Settling Different Spending Habits With Your Spouse

[bhendricks]

Hello, I just came across Mustachianism. I'm very happy to find a community of like-minded people.

But, one person who is not as like-minded to the typical Mustachian is my spouse. My spouse is a very smart, kind, lovely, amazing, and understanding person, and when I explain my frugal habits, investment philosophy, and anti-materialism, I'm often met with some fairly strong, rational counterpoints. I'm not used to defending these habits; I think they're rare and commendable. (I'm not used to being gently criticized for "working too hard"; I jokingly challenged my spouse to find a friend or neighbor who empathizes with her.)

Essentially, my approach is to work very hard, spend very little, and invest as much money as possible as early as possible. I've held down a very good job as well as some moonlighting freelance work for quite a while. I take Warren Buffet's advice and postpone purchases as long as possible to take advantage of investing early and compounding. My spouse keeps gently suggesting that we dig into our savings for purchases that I think are frivolous, and it's hard not to take offense -- I'm trading valuable time during my young, fit, good-looking, energetic 20s to create that savings early, not to burn a hole in anyone's pocket.

My guiding principle is discipline and delayed gratification. Things are much more enjoyable when you had to work and wait for them. But, I don't want to forget to make time to enjoy the freedom that I'm trying to earn.

My spouse... thinks I'm a little nuts. She knows I make a good living, and she doesn't like it when half of my evenings are spent doing freelance work instead of relaxing with her. She makes some points that are hard to argue with: I could enjoy the present a little more and still set myself up very well for a financially independent future. And, if my ultimate goal is happiness, and right now I'm tired, stressed, creating minor disagreements with my spouse, and missing my favorite activities, maybe I'm being counterproductive in a sense.

Could I be working a little too hard and risking "burnout"? My spouse likens my process to a long race where I'm (unwisely) sprinting at breakneck speed out of the gate instead of pacing myself. That analogy falls apart when I tell my spouse that each mile that I complete early starts propelling me 1 mile per hour faster than before, and that eventually I'll "earn" myself a bike or even a golf cart to finish the race with. I'm not sure who's right, and more importantly, I'm not sure that I want to deal with the discussion as a constant point of contention.

As any married person knows, "winning" an argument with your spouse is hardly winning anything, and if the ultimate goal -- beyond financial independence -- is happiness, I want a happy partner and a drama-free life.

Is it possible that I'm pursuing my financial freedom a little too vigorously? Is it worth irritating my spouse if I'm ultimately striving for a happy life together? Should I spend my younger years on the job, or traveling with my spouse while we're still young and fit? I don't want to regret my choices and end up as an old, financially-independent person with a pissed off spouse, both of whom are too told to enjoy their favorite things.

[projekt]

1. What are your ages, if you don't mind me asking?
2. How many years at your current savings rate will it take to reach FI?
3. What does your spouse do while you are freelancing?

[bhendricks]

1. What are your ages, if you don't mind me asking?
2. How many years at your current savings rate will it take to reach FI?
3. What does your spouse do while you are freelancing?

Hi Projekt.

1. We're both in our mid-to-late 20s
2. That's a good question. I haven't set an exact goal, but I'd like to be FI in less than 10 years. I'm not sure if that's ambitious or typical for a Mustachian.
3. My spouse does a lot of pleasure reading and occasional movies and TV shows. I try to be a little more efficient with my time -- I listen to audiobooks during drives/exercise/chores, and I choose only the very best TV shows and movies -- I feel that mediocre films and shows can be time wasters.

[psychomoustache]

I was the spendy one, and it took me years to change. This is a hard one. She has to see, or understand, the benefits of saving radically - especially at your young age.

Maybe you need to help her dream a bit, about what you'd truly like to have, and accomplish - of how you'd live if money were no longer an "issue" for you. Where do her values lie? Do you want children? Is having a lot of free time important, or is having a lot of money/stuff more important?

That's where the lifestyle changes began to speak to me, and make sense to me personally. I had to be able to invest the idea with my own hopes, wishes, dreams...

Good luck

[Jon_Snow]

Well, I am "retiring" in March 2014 at 42 years old. My wife is going to continue to work and bring home a six figure income. I am really in no position to deny her anything in terms of what she wants to spend - fortunately she is quite frugal. I look forward to seeing just how little I can spend on myself every month, and I will gently try to encourage her towards Mustachian ways, but its about all I can do... We will see how it goes.

