secondary reselling market, auction them all. That way everybody gets the same opportunity to buy, and those willing to pay the most will get tickets. As I've said, it's an entertainment event so those without the money to buy a ticket will miss out, but that's life, I don't believe anybody has an "entitlement" to attend. If the event organizers then make huge profits then one of two things could happen: if it's for-profit there will be competition so either the value of the event will increase (e.g. free CDs given out), if it's non-profit or limited in some way then the organizer can always give excess revenues to a charity etc.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2017, 11:56:55 AM »
It really ruins the vibe of most entertainment events if you end up with mostly rich/profligate people in attendance (which is what happens if the only people who get tickets are getting them through an auction, scalper prices, etc.).

The performers don't want this to happen, which is why they implement anti-scalper measures and push for anti-scalping legislation instead of just jacking tickets up to scalper prices and hoarding all the profits themselves. If they didn't care about poorer (or more frugal) people coming to their events they could easily eliminate almost all scalping by selling at scalper prices.

It turns out money isn't everything, or even the most important thing, to a lot of people. Ticket scalpers are nearly universally loathed because they ruin something that millions of people love out of selfishness and greed.

Cycling Stache

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2017, 02:11:34 PM »
With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

I was struck by this quote and how much emotion seems to play in the analysis.  How is this statement really different from the credit card reward/travel hacking that is so highly lauded on this forum (and which I do)?

Person buys credit card only for reward bonus knowing that the bonus is intended to get person to be a long-term user of the card.  Bonus is clearly worth way more than person's use of the card just to get the bonus.  Bank loses money for no reason other than person seeking credit card reward decided to take advantage of the system.  Bank then likely gets that money back by charging all other users higher interest rates or fees.

What's the difference?  Especially if one then adds people doing manufactured spending to get the bonuses?  There is zero value added by the people doing the credit card reward hacking.

At a gut level, I don't like the scalpers either.  But your statement made me realize that the model is not that different from the credit card hacking, so why do we feel so differently about that?  Because the bank "deserves" it?

Just a note.  Carry on.

CheapScholar

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2017, 03:07:49 PM »
I think the difference between the credit card example and ticket scalping is this:  The CC company willingly makes these offers knowing a few smart people will take the reward and cancel the card right away, but they also know many people will borrow on interest and thus turn profit for the CC company.  And, they could stop offering these deals whenever they want.

Now, back to the tickets.  Reading through this thread, I don't think people realize how effective the bots actually are when buying boat loads of tickets.  I have never owned a bot or used one, but I've seen one work in person.  I know for a fact that some of these online ticket scalpers pay nearly $1,000 per month for a good bot.  The bots scoop up all the tickets in nanoseconds and then the user of the bot purchases the best tickets and then releases the bad tickets.  This is why if you go on Ticketmaster to buy seats for a popular show, it will say all tickets are gone the first 30 minutes.  The scalpers with the bots are buying.  But after 30 minutes you'll see all the row Z tickets and crap that can't turn a profit.  Let's create an analogy - instead of tickets we will use bread.  There's a bakery that makes the best bread in town and they open at 10am and close at 11am.  If you show up at 10am and buy 10 loaves of bread because everyone else is busy at work and then sell for a profit you're pretty justified.  The baker doesn't want to stay open until 6pm and you're almost a part of the supply chain for bread.  But the bots basically change the analogy.  It's as if there are hundreds of people outside the bakery at 10am that want the bread at a fair price, but a few guys cut to the front of the line and get in the bakery and lock the door.

Again, the BOTS ACT last year made bots illegal, but the fact is people still use them.  It's hard to trace the bot activity because these guys are pros. 

Also, I don't really buy the whole "artists should just charge more or use dynamic pricing" argument.  If a band or comedian wants to make tickets affordable to fans for what they consider a fair price, they should have some tools to do so.  If you're a casual ticket flipper like me, the bots make it very hard to compete. 

Eric

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2017, 03:42:01 PM »
With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

I was struck by this quote and how much emotion seems to play in the analysis.  How is this statement really different from the credit card reward/travel hacking that is so highly lauded on this forum (and which I do)?


