Author Topic: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)  (Read 11194 times)

Shane

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Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« on: December 17, 2015, 02:22:55 AM »
As my family and I are just about to begin FIRE and don't want to run afoul of the laws of the Land, I thought I'd start a thread to see if I can get some clarification on exactly what types of "work" are and are not allowed during early retirement.

Apparently, during the accumulation phase, manual labor such as changing the oil in your vehicle, mowing the lawn, cleaning the house, cooking meals from scratch, cutting your kids' hair, helping friends, relatives or neighbors to do work on their homes, vehicles, computers, websites, etc., is perfectly acceptable to most Mustachians and even seems to be admired by many, as it seems to be generally accepted that these activities teach valuable life skills, build character, as well as save money, which can be invested and thus speed up the journey to FIRE. As these types of activities are normally unpaid, most Mustachians seem to not consider them "work."

Part of my wife's and my FIRE plan is to spend the first year or so slow traveling around the world with our, now, 7 year old daughter. Daydreaming about where we'll go and what we'll do on our journey, I've been spending a lot of time poring over sites like Helpx and WWOOF where it's possible to connect with hosts from all over the world who are looking for travelers willing to exchange their labor for a free place to stay, meals, and often a chance to temporarily become part of a local person's family in another part of the country or world.

My main reason for pursuing volunteer opportunities on organic farms in Europe, vineyards in South America, with NGOs helping homeless kids in SE Asia, and helping families to build their own homes in the Appalachians, is because I think volunteering my time to help people will be fun, interesting, and it will allow me and my family to meet new people, learn new things and have experiences that most casual tourists can never even dream of. As a side benefit, volunteering my time to help people during my family's journey around the world is likely to significantly lower our travel costs.

For our family of 3, we're budgeting $40K for our first year of traveling the world, which I'm pretty sure will be plenty, so we don't have to volunteer to make ends meet. We're planning on doing it because we want to and because we believe it will make our travel experiences richer and more interesting.

Recently I've posted in some threads on the MMM forums about our plans to volunteer during our travels around the world, and inevitably one or more members has replied with something along the lines of, "Well, that sounds a lot like WORK to me. If you have to volunteer to save money on traveling, then you're not really retired."

I'm wondering why there's this seeming disconnect between what many Mustachians enjoy doing in their "real" lives at home, e.g., solving their own plumbing problems, fixing their cars, helping neighbors and friends to put new roofs on their houses, etc., and the idea that when we go traveling if we dare to lift a finger to help someone and, heaven forbid, we actually derive some small economic benefit from it as well in the form of lower travel costs, that then everyone wants to pile on and declare that our FIRE plan is a farce and we're not really retired?

This doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe some Mustachians can explain. :)


NoWorries

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 02:45:09 AM »
I think that your plan sounds fabulous! It sounds like work at all. Don't let someone else's definition bring you down. If it's not work to YOU, that's all that matters. Congrats and enjoy!

Faramir

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 02:56:02 AM »
That plan sounds great.  I don't think you have to worry about anyone's definition of anything, including mine.  If I was travelling for an extended period post-FIRE, and I intend to, I think limited work or volunteering would/will make it more fun.  My take on the goal of Mustachianism, is to do what makes you happy, and financial independence makes that much easier.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 04:13:06 AM »
If you have to volunteer to save money on traveling, then you're not really retired."

I think you highlighted the key word there. If you have to volunteer, then you're not really FI. If you do it because (as you said), it will be fun, interesting, learn new things, help people etc etc. and not just because you need to do it to get by, then you're good. (Although, why do you care what other people think...?)

My parents effectively retired in their late forties and have spent ~30-50 hours per week since then working in their garden, without ever taking a holiday. Their dream, but probably not one that most people share

clifp

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2015, 05:41:51 AM »
40K for a family of 3 while traveling is  frugal but far from austere budget, IMO.

I think your plan sounds great, and will almost certainly be a good experience for your daughter.  If you guys have fun that just as important.

