Please help me help my parents

[Villanelle]

As far as thinking deeper desperation will make them act rationally, keep in mind that it isn't unheard of for someone to take their last few dollars and go to a casino.  That tells you all you need to know about whether deep financial desperation leads to more sound decision making. 

[okits]

Zamboni (and everyone else tackling similar) I'm so sorry you're having to deal with such difficult situations.

I think what it really boils down to is your parents (and mine, along with so many others) don’t really want to make any changes. They want to keep doing what they’ve always done, but have you & your siblings make changes on your end to enable them to keep doing the same old shit.

I've read the whole thread and this distillation really stood out to me.  Financial or non-financial, someone is expecting you to give your resources to sustain a lifestyle they cannot sustain by themselves.  And they are willfully refusing to make changes that will be uncomfortable for them, but will make their situation one that they can manage by themselves.

Don't help people more than they are willing to help themselves.

But, I can tell you it won’t go on forever…if that helps at all.

This is a comfort for me to hear.  I hope you're able to make good use of the advice in this thread, Zamboni.

[Dicey]

I could not possibly agree more with Sibley’s comment above. My father spent a lifetime of making threats to end his life over one thing or another. I would say that it was often used as a way to manipulate others to get what he wanted, but he did eventually carry through on it after a particular brutal interaction between the two of us. I know that I am not responsible and that he is the one who made the decision and took the action, but I also now fully comprehend that it was something that had been on his mind for quite some time and it’s possible that medical intervention in earlier years may have helped prevent him from actually getting to the point where he followed through on his threats.

Holy shit! I am so sorry you had to experience that. I cannot imagine dealing with the aftermath of his actions or the lead-up either. Yikes! Hugs from this internet stranger, but only if you want them.

[former player]

I could not possibly agree more with Sibley’s comment above. My father spent a lifetime of making threats to end his life over one thing or another. I would say that it was often used as a way to manipulate others to get what he wanted, but he did eventually carry through on it after a particular brutal interaction between the two of us. I know that I am not responsible and that he is the one who made the decision and took the action, but I also now fully comprehend that it was something that had been on his mind for quite some time and it’s possible that medical intervention in earlier years may have helped prevent him from actually getting to the point where he followed through on his threats.

Holy shit! I am so sorry you had to experience that. I cannot imagine dealing with the aftermath of his actions or the lead-up either. Yikes! Hugs from this internet stranger, but only if you want them.

iluvzbeach, I'm sorry too, that must still be hard to deal with.

My experience of someone threatening suicide was when I ended my relationship with them.  I was 19.  I walked regardless, and last I heard they were still alive a couple of decades later.  But it would still have been the right thing for me to walk even if that had not been the case.

[iluvzbeach]

I could not possibly agree more with Sibley’s comment above. My father spent a lifetime of making threats to end his life over one thing or another. I would say that it was often used as a way to manipulate others to get what he wanted, but he did eventually carry through on it after a particular brutal interaction between the two of us. I know that I am not responsible and that he is the one who made the decision and took the action, but I also now fully comprehend that it was something that had been on his mind for quite some time and it’s possible that medical intervention in earlier years may have helped prevent him from actually getting to the point where he followed through on his threats.

Holy shit! I am so sorry you had to experience that. I cannot imagine dealing with the aftermath of his actions or the lead-up either. Yikes! Hugs from this internet stranger, but only if you want them.

iluvzbeach, I'm sorry too, that must still be hard to deal with.

My experience of someone threatening suicide was when I ended my relationship with them.  I was 19.  I walked regardless, and last I heard they were still alive a couple of decades later.  But it would still have been the right thing for me to walk even if that had not been the case.

Thank you @Dicey and @former player for your kind words and, yes, internet hugs are accepted. I’m not gonna lie, it was a shitshow the last several years of his life, including things like restraining orders, calls to the cops after his threats to shoot up the E.R., pharmacy & doctor’s office, etc. In the end, I will always feel sad he was the way he was and that he couldn’t be the father I needed (or seek the help he needed) but I am greatly relieved the drama is over, that my stepmother is safe & no other people were physically injured.

[Zamboni]

^Wow, yeah, that sounds really rough!

I'm glad to read you have made peace with it now.

[iluvzbeach]

Thank you, Zamboni. It was rough and still is at times, but gets better everyday. It’s been more than a year now and when I look back at where I was (mentally & emotionally) this time last year, in comparison to now, the progress is tremendous. I’ve learned so much over the past five+ years and don’t think I’ll ever again let myself get wrapped up with a narcissist. Of course, the first one was my father and that wasn’t my fault but I certainly know what red flags to look out for now when interacting with others.

I realize this is all somewhat off topic from the situation with your dad & stepmom but the lack of control over finances/spending and hoarding are very similar.

[Zamboni]

That "debt free scream" letter I got a year ago is looking more and more like complete and utter malarkey.

So I just had another epiphany looking at Dad and SM's records: they have borrowed all of the cash value out of their universal and whole life insurance policies!

Well, that explains why their life insurance payments in their "budget" is so large. I thought it was just because of their advanced ages, which I'm sure is making the premiums high, but they are ALSO actually paying off loans in those life insurance line items.

I'm sure they would argue with me and say "Oh no, that's not debt! We are paying ourselves back."  MMMkay. Not going to argue about it.

But then I did some more research and also learned that if they quit paying the insurance premiums now (which was something I thought I might advise), then they have to pay income taxes on the amounts of these "loans". Dammit. Taxes that they don't have any money at all to pay. So they are in yet another pickle of stupidity. 

SM could teach a master class in ways to creatively move debt around while you slowly sink yourself, all while professing to everyone around you how incredibly smart and successful you are.

[dandarc]

Might not be the worst idea to stop paying, take the income tax hit and get on a payment plan with the IRS - maybe could ease cash-flow. You've probably looked into that though.

[iluvzbeach]

That "debt free scream" letter I got a year ago is looking more and more like complete and utter malarkey.

So I just had another epiphany looking at Dad and SM's records: they have borrowed all of the cash value out of their universal and whole life insurance policies!

Well, that explains why their life insurance payments in their "budget" is so large. I thought it was just because of their advanced ages, which I'm sure is making the premiums high, but they are ALSO actually paying off loans in those life insurance line items.

I'm sure they would argue with me and say "Oh no, that's not debt! We are paying ourselves back."  MMMkay. Not going to argue about it.

But then I did some more research and also learned that if they quit paying the insurance premiums now (which was something I thought I might advise), then they have to pay income taxes on the amounts of these "loans". Dammit. Taxes that they don't have any money at all to pay. So they are in yet another pickle of stupidity. 

SM could teach a master class in ways to creatively move debt around while you slowly sink yourself, all while professing to everyone around you how incredibly smart and successful you are.

Zamboni, the exact same book could have been written by my dad & stepmom. I swear, the exact same type of shenanigans. Where do these people learn this crap? It truly boggles the mind.

