Private vs Public schools - Financial perspective only

[tampaite]

delete

[Khaetra]

Is there anything truly special that the kid is learning in one year of private vs. public?  If not, then save the money.

[Sibley]

You have the money, it's not a money decision. It's a what's best for the kid decision. So, what's best for the kid? (and that may be different for kid #2)

[nereo]

I'm not understanding here... given that your public school gets high marks, and you want intend to put your kids in public school "eventually" - what is it about the private school that appeals to you and your spouse?

[wageslave23]

If you invest $12,000/yr for your child for the next 12 years instead of paying for private school.  It would be worth $200k when they graduate high school.  If you keep that money invested and give it to them at age 30, it would be worth $400k at 6% interest.  If my parents gave me the choice to go back in time and pay for me to go to private school or give me a lump sum of $400k at age 30, I'm taking the $400k every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

ETA:  I didn't read your original post carefully and assumed you were putting your child in private school for all twelve years.  Either way, the cost/benefit is proportional and imo not worth it.

[charis]

Yeah, this obviously isn't a financial question or you wouldn't be asking whether it's a good idea to spend 11k for no apparent reason.  Do you think it's better to spend 11k, or not spend it?

[Proud Foot]

How do the schools compare for kindergarten class size and student/teacher ratio? Also what size of a preschool/daycare has your child attended? I would consider these along with the personality of your child to find which would be a better fit for them developmentally for a year rather than the cost.

[AlotToLearn]

A rated public school seems to be a no brainer unless the private school is aligned with your religious beliefs.

[Tuskalusa]

I’ve heard from my friends with kids in private school that tuition is just one part of the overall cost. There is usually a significant donation expectation. So that $11k is really just the start. We’re in a HCOL area, so I’d expect that $11k to be more like $15k around here.

Also, kindergarten is an opportunity for kids to get used to their school and routines. When they get to first grade, they’re ready to transition from less playing to more learning. Having the kids in the same school from kinder to first, if possible, can help that transition.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

I'm not understanding here... given that your public school gets high marks, and you want intend to put your kids in public school "eventually" - what is it about the private school that appeals to you and your spouse?

This. What are you trying to solve for in the short term? If you can give more context on that, perhaps you'll get more useful replies

[Psychstache]

ok. not getting into debate which one is better or not, just purely financial perspective.

As others have said, this is not a question. It is better to spend $0 than it is to spend $11k, so for a "just purely financial perspective", there is no decision to be made.

If you have other nonfinancial considerations that you want to dialogue with others here about, we will need more information.

[ericrugiero]

It almost sounds like you are just wanting some ammunition to "win" the debate with your wife. 

Obviously from a pure financial perspective you are better off to go with public school.  Also, I think if your goal is to get them into public school at some point you might as well start them there.  That way they don't have to go through a transition leaving all their friends and be the "new kid".

You say you don't want to get into which is better but that is clearly part of the decision for most people who choose private school.  I can think of 3 reasons why parents would choose private school. 
- It's better academically
- They want the religious teaching at that school for their kids
- They want to avoid some of the bad influences (drugs, fighting, bullying, etc) at the local public school.  (Yes, those usually exist at private school as well but they may be less prevalent)

If you don't have a reason like those to choose the private school then clearly the public school is better from a financial perspective.  If you do have a reason, you have to decide which is the top priority. 
 

[Chrissy]

Definitely worth it to start them sooner.  If I saw $11k lying on the ground, I'd stop to pick it up, you know?

[wageslave23]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

it's a debate that I cannot win with my spouse. I still can't justify paying $11K this year for private school.

I'd get a divorce ;)

[cloudsail]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

it's a debate that I cannot win with my spouse. I still can't justify paying $11K this year for private school.

The biggest argument I see against doing this is the switching schools after one year part. If you're going to go private, do it for all years of elementary school. Find something and stick with it.

What specifically are your spouse's reasons for wanting one year of private school? Is it the academics? Good habits?

[Parizade]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

it's a debate that I cannot win with my spouse. I still can't justify paying $11K this year for private school.

I'd get a divorce ;)

I'd need to see a cba on that, 11k private school might be cheaper than a divorce.