I'll admit to being part of the retirement police, although for every person on the internet I've issued retirement tickets to  there is, at least, three people in real life who I've said "you have flunked retirement".

Classic example Intel colleague of mine in his early 60s from Chicago.  His net worth is least 5 and probably north of $10 million. Retired for a month before taking a "part-time" job with a startup. He met me in Honolulu on his way to Syndey, was going to be the for two days before going to Texas, Washington DC, and then Europe over the next two weeks. In his mind he was having fun so it wasn't work. In my mind, while he was clearly FI, it didn't sound like retirement at all to me, since he had a boss, and he was focused on making money.

Now I'd actually rather be jetting around the world, selling a technology product, that working on an organic farm, but that's just me.  You are independent and you aren't taking money, I see no reason that puttering around in somebody else farm is different than your grown stuff in your own garden.

Worse case you are doing 26 in a 25 MPH.


Doubleh

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2015, 06:02:15 AM »
Second vote that it's the Have To that matters. What difference is there between "I'm retired as long as I do 10 hours of work a week in exchange for food and board" and "I'm retired as long as I can find 10 hours of work at $10 an hour to cover my $100 rent." Not that I think there's anything wrong with either of those and I'm certainly not one of the police.

I think a FIRE that can only work if you are able to find appropriate volunteer opportunities is likely to be cutting things a little fine, and is exposed to pretty substantial risk if those opportunities or your ability to take them up were to change. However that's certainly not what you're suggesting as it sounds like you will have more than enough to cover your travel and the volunteering is a way of opening doors while helping to keep your costs low.

I salute you and would love to hear about your experiences as that is something I'm very keen to do also in a few years time.

limeandpepper

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2015, 06:09:11 AM »
Well, to clarify things, in the other thread, this was what you said, and this is why people were IRP-ing it. It was only later, after the criticism, that you clarified that you would actually have enough money to be retired regardless of whether you did the volunteer work or not.

Everyone is allowed to work during retirement if they want. As others have said, the "have to" matters in regards to assessing whether one is actually retired or not. If it doesn't apply to you, then you don't have to worry about it. Case closed. :)

I could retire in HCM City or anywhere else in the world I wanted to on <$250/month. Anyone who is halfway intelligent, can speak English and maybe some other languages as well, knows how to use a computer, is personable, etc., can easily find arrangements in HCM City or anywhere else in the world which would allow him to live comfortably on very little money. All it requires is a little creativity and the ability to think outside the box. Just because I'm retired, doesn't mean I can't volunteer to help people wherever I happen to be living. Wherever I go in my retirement, that's what I plan on doing - help people. I enjoy doing that. It's not a job, so I'm not working. I'm helping people to learn English or build their house, plant vegetables in their garden or take care of their livestock. If you're willing to help people out, you'll never have trouble finding a place to live and you won't have to worry about spending very much money if you don't want to.

A good website to use to find unconventional living arrangements which may allow you to live all over the world for little to no money is Helpx.net. Currently, there are 28 listings on Helpx in Vietnam. Many of the listings are in Hanoi, but there are others all over the country, including Danang, Sapa and there's one in HCM City. Normally people posting on HelpX are looking for a few hours/day of volunteering in exchange for a free place to stay including free meals. If you had free accommodations and free food, do you think you could live on $250/month in HCM City? Of course you could. Anyone could. What else would you need to spend your money on besides food and a place to stay? Entertainment? Taxis? Hookers and blow? :)

Cookie78

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2015, 09:05:16 AM »
I really love your plan Shane and I hope when you FIRE you keep a journal and let us know how it is going. It's similar to phase 2 of my plan, but with new ideas I hadn't thought of yet. :D

As for the IRP... Just as an example of what's already been explained in this thread, I plan to FIRE in 19.5 months. By then I should have enough to support myself and my dreams whether I work for income or room and board, or not (I plan to in some way, for many of the same reasons you listed). However, I COULD quit my job now and go live the same way, but I don't have enough investments and I would depend on being able to work in some capacity to support myself. If I did this, I wouldn't call myself FI or RE. This is the difference. HAVE to work, or WANT to work.