ETA: As dandarc suggested, use the cash value to payoff the loans and take the tax hit. Call the IRS proactively and get on a payment plan for taxes owed. They will let you pay a very small amount for a very long time, until it’s all paid off. How do I know this you might ask??? See aforementioned comment about my family doing the exact same type of stuff.

[Zamboni]

^This type of policy loan must get marketed to seniors as a solution to their money problems. Sigh.

I don't see how they can keep paying the amount on these that they are paying right now. Every month it's literally more than half of what they get from Social Security!

So, it's not really going to be a choice whether or not to keep the policies. But there is no existing cash value, as far as I can tell . . . they have siphoned it all out. I don't know when and that doesn't matter.

I just wish they had surrendered the policies, taken the cash value, and started paying the taxes on the income when they decided they needed that money. Instead, they set themselves up with yet another set of monthly installment payments that any 5th grader with a calculator can figure out they can't afford.  And then they "pay for" their groceries and everything else on their credit cards.

And it's probably going to be an argument with them if I suggest anything about letting the policies go. My Dad has not one, not two, but THREE different universal or whole life policies. Why? SM works, so technically he doesn't have any dependents. Who does that? I know he had one of them set up when we were kids, but the other two are more recent, and from other companies. My Dad always got his insurance from the same local agent, who used to come to our home, and he always went with the same company. Now he has policies with two additional different companies, and SM has a single policy covering her.

And here's the icing: if they both died right now, the benefit payout from all of these policies combined would still not cover their current outstanding debts. Nope.

I just hope there aren't any "surrender fees" in these things. . . gonna be some fun times reading fine print in the next couple of weeks.

[Villanelle]

^This type of policy loan must get marketed to seniors as a solution to their money problems. Sigh.

I don't see how they can keep paying the amount on these that they are paying right now. Every month it's literally more than half of what they get from Social Security!

So, it's not really going to be a choice whether or not to keep the policies. But there is no existing cash value, as far as I can tell . . . they have siphoned it all out. I don't know when and that doesn't matter.

I just wish they had surrendered the policies, taken the cash value, and started paying the taxes on the income when they decided they needed that money. Instead, they set themselves up with yet another set of monthly installment payments that any 5th grader with a calculator can figure out they can't afford.  And then they "pay for" their groceries and everything else on their credit cards.

And it's probably going to be an argument with them if I suggest anything about letting the policies go. My Dad has not one, not two, but THREE different universal or whole life policies. Why? SM works, so technically he doesn't have any dependents. Who does that? I know he had one of them set up when we were kids, but the other two are more recent, and from other companies. My Dad always got his insurance from the same local agent, who used to come to our home, and he always went with the same company. Now he has policies with two additional different companies, and SM has a single policy covering her.

And here's the icing: if they both died right now, the benefit payout from all of these policies combined would still not cover their current outstanding debts. Nope.

I just hope there aren't any "surrender fees" in these things. . . gonna be some fun times reading fine print in the next couple of weeks.

I'll offer that those "fun times" should be theirs, not yours.  Once again, it sounds like you are allowing this to mean more to you than it does to them.  have they even asked you to figure out the policies?  It sounds like no matter what you determine, they aren't interested in giving them up.  So don't waste your time, especially if they aren't specifically asking for help with this *specific* thing. You can't save them is they don't even acknowledge they want or need saving.   

[Zamboni]

I appreciate where you are coming from. They are literally begging for help. Brother and I have definitely agreed we need to have boundaries with what we try to do for them. Brother just sent them a check and he has vowed it will be the last one. They have successfully guilted him into it with a combination of crying and meanness. I have never turned on the money flow, and so they have no expectation of money from me, although they have asked.

They have recently asked me to "look at things and make suggestions" and help them figure out what to do. I suspect that "figure out what to do" they think will mean that I will decide to give them money. That is an incorrect assumption, I assure you. They also asked a friend of theirs to look at some numbers, and he and I have compared notes. But they didn't share everything with him . . . I keep finding out about more debt. So it's hard to even try to help people who are not forthcoming. Some of the deception is clearly intentional, which is annoying, and that would grind me down if I wasn't used to dealing with intentional deception pretty regularly at work. I'm sort of numb to some baseline level of untruth just like I'm numb to crocodile tears.

And they literally can't see. I do understand that people with physical limitations have mechanisms to still be able to fully function in business transactions, but SM is not taking the steps needed to utilize those accommodations. SM needs eye surgery that she says she can't afford, and she just signed a couple of loan documents this month that she complained later she couldn't read at all because the print was too small. She then tried to blame the person who was asking her to sign them for the fact that she signed something she couldn't see well enough to read. I'm sorry, SM, but please don't do that again!

Last time I was there she told me she can't read a normal paperback book. She also signs my Dad's name. . . he hasn't seen any of the things that have his "signature" on them for quite some time. He may not even know about all of these life insurance policies, honestly. Or maybe he does. I will ask him next time it is just the two of us and we can talk.

Also, they don't have TAXES in the page with their budget typed out that they gave me. They are self employed . . . so they need to be setting aside income taxes. And they have ALWAYS been self employed. It's not like this is a new issue. I'm afraid to even look at their last few tax returns. That will be next week's chore.

Right now I am just on a fact finding mission, with their blessing, to see if I can even come up with any suggestions that will make a difference. I probably can't.

I do really appreciate the advice. In a way I need you all to keep reminding me that they are the ones that shot all the holes in the hull of their ship.

[G-dog]

I am really sorry your brother gave them money. Again. I am sure he knows it is a girft, not anloan he will ever get back.

Stay strong.

[okits]

They are literally begging for help.

So it's hard to even try to help people who are not forthcoming. Some of the deception is clearly intentional

I think you need to find the quickest and easiest path to them knowing you know they are going to do whatever they want, regardless of your advice and suggestions. 

Before you torture yourself much more with unrealistic hopes your parents will behave reasonably, please also ask yourself if there are people who love you who will be hurt by seeing you go through (and them supporting you through) yet another round of the same old dysfunction and emotional manipulation.  If there are others you'll be taking with you on this ride, ask yourself if you really want to do that to them when you know what the outcome will be.

[former player]

I need to be very clear with you about this: your SM has committed the criminal offence of fraud.  She has done this by signing your father's name without his authority or consent in order to obtain money.  She has quite probably also done it by lying to get loans and misrepresenting her ability to repay the loans she has taken out.

I get that you need to understand their financial position to the best of your ability, because unless you do that you will be left with uncertainty and guilt because you will think that you haven't done everything you should to help.  So by all means carry on trying to find out what the situation is, as best you can.

But for dog's sake, please do not take any single action on their behalf that involves a third person, because if you do you (and perhaps your brother too) are in danger of being suspected of committing fraud alongside them in a joint enterprise.  And given that your father and step mother have no money left and your brother and you do, then if you give anyone the least possible excuse, guess who the people who are owed money are going to try to come after to get it back?  So no letters, no emails, no phone calls, no nothing, ever, at all, forever and amen, that involves your father's and step mother's finances.