[kimmarg]

If you invest $12,000/yr for your child for the next 12 years instead of paying for private school.  It would be worth $200k when they graduate high school.  If you keep that money invested and give it to them at age 30, it would be worth $400k at 6% interest.  If my parents gave me the choice to go back in time and pay for me to go to private school or give me a lump sum of $400k at age 30, I'm taking the $400k every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

ETA:  I didn't read your original post carefully and assumed you were putting your child in private school for all twelve years.  Either way, the cost/benefit is proportional and imo not worth it.

Chiming in from the perspective of someone who did grades 10-11-12 in private after K-9 public. I'm SO GLAD my parents spent the money. It really helped me out a lot in that period of my life and now as a 30 something I'm in a position to earn my own $$ and don't regret not having it saved.  But again depends on the kid and the time in the kids life. I was totally happy in public school in earlier grades.

[Psychstache]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

it's a debate that I cannot win with my spouse. I still can't justify paying $11K this year for private school.

Maybe try and have a discussion with your wife about what she sees as the value of the private school and listen. It might go better than trying to gather evidence about why she is wrong.

[AMandM]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

it's a debate that I cannot win with my spouse. I still can't justify paying $11K this year for private school.

Maybe try and have a discussion with your wife about what she sees as the value of the private school and listen. It might go better than trying to gather evidence about why she is wrong.

+1000
It's not a debate that one of you wins, it's a joint decision that the two of you are making for the benefit of your child.

[Rosy]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

it's a debate that I cannot win with my spouse. I still can't justify paying $11K this year for private school.

Maybe try and have a discussion with your wife about what she sees as the value of the private school and listen. It might go better than trying to gather evidence about why she is wrong.

+1000
It's not a debate that one of you wins, it's a joint decision that the two of you are making for the benefit of your child.

^^^THIS^^^

Purely from a financial perspective - you save money by sending your kids to a public school. So your question is redundant.
People send their kids to private school for other reasons, just like some decide to homeschool instead.
It is not a money question for you personally since obviously, you could afford to send your child to a private school.

Hash it out with your wife and try to do your best for your child.

[charis]

Look, it doesn't make sense to start a kid at a different school than he/she is planned to attend and pull them out after one year. Most of the other kids will have already been together in kindergarten. Money aside, why put your kid through two school transitions unnecessarily?

I have a friend who wanted her kids to go the private school but her spouse wanted public. They "compromised" by trying the private school for a year. Guess what she said after the year? Junior is doing so well and has already made friends at private school, we can't transfer him now...

Is that what's maybe happening here?

[mm1970]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

it's a debate that I cannot win with my spouse. I still can't justify paying $11K this year for private school.

Maybe try and have a discussion with your wife about what she sees as the value of the private school and listen. It might go better than trying to gather evidence about why she is wrong.

This is a good point

Also: I'd be wary of a year of private school, then your kid would be the "new kid" in 1st grade with a bunch of kids who already know each other.  Totally depends on the school and the district (ours gets enough new kids that it's not an issue).

[Villanelle]

I guess I'm not understanding.  You said "financial perspective only".  So you are asking if financially it makes more sense to spend a lot of money, or not spend a lot of money?

Your kids will be fine in good public schools.  And the point about transferring is a good one.  Kids at that age are pretty adaptable, but why force them to sort out a school change when you don't have to?  And when not doing so saves you $11k?  You might gently bring up this aspect with your wife as perhaps she hasn't considered that the change of schools (and peers) will have an affect on junior.  Also, perhaps you can set aside some of that $11k for enrichment activities for the kiddo.  Even if you spend a few thousand $ on museums and trips and classes, you still come out way ahead and in in the end, Junior has probably gotten more with that and public school than he would with private school. This also might give your wife a way to feel like she's doing the most for Junior, which is probably what is motivating her.  It is probably still unnecessary spending, but might be a compromise if she gets to go send Junior to fancy music classes and small group activities at the zoo and STEAM daycamp for kinder, and whatever else.

[SwordGuy]

I would suggest listening to your spouse -- regardless of the decision you both end up making afterwards.

Ask for advantages.  Ask for disadvantages.  Ask why one is better.  You want specifics, not vague, unsubstantiated feelings.