Guesl982374

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2015, 11:14:25 AM »
Dr. Doom said it best in one of his posts (and I paraphrase) "Being wealth is just another way of saying someone has options."

At some point on all of our journey's to FI (usually well before reaching "true" sit-on-your-ass-all-day-every-day-for-the-rest-of-your-life FIRE), each one of us ends up with more and more options because we can afford to take more risk. It is absolutely OK (and really the point of striving for FI) to take advantage of the options that interest you and your family the most.

Enjoy your travels!

UnleashHell

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2015, 11:29:30 AM »
anyone who is bringing the concept of IRP is a tool.


Eric

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2015, 11:37:58 AM »
Excellent post Shane.  Sounds like a great retirement to me.

GodlessCommie

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2015, 12:00:08 PM »
Also, if one is to be very strict about definitions, it can be called downshifting. Still very respectable (in a hip way) approach to life, and will not raise any alarms on an IRP radar.

Thanks for pointing to the websites, bookmarking those.

Villanelle

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2015, 12:13:22 PM »
I think most of the IRP is silly, but I also think those who get worked up about it are almost equally silly.  So what if, by someone else's definition, you aren't retired?  If you are happy with things, and happy with the labels you apply to yourself, what difference does it make if someone else disagrees with those labels.

Also, I agree that your post here gives a different impression than your other first post.  Wanting to volunteer to make travel a bit cheaper, or even to make more travel possible, is different than *needing* to pick up some side work (or volunteering that ends up benefitting you in a non-cash way) to be able to afford even a cheap daily existence in Vietnam.  I definitely would consider the former retired, and not the latter, because in the latter, there is an absolute need to work to cover necessities, and in the former, it is essentially just for cash (or equivalent) to cover some desired extras you could easily live without if it came down to that.   But it also doesn't matter that I would consider one retired and not the other.  I don't really care if you label them differently, and you shouldn't care that I do. 


RootofGood

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2015, 12:28:09 PM »
OP, I would say your plan to trot the globe on a $40k budget and not have to exchange work for room and board ISN'T "working".  You aren't doing it to survive.  You won't do it every week and possibly not much at all (depending on what's available and piques your interest I assume). 

Contrast that with someone that's squeaking by on $250/mo and absolutely has to work just to provide beer money, food money, transportation money, etc. etc.  Granted, if you can survive on $500-700/mo (which is absolutely doable in parts of the world) then the difference between $250/mo and $500-700 isn't very big if you can average $50+/hr (freelancing for example).  That's like an hour or two per week.  When exactly you qualify to receive an infraction from the IRP is a blurry line, and much like public indecency, we know it when we see it.  :)

bacchi

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2015, 01:08:38 PM »
I'm early retired except that I have to work 40 hours/week to pay my rent and buy food.


NICE!

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2015, 02:29:34 PM »
anyone who is bringing the concept of IRP is a tool.

Uhhhh...why are you doing this? Not productive.

Miss Prim

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2015, 02:32:16 PM »
When I first read your post, I thought you were trying to stir things up needlessly, but then I read the comments and realized you had been called out on a post and were rightfully mad about it.  Seriously folks, who cares what he calls it, it is retirement to him.  Why do we even have IRP here!  Save the bullshit bashing for non-mustachians that post on here. 

Can you tell I am worked up about this?  Want to bash me for retiring at the old fart age of 61 and not 30?  We are all here for various reasons, lets stick to helping each other out.  We get enough bashing from the real world for being so frugal.

                                                                               Miss Prim

Shane

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2015, 05:23:28 PM »
My post wasn't meant to be taken completely seriously. :)

I'm not upset about the IRP at all, and everyone's right there's no reason to really care what the IRP thinks. It's not going to affect how my family and I live our lives. If we cared much about what other people thought about us, I probably wouldn't be here posting on this board. I'd still be working at my job.

