Rochester, NY area

[GodlessCommie]

My wife and I keep looking for a cheaper place to live, and through the lens of Zillow and Google Maps area East of Rochester checks many boxes:
- four seasons, true Northern nature
- more reasonably priced real estate
- housing stock isn't too old
- good selection of parks, lakes nearby
- the city itself is a city, and provides city-ish things to do
- Costco is not too far

The flip side is real estate taxes, closest Ikea being in Canada, and a suspicion that people who leave upstate New York seemingly in droves do it for a good reason. So I was wondering if anyone lives or lived there, and could share good, bad, and the rest.

[kenner]

Went to school there ~15 years ago so can't speak to the current state of some things, but with regards to
- four seasons, true Northern nature
Technically true, but there were times when we didn't see anything in the sky other than cloud (and I mean cloud, singular, as in one giant one) for weeks on end between October and April.  If you're fond of sun, it's a downside.

[feelingroovy]

I grew up in one of the suburbs of Rochester. Northeast corner of the county. I haven't lived there in decades but my sister is still there so I visit regularly.

I found it boring as a teenager, but in retrospect, it's a really nice place to live.

I've never lived anywhere near an Ikea, so can't comment on missing that. But it has Wegmans everywhere, which is worth a lot.

I live elsewhere in upstate NY now and property taxes really are horrible. But otherwise cost of living is very reasonable. Rochester has a lot of cultural amenities.

There is a ton of snow, though it doesn't get super cold. The cloudiness is real.

[maizefolk]

Wegmans is indeed worth a lot.

Not the bitter cold of the upper midwest but a lot of snow. Rochester doesn't get the same level of lake effect snow as Buffalo, but it's still a surprising amount.

More cultural amenities than you'd guess from the size of the city, I think it comes from the city having been around for so long.

[Gin1984]

I liked Rochester best of all of western New York.  Property taxes are high but cost of housing is decent.  We left for our careers but would not have minded staying.

[feelingroovy]

@GodlessCommie what kind of place are you looking for? And how far east are you looking?

[GodlessCommie]

Thanks for all your replies!

@feelingroovy a smaller SFH. The last couple of houses we (virtually) liked were in Penfield, some others closer to Webster.

[The 585]

I grew up in Rochester suburbs and spend a significant amount of time in NoVA. I can definitely say that cost of living in Rochester is a huge plus, and summers are beautiful. Seasonal depression is a reality though (long, dark, cold, cloudy winters).

[Reynold]

Lived in Syracuse for some time, and have visited there regularly again since, and it has a lot of similarities to Rochester (which I've visited several times as well). 

Upsides: Cost of living (other than taxes) is low, though that is partly because the economy is somewhat depressed, old manufacturing companies like Kodak, General Electric and Carrier have mostly pulled out of the region.  Enough colleges and universities in the area that there is some educated population, and things to do.  Rochester in particular has some old money from the Kodak days.  Cities are small enough to get around in easily, traffic problems are almost nonexistant, and unlikely to get worse since people are not moving there in droves.  Lots of parks in the area that tend to be well maintained, went to a state park near Syracuse and walked for 3 hours, saw maybe 2 other people.  Farmers markets, unlike anywhere else I've lived, have fresh produce that is often CHEAPER than grocery stores, because there are actually still farmers making a living in the area.  Surprisingly artsy community once you get plugged into it. 

Downsides: Climate, do be prepared for cloudy and rainy/snowy weather a lot. It doesn't get super cold very often, but Syracuse at least has something like 60 "sunny" days/year, about 1 day in 6.  It also has more hours/year of precipitation than, say, Seattle.  Yearly snow is measured in feet, not inches.  Growing up, my DW's family would have picnics in the snow.  State income tax and property taxes are also fairly high. 

It is mainly the climate and economy that causes people to leave the area, if you transplanted Syracuse or Rochester to North Carolina, they would be high demand places to live.  And twice as expensive. . .