[I'm a red panda]

Asking for this comparison from a financial perspective only makes no sense. Financially, obviously public school is better, you're already paying for it with your taxes.

But financial reasons aren't why people choose private school. It's all the other things that you need to consider. Then the question of whether those things are worth the price.

[tomorrowsomewherenew]

I don't know what kind of a private school this is, but there are other factors to consider. What kind of attitudes regarding gender roles might be taught at the private school?

I went to a private school. Now that my classmates and I are old enough to have children, there are only 4 female members of my class who work. The expectation was set at the school that mothers raise the children. Now, when we look at the other female members of the town who are my age, had similarly well off parents, AND happened to go to the public school, things look different. Most of them have professional careers.

[FIREby35]

Public school for life! :)

[Bobberth]

We were very gung-ho Montessori. Our kids were going to a school that was pre K-8. We were set until HS. We loved it. And then through a series of events, and lots and lots of worrying and debating, we decided not to send our oldest daughter there for 3rd grade and for her to go to the public school. We also decided to send our middle daughter to public as well. She was first grade. Two months in and all of our worries were gone. The only regret was not sending our middle daughter to public school for K instead of 1st.

We originally moved to our house thinking they would stay in the Montessori school until 8th. Without really even considering the school district that much, we kind of lucked into a district we really love. This move was the typical out of the city core to the suburbs. Part of our decision to move was that we would rather pay more money into our house and have a tangible asset instead of paying for private school and staying in the city.

[Leisured]

I went to a public school in Australia, and have occasionally wondered about children who go to private schools. I have come to suspect that the benefit of private schools is not academic, but contact with other children whose parents know something about jobs, and about managing life.

For example, I knew next to nothing about law when I was at school, but have recently realised that being a lawyer specialising in wills can be rewarding, in a non material way. Had I known that when I was 18, I do not know what I would have done, but I would have had some worthwhile knowledge to guide my future life.

Schools are supposed to prepare the students for life, but in my experience they do not do a good job. My father was a farmer, so I grew up in something of a mental vacuum.

[LiveLean]

I went to public school through eighth grade and then got switched to an all-boys Catholic high school. Dad thought it would get me into better colleges and it probably did, though a number of my former 8th grade classmates were again classmates with me at the University of Virginia.

When I was a sophomore or junior, Dad heard of a couple of graduates of my high school who were moving on to lower-end state schools. I'll never forget his comment, something to the effect of, "Geez, I'd never pay the tuition if my kid was only going to get into that school. If you were just an average student, I'd send you back to public school and save the money."

Dad, a career corporate finance guy, was looking at it strictly in terms of ROI. We're Catholic, but he didn't care about the religious education component of it. Also worth noting that my senior year of high school (1986-87), tuition was only $2,300. Private school tuition, like college, has far outpaced inflation over the last 30 years.

This being graduation season and everyone posting photos and comments online of their kids and where they're going to college, I always think of Dad's comments, especially now that a K-12 private education can be $150,000 or more. Then I see what school the kid is going to and, like Dad, I can't help but think, couldn't you have saved the money and just gone to public school?

My two teenagers go to public high school because I just don't see the ROI for private school given today's astronomical prices.

[CorpRaider]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

it's a debate that I cannot win with my spouse. I still can't justify paying $11K this year for private school.

I'd get a divorce ;)

Now that would cost a lot more than $11K.

[calimom]

My youngest daughter was in a Montessori preschool from 2.5 to 5 years old. It was fabulous, she thrived and I loved the community. The school then goes from K-8 and I gave serious consideration to continuing through kindergarten. She loved it that much. But I decided on the public option where her older brother was enrolled. The kindergarten teacher she had was fabulous, and the early aftercare was more than adequate. The money saved was directed toward 529s for of my children, as opposed to tuition for one.

But I get it, we all need to make decisions based on our values and circumstances. The right answer for some is not the right answer for everyone.

[Bloop Bloop]

I went to a public school in Australia, and have occasionally wondered about children who go to private schools. I have come to suspect that the benefit of private schools is not academic, but contact with other children whose parents know something about jobs, and about managing life.

