Recommended Finance Courses?

[aladystash]

Hi Everyone! I'm recently married and have read tons in the ERE blog world. I've been investing in index funds, made wise use of credit cards, and lived a frugal life. No debt, full faith in my skills, knowledge of where and when my money moves and why. I just got married and he wants to hire a financial advisor to manage our money. I have talked him out of it, but he won't trust my money management skills until I go to a brick and mortar school for some courses. Any recommendations on which courses would actually be useful? I live next to UCONN Stamford, which has a great business school, so I have my pick. Thank you in advance!

[katsiki]

Does it have to be school courses?

If not, there are a lot of great books if spouse is just opposed to blogs and online content.

Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins is one recommendation.  You can find many more suggestions in the forums.

[aladystash]

Books won’t do apparently. I’ve read 3 already, The Boglehead’s Guide, A Random walk down Wall Street, A History of America in 5 Crashes, just ordered The investment Answer (recommended by someone who has been managing their spouses money for decades), and the husband has that Tony Robbins book that I’ll read next. Unfortunately that doesn’t elicit enough faith. It’s gotta be a school course. He’s even uncomfortable with it being an online course, even if through an accredited university......picky picky. I am determined though.

[Sibley]

So you just got married and he won't trust you, despite the fact that you've been managing your money quite successfully? You don't need formal education, you need some couples counseling to address his lack of trust in the face of evidence.

[kpd905]

If anything, find a fee-only advisor, so you drop a few hundred dollars instead of getting sold into some high fee mutual funds for the rest of your life.

Then take the money you saved and go to marriage counseling.

[NorCal]

I have an MBA in finance, and I wouldn't recommend taking a business school course to help with personal finances.  Those courses have some great information on finance, but it's mostly theory oriented.  The little bit that touches on practice is oriented towards corporate finance.  Practical exercises include things like whether the Airbus A380 is a good investment, or how Steinway piano's should manage their brand.

First off, take a look at the Bogleheads guides towards investing and retirement planning.  Those are the best primers you can get.  I can recommend a ton more from there.

If you truly want to take a course, I would first look at the Lynda.com or Udemy classes.  I haven't done any on finance, but I've had good experience with their other courses.

If you truly want an in-person class, maybe you could try some CFP prep courses.  I have no knowledge of those courses, but I imagine their topical coverage would be spot on.

[Frankies Girl]

Um... +1million agree with Sibley.

You have a spouse problem, not a money management problem. If he doesn't trust you to do something you've been doing successfully on your own, then he is the problem there. Why are you entertaining the idea of this when you know you're fine? He should not get his way unilaterally just because he refuses to educate himself and belittles your own abilities.

And I'd also ask myself why this wasn't already a non issue before getting married and do a review of the other marriage hot button topics if you hadn't already (some of which are: kids/managing extended family commitments/traditions, religion, money).

I'd suggest that you stand firm. If he doesn't like it, maybe split up your assets and keep things separate since he doesn't trust you and let him do his own thing and you do yours. But I'd also stress that this sort of thing - lack of trust in your already-established abilities - early in a marriage isn't a good sign. And you're capitulating to him to take classes or coursework to make him feel better about your abilities seems... quite patronizing to me. So your own self-education and research isn't good enough for him, and you need an "expert" to instruct you before he'll allow you to proceed?

Yeah, no. Counseling and some deep convos on how you mean to go forward as a couple.

[Raymond Reddington]

If you truly want an in-person class, maybe you could try some CFP prep courses.  I have no knowledge of those courses, but I imagine their topical coverage would be spot on.

This. Otherwise don't bother taking an expensive class. If you're "buying" the tuition just to placate him, there's no telling what other unreasonable future demands he'll make of you, at your expense.

IMO the CFP classes will teach you much more about different asset classes, taxes, and savings vehicles than you know now...but no college level course is going to teach you to be frugal, it's all geared towards the business/analytical world primarily.

[MDM]

Any recommendations on which courses would actually be useful?