[Beaker]

Could I be working a little too hard and risking "burnout"? My spouse likens my process to a long race where I'm (unwisely) sprinting at breakneck speed out of the gate instead of pacing myself.

There isn't any "right" speed here. Only you (and maybe your spouse) can say how much work is too much.

Is it possible that I'm pursuing my financial freedom a little too vigorously?

Yes, it's possible.

My understanding of Mustachianism is that it's not so much about living a maximally Spartan lifestyle, but rather being fully conscious of what you're spending and the costs of that. Life is about tradeoffs - Mustachianism is about making those tradeoffs consciously and with your eyes wide open (again, IMO). If you look at the full cost of doing something and decide that it's really truly worthwhile, then go ahead and do it.

I think my brother and I make an interesting comparison. My brother worked his ass off (120 hour weeks. Literally sleeping at his desk), didn't do much else and generally hated life until about he was about 35. By then he had the proverbial "fuck you money," and pretty much told his boss almost exactly that. Now he's set for life (way more than set, by the standards of many here).

I took a somewhat looser approach, working jobs I don't totally hate and "living" a little more. I've pursued some mildly expensive hobbies, taken a few nice vacations, and not worked any 120 hour weeks. I keep the costs down as much as possible, but it still costs. I'll probably hit FI at about 45, but probably will never have as much in the bank as he does.

So, which strategy is right? Neither. They both work. Just think about it with a clear head, and make a conscious decision.

[clutchy]

I have to tell you it doesn't sound like you're married.  You use a lot me and myself instead of us.

Have you considered setting joint goals instead of going each your own way?

[Spork]

You really do need to find a middle ground.  And you need to find a place where everyone feels like it is "their money" and not "your money" or "my money."

Money is probably the biggest thing that can cause couple problems.  I've been in 2 marriages.  One is successful (!).  We see eye to eye on money (and other) issues.  Working this sort of thing out is a non-thinker.  The other (failed marriage) was a constant struggle and we tried to keep finances separate.  There was always bad feelings (her in that I was too tight fisted with "my money") and me because she was always getting us into debt (which was always bailed out with "my money.")

It was a power struggle, not a partnership.

If you're on different pages, you need to find some way to partner.  You both have to feel like you're working for something in common (even if it is a middle ground).

[matchewed]

Something you may want to browse from someone who has been in your shoes.

http://www.madfientist.com/my-wife-is-not-a-fientist/

[eljay]

This isn't about money. She wants you to spend some TIME with her every day.  Watching light TV/movies is good as it doesn't take your full concentration and you can chat at the same time.

You could replace watching TV with some other more Mustachian joint activity if she agreed and was enthusiastic. e.g. make dinner from scratch together and eat while talking about your day (with TV off) OR take up some joint fitness goal OR both plan/work on a DIY project on your house.

Oh and make sure that you focus on her while doing it - don't be planning your next bit of freelance work in your head.

Divorces are expensive so allotting time to this is actually a Mustachian exercise in the end ;)

[Dee18]

I agree with eljay.  It sounds like "a very smart, kind, lovely, amazing, and understanding person" is telling you that she wants to spend more time with you.  You said she reads and watches movies while you freelance, but what might you two do if you were not freelancing?  Take some cool bike rides?  Learn to ballroom dance? Do volunteer work together? If you don't like reading and movies, choose other activities, but you said pretty clearly you want this person in your life.  Don't ignore the message.  A friend of my sister's ignored this very message and his ex-wife is now happily spending time with his medical partner who did like to enjoy life going to musical performances, theater, etc.

[secondcor521]

Is it possible that I'm pursuing my financial freedom a little too vigorously? Is it worth irritating my spouse if I'm ultimately striving for a happy life together? Should I spend my younger years on the job, or traveling with my spouse while we're still young and fit? I don't want to regret my choices and end up as an old, financially-independent person with a pissed off spouse, both of whom are too told to enjoy their favorite things.

In order:

1.  Yes, and your wife is trying to tell you this.
2.  No, and if your wife doesn´t like the gift you claim to be giving her then it isn´t a gift.  It´s just what you want.
3.  Do some inexpensive travel now, and you can take spendier trips later.

In your last sentence, you assume she´ll stay.  If you ignore her long enough, she´ll leave you, and probably take a large chunk of money.  To use your analogy, this is like getting to mile 15 in the marathon and then get strapped to an F-15 fighter jet going the other direction for about 5 miles.