I think this is the key, and probably only, advantage to a private school - an environment more conducive to middle/upper-middle class lifestyle (but unfortunately, that comes with lower diversity, less exposure to 'real world' challenges, and higher snob content).

I think the truth is that anyone with the wherewithal to be on this forum has the knowledge - in terms of social/cultural/intellectual capital - to impart onto their children a good understanding of what it takes to be fulfilled/happy/successful (whichever) in life. The rest is just noise.

[Adam Zapple]

I don't understand why you would put a kid in private school for one year only.  My feeling is that the decision to switch to public school will be even more difficult once your child makes friends and you make connections in the private school community. 

[RetiredAt63]

I don't understand why you would put a kid in private school for one year only.  My feeling is that the decision to switch to public school will be even more difficult once your child makes friends and you make connections in the private school community.

So much this.  My DD kept all her friends from daycare when they all went to the same kindergarten and elementary school.  Such easy transitions, no stress.

DD did go to a private HS but that was because 1. the local English HS had a big drug problem, and 2. she became fluently bilingual at her relatively inexpensive private French HS.

[jjandjab]

My advice, based on our experience with 3 kids now in high school and beyond, would be to just do the highly rated public school in the lower grades. While others might disagree, I think much of the "learning" through 3rd-4th grade is social, as the curriculum is usually fairly standard.  Parents have just as much or more of an effect on learning in these years, especially if you have the time to spend with them after school/in the evenings and can spend time together travelling, etc. If the child is miserable or not learning, then move to private.

But later on, especially high school, private school may truly be beneficial and is also way more expensive. So perhaps save it for that.

I am a physician and did public all the way through 12th. We have three kids. All went to a small local private school for some mixture of pre K-2nd in our town, because it felt more "homey" but then we switched to public for a variety of reasons. While there were some nice things about the private school, the kids actually did better academically in the public setting.

By high school, one did great in public, one did eh in public (but had two concussions and this was likely the biggest factor) and our youngest hated the public high school, but is now in a private school and loving every minute of every day.

Kids are all different and there is no right answer but I will always feel the 100k we spent on their younger years in private school could have been saved or put to better use if we had just started with the public school.

[cowpuncher10]

I don't get the private school argument. Unless you have terrible public schools private school isn't an option. I have been around enough morons who went to private primary schools and private universities. Guess what. I went to a public primary school and public D3 university. I have the same, if not better, job and get paid more when we are the same age...as a matter of fact I am smug as hell about it too when they proudly boast "I went to Vandy" or "I went to Duke". Good job you incurred tons of debt that I didn't for less than what I currently have....

[FIREby35]

I don't get the private school argument. Unless you have terrible public schools private school isn't an option. I have been around enough morons who went to private primary schools and private universities. Guess what. I went to a public primary school and public D3 university. I have the same, if not better, job and get paid more when we are the same age...as a matter of fact I am smug as hell about it too when they proudly boast "I went to Vandy" or "I went to Duke". Good job you incurred tons of debt that I didn't for less than what I currently have....

Ha, I feel the same. I went to public k-12, community college, the cheapest state college and the public law school (there is a private, Catholic, Jesuit one just down the street). All the trash that was talked (from them to me, btw) but I'm the wealthy one who can do what he wants. Many others owe the "law school mortgage" that keeps them chained to sad jobs. Well, I guess to each their own. They can have prestige. I can have freedom.

[John Galt incarnate!]

Chiming in from the perspective of someone who did grades 10-11-12 in private after K-9 public. I'm SO GLAD my parents spent the money. It really helped me out a lot in that period of my life and now as a 30 something I'm in a position to earn my own $$ and don't regret not having it saved. 

In terms of schools attended, my K-12 scholastic experience was opposite of yours.

I attended K  at an excellent public school.

I have a vivid recollection of  my first day of attendance!

I attended  grades 1-8  at a very demanding Catholic school in which I received a superb education(lots of math, some Latin, grammar, spelling, reading, writing).

Then my parents wanted  to enroll me at a prestigious Catholic high school.

By then I was an atheist so I managed to talk them into letting me attend grades 9-12 at the local public high school.

This school too provided an excellent education.

Where our scholastic experiences converge is with respect to being "helped out," albeit at different ages.

