Author Topic: Procrastination and FIRE  (Read 5097 times)

Wertigo

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Procrastination and FIRE
« on: May 25, 2016, 06:45:19 AM »
I'm a 30+ male living in Scandinavia and have been a serious procrastinator my whole life. This post perfectly sums up my experience:
http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/03/procrastination-matrix.html
(it makes for a hilarious read if you're in the habit of doing all important work just before a deadline)

Since I'm quite smart and sociable and have a very vocal panic monster (=highly neurotic) I've been able to be quite successful and now have a low-demand and okay paying job in a very high-stakes career (law).

I got my wife on board the FIRE-train and I think we'll easily do it by 45 while raising a couple of kids even in this high-tax environment.

What I'm wondering is how does FIRE work for a person without any ambition and in a habit of never doing any of the not-urgent but important work? Anyone with first or second hand experiences of what happens when all external control is taken away? :) I'm so not Pete, although he is an inspiration.

mak1277

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2016, 07:17:48 AM »
I'm a 30+ male living in Scandinavia and have been a serious procrastinator my whole life. This post perfectly sums up my experience:
http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/03/procrastination-matrix.html
(it makes for a hilarious read if you're in the habit of doing all important work just before a deadline)

Since I'm quite smart and sociable and have a very vocal panic monster (=highly neurotic) I've been able to be quite successful and now have a low-demand and okay paying job in a very high-stakes career (law).

I got my wife on board the FIRE-train and I think we'll easily do it by 45 while raising a couple of kids even in this high-tax environment.

What I'm wondering is how does FIRE work for a person without any ambition and in a habit of never doing any of the not-urgent but important work? Anyone with first or second hand experiences of what happens when all external control is taken away? :) I'm so not Pete, although he is an inspiration.

That was a great link, thanks.  I am clearly in the same boat as you are.

In retirement, I think one of two things will happen:

1) My monkey will realize all of his dreams of eternal time in Box 4 and the panic monster will be forever slayed...nirvana will be achieved
2) My monkey will realize that without a "purpose" then spending time in Box 4 isn't that fun and he will die, leaving me bored and directionless.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 09:01:56 AM »
I'm not sure you can rightly say you have no ambition; FIRE is a pretty ambitious goal imo.

You'll likely fall prey to one more year syndrome as it takes some amount of effort to stop the momentum of working full time.  FIRE "works" the same as for anyone else, really.  You have to find meaningful ways to occupy your time without a job. If your panic monster doesn't take over to do the not-urgent but important work that occasionally comes up when you retire (just like you do now), then it's probably not-urgent and not-important.

Brokenreign

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2016, 09:44:05 AM »
Neat article! I liked the monkey. I don't think that procrastinating would have a material impact on FIRE. I suppose it sometimes costs a little more for plane tickets and such if you wait. That being said, many expenditures become unnecessary or just disappear altogether when you wait.

In Antifragile, Taleb speculates that procrastination is a natural defense mechanism against pointless tasks, complications and make-work. I practice conscious procrastination, in that I assess the value of any task or expenditure that arises. If I deem it to have no or unknowable value, I procrastinate in the hope that it will become unnecessary and disappear altogether. Seems to be working pretty well to date!

BFGirl

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2016, 10:01:45 AM »
I think I have twin monkeys...

If I could just quit giving a shit, the panic monster would go away...

geekinprogress

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2016, 10:50:24 AM »
Oh crap, that's me.  Posting to congratulate you for finding a good balance for your monkey situation, and to see what suggestions other have, since I think I'll need the help.... :) 

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2016, 11:03:02 AM »
That article is amazing. Wait but why is great. I am a world-class procrastinator who managed to procrastinate my way into good jobs. At least I'm not procrastinating where it counts. Other people can keep their "getting work assignments done calmly and ahead of schedule," and I'll be happy with my "FIRE in my 30's."

One nice thing is that I usually procrastinate on buying things until I no longer need or want them.

kendallf

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 11:26:30 AM »
I'm also a chronic procrastinator who's in a relatively high paying field, engineering in my case.  Loved the Nassim Taleb quote above, I'm printing it now for my wall.

