Senate votes to repeal ACA

[Gin1984]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4641262/senate-votes-51-48-repeal-obamacare
So those who said it would not be repealed.... are you sure?

[rantk81]

:(

[minimalistgamer]

If they come up with a system that is better than the ACA, this is perfectly fine with me. I am not loyal to any party or a system (except Capitalism, which rocks!).

I wouldn't necessarily call Obamacare a total disaster, but it certainly did not help reduce the cost of healthcare for us.

[prognastat]

If they come up with a system that is better than the ACA, this is perfectly fine with me. I am not loyal to any party or a system (except Capitalism, which rocks!).

I wouldn't necessarily call Obamacare a total disaster, but it certainly did not help reduce the cost of healthcare for us.

Though I agree that ACA was very flawed I doubt they are planning on setting up something more effective at helping more Americans. If they were interested in doing that they would have been working on that before repealing the ACA.

I would gladly be proven wrong though.

[jim555]

There is no plan.  They have had years to get one and nothing.
I think they are going to be sorry when they screw over 20 million people and give them no replacement.

[Gin1984]

If they come up with a system that is better than the ACA, this is perfectly fine with me. I am not loyal to any party or a system (except Capitalism, which rocks!).

I wouldn't necessarily call Obamacare a total disaster, but it certainly did not help reduce the cost of healthcare for us.

Honestly I am less concerned about affordability (which honestly 10% of your gross income towards health insurance does not bother me) and more about access.  I had no access to non-employer insurance prior to ACA because of hurting my back during college.  I could not get insurance on the private market for ANY amount of money so I COBRAed at 30% of my gross income.  IMO, those who say it did not reduce their care either were very lucky or had employer insurance that they never had to COBRA because ACA just made employer priced insurance available to those of us without it.

[OurTown]

"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

[begood]

There is no plan.  They have had years to get one and nothing.
I think they are going to be sorry when they screw over 20 million people and give them no replacement.

I don't think they will be sorry. I don't think they give a shit about those 20 million people. And if the message didn't get through to those "keep your government out of my Medicare" voters before the election, they are unlikely to assign blame correctly after it.

[Indio]

There is no plan.  They have had years to get one and nothing.
I think they are going to be sorry when they screw over 20 million people and give them no replacement.

Saw an article that estimated 5M out of the 20M were Republicans so they want to make sure they have a plan for their supporters.

[Gin1984]

There is no plan.  They have had years to get one and nothing.
I think they are going to be sorry when they screw over 20 million people and give them no replacement.

Saw an article that estimated 5M out of the 20M were Republicans so they want to make sure they have a plan for their supporters.

I doubt it, their plan was the ACA prior to Obama suggesting it as a compromise.

[mathlete]

I wouldn't necessarily call Obamacare a total disaster, but it certainly did not help reduce the cost of healthcare for us.

I don't think there is much we can do to reduce the cost of healthcare outside of government price-setting or care rationing.

Compared with the average OECD nation, the US has twice as many MRIs and CT scans, 67% more bypasses, 86% more knee replacements, and 27% more c-sections.

We spend a lot on healthcare because we consume a lot of healthcare.

I get why people were frustrated by the ACA, but I'm not sure how much better we can do.

[Paul der Krake]

I get why people were frustrated by the ACA, but I'm not sure how much better we can do.

Stop being so god damn unhealthy. The average American is a slob. Either shame them to death like smokers 30 years ago, or have real incentives in place.

Demand price controls: why is a monthly pack of birth control pills $30+ for an American woman, and $3 for virtually everyone else?

[CheapskateWife]

I get why people were frustrated by the ACA, but I'm not sure how much better we can do.

Stop being so god damn unhealthy. The average American is a slob. Either shame them to death like smokers 30 years ago, or have real incentives in place.

Demand price controls: why is a monthly pack of birth control pills $30+ for an American woman, and $3 for virtually everyone else?

THIS +10000! 

Damn right!  Its in everyone's best interests for women to be able to manage their birth rates.  But the pharma's charge what they can get away with because many women are willing to pay that much to manage their wombs.  I <3 capitalism, but this and epipens are medical needs that I believe suit the common good.  What I want to know is why do we as a society hand out SNAP benefits (feeding folks that can't quite feed themselves) and vilify (BC pill are murder!) those of us who work hard to make sure we aren't making more mouths to feed than we can realistically manage.

