Author Topic: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?  (Read 109160 times)

HenryDavid

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Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« on: January 27, 2017, 09:30:00 AM »
Up here in Canada I am THIS close to dumping a chunk of savings presently in (very low fee) mutual funds, into short-term interest deposits. Reports on the new administration's first week have been alarming. From here it looks like seat-of-the-pants government by a kid with no impulse control. One main concern I have is that trust in government agencies will start to be undermined (The Congressional Budget Office, the Bureau of Labour Statistics, etc), and since major businesses rely on these to make decisions, and hate to act in the dark, this will cause a degree of paralysis, slow investment, etc.
And/or: trade wars and protectionism! Didn't work out well in the 1930s.
Stocks are at all time highs, but how can that last? It might be the ideal time to go into a protective huddle and wait out the Trump years. Even the most level-headed Canadian finance columnists have been suggesting we all just buy gold.
I realize this goes against all the wisdom stacked up against market timing, ever. And maybe there really will be a Trump boom. Thoughts?

GrumpyPenguin

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2017, 09:57:22 AM »
I dislike Trump as much as the next (well, Most, at least) MMMer, but I'm not making a single change to my portfolio.  I'll take a 50-year horizon approach on the thing and keep doing what I'm doing.

J Boogie

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2017, 10:00:56 AM »
I too have grown concerned by his erratic behavior - more so as a citizen of the USA and less so as an investor. 

I think Trump is wildly foolish in his impulses but not quite as foolish when the dust settles a little bit.

He has shown a habit of throwing outrageous statements out there, seeing how they're received, and fine tuning them.  It leaves his surrogates and press secretary looking like idiots, but his backtracking is a huge relief for the rest of us.

One big reason I don't fear a huge Trump-caused market downturn is that he has put his reputation on the line as being the man who will increase our prosperity.  If and when his behavior worsens our economic climate, he'll notice, and I think he'll fine tune his approach accordingly.  I think there will be a bit of a Trump boom, and I think it'll come at the cost of our environment.  Doesn't seem like he gives a rip about nature.  I cannot picture the guy on a hike or in a canoe for the life of me.

Rubyvroom

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2017, 10:16:41 AM »
A quick read (or re-read) through the Bogleheads Investment Philosophy may help calm your nerves. That's where I always go whenever I start to feel skittish about the market.

Also, the JL Collins stock series, specifically The Big Ugly Event may be worth reading (or re-reading).

I too am worried about the volatility he introduces, but I personally am staying the course. I am actually quite surprised markets aren't down further today after yesterday's 20% import tax threat. It's feels as though the market is becoming somewhat immune to his erratic behavior... which is kind of a scary thought. Good in some ways I suppose to help mitigate knee-jerk reactions, but definitely not normal.

Eric

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daverobev

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2017, 11:06:29 AM »
While I don't like his 'brand' of bullying politics, and I certainly don't like his personality, if anything I think for businesses he'll be fine.

Investing in individual stocks becomes higher risk (because you never know who he'll pick on next), but broad ETFs? Um, US corp tax is really high. Investment is low because corp tax is high, and repatriation of cash is taxed heavily. If that gets reduced, it should cause money to flow into the US.

I'd do a rebalance, sure, but not change the plan.

tarheeldan

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 11:13:46 AM »
I'm increasing the international equity share of my portfolio from 20% to 40%. This is an idea I'd already been toying with for over a year, and I saw studies on the "efficient frontier" for international diversification that pushed me over.

I bring this up here though, because Trump helped make the decision a little bit easier. I think his actions are likely to be supportive in the short run but detrimental in the long run - and this helped remind me I have too big of a home bias.

aceyou

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 11:26:34 AM »
American.  Can't stand Trump. 

Will make zero changes to philosophy...100% VTSAX

I'm in the accumulation stage. 

If market tanks, then VTSAX will cheaper to buy, so good for new money I invest.   
If market climbs, then good for the money I have already invested. 

But I have no idea which will happen other than him continuing to act like a tool. 

Milizard

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2017, 12:08:25 PM »
Thanks for reminding me.  I've been meaning to decrease the amount of funds that I own (inherited).  (I started last week, but forgot since then.)   I really need to simplify my portfolio into primarily low-cost index funds.  Things are bubbling up right now, so it's a good time to take advantage of those that are and sell off some of the mutual funds that I own.  I believe this bubbling is occurring due to Trump, so yes, they are happening because of him.  I think there will be a correction in the longer term, due in part to his policies.  That should present an opportunity as well.

dannymurphy

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2017, 01:27:00 PM »
So far Wall Street seems to be liking the new President... DJIA above 20k for the first time ever. Not what I'd expected to happen this week!

