Author Topic: Preppers  (Read 40819 times)

jmusic

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Preppers
« on: March 23, 2015, 09:16:51 AM »
So I've been on here awhile, but I just stumbled across another community that is all about preparing for disasters up to and including the breakdown of government.  It seems to me that they have a **FEW** things in common with the frugal mindset on here (self-reliance, and the aversion to debt).

Since I'm already debt free (renting though) and have a 'stache of $60K, I'm thinking that it would be prudent to take a few baby steps toward that mentality (though I fully realize that this particular rabbit-hole can go deep into "tin foil hat wearing nutzoid" territory).  Specifically, I'm thinking of building a 'stache of 15 days of food and water, a small amount of cash on hand, and don't let my gas tank below 1/2. 

Thoughts?

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2015, 09:20:39 AM »
This is VERY smart to do, not for an end of the world scenario, but rather a "shit happens" scenario.

I live on LI in New York, after hurricane Sandy and Ivan we had no power for a week, there was a run on gas stations, stores were not accepting CC/Debit cards etc.

We were lucky that we had running water, which requires electricity. If the running water was out for a week. I guarantee there would have been mass panic.

Having a stocked pantry of food you EAT AND ROTATE regularly is a good idea.

As is having a week or two of drinking water per household member.

Heck, even our own government has some great guidelines for emergency preparedness that everyone should look at and possibly implement.

Retired To Win

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2015, 09:21:58 AM »
...Specifically, I'm thinking of building a 'stache of 15 days of food and water, a small amount of cash on hand, and don't let my gas tank below 1/2. 

Thoughts?

Our food stash: about 6 months to a year's worth... Our cash stash: a few thousand... plus over a thousand silver dimes...  our own well and back-up propane generator... same as you are planning on the gas tank.

So, what am I saying?  If you are going to go that route, raise the ante a little.

Good luck.

Khaetra

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2015, 09:25:36 AM »
Living in a state that has seen a few hurricanes, being 'prepped' is a wise idea, not only for those who might be impacted by a storm but for everyone.  I agree with 2Birds that an 'oh shit' can happen anytime and anywhere.  Having a couple weeks of food and water, cash (small bills) and a reasonable amount of gas is a good thing.

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2015, 09:25:51 AM »
Sounds very reasonable.

For whatever reason, it is possible to slip into a over-prepping mode which involves guns buried in the yard, 10,000 rounds of ammo, 150 year supply of MREs, $100,000 below ground bunker etc.  If you begin to show any symptoms of over-prepping, stop and get help right away.  Some people really do end up mentally ill over the whole thing.

jmusic

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2015, 09:30:12 AM »
Sounds very reasonable.

For whatever reason, it is possible to slip into a over-prepping mode which involves guns buried in the yard, 10,000 rounds of ammo, 150 year supply of MREs, $100,000 below ground bunker etc.  If you begin to show any symptoms of over-prepping, stop and get help right away.  Some people really do end up mentally ill over the whole thing.

Agreed, hence this comment: 

(though I fully realize that this particular rabbit-hole can go deep into "tin foil hat wearing nutzoid" territory). 

jmusic

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2015, 09:37:38 AM »
...Specifically, I'm thinking of building a 'stache of 15 days of food and water, a small amount of cash on hand, and don't let my gas tank below 1/2. 

Thoughts?

Our food stash: about 6 months to a year's worth... Our cash stash: a few thousand... plus over a thousand silver dimes...  our own well and back-up propane generator... same as you are planning on the gas tank.

So, what am I saying?  If you are going to go that route, raise the ante a little.

Good luck.

Any specific recommendations about sourcing the food without breaking the piggy bank?  For cash I've read that smaller bills are best (denominations of $5 thru $20), and coins are a waste of space unless they have melt value (as yours do).

Kris

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 10:03:00 AM »
Reasonable.  In our case, we're not all that able to do much, since we live in a small home without a lot of storage space.  So we're not going to be as prepared as you, I guess!

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2015, 10:05:21 AM »
One source that I enjoy is The Survival Podcast.

Some of the topics discussed can get into the range of nutjob tinfoil hat in my opinion, but he offer lots of good resources.  Topics covered are varied from food storage, gardening, emergency power sources, hunting, firearm use and safety, and water storage.  Lots of good stuff and the vendors he recommends are pretty top notch is the area.