[MrsPete]

Demand price controls: why is a monthly pack of birth control pills $30+ for an American woman, and $3 for virtually everyone else?

They're more like $5/month. 

[mathlete]

Stop being so god damn unhealthy. The average American is a slob. Either shame them to death like smokers 30 years ago, or have real incentives in place.

I guess that's one route to go. The American people don't generally respond well to the government telling them how to live. Michelle Obama's big mission from the start was tackling childhood obesity and even something as benign as that got people completely freaked out and politicized. See also: Jimmy Carter telling people to put on a sweater instead of turning up the heat during the energy crisis.

While I think everyone should try to live a healthier lifestyle, there are plenty of expensive conditions that exist independent of lifestyle choices like cancer.

And even healthy people get old and sick eventually. Genworth says that the cost of long-term care facilities have been increasing  at 4.5% a year. And we have an aging population.

[mathlete]

Damn right!  Its in everyone's best interests for women to be able to manage their birth rates.  But the pharma's charge what they can get away with because many women are willing to pay that much to manage their wombs.  I <3 capitalism, but this and epipens are medical needs that I believe suit the common good.  What I want to know is why do we as a society hand out SNAP benefits (feeding folks that can't quite feed themselves) and vilify (BC pill are murder!) those of us who work hard to make sure we aren't making more mouths to feed than we can realistically manage.

Couldn't disagree more. Fertility in the US has already fallen below replacement. The median age has increased from about 30 to about 38 since the 1980s.

We're already creating an old, sick, dependent population.

Older people consume a lot of public spending and rely on a younger and healthier population to support them.

[CheapskateWife]

Demand price controls: why is a monthly pack of birth control pills $30+ for an American woman, and $3 for virtually everyone else?

They're more like $5/month.

Sorry Mrs Pete, but it probably depends on the insurance.  My copay is $30 per month for BC pills.

[Gal2016]

Insurance companies have to provide birth control pills for free -- unless you've got one of the high tech birth control pills.  But basic birth control pills -- yeah, free.

[Dollar Slice]

Demand price controls: why is a monthly pack of birth control pills $30+ for an American woman, and $3 for virtually everyone else?

They're more like $5/month.

Sorry Mrs Pete, but it probably depends on the insurance.  My copay is $30 per month for BC pills.

I used to pay a $30 copay also, and one month I needed to pick them up a few days early because I was going on a long trip. The insurance wouldn't cover it so I asked how much it would be without insurance... the answer? $31. My insurance was covering a whole dollar every month!

I <3 capitalism, but this and epipens are medical needs that I believe suit the common good. 

There have been a TON of medications jacked up like the epipen that haven't made the news. I have had asthma/allergy problems since childhood, and I've had five different medications soar in price (3 for asthma, 1 epipen, and 1 cream to treat dermatological reactions). All of them are extremely common medications and most of them have been around for many years. It's all profiteering because there are no regulations to prevent it.

It's all very well to tell me to "stop being so god damn unhealthy" but when your mom smoked throughout your childhood and her pregnancy you might just be stuck with some medical issues for life. :-( 

[OurTown]

Insurance companies have to provide birth control pills for free -- unless you've got one of the high tech birth control pills.  But basic birth control pills -- yeah, free.

Birth control should be provided for free . . . worldwide. 

[Gin1984]

Demand price controls: why is a monthly pack of birth control pills $30+ for an American woman, and $3 for virtually everyone else?

They're more like $5/month.

Sorry Mrs Pete, but it probably depends on the insurance.  My copay is $30 per month for BC pills.

I used to pay a $30 copay also, and one month I needed to pick them up a few days early because I was going on a long trip. The insurance wouldn't cover it so I asked how much it would be without insurance... the answer? $31. My insurance was covering a whole dollar every month!

I <3 capitalism, but this and epipens are medical needs that I believe suit the common good. 

There have been a TON of medications jacked up like the epipen that haven't made the news. I have had asthma/allergy problems since childhood, and I've had five different medications soar in price (3 for asthma, 1 epipen, and 1 cream to treat dermatological reactions). All of them are extremely common medications and most of them have been around for many years. It's all profiteering because there are no regulations to prevent it.

