Saga of a craigslist scammer

[intellectsucks]

Everything in the thread is a word for word transcription of my contact with this scammer; excluding MY contact info; though the scammers info is up for all to see.  HAVE FUN INTERNET!!!!  I will update as more communication happens:

 

A text to my cell phone in response to an ad I place offering drum lessons:

(INSTRUCTOR) I need a very good and qualified instructor for my 16yrs old daughter.  Contact me on yvonevfr@gmail.com and how many times in a week.

My e-mailed response (I wasn’t aware that scammers usually ask to change to the method of communication to e-mail right away):

Hey, Thanks for reaching out.  It’s great that you are supporting your daughters interest in music.  I am available most weekends and Mondays. I have some availability during weeknights.  Let me know when you were looking to get started or if you have any questions.

A couple of quick questions (feel free to call me at MY PHONE # if you preferred to discuss over the phone):

Do you guys have a drum set for lessons/practice?

What style of music is your daughter interested in playing? (If possible give some artists as examples)

Will we be doing the lessons at  my studio or at your location? (please provide address if so)

Has your daughter had any formal instruction yet?

Looking forward to working with you!!

Thanks

Next came their response.  I was very disappointed that I didn’t really have a lead for drum lessons.

I really appreciate your response My Name is Yvone Cook My daughter name is Crystal she’s 16 years old she is coming for an holiday in your CITY and I want her to be busy in the time of the day, because I will be in CANADA for business trip for more than a month that is why I want her to be lesson with you Oh Can you tell me a lil about what type of tutoring are you teaching as a Good teacher, I also have Someone that will always drives her down to your house or lesson center for the lesson, How much is the cost for the whole a month?

Note a few things to identify this as a scam: exceptionally poor grammar, no punctuation, no reference to the original ad or my initial response.  Offering a different price/arrangement without referencing the original offer.  Though I was 99.9% sure this was a scam, I still worried that my response might be screwing me out of some work:

I only have one program that charges monthly: Drum Boot Camp.  This is an extensive, five week curriculum.  Each week will focus on a different style of drumming.  During these five weeks, we will do daily 14 hour sessions of drum instruction, followed by 5 hours of what I call “Mindset Adjustment Training”.  Mindset adjustment training is designed to deconstruct the subjects ego, superego and id, using various techniques including but not limited to: constructive confrontation, sleep deprivation, mind altering substances and radical mantra repetition; we then use the psychological profiles of the greatest percussion artists throughout history as templates to rebuild the subjects psyche.  This program costs only $4000/mo ($5000 if room and board is included).

Looking forward to hearing from you.

That is clearly the response of a madman right?  Who in their right mind would even entertain talking to this psycho if they were looking for drum lessons for their 16 year old daughter?  Later that night, I have this e-mail waiting for me:

Hello I really appreciate your response to my email Please can you calculate the cost of one hour per day for three days in week for the whole Month?& let me know the total cost Do let me know your own convenient time and days that you want my daughter to be coming in a week and I will also like you to know that the payment will deliver to your door step before the lesson start via UPS…Kindly get back to me with your full name to be on the check

Name to be on Check:

Physical address or Office Address:

Your City:

Your State:

Your Zip code:

Phone Number(s) mobile and home :?

That you want the payment to be deliver too so that I can forward it to my Secretary to mail out the payment.Thanks

Who would be a good recipient for this payment?  Perhaps the District Attorney for Eastern Pennsylvania?

Total cost will be $4000.  Please send a check payable to:

Zane Memeger

615 chestnut st

Suite 1250

Philadelphia, PA 19106

We can start Friday of next week.

Will the DA investigate this when he receives it?  I hope so.  I plan on contacting his office to give them the heads up.  I am also secretly hoping that he will try to deposit/cash it.  THEN the scammer might get some attention. 