+1 to all the other comments about new hubby's likely irrationality.  And yes, it's probably not a good idea to use that word....  ;)

But just to confirm, perhaps you could post a case study here, including specific investment allocations, and perhaps at Asking Portfolio Questions - Bogleheads.org.

Consider the ratio of "attagirl" to "um, you probably should..." comments and go from there.

[Rocketman]

When I was getting my Masters in Accounting a few decades ago, the school offered a Personal Finance class ( It was geared for everyone- but I think it was required for the CPF area.). If one class will fix his concerns - look for a class at college like that.

[aladystash]

Thanks everyone. I’m going to look into the CFP courses. Thanks for the eye opening encouragement. I appreciate it. I stand taller and more assured of how to handle things. Gotta remember to put my foot down more and have faith in what I know and was doing well before. Cheers guys.

[NorthernBlitz]

So you just got married and he won't trust you, despite the fact that you've been managing your money quite successfully? You don't need formal education, you need some couples counseling to address his lack of trust in the face of evidence.

Getting on the same page re: finances is super important because it's the death of many marriages.

I don't think that counseling is the first option, but I'd personally consider it if normal discussion didn't work. I think it's also reasonable for someone to be apprehensive about turning over their financial future to someone purely based on trust (even a spouse). I also think that there are reasonable arguments for a financial adviser. I think that you're trying to do the right thing, but you're the one breaking from the societal "norm". So, it's probably on you to convince your partner.

I'd try to see what your husband's reason for wanting an adviser is. It could be reasonable: always good to have a second pair of eyes to review things or someone to council you to stay the course in a downturn (which you may or may not have faced with significant assets in the market). Or it could be unreasonable: "advisers know how to pick winning stocks or funds", or "if we have one, we can abdicate responsibility to them". If your husband's chief concern is about your lack of training in this area, you might want to point to the education that investment advisers get (I believe that it's mostly about sales techniques) and the obvious perverse incentives of the business model.

It seems like a logical place to start would be for him to read Simple Path to Wealth or any of the books you've read. Maybe that can kick start a discussion with him about it?

If he doesn't want to read the books, maybe get the audio books?

Either way, I'd also recommend that he listen to the following two episodes of Freakonomics:
The Stupidest Thing you Can do With Your Money: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/stupidest-money/
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Money But Were Afraid to Ask: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/everything-always-wanted-know-money-afraid-ask-rebroadcast/

I think that they make persuasive arguments and have good production values. It also talks more about data than face punches. I think some people prefer a more main stream voice than bloggers like MMM or JL Collins (even though I personally think both are great, someone like my Dad would be very skeptical about basing a financial plan on a blog).

That's like 2 hours of time. Even if he thinks its all BS, we should all be willing to sacrifice two hours of listening to something for our spouses.

The beauty of the argument for this type of investing is that it's (1) simple and (2) works as well or better than almost everything else.

[Mr. Paws]

I have an MBA in finance, and I wouldn't recommend taking a business school course to help with personal finances.  Those courses have some great information on finance, but it's mostly theory oriented.  The little bit that touches on practice is oriented towards corporate finance.  Practical exercises include things like whether the Airbus A380 is a good investment, or how Steinway piano's should manage their brand.

Agreed.  I also have an MBA in finance (my school also did the Steinway case) and virtually every financial class we had focused almost entirely on corporate finance or theory.  I would say if you absolutely have to take finance classes and you don't want to pursue a degree, a local community college would probably be good enough for just some basic finance. It will probably be significantly cheaper and may even go a little slower.  Also, I think there are wealth management type classes that may be better for personal finance.

[jlcnuke]

Hi Everyone! I'm recently married and have read tons in the ERE blog world. I've been investing in index funds, made wise use of credit cards, and lived a frugal life. No debt, full faith in my skills, knowledge of where and when my money moves and why. I just got married and he wants to hire a financial advisor to manage our money. I have talked him out of it, but he won't trust my money management skills until I go to a brick and mortar school for some courses. Any recommendations on which courses would actually be useful? I live next to UCONN Stamford, which has a great business school, so I have my pick. Thank you in advance!