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2015, 10:25:33 AM »
If you want to do something constructive, I suggest finding out if your area has a Community Emergency Response Team. Mine offers training in basic medical, triage in mass casualty events, search and rescue, fire suppression, radio operation, etc, so that teams can support local first responders in a major emergency, or carry out operations themselves if the need arises.  And you get to work together with your neighbors instead of hiding in your basement.

https://www.fema.gov/community-emergency-response-teams

Moonwaves

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2015, 10:40:29 AM »
I started prepping a few years ago. It was around the time of the swine flu scare, which happened to coincide with my having moved country and, for the first time in years, not living in a houseshare or with anyone else at all. So the whole thing got me thinking about what if I got sick and wasn't able to get out to the shops, if I was too sick to be really hungry it'd be fine but what about recovery, if I was still too weak to get out but now needed to be feeding myself. That kind of thought. So I started building up food stores a little bit. Here's my advice, for what it's worth:
- Do some a lot of reading before jumping in to anything - don't go out and spend thousands buying dried food packs and "food for a year" deals. If you really want to start right now, add two more packets of whatever dried foods with a long shelf-life you will be buying at your next shop to the basket.
- One piece of advice you'll see over and over again is to only buy stuff you actually eat. That's good advice. By all means try stuff out but if you loathe lentils, don't lay in a gross ton of them just 'cos they're healthy.
- Another piece of good advice that is absolutely essential: keep an inventory and rotate your stock.

I came across a website called Food Storage Made Easy at some stage and they have a babysteps checklist series you can get. Gives you a new task every two weeks to build up to a full year's supply.

caliq

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2015, 10:51:24 AM »
...Specifically, I'm thinking of building a 'stache of 15 days of food and water, a small amount of cash on hand, and don't let my gas tank below 1/2. 

Thoughts?

Our food stash: about 6 months to a year's worth... Our cash stash: a few thousand... plus over a thousand silver dimes...  our own well and back-up propane generator... same as you are planning on the gas tank.

So, what am I saying?  If you are going to go that route, raise the ante a little.

Good luck.

+1, sort of

I have more than 15 days worth of food in my house at pretty much all times, and that's not counting the things in the freezer that would spoil fairly rapidly in a serious oh-shit scenario.  It's got more to do with an excess of storage space and the fact that bulk buying is considerably cheaper than small purchases at the high-priced local grocery stores (I live in a wealthy suburb of a large city that does things like not allow Walmarts in because it would 'ruin the character of the town.')

I don't keep more than $50 or so in cash on me, and I only do that because I sometimes have to pay for parking at school. 

And keeping your gas tank above 1/2 is just general good preparedness practice imo -- not for natural disasters or end of the world type stuff but more mundane situations.  What if you have a family medical emergency and have to drive to the hospital in the middle of the night?  Last thing you want to do is stop and have to fill up the tank. 

To me, OP, it kind of sounds like you're taking general 'smart things to do' and reframing them as 'disaster prepping.'  If you really want to disaster prep, you need to actually disaster prep...

waffle

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2015, 10:52:53 AM »
For me prepping is important, but its all about playing the odds. Should I put away a fairly large supply of food, cash, water, and other basic necessities. Yes, because the chances that I will need them at some point is fairly high (natural disasters, unemployment, etc...) and the cost of doing it is fairly low. Should I blow my life savings on underground bunkers and hidden mountain strongholds? Probably not because the cost of doing so would make a large detrimental impact on my daily life, and because the odds of needing it are fairly low.
I'm all about preparing for the future as best you can without going overboard. If by chance I ever become extremely wealthy I might build a mountain hide-away because the relative cost vs. need would make it worth it.

jmusic

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2015, 11:10:23 AM »
Firearm training and safety is even more important than owning one IMO.  The only thing worse than not owning a gun is owning one that's taken from you in a self-defense scenario.

SuperSecretName

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2015, 11:16:47 AM »
prepare to sink down the rabbit hole very fast.

years ago, I was buying/selling gold due to advantageous ebay and other cashback programs.  I ended up on some gold forums, and as you might imagine, they were heavily populated by SHTFers.

After my gold buying ended and I was no longer visiting those sites, I looked back and was like, what the hell was I thinking?  It is a very slippery slope.

honestly, buy yourself a big box of cliffbars from Costco and a case or two of water that you drink and rotate.  Have a couple hundred in cash at home.  That is all that is really necessary.

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2015, 11:25:14 AM »
A couple hundred bucks of cash, canned food, water is my SHTF stash. I figure I need a week or two of supplies at most.

If you're considering self/home defense - an AR-15 or pistol with 30-100 rounds of ammunition is enough.

