Author Topic: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??  (Read 1322 times)

ObviouslyNotAGolfer

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Our Charter internet here in SoCal has become increasingly crappy over the years. It is to the point now that we have dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of outages every day, sometimes for a few seconds, and sometimes for long periods--ohhh, maybe 12 hours or more. Also the price keeps going up and up and up!! It is making it extremely difficult to get my work from home done and to live a normal life. 

Lately, I've been busy enough (very busy!! and not just with work!!) that I have not had the bandwidth to pick up the damn phone and wait an hour and a half to talk to someone about it. One of our neighbors, who also has Charter-Spectrum, told me that it took her 90 minutes to talk to someone (rude), and they told her it would take them 12 days to send someone out to look at her cable. Her son missed a day of school. Meanwhile, there is this little company called Toast who offers much faster ATT fiber for 75/month--more than ATT charges, but you pay more to not have to deal with a hideous company (ATT) directly.

Is there any reason to try to deal with Charter to keep an inferior, crappy technology with constant junk mail trying to get me to sign up for cable (Home shopping network? Weather Channel? Charles in Charge reruns? Anyone? Anyone???? LOL!)? Seriously, is there any reason why i should try to make things work with them--even though I suspect they will make it enormously difficult to cancel and will probably continue billing me to the end of time?? The only advantage I see here is if they fix it correctly and give   lease me another modem (they're currently charging me to lease a modem that I already own), it will cause less disruption in my already busy life!

I have read that fiber does not use a modem, but runs a co-ax cable or ethernet cable from the box directly into the router? Is this correct? What differences/hassles will i have to deal with if I switch to fiber? I don't know what might happen if this tiny Toast company ever goes TU--I guess I'll have to deal with the deathstar myself? Can someone summarize how living with fiber is different than living with cable? We have to have wi-fi, and cannot run a cable directly into any of our PCs--screwy, but that's our setup here for the time being.

Thanks for any thoughts!

« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 09:42:07 PM by ObviouslyNotAGolfer »

Montecarlo

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2020, 09:18:45 PM »
Go with the AT&T Fiber.  Do it now.  You won't regret it.

billy

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2020, 11:09:20 PM »
How is Charter charging you a gateway rental fee if you don't physically have there gateway, did they still issue it to you?

Sounds like your issue is on your end, I would call Charter tech support to troubleshoot over the phone, because if you switch that's going to be a hassle so sounds like either way, it's going to take time.

I like cable internet because I can use my own modem (no fee), in turn picking my own router that's easy to use.

Plan b would be to cancel Charter by telling them you are canceling service because your leaving the county and they won't sweat you. Try out ATT fiber that has a 30 day guarantee, but they require you to use there gateway.

Uturn

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 06:07:51 AM »
I am switching from Spectrum to AT&T on Thursday.  Unfortunately it is not AT&T Fiber, but I really need the outages to stop.  I had the same problem with Charter 10 or 12 years ago in TX. 

redhead84

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2020, 07:05:58 AM »
We ditched Charter for a local fiber option about 2 years ago. The connection speed and dependability is much better. You won't regret the switch.

The only bad part is that we get more Charter junk mail now than we did before which is hilarious because they didn't seem concerned with keeping us as a customer when we called to cancel.

simmias

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2020, 07:10:38 AM »
I switched from Spectrum to Google Fiber a few years ago and it's such a better product that I will never live anywhere where I can't get something comparable ever again.

dignam

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2020, 07:38:48 AM »
Our options here are Spectrum or TDS.  Both pretty much suck.  We get at least weekly random 20-30 minutes internet outages.  I WFH, but am on call as one of our systems guys.  Luckily nothing at work has broken during a local outage.

I'm also in classes for my graduate degree.  Everything is online; remotely proctored exams, etc.  I actually go in to the office to take my exams because I don't trust Spectrum at home.

Holding out hope for Starlink, which should be available within the next year.  Getting rid of Spectrum as soon as I can.

So yes, get rid of Spectrum if you local fiber options don't suck as bad as ours does.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 07:40:36 AM by dignam »

dcheesi

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2020, 08:35:44 AM »
I have read that fiber does not use a modem, but runs a co-ax cable or ethernet cable from the box directly into the router? Is this correct? What differences/hassles will i have to deal with if I switch to fiber? I don't know what might happen if this tiny Toast company ever goes TU--I guess I'll have to deal with the deathstar myself? Can someone summarize how living with fiber is different than living with cable? We have to have wi-fi, and cannot run a cable directly into any of our PCs--screwy, but that's our setup here for the time being.