It's all very well to tell me to "stop being so god damn unhealthy" but when your mom smoked throughout your childhood and her pregnancy you might just be stuck with some medical issues for life. :-(

Or like me, I tried to do that "responsible" thing and not get student loans so worked through college, as a server.  Being small and working or going to school 18hr a day caused back issues.  Looking back would it have been fiscally better to not have this medical issue and just have taken the damn loan, yep.  However that does not help now.

[aprilchem]

My birth control pills cost $350 a month, with insurance, before the ACA.  I need to take a special pill - I use the BC not only to prevent pregnancy but to manage polycystic ovary syndrome (I have a very severe case).

After ACA they were free.  I am not looking forward to having to pay $4200 a year for a necessary medication again. I'm also VERY sad that my mother and several other relatives will likely lose their healthcare because they were "uninsurable" before the ACA.  My son, who has epilepsy, would most certainly be considered uninsurable one he reaches adulthood.

I've also heard a lot of talk about getting rid of medicare as well.  If I was over 65 I'd be socking a lot of money away for healthcare now just in case. :(

[cj25]

I still don't get how the ACA got everyone insurance.  My dad is 59 and kinda forced retired.  He brings $1400 a month from pension.  After any side work he may have, his income is maybe $24k per year.  Yet for him to get insurance thru Obamacare it was $60 per month with a $10,000 deductible or almost $400 a month with a couple hundred deductible.  Neither of which he can afford.  These were after the credits. 

My mom used to buy her own PPO from Blue Cross for around $350 a month.  After ACA, her plan was gone and the next plan available was over $1500 a month with a huge deductible.

So I just don't understand how this benefited people. 

[tarheeldan]

This is one way it benefited people:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/193556/uninsured-rate-remains-historical-low.aspx

See also pre-existing conditions.

Did it also have lots of problems? Yes.

[BTDretire]

Insurance companies have to provide birth control pills for free -- unless you've got one of the high tech birth control pills.  But basic birth control pills -- yeah, free.

  Free? maybe to the user but all the other insured pay extra every month to pay for that 'free' item.

[Lagom]

Nothing the GOP proposes will be better. Best case scenario it will be similar with different flaws than ACA. The main way to improve on the ACA would be to create a single payer system, but that's not happening any time soon.

[golden1]

If they come up with a system that is better than the ACA, this is perfectly fine with me.

Obama agrees with you. 

I've also heard a lot of talk about getting rid of medicare as well.  If I was over 65 I'd be socking a lot of money away for healthcare now just in case. :(

Nah, it's the gen Xrs and millennials that are going to get screwed, because they will hollow out medicare for people not on it by capping lifetime premiums.  The boomers want nothing more than to screw over their kids and grandkids apparently while living off the dole in their dotage.   

[Gin1984]

I still don't get how the ACA got everyone insurance.  My dad is 59 and kinda forced retired.  He brings $1400 a month from pension.  After any side work he may have, his income is maybe $24k per year.  Yet for him to get insurance thru Obamacare it was $60 per month with a $10,000 deductible or almost $400 a month with a couple hundred deductible.  Neither of which he can afford.  These were after the credits. 

My mom used to buy her own PPO from Blue Cross for around $350 a month.  After ACA, her plan was gone and the next plan available was over $1500 a month with a huge deductible.

So I just don't understand how this benefited people.

That is not possible, the max for a single person was $6,850 under the ACA.  Btw, you do realize that if your dad is disabled without the ACA he could not get health insurance at all? 
What state do they live in?  Because my mom has a single plan, $600 and change before any subsidy with a $6750 OOPM and being a single person, making under $47K, the subsidy drops it down to under $400.  And then she turns around and maxes her HSA, just like any person here would and after two year she does not have to worry about the OOPM.

[protostache]

So I just don't understand how this benefited people.

Prior to ACA there were large swaths of the population that couldn't get health insurance at any price. They either had to work a job that allowed access to group health insurance, pay through the nose for the high risk pool insurance in their state assuming their state actually had this (only 30 or so states did before ACA required it in 2010 and most of them did not cover preexisting conditions), or go without.

I myself am in that population, as is my wife. When these bills get passed that repeal the subsidies and the mandates without repealing the preexisting condition guarantee and the private insurance market evaporates over night, we'll be back to hunting for a job instead of running our own business. This is also extremely relevant to those of us on this forum that are FIREd or close to it.

