Author Topic: Scared to start - tell me your stories!  (Read 4528 times)

HeyMickey!

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Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« on: May 21, 2019, 06:30:40 AM »
Hey all! I love MMM philosophy and FIRE, but I'm just plain scared to start. I (luckily) have no debt, don't earn much tho/renting and I'm scared to take what money I have and just fire it into investment space. Did you guys have this issue and how did you overcome it? Thanks!

DadJokes

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2019, 06:59:27 AM »
I think the best solution to the fear is just looking at the history of the stock market. JL Collins has a (so far) 35 part series on investing, which starts here: https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/

In one of the early parts, he points out all of the things that have happened since he started investing.

Quote
The great recession of 1974-75.
The massive inflation of the late 1970s & early 1980.  Raise your hand if you remember WIN buttons (Whip Inflation Now).  Mortgage rates were pushing 20%.  You could buy 10-year Treasuries paying 15%+.
The now infamous 1979 Business Week cover:  “The Death of Equities,” which, as it turned out, marked the coming of the greatest bull market of all time.
The Crash of 1987.  Biggest one day drop in history.  Brokers were, literally, on the window ledges and more than a couple took the leap.
The recession of the  early ’90s.
The  Tech Crash of the late ’90s.
9/11.
And that little dust-up in 2008.

Despite all of that craziness, a $1,000 investment in the S&P 500 in January of 1974 would be worth nearly $29k today, which is an annualized return of 7.8%. You're not going to beat that anywhere else.

It's all about knowing that you are in it for the long haul. Market goes up? You're making money. Market goes down? Every dollar invested buys even more stock. It's a win/win when you operate with that mindset, because you know that the market will always go up over time.

And if it crashes and doesn't recover? Then there was nowhere you could put your money to keep it safe.

CheapScholar

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2019, 07:53:31 AM »
A case study would help.  You don’t earn much.  Are you in good health and willing to find a side hustle or work very hard in your current line of work to up your pay?  Assuming you’re American, do you have access to a 401(k) or similar tax deferred savings plan?  For me, the turning point was doing the math and realizing how much I was avoiding in taxes and also saving.  It adds up fast if you make even a few lifestyle changes and watch your spending.

Maenad

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2019, 08:34:43 AM »
Also, make sure you have your emergency fund fully funded before you start investing. Then you won't be in the scary situation of a recession both taking out your job and cutting deeply into your investment balance.

The Investment Order can help: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/investment-order/

FI45RE

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2019, 08:42:03 AM »
Hey all! I love MMM philosophy and FIRE, but I'm just plain scared to start. I (luckily) have no debt, don't earn much tho/renting and I'm scared to take what money I have and just fire it into investment space. Did you guys have this issue and how did you overcome it? Thanks!

The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement

Cezil

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2019, 08:53:47 AM »
I (luckily) have no debt, don't earn much tho/renting and I'm scared to take what money I have and just fire it into investment space. Did you guys have this issue and how did you overcome it? Thanks!

Good job on the no debt!  You've got a great start right there.  I started with over $50,000 in student loans.  At that point, my head was stuck firmly in the sand and I didn't realize it was actually that bad.  Sigh.  Live and Learn.  In 2013 or so, I got serious, tightened up the belt, and paid off the final one in 2017 at some time.  I was making pretty large monthly payments so I wasn't really missing the money.  The money then went to pay off other lower-interest debts.  When that got paid off, the cash excess, which I had been living without since 2013, started getting put into my 401k.  That's where most of it is going.  This year, I'm paying off 0% medical debt on the lowest dollar amount they'll let me.  I'm stretched thinner than ever before, having not changed my pre-tax contribution to accommodate for this new bill.

I suppose I had the advantage of out-of-sight, out-of-mind on that money.  I was used to not seeing the $1k/month in my checking account.  I guess if I didn't have that "advantage", it might be stark for me to just cold turkey start putting that away.  My SO had a tough transition when he finally got onboard, but after about 6 months, while he was still shocked at his lower paycheck, it was offset with the joy of seeing his dividends in his pre and post tax accounts grow each quarter.  He now no longer misses the cash.  Maybe starting slower would help because you'd tighten that belt to snug, but not too tight, over a larger time period.  (SO went from 6% pre-tax contribution to 30% in one paycheck.  Not everyone can mentally get around that right off the bat.)

Chrissy

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2019, 08:55:58 AM »
I didn't start with investing, I started with cutting expenses.  Once I had more money accumulating in my account every month, investing didn't seem like such a risk.

Socmonkey

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2019, 02:35:12 PM »
I agree with Chrissy, first you read, watch, and learn how to cut your expenses. First, by the simple things like making sure your recurring monthly expenses like insurance and internet are as low as they can go for what you REALLY need (You learn what you really need by reading and learning from others seeking financial independence). Also that your recurring expenses are actually things you need in the first place.

