Should I not share my net worth/income/expenditures on this forum

[k290]

I've kind of started a journal in the journals section.

I have however noted that some people on this site don't like to disclose how much money they have. Just wondering the reasons why. I'd like some precautions before I do something silly.

[NICE!]

I'm constantly torn on this. Ultimately I don't think there's a big risk if you keep out names, addresses, and other such personally identifiable information. Just be prudent.

[JohnnyDollar]

If you don't want it to come back to you, don't post it on the Internet.

[Sibley]

You don't know my name or exact address. You may or may not know the financial institution. You don't know account numbers. But to get all the information, you'd have to comb through all my posts. I think the risk is worth the information and inspiration I get. Make your decision based on your risk tolerance.

[Cathy]

Realistically, if you are serious about complete anonymity, you cannot participate in a forum, period. If you post enough to a forum, a skilled adversary can quite possibly identify you based purely on your writing style, assuming they have some corpus of your writing to compare it against.

If you have skilled adversaries, you have to assume that they are able to identify you on any forum where you have posted enough text, even if you don't disclose any personal details on that forum. Thus, the same adversaries would know your financial information if you posted it to the forum.

As with all things in operational security, you need to consider your threat model (i.e. what adversaries are you concerned about and what do they want with you?) and use that to inform your security choices.

[NICE!]

Realistically, if you are serious about complete anonymity, you cannot participate in a forum, period. If you post enough to a forum, a skilled adversary can quite possibly identify you based purely on your writing style, assuming they have some corpus of your writing to compare it against.

If you have skilled adversaries, you have to assume that they are able to identify you on any forum where you have posted enough text, even if you don't disclose any personal details on that forum. Thus, the same adversaries would know your financial information if you posted it to the forum.

As with all things in operational security, you need to consider your threat model (i.e. what adversaries are you concerned about and what do they want with you?) and use that to inform your security choices.

Bingo.

For a shorter version, I'd bet the farm that you don't have nor will you encounter a skilled adversary. If you do, you'll probably lose whether you post here or not.

[Psychstache]

Realistically, if you are serious about complete anonymity, you cannot participate in a forum, period. If you post enough to a forum, a skilled adversary can quite possibly identify you based purely on your writing style, assuming they have some corpus of your writing to compare it against.

If you have skilled adversaries, you have to assume that they are able to identify you on any forum where you have posted enough text, even if you don't disclose any personal details on that forum. Thus, the same adversaries would know your financial information if you posted it to the forum.

As with all things in operational security, you need to consider your threat model (i.e. what adversaries are you concerned about and what do they want with you?) and use that to inform your security choices.

Bingo.

For a shorter version, I'd bet the farm that you don't have nor will you encounter a skilled adversary. If you do, you'll probably lose whether you post here or not.

If you have a skilled adversary, let alone multiple ones, you might need to rethink how you live your life.

[Kriegsspiel]

Realistically, if you are serious about complete anonymity, you cannot participate in a forum, period. If you post enough to a forum, a skilled adversary can quite possibly identify you based purely on your writing style, assuming they have some corpus of your writing to compare it against.

If you have skilled adversaries, you have to assume that they are able to identify you on any forum where you have posted enough text, even if you don't disclose any personal details on that forum. Thus, the same adversaries would know your financial information if you posted it to the forum.

As with all things in operational security, you need to consider your threat model (i.e. what adversaries are you concerned about and what do they want with you?) and use that to inform your security choices.

Bingo.

For a shorter version, I'd bet the farm that you don't have nor will you encounter a skilled adversary. If you do, you'll probably lose whether you post here or not.

If you have a skilled adversary, let alone multiple ones, you might need to rethink how you live your life.

Yup. Plus, based on everything I've seen in my life, you will inevitably be tracked and hunted for sport. To save your life and that of your daughter, who will be kidnapped, you will have to train in martial arts, firearms, and swordplay. If you are already proficient in those areas, you can immediately begin transforming everywhere you go into an abattoir. By the time the trail of bodies leads you to your skilled adversary, you had better have learned his/her one weakness, usually a secret medical condition. After you dispatch them, smirking, you still cannot rest easy posting your net worth on an internet forum. History has shown that these things tend to repeat themselves at least two more times.

[Landlord2015]

I've kind of started a journal in the journals section.

I have however noted that some people on this site don't like to disclose how much money they have. Just wondering the reasons why. I'd like some precautions before I do something silly.

First of all I am not open that way. Full disclosure absolutely no. I would not even tell my age unless a babe seriously would want to date me.

You can pick up bits and pieces of me from various posts though.