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2015, 11:41:03 AM »
If you're considering self/home defense - an AR-15 or pistol with 30-100 rounds of ammunition is enough.
Doesn't that depend on what your 'neighbors' have?  And (if so,) how do you know what they have?!?
Besides, as other have said, weapons are useless w/o knowing how to use them.

jmusic

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2015, 11:41:34 AM »
To me, OP, it kind of sounds like you're taking general 'smart things to do' and reframing them as 'disaster prepping.'  If you really want to disaster prep, you need to actually disaster prep...

This is a good point.  I just think that I've gotten lackadaisical about it (as have a lot of folks).  I haven't been keeping any extra cash, food, water, or gas, as I have assumed that all will be in easy reach.  During just about any adverse scenario, at least one of these assumptions will be proven false.

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2015, 11:47:24 AM »
Yes, as a multiple "prepper" having lived on a fault line, been through snow and ice storms and having spent a portion of my career helping businesses preparedness, I can avow that there are some dark alleys in the survivalist interwebs, but plenty of useful ones in what I characterize as the prepper community.

I like this guys thoughts as someone who actually experienced a disaster, so has experiences to back him up.  I have implemented some of his thoughts into action, but not nearly all of them:

 http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html

My question to most "disaster planning experts" begins with "tell me about the biggest disaster you have managed your way through"  Most survivalist based websites don't have a satisfactory answer.

caliq

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2015, 11:50:37 AM »
To me, OP, it kind of sounds like you're taking general 'smart things to do' and reframing them as 'disaster prepping.'  If you really want to disaster prep, you need to actually disaster prep...

This is a good point.  I just think that I've gotten lackadaisical about it (as have a lot of folks).  I haven't been keeping any extra cash, food, water, or gas, as I have assumed that all will be in easy reach.  During just about any adverse scenario, at least one of these assumptions will be proven false.

You make a good point too.  The only reason I do keep extra of these things is because, as I mentioned above, I live in a very high-priced small suburb -- one gas station, one 'market' that is not even really a grocery store, etc.  So it's much cheaper for me to do all my shopping near school/work (about a half hour from home).  Gas, for example, is about 20 cents cheaper per gallon near school than it is at home.  I don't have things within easy reach unless I want to pay a significant premium for them, which I usually refuse to do. 

jmusic

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2015, 12:37:34 PM »
I don't have things within easy reach unless I want to pay a significant premium for them, which I usually refuse to do.

And that's before we even start talking about the price gouging that would inevitably occur during disaster...

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2015, 01:36:58 PM »
So I've been on here awhile, but I just stumbled across another community that is all about preparing for disasters up to and including the breakdown of government.  It seems to me that they have a **FEW** things in common with the frugal mindset on here (self-reliance, and the aversion to debt).

Since I'm already debt free (renting though) and have a 'stache of $60K, I'm thinking that it would be prudent to take a few baby steps toward that mentality (though I fully realize that this particular rabbit-hole can go deep into "tin foil hat wearing nutzoid" territory).  Specifically, I'm thinking of building a 'stache of 15 days of food and water, a small amount of cash on hand, and don't let my gas tank below 1/2. 

Thoughts?

Could never understand the Preppers aversion to debt. If your expecting total collapse at anytime might as well run up some bills?

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2015, 02:08:02 PM »
So I've been on here awhile, but I just stumbled across another community that is all about preparing for disasters up to and including the breakdown of government.  It seems to me that they have a **FEW** things in common with the frugal mindset on here (self-reliance, and the aversion to debt).

Since I'm already debt free (renting though) and have a 'stache of $60K, I'm thinking that it would be prudent to take a few baby steps toward that mentality (though I fully realize that this particular rabbit-hole can go deep into "tin foil hat wearing nutzoid" territory).  Specifically, I'm thinking of building a 'stache of 15 days of food and water, a small amount of cash on hand, and don't let my gas tank below 1/2. 

Thoughts?

Could never understand the Preppers aversion to debt. If your expecting total collapse at anytime might as well run up some bills?

I am also confused about the debt aversion.

I'm not nearly as prepared as I should be, even for basic stuff. It's been on my to do list for a long time to set up a 72 hour emergency kit, I just keep putting it off. I used to have a lot of non-perishable food, but lately I've been eating it all trying to clear out the cupboards a bit. Also, often a lot of my food is frozen, which won't help much when the power goes out.

As a result of this thread I just texted my brother's girlfriend and asked her if she'd teach me how to do canning this fall, in exchange for free labor. Step 1.