I don't see any similarity at all.  There's a scarcity to tickets because they're a one time event, with a limited number of tickets, only good on a certain day at a certain time.  You can open up a CC all year round, there's a large window to meet the bonus criteria, and then you're free to use your points/miles at your leisure with a long expiration date if any.  Your opening of a CC does not prevent someone else from getting the same card.  And unless you're doing something different with your points/miles than the rest of us, you're not actually selling these points/miles that you gained to someone else at an enormous profit.

Person buys credit card only for reward bonus knowing that the bonus is intended to get person to be a long-term user of the card.  Bonus is clearly worth way more than person's use of the card just to get the bonus.  Bank loses money for no reason other than person seeking credit card reward decided to take advantage of the system.  Bank then likely gets that money back by charging all other users higher interest rates or fees.

Except the bank does not lose money.  If they did, they wouldn't offer the bonuses.  Not sure how this has any tie in at all to someone buying one thing and selling the exact same thing to someone else taking advantage of scarcity to make a huge profit, because again, there's no scarcity to CC sign up bonuses.  There are hundreds of them available year round.

Quote
What's the difference?  Especially if one then adds people doing manufactured spending to get the bonuses?  There is zero value added by the people doing the credit card reward hacking.

Everything is different.  It's like saying what's the difference between a rock and a flower?  They're both organic, so they must be very similar?  Well they're not.  At all.

There is absolutely value added for the bank.  Again, otherwise they would stop offering it.  They're not charitable orgs.

At a gut level, I don't like the scalpers either.  But your statement made me realize that the model is not that different from the credit card hacking, so why do we feel so differently about that?  Because the bank "deserves" it?

Just a note.  Carry on.

The bank "deserves" to set their own business practices, upon which they make a profit.  You're free to choose another bank or CC.  There are plenty of competitors.  Your opening a CC DOES NOT preclude someone else from opening the same CC.

There's only one concert in town from an artist, with a limited number of tickets, and if you miss it at that one time, there may not be another for a long time, if ever.  In what manner does the scalper deserve to make a profit?  All they literally did was run some software or collude with ticketmaster to get a block of tickets that were willing to be purchased by the end user, and most likely the end users were actively trying to buy the same tickets at the same time as the scalpers.  Many popular concerts sell out within minutes.

This was such a labored comparison that I'm unsure how you even made it with good conscience.

Cycling Stache

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2017, 04:46:47 PM »
This was such a labored comparison that I'm unsure how you even made it with good conscience.

That you can't see the analysis is likely the effect of bias.

Do the math on the credit card analysis.  Typical bonus is that you spend $3,000 to get 50,000 points (or $500).  Credit cards charge of fee of approximately 2% for using the card (i.e. fee to the merchant).  $3,000 times 2% is $60.  $60 received for a $500 benefit paid out.

What's the profit?  They're counting on you not to sign up just for the bonus and to continue using the card.  Indeed, there is often a term of service saying exactly that.  You violate the express terms of service of the contract that you agreed to by getting the card just for the bonus, because it is money losing proposition for the bank if you just do that.

So, again, you (general you, not personal) believe it is okay to violate the terms of service of the credit card agreement to ensure that you get a benefit that costs the credit card money and for no other purpose than to get that benefit?  Since the credit card companies--as you state--are not in the business of losing money, they pass the costs to other users in the form of higher interest rates and fees.  So gaming the system was only for your benefit, at a cost to others.

Now let's look at the scalpers.  They buy the ticket that the artist/venue agrees to sell at a price (probably with a term of service that says the ticket can't be resold for a profit), then turn around and sell the ticket at a higher price, thus ensuring that they get money by taking advantage of the system, at an additional cost to the other people who do want to see the concert and they pay more as a result.

Both people took advantage of the system (both probably in violation of the terms of service in the agreement), made money by taking advantage, and ensured higher prices for other users.

The situation is mathematically identical, and probably morally equivalent.  Indeed, the scalpers might have a slightly better argument that they add value in that they bear the risk of possibly not selling some of the tickets (or selling at a loss), thus ensuring that the original seller sells those tickets at the face value without taking the risk of non-sale.  The credit card hacker knows he/she can stop as soon as get the bonus, so no risk of loss and no benefit to the credit card company.

