The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: arebelspy on May 09, 2012, 11:49:29 AM
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Now that we have the demographics for the average Mustachian:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/who-are-you-demographic-poll/msg3965/#msg3965
I'm curious about that average Mustachian's net worth. I know we have a huge range from people just starting their FI journey (with loads of debt) to others who have made a lot of progress (or may even already be FI!)
Anonymous poll, so no shame, no bragging, just curiosity. Feel free to comment if you want (and bump the thread), but you don't have to feel any obligation to post, but I'm hoping lots are willing to at least anonymously vote!
For purposes of this poll, let's set the definition of net worth* as:
Any assets you own worth over $500
Minus any liabilities you have.
That would include assets such as house, car, etc. The $500 limit is so you can skip small items like clothes. Use your judgement.
Liabilities would include anything you owe.
Here's some things to get you thinking about your Net Worth, if you don't have it on hand (which you should!):
Potential Assets: Cash, Stocks, Bonds, Annuities, Retirement, Home, Other Real Estate, Cars, Personal Property, Other
Potential Liabilities: Home Mortgage(s), Other Mortgage(s), Student Loans, Credit Card, Car Loans, Other
*What exactly net worth is depends on definitions. While the easy definition is "All assets minus all liabilities," some don't count their primary residence, for example (being that it is a place to live). I personally don't count any vehicles in my net worth. I will for this poll though, for uniformity's sake.
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I'm irrationally excited to be able to pick the category I did. If you had done this a month ago (or excluded vehicles) then I'd be in the next category down.
What about the potential liability of taxes on tax-deferred accounts?
For the purposes of the poll I'm ignoring them, but for my own spreadsheet and projections I scale my 401k down by the % I expect will be owed in taxes.
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I'm irrationally excited to be able to pick the category I did. If you had done this a month ago (or excluded vehicles) then I'd be in the next category down.
Hah! Hope others feel this way, as we're all (hopefully) moving in the right direction! :D
What about the potential liability of taxes on tax-deferred accounts?
For the purposes of the poll I'm ignoring them, but for my own spreadsheet and projections I scale my 401k down by the % I expect will be owed in taxes.
Oh, good question. Let's ignore that and just put gross amount in those accounts.
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I just realized that if I subtract the $200K I owe on my house, I am pretty far in the hole... damn.
I was just thinking of the cash I could pull out in a weeks notice. :( (stocks, 401K, checking/savings etc)
On the upside, that also means that I could put a severe dent in my mortgage - let's ignore the issue of whether it's better to have a large mortgage or not - but I won't put a dime extra in the house until it at least breaks even with what I could sell it for. No need to give the bank money for nothing. :)
Of course, throwing in small 5-digit amount would rid me of the PMI, but at $80/month... keeping the 80/month keeps me more liquid.
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I just realized that if I subtract the $200K I owe on my house, I am pretty far in the hole... damn.
Make sure you add the value of the home. A mortgage should only be a negative on your net worth for the amount it's underwater.
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I wonder how many people looked at 'less than -100k' and thought 'that's me! I'm at -66k'
Yeah, it's been awhile since I had to deal with greater than, less than, and absolutes :P
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Yeah, are we including our primary homes here? In my monthly net worth spreadsheet I don't include it .. though the mortgage is in there of course.
I guess I don't include it because I don't want to think about how much I could sell my house for at any given moment and how much it would cost to sell it, etc. Mint uses Zillow for an estimate, so if I'm tired of seeing a negative number (rapidly increasing) in my spreadsheet I take a look at Mint's estimate ;)
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Yeah, are we including our primary homes here? In my monthly net worth spreadsheet I don't include it .. though the mortgage is in there of course.
I guess I don't include it because I don't want to think about how much I could sell my house for at any given moment and how much it would cost to sell it, etc. Mint uses Zillow for an estimate, so if I'm tired of seeing a negative number (rapidly increasing) in my spreadsheet I take a look at Mint's estimate ;)
Yes, you should include it for this poll.
I would always include it anyways, especially if you're using the mortgage counting against you.
If you don't want to normally, I understand why, but please do for this so we're all on the same page/definition. :)
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somewhere around -60k, with all but $4k of the negative coming from student loans. Mint says if I count my car, I just cracked the -60 barrier and am up to -58. Last May, we were at -76, so I'm really okay with that :).
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My house just breaks even, I owe what I think I could sell it for quickly. I've got it listed at a higher number, we aren't desperate to sell yet, but I'll probably drop it down to what I owe on it next spring in the hope it will get more interest.
Mint is great for keeping track of net worth, especially if your situation is complex. Along with using a value for the house that would be a "quick sell", I also use trade in value for the cars. "Net worth" has meaning, you can have a number that you keep track of that doesn't include your house, but that wouldn't be your net worth, that would be your net worth minus your house.
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I'm irrationally excited to be able to pick the category I did. If you had done this a month ago (or excluded vehicles) then I'd be in the next category down.
I wish I could feel that excitement. I think in about another year we should be able to move up.
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I was expecting most mustachians in the +250K category. It's quite comforting that there are others with negative or zero net worth. In my case, an underwater mortgage and a few health bills put me in the negative.
I feel that the road to FI ahead of me is extraordinary long, and I can't help to get discouraged sometimes. My saving efforts seem to have very little impact on my net worth. But I keep remembering the MMM post about the snowball that grows and inevitably gets bigger and rolls faster. That keeps me motivated!
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Ok, cool. With the house (as I just voted) I'm in the 100-250k category. Not counting it, I'm at -75k.
I can't wait until I have enough assets to fully "pay off" the house. I won't, of course, because most of those assets are going to be in retirement funds, but it will be nice to have a positive net worth without counting my home (gotta live somewhere!). At our current rate that crossover should happen around Q4 of 2013. But who knows what will happen in the meanwhile!
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I was expecting most mustachians in the +250K category. It's quite comforting that there are others with negative or zero net worth. In my case, an underwater mortgage and a few health bills put me in the negative.
I feel that the road to FI ahead of me is extraordinary long, and I can't help to get discouraged sometimes. My saving efforts seem to have very little impact on my net worth. But I keep remembering the MMM post about the snowball that grows and inevitably gets bigger and rolls faster. That keeps me motivated!
I'm glad you are here. Many of the extremely wealthy have long miserable roads ahead of them, I'm grateful the satisfaction and enjoyment of life is not tied to net worth!
I don't think mustachian living is about monetary values, it's about lifestyle values. I think one of the great things about the mustachian lifestyle is how it tears down barriers between people of various net worths, wealth is no longer so greatly evidenced by a given standard of living.
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Mint is great for keeping track of net worth, especially if your situation is complex.
I have a few things Mint won't connect to, so I can't use it for net worth.
I much prefer NetWorthIQ: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/mustachian-web-tools-networthiq/
I was expecting most mustachians in the +250K category.
That's part of why I started this thread. We're all moving along towards FI, hopefully, but at different places. It is encouraging to see that other Mustachians have the same struggles and have someone to connect to. :)
Also +1 to Jame's post.
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I was surprised to see no category greater than 250k. But it's probably good thing - gives an indication of where people are at without making the highest category seem unobtainable.