I think that is absolutely true, BTW.. at least if I identify something as a waste of time, I have an extremely hard time making myself do it, even if I know it's crucial to others' perception of my job "performance". 

Fortunately I have a drive to build and make things, and I plan to let that become more consuming in retirement.  I hope that my procrastination monkey does not figure out how to classify those things as "work" and render me completely useless!

BFGirl

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 11:52:13 AM »
I'm also a chronic procrastinator who's in a relatively high paying field, engineering in my case.  Loved the Nassim Taleb quote above, I'm printing it now for my wall.

I think that is absolutely true, BTW.. at least if I identify something as a waste of time, I have an extremely hard time making myself do it, even if I know it's crucial to others' perception of my job "performance". 

Fortunately I have a drive to build and make things, and I plan to let that become more consuming in retirement.  I hope that my procrastination monkey does not figure out how to classify those things as "work" and render me completely useless!

Yeah my monkeys (I know I have 2!)  have taken my passion to the point of a side job and are now less than interested a lot of days...

sam

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2016, 12:06:54 PM »
The link reminded me of the book '7 Habits of Highly Effective People' in the book, the author talks about 'Non urgent, Important work' this is basically where you want to get to.

I since read an excellent blog post on goal setting (http://foreverjobless.com/the-definitive-guide-to-accomplishing-your-goals/), now every Monday lunch-time I review my goals (daily, yearly, total) .

I also automate a text which I receive every day at 7am (week day's only!!) with a reminder of my goal (using 'If this then that' - It's free).

What's more I've broken my goals down into chunks, written them up on a whiteboard (right behind the laptop I'm typing this on) and tick them as I pass them.

Finally, I've created the habit (read the book 'The Power of Habit') to journal every morning and night, part of this journalling process is citing what would make the day great and finally in the evening how I could have made the day better.

By reminding myself constantly it gives me quite the nudge.

Come to think of it I actually have quite a lot of automated reminders/habits helping me achieve my goals, but it wasn't alway's this way.

Build them one habit at a time and if you can get an 'accountability partner'.

Now, go get stuff done!

Sam

mak1277

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2016, 12:13:02 PM »
The link reminded me of the book '7 Habits of Highly Effective People' in the book, the author talks about 'Non urgent, Important work' this is basically where you want to get to.

I since read an excellent blog post on goal setting (http://foreverjobless.com/the-definitive-guide-to-accomplishing-your-goals/), now every Monday lunch-time I review my goals (daily, yearly, total) .

I also automate a text which I receive every day at 7am (week day's only!!) with a reminder of my goal (using 'If this then that' - It's free).

What's more I've broken my goals down into chunks, written them up on a whiteboard (right behind the laptop I'm typing this on) and tick them as I pass them.

Finally, I've created the habit (read the book 'The Power of Habit') to journal every morning and night, part of this journalling process is citing what would make the day great and finally in the evening how I could have made the day better.

By reminding myself constantly it gives me quite the nudge.

Come to think of it I actually have quite a lot of automated reminders/habits helping me achieve my goals, but it wasn't alway's this way.

Build them one habit at a time and if you can get an 'accountability partner'.

Now, go get stuff done!

Sam

Here's my issue...I rarely feel bad that I procrastinate.  I didn't read that article and think, "hmmm, how can I change?".  I read it and thought, "I can't wait to eliminate Boxes 1 - 3 forever". 


BFGirl

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2016, 12:35:52 PM »
The link reminded me of the book '7 Habits of Highly Effective People' in the book, the author talks about 'Non urgent, Important work' this is basically where you want to get to.

I since read an excellent blog post on goal setting (http://foreverjobless.com/the-definitive-guide-to-accomplishing-your-goals/), now every Monday lunch-time I review my goals (daily, yearly, total) .

I also automate a text which I receive every day at 7am (week day's only!!) with a reminder of my goal (using 'If this then that' - It's free).

What's more I've broken my goals down into chunks, written them up on a whiteboard (right behind the laptop I'm typing this on) and tick them as I pass them.

Finally, I've created the habit (read the book 'The Power of Habit') to journal every morning and night, part of this journalling process is citing what would make the day great and finally in the evening how I could have made the day better.

By reminding myself constantly it gives me quite the nudge.