So yes. Some people paid more. Heck, almost everyone is paying more. But a large percentage of the population are grateful to be paying anything because this is the first time they've been able to have non-job-linked health insurance ever.

Insurance companies have to provide birth control pills for free -- unless you've got one of the high tech birth control pills.  But basic birth control pills -- yeah, free.

  Free? maybe to the user but all the other insured pay extra every month to pay for that 'free' item.

This is the definition of insurance. Literally every type of insurance is about sharing costs across a large pool of people such that any one individual doesn't bear the full brunt of the costs. Besides which, society gains when women are empowered to make their own decisions.

[NESailor]

Nothing the GOP proposes will be better. Best case scenario it will be similar with different flaws than ACA. The main way to improve on the ACA would be to create a single payer system, but that's not happening any time soon.

Bingo!  Ideology before country (and common sense) because FREEDOM!

[BTDretire]

 I always come back to my experience.
 I have a family of four, I'm older at 61 wife is 57, age creates higher prices.
I'm paying $8,800 a year for a BCBS policy $10,000 deductible and Max Out Of Pocket.
I pay $10,000 and I'm done, the rest is covered.

  I just looked up prices on healthcare.gov.
The Obama plans are;
 A middle Bronze plan is $17,304, with a $12,700 deductible.
The low end Silver plan is $20,040, with a $13,000 deductible.
The high end Silver is $31,788 with a $10,000 deductible and $13,777 OOP.

They start at 2 times the cost of my private policy.
The taxpayer provided subsidy is what allows people to buy the government policy,
 In my case I put in $80,000 as my income, this produces a subsidy of $13,440.
 I think this is a joke, they have inflated policy prices but then take money from
hardworking taxpayers to give to someone makeing $80,000.
It's joke, but it not funny!

[mathlete]

Bingo!  Ideology before country (and common sense) because FREEDOM!

I think we should guarantee free healthcare for all Americans. There are obvious reasons to oppose it that go beyond "FREEDOM!" though.

Namely that for high income individuals, it will be worse care for more money.

[bacchi]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4641262/senate-votes-51-48-repeal-obamacare
So those who said it would not be repealed.... are you sure?

This was a budget vote that allows for defunding the ACA. It doesn't repeal it. That's yet to come.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/health/obamacare-florida-republican/index.html

^^^ This guy...wow. Talk about voting against your own self interests.

[Gin1984]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4641262/senate-votes-51-48-repeal-obamacare
So those who said it would not be repealed.... are you sure?

This was a budget vote that allows for defunding the ACA. It doesn't repeal it. That's yet to come.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/health/obamacare-florida-republican/index.html

^^^ This guy...wow. Talk about voting against your own self interests.

It is effectively a repeal. 

[bacchi]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4641262/senate-votes-51-48-repeal-obamacare
So those who said it would not be repealed.... are you sure?

This was a budget vote that allows for defunding the ACA. It doesn't repeal it. That's yet to come.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/health/obamacare-florida-republican/index.html

^^^ This guy...wow. Talk about voting against your own self interests.

It is effectively a repeal.

It makes a repeal filibuster proof. It is not a repeal.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/republicans-may-not-have-senate-votes-to-repeal-obamacare.html

Now, it is possible some or all of the unhappy GOP senators can be convinced to vote for the budget resolution that makes the Obamacare repeal possible in a filibuster-proof budget-reconciliation bill, on grounds that the repeal won’t actually be put into place until the reconciliation bill itself is passed. And then GOP strategists can take their sweet time building support for a more specific repeal plan with effective dates and at least the glimmering idea of a replacement plan.

[bacchi]

I always come back to my experience.
 I have a family of four, I'm older at 61 wife is 57, age creates higher prices.
I'm paying $8,800 a year for a BCBS policy $10,000 deductible and Max Out Of Pocket.
I pay $10,000 and I'm done, the rest is covered.

  I just looked up prices on healthcare.gov.
The Obama plans are;
 A middle Bronze plan is $17,304, with a $12,700 deductible.
The low end Silver plan is $20,040, with a $13,000 deductible.
The high end Silver is $31,788 with a $10,000 deductible and $13,777 OOP.