I went back and re-read the exchange I had in the other thread where I was called out because my plan didn't sound like a "real" retirement, and I think I was wrong. The person I was having the exchange with said something like, "NO ITS NOT POSSIBLE TO LIVE IN HCM FOR $333/MO!" I think I'm just stubburn, and when somebody tells me something is impossible, my natural urge is to say, "No it's not," and try to prove them wrong. I guess I'm just so used to normal, non-Mustachian, people telling me the things I want to do in my life are impossible and my always having to defend myself and my family's way of living to skeptical friends and relatives, that I can be overly defensive.

In this case I think I was wrong because the other people in the thread clearly specified that they weren't talking about living like a homeless person in HCM, but that they meant a more traditional retirement living like a more "normal" person. And it sounds like, based on what others who have been there more recently than I have, have posted, that living on that little money in HCM in 2015 would be problematic. It might be possible for a Vietnamese person living with extended family, but for foreigners like us, it wouldn't be sustainable for the long term. I stand corrected. :)

Jeremy E.

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MrsPete

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2015, 05:58:25 PM »
You've made your plans, and you're comfortable with them?  Why care whether other people agree?

limeandpepper

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2015, 09:50:21 PM »
When I first read your post, I thought you were trying to stir things up needlessly, but then I read the comments and realized you had been called out on a post and were rightfully mad about it.  Seriously folks, who cares what he calls it, it is retirement to him.  Why do we even have IRP here!  Save the bullshit bashing for non-mustachians that post on here.

Because he wasn't just talking about himself at the time... he was also implying that ANYONE can retire anywhere in the world as long as they find creative arrangements to reduce costs, or at least that's how it comes across. This was in a thread where people were discussing retiring in a LCOL-country after two years of working. Granted some people might be able to save an amazing amount in two years and really be comfortably retired after that, but how many people would fit that bill? So then most of them would, indeed, NEED to find those creative arrangements to live a reasonably decent life, even in a LCOL-country, and not just be doing it for the heck of it. So it's no longer just about the OP, and I think it makes sense to point that out in the context of the thread. Even he has now re-read the exchange again himself, and agreed. :)

Eric

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2015, 11:15:28 PM »
I'm early retired except that I have to work 40 hours/week to pay my rent and buy food.

Congrats!

Shane

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TomTX

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2015, 05:46:14 AM »
I started poking about these HelpX listings, mostly in Hawaii (duh!) - the offerings don't really seem all that appealing. Expectations of work 30-35hrs/wk for a room (or half a room. Or a tent) and a small contribution toward food.

thd7t

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2015, 07:02:06 AM »
If you have to volunteer to save money on traveling, then you're not really retired."

I think you highlighted the key word there. If you have to volunteer, then you're not really FI. If you do it because (as you said), it will be fun, interesting, learn new things, help people etc etc. and not just because you need to do it to get by, then you're good. (Although, why do you care what other people think...?)

My parents effectively retired in their late forties and have spent ~30-50 hours per week since then working in their garden, without ever taking a holiday. Their dream, but probably not one that most people share
I love that this post only took two replies to bring out the IRP!  I should warn you, you'd best not look for discount travel options or you're not retired.  And you have to eat out at every meal or you're not retired.  And you need to make sure to use a bedpan and a catheter or you're not retired. 

It's tough being retired.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2015, 10:29:18 AM »
If you have to volunteer to save money on traveling, then you're not really retired."

I think you highlighted the key word there. If you have to volunteer, then you're not really FI. If you do it because (as you said), it will be fun, interesting, learn new things, help people etc etc. and not just because you need to do it to get by, then you're good. (Although, why do you care what other people think...?)

My parents effectively retired in their late forties and have spent ~30-50 hours per week since then working in their garden, without ever taking a holiday. Their dream, but probably not one that most people share
I love that this post only took two replies to bring out the IRP!  I should warn you, you'd best not look for discount travel options or you're not retired.  And you have to eat out at every meal or you're not retired.  And you need to make sure to use a bedpan and a catheter or you're not retired. 

It's tough being retired.

Eh? Not sure how you get that from what I wrote?