Once you have worked out what their situation is, there are only two things you can do.  One is to sit down with them and go through what you've found out:  the value of what they own against the amount that they owe, and the amount of their income against the amount of their outgoings.  The other is to refer them to a debt advice charity.

That's it.  After that, you can support them emotionally.  You can perhaps find options for charitable housing.  But you do nothing in relation to their finances that involves any other person, ever.

(I get that I'm probably shouting into the void here, because the ties of family obligation are strong and have been wound around you and your brother until you can no longer call yourselves independent adults in this respect.  But I had to try.)

[Omy]

^^THIS.

Also, would you give drugs or alcohol to an addict if they screamed loudly enough? If not, then stop handing them money. (This advice is more for your brother than you, but to this outsider it looks like you are getting sucked in as well).

Do not become their POA for financial matters under any circumstances. You don't need to go down with this ship.

[Dicey]

Dear God, please listen to former player and Omy.

[Kris]

Agree with Former Player that in light of this you should 100% not consent to being their POA or have any other financial role in their lives.

[Zamboni]

I need to be very clear with you about this: your SM has committed the criminal offence of fraud.  She has done this by signing your father's name without his authority or consent in order to obtain money.  She has quite probably also done it by lying to get loans and misrepresenting her ability to repay the loans she has taken out.

I get that you need to understand their financial position to the best of your ability, because unless you do that you will be left with uncertainty and guilt because you will think that you haven't done everything you should to help.  So by all means carry on trying to find out what the situation is, as best you can.

But for dog's sake, please do not take any single action on their behalf that involves a third person, because if you do you (and perhaps your brother too) are in danger of being suspected of committing fraud alongside them in a joint enterprise.  And given that your father and step mother have no money left and your brother and you do, then if you give anyone the least possible excuse, guess who the people who are owed money are going to try to come after to get it back?  So no letters, no emails, no phone calls, no nothing, ever, at all, forever and amen, that involves your father's and step mother's finances.

Once you have worked out what their situation is, there are only two things you can do.  One is to sit down with them and go through what you've found out:  the value of what they own against the amount that they owe, and the amount of their income against the amount of their outgoings.  The other is to refer them to a debt advice charity.

That's it.  After that, you can support them emotionally.  You can perhaps find options for charitable housing.  But you do nothing in relation to their finances that involves any other person, ever.

(I get that I'm probably shouting into the void here, because the ties of family obligation are strong and have been wound around you and your brother until you can no longer call yourselves independent adults in this respect.  But I had to try.)

Roger that.

My brother told me this some time ago, and he is staying a mile away from any entanglement in it. I think that's why he felt guilty and sent money. He has substantial assets (way more than me).

Trust me, I had no idea what kind of Pandora's box this was going to turn into. All last year they were saying "oh we're doing fine" and then there had just recently been that debt free scream letter. Even though I knew they had bad money habits, I had no idea it was this bad. So, based on what brother and you are telling me, I should refuse to even act as POA, should it come to that. I'll just defer it to SM's son or friend or whoever she named as my successor.

I might try to find out if Christian Against Poverty, or a similar group, operates near them.

[Villanelle]

Yes, the are begging for help.  They are also lying to you, repeatedly and over a long period of time.  And you continue to go back for more.  So they will continue to lie. 

"Dad and SM.  there are still bills and loans and maybe other things I don't know about.  You say you are desperate for my  help, but lying does not indicate you actually are.  I can't help unless I know *everything*.  Every bill, every asset, every insurance policy, every account both debt and asset.  everything.  This is the very last time I will ask.  Take a week and gather it all.  If, after that, I find any other deceptions or omissions, I am done.  Forever and for good.  I will not be lied to and then expected to help.  This is it.  Your last and final chance."

If you can't walk away yet, give a very clear, very direct speech to them, letting them know you are fucking done being lied to but then guilted into helping. And stick to it.  You continue to enable their bad behavior which makes them worse off and moves them further from actual progress (which I personally think is unlikely to every happen, but letting them get away with this stuff makes it even less likely).  Or let them keep lying and manipulating and doing whatever the heck the want, and spending whatever the heck they want.  Not calling them out on this may feel kinder and easier, but it actually has the opposite effect of what you are trying to do. 

[Zamboni]

^Yeah, they have been called out on it.

Brother used the word "misled" when he talked to them last. That led to tears and accusations that he was being mean. I followed up with "you can't blame him if he was upset when there has been so much deception. If you are not completely transparent with us, then you can't expect anyone to help you." That was met with awkward silence. They know what the words misled and deception mean.

Or, more specifically, SM has been called out. Dad doesn't really know what is going on all of the time, to be frank. He 100% can still do what he does for employment competently, but outside of that he can get confused pretty easily. I don't think he took out any of these loans or opened these credit cards. He didn't seem to know about some of it at all when I talked to him briefly one-on-one on the phone, which is hard to do because she is always there with him. As soon as he started answering a couple of simple questions about their money situation and one loan document that I am certain from looking at it he did NOT sign himself, I heard her in the background telling him to say he needed to call me back later and hang up. So that's concerning.

And I don't want you to think that this is just me hating on SM because of the cliche that kids hate on their step mothers. I was sincerely happy for them when they got married. I was long grown and out of the house when they met, and I was glad my Dad found someone who seemed like she would be a decent partner. She can be quite pleasant, and I've always gotten along with her just fine. But it's becoming pretty clear that she can also be a manipulative liar.

I had a stray thought a couple of weeks ago about calling adult protective services, to protect him from what I am figuring out is basically her financial abuse. It is possible for a husband to be financially abused by a wife, right? But I'm not going to make that call. It would really be upsetting to him because he loves SM. He also feels completely dependent on her, and he is scared of what will happen if she isn't there, which of course is an element of an abusive situation, but it doesn't mean he won't react very badly to anyone interfering with his "blissful" captivity.

For example, a coworker found out a hired in-home care assistant was getting personal checks for thousands of dollars a month from her Mom. And so coworker called the agency, who fired the assistant immediately. And her Mom's reaction? "I'm not talking to you because you took my best friend away." Yeah, totally irrational.

In the case of SM, I recently asked for everything to be put in one spot so that I can go through it all at once since they say they want my help. We'll see soon if that actually happens. If it doesn't, then I'm out. If it does, then I'm probably still out, based upon what I am already learning. Any inkling of intentional tax fraud, for example, and I'm instantly pulling the plug on my participation entirely, and I will tell them why.

Do keep reminding me not to be duped or drawn into a quagmire. I need to be reminded. I'm like a moth to the flame sometimes, unfortunately.