They start at 2 times the cost of my private policy.
The taxpayer provided subsidy is what allows people to buy the government policy,
 In my case I put in $80,000 as my income, this produces a subsidy of $13,440.
 I think this is a joke, they have inflated policy prices but then take money from
hardworking taxpayers to give to someone makeing $80,000.
It's joke, but it not funny!

ACA plans don't cost more just because they're on healthcare.gov.

[Greenback Reproduction Specialist]

All I can say is, its about time.....

I don't have a problem with everything in the law, but the big thing that totally irked me,

Lets not forget how this law originally passed, entirely on part line, without any republican involvement. It was done legally, but in such shady, rushed fashion. I'm sorry, but this is what happens when you exclude half the country in passing a bill that FORCES EVERY PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY TO DO SOMETHING, even if the they don't want to. You cant just ignore the other half of the country when you do something like this, no matter how bad you want it, or how good you think it will be for everyone. Why do you think their are such strong feelings against it?

[prognastat]

All I can say is, its about time.....

I don't have a problem with everything in the law, but the big thing that totally irked me,

Lets not forget how this law originally passed, entirely on part line, without any republican involvement. It was done legally, but in such shady, rushed fashion. I'm sorry, but this is what happens when you exclude half the country in passing a bill that FORCES EVERY PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY TO DO SOMETHING, even if the they don't want to. You cant just ignore the other half of the country when you do something like this, no matter how bad you want it, or how good you think it will be for everyone. Why do you think their are such strong feelings against it?

Unlike republicans trying to repeal it or change tax laws? Over half of the votes went to Hillary so I doubt you can make the argument that the vast majority of Americans want what you are advocating. Saying that almost half the country doesn't want something and thus should not be forced to do it? Welcome to democracy.

[Cpa Cat]

Just to clarify this "How much does birth control really cost" debate: I take a totally generic normal type of birth control. $28.20/mo without insurance at Walgreens. Just got an initial bill today because my insurance changed and they didn't have the new one.

I do know one person who claims she got pregnant because she couldn't afford pre-ACA birth control (the logic of that statement doesn't kind fit with my mindset, but there you go). But personally, I don't think the cost of birth control is actually the highest priority issue that we have with our medical system.

Other point of clarification: The Senate actually voted on a resolution to open the debate to repeal ACA. They didn't vote to actually repeal it, despite what the CSPAN headline says.

[mathlete]

All I can say is, its about time.....

I don't have a problem with everything in the law, but the big thing that totally irked me,

Lets not forget how this law originally passed, entirely on part line, without any republican involvement. It was done legally, but in such shady, rushed fashion. I'm sorry, but this is what happens when you exclude half the country in passing a bill that FORCES EVERY PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY TO DO SOMETHING, even if the they don't want to. You cant just ignore the other half of the country when you do something like this, no matter how bad you want it, or how good you think it will be for everyone. Why do you think their are such strong feelings against it?

I'm being a bit pedantic here, but Republicans don't represent half the country. No political party does. At the time the ACA was passed, they mad up less than 42% of the voting congress.

People have strong feelings about ACA because healthcare is expensive and everyone wants it and no one wants to pay for it.

[Mr Dorothy Dollar]

All I can say is, its about time.....

I don't have a problem with everything in the law, but the big thing that totally irked me,

Lets not forget how this law originally passed, entirely on part line, without any republican involvement. It was done legally, but in such shady, rushed fashion. I'm sorry, but this is what happens when you exclude half the country in passing a bill that FORCES EVERY PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY TO DO SOMETHING, even if the they don't want to. You cant just ignore the other half of the country when you do something like this, no matter how bad you want it, or how good you think it will be for everyone. Why do you think their are such strong feelings against it?

Isn't it being repealed along party lines? And in all likelihood isn't all of the government's agenda for at least 2 years gong to be along party lines with half the US being left out. Your statements seem very partisan or hypocritical.

[Greenback Reproduction Specialist]

All I can say is, its about time.....

I don't have a problem with everything in the law, but the big thing that totally irked me,

Lets not forget how this law originally passed, entirely on part line, without any republican involvement. It was done legally, but in such shady, rushed fashion. I'm sorry, but this is what happens when you exclude half the country in passing a bill that FORCES EVERY PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY TO DO SOMETHING, even if the they don't want to. You cant just ignore the other half of the country when you do something like this, no matter how bad you want it, or how good you think it will be for everyone. Why do you think their are such strong feelings against it?