Thanks for the information you get back to me, I’m so glad to see a good teacher like you, also want to tell you that the Payment will to you in excess payment which will included the nanny fees on the check am sending you, Because the Nanny cannot receive a check..So once you receive the check you  are going to deduct your own money for the lesson for one Month also deduct extra $50 for your running around and you will help me send  the rest money to the nanny via Money gram money transfer cos the Nanny will be using the money to Drive and relocate with Crystal to your city so that they can pay for the house rent and some other things before the lesson start with you..Hope I can trust you with nanny fund and you will handle this for me and I will be happy if my Crystal  achieve something in future? Thanks and God Bless You and Crystal is excited to meet you.A simple response to my e-mail is greatly appreciated so that I’ll know it was received and to confirm you understand all instructions Cook Thanks,

This is the ultimate tell tale sign of a scam: IF SOMEONE SENDS YOU A PAYMENT AND INSTRUCTS YOU TO SEND MONEY TO SOMEONE ELSE IT IS A SCAM!! Also, on a more personal note, I’m fine with loving your kids no matter what, but this person really needs to set the bar a little higher.  They’ll be happy if Crystal achieves SOMETHING in the future?  Do you have so little faith in your daughter to achieve ANYTHING?  Regardless of their parenting skills, let’s see how extreme the insanity of my responses can get before they cut bait and run:

That all sounds great.  I’m really excited! Now I can tell my crack dealer I can finally pay him! Woohoo!

(Edited to make it a little easier to follow)

[Gone Fishing]

Nice.

[HipGnosis]

Where did you place the ad?

[intellectsucks]

Craigslist: musical instruments for sale and lessons sections.

What's really frustrating is that there is no centralized process of what to do when you run into these scammers. Everything says to file a police report but local police are ill equipped or unwilling to handle it. Very frustrating.

[Eric]

Drum Boot Camp seems like something right out of Whiplash.  Nice work!

[GuitarStv]

I only have one program that charges monthly: Drum Boot Camp.  This is an extensive, five week curriculum.  Each week will focus on a different style of drumming.  During these five weeks, we will do daily 14 hour sessions of drum instruction, followed by 5 hours of what I call “Mindset Adjustment Training”.  Mindset adjustment training is designed to deconstruct the subjects ego, superego and id, using various techniques including but not limited to: constructive confrontation, sleep deprivation, mind altering substances and radical mantra repetition; we then use the psychological profiles of the greatest percussion artists throughout history as templates to rebuild the subjects psyche.  This program costs only $4000/mo ($5000 if room and board is included).

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Tiger mom approved.

[sunday]

What a saga. I hope the DA decides to try and catch this scammer.

[celticmyst08]

Haha. I deal with these all the time at work (bank fraud investigator). You'd be surprised at how many people fall for these. We have thousands of clients yearly who get suckered -- and we're a small bank.

I hate to break it to you, though, the DA's office likely won't do shit. These scams are so common that there are bigger fish for law enforcement to fry. You could, however, consider reporting this to IC3.gov, so it will at least go into the FBI's database.

[sunday]

Maybe a news station will be interested in picking up the story.

[FIRE me]

Who would be a good recipient for this payment?  Perhaps the District Attorney for Eastern Pennsylvania?

Total cost will be $4000.  Please send a check payable to:

Zane Memeger
615 chestnut st
Suite 1250
Philadelphia, PA 19106

Will the DA investigate this when he receives it?  I hope so.  I plan on contacting his office to give them the heads up.  I am also secretly hoping that he will try to deposit/cash it.  THEN the scammer might get some attention. 

You are one cool and evil bastard!