Thanks for any thoughts!
The fiber connects to an Optical Network Terminal; analogous to a modem for cable or DSL, but it's usually placed at the demarcation point, either outside or on an inside wall. At least with Verizon FiOS, it's still possible to buy your own compatible router rather than renting one from the provider. Wifi etc. should work like any other service/router.

Can't answer your question about Toast, since we get fiber directly from one of the major providers (you can probably guess which one).

It's pretty rock-solid for us; YMMV, of course, as any carrier can screw up their back-end network, regardless of the technology. But fiber is less susceptible to certain issues common in copper cabling (EMI, shorts/faults due to water ingress, etc.).

Also, you're likely to get better upload speeds compared to cable, which can be useful for working-from-home (video conferencing, uploading work to the company network, etc.).

Ichabod

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2020, 09:06:38 AM »
Is there any reason to try to deal with Charter to keep an inferior, crappy technology with constant junk mail trying to get me to sign up for cable (Home shopping network? Weather Channel? Charles in Charge reruns? Anyone? Anyone???? LOL!)? Seriously, is there any reason why i should try to make things work with them--even though I suspect they will make it enormously difficult to cancel and will probably continue billing me to the end of time?? The only advantage I see here is if they fix it correctly and give   lease me another modem (they're currently charging me to lease a modem that I already own), it will cause less disruption in my already busy life!

I have read that fiber does not use a modem, but runs a co-ax cable or ethernet cable from the box directly into the router? Is this correct? What differences/hassles will i have to deal with if I switch to fiber? I don't know what might happen if this tiny Toast company ever goes TU--I guess I'll have to deal with the deathstar myself? Can someone summarize how living with fiber is different than living with cable? We have to have wi-fi, and cannot run a cable directly into any of our PCs--screwy, but that's our setup here for the time being.

Thanks for any thoughts!

I switched from Comcast/Xfinity cable to AT&T fiber 13 months ago. Signing up/setting up installation was easy and all online. For installation, a tech came out to the house, ran a line to the house, and installed the ONT. Took about an hour? Then last month, my initial promotion expired. I couldn't get the price I wanted by renewing online, but a twenty-minute phone call later, I was happy.

With cable, I owned my modem and router. With fiber, there's an ONT (optical network terminal), it's a plastic box on your wall where the internet comes out. I do have to use AT&Ts router, but I have the wifi turned off, and plugged into my own router.

Fiber has better bandwidth and latency than cable, but an average user won't notice. I imagine reliability is about the same and is probably more dependent on the providers. I've had maybe one or two outages over the last year, while my neighbors with cable have complained of three or four. It's likely just the cable line is in a worse place.

Switching between cable and fiber shouldn't change your wifi connectivity. When you lose connectivity, check if your devices can still see the wifi network. If the wifi network itself is dropping, you only need to replace your router.

ketchup

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2020, 09:19:11 AM »
Fiber has better bandwidth and latency than cable, but an average user won't notice. I imagine reliability is about the same and is probably more dependent on the providers. I've had maybe one or two outages over the last year, while my neighbors with cable have complained of three or four. It's likely just the cable line is in a worse place.
Also, the physical fiber is likely way newer than cable or phone line runs.  That makes a difference.  My shitty DSL relies on phone lines that are at least 20 years old (based on the out of date phone company name on the outside box), and leaves much to be desired.  My parents had some connectivity issue with DSL (for YEARS) because of an old shitty line coupling that AT&T refused to acknowledge until the "right" tech happened to check it out.

Additionally in that same vein, fiber is very all-or-nothing.  Something like coax or phone can be damaged and finicky but still "work", but if fiber is damaged it's pretty much unambiguously toast right away and the ISP has to actually fix it.

If you have the chance to get fiber, get it yesterday.  I had gigabit fiber at my old house and miss it every day.

Daley

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2020, 09:24:14 AM »
Living with it? I found VDSL superior to Cable internet in the first place, and fiber's been better than VDSL so far. I especially like the fact that I have wide open upload speeds.

Now, the way AT&T sets their fiber service up requires there to be an ONT box wired inside the house, usually along a wall around where the existing AT&T DMARC exists outside, and another cable going from the ONT to a mandatory AT&T provided router, as AT&T insists on doing the provisioning at the router despite the ONT being able to do so. This forces you to either use their router, or pass through their router to use your own.