Also I should at least get some water. I don't like buying bottled water, but if I fill up my 7 gallon camping jug with water and replace it every month or two it's a start right?

jmusic

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2015, 02:27:17 PM »
So I've been on here awhile, but I just stumbled across another community that is all about preparing for disasters up to and including the breakdown of government.  It seems to me that they have a **FEW** things in common with the frugal mindset on here (self-reliance, and the aversion to debt).

Since I'm already debt free (renting though) and have a 'stache of $60K, I'm thinking that it would be prudent to take a few baby steps toward that mentality (though I fully realize that this particular rabbit-hole can go deep into "tin foil hat wearing nutzoid" territory).  Specifically, I'm thinking of building a 'stache of 15 days of food and water, a small amount of cash on hand, and don't let my gas tank below 1/2. 

Thoughts?

Could never understand the Preppers aversion to debt. If your expecting total collapse at anytime might as well run up some bills?

From what I've gathered so far is that when poo hits the fan (SHTF in their lingo), staying put is the situationally dependent Plan A.  Even in an economic collapse, someone is gonna try to foreclose or evict you if you're not paying a mortgage or rent. 

jmusic

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2015, 02:41:34 PM »
Another thing that I find funny is that most of them are scared of hyperinflation (buy gold!!), while I believe DEflation is the more probable outcome. 

In the deflation scenario, "too big to fail" megabank X  loses a big derivatives bet (perhaps related to Greek Exit, or oil hedging?) and becomes insolvent.  The last time this happened in 2008, Uncle Sam was there to bail out said banks.  However, in the current politcal climate that will not likely happen again. 

So the next course of action for Megabank X is to do a "bail in."  Basically this involves a bank holiday and they write down the assets of all of their account holders by, say, 30%.  So when you had $3000 in the bank, now you have $2100 like magic (and yes, they can do this!).  Trouble is, you had a mortgage payment coming out for $2600, and now it bounces. 

Multiply what I just described by hundreds of thousands of people with similar issues, and the house of cards starts falling down pretty quickly; brokers, businesses, and individuals would all be affected in some fashion...

gimp

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2015, 02:48:46 PM »
I find the doomsday preppers who are stashing gold hilarious. You want to prep for doomsday? A self-sustainable cabin (or better yet, a nice cave) out in the middle of nowhere, huge plot of land, animals and crops; massive storage of guns, ammo, repair components, a non-electric workshop (or using only electricity generated on site), with manuals; a ton of dried food and clean water. Some cash.

Or, like a normal person, just keep some food and water and flashlights and cash on hand in case of an earthquake or whatever.

Beridian

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2015, 03:48:19 PM »
I have watched the TV series "Prepper" on National Geographic channel and I have to say a great many of those folks need to seek mental health treatment.  I do however believe in being prudent and responsible to my family.

I have a small generator that will run my furnace and refrigerator.  I keep an extra 5 gallon can of gasoline in the garage, and I rotate it out in the spring and fall by dumping it into my car tank and refilling.  I keep two 20-lb tanks of propane, one on my grill and a spare, comes in handy when I run out in the middle of a summer barbecue.   I keep a 7 gallon jug of water in the cellar and a case of bottled water.  I have camping equipment, a water purifier filter, a propane stove, a box of flashlight batteries, and one of those buckets of dried food that is supposed to last for twenty years.  I also try to keep my car's gas tank filled as much as possible and my cupboards have lots of stuff in them, I would wager it could last a couple of months.

The funny thing about all the kooky preppers is that they assume the worst in people, they expect people will turn into cannibalistic barbarians who will eat babies and burn down wealthy sub-divisions.  My experience (55 years) has been that crisis's tend to bring out the best in people and not the worst.  People pull together and help each other out.  This is what I expect would happen if any of those prepper scenarios occurred.

(We were out of power for about six days back during the great east coast blackout, it was one long fun and relaxed block party).

« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 03:51:30 PM by Beridian »

jmusic

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2015, 04:01:48 PM »
I have watched the TV series "Prepper" on National Geographic channel and I have to say a great many of those folks need to seek mental health treatment.  I do however believe in being prudent and responsible to my family.

I have a small generator that will run my furnace and refrigerator.  I keep an extra 5 gallon can of gasoline in the garage, and I rotate it out in the spring and fall by dumping it into my car tank and refilling.  I keep two 20-lb tanks of propane, one on my grill and a spare, comes in handy when I run out in the middle of a summer barbecue.   I keep a 7 gallon jug of water in the cellar and a case of bottled water.  I have camping equipment, a water purifier filter, a propane stove, a box of flashlight batteries, and one of those buckets of dried food that is supposed to last for twenty years.  I also try to keep my car's gas tank filled as much as possible and my cupboards have lots of stuff in them, I would wager it could last a couple of months.