[tallen]

Nice! I love your responses. Speaking of scammers my credit card fraud department called me yesterday to ask me if I just charged $6k in the past couple hours (including $4k on plane tickets). Um, NO!! Have no idea how they got my card # but I hope there's handcuffs waiting for them when they get wherever they're flying to! (but knowing how the system works I doubt it)

[badger1988]

About 6 years ago when I was in college, I had a run-in with an ebay scammer. I found a 2005 F-250 clown-truck that I was interested in buying, and contacted the seller about it, but the truck ended up going for more than I would spend. A few weeks later, the seller e-mailed me saying the deal fell through, and needed quick cash so she was re-listing it with a buy-it-now of $8870 (an incredible deal). She included some additional pictures for me.  I was all set to buy the truck... got an auto loan approved, and was looking into having a third party inspect the truck (it was in California). When I asked the seller to sign all the paperwork and send it to me, she said she was on a business trip in canada, and couldn't do that, suggesting I get a personal loan and transfer the money to her bank. She also said the truck was with the shipping company, and I couldn't have it inspected until it's arrival. This is when I started to get really suspicious, and looked into it more. It turns out that the e-mail she sent me had the pictures attached in a zip file, which also included an executable file, which allowed her to control my computer. In fact, it turned out if I logged on to ebay using any other computer, the listing didn't exist, and it didn't say I had won any items. She even made a fake carfax report for the VIN number. It was such an elaborate scheme.

Once I figured this out, I continued my conversation with the scammer. I got her down to $7500 because of the higher interest rates on personal loans. These are my e-mails:

Me:
Ok, $7500 it is. I was able to secure the funds this morning, and have wired them to the bank account provided. What do I need to do now to arrange shipping?

Scammer:
Nothing in my account right now. Give me the tracking number for the transaction and I will enquire with my bank when it will show.

Me:
The tracking number is 1FTSX21P06EA11085. Let me know when you recieve the money.

Scammer:
You feel like joking, huh ?

Me:
You feel like stealing my money, huh ?

Scammer:
What??
You don't have any money remember? You need a loan.

Me:
I'll give you credit. Your scam was VERY convincing. But do you honestly believe I would fall for that? I have believed nothing you said since you were unable to provide me the documentation for the auto loan. There is no way I would send that much money without ever seeing the truck, or having a third party first inspect it. Thanks for providing me with some entertainment the past few days.

Scammer:
Okay you're welcome.

Me:
By the way, can you tell me how to get the spyware off my computer?

Scammer:
I will try taking it off remotely. No hardfeelings, okay?

Me:
WTF?

Scammer:
Did it go away ?

Me:
Along with all my files, yes, as I'm sure you already knew. Fortunately, I have everything backed up on an external hard drive. So, whats next? Is this the part where you steal my identity?

Scammer:
No, I was only in for the money.
Sorry for the files thing, I have started the process when you gave me the VIN as wire tracking#.
Than you started talking okay and I was kinda sorry I had started the wipe process, tried to stop it but did not succeeded. Good thing that you had your files saved.
You know, you really are okay. 99% of the people than don't get burned start with silly things like threatening, swearing. I am really surpised you're not like that.
Again, hope you don't mind. It was only business.

Me:
Ok, so you were only in it for the money...so I'm assuming you have already or plan to sell my personal information to someone else?

Scammer:
No man, it's over. What personal information. You're paranoid now. What can someone do with your personal information? Are you crazy?

Me:
One can never be too careful. You tried to steal $8000 dollars from me, and ask if I'm crazy...of course I'm paranoid. I'd be crazy if I wasn't. Not only that, you infected my computer with some virus and erased my entire hard drive.
By the way, how is business? How many clients do you have? I'm just curious how many people actually fall for this.

Scammer:
Generally good. The F250 actually is not sold yet to anyone, but I had several vehicles listed.

Scammer:
Well I just sold the F-250 to the first customer. $8,870. I believe it will be the only one however.

[patrickza]

That's uite an eye opening conversation!

[zephyr911]

About 6 years ago when I was in college, I had a run-in with an ebay scammer. I found a 2005 F-250 clown-truck that I was interested in buying, and contacted the seller about it, but the truck ended up going for more than I would spend. A few weeks later, the seller e-mailed me saying the deal fell through, and needed quick cash so she was re-listing it with a buy-it-now of $8870 (an incredible deal). She included some additional pictures for me.  I was all set to buy the truck... got an auto loan approved, and was looking into having a third party inspect the truck (it was in California). When I asked the seller to sign all the paperwork and send it to me, she said she was on a business trip in canada, and couldn't do that, suggesting I get a personal loan and transfer the money to her bank.