Then you can hit things like evaluating if you can move elsewhere and save on rent, or if moving closer to work will save you enough to make it worthwhile (think commuting time and expense). Then move on to the smaller expenses that add up to a whole lot when you add them up (lunches out, snacks, impulse purchases). Cut back, find less expensive alternatives, etc.

Once you get your spending in control and efficient, then you can think about how to earn more. Side hustles, extra job, work promotion, education, what have you. For me, it's reselling on eBay as I love the treasure hunt. For someone else, it might be fixing electronics or writing or building whirligigs. When I started earning extra cash I did stuff like secret shopping and taking product photos for apps like easyshift.

Trust me, investing is a lot less scary when you know you don't need as much money to pay the bills every month and you also have more money coming in.

Kay-Ell

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2019, 02:57:09 PM »
I love how happy and willing this forum is to share experiences and offer advice when a new person comes in with curiosity and enthusiasm.

OP, like you I’ve never had a very high paying job. I also don’t have a college education but was able to increase my earnings steadily over time. One of the big first steps to saving and investing is to track your spending. Mint is a great tool for this. Once you know what you’re spending your money on you can decide where it makes sense to cut back. And once you’ve decided what makes sense you can set lofty goals for yourself and stay accountable to them. If you think you can cut your expenses by $100/paycheck then shunt that $100 off to whatever savings vehicle you’re comfortable with. Save something, even if it doesn’t seem like much. If your company has a 401k, definitely start your investment journey there. It was a lot easier for me when it was taken directly out of my paycheck and simultaneously reduced my tax withholding so I was investing more dollars than my paycheck was being reduced by. Next, stash windfalls into your investment accounts. Bonuses, tax returns, overtime, side hustle income. You name it. Over time as you get raises, send the addition off to investments unless you’re absolutely sure you want to inflate your budget going forward.

It takes time, but it’s easier and less scary than you think. The important part is to get started with what you have and build over time through optimization of your expenses and income.

Parizade

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 03:11:30 PM »
Also, make sure you have your emergency fund fully funded before you start investing. Then you won't be in the scary situation of a recession both taking out your job and cutting deeply into your investment balance.

The Investment Order can help: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/investment-order/

I agree, using the Investment Order advice takes a lot of the "scary" out of the process.

ice1717

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2019, 09:37:02 AM »
Fear is a big part of what keeps people from getting ahead.  Look at all the stories in the media about the widening gap in wealth.  A portion of that is driven by some people being scared of investing and missing out on growing their money.  Of course this also ties to having money that you can "risk". 

I'll 2nd (or maybe 4th or 5th) the investment order strategy as being very helpful.  It does two really important things.  1. It gives a formula to follow, taking the guess work out of the process and making it "easy" to make steps forward.  No more analysis-paralysis getting in the way.  2. It gets you to the point where you have extra money that you "might as well do something with".   

For me, I became very comfortable once I started with a 401k and my match.  I received a 100% gain when I got my match, so it was a relatively risk free gain.  And, as a bonus I got to see my account grow with the market.  Honestly, it became kind of addictive from there and now I hate to see money laying around not in the market. 

jojoguy

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 10:45:51 AM »
My short story:

  I went from having $53,000 that was accumulated 401K between me and my wife over a period of 18 years this past September(discovered MMM and FIRE movement) and now our savings(401K, taxable accounts, cash savings, etc.) have accumulated to around $115,000. Only $105K of it is being invested. We have 10K set aside for emergencies and getting our roof done soon. We both have lower level jobs as well in retail. How`s that for motivation?

Edit:

Oh, and one more thing. I learned about credit card churning as well. Me and my wife both have thus far $1,000 and rising travel points saved up towards our next vacation overseas in a couple of years. My goal is for our trip to cost us next to nothing.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 10:51:52 AM by jojoguy »

Parizade

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2019, 04:00:22 PM »
Honestly, it became kind of addictive from there and now I hate to see money laying around not in the market.

I never would have believed this when I started out but it certainly became true for me too. The funny thing is I think the crash of 2008 actually got me over my fear. At the time I was freaking out over how small my 401k had become and a friend reminded me I hadn't actually lost anything. I still had the same number of shares I had before, and if they went down they could go back up again. Which they did. So now market fluctuations don't bother me as much, it's just part of the plan and it all goes up over time if you are patient.

Adam Zapple

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2019, 06:04:45 AM »
If you are looking to use a work-based plan, such as a 401k, I think you will find it easier to "set and forget".  Choose a low fee index fund and just let it ride. 

If you really can't get over this first hurdle, I suggest opening the account as priority number one.  Then start contributing but stick with mostly money market funds (which can't lose value) and perhaps 10-20% stocks.  Then make a plan to increase the percentage of stocks over a period of time.  Continue educating yourself over this time.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 09:40:42 AM by Adam Zapple »

MoneyTree

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2019, 09:56:55 PM »
To be totally honest, I am more scared of having idle (uninvested) cash.