The funny thing about all the kooky preppers is that they assume the worst in people, they expect people will turn into cannibalistic barbarians who will eat babies and burn down wealthy sub-divisions.  My experience (55 years) has been that crisis's tend to bring out the best in people and not the worst.  People pull together and help each other out.  This is what I expect would happen if any of those prepper scenarios occurred.

(We were out of power for about six days back during the great east coast blackout, it was one long fun and relaxed block party).

Sounds like you have a pretty good system. 

Regarding the block party, it's too bad that it takes stuff like that for us to escape from our own circle of BS.  These days every single head is buried in a phone or a tablet...

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2015, 04:23:41 PM »
I'm a "prepper" only in the sense that I'm interested in relearning the pantry-keeping methods of the past, and living with the seasons. I'm slowly working towards having a rotating stock of 3-6 months of core staples, and my garden gets bigger every year.

Two resource suggestions for sane preparation advice:

1. "Independence Days" by Sharon Astyk

2. "Food Storage for People Who Don't Hate Food" at the blog NWEdible.

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2015, 04:33:42 PM »
Here's a link about preparedness you might enjoy from after Katrina: http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/

It's kinda old, but I found it interesting.

irishbear99

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2015, 05:11:47 PM »
A great resource for disaster preparedness is www.ready.gov. It suggests a three-step process to becoming more prepared. Specifically, it has a great "shopping calendar" that provides a plan on how to slowly build your emergency kit over several months so you're not dropping a whole lot of money at once.

firewalker

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2015, 05:28:09 PM »
I'm taking the MMM approach and investing in Zombie index funds!

MrsPete

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2015, 06:14:04 PM »
I've been reading prepper information for some time now, and although the hard-core preppers are nuts, a moderate amount of prepping is smart.  Canned food, paper products, bottled water, candles, etc. make sense -- and they're things you're going to buy anyway. 

Of course, if you really believe that this is all going to be worthwhile in a monster-sized catastrophe, you'd be smart to also save guns and ammo.

I like the recipes on http://foodstoragemadeeasy.net/ -- several of them have become family favorites, and the fact that they can be made with shelf-stable items is a bonus. 

kpd905

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2015, 06:18:43 PM »
The prepping mentality of keeping enough food and water to last you a few weeks is never going to hurt.  But many preppers seem to avoid the stock market and instead invest all of their money in gold, silver and lead.


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Re: Preppers
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2015, 06:41:36 PM »
Or, like a normal person, just keep some food and water and flashlights and cash on hand in case of an earthquake or whatever.

"Normal people" are the people who panic-shop and empty store shelves the moment the east coast gets a prediction of a snowstorm that might, possibly, be a little bit larger than usual.

Several thoughts:
- Long term food storage and buying in bulk go well together.  Even if you're planning to go through it, buying 50 lbs of rice or beans at a time is generally a lot cheaper than buying it in 5lb bags.  Storage is easy.
- 5 gallon buckets + "Gamma lids" (really nice, slightly expensive screw top lids with air/water tight seals) make for easy stacking storage - even for things like pet food or bird seed, they're very useful.  I keep my bird seed on the back porch, in Seattle, in one of these buckets, and so far it hasn't gotten wet and critters haven't figured out their way in.
- Short term, water storage is nice.  Long term, water filters are better, if you're in an area that has local water and rain.  A decent water filter can filter thousands of gallons.
- Mylar bags and oxygen absorbers are cheap.
- Light is awesome.  Flashlights have gotten so insanely good lately with LED technology.
- A bit of cash laying around is never a bad thing.  In emergency situations, ATMs and credit card networks have a way of stopping functioning.  Cash is king.

I think it's easy to go overboard, but there's also a certain amount of "Preparing for likely events" that, I think, justifies a bit of food storage.  While it goes slightly against the minimalist ethos of MMM, I'd genuinely much rather have a bit of food stored and not need it (so just rotate it through my normal food rotation) than be caught in a storm/earthquake/etc, without anything to eat.