Anyway one annoying thing is that I don't give a crap if you have:
300 000 in 401k or IRA.
That means nothing to me. I do know that you can withdraw money from 401k before the pension age, but that is not the point.

The point what makes it difficult to compare that the state in my country tax people a lot and pension is withdrawn automatically from your salary as a percentage. The more you earn with that system the more pension you will get.

If you ask me how much pension do I have earned my answer is I don't have a clue, but people in my country do not starve on their pension age though some get more pension then others.

It is very difficult to compare Europe style high tax and automatic pension withdraw towards USA 401k, IRA etc. That and my unwillingness to share everything with whole world that's why I don't give full disclosure in these forums.

[TheGibberingPotato]

Realistically, if you are serious about complete anonymity, you cannot participate in a forum, period. If you post enough to a forum, a skilled adversary can quite possibly identify you based purely on your writing style, assuming they have some corpus of your writing to compare it against.

If you have skilled adversaries, you have to assume that they are able to identify you on any forum where you have posted enough text, even if you don't disclose any personal details on that forum. Thus, the same adversaries would know your financial information if you posted it to the forum.

As with all things in operational security, you need to consider your threat model (i.e. what adversaries are you concerned about and what do they want with you?) and use that to inform your security choices.

Completely agree.
"I don't have a skilled adversary" = famous last words.

I have identified people I know on online forums before.  It was "hey that sounds familiar..." type of moment.  Dug a little deeper, and bingo.  Of course, I never used that knowledge in any way, and definitely in any malicious way.

My advice, don't take the risk.

A related question one might ask is, have I ever had a credit card compromised?
I have, and almost everyone i know has.

There are bad people out there.

The people out there with blogs about their personal finances are going to be bigger and easier targets for this type of stuff.

[Davids]

I have no problem disclosing who I am. My name is David.

[Cathy]

Realistically, if you are serious about complete anonymity, you cannot participate in a forum, period. If you post enough to a forum, a skilled adversary can quite possibly identify you based purely on your writing style, assuming they have some corpus of your writing to compare it against.

If you have skilled adversaries, you have to assume that they are able to identify you on any forum where you have posted enough text, even if you don't disclose any personal details on that forum. Thus, the same adversaries would know your financial information if you posted it to the forum.

As with all things in operational security, you need to consider your threat model (i.e. what adversaries are you concerned about and what do they want with you?) and use that to inform your security choices.

...
"I don't have a skilled adversary" = famous last words.

The other thing worth noting is that you can't do opsec retroactively. Even if you don't have a skilled adversary now, you may have one in the future, and then it will be too late to retroactively cleanse your previous dealings with the internet. This is a lesson that Ross Ulbricht learned the hard way after being owned based on early opsec mistakes, made months before he thought he had a skilled adversary. (To be fair, he made plenty of later opsec mistakes as well, but the early ones were particularly glaring.)

Posting financial information doesn't involve the same level of risk as operating an illegal online marketplace but the general opsec principles are still relevant.

I'm not proposing that any conclusion be drawn from the above. It's just a fact that adversaries can arise later and make use of data from earlier.

[Eric]

Realistically, if you are serious about complete anonymity, you cannot participate in a forum, period. If you post enough to a forum, a skilled adversary can quite possibly identify you based purely on your writing style, assuming they have some corpus of your writing to compare it against.

If you have skilled adversaries, you have to assume that they are able to identify you on any forum where you have posted enough text, even if you don't disclose any personal details on that forum. Thus, the same adversaries would know your financial information if you posted it to the forum.

As with all things in operational security, you need to consider your threat model (i.e. what adversaries are you concerned about and what do they want with you?) and use that to inform your security choices.

Completely agree.
"I don't have a skilled adversary" = famous last words.

I have identified people I know on online forums before.  It was "hey that sounds familiar..." type of moment.  Dug a little deeper, and bingo.  Of course, I never used that knowledge in any way, and definitely in any malicious way.

My advice, don't take the risk.

The irony is strong with this one.  :)

This whole thread is pretty funny.  As soon as that skilled adversary finds out that you cut cable or contribute the max to your 401k, well watch out!  You're going to be declaring bankruptcy before you know it.  It's just what happens.

[NICE!]

...an illegal online marketplace...

Nah. Murder is illegal, as is drug trafficking (I'll leave aside my normative judgements on that issue), not an anonymous marketplace on the free and open Internet. I know the feds want us to think differently, but then again they haven't been fans of freedom on the Internet for quite some time now.

But I'm 100% in agreement with you on OPSEC. Like most here, I've accepted the risk. Like only a few, I've actually considered them. I choose not to live in fear but to be prudent, just like I wouldn't go 60 mph in a school zone. By the same token, I won't give you my account numbers, social, or addresses.