[prosaic]

My spouse likens my process to a long race where I'm (unwisely) sprinting at breakneck speed out of the gate instead of pacing myself. That analogy falls apart when I tell my spouse that each mile that I complete early starts propelling me 1 mile per hour faster than before, and that eventually I'll "earn" myself a bike or even a golf cart to finish the race with. I'm not sure who's right, and more importantly, I'm not sure that I want to deal with the discussion as a constant point of contention.

You have a spouse who isn't going out and undermining your goals, but who wants an open, give-and-take discussion about how you're using your time and money.

You're in a partnership, and your last sentence, "I'm not sure that I want to deal with the discussion as a constant point of contention" -- that should have been addressed BEFORE you got married.

She appears to love you and want to spend more loving, interactive, enjoyable time with you. If you dismiss the things she enjoys, you aren't demonstrating respect for her or her desire to spend time with you. You HAVE to give something to her that SHE wants. Otherwise you're living a single life within a marriage, and yes -- what secondcor said will happen.

She will leave. It will be a slow, steady detachment that you won't see coming because you have built this ideal into your head and view it as a "gift" to her. And make no mistake -- it IS a gift. But here's a flip-side example:

In my marriage, my husband INSISTED on getting me an engagement ring when we were engaged. I didn't want it. I wanted a house, instead (down payment was about the same). He didn't understand, and went on about getting me the ring, thinking I undervalued myself and was being self-depriving. But that wasn't true -- I REALLY didn't want to wear a ring, and I REALLY wanted a house instead.

We finally had a conversation where I burst into angry tears and told him I resented being told that my self-esteem was so low and that he was treating me like a child who didn't appreciate what he was offering. That he couldn't see my point adult-to-adult was undermining the respect that I had always assumed was at the heart of our relationship.

And so he backed off, but said that some day he really wanted to get me that engagement ring, and we agreed to that.  And we bought a house, which we both adored.

7 YEARS later, we walked past a custom jewelers in a little town in Vermont and out of the corner of my eye a ring beckoned. It wasn't a standard engagement ring, but an Australian opal in a gorgeous setting. It wasn't extravagant ($400 or so), but it was a moment where I felt like my engagement ring had found me instead of being forced to find it. He was DELIGHTED to buy it on the spot (we had more money then and it wasn't a difficult expense), and I cherish it. When I was ready, what he wanted to give was exactly what I wanted to receive.

[clutchy]

My spouse likens my process to a long race where I'm (unwisely) sprinting at breakneck speed out of the gate instead of pacing myself. That analogy falls apart when I tell my spouse that each mile that I complete early starts propelling me 1 mile per hour faster than before, and that eventually I'll "earn" myself a bike or even a golf cart to finish the race with. I'm not sure who's right, and more importantly, I'm not sure that I want to deal with the discussion as a constant point of contention.

You have a spouse who isn't going out and undermining your goals, but who wants an open, give-and-take discussion about how you're using your time and money.

You're in a partnership, and your last sentence, "I'm not sure that I want to deal with the discussion as a constant point of contention" -- that should have been addressed BEFORE you got married.

She appears to love you and want to spend more loving, interactive, enjoyable time with you. If you dismiss the things she enjoys, you aren't demonstrating respect for her or her desire to spend time with you. You HAVE to give something to her that SHE wants. Otherwise you're living a single life within a marriage, and yes -- what secondcor said will happen.

She will leave. It will be a slow, steady detachment that you won't see coming because you have built this ideal into your head and view it as a "gift" to her. And make no mistake -- it IS a gift. But here's a flip-side example:

In my marriage, my husband INSISTED on getting me an engagement ring when we were engaged. I didn't want it. I wanted a house, instead (down payment was about the same). He didn't understand, and went on about getting me the ring, thinking I undervalued myself and was being self-depriving. But that wasn't true -- I REALLY didn't want to wear a ring, and I REALLY wanted a house instead.

We finally had a conversation where I burst into angry tears and told him I resented being told that my self-esteem was so low and that he was treating me like a child who didn't appreciate what he was offering. That he couldn't see my point adult-to-adult was undermining the respect that I had always assumed was at the heart of our relationship.

And so he backed off, but said that some day he really wanted to get me that engagement ring, and we agreed to that.  And we bought a house, which we both adored.

7 YEARS later, we walked past a custom jewelers in a little town in Vermont and out of the corner of my eye a ring beckoned. It wasn't a standard engagement ring, but an Australian opal in a gorgeous setting. It wasn't extravagant ($400 or so), but it was a moment where I felt like my engagement ring had found me instead of being forced to find it. He was DELIGHTED to buy it on the spot (we had more money then and it wasn't a difficult expense), and I cherish it. When I was ready, what he wanted to give was exactly what I wanted to receive.

pay attention to this.^  You've now heard from the men and the women. 