Beridian

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2017, 02:11:33 PM »
As much as I loathe the republican party, especially at the national level, they do tend to provide stock market tailwinds at least in the beginning of their terms.  There is much euphoria over potential tax cuts, deregulation, and repatriation of US dollars by big business.  I think there are still legs to drive the equity markets onward for at least a few more months.  The inevitable damage that republicans will do (unfunded tax cuts, disemboweling health care) will take some time before the rust starts to bubble up through the paint.  Near term Trump is just a guy with a pen needed to sign legislation (to paraphrase a popular republican axiom).

I think the celebration ends when Trump and congress butt heads in an intense fashion which is all but inevitable.  The republicans (perhaps rightfully) are always in a dither about deficits.  As such I am not looking for much in the way of infrastructure spending.  Conversely republicans never met a tax cut that they didn't like so this will likely free more dollars which will buoy up the markets further.   The wealth gap will continue to widen and infrastructure will continue to decay.  Not good for the country but I can work with these conditions as small investor and someone with a nest egg who is nearing retirement.  The stupid young people who couldn't be bothered to show up and vote (or protest voted 3rd party) will be the ones who get pummeled.  Oh well, we tried to warn them.

Most of my portfolio is in a few broad equity market funds and I am staying put until and unless I see major storm clouds.  I keep a small amount in gold and silver for the end of the world scenarios, and I currently have about 20% in cash with which I do some opportunistic short term trading.  To the original poster's question, no I wouldn't go all gold and move into a bunker just yet.  I would stay sensibly invested but keep a very close eye on the news and markets.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 02:24:22 PM by Beridian »

dandypandys

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2017, 02:25:29 PM »
Hate Trump, what a fool.
I am making no adjustments. Although I have a bit of gold already. I like to wrap my head around the idea of - if it tanks it just means there is a sale- actually I try not to even look.

CheapScholar

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2017, 02:46:02 PM »
So many haters.  I'm proud of my president.  I'm putting the cash I have that is not currently in investments and I'm going all in.  Mostly into mutual funds that hold stocks that should perform well with all the increased infrastructure. 

retired?

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2017, 03:04:20 PM »
So far Wall Street seems to be liking the new President... DJIA above 20k for the first time ever. Not what I'd expected to happen this week!

But, where is it going to go?  The ol CAPE is pretty high.  Just this week, I did a little rebal, but it was paying off my main home.  So, not Trump induced.

About 40% of the payoff amount came from cash and 60% from vanguard index stock fund.  New non-retirement position is about 20% cash and 80% stock.  Retirement funds are nearly all stock.

Most would say it is a poor choice since the loan rate was pretty low, but I like that now we can fully cover expenses from my wife's salary whereas before I was taking from savings to pay for mortgage.

ysette9

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2017, 03:08:43 PM »
I am embarrassed that he is president and find him to be alarmingly short-sighted, short-attentioned, completely without appreciation or respect for facts, and overall a total disaster. I am not changing anything about my investing strategy. The goal is 40% international and all future contributions are getting dumped into VTIAX until that is achieved. If the markets wake up to how much of a disaster he is and dump for the next <4 years (we can all hope), then that is fine provided he did no long-lasting damage and they recover.

That is just financially though. Socially and otherwise he could do a lot of damage in that timeframe.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 03:10:48 PM by ysette9 »

Davids

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2017, 04:13:25 PM »
We mustachians should be liking Trump. One of his plans in replacing Obamacare will be expanding the HSA, that will be great for us and remember it was republicans who created the HSA.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2017, 05:12:29 PM »
This is a great time to be alive.

What is everyone worried about exactly? Unless you are about to FIRE in the next year or two, low equity prices and high interest rates are great for an accumulating investor.


EricL

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2017, 07:36:36 PM »
I'm suffering a fair amount of anxiety over Trump investingwise. Yes, my stocks and index fund are up in reaction to his alleged business friendly attitudes. But at the same time his political appointees are the same people and types of people that aided and abetted the 2008 debacle. And his rush to deregulate is as subtle as a flamethrower.  As far as Goldman Sachs goes the Republicans might as well have elected Hillary.