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off the top of my head something like +140k including the value of the house based on what we expect to sell it for hopefully soon. ignore the house and remaining mortgage it's something like +30 or 40k. I haven't been tracking specifically as it hasn't overly mattered to me. All that has mattered is my 1 remaining debt of $206,539.69 as of last friday which is the mortgage on the house.
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Like others above, I was seriously expecting to be the only one who was in heavily negative territory. My current plan is to work every hour the Lord sends, to pay down the mortgages until they at least match the value of the houses in question.
A few years yet until I get to that point...
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Next week we will be completely debt free when our house in NJ is "closed". We're renting here in CO for now.
I counted our net worth as savings + retirement savings + current value of vehicles + high value items in our home that could be sold - any debt(none!).
I was also surprised and happy with the category I could vote us into. :D
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I don't think mustachian living is about monetary values, it's about lifestyle values. I think one of the great things about the mustachian lifestyle is how it tears down barriers between people of various net worths, wealth is no longer so greatly evidenced by a given standard of living.
You are so right, James. I hadn't see it that way before!
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I was expecting most mustachians in the +250K category.
Yeah, me too, sort of, because that's the category MMM is in, that's the perspective he writes from, and thus until I started reading the forum/comments, I didn't expect that people in other categories wouldn't find his writing especially interesting or relateable. *I* find his writing interesting because I come from a similar background as MMM (high-earning computer engineer, who briefly lived a slightly anti-Mustachian lifestyle but never built up debt), and the "RICH early-retiree" concept filled a blogospheric niche that wasn't filled for me by other financial blogs that focused more on pulling yourself out of debt or cutting your costs by making your own soap.
But then I realized that what truly makes MMM interesting is not that he's just like me, but that he's a future version of who I'd like to be, so it's a preview into the lifestyle I expect to be leading in something like 5 years time. And if I find him inspirational for a 5-year timeframe, why wouldn't someone feel the same with a 10-year or 20-year timeframe? And he's probably even more useful for someone with a longer timeframe; I'm just using him to give me a warm fuzzy feeling that my existing plan is actually doable, whereas someone with a longer timeframe can actually use him to learn to *make* such a plan and execute it.
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I just bumped over 100k last month, but once I buy a house that will eliminate most of my cash.
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I was also SO excited to pick my category since I just crossed over into above 0 territory two months ago!!!!
I started at around -37,000 in 2009 (the year I began tracking net worth). All from student loans (barf).
None of the loans are paid off yet but it's very encouraging to cross this milestone.
And it'll just keep growing from here!!!
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I'm a 21 year old student with about $10k in savings. Yeah! Although $14,000 in what you'd call student debt (0% government kinda loan)(Australia).
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But then I realized that what truly makes MMM interesting is not that he's just like me, but that he's a future version of who I'd like to be, so it's a preview into the lifestyle I expect to be leading in something like 5 years time.
+1. I find that true for this site as a whole -- people see themselves as being at different stages along a journey, rather than belonging to different static subgroups. It's a lot easier to be a "community" that way. And once you adopt that mindset, it's a lot easier to learn from other people rather than evaluate what/who they are.
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OK I clicked the wrong one, I thought the first option meant "less than $100,000" not that you were in the red by $100000!!
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With or without real estate, I'm grateful to be at the top of this scale. But here's what really sucks: It's not nearly enough to support an early retirement in my corner of the world. It's easy to say, sell and move somewhere cheaper, but I love my community. I'm an active volunteer and have a rich (and mustachian) social life.
In 2002, I went to a financial planner for the first time. Since then, I have been determined to get my financial house built. My net worth (without real estate, because you have to live somewhere) has tripled in ten years. I don't budget to the bone, but I consider every purchase and expenditure carefully. I tally my net worth monthly. While I monitor spending on a micro level, I have not looked at things in macro much. I was pleasantly surprised at my results when I looked back over two, then five, then ten years. So 250k+ is not enough? No problem. I know if I just keep on keeping on, I will surely get there. Having coaches like ERE and MMM, plus TSD and GRS (especially in their earlier forms) along with a few other favorites really keeps me motivated. Lately, these forums have been very helpful. Glad they exist.
Update 10/4/2013: Holy shit! I had forgotten about this survey. I can't believe how much has changed in such a short time. I fell in love, got married (For the first time! At age 50+!!) and RETIRED! We are now at the highest level on the (revised) scale.
DH plans to retire in 9 years, which is not all that early, but he loves his job and his lifestyle choices espouse the rest of the MMM spectrum. My point in posting this update is to reiterate the point about keeping on and eventually getting to the goal. I got there all of a sudden, but it would not have happend if either of us were unable to manage our wants. Once we combined forces, we smashed through the ceiling and have acheived FI. After years of steady steps, we got there together. It works, it really works!
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This needs an age consideration.
How about a poll that is
net worth/(age-22)...this indicates a normalized age from the average college graduation age to present.
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This needs an age consideration.
No, it's a poll designed to answer one question: what is the net worth of the average Mustachian. Age is irrelevant.
If we added an age consideration, we'd probably also want a consideration based on family size, location, income level, maybe education level, etc. etc. etc. We could slice and dice it forever. This is asking a simpler question than that. Namely... regardless of your (age/circumstance/shoe size): what is your net worth?
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I just bumped over 100k last month, but once I buy a house that will eliminate most of my cash.
Now up to over 122,000. Once I get my rental deposit back (that place was sparkling when I left it), that will be a few grand larger.
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I just bumped over 100k last month, but once I buy a house that will eliminate most of my cash.
Now up to over 122,000. Once I get my rental deposit back (that place was sparkling when I left it), that will be a few grand larger.
22k gain in a month (or 22% gain in a month) is an enviable gain.
Make sure you record it in your journal. Also check out NetWorthIQ (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/mustachian-web-tools-networthiq/)
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I'm not convinced that everyone is calculating net worth, given some of the comments. Whether you have cash, a retirement fund or equity in a house makes no difference to net worth in my calc.
I'm surprised there are not more people in the highest category too - because you can reach that category and still have some way to go before being able to retire. $250k at a 4% drawdown rate is only $10k per annum, from which you've got to cover your housing costs. If you have a paid off house, then you've got to add that to your net worth.
A sizeable finance website in the UK asked the same question, and 23% of respondents had net worth > £250k (about $375k). Results here if you are interested - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/poll/16-01-2012/how-much-are-you-worth
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I'm not convinced that everyone is calculating net worth, given some of the comments. Whether you have cash, a retirement fund or equity in a house makes no difference to net worth in my calc.
I'm surprised there are not more people in the highest category too - because you can reach that category and still have some way to go before being able to retire. $250k at a 4% drawdown rate is only $10k per annum, from which you've got to cover your housing costs. If you have a paid off house, then you've got to add that to your net worth.
A sizeable finance website in the UK asked the same question, and 23% of respondents had net worth > £250k (about $375k). Results here if you are interested - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/poll/16-01-2012/how-much-are-you-worth
There are 38% in the highest category - i.e. almost 2 in 5. That seems reasonable.
And doesn't that poll confirm the results? Doesn't their 23% greater than 375k align almost perfectly with our 38% greater than 250k?
And yes, it's hard to tell if everyone 100% gets the concept with comments like this:
I just bumped over 100k last month, but once I buy a house that will eliminate most of my cash.