... also, I think the people who create these elaborate doomsteads and then show them off on television are a unique brand of idiot, but that's just me.

gimp

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2015, 07:17:50 PM »
Relevant:


Syonyk

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2015, 07:31:00 PM »
There is that, yes... being in good shape is probably a useful attribute if/when things fall apart.

southern granny

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2015, 07:37:48 PM »
We have been through three disasters,a tornado, an ice storm that knocked out power for almost a week, and a city wide water system failure.... we keep 2 cases of water, some food supplies (peanut butter, soups, canned meats) plus we always have a good supply of can goods on hand. We have guns and a small amount of ammunition. We also have a rain barrel, so if we had to we could use that water for drinking.   We keep about $200 dollars cash.  We have an above ground pool, so after the tornado we had all the neighbors coming over to get buckets of water to flush their toilets.  I believe in being prepared at least for minor emergencies.

Chuck

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2015, 09:28:22 PM »
I used to run a small business with a friend where we sold three day survival kits (Bug out Bags) at Prepper conventions. I got to meet a lot of people, and two families that had been on the NatGeo show. The community, as I experienced it, was a supportive, innovative group of people that were very good at policing their more radical elements. While you have in your mind a bunch of angry old Republicans preparing to resist the FEMA death squads, most of the community (in southern Georgia) is populated by people that learned first hand during Katrina that government assistance during disaster is neither timely nor omnipotent.

I think anyone here would appreciate the seminars given on "Simple Solar Water Heating" and "Sustainable Home Gardening". It is these necessities- access to food, (hot/clean) water and shelter, that occupy most of the time and energy of the Prepper movement. Firearms, while understood to be important in a world without police officers, are not the central focus. National Geographic makes you think they are, through a very selective editing process that puts the Daily Show to shame. I gave an interview to a young lady from the network during an event, and the questions asked were insulting and clearly designed to create spectacle rather than inform about methods and goals. 

Even those that take it too far (in my opinion) and prepare for imminent apocalypse, rather than a major disaster, do so in creative and largely constructive ways. I met a gentlemen who converted his ford truck to run on logs of wood, basically turning it into a 40 hp steam engine. Imagine!

EricL

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2015, 09:48:07 PM »
 I think there's a useful line to be drawn between the "preppers" and the old "survivalists".  The "survivalists" we're (since the 80's at least) and are the tinfoil hat types living in Idaho bunkers with tons of guns, ammo, etc. A "prepper" is a relatively modern term for someone who realized after Katrina, Sandy etc. they should prepare for their own survival.  At least until the situation moderates or the government successfully intervenes. Putting some money, effort, and research to survive a worst case scenario is wise.  Throwing all of the same believing the worst case scenario the most likely scenario, not so much. 

Syonyk

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2015, 10:07:27 PM »
I think the terms are probably reversed now due to the "Prepper" label getting applied to survival-bunker nuts with shows such as Doomsday Preppers.

EricL

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2015, 10:10:21 PM »
Well based on Chuck's post that's a damn shame.

FIPurpose

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2015, 10:27:09 PM »
I was living in Tuscaloosa during an e5 tornado in 2011. It didn't come directly where I was living, but for areas that were destroyed, there were dozens of breakins and robberies. I've never owned a gun, but I can say that night was scary. Not because of the tornado, but because of the people right after.

The next morning the looters are gone and people started rebuilding. It was an experience that was one of the worst and most uplifting of my life.

We had a gas grill that we could have cooked on all week, but there were also people in the community that regularly handed out meals to people helping clean up. In a disaster, just get out and help the community, and you'll be fine.

carolinecole

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2015, 10:56:22 PM »
There is that, yes... being in good shape is probably a useful attribute if/when things fall apart.

The first rule of Zombieland is cardio! 

surfhb

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2015, 12:42:15 AM »
If you're considering self/home defense - an AR-15 or pistol with 30-100 rounds of ammunition is enough.
Doesn't that depend on what your 'neighbors' have?  And (if so,) how do you know what they have?!?
Besides, as other have said, weapons are useless w/o knowing how to use them.

Not to mention the fact that the odds of you being in a situation to use a firearm in self defense are so small its hardly worth the cost of owning  a weapon at all ;)

BTW.....a 10 gauge shorty is the only weapon Id use for self defense.   
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 01:09:18 AM by surfhb »

jzb11

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2015, 05:26:56 AM »
If you're considering self/home defense - an AR-15 or pistol with 30-100 rounds of ammunition is enough.

Doesn't that depend on what your 'neighbors' have?  And (if so,) how do you know what they have?!?
Besides, as other have said, weapons are useless w/o knowing how to use them.

It doesn't really matter what your neighbors have. An AR-15 is an effective firearm for home defense (see the quotes and link further down).
And I 100% advocate for training. If you pick up a firearm, meet with a reputable instructor,train, and learn the proper use/function of the firearm.  Relevant resource here:

http://www.recoilweb.com/a-training-roadmap-one-instructors-suggestions-37199.html

Not to mention the fact that the odds of you being in a situation to use a firearm in self defense are so small its hardly worth the cost of owning  a weapon at all ;) 

Except for when that event actually occurs, and the cost of not owning a firearm is potentially your life, or the life of your loved ones.