I was agreeing with the OP, whose plans sound great - and also provided the example of my parents who have been retired for 3 decades and are still very happily putting in the equivalent of a full-time week of manual labour.

bacchi

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2015, 10:53:20 AM »
I'm early retired except that I have to work 40 hours/week to pay my rent and buy food.

Congrats!

Thanks! I'd comment more but my boss scheduled a meeting right after lunch and I can't miss it or I'll get the axe. I'd then have to go find a real job and wouldn't be ER anymore.

Shane

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2015, 10:58:37 AM »
I started poking about these HelpX listings, mostly in Hawaii (duh!) - the offerings don't really seem all that appealing. Expectations of work 30-35hrs/wk for a room (or half a room. Or a tent) and a small contribution toward food.

Since I live in Hawaii I haven't looked at any of the Helpx postings for Hawaii. :)

In the past when we've had work exchange people stay with us we've usually charged them around 1 hour/day or 1 full work day per week for accommodation, which was either a room in our house or a small cabin. If we provided meals in addition to the accommodation, we usually asked that the volunteers work 2 hours per day or two full work days per week. I'm pretty sure our requirements for volunteers were on the lower side, though. I've heard of other farms that ask volunteers to basically work full time just for room and board. If you're really interested in whatever the people are doing at the place where you're going to stay, and you think you can learn some useful skills from your volunteer experience, then working/volunteering lots of hours per week can be okay. If you're just doing the work to get free accommodation, then obviously you'll want to look for situations where they ask you to work as few hours as possible. Sometimes the better volunteer situations, where you can learn the most, are the ones where they ask you to work a lot. Sometimes not. Sometimes it ends being kind of a rip off. The nice thing is, if it turns out to be lame, all you have to do is grab your stuff and go. There's no requirement that you stay in a volunteer situation that is exploitative or you don't feel is fair.

I've only looked at the Helpx listings for other countries. I saw one in a city in China (Kunming?) where the people were just asking for native English speakers to come stay at their house so that they could practice their English. The ad read something like, "Hi my brother, mom and I all want to improve our English. We've got an extra room in our house where you can stay for free. We'll take you sightseeing, my mom will cook 3 meals a day for you, we'll introduce you to our friends, you can hang out with us. We just want you to help us get better at English." Something like that sounds pretty interesting to me. If it turns out we don't get along with the people or we don't like the place or whatever, all we have to do is move on to another place...

thd7t

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2015, 11:13:10 AM »
If you have to volunteer to save money on traveling, then you're not really retired."

I think you highlighted the key word there. If you have to volunteer, then you're not really FI. If you do it because (as you said), it will be fun, interesting, learn new things, help people etc etc. and not just because you need to do it to get by, then you're good. (Although, why do you care what other people think...?)

My parents effectively retired in their late forties and have spent ~30-50 hours per week since then working in their garden, without ever taking a holiday. Their dream, but probably not one that most people share
I love that this post only took two replies to bring out the IRP!  I should warn you, you'd best not look for discount travel options or you're not retired.  And you have to eat out at every meal or you're not retired.  And you need to make sure to use a bedpan and a catheter or you're not retired. 

It's tough being retired.

Eh? Not sure how you get that from what I wrote?

I was agreeing with the OP, whose plans sound great - and also provided the example of my parents who have been retired for 3 decades and are still very happily putting in the equivalent of a full-time week of manual labour.
I was exaggerating a little, but OP can be FI and not necessarily afford world travel.  If it were his permanent lifestyle, then it would be a different thing, but as it is, I think that saying he's "not FI" is probably an overstatement.  I only used your post as an example, because it was the first to quibble on terms.  Other posters have been more egregious (my quoting got messed up).

TomTX

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2015, 11:20:23 AM »
I started poking about these HelpX listings, mostly in Hawaii (duh!) - the offerings don't really seem all that appealing. Expectations of work 30-35hrs/wk for a room (or half a room. Or a tent) and a small contribution toward food.