[poniesandFIRE]

Agreed with everything @Reynold said. I live south-east of Syracuse and frequently travel to the Pittsford area.

Pros: Wegmans. If kids are in the picture, there are excellent public school systems to be found. Variety of affordable things to do. Nice houses are reasonably priced. Spring, summer and fall are awesome and if winter is your jam, we've certainly got it. Finger Lakes are nearby. Good hiking.

Cons: I am originally from Vermont, so I GET winter, but the lack of sun is brutal at times. Be on top of watching for seasonal depression issues. Property taxes and income taxes are pricey.

[mm1970]

My niece lives there?  But she's 23...

[svosavvy]

I am a lifelong resident of rural western NY just shy of an hour south of Rochester.  I am usually there once a week.  I feel like Rochester is literally the best city within the state.  Reasons:

1. Imo it is the most drivable metropolitan city of over 1 million people ever.  I've driven in a bunch of cities and they all suck big time when it comes to traffic (looking at you Toronto).  You really don't get stuck in traffic all that often.  I was stuck for a couple hours of stop and go in Cincinnati with a 5 speed Honda Fit one time.  Needless to say my clutch foot leg was throbbing afterward.

2. You nailed it.  We have everything, but, Ikea.

3. Most neighborhoods are really nice and crime is really reasonable.

4. Most people thought the city would die after Kodak went down.  I think the city is never better.  B&L is still a major player. You also have a major division of Harris communications located here.  Constellation Brands is headquartered here (major industry player).  Massive healthcare industrial complex that adds economic value to the area.

5. Unrivaled access to Healthcare.  While healthcare isn't any cheaper here. Systems through University of Rochester, Rochester Regional Health, and Unity provide world class access.  You can't swing your arm in this town and not hit healthcare infrastructure. 

6. Though property taxes are high (3.5-4% of the assessed value of your home) house prices and assessments are very reasonable.  There are many wonderful neighborhoods.  Lots of bang for the buck especially for homes in gentrified areas Brighton, Pittsford, Victor, Palmyra, Mendon.  Bushnell's basin is the darn cutest neighborhood you have ever seen.

7. Walking/biking the canal is just wonderful.  The planetarium is one of the nicest imo.  The finger lakes is a diamond in the rough.  I ski at Bristol MTN a 1200' hill and is 45 minutes south of the city and they make snow like nobody's business.  Lake Ontario is like a miniature ocean and Rochester has a really nice pleasure cruising scene if that is what you are into.  I can't not mention the Thali of India, best Punjab food ever. 

Young people do find it boring.  For middle aged/older people it might just be their speed.  Buffalo/Syracuse aren't really my favorite.  Buffalo is so spread out and inefficient infrastructurewise it looks like someone ate a big bowl of sprawl and then threw it up all over the map.

Obviously you can buy however much house you want , but, say you buy a 200k house.  Looking at 7-8k/yr property tax.  3500 school, 3500-4000 town/county tax.  Pay one first day of school in the fall.  Pay the other Jan 1st.  I will tell you right now because I have looked, A 200k house here would probably cost you 350-400k or more in western/northern VA.  10 years ago I considered moving close to Charlottesville VA for family.  To recreate my 30 acre property there it was going to be more than double what I paid here though the taxes are way lower.

Good luck out there.

[svosavvy]

For Wegmans lovers: Pittsford Wegmans is basically the promised land.

[GodlessCommie]

Thank you for the detailed response, @svosavvy!

The way I see property taxes is that under 4% rule, we'll need $85K to cover the difference with what we pay now. Bad, but the difference in purchase price should more than make up for it. State taxes matter while we still work, but the difference is under 1%, and after FIRE they become much less relevant. So the $$ side seems to work out. A gloomy winter is, obviously, a concern. Thanks to all who pointed that out! This is one aspect that did not come up in my online "research".  I don't think there's a way to decide on that until we experience a sun-less winter. We are no strangers to long cold seasons, but it was awhile ago, and we may have grown soft in the balmy Mid-Atlantic.