Some may feel self defense isn't something they wish to concern themselves with due to the low probability of needing to. Personally I view it like insurance. I probably won't need to defend myself, but if I do  I'd rather have the means than not.

BTW.....a 10 gauge shorty is the only weapon Id use for self defense.

I'll take an AR-15 every time. And most well known/respected firearms trainers (most of which are ex LEO/military SF) would do the same:



Matt Graham of Graham Combat

"Nine out of 10 times I’m gonna take a carbine. The 10th time I’m going to use my pistol to go get it. In the theory of bring enough gun, carbine trumps pistol every time. Everything you can do with a pistol, you can do with a carbine but you have greater lethality. All penetration tests support a carbine, it’s just a better platform."

Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics:

“I tell ya Dave, my first choice for home defense would be a rifle for sure, an AR. One, it’s very maneuverable. If you don't feel you can maneuver with a carbine you just need some training. I run a 16” gun all the time and have no problem moving it around. Two, you have more firepower, with 30 rounds in the mag—and yes, I run 30 rounds in my 30 rounders."

Matt Jacques of Victory First

"A rifle is a very viable home defense weapon—provided you have the proper training."

Larry Vickers - Vickers Tactical

"I would disagree with that [the assertion that a rifle you should not use a rifle for self defense in the home]. Everybody shoots a rifle better. It takes a much higher level of skill to use a handgun efficiently; achieving proficiency with a rifle is substantially easier than with a handgun. That alone trumps any lack of maneuverability. If you have access to a rifle, that should be the first thing you grab. The bottom line is, you’re better off with a carbine with a red dot and a magazine that has roughly twice the magazine capacity of that of a handgun. You’ve got a lot more going for you with a long gun than a handgun."

Pat Rogers

"The 5.56mm carbine (don’t even consider 9x19mm or .40cal long guns to be carbines), especially the AR Family of Weapons is ergonomic, extremely reliable, and carries a sufficient amount of ammunition on board. Even with a 16” barrel it is easy to use within residences. Cops and military do that everyday, and under extreme circumstances. It is certainly shorter than a shotgun with an 18” barrel. It is the easiest of any of the commonly available weapons to manipulate or shoot."

"Let’s put this to rest right now. Rifles are not only a suitable arm for the “defense of hearth and home” they are (all things being equal) the best arm for it."

http://www.breachbangclear.com/the-truth-about-rifles-for-hearth-and-home/
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 05:37:52 AM by jzb11 »

2lazy2retire

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2015, 06:00:54 AM »
If you're considering self/home defense - an AR-15 or pistol with 30-100 rounds of ammunition is enough.

Doesn't that depend on what your 'neighbors' have?  And (if so,) how do you know what they have?!?
Besides, as other have said, weapons are useless w/o knowing how to use them.

It doesn't really matter what your neighbors have. An AR-15 is an effective firearm for home defense (see the quotes and link further down).
And I 100% advocate for training. If you pick up a firearm, meet with a reputable instructor,train, and learn the proper use/function of the firearm.  Relevant resource here:

http://www.recoilweb.com/a-training-roadmap-one-instructors-suggestions-37199.html

Not to mention the fact that the odds of you being in a situation to use a firearm in self defense are so small its hardly worth the cost of owning  a weapon at all ;) 

Except for when that event actually occurs, and the cost of not owning a firearm is potentially your life, or the life of your loved ones.

Some may feel self defense isn't something they wish to concern themselves with due to the low probability of needing to. Personally I view it like insurance. I probably won't need to defend myself, but if I do  I'd rather have the means than not.

BTW.....a 10 gauge shorty is the only weapon Id use for self defense.

I'll take an AR-15 every time. And most well known/respected firearms trainers (most of which are ex LEO/military SF) would do the same:



Matt Graham of Graham Combat

"Nine out of 10 times I’m gonna take a carbine. The 10th time I’m going to use my pistol to go get it. In the theory of bring enough gun, carbine trumps pistol every time. Everything you can do with a pistol, you can do with a carbine but you have greater lethality. All penetration tests support a carbine, it’s just a better platform."

Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics:

“I tell ya Dave, my first choice for home defense would be a rifle for sure, an AR. One, it’s very maneuverable. If you don't feel you can maneuver with a carbine you just need some training. I run a 16” gun all the time and have no problem moving it around. Two, you have more firepower, with 30 rounds in the mag—and yes, I run 30 rounds in my 30 rounders."