Since I live in Hawaii I haven't looked at any of the Helpx postings for Hawaii. :)

In the past when we've had work exchange people stay with us we've usually charged them around 1 hour/day or 1 full work day per week for accommodation, which was either a room in our house or a small cabin. If we provided meals in addition to the accommodation, we usually asked that the volunteers work 2 hours per day or two full work days per week. I'm pretty sure our requirements for volunteers were on the lower side, though. I've heard of other farms that ask volunteers to basically work full time just for room and board. If you're really interested in whatever the people are doing at the place where you're going to stay, and you think you can learn some useful skills from your volunteer experience, then working/volunteering lots of hours per week can be okay. If you're just doing the work to get free accommodation, then obviously you'll want to look for situations where they ask you to work as few hours as possible. Sometimes the better volunteer situations, where you can learn the most, are the ones where they ask you to work a lot. Sometimes not. Sometimes it ends being kind of a rip off. The nice thing is, if it turns out to be lame, all you have to do is grab your stuff and go. There's no requirement that you stay in a volunteer situation that is exploitative or you don't feel is fair.

I've only looked at the Helpx listings for other countries. I saw one in a city in China (Kunming?) where the people were just asking for native English speakers to come stay at their house so that they could practice their English. The ad read something like, "Hi my brother, mom and I all want to improve our English. We've got an extra room in our house where you can stay for free. We'll take you sightseeing, my mom will cook 3 meals a day for you, we'll introduce you to our friends, you can hang out with us. We just want you to help us get better at English." Something like that sounds pretty interesting to me. If it turns out we don't get along with the people or we don't like the place or whatever, all we have to do is move on to another place...

That sounds really neat in China, and the offer you generally make seems more than fair - I admit I haven't dug wide or really deep since I'm 10+ years out.

Shane

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2015, 11:36:48 AM »
I started poking about these HelpX listings, mostly in Hawaii (duh!) - the offerings don't really seem all that appealing. Expectations of work 30-35hrs/wk for a room (or half a room. Or a tent) and a small contribution toward food.

Since I live in Hawaii I haven't looked at any of the Helpx postings for Hawaii. :)

In the past when we've had work exchange people stay with us we've usually charged them around 1 hour/day or 1 full work day per week for accommodation, which was either a room in our house or a small cabin. If we provided meals in addition to the accommodation, we usually asked that the volunteers work 2 hours per day or two full work days per week. I'm pretty sure our requirements for volunteers were on the lower side, though. I've heard of other farms that ask volunteers to basically work full time just for room and board. If you're really interested in whatever the people are doing at the place where you're going to stay, and you think you can learn some useful skills from your volunteer experience, then working/volunteering lots of hours per week can be okay. If you're just doing the work to get free accommodation, then obviously you'll want to look for situations where they ask you to work as few hours as possible. Sometimes the better volunteer situations, where you can learn the most, are the ones where they ask you to work a lot. Sometimes not. Sometimes it ends being kind of a rip off. The nice thing is, if it turns out to be lame, all you have to do is grab your stuff and go. There's no requirement that you stay in a volunteer situation that is exploitative or you don't feel is fair.

I've only looked at the Helpx listings for other countries. I saw one in a city in China (Kunming?) where the people were just asking for native English speakers to come stay at their house so that they could practice their English. The ad read something like, "Hi my brother, mom and I all want to improve our English. We've got an extra room in our house where you can stay for free. We'll take you sightseeing, my mom will cook 3 meals a day for you, we'll introduce you to our friends, you can hang out with us. We just want you to help us get better at English." Something like that sounds pretty interesting to me. If it turns out we don't get along with the people or we don't like the place or whatever, all we have to do is move on to another place...

That sounds really neat in China, and the offer you generally make seems more than fair - I admit I haven't dug wide or really deep since I'm 10+ years out.