(Whereby cash is irrelevant as it's used in a down payment, your net worth will go down slightly due to closing costs.) However, if one followed the instructions of the poll, it's fine. And likely every poll has some confused people answering incorrectly. I don't think this has that issue more than any other poll.
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And doesn't that poll confirm the results? Doesn't their 23% greater than 375k align almost perfectly with our 38% greater than 250k?
Yep - that's why I thought it might be a bigger proportion in mustachian land. That website is large enough to attract the general population, rather than being skewed towards people aiming for financial independence.
Perhaps there's a common theme of "being interested in saving money" :)
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I just think it is awesome that only 13.5% are in debt/negative net worth.
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And yes, it's hard to tell if everyone 100% gets the concept with comments like this:
I just bumped over 100k last month, but once I buy a house that will eliminate most of my cash.
I'm not really sure how buying a house works, so I guess you're right. After thinking about it for more than a second, it makes sense that you'd be "out" the cash amount, but you now "have" the equivalent value in a house, I just haven't thought about it.
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I'm not really sure how buying a house works, so I guess you're right. After thinking about it for more than a second, it makes sense that you'd be "out" the cash amount, but you now "have" the equivalent value in a house, I just haven't thought about it.
Exactly. On your personal "balance sheet" your cash goes down, home equity goes up. It's a wash, minus closing costs. Net worth remains the same.
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Bump bump bump. It's been a month with a ton of new members, so I'd love to see some more responses on this out of curiosity.
Looks like the largest demographic is those well on their way, followed by people with a small, positive net worth.
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Interesting (and encouraging) that this poll closed with only about 14% in debt!
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I think you need to add some higher ranges, for those of us that have been at this a long time (and the Facebook millionaires, of course). Lots of over 40's read this blog.
Add:
$250-$500,000
$500-$750,000
$750-$1,000,000
$1,000-$2,000,000
Over $2M
My guess is you are going to be very surprised at the results.
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Agree with Another Reader.
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There may be more now, I agree, but initially it was more skewed younger (especially due to the ERE crowd coming over). Though I guess age is one thing not included in the demographics poll linked in the OP.
I also felt over those limits tend lead to less truthful answers, though that may not be the case here on the MMM forums, and at some point it gets in the way and becomes bragging. (Why would one feel a need to have a separate 2MM category, and not be happy checking a 1MM+ category?) In any event, the poll results ended fairly balanced, and too many categories tend to flatten results.
I do agree on a category of, say, 250-50, and then 750+ (or maybe just an FI one). I don't see much of a point on over that. What's the difference between 1.5MM and 2MM? MMM himself has 750-800ish (plus the paid off house), and it's plenty for him.
Nevertheless, you're right that a higher end category could be added next time the poll is done, maybe in a year or two.
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Depending on where you live, $400,000 may only buy you a one or two bedroom condo. In my Bay Area tract neighborhood, houses now start in the $800's. I would not be FI with a net worth of $700-$800,000, and neither would most folks in the high housing cost areas of the country. $800,000 plus a paid off 2,600 sf house in Longmont probably totals over $1,200,000, making MMM a member of the high net worth group.
It's not about bragging and most folks here seem pretty honest about their finances. Most higher net worth individuals reading this blog got to be higher net worth by applying a high savings rate and consistent, disciplined investing over many years. You are probably going to find a lot of your 40 year old plus readers have net worths above $1MM. It's easily done even for a single person, as long as you maintain the high savings rate and invest wisely. With your real estate investing goals, YOU will be joining the $1MM club in the not too distant future. These folks are proof that the principles underlying the MMM approach really do work.
This is my 100th post, making my facial hair suddenly quite a bit longer. Mustaches are generally considered unattractive on ladies, so there better be something positive about this change!
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Yes, I agree with all of that, with the exception of (perhaps) the beginning of that last sentence.
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Yup, I'm about -50,000, due to student loans. :( I was looking to get out of this hole, and that is when I found the MMM. Now I just need a new job to go with my badassity...
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Any chance we can get an updated or on-going version of this net worth thread? :) Because this one is closed no one else can vote. Thanks for considering the idea.
Cheers!
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I've unlocked it.
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Excellent! Thanks arebelspy. Looking forward to learning more about our wonderful MMM community. Oh and I concur with Another Reader we should add more categories over the 250k mark.
$250-$500,000
$500-$750,000
$750-$1,000,000
$1,000-$2,000,000
Over $2M
The results will be quite interesting.
Cheers!
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I forgot about this thread. I just moved up! Its not enough yet but every step counts!
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Excellent! Thanks arebelspy. Looking forward to learning more about our wonderful MMM community. Oh and I concur with Another Reader we should add more categories over the 250k mark.
$250-$500,000
$500-$750,000
$750-$1,000,000
$1,000-$2,000,000
Over $2M
The results will be quite interesting.
Cheers!
Why don't you just make a new poll? People have saved a lot over the last year, as evidenced by the 2012 networth increase thread.
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This needs an age consideration.
No, it's a poll designed to answer one question: what is the net worth of the average Mustachian. Age is irrelevant.
If we added an age consideration, we'd probably also want a consideration based on family size, location, income level, maybe education level, etc. etc. etc. We could slice and dice it forever. This is asking a simpler question than that. Namely... regardless of your (age/circumstance/shoe size): what is your net worth?
Since you did say "your" net worth and I'm married - I took the pool and divided by two. :)
I'd also vote for a new poll with expanded options and some clarity (should I have divided by two? Did you mean household net worth?)
:D
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I've been tracking it on a spreadsheet.
The stock market recovery helps, my assets are worth about 73% of what I paid for them :-P before the meltdown. I have built up equity in my rental portfolio to almost offset that though.
I can't retire early. But do have enough assets that if I never touch them, and just live on my earned wages ... the future returrns plus Social Security would be a stable living. Enough for a nice apartment, a car, normal goods.
I just can't bring myself to spend all that I earn, though. :-} So I'll probably have more than enough for a basic living when I retire.
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I can't retire early.
That seems like an odd statement for this site, of all places.
You're 44, have 20 years before you hit the "normal" retirement age. You don't think you can early retire sometime in the next 20 years?
20 years should be enough time to go from 0 to retirement, since it sounds like you have assets, you should be able to do it.
Soooo... What's stopping you?
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I mainly want to build a up a cash reserve, to self finance my own business instead of borrow more money. And to me the paper assets almost don't exist, since they aren't worth what I paid.
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That's fine, and that's a great goal. I just don't see how becoming FI isn't possible, or retiring early if you decide you want to do that instead of still working on the business at 58, or whatever.
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I should have said "I won't retire immediately". :-) Yes, anyone on this site plans to retire "ahead of schedule". My parents did at 60, and 62. I want to be faster!
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I reckon I'm pretty much hovering around the £0 mark. Needs alot of work.
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Almost checked the wrong box because I didn't even expect less than -100,000 to be an option. I'm sitting near $45,000 and adding about $2,000/month. Just paid the last of my student loans, except the 1.68 I forgot about in interest between submitting a payment and the actual pay date. I'm still at least 10 years from retirement though, and I think that to be a stretch estimate.