Still can't see it?  Math it out and see how you can argue that the credit card company makes money off a person who does just enough to get the reward, doesn't pay interest, then moves to a different card?  Argue why it's morally superior to do so in direct violation of the terms of the credit card company terms of service but not to resell tickets in the same fashion?  Figure out who bears the loss in each of the examples.

The fact that you reached the judgment above (that I had not made the comparison in good conscience??) without working through the logical analysis is likely the product of bias.  That bias is almost certainly that you credit card hack, you believe you are a good person (most people do), and you therefore conclude that what you've done is okay (even if it violates the express agreement you had when you signed up for the card) because . . . reasons . . . (really, the reason is just that you believe you're a good person), but what scalpers do (and almost certainly you don't scalp) is bad.

There's a great book on this dynamic by Dan Ariely called "The Honest Truth About Dishonesty."  What it highlights is that pretty much everyone cheats a little, but only a little because we all want to think of ourselves as good people.  So we rationalize our actions to stick with the conclusion that we're good people.  That is the norm.

So, yes, I made the comparison in good conscience because it's supported by logic, it's rational, and the conclusion follows from the premises.  The reason I made it is because we address a lot of irrational behavior on this forum and it struck me as odd that our gut level reactions to those two examples is very different, but the analysis of what's really going on is pretty much identical.

Edited to soften tone.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 05:59:51 PM by Cycling Stache »

mm1970

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2017, 06:42:37 PM »
There's a business model there somewhere.

The scalperproof ticketmaster can't be far off.  Maybe one of us will create it.


Ticketmaster owns most of venues as well.  So while no artist really wants scalpers to buy up their tickets, they still want the option to at least hold the concert.  And there's the rub.

Biggest issue to me is that not only does ticketmaster act as their own ticket reseller (no conflict of interest there), they also allow these professional scalper agencies exclusive access to buy the best seats.  Ever notice how the first ~10 rows for every event are all for sale on scalper websites?  It's not a coincidence.
I really dislike ticketmaster.
I never did like them.

Luckily for me, I'm not really into concerts.  I have friends who are REALLY into concerts.  I've been to exactly two in this town in our local venue. The first, easy to get, Paul Simon, me and a bunch of gray hairs.  The second, tix from my neighbor with season tix he couldn't use, Natalie Merchant (also a bunch of gray hairs).  Which, since hubby and I have rapidly graying hair, isn't an insult.  Think "more people in their 60's and 70s than their 40s-50s".

I did try to get tix to a more popular concert (Depeche Mode) which sold out in seconds.  Oh well, I still have them on my iPod.  I still occasionally go to free concerts locally - smaller bands and the like.

In the old days, when I lived in a big city, I bought tickets a few times where you went to a particular location and got in line. Then everyone in line got a number in a lottery.  Then you could buy your tickets in order (up to 8, I believe). So one concert there were 5 of us who wanted to go, so we all got in line at 7 am on a Saturday, and the person with the best number (probably something like #150) got to buy the tickets.

englishteacheralex

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2017, 07:15:07 PM »
This is why I only go to concerts that my local public radio puts on, or theater shows put on through local theater groups or the college. I'm cheap and the entertainment value is still pretty high. No risk of scalpers!

The last time I went to a concert for a major performing artist was a Beck/Ben Folds Five show at the Saratoga Performing Arts Center in 1998. It was pretty cool. My date bought the ticket. I don't think internet scalping was a thing back then.

Planet Money did a cool podcast about the economics/ethics behind scalpers a while back.

sokoloff

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2017, 09:38:15 AM »
[The credit card company is] counting on you not to sign up just for the bonus and to continue using the card.  Indeed, there is often a term of service saying exactly that.  You violate the express terms of service of the contract that you agreed to by getting the card just for the bonus, because it is money losing proposition for the bank if you just do that.
I've never seen one, but you say they "often" exist. Could you share a couple of examples of the express terms against this?

Cycling Stache

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2017, 01:29:34 PM »
[The credit card company is] counting on you not to sign up just for the bonus and to continue using the card.  Indeed, there is often a term of service saying exactly that.  You violate the express terms of service of the contract that you agreed to by getting the card just for the bonus, because it is money losing proposition for the bank if you just do that.
I've never seen one, but you say they "often" exist. Could you share a couple of examples of the express terms against this?