Be careful of AT&T's pricing, because they always bury the lede on mandatory router rental costs and extraneous taxes and fees with their internet prices, be it VDSL or fiber. It's also worth noting that AT&T is trying to decommission their copper loop and push everyone to fiber, and won't even take new VDSL orders after next month, which means ridiculous overpriced DSL prices on every tier currently, and sweet, sweet into pricing on fiber that all magically works out to the same price under the first year no matter what tier of service you choose. This guarantees that by next year, when all the dust settles on the contracts and fixed pricing being done, you're probably going to see massive price increases across the board, and good luck negotiating back down to the intro price. That's how they've worked for decades, and it's the same game plan Verizon did back when they were transitioning to fiber a decade ago. It's also worth noting that currently, the no-contract price for AT&T's 1000/1000 service, after mandatory router rental for a device they will always bill you for and taxes, actually runs about or higher than Toast's price, and Toast's price is all inclusive with a one year contract with free mandatory router and a fixed, grandfathered price, along with unlimited bandwidth. AT&T's install price is also higher than Toast's. Given Toast's current 1000/1000 price is already within about $10 of what AT&T is charging currently under promo contract with their data capped fiber service after AT&T finishes nickle and dimeing you, and historically AT&T has charged upwards of $120 after everything for the same service tier barely a year ago? What is there to lose?

It's also worth noting that Toast seems to stick with only shipping Arris routers, whereas AT&T wildcards you with one of three different models currently, and the Arris is the least problematic of the lot.

As far as what happens if Toast goes under?

First, it's not that likely in the near future, and this is the sort of company that won't just disappear like a fart in the wind. They've been around for over 20 years, and they notify and communicate with their customers any changes that may actually impact them. They seem to be financially stable, and they're not the only third party AT&T DSL/fiber provider in the nation. There's also Sonic and DSLExtreme, among others... check them out, too.

Second, so what if they do? You're already going to have AT&T's fiber installed to your house with an ONT. If suddenly Toast vanishes off the face of the planet, you still have the infrastructure and the most costly part of install already done for you, which means a self home install if you have to switch over to AT&T plugging in the new mandatory router. Assuming worst case scenario that Toast disappears without even saying, "we're closing our doors, you should get service elsewhere to avoid downtime" first, you're going to be down... what, 2-3 days? And that's assuming they don't just hand off their enterprise clients (yes, we're considered enterprise clients as Toast subscribers with AT&T personnel, which means we get treated like business clients instead of residential) to AT&T directly under that scenario to keep service working uninterrupted. And before that theoretically potentially unfortunate and fateful day, you literally had X number of months/years that you never had to deal with AT&T directly at a price that's currently actually about competitive with AT&T's fiber service out of contract, that will never increase on you, and will likely to be cheaper than AT&T's in the long run at the same service tier for the time you are with them.

This is a win/win/win scenario, dude. You really can't lose here. I'm honestly a little surprised you didn't already pull the handle last month given the way Charter's been jerking you around.

Even if you don't want to take the risk with Toast, or any other third party AT&T fiber provider? At least go to AT&T's fiber directly. Yeah, it's AT&T, but it's also their fiber service early in the game, and it's not Charter which isn't even functional for you.

The only thing I'd advise you to do is to shell out for a UPS to plug your ONT, router, and any other network and communications equipment into to ensure stable uptime and a few hours of network access after a power failure (especially important if you have home VoIP phone service). I'd also recommend disabling the AT&T router's WiFi, setting it up in bypass mode, and sticking your own router in behind it, as this will both help keep the mandatory provisioning router cooler which means it'll be lest likely to go flaky and die on you, and easier for you to use any third party VoIP services if you need to. Both bits of advice would apply whether you went AT&T directly or with Toast.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 10:10:08 AM by Daley »

robartsd

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2020, 03:08:31 PM »
I have fiber with Consolidated Communications. Mostly it's been good. A couple of times the connection has dropped repeatedly for a day or two. I couldn't identify anything on our side that was causing a problem and rebooting everything on our side didn't fix it, but the problem went away, so I assume there was something on their end that got fixed.

The fiber comes it to the ONT and from there goes to the router. The ONT is powered by a POE injector with battery backup that they installed in our basement. I'm using the router they provided because they said I could not opt out of the charge for it anyway and it was better than any router I already had. The router is pluged in to our UPS so internet connection does not go down immediately if we have a power outage. They would not provide the admin password to the router, but I found it online (and changed it on my device). I imagine that the person who posted that they have to use the AT&T provided router must do so because it is providing POE to the ONT.

Daley

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2020, 03:58:33 PM »
I imagine that the person who posted that they have to use the AT&T provided router must do so because it is providing POE to the ONT.