You said that you were glad that your parents spent the money to send you to a private school for grades 10-12 for the reason that it helped you out.

I am sure that the rigors of my 1-8 education at Catholic school  helped   me do well in grades 9-12 at public high school.

Our parents' money was well spent.
 

[Buffaloski Boris]

One thing I wanted to comment on that I see a lot of here are these sort of pre-emptive limitations on the discussion by the OP. One of the beauties of this website is that you’re getting the time and talent of some really smart and often very wealthy people, all for free. And the answers are often not at all what you expect.  Why would you want to limit the discussion? Further, there are few financial questions that are purely financial.

This is not a financial question. If school A is truly equal to school B, then why would anyone pay $12,000 more per year for the same thing? 

[zarfus]

I don't know what you're looking for, OP, but here are some reasons why my wife "won" the debate of private vs good public school:

-Bell schedule lines up better with our jobs, so pickup/dropoff was a lot more feasible
-Smaller school in general, I do believe students will get extra care/notice if they need help
-Religious education is important to us
-private school offers 3k, which is something we will definitely leverage
-overall school tour/open house was a better experience at the private school

Our is around 5k/student, so not as expensive as 11k..I do think that would be a tough one for me to swallow.
Cheers!

[Leisured]

As an alternative to private schools, in Australia, in the state of New South Wales, the state education department runs selective public schools in Sydney. You have to be clever to get in. I hear that rich Australians usually send their children to private schools, whereas clever Chinese immigrants send their children to selective public schools, at no charge. My youngest brother went to a selective public school in Sydney.

In my previous post I said that I had gone to a public school, and I add that it was in a country town. I suggested that the real advantage of a private school is that you mix with clever children from clever parents, but you can do that, in NSW, by attending a selective public school.

I have heard that some parents deliberately move to an upmarket suburb to get into the 'catchment area' of the local public school, which will be attended by some clever students.

I first thought of the value of clever and knowledgeable students when I read the Harry Potter novels, where some of the students had parents who had unusual jobs and knew a lot.
 

[Kyle Schuant]

ok. not getting into debate which one is better or not, just purely financial perspective.

Public. How is this a question?

But presumably there are considerations other than money, or you wouldn't bother sending them to school at all.

[Bloop Bloop]

As an alternative to private schools, in Australia, in the state of New South Wales, the state education department runs selective public schools in Sydney. You have to be clever to get in. I hear that rich Australians usually send their children to private schools, whereas clever Chinese immigrants send their children to selective public schools, at no charge. My youngest brother went to a selective public school in Sydney.

In my previous post I said that I had gone to a public school, and I add that it was in a country town. I suggested that the real advantage of a private school is that you mix with clever children from clever parents, but you can do that, in NSW, by attending a selective public school.

I have heard that some parents deliberately move to an upmarket suburb to get into the 'catchment area' of the local public school, which will be attended by some clever students.

I first thought of the value of clever and knowledgeable students when I read the Harry Potter novels, where some of the students had parents who had unusual jobs and knew a lot.

I think the public selective schools are the best of both worlds. Good academic grounding, cheap, and don't have to deal with snobbery.

The arguments that I see being trotted out against them are:

1. - Too much pressure on children to succeed on the entrance exams. While this is undoubtedly true, that's a matter for each individual parent. No one's forcing you to put your kid under pressure, or to subject him or her to hours of prep. If your kid's smart enough, he/she will get in.

2. - Socio-economic unfairness. This is actually an invalid criticism. The selective school entrance exams are weighted based on the socio-economic distribution of the feeder school. So poor kids who go to poor schools have a leg up (as they should) when it comes to getting in.

3. - Over-emphasis on academics. Hmm, funny. I thought school was mostly about academics. Anyway, see point 1 above. If you want your children to be well-rounded, don't expect their maths or English teacher to do it. That shit's up to you.

4. - "Ethnic enclave" - I don't see anything wrong with this. I'm not advocating for it, but if it happens that intelligent but not-capitally-wealthy migrants send their kids to a school, I'd want my children going there, if only to understand how to be a model minority and how to overcome adversity. You want to see work ethic, go copy successful immigrants, man.