You know, I inquired about a car once on AutoTrader, supposedly listed by a woman who had moved to Canada, and the personal loan thing came up. Now that I've read this... I bet that was a similar scam.

[Rezdent]

Yep.
We listed a pig for sale on CL once.
Someone named "Michelle" made arrangements to come see it.
Then we got an email that her father died suddenly.  But she "knew" it was an excellent pig, and didn't want to lose the opportunity, so she would send us the check, sight unseen, for this excellent quality pig.

We replied so sorry to hear of the loss, no we will not hold the pig.
She replied she already sent the money and was out of the country for her father's arrangements.
Yep, got an overnight package, which we refused.
Then the ugly emails started flying in, Michelle was very angry, her assistant had sent too much money, we were trying to steal her money, blahblah.

We emailed back that we had given the package to our local Texas Ranger, and he was looking now for her.  That shut her up.

We also reported this to CL and they banned the user.

FWIW, there are a couple of sites that keep lists of scam contacts.  Typing Michelle's email address in search scored a few hits.  Scammers have to constantly change the information to stay ahead, but I recommend searching if you are suspicious (and adding if you are scammed).

[Mr Dumpster Stache]

Wow. Getting on craigslist is sort of like going to Walmart after 10:00 PM. Tons of fun, but a little on the bat shit crazy side.

[lemanfan]

Wow. Getting on craigslist is sort of like going to Walmart after 10:00 PM. Tons of fun, but a little on the bat shit crazy side.

'

Darn.  Now I'm sure I'll visit Wallmart at 11:30 PM next time I'm in the US.

[Capt Stubble]

Wow. Getting on craigslist is sort of like going to Walmart after 10:00 PM. Tons of fun, but a little on the bat shit crazy side.

'

Darn.  Now I'm sure I'll visit Wallmart at 11:30 PM next time I'm in the US.

You're in for a treat!

[cpa cat]

Yep.
We listed a pig for sale on CL once.
Someone named "Michelle" made arrangements to come see it.
Then we got an email that her father died suddenly.  But she "knew" it was an excellent pig, and didn't want to lose the opportunity, so she would send us the check, sight unseen, for this excellent quality pig.

I had pretty much this exact encounter, except with a freezer. Mine didn't send me the money after I said no, though.

[intellectsucks]

Is it wrong that I may be more excited about screwing with this scammer than with giving drum lessons?  Just got this e-mail:

Thanks for your honest and trustworthiness may god bless you..I will keep you posted with the tracking # immediately I got it from my secretary and more details with the nanny information Thanks Have a Wonderful Day

I think I've made things too easy thus far.  As a salesman, I know how to overcome objections.  Does the scammer?
I really hope that during our communications regarding your daughter's drum instruction I will not have to deal with your insensitivity towards my religion.  NOT EVERYONE IS A MONOTHEIST YOU KNOW!!!  I was very excited but now I am having second thoughts.  I will burn an incense sacrifice to Thor and Zeus for direction on what I should do....going forward, please make sure that the only topic of our conversations is business related!!!

[AllChoptUp]

About 6 years ago when I was in college, I had a run-in with an ebay scammer. I found a 2005 F-250 clown-truck that I was interested in buying, and contacted the seller about it, but the truck ended up going for more than I would spend. A few weeks later, the seller e-mailed me saying the deal fell through, and needed quick cash so she was re-listing it with a buy-it-now of $8870 (an incredible deal). She included some additional pictures for me.  I was all set to buy the

(snip)

Thank you for this - it's truly amazing.  "No hard feelings"???  GAH!

[shelivesthedream]

Posting to follow. Fascinated to see where it goes!