Basically he's setting our markets up for a fall. Yes, a fall is almost due anyways - the pundits are already cheering our markets. Soon enough they'll be screaming stocks are a "can't lose proposition".  I'm guessing in 2-4 years.  But with Trump the fall will likely be harder, deeper, and longer if not sooner.  And the response will be stupider and slower - if he's around to fix it.  The Democratic Party may stage a comeback. Or not. I don't have much faith in them coming back or doing anything if they do. I have less faith in the "drink my own pee" Republican Breitbart stripe ideologues.

I should be OK but I don't relish watching the country burn down around me.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2017, 07:46:55 PM »
American.  Can't stand Trump. 

Will make zero changes to philosophy...

This appears to be at least fairly representative of what's in this thread so far.

I appreciate the collective "voice of (at least partial) sanity" amongst all of the political...um...well, nevermind. Good to know others aren't panicking.


fattest_foot

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2017, 08:01:23 PM »
So many haters.  I'm proud of my president.  I'm putting the cash I have that is not currently in investments and I'm going all in.  Mostly into mutual funds that hold stocks that should perform well with all the increased infrastructure.

Agreed. And I don't get calling him unpredictable. He's completely following his 100 day plan to a T. I'd say he's the most predictable President we've had in the modern era. Most Presidents campaign on something and immediately abandon it when they take office.

As much as people want to believe he's stupid, stupid people don't become billionaires (no matter how much they inherit) nor do they become President.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2017, 08:02:56 PM »
This is a great time to be alive.

What is everyone worried about exactly? Unless you are about to FIRE in the next year or two, low equity prices and high interest rates are great for an accumulating investor.

It is a great time to be alive! An amazing time, by almost any measure.

However, us FIREees may be a bit more concerned than the people that will be working for a few more years. But so far the market gains have been great, so even a pull back wouldn't really be disastrous, or even unexpected. Though I'm sure Trump would get the blame for it.

Libertea

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2017, 08:23:39 PM »
Who's this Trump guy again?

No, but seriously, turn your TV off, go do something more productive with your time, and leave your investments alone.

FrugalSaver

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2017, 09:16:02 PM »
So many haters.  I'm proud of my president.  I'm putting the cash I have that is not currently in investments and I'm going all in.  Mostly into mutual funds that hold stocks that should perform well with all the increased infrastructure.

Agreed. And I don't get calling him unpredictable. He's completely following his 100 day plan to a T. I'd say he's the most predictable President we've had in the modern era. Most Presidents campaign on something and immediately abandon it when they take office.

As much as people want to believe he's stupid, stupid people don't become billionaires (no matter how much they inherit) nor do they become President.

I like that this site isn't typically political. I find it interesting that the vast numbers of people who hated Obama and what he stood for didn't seem to fire from the lip and call him an idiot and erratic etc while running up debt almost 3 times what bush did.

I wish the other side would show the same respect and not name call etc.

 it's fascinating and frankly disappointing to read on a site that's supposed to be open minded and largely financially focused.

beastykato

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2017, 10:15:00 PM »
I'm totally on board with what Trump has done thus far.

Especially, his foreign military policy and ceasing funding to the middle east.  Obama/Clinton are laughing stocks among military members I know who have served as U.S. Army Rangers and Marines. 

The money is being funneled in to ISIS and Al Qaeda supporting groups causing total destabilization in the area.  Ironically, it's Russia that is the one providing the greatest stability in that area by fighting the same groups Obama was funding.

If trillions of dollars wasted by Obama and squandered on these wars, and thousands of dead soldiers and civilians didn't crash your portfolio, I doubt Trumps $XX Billion dollar wall will hurt you much. 

221 million gifted to Palestine (just this last time).  100 million to Flint, Michigan to help dying poisoned Americans.  And it's been going on how long?  Just sayin'...Does that make sense to you?   And Trumps gonna have trouble finding funds to support U.S. infrastructure?  Not if this waste is cut out and directed where it needs to be. 

Or should we start fighting about which bathroom to use, or some other joke of a movement, by people who are obviously already free enough to do as they please regardless of their race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.

There are a lot of intelligent people on this board.  I'm a little disappointed by some of their viewpoints, but I don't discount some of their stances may be correct.   Respect should be shown to both sides. 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 10:20:14 PM by beastykato »

Stachless

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2017, 10:27:26 PM »
I am proud to be proud of our President....does that make me a minority?  Stock markets are at all-time highs, DJIA up 1,000 points in 2 months and smashing through psychological resistance at 20k.  Much of the rest of the world is panicking becaue they realize their Sugar Daddy USA is about to cut them off.  The most powerful economic force this planet has ever seen (American economy) is showing signs of revving up.  Give the man a chance!