5. - Limited networking - the argument here is that you get a better old boys'/old girls' network from sending kids to a snooty private school than an egalitarian public school. While this is probably true at face value, you also have to deal with the negative effects, like snobbery. More to the point, if your kids are smart enough to get into a selective school, they're probably smart enough to learn how to network anyway; and if you as a parent are smart enough to be on this site, you're smart enough to teach your kids whatever values you think are important.

[Kyle Schuant]

In Australia, we have a website which lets us compare schools. One significant measure is ICSEA, which is basically the parents' education and income. A school where 50% of the kids are from families in the top quartile and 3% the bottom is a different place to one where 50% are in bottom and 3% in the top.

https://www.myschool.edu.au/more-information/information-for-principals-and-teachers/icsea-for-principals/

Statistics are that outcomes are similar for public and private schools if matched by ICSEA quartiles. That is, you are paying the fees to make sure your child has peers whose parents care about their education. The networking would be a similar benefit - if all your classmates' parents are unemployed then when they graduate they can't help you as much as if your classmates' parents are all doctors, lawyers and accountants. Famously, Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan were in the same public school as kids - and were later PM and Treasurer. Of course, the esprit du corps thing of named private schools does add to this.

[GetItRight]

Fun fact, private schools (in most cases) cost a fraction of what government schools cost.

[mm1970]

Fun fact, private schools (in most cases) cost a fraction of what government schools cost.

That probably varies widely.  Cost per student here is about $8000 a year.
Private school tuition is $18,000 and up.

(less if you are going to Catholic school, but I'd like my education without a side of religion).

However, cost per student at the next district over is $22,000 a year.

Of course there are many factors to be included in cost - such as public school teachers get medical insurance, and a pension (much of which they pay for out of their salary).  Private school teachers salaries are, in general, quite a bit lower. (25%)  And no pension.

[Chuck]

I had a friend named Sam who went to my elementary school. He went to a private kindergarten, then came over to public. He was testing out at two years ahead. That kind of advantage carries a kid all through their education, if you keep on top of them and don't let them get lazy.

[Scortius]

I had a friend named Sam who went to my elementary school. He went to a private kindergarten, then came over to public. He was testing out at two years ahead. That kind of advantage carries a kid all through their education, if you keep on top of them and don't let them get lazy.

You're making the mistake of assuming the year of private Kindergarten took him from performing at grade level to being two years ahead.

[SecondEngineer]

I went to public school up until middle school then went to a private high school.

Since we're talking finances only, I think we should be concerned with how your kid turns out. If spending $100k on them over 12 years helps them be able to earn an extra $150k per 12 years over their career then that sounds pretty good. You might look at it as a socially acceptable way to give your kid a lot of money as they start out (but also force them to earn it).

I usually assume the university I got into wouldn't have accepted me if I went to public school. There were just too many opportunities at my private school, and its name alone carried weight. Is that the type of private school you're looking at? Or is it just a traditional religious institution that gets by because people feel obligated to send their kids there? (Not knocking religious schools, it's just a trope I've seen a lot. My high school was religious but it was also competitive in terms of applications).

My advice is to see if your public school has accelerated programs. Luckily the public school I went to had a simple program to get kids ~2 grades ahead in math. I cannot stress how helpful getting ahead in math was for me (and it was free). The local public high school wasn't necessarily ready to continue that accelerated pace (with AP/IB classes) so I went to private school. There I could take the AP classes that probably got me into my university (and made college much easier because I came in with some credit).

So find out what the material benefits of private school would be (extracirriculars that don't exist at the public school, additional classes that are offered, etc.). Don't necessarily trust things like college admissions rates or "5% of our students were accepted to Ivy Leagues!", as that could be confirmation bias.

I would recommend public school in the lower grades. Encourage your kid to do their best to get ahead (maybe even get private tutors to accelerate them in math or something if the public school doesn't offer it). If they are outgrowing their school, consider private school to allow them to reach their full potential. But there were plenty of kids at my private high school who didn't really care that much and just did what it took to get by. There were also plenty of kids at the public school my sister went to that were motivated and achieved a great deal. There's no point in paying for private school if the kid won't be willing/able to take full advantage of it.

Good luck making a decision.