Come to think of it I actually have quite a lot of automated reminders/habits helping me achieve my goals, but it wasn't alway's this way.

Build them one habit at a time and if you can get an 'accountability partner'.

Now, go get stuff done!

Sam

Here's my issue...I rarely feel bad that I procrastinate.  I didn't read that article and think, "hmmm, how can I change?".  I read it and thought, "I can't wait to eliminate Boxes 1 - 3 forever".

Hence the desire to FIRE!!

steveo

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2016, 04:13:34 PM »
I started to read that goal link and stopped. That is exactly what I don't want to do with my life.

palebluedot

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2016, 08:52:27 PM »
I like the approach of having a "direction" instead of goals. The Minimalists have two essays on this topic matter.

http://www.theminimalists.com/accomplishments/
http://www.theminimalists.com/direction/

Sjalabais

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2016, 12:19:20 AM »
Interesting article. I'm an Impostinator according to the matrix - and all my friends know it. But that's not an issue when it comes to time spend or happiness experienced, most of the time. I can use a lot of free time to keep the house in order, the garden in shape, the cars clean and emails answered.

You're a Scandinavian and the Peer Gynt-ish "Å være seg selv nok", to be busy and filled with yourself, is imprinted as a guilty pleasure. But it's still a pleasure. I've figured out an acceptance for being a procrastinator troll most of my life, because that's who I am.

The ambition to spend most minutes of the day in productive glory and pleasing everyone - including yourself - with the most splendid priorities is just...futile.

Wertigo

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2016, 05:21:29 AM »
Thanks for the comments. I poked around a bit on the post-FIRE subforum and there seems to be roughly two types of people. Those who have a need and a natural knack for being 'productive' and those that would just dally around and be perfectly happy.

The thing is, my panic monster has in the past made me think that if I don't do certain things i will miss out on life (existential FOMO) and/or suffer really bad consequences (no education -> eternal poverty).

In FIRE I will have worked a number of years (paid back my dues), raised a few children (at least I know what that is about and they will give me social interaction later on) and know for certain that I care dip shit about achieving any of the external markers of success in this society. I'm also growing more averse to any kind of authority the older I get...

I just started wondering if that will leave me unhappy, but since a lot of people are the same as I am, I'm certain I'll find my life really enjoyable just watching the clouds fly by as it were. Yeah, this will work out fine. :)

2lazy2retire

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2016, 07:33:36 AM »
The link reminded me of the book '7 Habits of Highly Effective People' in the book, the author talks about 'Non urgent, Important work' this is basically where you want to get to.

I since read an excellent blog post on goal setting (http://foreverjobless.com/the-definitive-guide-to-accomplishing-your-goals/), now every Monday lunch-time I review my goals (daily, yearly, total) .

I also automate a text which I receive every day at 7am (week day's only!!) with a reminder of my goal (using 'If this then that' - It's free).

What's more I've broken my goals down into chunks, written them up on a whiteboard (right behind the laptop I'm typing this on) and tick them as I pass them.

Finally, I've created the habit (read the book 'The Power of Habit') to journal every morning and night, part of this journalling process is citing what would make the day great and finally in the evening how I could have made the day better.

By reminding myself constantly it gives me quite the nudge.

Come to think of it I actually have quite a lot of automated reminders/habits helping me achieve my goals, but it wasn't alway's this way.

Build them one habit at a time and if you can get an 'accountability partner'.

Now, go get stuff done!

Sam

Here's my issue...I rarely feel bad that I procrastinate.  I didn't read that article and think, "hmmm, how can I change?".  I read it and thought, "I can't wait to eliminate Boxes 1 - 3 forever".

That's me - I can't wait to give the monkey full control and tell the panic monster where to go for good. I'm so done with cute to do lists and whats urgent and whats not, roll on the day when nothing is urgent and if I don't want to do something then it ain't getting done., fed up beating myself up over this shit.

arebelspy

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Re: Procrastination and FIRE
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2016, 07:13:37 AM »
I'm a huge procrastinator and the laziest person you'll ever meet.

One of my main motivations for FIRE was so I didn't have to do anything, and could procrastinate and be lazy all the time.

It's working out great, so far!  :D
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