Think of it this way, each dollar you have is like a little worker that can earn an income that they give directly to you. Do you want those little workers out there, making you money, or sitting at home on the couch, doing nothing?

The fear of getting started is understandable, but maybe the fear of missing out can help to counteract that.

Livingthedream55

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2019, 12:18:35 PM »
https://www.ftportfolios.com/Common/ContentFileLoader.aspx?ContentGUID=4ecfa978-d0bb-4924-92c8-628ff9bfe12d

This chart helps me think long term. Don't try to time the market. Just consistently invest, month in and month out, no matter what the market is doing.

hernandz

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2019, 12:51:24 AM »
Investing is not a natural instinct, it is learned behavior.  And learning involves mistakes, and quite often losing money. The "trick" is to find a way so that the losses aren't devastating and the gains are slightly more predictable while you learn more about what it is you invest in.

 My own investing education largely comes from an investment club I help found, using the ideas of Better Investing("BI").   The basic idea is crowd-sourcing.  A group of people agree to kick in a small amount, and invest the proceeds as a group but don't rely on a professional money manager. Clubs should decide on rules about what they will invest in - stocks, bonds, cryptocurrency, real estate, businesses etc. 

Mathematically, it's really hard to beat index funds. But clubs have a human/emotional support component that makes first-time investing more appealing and doesn't  cost very much money to get started (there is definitely an investment of time and effort).   In recent years, there have been some financial start-ups that try to make investing more appealing to first-timers either with emotional or cost appeals.  You might want to investigate those options as well, and compare.

My club has about a dozen members, who each kick in $50/month.  Whenever we have collected $2,000, we only invest in stocks that (mostly) meet the BI criteria.  The ideal stock for us is a company that has been publicly owned for 5-10 years and has a steady record of increasing its revenue, increasing its profitability, and increasing its dividend (yes, we now know how to research that).  We want a stock that we think we would enjoy owning for 2-10 years.  We do have a kind of checklist and we vote--and many stocks don't make the cut.  Have we made some terrible decisions?  Oh, yes, multiple mistakes.  But $50/month is not going to send any of us to the poorhouse.  Is our way best?  Almost certainly not, but it works for us in terms of making stock investing less scary. We are mostly first-generation middle class minority people with a lot of memories of growing up working-class; in short not stereotypical investors.  BI has a lot of resources for learning their particular methodology -- there are local chapters, there is a national meet-up, and of course internet resources.

Better Investing is pretty vigilant about telling people that their method is NOT guaranteed at all, and that time and effort is needed to learn. You should do your own research about investment clubs and not rely on any of my or BI results. I am happy to talk about my club, but I'm strictly an amateur, still learning and still making mistakes.  I am not FI, and a club alone won't make anyone FI. 

HenryDavid

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2019, 03:29:09 AM »
Since the replies have focused on the "fear of investing/ also of not investing" issue, you might want to consider looking at the whole process from another angle: for me this whole frugality, conscious spending, whatever approach is more about taking charge of my own choices. The most important benefit, in my own mind, is environmental. Over consumption = needless waste of resources and pointless contribution to our climate crisis. So whatever happens to your $ investments, this "investment" is a way bigger deal, long-term. And long term means 30-100 years, here. Your kid's lives, and their kids' lives.
Next, I find jumping off the hedonic treadmill totally rewarding. Slow down, calm down, enjoy your real life. Not your consumer life.
When you do these things--limit consumption to a reasonable level of luxury, stop mindlessly consuming--you will find that, IF you are moderately well paid, the $$ just starts piling up by itself. You could keep the $$ in a savings account if you felt like it. Yes, this would delay your total FIRE date, but it would still give you massive freedom and, as they call it, FU money.  Even if you just make super -safe interest only investments, same thing. First, take control. You've done that. Then, decide what to do with the mounting surplus. No panic.
So it's all a question of degree. Make the kinds of changes in your daily habits discussed here, and you simply cannot lose, whatever comes. (After that, yes, there's demonstrated benefit to taking some risk, see the Trinity study, etc etc.--but that's another choice you get to make when you take charge of your own habits.)

Linea_Norway

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Re: Scared to start - tell me your stories!
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2019, 06:29:54 AM »
I was a little scared when I was 24 and moved to one of the most expensive countries in the world. Would we be able to afford living there? We had secured a job and could afford the rent. After some time we wanted to buy a house and started saving for our own share (20%). After buying that, I started paying off the 7,5% interest mortgage. First then, I had money left in my account that I didn't know what to do about and started to invest in the stock market.

All that time, and still now, I consider myself a person who is not very rich. Like, if I need to spend the night somewhere else (privately), I will not just book a hotel room, because I still feel like that your person who can't afford staying at a hotel. So I look for options to camp.

After enough years of having a spending pattern as if you are still young and not wealthy, you will have saved a lot.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!