[iluvzbeach]

Odds are very, very strong that you could say what Villanelle suggests above and they will either lie to you outright or via omission and/or still return to their old ways. This is a pattern I saw over & over again in my family situation. These are addicts, pure & simple, and they won’t change until they really want to and pursue (on their own & through their own hard work) the help they need. Think about two drug addicts who want to get clean, how often do we hear of them successfully getting clean together? Not very often. They enable each other and they want everyone else to enable them. Reckless spending is your parents’ drug.

It is so hard to watch such a train wreck, especially when you know how easy it would be to remedy the situation.

[G-dog]

Your dad and SM are lucky you are even entertaining the idea of trying to help them.

[Zamboni]

I want to thank everyone on MMM for being so up front and kind about all of this. All of your advice and stories and insights are highly appreciated.

The events and drama have worn me down and I probably won't post for a bit while I try to sort through things, but eventually I will update again.

[Villanelle]

Odds are very, very strong that you could say what Villanelle suggests above and they will either lie to you outright or via omission and/or still return to their old ways. This is a pattern I saw over & over again in my family situation. These are addicts, pure & simple, and they won’t change until they really want to and pursue (on their own & through their own hard work) the help they need. Think about two drug addicts who want to get clean, how often do we hear of them successfully getting clean together? Not very often. They enable each other and they want everyone else to enable them. Reckless spending is your parents’ drug.

It is so hard to watch such a train wreck, especially when you know how easy it would be to remedy the situation.

Oh yes, the almost certainly will.

But it seems that for some people, having clearly laid out a consequence them makes it easier to follow through. 

If you truly feel your dad is being financially abused (or taken advantage of), make the call.  Gather the evidence of signatures that look nothing like his, and turn it over. If you do this and he doesn't forgive you, you can rest knowing you've done what you can to protect him.  Again, it's not a kindness to let him continue to be taken advantage of, just so he doesn't get mad at you.  If your motivation in all this is truly to help him, then doing it even if it makes him mad is the right step.

[mspym]

Good luck and firm boundaries.

[rmorris50]

That "debt free scream" letter I got a year ago is looking more and more like complete and utter malarkey.

So I just had another epiphany looking at Dad and SM's records: they have borrowed all of the cash value out of their universal and whole life insurance policies!

Well, that explains why their life insurance payments in their "budget" is so large. I thought it was just because of their advanced ages, which I'm sure is making the premiums high, but they are ALSO actually paying off loans in those life insurance line items.

I'm sure they would argue with me and say "Oh no, that's not debt! We are paying ourselves back."  MMMkay. Not going to argue about it.

But then I did some more research and also learned that if they quit paying the insurance premiums now (which was something I thought I might advise), then they have to pay income taxes on the amounts of these "loans". Dammit. Taxes that they don't have any money at all to pay. So they are in yet another pickle of stupidity. 

SM could teach a master class in ways to creatively move debt around while you slowly sink yourself, all while professing to everyone around you how incredibly smart and successful you are.

Not sure if this was already touched on, but the loans on the life insurance policies don’t have to be paid back until their death. The loan balance will be netted out of the death benefit, and the net death benefit paid to the beneficiaries. And this approach should also avoid taxes. However, what you don’t want is the loans to grow due to interest and cause the policies to lapse before they die since then yes they will have to pay taxes on all the gains the policy had over its life. So I would have them pay the loan interest and cost of insurance charges to keep the policy inforce, but not pay back loan principal. This should help lower the policy payments. assuming they can even still afford to pay anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zamboni]

^This is good to know, thank you @rmorris50

[Sultan58]

This so clearly a bankruptcy situation. Why are you continuing to push this rock uphill?

Any money you invest in trying to help is wasted money. You cannot fix this.

[rmorris50]

^This is good to know, thank you @rmorris50

No problem. Also, any loan principal they pay is going to their beneficiaries, not themselves. Unless they reloan the money back to themselves before they die. So in my mind no need to pay back the loan principal unless they have to provide for beneficiaries. But that doesn’t sound like the case here.


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[Zamboni]

This has been very enlightening.

You are going to tell me I did more work on this than I should. And you are right, of course. But I love my Dad and he needs help.

They asked me to go through things. More specifically, Dad asked me to go through things and "help" his wife because she 100% handles their finances (by her choice). SM seemed resigned to letting me have access after she tried to deflect for about a month, wanting instead for us to just give them money. I told my Dad I needed a very detailed picture of a normal month of income and spending, and he thought this was a good idea. At first I was sent some very curated spreadsheets, but I insisted on direct account viewing access if I was going to participate. Because I was able to download most of everything or get hardcopies to go through away from their gaze, it gave me time to sort through it without any defensiveness and explanations and argumentation.

I ended up charting out every expenditure I could find for four full months (3 from parts of last year and one this year). I think I was able to attribute more than 85% of their spending to various categories that I customized as I went in my previously made "one spreadsheet to rule them all." To try to be as "generous" as possible to them, I avoided "higher spending" times, like summer months when they took big vacations or the holiday shopping season. I did this on purpose to mitigate the excuse "but those weren't normal months!"

There was some good news! First, the stories of their medical bills have been greatly exaggerated. They have good medical insurance, paying much lower premiums than I do while still receiving great healthcare. Copays are low. Prescription costs are WAY lower than I expected. That was relieving after the stories of woe I have been told. Also, even though they haven't made any progress at paying down their mortgage, their housing expenses remain reasonably low for their local area. They have only made a few late payments on CC's, and they haven't missed any payments on anything.

But obviously it wasn't all good news.

It didn't matter that I avoided months with travel or holiday shopping: even in their "lower spending" months the spending was more than twice as much as they bring home. Only counting their more "frugal" months, their annual spend rate was $160K last year. If one looks at the actual picture and includes things like vacations and home repairs, then their annual spend rate was more like $200K last year. It was jaw dropping for me.

Their best case scenario annual income is $80K, which includes both social security and working with no gaps, no sick days, etc.

So this disparity is a big problem.

Their resources have been drained.
They have previously borrowed all of Dad's life insurance cash value.
He had an IRA but that money is completely gone.
They have borrowed all of the home equity that banks are going to allow.
Credit cards are racking up, of course.
They have no savings. None. At first I was delighted to see that they do have some money in a savings account, but by looking through everything very carefully I figured out that SM recently got a large cash advance from a credit card and put it in there, I think to make it look like she has been responsible by having a emergency fund when that just hasn't been true. The credit card advance amount and date exactly match the large deposit into that account a fews days later. So the debt cancels that out (and worse.) Facepalm!

I wasn't even sure I could get through it there were so many transactions (see below). My brother and sister gave me pep talks each day but also told me to quit if I needed to quit for my own sanity. It took me days just due to the sheer volume of online purchase transactions. But I made myself go through all of the Paypal and Amazon and 7 different credit card statements and bank statements for the months I had selected, ticking them off in my spreadsheet to keep things straight and also feel like I was getting somewhere.