Nope. Nothing so clever. The Nokia G-010G-A ONT I had installed from AT&T has its own dedicated separate friggin' wall wart for power, and it's the exact same equipment AT&T uses for all their own residential and business fiber installs in this area that I've seen the past couple years. Despite the device being able to handle network provisioning and just give you a gigabit ethernet port out, AT&T refuses to do so. They literally force you to use their router, and pre-configure provisioning on it, and give you no means of access to those settings nor will they disclose them, all so they can make router rentals mandatory. The ONT is basically treated as nothing more than a fancy dumb optical to ethernet bridge, despite being able to do so much more.

Worse, the default configurations on these routers are set up to screw with traditional SIP ports for third party ATA devices, making it difficult for normal people who don't know what's going on to subscribe to VoIP home phone service from anyone but AT&T or potentially compromise network security in an effort to get it working with the limited settings you're provided. And the crap cherry on top? These recent routers are massive, power hungry devices prone to overheating and shorter life (especially sitting on its side instead of standing up so it can more easily be knocked down), mostly due to the WiFi chipsets being set up to blast out a hard 1000mW signal on both the 2.4 and 5GHz bands, whether you need it or not, while using crappy internal antennas... which creates its own set of problems with noisy and crowded spectrum issues in denser neighborhoods.

And are there integrated DC battery back-up packs for their ONT or router like they used to have? Of course not! Do they even supply a UPS anymore for the ONT as part of the install? Nope, that's an optional upgrade now... not that their fiber nodes have near as much of a battery life as their old wired counterparts during prolonged outages.

So, yeah... because AT&T wants to bleed people indefinitely with an extra $10/month charge on their internet services that they can bury in an asterisk to make their service look cheaper than it is, and try to lock people into their home phone service, they've taken equipment that could just basically give you a pleasant and simple single raw gigabit network port to do with as you saw fit using your own equipment, and turned it into an absolute proprietary charlie foxtrot. I literally have to run their stupid flaky router in passthrough mode just to authenticate with their network before running the connection into my own more secure and less ridiculously configured network equipment. The power waste alone is absurd, as is the additionally wasted space the extra equipment takes up.

It's the single most ridiculous and miserable part of having AT&T fiber, whether you get it from them directly or a third party reseller.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 04:00:24 PM by Daley »

BECABECA

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2020, 05:01:24 PM »
I have spectrum and while I also plan to drop them as soon as starlink is available, it’s just because of the way they raise the rates on a whim every few months. My service and their support has been pretty good. I would recommend calling them first: I had to two weeks ago and instead of waiting on hold you can have them call you back. Also, they were able to come out a few days later, replaced the rented router, modem, and all my outdoor couples with weatherproof ones, all at no cost. If your neighbor’s experience was from a few months ago, the volume of service calls have settled down since then.

robartsd

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 05:49:44 PM »
It's the single most ridiculous and miserable part of having AT&T fiber, whether you get it from them directly or a third party reseller.
Thanks for the info Daley. I should have looked at the name on the posting. If it was just a POE thing, I'm sure you'd have the technical skills to overcome the challenge. I've used AT&T DSL in the past, but I didn't know this about AT&T fiber. I'm pretty sure my Mom's household is on AT&T fiber (I encouraged a switch to CCI when they became frustrated with AT&T DSL reliability).

Gronnie

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 06:10:31 PM »
I had ATT fiber when I lived in Irvine and it was the fastest most reliable internet I ever had. Always a dependable 940 down / 940 up.

Spectrum where I'm at now in MN is pretty solid but doesn't offer symmetric down / up, so I switched to the upstart fiber provider in town. They are having some growing pains unfortunately though.....

ObviouslyNotAGolfer

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2020, 08:21:59 PM »
After my last post here, our connection went down for another hour plus. That was the last of many last straws.

While it was down I called Toast to get a summary of charges, installation, equipment, etc. They told me to sign up online for a discount--of course no-can-do with internet down. I waited and it finally came back up.

So, we have installation scheduled for next week--very excited! No more Charter! Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Thanks to all for your help here. Daley, thanks again, really appreciate it!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 09:49:36 PM by ObviouslyNotAGolfer »

ObviouslyNotAGolfer

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2020, 08:24:10 PM »
We are just now recovering from a 5+ hour outage. We called Toast and set up an appointment for next week. Fiber, here we come!

Daley

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Re: Should I ditch my hideous cable (Charter/Spectrum) internet for fiber??
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2020, 08:41:18 PM »
Fiber, here we come!
They've gone to plaid!

Enjoy the ludicrous speed, dude. I'm just sorry they don't have the old, cheaper $45/month 60/60 tier available for you or anyone else to order anymore.