WallStreetPhysician

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2017, 03:46:32 AM »
Don't try to time the market. Many people thought the stock market would crash after Trump's election, and we are instead at all-time highs.  Stay the course.

startingsmall

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2017, 08:22:48 AM »
At the moment, I'm resisting temptations to make changes to our retirement investments. It is SOOO tempting and seems like a guaranteed move, but I've had "timing the market never works" ingrained into me for so long that I just can't do it.

The only exception is my daughter's 529. I'll need that in 13 years and I don't know if things will be better yet by that point. Most of her 529 was previously split between VTSMX and VGTSX. I rolled that into 40% savings, 40% Vanguard's conservative-track target-date fund, 10% VTSMX, and 10% VGTSX. I feel more comfortable with that. Maybe the market will continue to climb for a bit and I'll kick myself for missing out, but at least I'm less likely to lose it all.

EricL

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2017, 09:04:31 AM »
No, timing the market doesn't generally work.

No, this isn't a political site. So there's a welcome dearth of insults. But at its heart it is an idealistic one based on responsibility and the greater good. Generally from a leftist POV though we've more than a few libertarians, republicans, and non cookie cutter liberals. 

My point was that we're almost due a major stock market crash. Not a Brexit panic hiccup but the real deal. Yeah, stocks are up now. But they've been climbing since 2009. A major contributor was the market deregulation by the same sorts of clowns Trump is inviting back in. 

Edit: and the typical mustachian response will be to buy more stocks while they're on sale. A generally winning strategy.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 09:06:50 AM by EricL »

Laserjet3051

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2017, 10:55:45 AM »
Not worried. Not changing a thing.

begood

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2017, 11:03:06 AM »
I'm worried about all of it - the market, the chatter about privatizing Medicare, raising retirement age for Social Security. All that. I'm worrying like it's my JOB.

We have a 65/35 asset allocation already, which is low on equities for our age (low 50s), given life expectancies. But I can't seem to bring myself to push it up any more. I'm fighting the instinct to put it all in tens and twenties in Mason jars and bury it in the backyard.


RosieTR

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Re: Portfolio adjustments because, Trump?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2017, 05:53:49 PM »
I heartily agree with the sentiment that the US is due for a recession. I expected this even before the election. As EricL said, the market has been climbing since 2009 (it did have a long way to go from bottom, but still, a long bull market). Whether we are yet past the mean to which things inevitably revert, maybe a bit but doesn't yet seem excessive. I agree that if we have some sort of normalcy, maybe a year or two of business-deregulation euphoria before it crashes. In this scenario, the main issue is how the inevitable crisis is handled. When the market was crashing in 2008, unbeknownst to the public, the high-level financial folks in government were *losing their shit*. But they didn't get on TV or Twitter and scream that, they had meetings behind closed doors and didn't sleep much. Many years later when things had stabilized, they did interviews and wrote memoirs. Like high-functioning, normal people with a very heavy responsibility. Some of these people were GWB people, some were Obama people. In either case, the person who was publicly losing his shit was Kramer and that ilk, not high-level govt officials and certainly not the President. Few examples are more stark than FDR calming everyone down for nearly a decade. Presidents do not control the market; they can't. But they can help manage the fallout from market drops, using a variety of tools including their composure. So the problem with a market crash going forward, is that the person who can most help calm nerves is the least likely to do so. So I find that extremely worrying. Business likes predictability and dislikes unpredictability, so a lot of the latter is likely to cause problems, regardless of tax cuts and the like.

As for another possible scenario that I find more personally worrying-what would happen if there is a Black Swan-type event? The Sept 11 attacks triggered a recession that was probably on the way anyway. In that case, again, there were people at the top who at least had the composure and intelligence to steer the country through. If a terrorist attack happened now, or worse, Trump provokes some sort of more major war than the simmering Afghanistan misadventure, then I'm not hopeful about the market (or the country). My opinion of Trump is such that I would not be surprised at all if either of these scenarios happen.

I like the idea some have mentioned of allocating a higher percentage into internationals. I had already reduced my equity exposure to some degree after the election, in part due to the expectation of a coming recession and in part because I wanted to be a little more conservative as we approach FI. Even without that, if all you think about is Warren Buffett's "fearful when others are greedy" quote, pulling back a little on equities may be a good thing.