I'm also absolutely certain that my writing voice is easily discernible if you have enough of my emails & forum postings.

[AlexK]

If you aren't going to include any details what is the point of a journal entry? I feel like the point of writing a journal is to allow others to be inspired or learn from your story. Without knowing the gender, age, income range, or general location the story becomes meaningless because nobody can relate to it.

I have my real name and initial, photo, city, age, and real numbers all over this forum and never been kidnapped, raped, robbed, or identity stolen. I have met some great people from the forum in real life though.

[Seņora Savings]

I think it's mostly a holdover from not sharing numbers in person. 

All case studies share numbers, because it's relevant there.  In other places it isn't quite relevant.  And you can trust that I know what I'm talking about, because my net worth is eight figures.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

And you can trust that I know what I'm talking about, because my net worth is eight figures.

So is mine, as long as you count cents...

[dude]

Yup. Plus, based on everything I've seen in my life, you will inevitably be tracked and hunted for sport. To save your life and that of your daughter, who will be kidnapped, you will have to train in martial arts, firearms, and swordplay. If you are already proficient in those areas, you can immediately begin transforming everywhere you go into an abattoir. By the time the trail of bodies leads you to your skilled adversary, you had better have learned his/her one weakness, usually a secret medical condition. After you dispatch them, smirking, you still cannot rest easy posting your net worth on an internet forum. History has shown that these things tend to repeat themselves at least two more times.

HILARIOUS!

[waffle]

Everyone has "skilled adversaries". Its called a world full of identity thieves. While the risk is low that it will happen I'd be a bit leery of being targeted by an identity thief because I post all over the forum about my high net worth. Lucky me I don't have to worry about that yet since my net worth isn't all that high.

[DoubleDown]

Yup. Plus, based on everything I've seen in my life, you will inevitably be tracked and hunted for sport. To save your life and that of your daughter, who will be kidnapped, you will have to train in martial arts, firearms, and swordplay. If you are already proficient in those areas, you can immediately begin transforming everywhere you go into an abattoir. By the time the trail of bodies leads you to your skilled adversary, you had better have learned his/her one weakness, usually a secret medical condition. After you dispatch them, smirking, you still cannot rest easy posting your net worth on an internet forum. History has shown that these things tend to repeat themselves at least two more times.

And, as this is an early retirement forum, let's not forget perhaps the primary danger we face: GETTING DRAGGED OUT OF RETIREMENT despite all our best attempts to leave that life behind. Because you will inevitably be pulled back into the world of killing, make sure you cover all legal (and honor) angles by warning your adversaries in advance that you possess certain "skills" and you will use them.

[NICE!]

Everyone has "skilled adversaries". Its called a world full of identity thieves. While the risk is low that it will happen I'd be a bit leery of being targeted by an identity thief because I post all over the forum about my high net worth. Lucky me I don't have to worry about that yet since my net worth isn't all that high.

Yeah this isn't where they're looking.

[frugalnacho]

Once you know someones net worth you can absorb their power.  I keep mine closely guarded.

[celticmyst08]

Personally I've been quite open about finances in my journal because I like the accountability. I have no one to discuss it with in person other than my husband (and to an extent, my parents), so it's really helped us to stay on track when I know I have to 'report' how we are doing!

If someone wants to track me down and rob me, joke's on them, the only interesting thing in our apartment is cats.

[damize]

Discussing your finances is un-American: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-subject-most-americans-won-192400050.html

[k290]

Discussing your finances is un-American: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-subject-most-americans-won-192400050.html

Interesting article . Fortunately for us, not everyone is american :D

[jopiquant]

I have a tendency to be more open, DH has a tendency to be more private. Also, our net worth is highly illusory, since so much of it is home equity.

I try to strike a balance and contribute personal info where I think it might help others, but I won't be posting a case study to get more direction for our own situation. The main advice we would get, from what I've seen, is:

stop paying additional on your mortgage - invest instead
stop drinking expensive Vancouver beer and wine, especially out of the house

[NICE!]

Discussing your finances is un-American: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-subject-most-americans-won-192400050.html

I've read a ton of stuff saying that this basically doesn't apply to Millennials, which is causing huge problems for employers that like to hide compensation from employees.

[daymare]

I've read a ton of stuff saying that this basically doesn't apply to Millennials, which is causing huge problems for employers that like to hide compensation from employees.