Just an example from the Chase Ultimate Rewards agreement.  I excerpted the relevant provisions.  They characterize it as a misuse of the rewards program.

"How you could be prohibited from earning or using points
• We may temporarily prohibit you from earning points or using points you’ve already earned:
 . . .
if we suspect that you’ve misused the program in any way, for example:
. . .
· by repeatedly opening or otherwise maintaining credit card accounts for the purpose of generating rewards"

"How you could lose your points
• Your points don’t expire as long as your account is open, however, you’ll immediately lose all your points if your account status changes, or your account is closed, for any of the following reasons:
. . .
› we believe that you’ve misused the program in any way,
for example:
. . .
· by repeatedly opening or otherwise maintaining credit
card accounts for the purpose of generating rewards"

An example of the promotion offer also states that you may be denied the card if they determine that you have a history of opening cards only to get the rewards bonus.  See below:

"Replying to this offer: . . . Chase cardmembers currently receiving promotional pricing, or Chase cardmembers with a history of only using their current or prior Chase card for promotional pricing offers, are not eligible for a second Chase credit card with promotional pricing."

Obviously, they don't want to be too strict with it because a big part of the incentive to open the card is to get the reward (thus the offer).  That's why they've gone to the 5/24 rule.  It's an easy metric to determine likely reward hacking/credit card churning. 

seattlecyclone

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2017, 03:06:21 PM »
I have zero problem with ticket resellers.

There are a limited number of seats in the venue. How should they be allocated? We use money and market pricing to allocate most of the scarce goods and services in our economy. I have not yet been persuaded by any argument saying that tickets for entertainment events are so different from other things that they cannot or should not be subject to market pricing.

In an ideal world I'd love to see the band or venue set the face value of their tickets pretty close to a fair market price so that the full amount goes toward the people putting on the show. But if they're unable or unwilling to do that, I'm happy to let resellers take on that role.

What's the alternative? When you make tickets non-transferable, instead of using money and market pricing to allocate the scarce tickets, you're giving them to the people who are able to wait in line longest at the box office or who are able to log into TicketMaster at just the right moment. That makes the event inaccessible to those whose jobs or other commitments prevent them from being in the right place at the right time. I'd rather let the people who value the event most (in terms of money) attend.

At the same time I've seen some concerts save a few seats for true fans who show up at the last minute to wait in line. I have no problem with that at all either, to provide an alternative to attend for those who can't afford the full market price. But to say that the entire venue should be subject to the same rules...that's where I can't really agree.

J Boogie

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2017, 08:07:30 AM »

boarder42

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2017, 08:13:58 AM »
i do this.  i get opening day tickets for the local baseball team and resell.  i used to do beer festivals but that market has become saturated - too many beer festivals so not much profit left.  I do concert i know will sell out as well.  But you do need to be prepared to lose money.  i usually make 10-15k a year doing this ... when i FIRE i plan to dig deeper into this game and do much more of it.  I just dont have the time to figure out what to buy and resell right now, so i just buy what i plan to go to and scalp extra tickets. 

hate on it all you want but its free market capitalism. 

but this is not without risk i lost a lot of money this year so far b/c tickets didnt sell as i expected.

jjandjab

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2017, 08:56:21 AM »
One interesting model I've heard discussed is assigning seats randomly the day of the show. This might potentially cut down on scalping over time, although maybe not for the most popular shows. Basically, there would be say 3 price levels - say the floor, lower level and upper level. When you get to the gate, the computer would spit out your seat numbers for tickets bought together. This way it is sort of a hybrid of general admission and regular seating. Some fans will make out and get the front, others in the back. But assuming the real fans don't really care as a long as they get in, and even have a shot at the front row, they will be happy. But it might eventually take its toll on scalping. That sugar daddy won;t be able to ensure a front row seat for his sugar baby... Or if someone who isn't a fan pays multiples of face value to a scalper and gets the back, they will be mad and maybe not do that again...

