Public Speaking and Careers

[goalphish2002]

This is not something I enjoy (I actually hate it but can fake it).  As I progress, I will have to do this more and more often in my career.  There is also the option of buckling down on my technical skills (finance/accounting) and just trying to make the most out of what I enjoy.  But, this will mean accepting my limitations.

Has anyone dealt with this?  I also don't really enjoy managing people.  I enjoy being a skilled sole contributor.  But, this will limit my growth eventually and monetary value at work. 

Anyone else feels this way?  FYI- I am aware of counseling, Toastmasters, management courses, etc...  I've been to some, and it hasn't changed how I feel about it.

Any advice is appreciated.  But, I guess I'm sort of wondering if other people on this forum have things like this that hold them back.

[Cwadda]

FYI- I am aware of counseling, Toastmasters, management courses, etc...  I've been to some, and it hasn't changed how I feel about it.

These things won't make you enjoy public speaking, but they will help you be competent even if you don't consider yourself a good public speaker. It's a learned skill, like many others. Practice makes perfect.

I do recommend finding a Toastmasters club. Visit several clubs, some are better than others.

[aurorarouge]

I'm in a similar situation career-wise. I have a hard time doing the hardcore networking and shameless self promotion that's needed to get to the "next level" at my corporate job. Good work isn't enough, you have to constantly be telling everyone about how great you are and it feels very uncomfortable to me. It's to the point where I either have to commit to a Disney level personal marketing campaign, or continue to specialize at my current level until I'm so niche that I'm irreplaceable.

BTW, here's something that works for me with public speaking. Try to mentally reframe "bad" nervous feelings as "good/excited" nervous feelings. Literally think about something you're stoked about and tell yourself that you'll feel that way when you're speaking. Sounds silly, but it helps!

[FIRE@50]

This is not something I enjoy (I actually hate it but can fake it).  As I progress, I will have to do this more and more often in my career.  There is also the option of buckling down on my technical skills (finance/accounting) and just trying to make the most out of what I enjoy.  But, this will mean accepting my limitations.

Has anyone dealt with this?  I also don't really enjoy managing people.  I enjoy being a skilled sole contributor.  But, this will limit my growth eventually and monetary value at work. 

Anyone else feels this way?  FYI- I am aware of counseling, Toastmasters, management courses, etc...  I've been to some, and it hasn't changed how I feel about it.

Any advice is appreciated.  But, I guess I'm sort of wondering if other people on this forum have things like this that hold them back.

We are basically the same person. Not wanting to manage people has possibly limited my career in some ways but I do make more money than some people managers. I've accepted that I will never be the highest paid person in the building, but that hasn't stopped me from making far more than average. I'm happy with my level of responsibility and my slightly lower pay won't stop me from reaching my FIRE goals.

[big_slacker]

I'm a very well adapted introvert. About public speaking, I lost all discomfort with it after taking a detour into technical training for over 3 years. The first few classes were terrifying as I expected the entire class to be smarter than me and to expose my lack of knowledge. Obviously that's an irrational fear, but it drove me to be extremely (over)prepared for the classes. Knowledge + Experience=Confidence. Now even 7 years removed from training I'm fine getting up in front of a room and presenting. I just did it for an engineering conference and dare I say it was fun? Got to educate some folks, fielded some really good questions and it's good career exposure.

About feeling like shameless marketing goon style self promotion is horrible I agree. Don't do it that way. If you truly believe that you are doing good work that is ADDING REAL VALUE then you should be proud of that work and how it helps others. There is nothing wrong with briefing management on what went right and what positive impact it had, nor should you feel bad about saying what lessons were learned and how you can do it better next time. This isn't pandering or brown nosing which I find offensive and not effective anyway. If I have a boss that type of tactic works on I'm working at the wrong place.

[SwordGuy]

I didn't enjoy being a project manager.   I much preferred someone else doing that job well.

Sadly, there are a LOT of bad project managers relatively few good ones.

So, in self defense, I preferred to be project manager if a competent one wasn't available. 

As for public speaking, I didn't enjoy it at first.   Then I just decided to talk to people as if we were sitting around, having a good time and a beer together.  I relaxed, I wasn't stilted, and after awhile, I not only got good at it but I really enjoyed it.
It was also REALLY GOOD for my career.