[partgypsy]

Thank you for the entertainment, esp the description of your bootcamp. You know people are really into intense participatory activities now (thinking of those mud runs etc). Perhaps you can turn this idea into a moneymaking opportunity (or cult)?

[intellectsucks]

And so, it seems the saga has come to an end.....SIGH, I was having so much fun.  Multiple contacts on Tuesday:
Hello Good Morning,How are you doing,Hope it went good? I just want to keep you updated and to let you know tha the check Payment will delivered to you This  morning Here is the ups tracking # 1ZX1A5090142904779..Hope you are at home to get it? A simple reply to my mail is greatly appreciated so that I'll know it was received.
Then an e-mail showing confirmation of deliver from UPS, then this:
Oh Thank you so much for your Honest and Trustworthy ..May God Bless You and Your Family ...I will like you to go ahead to your bank  and deposited the check to your account deduct your own money for one month lesson and also deduct extra $50 for your running around then go ahead to help me send the rest money to the Nanny through Money gram money transfer cuz the rest funds is needed for the nanny to drive and relocate my daughter to your city so that they can pay for the house rent and some other things before the lesson start ..So do let me know immediately you cashed the check so that i can text you the nanny information to send the rest fund too because my Daughter is very excited to meet you
At the same time, I received some text messages:
Hello Zane Memger
I respond:
How can I help you?
More texts:
Good Morning Danielle Cox Its me Yvone Cook I got a delivery confirmation from ups that the payment had been delivered to your address this morning have you got it?
The texts were sent about ten minutes apart, but this knuckle dragger didn't even realize that they referred to me as to different names.  My reply was the same to the e-mails and texts:
Bad news. ..my house was burned down this morning. I used to be a member of a radical cult and somehow they tracked me down, they are determined to destroy me now that I have left. I will update you with the new address once I find a reliable safehouse.
Waited one day and then sent a follow up e-mail, instructing the scammer to send the check to the FBI this time:
Yvonne,
 I have finally found a safe house from my former cult and I think I'm ready to start giving lessons again. Because I have had to completely abandon my previous identity, the teaching will be my only source of income and my withdrawal pains are getting very bad.  I really need to get a fix ASAP.
 When you are ready, please send another check to:
 William F Sweeney Jr
 William J Green Building
 600 arch st 8th fl
 Philadelphia pa 19106
 Please alert me AS SOON AS YOU SEND IT.

Haven't heard anything back yet, but I still have hope!!!  I called the FBI office to let them know that they would be receiving a check that they should be investigating and they told me to report everything to ic3.gov, which I did.  I would recommend if you are contacted by a scammer, to file a complaint here.  It takes about 30 seconds to complete the form and that data will go into a centralized database that can be used to prosecute these schmucks if/when they get caught.  And so it seems, I will not be able to string this loser along any further.  Hope the journey was as fun for you as it was for me.

[kite]

We sell firewood on CL and get scammers all the time.  Just like the story above with the pig.  For a few years it was someone claiming to be serving in Afghanistan who was looking for that exact "item" for when his deployment ended. 
We thought, Firewood?  Seriously?  Well, it's a bot on the other end, not a person. 

[Gone Fishing]

So sad!  I was really looking forward to the next episode!

[partgypsy]

Yep.
We listed a pig for sale on CL once.
Someone named "Michelle" made arrangements to come see it.
Then we got an email that her father died suddenly.  But she "knew" it was an excellent pig, and didn't want to lose the opportunity, so she would send us the check, sight unseen, for this excellent quality pig.

We replied so sorry to hear of the loss, no we will not hold the pig.
She replied she already sent the money and was out of the country for her father's arrangements.
Yep, got an overnight package, which we refused.
Then the ugly emails started flying in, Michelle was very angry, her assistant had sent too much money, we were trying to steal her money, blahblah.

We emailed back that we had given the package to our local Texas Ranger, and he was looking now for her.  That shut her up.

We also reported this to CL and they banned the user.