The biggest issue boils down to three major topics:
1) SM has a HUGE online shopping addiction. There are literally hundreds of transactions in a month. Almost every day there are multiple purchases of items she uses for her hobby. Some days there are 10+ purchases at different places. I looked up all of these websites to see exactly what they were and make sure I wasn't mis-categorizing expenses, and they are all related to her hobby. My Dad does not share in this hobby. Think something like knitting (although that isn't it . . . don't want to be more specific, but I want you to understand that he has nothing to do with it at all). She must get some kind of dopamine hit from every transaction.
2) Deception. This is actually the biggest problem in the situation.
3) Declining health and aging which will eventually impact their abilities to work.

MMM forumites, you called it: She's just an addict.

She lies to my Dad, to us, to her friends, to everyone about what things have cost.
She has repeatedly gaslighted my Dad into thinking that it is his fault. She told him he has medical and dental bills that are causing their money problems. After a careful analysis, I can see that this is completely untrue, and, frankly, it would be infuriating . . .  if I let it anger me. She has lied to my brother so many times about so many things that he has decided to no longer talk to her. She manipulates my Dad to lie to us by lying to him and them telling him he needs to ask us for money. It's unclear to my brother how complicit he is, but after talking with him a lot the last week and asking him specific questions about specific things it is clear to me that he has been duped right along with everyone else.

She blames him also for blowing their money and says she just can't say no to him. But in fact his hobbies are free or nearly free. So that is a problem.

I think she has realized in the past two months that she may have run them into bankruptcy. This has caused tears and tears and tears and use of whiny voice begging for sympathy. Poor, poor SM. Did I write earlier in the thread that she and her previous husband declared bankruptcy? Her story has always been that it was due to his medical bills. I never believed that, but now I really don't believe it.

So now I <strike>have to</strike> want to figure out how to keep my Dad from basically becoming a homeless person. He truly loves her and I hope finding all of this out doesn't break his heart. He has worked like a dog his whole life.

Edited to add: Gah! How do you put a line through text on this board?!

[G-dog]

I don’t know if you can untangle your dad’s “finances” from your step mom’s, or if your dad will believe your analysis. But at least you and your siblings now know the truth, whether your dad will ever believe it.

[Metalcat]

K...just curious.

How exactly do you plan to help your father not become homeless?

They have no assets and you have no way (and no right) to control his wife. What can you actually do beyond just explaining the truth to him, which he may or may not be willing to listen to??

So SM is a lying, fraud committing addict...but what do you think he's *actually* going to feel about that?

This is where we come back to the concept of not expecting them to have reasonable reactions. Your father is highly likely to defend her and stick with her, and it's his right to do so. Unfortunately, her addiction is not going to go away, not without long term, intensive intervention and high motivation on her part. And assuming her addiction sticks around, your dad isn't likely to leave her.

So sum of probabilities is that she never gets better and he doesn't leave her, and you trying, and failing, to "save" him just turns you into the bad guy.

I'm glad for you and your family that you know the truth. I imagine it will be a lot easier for people not to get sucked into the victim narrative when everyone knows that the problem is SM's 6 figure crafting habit. So I think it's good, for your own sanity at least, that you now know the truth of what's happening.

But all you can do is share that truth with people who may or may not choose to respond reasonably.

Also, let's slow it down on the thinking of having to save your father from being homeless. I'm Very familiar with that thinking and it doesn't help anything. That's just thinking that helps you justify to yourself being more intrusive than you have any right to be. Besides, you can't stop it, you don't have that power.

But homelessness isn't the next step, racking up credit card debt to the point of bankruptcy is. If you want to be helpful, the best thing you can do is be knowledgeable about bankruptcy so that when the time comes, you know who to refer them to and advise them on what to expect with the process.

After that, yes, it's likely they get to a point that they can't afford their house. All you can do is inform yourself about social supports for low income seniors.

You can't stop this train. You don't have the power to stop either addiction or love. She's an addict and he loves her. That's the reality they've fully embraced for themselves. That's the choice they have made.

Also, one last bit of wisdom: don't assume your father is a totally clueless victim here. Yes, she has lied to him and gaslit him, that's what addicts do. But having been the spouse of an addict, deep down, we know a lot more about their lies than we're willing to admit to ourselves. Sure, addicts lie, but those who enable them lie as well, mostly to themselves.

Prepare yourself for the reality that he very likely has and will always choose to lie to himself to enable her.

ETA: Just FYI Zamboni, I'm back in the trenches with you on this. Remember when I said my parents actually solved a lot of their financial problems? Well it's more that my mom solved a lot of their financial problems and my step dad went along with it, because he's useless with finances. I think I mentioned that they got to a point of being quite stable as long as my step dad keeps working.

Well all that went to shit last week when my mom suffered a massive brain bleed and has lost the entire front left of her brain, so I don't think she'll be managing their finances anymore and now it's up to my stepdad who notoriously doesn't pay bills, and now can't work because he'll be a full time caregiver.

My years of trying to swoop in and help have taught me to just offer support, but back the fuck off trying to solve their problems. I have no idea what level of clusterfuck is in store now that neither have the capacity to manage their affairs, and the more unreliable one is in charge.

All we can do is offer knowledge when they finally ask for it. That's all we can do. We don't have the power or the right to fix anything for them.

[Metalcat]

I don’t know if you can untangle your dad’s “finances” from your step mom’s, or if your dad will believe your analysis. But at least you and your siblings now know the truth, whether your dad will ever believe it.

Not to pick on your language, but OP can't do anything with their dad's finances. Only the dad can do anything with his own finances. Zamboni has no right or power to untangle anything.

I know you didn't mean it that way, but having been through this, I developed the automatic habit of correcting myself whenever I used language that implied that my parents' problem was mine to fix.

[rmorris50]

I’m am amazed they let you go through a deep dive like that. Hopefully the truth gives you some clarity you were looking for.

I learned, and am still learning, you can’t save people from themselves. My mother is in a messy situation and for many years I thought I could help her. But today she knows there’s an open offer for help, and I have a spare first floor room with its own bath. Otherwise I’m out. It’s all I can do for her, make sure she has the basics when shit hits the fan.

But she won’t take me up on it cause she doesn’t want anyone seeing her prescription drug addiction.

Stepping out, letting them go bankrupt, and just helping them make sure they have the basics, if they want that help, is all you can do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zamboni]

Well all that went to shit last week when my mom suffered a massive brain bleed and has lost the entire front left of her brain, so I don't think she'll be managing their finances anymore and now it's up to my stepdad who notoriously doesn't pay bills, and now can't work because he'll be a full time caregiver.

My years of trying to swoop in and help have taught me to just offer support, but back the fuck off trying to solve their problems. I have no idea what level of clusterfuck is in store now that neither have the capacity to manage their affairs, and the more unreliable one is in charge.

All we can do is offer knowledge when they finally ask for it. That's all we can do. We don't have the power or the right to fix anything for them.

Gosh, I'm sorry sorry to read that terrible news, MetalCat. I'm sending good wishes your way for peace as you are affected by this.