[Annie101]

I also HATE public speaking, and conquering this fear has definitely been my greatest challenge. I still haven't, but I'm making progress.  When I started my job 10 years ago I would never speak in staff meetings and was afraid to make a phone call for fear of sounding stupid.   I now have trouble keeping quiet in staff meeting, I manage a group of people, and I lead meetings all the time. I am still not comfortable with public speaking in front of large groups, though.

 I have made progress by pushing myself to try new challenges even when I'm not sure if I can succeed. I don't want to get bored!

[marble_faun]

Volunteer or get a side-job as a tour guide!  Ideally at a place that offers training in how to engage in audience. It will be like boot camp for public speaking, because you'll have no choice but to get out there and talk.

[goalphish2002]

Thanks, everyone.  There seems to be a mix of those who have accepted their natural skills and buckled down on them.  Others have gone out of their way to try to overcome obstacles.  I am sort of on the fence on this.  I don't know if certain work will ever be tolerable to me.  I suppose I can put more effort into it, but I admit I sort of want to just use my free time and mental focus on other things. 

 

[Wintergreen78]

I found that the topic matters to me. If I am speaking to a group about something that interests me and I feel knowledgeable about, I really enjoy it. If I feel underprepared or uninterested, then it is much more difficult.

So, in addition to practice, I think preparation and rehearsal is important.

[2Birds1Stone]

I chartered a Toastmasters club at my last employer, it was a HUGE help in getting comfortable delivering speeches/presentations to large groups.

[RyanAtTanagra]

Has anyone dealt with this?  I also don't really enjoy managing people.  I enjoy being a skilled sole contributor.  But, this will limit my growth eventually and monetary value at work. 

I feel like this is the real issue, not the public speaking specifically.  You can do lots of things to become comfortable speaking in front of people, but the main crux is that you're looking at a career track you don't like, because it pays more.  I'm the same way.  I just don't like managing.  I can do it if I have to, but every aspect of management to me are the worst parts of any job, so to aim for doing more of it doesn't make any sense for me.

So yes, I have made the conscious decision to limit my upwards mobility by not going into management.  It's ok to do this if it means you'll enjoy your career more.  Don't feel like you have to constantly be moving up (which isn't to say you shouldn't be constantly trying to be BETTER).  I have family members that look at me like I'm the family idiot for working hard at NOT moving up (because if you're good at what you do, you do have to fight to not be pulled into management).  But I'm ok with how much I make, so I'm ok with hitting a ceiling.  Nothing wrong with that.

But having said that, the ceiling probably isn't where you think it is, or as firm as you think it is.  The last couple years I thought I was at it, then this year I'm making 25% more than I did last year.  If I switched companies, I could probably make even more.  I've been at my current company for almost 6 years, which in IT usually means I'm getting way underpaid compared to if I job hopped.  But I like where I'm at, so I'm ok with that too (for now anyway).

Bottom line, don't feel like you're making the wrong choice by not climbing the ladder if you don't want to.

[goalphish2002]

Has anyone dealt with this?  I also don't really enjoy managing people.  I enjoy being a skilled sole contributor.  But, this will limit my growth eventually and monetary value at work. 

I feel like this is the real issue, not the public speaking specifically.  You can do lots of things to become comfortable speaking in front of people, but the main crux is that you're looking at a career track you don't like, because it pays more.  I'm the same way.  I just don't like managing.  I can do it if I have to, but every aspect of management to me are the worst parts of any job, so to aim for doing more of it doesn't make any sense for me.

So yes, I have made the conscious decision to limit my upwards mobility by not going into management.  It's ok to do this if it means you'll enjoy your career more.  Don't feel like you have to constantly be moving up (which isn't to say you shouldn't be constantly trying to be BETTER).  I have family members that look at me like I'm the family idiot for working hard at NOT moving up (because if you're good at what you do, you do have to fight to not be pulled into management).  But I'm ok with how much I make, so I'm ok with hitting a ceiling.  Nothing wrong with that.

But having said that, the ceiling probably isn't where you think it is, or as firm as you think it is.  The last couple years I thought I was at it, then this year I'm making 25% more than I did last year.  If I switched companies, I could probably make even more.  I've been at my current company for almost 6 years, which in IT usually means I'm getting way underpaid compared to if I job hopped.  But I like where I'm at, so I'm ok with that too (for now anyway).

Bottom line, don't feel like you're making the wrong choice by not climbing the ladder if you don't want to.

Thanks for this; you are correct.  I truly think this is my battle.  I need to work out how I want to progress and grow.   

[mak1277]

I also don't really enjoy managing people.