Also, Taylor Swift's new idea will be interesting - that you will get priority for her tickets by buying her music, following her on FB and Instagram and liking various posts at certain times... Sure it's kind of vain and likely makes her more money, but would be hard to create a bot to do that kind of job. And the scalper in the office might not want to do that, unless they start employing 13 year old girls

I don't flip, but do have 4 seats for a NFL team where I typically go to 1 or 2 games, sell some to family members at face value and the others sell online, usually ensuring I go for free to my games and sometime make a small profit. I figure I'm taking the risk for a really bad season when I end up like the Chargers fans selling tickets for $6 on Stubhub, trying to get anyone to go...

Overall, I have no real issue with scalping. If shows started pricing based on the market, you would still only be ensuring the rich get to go to the most popular shows. If Hamilton last summer was based on popularity, then tickets would have been in the $1000s. At least there is a chance of getting a cheaper seat to shows with the current system (even if a poor chance...)

GuitarStv

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2017, 09:07:30 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

Goodness. Okay.

With retail, you're paying for several valuable things on top of the item you purchase. You're paying for the retailer's convenient retail location. You're paying for their relationship with distributors, and for their logistical ability to get the product you like from its point of manufacturing, to the retail location. You're paying for the knowledge of the employees who can help direct you to which product will work best for your need. You're paying for the retailer's economies of scale. i.e., it is cheaper for them to order 1,000 widgets and ship it to their retail outlet than it is for you to buy one widget and ship it to your home.

With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

Or, increasingly, you're paying the guy/bot who won the F5 raffle.

Retail undeniable creates value for everyone involved, at every level. The world would be a universally better place without career scalpers.

+1 on pretty much every point here.  People who scalp tickets are dicks.

boarder42

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2017, 09:20:46 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

Goodness. Okay.

With retail, you're paying for several valuable things on top of the item you purchase. You're paying for the retailer's convenient retail location. You're paying for their relationship with distributors, and for their logistical ability to get the product you like from its point of manufacturing, to the retail location. You're paying for the knowledge of the employees who can help direct you to which product will work best for your need. You're paying for the retailer's economies of scale. i.e., it is cheaper for them to order 1,000 widgets and ship it to their retail outlet than it is for you to buy one widget and ship it to your home.

With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

Or, increasingly, you're paying the guy/bot who won the F5 raffle.

Retail undeniable creates value for everyone involved, at every level. The world would be a universally better place without career scalpers.

+1 on pretty much every point here.  People who scalp tickets are dicks.

this is incorrect.  when i buy group tickets to a game i can buy them cheaper than single game tickets, i also dont have to pay any fees when i buy tickets.  Now thanks to dynamic pricing that most MLB teams use i can then sell those tickets cheaper than the team is usually selling them for closer to the day of the game.  therefore providing value to the team b/c they sold tickets earlier, and to the fan who can get a ticket cheaper than the team is currently selling them for and without added fees.  you can add value scalping but i guess you could personally attack everyone who posted here and saying they do this and call them all dicks.

GuitarStv

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2017, 09:48:18 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

Goodness. Okay.

With retail, you're paying for several valuable things on top of the item you purchase. You're paying for the retailer's convenient retail location. You're paying for their relationship with distributors, and for their logistical ability to get the product you like from its point of manufacturing, to the retail location. You're paying for the knowledge of the employees who can help direct you to which product will work best for your need. You're paying for the retailer's economies of scale. i.e., it is cheaper for them to order 1,000 widgets and ship it to their retail outlet than it is for you to buy one widget and ship it to your home.

With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

Or, increasingly, you're paying the guy/bot who won the F5 raffle.

Retail undeniable creates value for everyone involved, at every level. The world would be a universally better place without career scalpers.

+1 on pretty much every point here.  People who scalp tickets are dicks.

this is incorrect.  when i buy group tickets to a game i can buy them cheaper than single game tickets, i also dont have to pay any fees when i buy tickets.  Now thanks to dynamic pricing that most MLB teams use i can then sell those tickets cheaper than the team is usually selling them for closer to the day of the game.  therefore providing value to the team b/c they sold tickets earlier, and to the fan who can get a ticket cheaper than the team is currently selling them for and without added fees.  you can add value scalping but i guess you could personally attack everyone who posted here and saying they do this and call them all dicks.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.  People who scalp tickets are dicks to everyone except the rich assholes who wait until the last second to buy for their event.

FrugalToque

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2017, 09:54:21 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

Goodness. Okay.