We're in the process of selling our place, otherwise I'd offer you could come stay with us. :)

One summer my wife and I volunteered on a few organic farms in New England through the WWOOF program about 20 years ago. It was a good experience for us. At the time we were really interested in buying land and farming, so volunteering on other people's farms was a way for us to get ideas and learn skills we could eventually use on our own land. We thought of our volunteer work as in-kind tuition payments. One of the farms we volunteered on asked for 8-12 hours per day, 5 days per week, and a half a day on Saturday, which was a lot, but that farm was really, really good, and they also offered a small stipend of something like $100/week. The idea was you were trading labor for the chance to work with a master farmer who had 30+ years of experience. Volunteers got to learn lots over the summer, got free room and board, and they didn't have to pay any tuition fees... 

Erica

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2015, 01:00:51 PM »
Children need stability and consistent friends. You sound like you want to live like a working gypsy of sorts. Cool for single people, sounds like a great plan actually. But I'd put this fantasy on hold until she is fully raised and out of College. It is not in the child's best interests to be constantly uprooted

Erica

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2015, 01:04:30 PM »
Shane you can do alot of what you dream of very inexpensively in this off grid town.
Yes the entire town is off-grid. We attend church here. Just an idea I wanted to share.
We will be living here within 2 years, doing much of what you desire.
I wish you the best


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hill,_California

TomTX

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2015, 04:19:46 PM »
I started poking about these HelpX listings, mostly in Hawaii (duh!) - the offerings don't really seem all that appealing. Expectations of work 30-35hrs/wk for a room (or half a room. Or a tent) and a small contribution toward food.

Since I live in Hawaii I haven't looked at any of the Helpx postings for Hawaii. :)

In the past when we've had work exchange people stay with us we've usually charged them around 1 hour/day or 1 full work day per week for accommodation, which was either a room in our house or a small cabin. If we provided meals in addition to the accommodation, we usually asked that the volunteers work 2 hours per day or two full work days per week. I'm pretty sure our requirements for volunteers were on the lower side, though. I've heard of other farms that ask volunteers to basically work full time just for room and board. If you're really interested in whatever the people are doing at the place where you're going to stay, and you think you can learn some useful skills from your volunteer experience, then working/volunteering lots of hours per week can be okay. If you're just doing the work to get free accommodation, then obviously you'll want to look for situations where they ask you to work as few hours as possible. Sometimes the better volunteer situations, where you can learn the most, are the ones where they ask you to work a lot. Sometimes not. Sometimes it ends being kind of a rip off. The nice thing is, if it turns out to be lame, all you have to do is grab your stuff and go. There's no requirement that you stay in a volunteer situation that is exploitative or you don't feel is fair.

I've only looked at the Helpx listings for other countries. I saw one in a city in China (Kunming?) where the people were just asking for native English speakers to come stay at their house so that they could practice their English. The ad read something like, "Hi my brother, mom and I all want to improve our English. We've got an extra room in our house where you can stay for free. We'll take you sightseeing, my mom will cook 3 meals a day for you, we'll introduce you to our friends, you can hang out with us. We just want you to help us get better at English." Something like that sounds pretty interesting to me. If it turns out we don't get along with the people or we don't like the place or whatever, all we have to do is move on to another place...

That sounds really neat in China, and the offer you generally make seems more than fair - I admit I haven't dug wide or really deep since I'm 10+ years out.

We're in the process of selling our place, otherwise I'd offer you could come stay with us. :)

One summer my wife and I volunteered on a few organic farms in New England through the WWOOF program about 20 years ago. It was a good experience for us. At the time we were really interested in buying land and farming, so volunteering on other people's farms was a way for us to get ideas and learn skills we could eventually use on our own land. We thought of our volunteer work as in-kind tuition payments. One of the farms we volunteered on asked for 8-12 hours per day, 5 days per week, and a half a day on Saturday, which was a lot, but that farm was really, really good, and they also offered a small stipend of something like $100/week. The idea was you were trading labor for the chance to work with a master farmer who had 30+ years of experience. Volunteers got to learn lots over the summer, got free room and board, and they didn't have to pay any tuition fees...