Keep your tunnel vision at your own peril.

[projekt]

Definitely the responses here are good. My wife doesn't like spending money. When I met her I was pretty spendy, but still trying to save some part of what I brought in. We both went through a career change and became very frugal in school. We found MMM just as we finished school and thought, no reason why we can't continue our lifestyle. We don't have any use for a leased Lexus so long as we have cars that run. We don't need a posh house. In fact, my wife is skeptical of anything larger than 1200 sq. ft.

On the other hand, I think it makes her very nervous not to have a cushion against unemployment or unfortunate events, and we both sort of romanticize the idea of FI. So we're pretty compatible.

However, if I were to come home from work and immediately go to work again, leaving her to herself, she would kill me in my sleep. So we are not going to do that. Even when the goal is FI, you must still be working to live.

[eljay]

Notwithstanding everything written above , if I was your wife I would give you some credit that your time is being spent on money-making activities as opposed to spending the same amount of time watching TV sports/playing online computer games/playing golf/drinking at bars etc.

[lifejoy]

Hi! Great post! For a second, I was like... hey, did I write this? :) Heh, I'm in a similar situation.

My boyfriend wants to enjoy life now, rather than obsessively saving for the future.

Here's what has helped me:

Jars. Have you seen the show Til Debt Do Us Part? They use a jar system, where you put cash into the jars. Food jar, entertainment jar, gas money jar, trips jar, clothes and gifts jar. My bf and I did the jars for a month, and it was really eye-opening to use all cash. He did it as a favour to me, and I am not making him do it more than a month. But we've created some lasting habits after going through that process. (We went from spending about $600/month on food, to $300!!)

What else has helped is to think about the times when my bf "wins" and we go do something fun that costs money. Honestly, he's probably increasing my lifetime amount of fun had.
Is that such a bad thing?

Save for trips. Budget for shows. Pick your battles.

Sometimes I ask myself - would I pay $1000/month to live with and be loved by my wonderful boyfriend? I would. And when I think, hey, if I stop bugging him about money, we'll be even happier than we already are - it's a no-brainer. If she's not being excessive, maybe you need to chill a bit. However, I know that can be tough to do. Compromise is key.

Lastly, I have to echo what everyone else is saying about spending time with her. Seriously. So important. And quality time is the qualifier; because just being in the same room doesn't count. Going for a walk, cooking together, taking her on a surprise date (that doesn't have to be expensive)... all good ideas!! Best of luck :)

[Peter]

Could I be working a little too hard and risking "burnout"? My spouse likens my process to a long race where I'm (unwisely) sprinting at breakneck speed out of the gate instead of pacing myself. That analogy falls apart when I tell my spouse that each mile that I complete early starts propelling me 1 mile per hour faster than before, and that eventually I'll "earn" myself a bike or even a golf cart to finish the race with. I'm not sure who's right, and more importantly, I'm not sure that I want to deal with the discussion as a constant point of contention.

Regarding burnout: It's not really something that will "destroy" you long term, as many complainypants excuse makers would like you to believe. The worst that can happen is you go too hard, crash for 2-3 weeks to recover, and then realize you need to work a little less hard going forward.

And regarding hard work: I don't know about you, but at 26 I don't have it in me like I did when I was 19. I haven't pulled an all-nighter in 3 years, and have no intention to ever again. I've literally let school projects etc. come to a mini-distaster the next day because of my refusal to pull all-nighters anymore. I'd say that you need to appreciate the energy you have now and use it thoroughly, because in every likelyhood it will be less when when you're 35, even less at 40, and could plummet like a rock at any time. What then?

Also, have you been letting the frequent, intense sex lessen? It's very unlikely your wife is legitimately upset that you don't watch mindless tv with her or make as much idle chit-chat as you used to, all in the name of making you and her more money. It's far more likely that her concerns stem from a lack of intimacy, starting in the bedroom.

The second most likely reason for her objections to your working so hard is she's realizing that yours and hers ambitions might be at different places. This could concern her deeply, on a fundamental level, as she imagines you becoming wildly successful and leaving her for a younger, more ambitious woman down the road.

If the marital drama continues, you might consider addressing these fundamental concerns first, instead of surficial complains about "working too hard" or "quality time" (infront of the tv) which may be a smokescreen for the real issues that she's unwilling or too afraid to discuss.