This is really interesting (I'm a Millennial).  I shared my salary with my closest friends (and basically anyone who asked, because I'm way open about money), and I know what my closest friends made/make.  I recently met up with an old coworker when he was in town, and it was totally not awkward to ask what he's making now (a couple years after I left - we started in the same role).  I'll be job-searching soon and I'm pretty sure I'll be talking to friends about specifics of their salaries.  I also think that it's easier to talk about salaries earlier in your career - there's less disparity in incomes at the start, than there is after years of performance reviews/promotions/compensation evaluations, which might leave two people who began with the same salary/job in totally different positions (and feeling badly about exposing that).

As to the general question, let me offer you a story.  I've commented on another website, with a username that's a nickname some friends use for me.  My SIL somehow found my account (she knows the nickname and used it to search for something I posted online), and found a years-old comment that mentioned a bad experience that I had with a situation that involved her (but the comment was all about my feelings, no specifics on her and anyone else involved).  And it was a bad situation, which left me feeling unhappy and oddly violated in a way.  Nothing I wrote was not shared in person earlier with those involved in the situation, and the focus of the comment was on me (not on criticizing others).  I wasn't ashamed or embarrassed by what I wrote, but some of my in-laws got really upset because they felt it wasn't appropriate.  Won't lie, the situation did shake me, I've never had someone cause a commotion about anything I've written online.  It was the only comment (of dozens) on that site that mentioned my SIL, I didn't even remember writing it (when shit hit the fan), and I don't feel I was in the wrong in any way.  I never commented on that public website with the assumption of anonymity ... but I was really unsettled by the situation.  I'm not sure how I feel about the whole thing (mostly angry), but I guess it's a good tale to get you thinking about possible ramifications of posting identifiable information.

I still share everything about my finances on this site, maybe that will change when I have a high net worth.  Anyway, it's undeniably true that over the course of lots of posts, tons of personal information gets revealed, and it really adds up (if you're not cognizant of/thoughtful about what you're sharing).  People who know you can probably identify you.  That doesn't stop me from posting - but I do think before the incident above, I was a bit naive about how sheltered my comments on various websites were from my real life (turns out they're not, not the way I was doing things).

[sheepstache]

I read statistically most identity theft is committed by someone in one's own family.

[Ricky]

Just keep in mind before being all paranoid and coming up with all kinds of conspiracy theories that MMM himself documents nearly everything except net worth. He doesn't exactly give his income, but anyone reading knows he's probably worth over $2M now easily. I'm pretty sure I found the address of his house somewhwre based on info in his posts. He's also reached out to people willing to give them his address for help with things.

So, in reality, there's nothing to worry about. I'd be much more worried about telling a close friend my own situation than a complete stranger that I'll literally never see.

[rocketpj]

I have seen more than one potential political candidate get burned by an offhand comment he or she made in an internet forum years earlier, in one case lifted way out of context.  I suspect if I were to ever have a stroke and then decide to take up a life of politics my career would quickly end in that fashion as soon as I became a threat to anyone with juice.

I don't post my financial stuff online for the same reason I don't use my real name, and actually change my handle every couple of years.  Because it just doesn't need to be out there.  Just the other day I had qualms about posting a family-ish story on one of the other threads, because you never know who might be reading it and recognize themselves (though in this case if that relative is reading this forum I will eat my hat).

[ender]

This compelled me to at least change my forum handle...

[HopefulMustache]

It's definitely a balancing act. I'm often tempted to share more details because it can feel cathartic, and I have often found such details helpful in the blogs of others. At the same time, commit it to writing on the internet and it's there forever, and you're likely exposing some degree of other people's privacy as well with any personal stories, so it can be a dicey question.

As has been said, it's about risk tolerance to an extent, and I'd certainly consider what you hope to get out of sharing any given personal details before doing so.

[trailrated]

I have no problem disclosing who I am. My name is David.

But are there more than one of you...

[frugalnacho]

I have no problem disclosing who I am. My name is David.

But are there more than one of you...

There is now.  Guess who just opened up a new line of credit?  "David" did.

[electriceagle]

Realistically, if you are serious about complete anonymity, you cannot participate in a forum, period. If you post enough to a forum, a skilled adversary can quite possibly identify you based purely on your writing style, assuming they have some corpus of your writing to compare it against.

If you have skilled adversaries, you have to assume that they are able to identify you on any forum where you have posted enough text, even if you don't disclose any personal details on that forum. Thus, the same adversaries would know your financial information if you posted it to the forum.

As with all things in operational security, you need to consider your threat model (i.e. what adversaries are you concerned about and what do they want with you?) and use that to inform your security choices.

Bingo.

For a shorter version, I'd bet the farm that you don't have nor will you encounter a skilled adversary. If you do, you'll probably lose whether you post here or not.

If you have a skilled adversary, let alone multiple ones, you might need to rethink how you live your life.

Unless you are a ninja, in which case its worth it.