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Over $250K because I own a paid off house in SoCal valued over $300K. Also have some savings (IRA's, 457K) and retired at 42 with a small government pension (combo military and state).
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I too am surprised and a little relieved to see I'm not the only one so far in the hole (~$76k for the both of us together) the good news is that we're moving up a a decent clip considering our earnings.
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I used a completely PFA number for our house value of $150K, but usually I don't include that in our calculations. the house could be worth anywhere from $100K to $250K, I really don't know. The last time it was sold was 1970 and there isn't really anything comparable. We live in the borough on an acre, almost all of the other houses in the borough are on 1/10th that much land.
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Ah crap, I read too fast and clicked the first option thinking it was "less than $100,000", not "less than -$100,000". My net worth is in the 0-$100,000 category. Any way to fix it?
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Yes, I edited the poll so users can change their votes.
I had initially turned this off, as I wanted a snapshot in time -- eventually we'll all be moving up to the highest level of this, so it'd be useless (I myself moved up a level since posting this) ;)
I went ahead and added some higher categories as well, which suddenly makes the poll inaccurate (all of the people who voted 250k+ are now automatically categorized in the 250-500k range), but since it doesn't matter for anything, who cares? And they have the ability to edit their vote now, so they can fix it (if they bother to come back and read this)!
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32 married
net worth is $152,000.
yearly change is usually about $35,000, This last year it was a bit more and I'd like to see that continue to accelerate. Wouldn't we all :)
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I'm 25 as of two months ago and have about $60k between my retirement accounts and cash.
I started college with about $15k in savings, mainly from working as a soccer referee as a kid then as a dishwasher during high school. That was quickly blown through by tuition bills, and I left college with about $27k in student loans plus $3k or $4k I owed to my mom that she fronted for security deposits and the like. Fortunately, I also left college with a well-regarded computer engineering degree during a booming job market, so by living modestly, I first plowed through those loans and now am piling up cash. My first job was in San Diego, where I begrudgingly bought a car; I've since moved to NYC, where there's a deeper tech job market and everything I need is available within walking distance, with far more than any human could conceivably need within biking distance. The last of my student loans were thus paid off with the proceeds from selling my car. The housing market here is ridiculous, but as a young person when merely needs a room of my own, easy carfree living and a good job market more than make up for that.
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I know how to calculate net worth now, so I've come a long way too.
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Amidst so many just starting to build up their "staches" and trying to slay their debts (as a Canadian I can't believe the burdens American students face) I admit to feeling a bit sheepish admitting that my NW is in excess of a million. But knowing the sacfrices and the back breaking hard work that has gone into it (and like MMM, a good portion of luck) I certainly don't feel guilty about it. Is it even possible to feel sheepish but not guilty about something? Weird.
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Just changed my vote to a higher level. Man does that feel good.
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Just changed my vote to a higher level. Man does that feel good.
(http://stuphblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/way-to-go-39619343413.gif)
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Given what I have been reading here, I still think you need to add $1M to $2M, $2M to $5M, and over $5M. IIRC, someone is going for the $5M mark or is already there. I think you would be surprised at the results. There are a lot of retired and not yet retired multi-millonaires that read this forum and got to where they are by practicing frugality and wise investing.
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Given what I have been reading here, I still think you need to add $1M to $2M, $2M to $5M, and over $5M. IIRC, someone is going for the $5M mark or is already there. I think you would be surprised at the results. There are a lot of retired and not yet retired multi-millonaires that read this forum and got to where they are by practicing frugality and wise investing.
Maybe. Is there much of a point?
And while there may be some like that here (I know for certain there are a few, and even some where we could add in an 8-figure mark.. But what's the point past a certain limit?), the thread "anyone going to have less than 1MM to retire?" inclines me to think most here will have less than 1MM when FIRE (and since most aren't FIRE yet, obviously have less now).
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There are lots of people on this forum, especially in the 40+ age category with kids, aiming for $3M or more. Many folks do not think $1M is enough, especially if they don't want to risk a 4 percent withdrawal rate or they live in a pricey area. Setting an arbitrary $1M as "enough" for this forum does not reflect the diversity of the people that read and post here. Understanding where folks are coming from helps in reading and thinking about everyone else's philosophy and reasoning.
I'm one of the people that lives in a pricey area, does not believe a 4 percent SWR is acceptable (I believe in relying on interest, dividends and net rental income with no decumulation), and has a sizable and diversified net worth built over time to make that happen. I have been retired by any nit picking definition for six years. Maybe I am not the "norm" here, but I think there are a lot of us and I'm curious about how many there are. Frugality and conscious consumption are not restricted to 20 year-olds looking for ER at 30. These philosophies and habits are how most folks in my position got to where we are.
So, just add the categories, and let's see who is here. Otherwise I may have to start the "anyone going to have more than $3M before they can retire" thread.
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So, just add the categories, and let's see who is here. Otherwise I may have to start the "anyone going to have more than $3M before they can retire" thread.
Umm, have you looked at the poll results? Out of 432 folks who have voted so far, only 9 have voted $1M+. Separating that out any further probably isn't going to reveal a whole lot. But who knows, maybe the thread will gather some good replies.
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Out of 432 folks who have voted so far, only 9 have voted $1M+.
Damn 2%ers. :)
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There are lots of people on this forum, especially in the 40+ age category with kids, aiming for $3M or more. Many folks do not think $1M is enough, especially if they don't want to risk a 4 percent withdrawal rate or they live in a pricey area. Setting an arbitrary $1M as "enough" for this forum does not reflect the diversity of the people that read and post here. Understanding where folks are coming from helps in reading and thinking about everyone else's philosophy and reasoning.
I'm one of the people that lives in a pricey area, does not believe a 4 percent SWR is acceptable (I believe in relying on interest, dividends and net rental income with no decumulation), and has a sizable and diversified net worth built over time to make that happen. I have been retired by any nit picking definition for six years. Maybe I am not the "norm" here, but I think there are a lot of us and I'm curious about how many there are. Frugality and conscious consumption are not restricted to 20 year-olds looking for ER at 30. These philosophies and habits are how most folks in my position got to where we are.
So, just add the categories, and let's see who is here. Otherwise I may have to start the "anyone going to have more than $3M before they can retire" thread.
Very good points. As I mentioned in another thread, there are implicit assumptions in the <1M target that won't always come true. I think the 3MM+ thread would be an interesting one, I'd be curious to hear that crowd's reasoning.
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Do we already have a "What's your FI number" thread?
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I haven't seen one.
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I'm not sure if I'm meant to still reply to this thread as it's so old?
I voted between $500,000 and $1,000,000, it sounds like much more money in dollars, maybe I should move to the US!
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Interesting data here, as well as looking through prior posts it's clear the demographics have shifted.
Only about one year ago there were the '2%-er's' who were >$1M, now there are over 6% in that group.
I lived all my life in high-cost areas, and FWIW don't plan to get to FIRE for while yet even though I'm in the >$1M group. Hard to imagine in many moderate cost areas of the country, I'm sure, but can you imagine paying $700/mo in property taxes?
My SO asked me a few weeks ago a 'what if' question, pay for a $300K house in cash in a moderate-cost area (similar size and amenities to our current place at 3x the value) and then live differently. It's certainly an option to FIRE should I choose to....