I’m am amazed they let you go through a deep dive like that. Hopefully the truth gives you some clarity you were looking for.

I learned, and am still learning, you can’t save people from themselves. My mother is in a messy situation and for many years I thought I could help her. But today she knows there’s an open offer for help, and I have a spare first floor room with its own bath. Otherwise I’m out. It’s all I can do for her, make sure she has the basics when shit hits the fan.

But she won’t take me up on it cause she doesn’t want anyone seeing her prescription drug addiction.

Stepping out, letting them go bankrupt, and just helping them make sure they have the basics, if they want that help, is all you can do.

Well, they let me and didn't let me at the same time, if that makes sense.

Dad said "yes, please do the deep dive. I think a really detailed look at a month or two of our expenses would be helpful." He is quite sincere.

SM wants everyone to believe her stories, and so she pretended to play along and tried sending me a couple of documents with nearly no information claiming she was cooperating. I pushed back, lovingly. Then she tried again and again, different twists. Single page spreadsheets of some truth and some made up story. And lots and lots of omission. I have their financial planner friend on my side as well, so we were both able to push back with "this is great, thank you for sending! But we still need this and this and this."

Finally, one day when I was visiting, she made this big show to my Dad of how she was going to let me on her computer and show me everything. She had me sit next to her while she clicked through stuff. It's almost like dealing with a child, though, in a way. She knew I was coming a few days before and she had most of the information hidden or deleted, of course, and so she was very cheerful about showing me things, claiming she really did want help. It was a bunch of duper's delight, in hindsight.

But she's 75. And overconfident. And not a rocket scientist.

And I am a rocket scientist. Literally.

So I said, "Wow, thank you so much! This is all so complicated and I'm a little slow. You are just so quick! and going so fast . . .  you must really know a lot about using computers! Can I look through this for awhile on my own?"

"Oh, of course, Zamboni! Thank you so much! We are so glad you are here."

Uh huh.

[Metalcat]

Lol! Classic.

[Omy]

Wow.

Unless someone in your family has serious money, there's no way to cover an annual shortfall of $120k. And giving them any more money is literally flushing it down the toilet. Hopefully that info will help you and your siblings tune out the desperate cries from SM.

The most I would do is present the info unemotionally (shortfall, categories of spending) and let them know that your advice is to declare bankruptcy since there's no way the family can cover that amount of shortfall for them.

The problem with even doing this much is that they will probably hate you for it and may even cut off communication. My SM barely talks to me since I mentioned to my Dad (years ago) that she should contribute to their household expenses every month. They were living off his pension (while she saved her millions for her kids and her travel.)

It's very important to figure out your boundaries and to stick to them. As long as they stay together and SM refuses to change her ways, there's really no way to help your Dad out of this mess.

[Zamboni]

I don’t know if you can untangle your dad’s “finances” from your step mom’s, or if your dad will believe your analysis. But at least you and your siblings now know the truth, whether your dad will ever believe it.

Yes, us knowing the truth has been important. My sister lost some sleep and had some nightmares after I showed her a couple of things. My brother went off the deep end, but my sister pulled him out, thankfully. It turns out that he really, really, really doesn't like being lied to, and some of the lies were very specific and very manipulative. Sister and I seem to take being lied to more in stride I guess.

I'll talk to my Dad. "Untangling" is never going to happen if he has any say in the matter. One of my concerns is that she is only staying with him as long as he can provide income, and that she may bale when he gets to where he can't work, which again would break his heart. Her son has said some things to me to make me think she has mentioned that possibility to him.

[Villanelle]

Eek.  Well, I'm glad you at least have a full picture.  That's never a bad thing.

What does your dad want most?  Does he want to "fix" this?  (With 'fix' in quotes because there is probably only mitigation at this point, not truly fixing it.)  Or does he want to keep relative peace with SM?  Because it seems very unlikely he can have both.  At this point, with all of the numbers crystal clear and the lies undeniable, I think it is fair to ask him that, and also to make sure he can't pretend (to himself or you) that there have not been clear, intentional lies.

If in the end a grown man decides that continuing on nearly as-is with the woman he loves but who has lied to and manipulated him and his children, and ruined their financial lives, is his #1, priority, we are right back to essentially what every one has been saying--you can't save them from themselves. 

[Metalcat]

I don’t know if you can untangle your dad’s “finances” from your step mom’s, or if your dad will believe your analysis. But at least you and your siblings now know the truth, whether your dad will ever believe it.

Yes, us knowing the truth has been important. My sister lost some sleep and had some nightmares after I showed her a couple of things. My brother went off the deep end, but my sister pulled him out, thankfully. It turns out that he really, really, really doesn't like being lied to, and some of the lies were very specific and very manipulative. Sister and I seem to take being lied to more in stride I guess.

I'll talk to my Dad. "Untangling" is never going to happen if he has any say in the matter. One of my concerns is that she is only staying with him as long as he can provide income, and that she may bale when he gets to where he can't work, which again would break his heart. Her son has said some things to me to make me think she has mentioned that possibility to him.

As much as that sucks for him, that would make things infinitely easier for your family to help him when the time comes.

It's a hell of a lot easier for kids to step up and support or even house a single parent that they love, rather than house and support the parent they love AND their lying addict spouse.

You can't save people from having horrible taste in partners, you can just respect their choices and be there for them if they ever come out the other side.

I actually have a ton of compassion for your father. I've basically been in his exact position with an addict barreling me towards bankruptcy. I'm not saying any of this from a place of "tough love," I'm actually saying it from a place of compassion.

My family trying to help me when I was in that situation actually caused A LOT more strain for me than I could handle at the time. When someone is that deep into their own self-deception, help doesn't register as help, it registers as attack.

Think about just how willfully blind your father has to be to ignore all of the glaring red flags in his marriage. If she's likely to leave him when the income disappears, then she doesn't love him at all, and you can't live with someone who doesn't love you without knowing at your core that that's true.

He's existing under layers and layers of self-deception, rationalizations, excuses, and narratives that he's sold himself on in order to keep faith in this dumpster fire of a marriage he's in.

You're not going to lift the layers and layers of dirty carpet with one session of facts and numbers.

He's not stupid. There's a reason he's completely avoided anything to do with their finances and it's not just that she convinced him to let her take over. It's also highly likely that deep down he knows he has to stay out of it in order to let her keep up her bullshit.

He's most certainly a victim of her lies and bullshit, and contrary to how it sounds, I'm not blaming the victim here. But I am trying to prepare you for how brutal the level of self-deception is for people in these types of situations, and just how hard it is to help them.

The human mind's capacity to rationalize is truly astounding.

When I finally left my ex, it was like a vice released from my brain and suddenly I could see certain things as obvious lies that I had believed for years. It was like night and day, things that were so obvious became obvious, and that when I realized that deep down I had always known them, I had just blocked out that knowledge.

I guarantee there are obvious truths that your dad is just blocking, and facts aren't going to unblock them.