What is it about managing people that you don't enjoy?  I'm a fairly strident introvert/misanthrope but I have always been able to manage people without much issue.

[big_slacker]

Has anyone dealt with this?  I also don't really enjoy managing people.  I enjoy being a skilled sole contributor.  But, this will limit my growth eventually and monetary value at work. 

I feel like this is the real issue, not the public speaking specifically.  You can do lots of things to become comfortable speaking in front of people, but the main crux is that you're looking at a career track you don't like, because it pays more.  I'm the same way.  I just don't like managing.  I can do it if I have to, but every aspect of management to me are the worst parts of any job, so to aim for doing more of it doesn't make any sense for me.

So yes, I have made the conscious decision to limit my upwards mobility by not going into management.  It's ok to do this if it means you'll enjoy your career more.  Don't feel like you have to constantly be moving up (which isn't to say you shouldn't be constantly trying to be BETTER).  I have family members that look at me like I'm the family idiot for working hard at NOT moving up (because if you're good at what you do, you do have to fight to not be pulled into management).  But I'm ok with how much I make, so I'm ok with hitting a ceiling.  Nothing wrong with that.

But having said that, the ceiling probably isn't where you think it is, or as firm as you think it is.  The last couple years I thought I was at it, then this year I'm making 25% more than I did last year.  If I switched companies, I could probably make even more.  I've been at my current company for almost 6 years, which in IT usually means I'm getting way underpaid compared to if I job hopped.  But I like where I'm at, so I'm ok with that too (for now anyway).

Bottom line, don't feel like you're making the wrong choice by not climbing the ladder if you don't want to.

Thanks for this; you are correct.  I truly think this is my battle.  I need to work out how I want to progress and grow.   

I just want to pile on here and say that the individual contributor 'class' might not be as limited as you think. It really depends on the industry and employer. In times gone by the only way to get past a certain level was to go into management. Now in many companies the ICs continue to level up right alongside the management tracks. As an example the company I work for uses numerical levels for seniority and pay bands. I'm the same number as my manager. There are folks in the office who are 1 are 2 levels higher which is director level, and within the company there are ICs at VP level/pay, meaning 7 figure comp packages.

It's worth noting though that even at my level I need to foster relationships with other teams and organizations, make presentations, participate in budget stuff, convince people my work is aligned with strategic goals and all sorts of things non-engineering. At some point whether you're a manager or not if you want to be at a certain level you'll have to be comfortable with doing this stuff. Although at least where I work now the company is TOTALLY COOL with you riding out your career at a certain level.

[Gone_Hiking]

All I can say is that joining Toastmasters is one of the best things I have ever done.  Ability to speak clearly and confidently is not only for those aspiring to be project or people managers. How about doing better in job interviews and increasing your chance of landing that job?  Ability to negotiate compensation?  Managing YOUR boss?  Being a better parent?  I would recommend trying out a few clubs and join one that fits.  Good communication skills, in my opinion, will help you take your career where you want to take it and not the other way around.

[market timer]

My formula for public speaking success:
1. Start with something funny that makes people laugh
2. Have a message that you believe in
3. Take beta blockers and benzos before big talks

[goalphish2002]

My formula for public speaking success:
1. Start with something funny that makes people laugh
2. Have a message that you believe in
3. Take beta blockers and benzos before big talks

This does work for me.  This issue is I dread it up until I have to do it...  I do suppose if I have to do it more often I will get used to it.

[goalphish2002]

I also don't really enjoy managing people.

What is it about managing people that you don't enjoy?  I'm a fairly strident introvert/misanthrope but I have always been able to manage people without much issue.

I generally don't like confrontation.  I am also a perfectionist that takes a lot of pride in my work.  I have coworkers that I will delegate to in a heartbeat.  Others, I know will not produce and have found it hard to motivate them.  I feel like an adult getting paid shouldn't have to be motivated by another employee.  We also tend to hold onto bad employees at my company.  Our management seems to wish for the best, as they fear change.  I know it is our culture, and it would be hard for me to swallow.

[goalphish2002]

All I can say is that joining Toastmasters is one of the best things I have ever done.  Ability to speak clearly and confidently is not only for those aspiring to be project or people managers. How about doing better in job interviews and increasing your chance of landing that job?  Ability to negotiate compensation?  Managing YOUR boss?  Being a better parent?  I would recommend trying out a few clubs and join one that fits.  Good communication skills, in my opinion, will help you take your career where you want to take it and not the other way around.

This is well said.  I agree with you.  Thanks for sharing.