With retail, you're paying for several valuable things on top of the item you purchase. You're paying for the retailer's convenient retail location. You're paying for their relationship with distributors, and for their logistical ability to get the product you like from its point of manufacturing, to the retail location. You're paying for the knowledge of the employees who can help direct you to which product will work best for your need. You're paying for the retailer's economies of scale. i.e., it is cheaper for them to order 1,000 widgets and ship it to their retail outlet than it is for you to buy one widget and ship it to your home.

With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

Or, increasingly, you're paying the guy/bot who won the F5 raffle.

Retail undeniable creates value for everyone involved, at every level. The world would be a universally better place without career scalpers.

+1 on pretty much every point here.  People who scalp tickets are dicks.

this is incorrect.  when i buy group tickets to a game i can buy them cheaper than single game tickets, i also dont have to pay any fees when i buy tickets.  Now thanks to dynamic pricing that most MLB teams use i can then sell those tickets cheaper than the team is usually selling them for closer to the day of the game.  therefore providing value to the team b/c they sold tickets earlier, and to the fan who can get a ticket cheaper than the team is currently selling them for and without added fees.  you can add value scalping but i guess you could personally attack everyone who posted here and saying they do this and call them all dicks.

I don't think that qualifies you as a "scalper" to be honest.  A "scalper" is a person who tries to corner the market on tickets, monopolize the industry, and make a profit.

You're no more a scalper than I was when I went to Costco, bought a double stack of <Some bulk product> and then sold half of them to someone else because I didn't need them.

Toque.

boarder42

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2017, 09:54:36 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

Goodness. Okay.

With retail, you're paying for several valuable things on top of the item you purchase. You're paying for the retailer's convenient retail location. You're paying for their relationship with distributors, and for their logistical ability to get the product you like from its point of manufacturing, to the retail location. You're paying for the knowledge of the employees who can help direct you to which product will work best for your need. You're paying for the retailer's economies of scale. i.e., it is cheaper for them to order 1,000 widgets and ship it to their retail outlet than it is for you to buy one widget and ship it to your home.

With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

Or, increasingly, you're paying the guy/bot who won the F5 raffle.

Retail undeniable creates value for everyone involved, at every level. The world would be a universally better place without career scalpers.

+1 on pretty much every point here.  People who scalp tickets are dicks.

this is incorrect.  when i buy group tickets to a game i can buy them cheaper than single game tickets, i also dont have to pay any fees when i buy tickets.  Now thanks to dynamic pricing that most MLB teams use i can then sell those tickets cheaper than the team is usually selling them for closer to the day of the game.  therefore providing value to the team b/c they sold tickets earlier, and to the fan who can get a ticket cheaper than the team is currently selling them for and without added fees.  you can add value scalping but i guess you could personally attack everyone who posted here and saying they do this and call them all dicks.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.  People who scalp tickets are dicks to everyone except the rich assholes who wait until the last second to buy for their event.

you dont have to participate in this thread if all you're going to do is personally attack people who use this to make extra income by calling us dicks. 

jjandjab

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2017, 09:56:44 AM »
It seems some people don't like capitalism.  Perhaps we should close all retail stores (where they buy at one price and resale at a higher price).

Goodness. Okay.

With retail, you're paying for several valuable things on top of the item you purchase. You're paying for the retailer's convenient retail location. You're paying for their relationship with distributors, and for their logistical ability to get the product you like from its point of manufacturing, to the retail location. You're paying for the knowledge of the employees who can help direct you to which product will work best for your need. You're paying for the retailer's economies of scale. i.e., it is cheaper for them to order 1,000 widgets and ship it to their retail outlet than it is for you to buy one widget and ship it to your home.

With scalping, you're paying for the guy who was in front of you in line to turn around and hand you a ticket that he had no interest in to begin with.

Or, increasingly, you're paying the guy/bot who won the F5 raffle.

Retail undeniable creates value for everyone involved, at every level. The world would be a universally better place without career scalpers.