Unlike republicans trying to repeal it or change tax laws? Over half of the votes went to Hillary so I doubt you can make the argument that the vast majority of Americans want what you are advocating. Saying that almost half the country doesn't want something and thus should not be forced to do it? Welcome to democracy.

So you believe gov should tell people how to live and how much of their income they get to keep? Or how they get to spend it?

[mathlete]

So you believe gov should tell people how to live and how much of their income they get to keep? Or how they get to spend it?

This is a fact of life in any country worth living in.

[NESailor]

Bingo!  Ideology before country (and common sense) because FREEDOM!

I think we should guarantee free healthcare for all Americans. There are obvious reasons to oppose it that go beyond "FREEDOM!" though.

Namely that for high income individuals, it will be worse care for more money.

You don't think there will be doctors catering to the self-paying high income crowd?  That's how it works in every other developed single payer country.  My home country (not the US) including.

[Quidnon?]

There have been a TON of medications jacked up like the epipen that haven't made the news. I have had asthma/allergy problems since childhood, and I've had five different medications soar in price (3 for asthma, 1 epipen, and 1 cream to treat dermatological reactions). All of them are extremely common medications and most of them have been around for many years. It's all profiteering because there are no regulations to prevent it.

Actually, that's not quite true.  These companies can get away with jacking up the prices because they have government enforced monopolies.  The pharma industry in the US is not an example of capitalism at work.  Without those long patent terms providing these companies with an enforceable monopoly, all pharma prices would trend towards their total production & distribution costs.  Not necessarily cheap, but cheaper than they are now. 

[Greenback Reproduction Specialist]

People have strong feelings about ACA because healthcare is expensive and everyone wants it and no one wants to pay for it.

Yes and some of us don't want to be forced into paying for something we don't need or want.

Isn't it being repealed along party lines? And in all likelihood isn't all of the government's agenda for at least 2 years gong to be along party lines with half the US being left out. Your statements seem very partisan or hypocritical.

It probably is, and to the extent I have been vocal about the injustice over the last 8 years, I will do my best to be vocal about the injustices likely to occur in the next 8 years.... Which is part of the reason I don't think gov should be meddling in our affairs to begin with, because both sides are guilty of it. We don't need those wacko birds telling us how to live our lives.... We really just don't.

[mathlete]

You don't think there will be doctors catering to the self-paying high income crowd?  That's how it works in every other developed single payer country.  My home country (not the US) including.

I think there definitely would be.

Net result for high income people still includes paying more money for less care though. They just have the option of paying even more money to get the same level of care they were already getting.

I'm really not trying to knock single-payer and the optional additional coverage that is available in countries with single-payer. I'd be happy if something like that got implemented in the US.

Just saying that there are people who stand to lose in the move. For a large percentage of Americans, the healthcare system works out spectacularly.

[Quidnon?]

All I can say is, its about time.....

I don't have a problem with everything in the law, but the big thing that totally irked me,

Lets not forget how this law originally passed, entirely on part line, without any republican involvement. It was done legally, but in such shady, rushed fashion. I'm sorry, but this is what happens when you exclude half the country in passing a bill that FORCES EVERY PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY TO DO SOMETHING, even if the they don't want to. You cant just ignore the other half of the country when you do something like this, no matter how bad you want it, or how good you think it will be for everyone. Why do you think their are such strong feelings against it?

Unlike republicans trying to repeal it or change tax laws? Over half of the votes went to Hillary so I doubt you can make the argument that the vast majority of Americans want what you are advocating. Saying that almost half the country doesn't want something and thus should not be forced to do it? Welcome to democracy.

The United States is not a democracy.  Never has been.

[Greenback Reproduction Specialist]

The United States is not a democracy.  Never has been.

Thanks, I didn't want to have to be the one to get all technical up in here :)

[mathlete]

Yes and some of us don't want to be forced into paying for something we don't need or want.

Certainly an understandable feeling to have about the situation. This is an issue with rule by popular sovereignty though, more than it is an issue specifically with what Congress did in 2010.

I don't need or want Medicare. That was decided on by a bunch of people long before I was born. We still spend $500 billion a year on it though. Thems the breaks I guess.