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Interesting data here, as well as looking through prior posts it's clear the demographics have shifted.
Only about one year ago there were the '2%-er's' who were >$1M, now there are over 6% in that group.
It is clear at least the categories have changed. The shift is net worth north of the seven figure mark is perhaps mainly due to the parsing out of the former highest group.
That said, I do hope to move up a category myself next year and will be happy to change my vote so it does happen. :)
Once the categories are finalized, it might be interesting to see 3/6/12 month snapshots or something. Man I love the polls.
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I wouldn't mind some clarification on "personal" net worth for the married folks.
Is the intent to use the total of marital assets, or half of marital assets?
I chose the latter, but would rather do the poll as intended if I guessed wrong.
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I actually just voted for the first time. I'm still working on things, as I have a lot of student loans. My net worth is still only around $45K because of that. However, each month I'm excited as that number grows (both up because of saving and down because of paying things off). I have a car loan (it was before I found MMM) and that will be paid off fairly soon. Just got a bike so that car should last longer than it would have before.
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The poll should be one or the other; either a snapshot in time, and voting is closed, or make it a sticky and tell people to come change their vote as they move up (or down) on the scale so that it's always current.
I voted when the poll was opened and have since moved up a tier, but didn't change my vote at the advice of Arebelspy.
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There are lots of people on this forum, especially in the 40+ age category with kids, aiming for $3M or more. Many folks do not think $1M is enough, especially if they don't want to risk a 4 percent withdrawal rate or they live in a pricey area. Setting an arbitrary $1M as "enough" for this forum does not reflect the diversity of the people that read and post here. Understanding where folks are coming from helps in reading and thinking about everyone else's philosophy and reasoning.
I'm one of the people that lives in a pricey area, does not believe a 4 percent SWR is acceptable (I believe in relying on interest, dividends and net rental income with no decumulation), and has a sizable and diversified net worth built over time to make that happen. I have been retired by any nit picking definition for six years. Maybe I am not the "norm" here, but I think there are a lot of us and I'm curious about how many there are. Frugality and conscious consumption are not restricted to 20 year-olds looking for ER at 30. These philosophies and habits are how most folks in my position got to where we are.
So, just add the categories, and let's see who is here. Otherwise I may have to start the "anyone going to have more than $3M before they can retire" thread.
I agree totally with you. I would start one but not sure how to lay it out. But with 4 kids and living in a pricey area( though when 2 are out we are out of here) I would like to hear and see the thoughts of people in the same situation.
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The poll should be one or the other; either a snapshot in time, and voting is closed, or make it a sticky and tell people to come change their vote as they move up (or down) on the scale so that it's always current.
I voted when the poll was opened and have since moved up a tier, but didn't change my vote at the advice of Arebelspy.
Yes, I edited the poll so users can change their votes.
I had initially turned this off, as I wanted a snapshot in time -- eventually we'll all be moving up to the highest level of this, so it'd be useless (I myself moved up a level since posting this) ;)
I took it to mean he initially wanted a snapshot but now after the poll edit, the "video" is fine. Was there other advice saying to keep it the same or did you just have a different perception?
And for "all moving up to the highest level", doesn't that imply a closed group of people when in reality everyday someone new starts at or near the beginning of the road (I guess some may be born into inherited money or start adult life with plenty of net worth established but not everyone), thus nearly guaranteeing people at different levels of net worth? I mean, sure an entire cohort may move up to the highest level given enough time but as far as snapshot, that will never be the case IMO.
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The poll should be one or the other; either a snapshot in time, and voting is closed, or make it a sticky and tell people to come change their vote as they move up (or down) on the scale so that it's always current.
I voted when the poll was opened and have since moved up a tier, but didn't change my vote at the advice of Arebelspy.
Yes, I edited the poll so users can change their votes.
I had initially turned this off, as I wanted a snapshot in time -- eventually we'll all be moving up to the highest level of this, so it'd be useless (I myself moved up a level since posting this) ;)
I took it to mean he initially wanted a snapshot but now after the poll edit, the "video" is fine. Was there other advice saying to keep it the same or did you just have a different perception?
And for "all moving up to the highest level", doesn't that imply a closed group of people when in reality everyday someone new starts at or near the beginning of the road (I guess some may be born into inherited money or start adult life with plenty of net worth established but not everyone), thus nearly guaranteeing people at different levels of net worth? I mean, sure an entire cohort may move up to the highest level given enough time but as far as snapshot, that will never be the case IMO.
Sorry, I missed that post. However, the advice I received was after that post (in another thread), so Arebelspy is being inconsistent. Then again, he isn't the OP, so maybe it doesn't matter what he says ;-)
Simonsez, I agree with you that we should never get to the point where everyone is at the highest tier.
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A significant poll component to consider should be age. At 49, and tallying everything up in terms of assets/liabilities im probably under +$750k. The thing is... comparing this 'result' to others isn't necessarily comparing apples to apples as when I was in my 20's/30's id certainly have been on one of the lower net worth categories. (I should have looked at the posting 'polling feature' prior to typing this I suppose). Probably safe to assume that respondents in the 'more net-worth positive' categories are all 'older'.
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Bumped up a category, still using half of our (married) net worth for the poll.
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First time seeing and voting in the poll. Just crossed over the $500K net worth line... so that category is a squeaker...
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I also think it is relevant how close to traditional retirement age one is. A 30 year old with $250k saved up is probably in a better position than a 50 year old with $250k.
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I also think it is relevant how close to traditional retirement age one is. A 30 year old with $250k saved up is probably in a better position than a 50 year old with $250k.
On paper but probably not in knowledge. Time will tell if the 30 year old will continue to make the right decisions as hopefully by 50, the 50 year has learned a bit about life and can get down in the trenches. Early 30's is a time many fail because they think they have it all figured out. But , i agee in theory with you!
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I also think it is relevant how close to traditional retirement age one is. A 30 year old with $250k saved up is probably in a better position than a 50 year old with $250k.
On paper but probably not in knowledge. Time will tell if the 30 year old will continue to make the right decisions as hopefully by 50, the 50 year has learned a bit about life and can get down in the trenches. Early 30's is a time many fail because they think they have it all figured out. But , i agee in theory with you!
You are correct. My initial statement assumed that by amassing $250k by age 30 that the 30 year old was able to do so by making good choices and being committed to a Mustachian lifestyle. This isn't a valid assumption as many could have amassed that amount through luck, inheritance or some other combination of situations other than being committed to those advocated by MMM. And yes, I know the old line about what happens when one assumes anything. :-)
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Early 30's is a time many fail because they think they have it all figured out.
How do they fail?
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Early 30's is a time many fail because they think they have it all figured out.
How do they fail?
Not all....and more of an observation of my own experience. I found that many people in there 30's who really started making the bucks took more risks and instead of realizing what got them to be in the position they were in. I know because i was one of them. And I knew many of them. Having said that there are those who come out if it fine as well as I too did but I have many friends that still havent survived from there success of there early 30's. Thats how they failed. Perhaps times have changed but I doubt it.
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Upgraded my vote :)
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Early 30's is a time many fail because they think they have it all figured out.
How do they fail?