+1 on pretty much every point here.  People who scalp tickets are dicks.

this is incorrect.  when i buy group tickets to a game i can buy them cheaper than single game tickets, i also dont have to pay any fees when i buy tickets.  Now thanks to dynamic pricing that most MLB teams use i can then sell those tickets cheaper than the team is usually selling them for closer to the day of the game.  therefore providing value to the team b/c they sold tickets earlier, and to the fan who can get a ticket cheaper than the team is currently selling them for and without added fees.  you can add value scalping but i guess you could personally attack everyone who posted here and saying they do this and call them all dicks.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.  People who scalp tickets are dicks to everyone except the rich assholes who wait until the last second to buy for their event.

Seriously, seems like you didn't even read what the prior poster wrote, since they said they were reselling for less than the team itself.

And let's be honest, all we are talking about is tickets to events that have nothing but entertainment value. It's not like folks here are buying up all the water and selling it at inflated prices to people dying of dehydration. It you can't go see U2 or some NFL game because the tickets are too pricey, then oh well...

boarder42

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2017, 10:03:58 AM »
The market will pay fair value.  If people are willing to pay above face value to scalpers, it's the promoter's/vendor's fault for originally charging below fair market value.

To do this full-time, I imagine you have to be in a top 20ish market in the U.S. with big-time acts coming through or a hot sports team in town.  I don't know how much you could make in, say, Milwaukee (no offense, Wisconsin).  In Chicago, sure.

TicketMaster is an absolute scam.  Not too many great alternatives, as Craig's List could get sketchy.  eBay maybe?  But hey, if people are willing to pay the extra fees...

I've done this minimally, mostly with high-profile games like playoffs or the like.  You do risk picking bad games where you're stuck with tickets because the demand isn't there.  Would be an interesting side-gig I think, but you have to be really plugged in to those promo deals, presales, etc. and have a good chunk of cash up front to buy them.

eBay owns stubhub that is their ticket selling venue.  i have good luck selling on Craigslist in KC.  the royals have been hot and its been easy to make money.  I will probably not renew my opening day tickets this year as they wont make the playoffs and the royals have priced out resellers on opening day.  I used to be able to sell half my tickets to fund a tailgate with my friends.  now the base price is so high my friends dont even want to pay face value to go to opening day when the game 2 days later costs 1/8th the price of any opening day ticket. 

I think the teams are getting really good at ticket pricing with the new dynamic pricing.  concerts on the other hand, arent as good at it

Valhalla

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Re: Side Hustle: Reselling tickets for profit?
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2017, 10:08:55 AM »
There wouldn't be a problem with scalpers if people were level-headed and didn't pay absurd prices for tickets.

Those who complain about scalpers have one person to point to - and it's looking right back at them in the mirror.

I have zero desire to be herded like cattle to sporting events, concerts, or any other public gathering where you pay for over-priced food / drinks / parking.  I can't fathom paying 1 penny over the retail price of the ticket to a scalper or anyone else to go the said event.    That's not the MMM way.

Yet there are plenty of people who will pay 10 times or more the value of a ticket to go see that band, team, or whatever...an absurd price for an hour or two of fun, really??

Let's take the Superbowl as an example.  Who would be absurd enough to pay dozens time the face value of tickets to go see a sporting event that only lasts 3-4 hours?  They could have a better view at home, more relaxed with friends, save tons of money, and have as much fun (but they don't get to boast "I was there"...so what).  Anyone who pays 1 cent over asking retail price for a Superbowl ticket is unwise, and also contributing to the phenomenon of scalpers.

Same thing with concerts.  Do you *really* need to pay $1,000 or more for a 2 hour concert to see your favorite band from 1000 yards away?  I would suggest not, especially with the media exposure to celebrities and bands.

So I don't hate scalpers... I think they highlight the foolishness of the people who drive up ticket prices by actually paying absurd prices for them.  The consumers are to blame...if no one paid a penny over retail price, do you think scalpers would be able to exist?

Again, the MMM way wins, and those who are foolish enough to waste money by over spending for a few hours of "fun" are losing out.  If the world was a Mustachian-ville, scalpers would be broke, sports stars and celebrities would make less a lot less money instead of being vastly overpaid, and people would actually have a lot more money to spend on practical and useful things like education, health, and home activities. (oh one more thing - no one would line up / camp out to buy ridiculously over-priced $1k+ Apple devices.)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 10:13:16 AM by Valhalla »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!