FWIW, there are a couple of sites that keep lists of scam contacts.  Typing Michelle's email address in search scored a few hits.  Scammers have to constantly change the information to stay ahead, but I recommend searching if you are suspicious (and adding if you are scammed).

This one makes me laugh, they were discerning and knew it was an "excellent quality" pig.  Too bad they didn't describe it as "Some pig."   

[MidWestLove]

I run into something like this on Zillow - apartment or house for rent for a good price, but when contacted you start getting the whole story about doctor in England/Canada/whatever, dealing with divorce, not able to show in person, references to weird non traditional payment and collateral transfer systems (you will pick up the keys from them we promise), etc.  Did not go ahead as this smelled all kinds of wrong, contacted Zillow, they said this is also extremely common.

[Axecleaver]

Just to provide some extra insight, the way this scam works isn't with the initial cashier's check you get. That's completely fake and untraceable. If you were to deposit this, it would clear in 3-5 days, then two weeks later it comes back as a forgery and the bank would charges you for a bounced check.

Good writeup on Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/fraud/sales/cashier.asp From the article:

The scam works because the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC) requires banks to make money from cashier's, certified, or teller's checks available in one to five days. Consequently, funds from checks that might not be good are often released into payees' accounts long before the checks have been honored by their issuing banks. High quality forgeries can be bounced back and forth between banks for weeks before anyone catches on to their being worthless, by which time victims have long since wired the "overpayments" to the con artists who have just taken them for a ride.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/fraud/sales/cashier.asp#ZZm8EChMuXZM9vYV.99

I typically got 3-4 of these for every valid buyer per Craigslist item I listed. Hallmarks of the scam are:
* They'll ask you to delist the item immediately
* They'll never meet in person
* There's always an overpayment of funds in step 1.

[Cwadda]

I wouldn't worry about this crap, just ignore it. I went through 10 scammers before selling a sofa. All you have to do is deal locally and face-to-face. Problems solved.

[celticmyst08]

Just to provide some extra insight, the way this scam works isn't with the initial cashier's check you get. That's completely fake and untraceable. If you were to deposit this, it would clear in 3-5 days, then two weeks later it comes back as a forgery and the bank would charges you for a bounced check.

Good writeup on Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/fraud/sales/cashier.asp From the article:

The scam works because the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC) requires banks to make money from cashier's, certified, or teller's checks available in one to five days. Consequently, funds from checks that might not be good are often released into payees' accounts long before the checks have been honored by their issuing banks. High quality forgeries can be bounced back and forth between banks for weeks before anyone catches on to their being worthless, by which time victims have long since wired the "overpayments" to the con artists who have just taken them for a ride.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/fraud/sales/cashier.asp#ZZm8EChMuXZM9vYV.99

I think a lot of people don't realize is that they're liable for what they deposit (or allow to be deposited) into their account. Therefore if they deposit a fake check, withdraw the cash to send out via Western Union, and then the check is returned and their account gets overdrawn... they're stuck with the "hot potato" and owe the bank money to cover the overdraft.

I'm always flabbergasted at how people can fall for the fake check scams. But it happens, over and over again. I can't tell you how many times I've sat on the phone listening to someone sobbing because they're totally destitute and now they owe us $5k and they don't know what to do.

Oh, and the best (worst?) part is that once someone is victimized, they'll almost certainly fall for it again. That's what really blows my mind. "Hey, I lost 5 grand last time something like this happened... but I'm sure this time it's legit!"

[MrMoneyMaxwell]

One of my closest friends was scammed out of about $2k for a car from a Craigslist scammer. I believe he was trying to buy a car.

Clark Howard makes a suggestion that all Craigslist transactions occur near a police station or in the parking lot of a police station. Most of the time the police will be all for it if it's going to stop a crime.

[clarkfan1979]

I like to play a game with these people and waste their time. They get really angry and frustrated when they realize they are not going to get any money from me after several emails. I would like to think that they are less likely to do it in the future based on my behavior.