The courses I see most likely to provide relevant education on personal investment and investment strategies are:

FNCE 3302R Investments and Security Analysis
FNCE 4302R Fixed Income Securities
FNCE 4304R Financial Derivatives & Risk Mgmt
FNCE 4301 Advanced Issues in Security Valuations
FNCE 4303 Adv. Issues in Asset Allocation & Portf. Mgmt

Though I'd wager that the additional things you'd learn would be unlikely to provide any significant change change in thinking that would cause you to alter your current portfolio.

[PDXTabs]

@aladystash,

Do you think that you could get him to read Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins?

[wbranch]

I have a CPA license, MS in accounting, BS in accounting and was only a few classes away from a BS in finance. Very little that was taught was directly relevant to personal finance. I did have an investment analysis class where the professor recommended low cost index funds for personal retirement accounts and had a few other tidbits. Some small portions of tax classes had some good info as well. Also had a good real estate finance class that had a ton of analysis examples that were relevant for real world personal real estate investing. I think some of the best info came from personal anecdotes from professors which can be real hit and miss.

So I agree with others that JL Collins and boglehead wiki are best sources of info. Waste of time to take any university level classes. Some CFP type courses might be helpful, but I wouldn't be willing to pay much for them if it is personal use.

[aladystash]

I don't think that counseling is the first option, but I'd personally consider it if normal discussion didn't work. I think it's also reasonable for someone to be apprehensive about turning over their financial future to someone purely based on trust (even a spouse). I also think that there are reasonable arguments for a financial adviser. I think that you're trying to do the right thing, but you're the one breaking from the societal "norm". So, it's probably on you to convince your partner.

I'd try to see what your husband's reason for wanting an adviser is. It could be reasonable: always good to have a second pair of eyes to review things or someone to council you to stay the course in a downturn (which you may or may not have faced with significant assets in the market). Or it could be unreasonable: "advisers know how to pick winning stocks or funds", or "if we have one, we can abdicate responsibility to them"

Thank you!! This is accurate. We had some serious conversations yesterday, and the latter is the reason. Abdicating responsibility to the financial planner for relationship security (happier marriage) and that's what all his friends and family do and recommend to him to do. My family has always been DIY and "learn everything" people. We have very wealthy friends who retired early using index funds and the spouse manages the "bread winner's" money. 1 Couple we know it's the husband and the other is the wife.

So, you are also right that I am the one breaking social norms (always have) so it will take convincing and it is my responsibility to be patient with his fears. He admitted fears of losing everything, which he has done in the past with his own resources. He makes exponentially more money than me, so splitting our finances wouldn't be a reasonable solution if we want to be married and have the same standard of living. He is also coming into a very large windfall which is, I think, causing the immediate stress about what to do.

MMM spouse wins since getting engaged have been: the addition of 2 great sign on bonus credit cards to his/our life (he had 0- fears of CC debt stories) and tracking expenses and income (he never did this in 39 years). One step at a time.

It took a lot of teeth pulling to get him to open up, but now we understand better, and hopefully we can move forward. I'm not going to do a college course, as per everyone's suggestion. I'm going to look into CFP certification. And we went to couple's counseling before the wedding
 because of the financial discussions didn't work and it did help quite a lot, so not a bad suggestion at all!

[aladystash]

Hi Everyone! I'm recently married and have read tons in the ERE blog world. I've been investing in index funds, made wise use of credit cards, and lived a frugal life. No debt, full faith in my skills, knowledge of where and when my money moves and why. I just got married and he wants to hire a financial advisor to manage our money. I have talked him out of it, but he won't trust my money management skills until I go to a brick and mortar school for some courses. Any recommendations on which courses would actually be useful? I live next to UCONN Stamford, which has a great business school, so I have my pick. Thank you in advance!