[Villanelle]

On one hand, it seems like getting a full picture is some kind of relief or easing for you, so I'm glad it happened.

OTOH, it changes nothing.  Your dad already knew they had no money, and as Mcat has pointed out, he certainly knew that things were not quite as they presented.  He choose denial.  He will likely still choose denial and when you try to get him to stop denying, you make that harder to do.  But the result of that conflict is very unlikely to be him changing anything meaningful; it will be him resenting you o or at least feeling so uncomfortable or ashamed of his failure to accept reality and act that he will just step back.

They have no money.  Even if she stops buying yarn (or whatever it actually is), they still have no money.  They likely can't even afford to service their debt, much less afford a lifestyle that they are willing to life.  So what has changed?  You've proven what you and they already know, which is that they are in a deep hole.

It sounds like your dad will always choose your SM. That's his right.  You can't save him from that choice.  No matter how thorough and clear your spreadsheet, you can't save him from choosing her when it comes down to it. 

If your dad told you tomorrow that getting out of this was the #1 priority in his life, even if that meant losing SM, what would you do?  And if he tells you, "yes, of course this is super important, but SM won't sell the house and cancel the insurance and it's not reasonable for her to give up knitting entirely plus we do have high medical bills [even if they don't] and the mortgage and...." then what will you do? 

You dad is in a shit situation.  Yes, much of it is of his own making.  But that also means it has been, and to a large extent still is, under his control.  If he then chooses not to use that control, that's his choice to make.  You can see the futility and stupidity in it, but unless and until he's ready to truly address this, even with whatever that means for SM, it all means pretty much nothing. 

I think in your shoes, once he inevitably fails to commit to and follow through on the drastic overhaul of everything (and likely moving and filing for bankruptcy, among other things), I'd tell him that if he gets serious, I'm there to help, but until he does all the things required to right this ship (which means trading the ship for a dinghy, and perhaps bing a single passenger on that boat), all I can do is wish him luck because I can't make numbers mean something other than what they mean. 

he's in a tough spot.  But if he doesn't want out, then he's really no different than the addict.  In fact, in some ways you could probably frame it as her being addicted to spending and 'knitting' and him being addicted to denial and her.  And you can't rationalize an addict--either your SM or your dad--out of their addiction.

[former player]

You have done amazingly well, getting access to the information and working your way through it.  And also in being part of a team with your brother and sister that can support each other and no longer fall for SM's bullshit.

I'm sorry that what you have found out is what was expected.

I think you said that your father is not reading any more?  That means that you have to present your findings to him in person.  Your SM is probably going to insist on you doing it to both of them together.  I would suggest that you just present the bare facts: this is the value of your assets, this is the amount of your debts, this is your income, this is your expenditure, these are the main categories of expenditure.

And then you say "This is as much as I can do for you.  You two together are the only ones  who can decide what you are going to do about it.  I'll leave you to discuss it."

And you leave.  If pressed you can say "there may be debt services you can get in touch with that can help".  If pressed further you say "brother, sister and I love you but it isn't in our power to help you financially".

And that is it.

I'm sorry.

[wenchsenior]

God, OP, that is brutal. I'm just adding to the chorus of voices here. Having been through the wringer with an addict parent, the boundary setting must be absolutely clear and stuck to, or you will keep getting roped into a situation that you simply can't fix. Over and over and over.

 

[okits]

I’m so sorry for what you’ve found out, Zamboni.  What a terrible situation. 

So sum of probabilities is that she never gets better and he doesn't leave her, and you trying, and failing, to "save" him just turns you into the bad guy.

Zamboni, to preserve your relationship with your dad and to be able to really help him if he ever gets to the starving-homeless-alone-dependent stage, please consider: you could tell them their situation is too complex for you to handle and they need a professional.  “If SM couldn’t figure it out then it must be really complicated, right?  I don’t have a solution.  You need an expert who does this for a living.”  Then someone who is not family and paid to do this can be the villain delivering the message.

Because looking at the situation, how are you really going to prevent any of the bad things happening?  You aren’t.  Salvage what you can, which is the family relationship.  And if your SM will split the minute the money runs out, it’s better for your dad to know that sooner than later.

[Zamboni]

I’m so sorry for what you’ve found out, Zamboni.  What a terrible situation. 

So sum of probabilities is that she never gets better and he doesn't leave her, and you trying, and failing, to "save" him just turns you into the bad guy.

Zamboni, to preserve your relationship with your dad and to be able to really help him if he ever gets to the starving-homeless-alone-dependent stage, please consider: you could tell them their situation is too complex for you to handle and they need a professional.  “If SM couldn’t figure it out then it must be really complicated, right?  I don’t have a solution.  You need an expert who does this for a living.”  Then someone who is not family and paid to do this can be the villain delivering the message.

Because looking at the situation, how are you really going to prevent any of the bad things happening?  You aren’t.  Salvage what you can, which is the family relationship.  And if your SM will split the minute the money runs out, it’s better for your dad to know that sooner than later.

Thanks, everyone, for your kind words. Also, your advice along the way here has really, really helped me.

This seems like a good plan. I think I am indeed going to go the route of just telling my Dad that I am not a professional in this area and they need better help and advice that I can offer. Because I am sure he will go down with the ship if/when it comes to that. He is quite old, though, and hasn't been in great health for years, so maybe he will leave this earth in debt up to his eyeballs but blissfully feigning ignorance.

They already have a friend who can fill that role. I don't think they will vilify him. He has spent a career counseling people in this exact situation. Some people actually take his advice and cut up their cards . . . I don't think she will, though.

I had a chat with SM's son about it today. He seems to kind of already know she has a problem. He does have a much longer history with her than I do . . . and there was the previous bankruptcy. I gave him the big picture gist of it with few details and he appreciated the little bit info I gave him and my advice . . . it seems like he wanted someone else to step in and tell him not to give her any money. He doesn't have a lot extra, and perhaps I have freed him of feeling guilt about not giving it to her?

[RWD]

It didn't matter that I avoided months with travel or holiday shopping: even in their "lower spending" months the spending was more than twice as much as they bring home. Only counting their more "frugal" months, their annual spend rate was $160K last year. If one looks at the actual picture and includes things like vacations and home repairs, then their annual spend rate was more like $200K last year. It was jaw dropping for me.

Holy shit...

Edited to add: Gah! How do you put a line through text on this board?!

With square bracket s tags. Example: have to

Code: [Select]

[s]have to[/s]
If you don't want to type the bracket tags manually you can quickly add those tags by selecting the text you want to strike through and clicking the S with a line through it button.

[Finances_With_Purpose]

Wow. 

I stopped by for all the same reasons that people watch moving dumpster fires...and also because I have a lot of compassion for those struggling with immediate family who are doing horrible things.  I've lived through some similar awfulness and helped others with these sorts of things (and may still be dealing with one or more such situation even now), and these are some of the hardest things in life.  You want to trust family.  You want to believe them.  You want to be loyal to them.