Not all....and more of an observation of my own experience. I found that many people in there 30's who really started making the bucks took more risks and instead of realizing what got them to be in the position they were in. I know because i was one of them. And I knew many of them. Having said that there are those who come out if it fine as well as I too did but I have many friends that still havent survived from there success of there early 30's. Thats how they failed. Perhaps times have changed but I doubt it.
Can you give some concrete examples? I'm not sure what you're talking about.
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We met with a financial advisor last fall and I thought he was buttering us up when he told us our balance sheet was among the best he'd ever seen for our age.
We're pretty lucky on several accounts especially finding a spouse with almost identical values. And I'm grateful for my grandparents who lived during The Great Depression. The depressing part is that I don't think any of our close friends will ever be able to consider ER or even a comfortable retirement so it's somewhat embarrassing that we're on the high end here.
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Early 30's is a time many fail because they think they have it all figured out.
How do they fail?
Not all....and more of an observation of my own experience. I found that many people in there 30's who really started making the bucks took more risks and instead of realizing what got them to be in the position they were in. I know because i was one of them. And I knew many of them. Having said that there are those who come out if it fine as well as I too did but I have many friends that still havent survived from there success of there early 30's. Thats how they failed. Perhaps times have changed but I doubt it.
Can you give some concrete examples? I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Concrete? if your looking for some statistical data no I dont have that. I clearly said it was my own observation and experience! Perhaps it was just a small enclave in society in which I lived. I was just making the point that in the 30's I had notice that alot of people that I new who started to really be rolling in life came to the conclusion that the money tree would always be there and felt pretty comfortable to spend. Some never were able to recover and some obviously did. But I am sure that could be also noticed in all different ages. I just particularly noticed it at that age area in my life. New families, new houses, new cars etc... And as I clearly said maybe times have changes. The vast knowledge today on the internet and sites like this hopefully will help people make better decisions. It wasnt around as much when I was younger. Hopefully that is the case but I doubt it. I would Assume (again no statistical data) that it might even be more trying these days.
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I don't think he's asking for stats. Your posts are vague enough that I was having trouble understanding what you were alluding to, so I think he may have been asking for an example of what exactly you mean.
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No, I wasn't asking for data (an "example" is the opposite :) ), I just had no idea what you were talking about, or how they would fail.
Like this:
took more risks and instead of realizing what got them to be in the position they were in. I know because i was one of them. And I knew many of them. ... I have many friends that still havent survived from there success of there early 30's. Thats how they failed
I have no idea what that means.
It's a little more clear in your latest post. Apparently they start living above their means, is that what you mean?
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No, I wasn't asking for data (an "example" is the opposite :) ), I just had no idea what you were talking about, or how they would fail.
Like this:
took more risks and instead of realizing what got them to be in the position they were in. I know because i was one of them. And I knew many of them. ... I have many friends that still havent survived from there success of there early 30's. Thats how they failed
I have no idea what that means.
It's a little more clear in your latest post. Apparently they start living above their means, is that what you mean?
yes. That is what I mean.
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We met with a financial advisor last fall and I thought he was buttering us up when he told us our balance sheet was among the best he'd ever seen for our age.
We're pretty lucky on several accounts especially finding a spouse with almost identical values. And I'm grateful for my grandparents who lived during The Great Depression. The depressing part is that I don't think any of our close friends will ever be able to consider ER or even a comfortable retirement so it's somewhat embarrassing that we're on the high end here.
So, I'm hoping it was a flat fee/hourly adviser.
Lots of shysters out there who try to get people into high-load bullshit investments and/or do a lot of churning for the big commissions
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No, I wasn't asking for data (an "example" is the opposite :) ), I just had no idea what you were talking about, or how they would fail.
Like this:
took more risks and instead of realizing what got them to be in the position they were in. I know because i was one of them. And I knew many of them. ... I have many friends that still havent survived from there success of there early 30's. Thats how they failed
I have no idea what that means.
It's a little more clear in your latest post. Apparently they start living above their means, is that what you mean?
yes. That is what I mean.
Any details? More eating out? Selling the 1986 Corolla for a leased 2014 Mercedes SUV? Moving from an apartment to a McMansion? Boats?
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No, I wasn't asking for data (an "example" is the opposite :) ), I just had no idea what you were talking about, or how they would fail.
Like this:
took more risks and instead of realizing what got them to be in the position they were in. I know because i was one of them. And I knew many of them. ... I have many friends that still havent survived from there success of there early 30's. Thats how they failed
I have no idea what that means.
It's a little more clear in your latest post. Apparently they start living above their means, is that what you mean?
yes. That is what I mean.
Gotcha.
I probably wouldn't worry about that trap too much for most Mustachians.
I think people fall prey to that because they kept living like college students in their 20s (cheaply), then saw some success (with their income), and then had it go to their head and started spending a lot to keep up with the Joneses now that they had "made it."
A Mustachian will should see through that trap.
The key difference being mindset. The ones who failed didn't have a frugal, don't waste mindset set in. They lived cheap because they had to. When they did get money, they spent it. They also had no overarching goal (like FI). I'd bet the vast majority never considered retiring early, because it wasn't even a concept to them (how many people are blown away when they first find MMM and figure out what's possible?).
I have no doubt you're absolutely right - a lot of people in their early-mid 30s fall into a giant debt trap. One that started small during/after college with credit cards, then as they have a family and move up the career ladder starts growing bigger. McMansion in the 'burbs, SUVs to cart around the kids, etc. It's a dangerous time for most people.
I just don't think most of the 20-somethings who are savvy enough to be visiting these forums in their 20s and making the smart moves now and setting in the Mustachian mindset will fall prey to those issues.
I could be wrong though. :)
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^ Exactly!
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Just thought I'd bump this for the fun of it. I'll bet a lot of people have moved up considerably since ARS started this thread way back when.
ETA: If you want to play along and update your position, chose "Remove Vote". Then you can re-select.
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I am really encouraged that the largest group in the poll is in my position. From a lot of the conversations here, it always seems to feel like the vast majority are way over six figures, but knowing there's a huge cohort of under $100K people is great.
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Just thought I'd bump this for the fun of it. I'll bet a lot of people have moved up considerably since ARS started this thread way back when.
I'd forgotten about this thread! Just went back and bumped my vote up a category. Very satisfying.
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The advertisers are salivating over the poll data.
Maybe that is why we get SUV ads on a frugal forum, they just can't believe that anyone would save money rather than spend it on the ads content.
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I'm halfway through my category and pumped up to move into the next step! Hopefully it'll be another year until I can do so.
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some nice numbers shown here . glad to see it .so much better than the blitz we see of how little folks have .
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Wow, I've jumped 2 categories (just barely) since 2012. I love these long running threads.
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Jumped a category since I last voted. :)
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Woot new category
The advertisers are salivating over the poll data.
Maybe that is why we get SUV ads on a frugal forum, they just can't believe that anyone would save money rather than spend it on the ads content.
Just think, there's some guy going "how can I sell these people a six pack of cars?"
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Anyways it's an old enough poll that you could start a new one. Not everyone is going to come back and update so now we no longer have a snapshot of 2012 NW nor do we have a snapshot of current NW. Would have been nice to have an annual poll that gets locked at the end of the year so we can see how demographics change.