Matt Jacques of Victory First

"A rifle is a very viable home defense weapon—provided you have the proper training."

Larry Vickers - Vickers Tactical

"I would disagree with that [the assertion that a rifle you should not use a rifle for self defense in the home]. Everybody shoots a rifle better. It takes a much higher level of skill to use a handgun efficiently; achieving proficiency with a rifle is substantially easier than with a handgun. That alone trumps any lack of maneuverability. If you have access to a rifle, that should be the first thing you grab. The bottom line is, you’re better off with a carbine with a red dot and a magazine that has roughly twice the magazine capacity of that of a handgun. You’ve got a lot more going for you with a long gun than a handgun."

Pat Rogers

"The 5.56mm carbine (don’t even consider 9x19mm or .40cal long guns to be carbines), especially the AR Family of Weapons is ergonomic, extremely reliable, and carries a sufficient amount of ammunition on board. Even with a 16” barrel it is easy to use within residences. Cops and military do that everyday, and under extreme circumstances. It is certainly shorter than a shotgun with an 18” barrel. It is the easiest of any of the commonly available weapons to manipulate or shoot."

"Let’s put this to rest right now. Rifles are not only a suitable arm for the “defense of hearth and home” they are (all things being equal) the best arm for it."

http://www.breachbangclear.com/the-truth-about-rifles-for-hearth-and-home/

I wondered how long this post would run before the rednecks showed up - kinda like the zombies.

MOD NOTE: Cut it out. Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 04:04:31 PM by arebelspy »

Chuck

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2015, 06:06:26 AM »
For the record, I am also a gun owner, and a fan of the AR platform. I'm much closer to what you'd call "metro".

However, despite my familiarity with and fondness of the AR platform, I would rather use a shotgun inside of the home. Unmatched lethality under 10 yards, and substantially easier to hit a target with under stress. Then there's over penetration: I live in a row of townhouses.

MrsPete

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2015, 06:29:46 AM »
We have been through three disasters,a tornado, an ice storm that knocked out power for almost a week, and a city wide water system failure.... we keep 2 cases of water, some food supplies (peanut butter, soups, canned meats) plus we always have a good supply of can goods on hand. We have guns and a small amount of ammunition. We also have a rain barrel, so if we had to we could use that water for drinking.   We keep about $200 dollars cash.  We have an above ground pool, so after the tornado we had all the neighbors coming over to get buckets of water to flush their toilets.  I believe in being prepared at least for minor emergencies.
Yes, we've been through two disasters of the magnitude you describe, and I agree that your level of preparation is absolutely appropriate -- these things could happen again any time. 
Not to mention the fact that the odds of you being in a situation to use a firearm in self defense are so small its hardly worth the cost of owning  a weapon at all ;)
I disagree.  My brother sometimes works nights in a bad part of the big city near us ... and he has three times in the last few years been quite glad to have a firearm handy.  Once when some punks wanted to rob him at a gas station -- he just pulled the gun, and they ran.  Second when someone broke into his business while he was there alone at night -- again, he just walked out of the back room, gun in hand, and they ran.  The last time when he was out on a call and a man set two big dogs on him -- as the dogs approached, he shot one, the man and the other dog ran. 

If not for that pistol, I might no longer have a brother. 

jzb11

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Re: Preppers
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2015, 06:45:21 AM »
I wondered how long this post would run before the rednecks showed up - kinda like the zombies.

I'm curious, what part of being an engineer from the Midwest who has traveled to twenty five different countries and is currently working on an international assignment in South America equates to me being a redneck?

For the record, I am also a gun owner, and a fan of the AR platform. I'm much closer to what you'd call "metro".

However, despite my familiarity with and fondness of the AR platform, I would rather use a shotgun inside of the home. Unmatched lethality under 10 yards, and substantially easier to hit a target with under stress. Then there's over penetration: I live in a row of townhouses.

A shotgun is much more punishing to shoot than an AR, is more likely to over pentrate than an AR, and has much less capacity as well. On penetration:

As for the rounds, with proper ammo selection the 5.56 rounds have less penetration of walls and barriers than some of today’s modern handgun ammunition. You can go up to some of the 70 grain TSX loads and still have less penetration than some of those hot pistol loads, and it’s going to expend a lot of energy through those intermediate barriers and start breaking up almost immediately - steve fisher - from the article.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 07:09:17 AM by jzb11 »