But sometimes you can't.  Because they don't. 

You can't give someone light by lighting yourself on fire. 

I'm guessing you don't have kids, because I find that kids make it easier: you can put in all kinds of boundaries to protect yourself from insanity once you have kids who depend fully upon you.  I suggest that you do the same, and look out for yourself here. 

My advice to you:
1.  @former player is spot on that you need to run, not walk, but run from this situation.  There's actual fraud and possible elder abuse here - you're seeing all the red flags. 
2.  Because of that, report it to APS and get some distance from it.  That way, you did your part, and you can't as easily be blamed for it or sued/prosecuted over it when that time comes.  You need as much distance as you can get. 

Pro tip: banks and insurance companies don't care that you're nice or that you said that this was a bad idea.  Or that you had all of these great intentions. 

Their money was stolen and they'll snag whoever is around to get it back - even if it isn't quite fair in your mind.  So don't put yourself in that place where you're going to get whacked along with your parents.  Treat this like the radioactive toxic crap that it is. 

Stay far, far away from their finances, from discussion of it, from even the bankruptcy thing.  It seems like you're headed there now - great idea pushing the bad-cop/bad news thing to a third-party financial person.  But seriously: embrace some distance here and make this topic a non-starter at all times.  That's the single best thing you can do for yourself here. 

3.  ACTIONS are the currency of the realm.  ACTIONS have value.  Words do not.  You know that, at some level, but you need to learn to LIVE that. 

You don't keep trusting a liar.  People will lie, and lie, and lie again.  You've been lied to repeatedly here, yet you - out of a desire to help - keep putting yourself right back into places where you listen to words and lies as though those words matter. 

To be fair, it's naturally hard to ignore words - our ears want to listen.  And that's even truer when dealing with a parent who has loved you.  You want to believe.  You'd like to believe.  Deep within you, you still want to believe that these loved ones are honest/reasonable/will benefit from your relationship.  So you believe that little lie, which then sets you up for the real whoppers. 

That's also why you've had a hard time keeping your boundaries: you've bought into the premise, which is a lie (the lie that you can help here or do something that they like or that will actually benefit them).  You've bought into the lie that you're reasonable, so you can help. 

Having done that, you're now going to buy into the bigger lies more easily.  By the way, manipulative people can sense that.  That's why SM keeps engaging with you, incidentally - she can smell that you're able to be manipulated, even if she hasn't always had it go exactly as she wants.  It sounds like you've picked up on this dynamic as well. 

But ACTIONS tell you otherwise--they negate the words here.  These folks have lied to you repeatedly and will keep doing so.  ACTIONS are what matter - ONLY actions.  Listen to the actions.  They lie.  They keep lying.  They're going to lie again.  They're probably lying now - who knows what the full depth of the situation is.  You think you know, and you still probably don't know the whole of it.  Just rest assured of that: the actions here are screaming that at you.  You're in a worse situation than you know, and it's only getting worse from here forward, especially if you keep engaging in it. 

Your only defense here is to NOT ENGAGE in words about this - don't be lied to.  Don't put yourself in a position where you're having conversations with them about any of it.  Those are all just ways to get taken advantage of.  They know that - your SM senses it - so they're going to play along and rope you in again.  It's a rope-a-dope strategy.  They need help, so you come in, then they tire you out until they squeeze cash/credit/something of value out of you. 

It's not that different from the tactics that scammers consciously employ, especially the confidence grifters: they get you hooked into a premise and keep a relationship until they finally find a way to manipulate that into money.  It's just a question of how and how long it takes. 

Also, it's not even conscious: this is more of a learned behavior pattern.  Your SM clearly employs it, and your dad clearly enables it, which means he's OK with it and in on it - as others said, probably more than you would believe or want to believe.  He knows SM is lying to and manipulating you, and he has to be OK with it because he wants to keep her, so he stays quiet. 

--

I love that you're on this thread, but I'm going to suggest something else: get a couple of wise friends there who know you really well and listen to their advice.  Let them dictate what involvement you have here.  Learn that you can't trust yourself with your dad/SM yet, and let your friends - who care about you - help protect you from this situation. 

A little humility is a real virtue, and one that'll reap real dividends here. 

Plus, I'll share another fact: helping people who don't want/need that help is actually hurting them. 

You're giving them false hope of a false future and helping them prolong the fantasy the more you engage.  You don't want to be an obstacle to them, so stay the hell away from it all. 

Finally, I was going to observe something that seemed obvious/very likely to me, but I see that you've already picked up on it: SM is very likely to ditch your dad when the money runs out.  She's done it before.  And she's still an addict.  You can't do a thing about it, nor are you likely to do anything but anger your father at this point if you talk about it, plus, it won't help. 

I wish I had great solutions for you, but this is hard precisely because these folks are committing to their own self-destruction in ways that aren't solvable.  It probably won't be solvable even if/when you and they think that they have hit rock bottom; it's a long journey which SM may never even engage in. 

You need to practice disengaging now for when it gets a little harder as they suffer more from their own decisions, and your desire to step in kicks up again.  Stay away from it. 

Finally, I'll add one last parting thought: words don't matter.  Actions do.  Your words don't matter to them either.  In other words, you're absolutely wasting your time with talks and come-to-Jesus meetings.  It's a giant waste of time.  Their actions are committing them to a path, and no amount of your words is likely to change any of that or do anything other than make the situation worse by feeding into it. 

Sure, they'll talk to you and engage with you - because they need and want you to bail them out - but their actions continue telling you that this is all just preventing them from hitting bottom. 

Finally, here's a book suggestion that I have found helpful - a book on boundaries. 

--

I really wish you the best with this.  (I wish that I didn't have more than my fair share of experience dealing with manipulative, deceptive people to draw upon - so I feel your pain.)  I can see that you're moving the right way on things, and my only hope is that maybe something here can help nudge you towards truth a little faster and help keep you out of that unholy mess.  It's a hard, awful thing when family make such godawful life decisions and it hurts everyone around them, so I'm sorry that you're even having to deal with any of this.  That's not how it's supposed to be.  Instead, it's a pain to deal with. 

If my experience is any guide, you'll at least get really good at dealing with difficult situations and manipulative behavior. 

I'll say some prayers for you. 

[Metalcat]

YES!!!

There is a VERY good chance that if you confront them with the facts as you currently understand them, they may say ALL the right things in response.

They could go off on you right away, maybe, but the bigger probability is that they respond with all the right words.

It's a trick.

SM knows what's coming, so she'll probably have prepared a response and primed your dad for it. She'll systematically work on him to discredit everything you say before and after you say it all the while making it sound like she's listening to you.

Reasonable people fall for lies very easily when those lies are totally reasonable statements. That's why it's sooo easy for unreasonable people to lie. They just have to say things that actually make sense in that context, and people will believe them, because they're saying reasonable things.

But it's a trick.