Also, poll needs "other" option
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Where are the $1-$2mil, $2-5mil and $5+ categories? The $1mil+ category is getting quite crowded.
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Also, poll needs "other" option
(https://media.giphy.com/media/JnMjpOA4t0YYU/giphy.gif)
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Ahh I've gone up a category too... into the $500-$1m bucket...
2 more years and probably be into next bucket up.
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24 years old and only seriously started working two years ago. If I had to give an estimate of my current Net Worth it would be about $70k right now. That is between, equity in my rental property, three years of max ROTH IRA, antiques, and my savings and checking account.
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I jumped two categories since I voted back then! Woohoo!
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Anyways it's an old enough poll that you could start a new one. Not everyone is going to come back and update so now we no longer have a snapshot of 2012 NW nor do we have a snapshot of current NW. Would have been nice to have an annual poll that gets locked at the end of the year so we can see how demographics change.
Also, poll needs "other" option
yes, this. I,didnt realize it was a 2012 thread when Imcmleted the poll.
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Thinking about my net worth, the calculation comes out somewhat lower because I have a defined benefit pension. If I had a 401k or similar the value of that would be counted in my net worth, correct? I have contributed to my pension with matching but the value of my annuity from it is not really related to my contribution. (CSRS pension)
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I'd love to see a new poll, too.
But not sure how I'd answer as a married person-- combined nw of all my and my spouse's assets? Or just the ones that are in my name?
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I'd love to see a new poll, too.
But not sure how I'd answer as a married person-- combined nw of all my and my spouse's assets? Or just the ones that are in my name?
the new poll defines it as household income.
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Thinking about my net worth, the calculation comes out somewhat lower because I have a defined benefit pension. If I had a 401k or similar the value of that would be counted in my net worth, correct? I have contributed to my pension with matching but the value of my annuity from it is not really related to my contribution. (CSRS pension)
We have a dbp too, but don't count it in our NW because it isn't formally vested yet. Sure, its worth 'something' today, but just a fraction of its full value, so its excluded. Someday,presuming we work long enough, it will be worth much more, and then I will add it to the calculation.
Plus, stuff happens. Pensions can be cut in half. Jobs are left. I don't know what the future holds.
A 401k has real value today. Sure there may be an early withdrawal penalty if you need it now, but that doesn't change its value.
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I'd love to see a new poll, too.
But not sure how I'd answer as a married person-- combined nw of all my and my spouse's assets? Or just the ones that are in my name?
My wife and have been married for about a year, and one of the first things we did after getting married is combine our finances. It was an arduous task, but it really helped us see the bigger picture and get focused on working towards our 'stache. I recommend it!
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Ahh I've gone up a category too... into the $500-$1m bucket...
2 more years and probably be into next bucket up.
SO does that mean you'll retire soon?
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Very happy to be part of the 12.2% !!!
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yes, this. I,didnt realize it was a 2012 thread when Imcmleted the poll.
?
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24 years old and only seriously started working two years ago. If I had to give an estimate of my current Net Worth it would be about $70k right now. That is between, equity in my rental property, three years of max ROTH IRA, antiques, and my savings and checking account.
And that's excellent progress!
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I also went up a category. Pretty stoked!
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I'm halfway through my category and pumped up to move into the next step! Hopefully it'll be another year until I can do so.
We've moved into the next category! I can't seem to update my vote (was able to remove my vote but get an error when trying to re-vote). No big deal though, just here to celebrate!
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Wow. This popped up again. My last vote was -100k to 0. We're now above $100k.
Mustachianism: this shit works.
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Mustachianism: this shit works.
+1 we moved up TWO categories! Wooo!
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I am up into the $250-500k category =D
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Just moved up to the $250k-$500k category for the poll and updated my vote to reflect it. Exciting to see some real growth over the past 1-2 years.
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I moved up 10 categories
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I found the first 100k was the hardest. After that even with some bad luck, I was able to bump it up to 200 k in a little over a year. My next goal is at 250k as long as things continue the same with no drastic changes, I think I can hit that in a year. It also took me longer to hit 100 k because I had to use 2 very productive years to dig out of massive debt.
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We are still working our way back to normal after a few bad years, but even so, net worth is just over $600k right now. I guess cars would add another $25k if we sold them, but I never count them as assets.
One thing I do have (but didn't count) is some books that are increasing in value as time goes by. I just saw one book that I have go for $2k. I always warn my daughter to get those books appraised when I kick the bucket - no yard sales!
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I'm a 21 year old student with about $10k in savings. Yeah! Although $14,000 in what you'd call student debt (0% government kinda loan)(Australia).
Woah, I forgot that I was on MMM at 21! I realised I somehow forgot how old I was - I was actually 20 at the time of this post (25 now).
I was so proud of finishing uni with $10k in cash. Now, having finished uni & working for 3 & a half years, I'm now at about $150,000 networth. And my student debt is $21k (still indexed to inflation - zero hurry to pay back more than the minimum).
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If I include my house I'm at $590k. If I don't, I'm at $300k. The cool thing is that since finding MMM, these #'s have grown, a lot.
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I'm like a paycheck away from moving up. Or if I include the cars but I can't bring myself to look at them as assets for some reason. I'll be back in a few weeks or after a good day in the market (not looking like it lately - which is GOOD!)
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If I include my home equity than I'd move up a bracket, but I'm not considering it for now...
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Can I get a little WHOO HOO?
Just hit $750K net worth today. Came here to celebrate.
Since we started tracking and aggressively working on this, here are our benchmarks:
4/3/14 $430k (start)
9/19/14 $500k
11/6/14 $550k
5/9/15 $600k
4/13/16 $650k
9/7/16 $700k
5/6/17 $750k
Also, we paid cash for major house remodeling ($48k) and started to pay for a wedding (about $20K wedding amount to come between now and october) between oct 2016 and this month. Neither of us make a ton like some of you awesome engineers and IT folks, but we're rocking it.
Thanks for your badass support!
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WHOO HOO! ;)
That's awesome. Rock on.
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I moved up 10 categories
Alas, my category hasn't changed at all. FWP, I suppose.
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Can I get a little WHOO HOO?
Just hit $750K net worth today. Came here to celebrate.
Since we started tracking and aggressively working on this, here are our benchmarks:
4/3/14 $430k (start)
9/19/14 $500k
11/6/14 $550k
5/9/15 $600k
4/13/16 $650k
9/7/16 $700k
5/6/17 $750k
Also, we paid cash for major house remodeling ($48k) and started to pay for a wedding (about $20K wedding amount to come between now and october) between oct 2016 and this month. Neither of us make a ton like some of you awesome engineers and IT folks, but we're rocking it.
Thanks for your badass support!
Nice going! You look to have a similar trajectory to ours over the past few years in terms of starting at the same place at the same time, but you are 100K in net worth ahead of us right now. That is impressive! Good spur to me to catch up.
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I am up into the $250-500k category =D
Same here! Seems like each 100k is getting easier...
They say the first million is the hardest.... maybe ill find out if its true one day!
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I am up into the $250-500k category =D
Same here! Seems like each 100k is getting easier...
They say the first million is the hardest.... maybe ill find out if its true one day!
Well as long as your stache keeps growing each 100k should indeed keep getting easier as long as the market doesn't drop.