Well, it's me, wife and toddler ;) - thanks for the pseudo-offer. We really enjoyed Hawaii when we went for my sister's wedding.

flyingaway

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2015, 10:04:23 PM »
Why do you have to claim that you are retired.

maizefolk

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2015, 10:28:57 PM »
Shane you can do alot of what you dream of very inexpensively in this off grid town.
Yes the entire town is off-grid. We attend church here. Just an idea I wanted to share.
We will be living here within 2 years, doing much of what you desire.
I wish you the best


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hill,_California

Not to thread-jack, but that's a fascinating wikipedia page, Outdoorsygal. How do you go about moving there though? With only about 200 people, I imagine houses don't come up for sale very often and it doesn't sound like a place it'd be easy to put up new construction.

Shane

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2015, 12:36:08 AM »
Shane you can do alot of what you dream of very inexpensively in this off grid town.
Yes the entire town is off-grid. We attend church here. Just an idea I wanted to share.
We will be living here within 2 years, doing much of what you desire.
I wish you the best


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hill,_California

Not to thread-jack, but that's a fascinating wikipedia page, Outdoorsygal. How do you go about moving there though? With only about 200 people, I imagine houses don't come up for sale very often and it doesn't sound like a place it'd be easy to put up new construction.

Yeah, I read the Wikipedia page on Iowa Hill, CA as well and meant to post something but forgot. It did sound interesting. After a year or so of traveling around the world, we'll probably be ready to settle down again somewhere. At least it might be nice to visit a place like Iowa Hill to see what it's like.

englyn

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2015, 12:57:40 AM »
Just wanted to say that helpx is awesome and so's Kunming. (I did not do these things at the same time).

Shane

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2015, 12:59:23 AM »
Just wanted to say that helpx is awesome and so's Kunming. (I did not do these things at the same time).

Glad you like Helpx. We haven't been to Kunming yet, but we're planning to visit there eventually. How long were in Kunming? when? what'd you do there?

JrDoctor

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2015, 01:17:50 AM »
Volunteering often enriches a life and teaches us something about society and culture, if not ourselves.  its doubtful you'll have as many or any 'super shit' work moments.  The one where you feel like throwing up as the shit hits the fan.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2015, 12:14:40 PM »
OP,

Whatever works for you, works. If someone else doesn't approve....so what?

There are many people on this board I respect, I enjoy reading their posts, some have posted things that have come up for them and I've commiserated with them....when my Dad died they commiserated with me....

But I'm going to do whatever the hell I want. Always have. Always will.

I'll ask "whatcha think?" posts and all. Or for an opinion, now and then. (thank God for all you beekeepers on here!)

But when the rubber meets the road....it's my life.

Unless one of you adopts me---I am available, by the way, depending upon terms---and starts paying my mortgage and is willing to support my chocolate habit...your opinion is just pixels on a screen.

I close the laptop and *poof* it's back to me, making the decisions that, in total, add up to my life.

At the end of the day, we all choose a path. Enjoy yours.

If at any time you DON'T enjoy it: change it.

By the way, I think traveling the world with a young child will be an AWESOME experience for her. Think of it as a free master's degree in life.

It will instill flexibility, and compassion, and the realization that at the end of the day, people ALL want the same thing.

Shane

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2015, 01:40:03 PM »
The OP was meant to be taken somewhat tongue in cheek. I agree with you that, at the end of the day, what other people think doesn't matter very much if at all. We all have to choose our own paths in life. Thanks TPLT for posting and for your words of encouragement.

sisto

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Re: Questions for the Internet Retirement Police (IRP)
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2015, 01:55:19 PM »
Shane you can do alot of what you dream of very inexpensively in this off grid town.
Yes the entire town is off-grid. We attend church here. Just an idea I wanted to share.
We will be living here within 2 years, doing much of what you desire.
I wish you the best


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hill,_California
That's really cool Outdoorsygal. I used to live in Foresthill and rode my motorcycle through Iowa Hill as a kid, I had no idea that they put in a grid there. That's amazing. I'd love to know where in NorCal you live, it must be pretty close to me. I'm in Orangevale.