[frugalbob]

I lived in Ithaca NY, a couple hours southeast of Rochester, as graduate student and visited Rochester often.  Rochester is a lovely right-sized city with lots to do, an interesting mix of people, and plenty of history to explore. 

Just a +1 on the dark gloomy winters.  It's the sole reason I would never move back to otherwise-wonderful upstate NY.  In Ithaca the sun disappears behind an impenetrable layer of low grey clouds right around Halloween, and you don't much see it again until April.  Rochester is likely similar.  If you're at all sensitive to these things, it's really depressing.  I moved to Virginia and felt better immediately.

Have you looked into Cincinnati Ohio?  Maybe a little too far south for you, but it's a city with a lot of similarities to Rochester, plus somewhat sunnier winters.

[feelingroovy]

I agree with everything @svosavvy said.

BTW, you mentioned you were looking at Penfield and Webster. I grew up in Webster. It has been a while, but they're both great towns. Webster has more of a walkable downtown, and of course the lake. But both have good schools,  beautiful parks, nice neighborhoods, etc.

As for weather, a couple things to note. First, summers are glorious. A/C is optional. 70-85 degree highs.

Second, it's not like Seattle winters where there is no break to the grey. If you're sensitive to it, it might be a problem.  I personally am more sensitive to cold than the grey. If you can embrace winter activities, it makes a big difference.

Ithaca weather patterns are different than Rochester. Ithaca has no lake effect snow and the altitude is higher so it's colder. Rochester is an entire planting zone higher. I don't know about the cloudiness comparison.

[roomtempmayo]

I'll play the part of the naysayer.  I think the Lake Ontario shore and the Mohawk Valley kinda suck.  Here are a few reasons:

- Clouds.  Well covered above, but I don't think you can fully appreciate it until you've experienced it for months and months.

- Sorta winter with lots of snow, but not enough winter that there's much of an outdoor recreation winter culture.  It's like a freeze-thaw miserable winter, not a winter with a good consistent snowpack or ice.

- I can't think of a state that collects so many taxes to deliver so little.  The property taxes are high, but most of the schools underperform and the teachers are paid poorly, along with most other public employees upstate.  The gas tax is high, but somehow the roads are a mess and there are tolls.  I never understood where all the money went in NYS.

- Why do people love Wegman's?  It's like a slightly glorified Trader Joe's.  It's a fine enough grocery store, but I've never understood the love.  I'll take a Whole Foods or even Hannaford any day.

If I really wanted to live in upstate New York, I'd either go to the Catskills/Hudson Valley, or up to the east side of the Adirondacks.  Both areas have better outdoor opportunities, culture, and weather.

Further afield, I'd look at either Pittsburgh to the west if you want milder winters, or northern New England (VT, NH, ME) for more opportunity in the winter.  Either direction will have sunnier weather and a more active culture.

[teen persuasion]

We are between Rochester and Buffalo, DH grew up in Rochester.  So far, 2 of the kids went to college in Rochester (UR, RIT), one nearby (SUNY Brockport) and of those 3 two are still living in Rochester.  The third one had no choice - Navy sent her to Hawaii, oh darn!

The gray skies are real in late fall, early winter.  But once you get to the coldest part of the year you can get beautiful clear sunny days when it's cold.  The warmer days are the cloudy ones.  Lately we've been bouncing back and forth between rainy/cloudy for a spell, then temps near zero but gloriously sunny (today and yesterday).  So January and February feel much nicer, unless there's a blizzard.

Snow belts are also a thing.  Some areas consistently get more LES, and others rarely, it's just a function of location.  Rochester can get hit from either lake Erie or Ontario, depending on the direction of the storm.  I know the snow belt areas much better in the Buffalo region than Rochester, though, so can't guide you there.  But research it.

[GodlessCommie]

Again, thank you all for your replies! Please keep it coming.

[svosavvy]

Haha,

Did we mention it snows here.  From this morning.

[GodlessCommie]

This looks like a proper winter!