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No idea what I voted last time or when, but I know our NW has shot up considerably since I found MMM. Currently sits at $1.5M, not including my FERS pension (which I'll get in less than 2 years). At retirement, if I valued the pension simply on the basis of what I'd need in a 401k drawing 4% per annum, it bumps our NW over $3M (it's very difficult to value it using an annuity calculator because of the survivor feature). Just passed the 2-year countdown threshold this past Sunday -- I can hardly believe I'm that close!
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I would have liked more breaks above $1M. Millionaires next door fascinates me.
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Closing in on $1.2M. This includes estimated net liquidation value of a couple rental condos and my primary residence, plus brokerage accounts and retirement savings.
Even with the thought of relocating to a lower cost of living area, this doesn't seem like nearly enough to FIRE -- primarily because of the uncertainty of health insurance and health care costs. I almost feel like I need at least half of a million USD in my stash just to be dedicated to potential future medical coverage/costs. I guess my target is probably somewhere close to $2M.
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I got to move up to the top bracket! For the "race" thread I don't include my primary residence, but if I do (I did here), then I'm sitting at $1.2M. Sadly there's no retirement for us until we're able to leave our current HCOL area, but the good news is that if we were really in a bind, we COULD move to a LCOL area and be set now. That's a really, really nice feeling!
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No idea what I voted last time or when, but I know our NW has shot up considerably since I found MMM. Currently sits at $1.5M, not including my FERS pension (which I'll get in less than 2 years). At retirement, if I valued the pension simply on the basis of what I'd need in a 401k drawing 4% per annum, it bumps our NW over $3M (it's very difficult to value it using an annuity calculator because of the survivor feature). Just passed the 2-year countdown threshold this past Sunday -- I can hardly believe I'm that close!
Do you lose this FERS if you don't wait to retire? Seems like you have more than enough to be FI now, especially if you lived in a LCOL area and applied some Mustachian principles.
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Not sure this poll makes sense for new peeps who invest in RE like myself. My networth is technically -260k~, but thats because I have cashflowing rentals ;o that pay down their own mortgage.
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Thanks for bumping the thread - I've jumped up a category! No idea when I first voted, but I have updated our standing.
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Not sure this poll makes sense for new peeps who invest in RE like myself. My networth is technically -260k~, but thats because I have cashflowing rentals ;o that pay down their own mortgage.
You should be counting the value of the property in your assets and subtracting what you owe in your liabilities.
So unless your mortgages are "underwater", i.e., more than the properties are worth, your rentals should be adding to your net worth.
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Yeah they are both bought in the last 2 years so like 10k total equity or something.
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As of this morning I'm $500 from the next bucket. Looking at the market it seems that I'll remain there for now :). A few investments that are floating around in hyperspace between my payroll processor and custodian will hit next week and since my bucket is on the lower end, this may put us up into the next one :) (250 - 500K) Yeehaw.
Rock on everyone. Impressive figures all around!
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WHOO HOO! ;)
That's awesome. Rock on.
Thanks a mil, nouveauRiche
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Nice going! You look to have a similar trajectory to ours over the past few years in terms of starting at the same place at the same time, but you are 100K in net worth ahead of us right now. That is impressive! Good spur to me to catch up.
Way to go, wenchsenior! Glad to provide a bit of an incentive. How 'bout we race to $1M???
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While it's fun to see how others are doing, it's important to emphasize that personal finance is a game where your opponent is not other people, but simply your goals. You're playing against your financial goals and beating the is all that matters.
I think it's useful to know and track your net worth, of course, but hope nobody feels bad to find themselves in the bottom quartile. It doesn't matter so much where you are as what direction you're moving and at what rate!
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While it's fun to see how others are doing, it's important to emphasize that personal finance is a game where your opponent is not other people, but simply your goals. You're playing against your financial goals and beating the is all that matters.
I think it's useful to know and track your net worth, of course, but hope nobody feels bad to find themselves in the bottom quartile. It doesn't matter so much where you are as what direction you're moving and at what rate!
Absolutely! Some people with a higher net worth will take longer to get to FI than people with a lower one. That could be because their savings rate is lower or because a large portion of their net worth will not provide income to live on. For example, a $1,000,000 house with a mortgage with $500,000 worth of equity will make the net worth look higher, but it will actually slow down reaching FI due to the high costs it adds to one's expenses.
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No idea what I voted last time or when, but I know our NW has shot up considerably since I found MMM. Currently sits at $1.5M, not including my FERS pension (which I'll get in less than 2 years). At retirement, if I valued the pension simply on the basis of what I'd need in a 401k drawing 4% per annum, it bumps our NW over $3M (it's very difficult to value it using an annuity calculator because of the survivor feature). Just passed the 2-year countdown threshold this past Sunday -- I can hardly believe I'm that close!
Do you lose this FERS if you don't wait to retire? Seems like you have more than enough to be FI now, especially if you lived in a LCOL area and applied some Mustachian principles.
My guess, based on my own FERS, not losing FERS pension totally but losing the lifetime subsidized Health care that goes with it and possibly having to wait until 62 vs immediate pension.
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I estimate being in the 250 k plus range fairly soon, assuming no drastic changes this year.
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I estimate being in the 250 k plus range fairly soon, assuming no drastic changes this year.
Congrats! I'm basically at 10% of FI (not including the equity in my home) which I know is arbitrary but for me seems like a big milestone. This thing is real! It can be done!
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32 married
net worth is $152,000.
yearly change is usually about $35,000, This last year it was a bit more and I'd like to see that continue to accelerate. Wouldn't we all :)
Now 37; 2 kids.
NW: $815k
5 yr. change + $663k or $132k / yr.
It's interesting to take a time warp back :)
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No idea what I voted last time or when, but I know our NW has shot up considerably since I found MMM. Currently sits at $1.5M, not including my FERS pension (which I'll get in less than 2 years). At retirement, if I valued the pension simply on the basis of what I'd need in a 401k drawing 4% per annum, it bumps our NW over $3M (it's very difficult to value it using an annuity calculator because of the survivor feature). Just passed the 2-year countdown threshold this past Sunday -- I can hardly believe I'm that close!
Do you lose this FERS if you don't wait to retire? Seems like you have more than enough to be FI now, especially if you lived in a LCOL area and applied some Mustachian principles.
Hmm, just now seeing this question after someone else bumped the thread! I wouldn't lose the FERS pension outright, but I would only get a deferred annuity collectible at age 62 (or as early as 57 with a 25% reduction), and there are no COLAs for the pension until 62, not to mention I wouldn't get the LEO 1.7% FERS pension (vs. the 1% regular FERS) if I didn't complete 20 LEO years. In addition, my lifestyle is quite a bit spendier than MMM's, so it would not be supportable on what I currently have + a deferred pension. It is more than worth it to me to stick it out another 16 months to grab the brass ring.
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32 married
net worth is $152,000.
yearly change is usually about $35,000, This last year it was a bit more and I'd like to see that continue to accelerate. Wouldn't we all :)
Now 37; 2 kids.
NW: $815k
5 yr. change + $663k or $132k / yr.
It's interesting to take a time warp back :)
Congrats! This gives me hope- I feel like I'm in a similar position to 32-yr-old-clutchy