The courses I see most likely to provide relevant education on personal investment and investment strategies are:

FNCE 3302R Investments and Security Analysis
FNCE 4302R Fixed Income Securities
FNCE 4304R Financial Derivatives & Risk Mgmt
FNCE 4301 Advanced Issues in Security Valuations
FNCE 4303 Adv. Issues in Asset Allocation & Portf. Mgmt

Though I'd wager that the additional things you'd learn would be unlikely to provide any significant change change in thinking that would cause you to alter your current portfolio.

THANK YOU!!!!! I will now look into these as well! I know a big issue the university advisor told me was that I would need a bunch of prerequisites before being able to take many courses that actually jive with my goals, but let me do some digging here!

[NorthernBlitz]

I don't think that counseling is the first option, but I'd personally consider it if normal discussion didn't work. I think it's also reasonable for someone to be apprehensive about turning over their financial future to someone purely based on trust (even a spouse). I also think that there are reasonable arguments for a financial adviser. I think that you're trying to do the right thing, but you're the one breaking from the societal "norm". So, it's probably on you to convince your partner.

I'd try to see what your husband's reason for wanting an adviser is. It could be reasonable: always good to have a second pair of eyes to review things or someone to council you to stay the course in a downturn (which you may or may not have faced with significant assets in the market). Or it could be unreasonable: "advisers know how to pick winning stocks or funds", or "if we have one, we can abdicate responsibility to them"

Thank you!! This is accurate. We had some serious conversations yesterday, and the latter is the reason. Abdicating responsibility to the financial planner for relationship security (happier marriage) and that's what all his friends and family do and recommend to him to do. My family has always been DIY and "learn everything" people. We have very wealthy friends who retired early using index funds and the spouse manages the "bread winner's" money. 1 Couple we know it's the husband and the other is the wife.

So, you are also right that I am the one breaking social norms (always have) so it will take convincing and it is my responsibility to be patient with his fears. He admitted fears of losing everything, which he has done in the past with his own resources. He makes exponentially more money than me, so splitting our finances wouldn't be a reasonable solution if we want to be married and have the same standard of living. He is also coming into a very large windfall which is, I think, causing the immediate stress about what to do.

MMM spouse wins since getting engaged have been: the addition of 2 great sign on bonus credit cards to his/our life (he had 0- fears of CC debt stories) and tracking expenses and income (he never did this in 39 years). One step at a time.

It took a lot of teeth pulling to get him to open up, but now we understand better, and hopefully we can move forward. I'm not going to do a college course, as per everyone's suggestion. I'm going to look into CFP certification. And we went to couple's counseling before the wedding
 because of the financial discussions didn't work and it did help quite a lot, so not a bad suggestion at all!

That's a really awesome result!

I think that having tough conversations like this makes marriages stronger.

Happy to hear that you feel like you're moving in a positive direction together.

[NorthernBlitz]

Hi Everyone! I'm recently married and have read tons in the ERE blog world. I've been investing in index funds, made wise use of credit cards, and lived a frugal life. No debt, full faith in my skills, knowledge of where and when my money moves and why. I just got married and he wants to hire a financial advisor to manage our money. I have talked him out of it, but he won't trust my money management skills until I go to a brick and mortar school for some courses. Any recommendations on which courses would actually be useful? I live next to UCONN Stamford, which has a great business school, so I have my pick. Thank you in advance!

The courses I see most likely to provide relevant education on personal investment and investment strategies are:

FNCE 3302R Investments and Security Analysis
FNCE 4302R Fixed Income Securities
FNCE 4304R Financial Derivatives & Risk Mgmt
FNCE 4301 Advanced Issues in Security Valuations
FNCE 4303 Adv. Issues in Asset Allocation & Portf. Mgmt

Though I'd wager that the additional things you'd learn would be unlikely to provide any significant change change in thinking that would cause you to alter your current portfolio.

THANK YOU!!!!! I will now look into these as well! I know a big issue the university advisor told me was that I would need a bunch of prerequisites before being able to take many courses that actually jive with my goals, but let me do some digging here!

If you're just interested in the knowledge and not a mark on a transcript, I bet you could sit in on the course. You could also look into something like CourseEra. I think they have courses that are free if you are pursuing them for personal interest and not certification.