Author Topic: Playing with FIRE documentary  (Read 42276 times)

Zikoris

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2019, 11:22:12 PM »
Someone in the Vancouver ChooseFI group tried to organize a screening here, and was told they can't because it's only being screened in the US right now. So for the time being, it seems to be "fuck Canadians". So that's kind of shitty.

@Zikoris I've been thinking about trying to get it screened at the Pickford in Bellingham.  it would be the perfect venue... do you think your group would be interested in traveling south to view the film?

The logistics would probably not work out too well since it would likely be on a weekday and most of us are unfortunately not retired yet - and I, for one, have completely tapped out my time off work with my vacations so far this year. A lot of us also don't drive, though carpooling might work?

v8rx7guy

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2019, 11:24:15 PM »
Someone in the Vancouver ChooseFI group tried to organize a screening here, and was told they can't because it's only being screened in the US right now. So for the time being, it seems to be "fuck Canadians". So that's kind of shitty.

@Zikoris I've been thinking about trying to get it screened at the Pickford in Bellingham.  it would be the perfect venue... do you think your group would be interested in traveling south to view the film?

The logistics would probably not work out too well since it would likely be on a weekday and most of us are unfortunately not retired yet - and I, for one, have completely tapped out my time off work with my vacations so far this year. A lot of us also don't drive, though carpooling might work?

Ok, well it was just a thought.  I don't think I could round up the minimum number of viewers to make it happen by myself.   Maybe I'll just have to wait until it's on Netflix!

MarciaB

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2019, 09:06:16 AM »
I saw it last night in Vancouver, WA. It was a one-off showing and they had pre-sold over 100 tickets.

Sadly, I agree with HBFIRE who gave it a C+. I really wanted to like it more! And there are charming and funny moments in it, especially with Taylor (the wife of the main couple).

All in all though, if I were new to the idea of Fire I would be confused. Because it seemed like Fire was all about quitting your job. And apparently you have to move from a community you love, sell your car and move in with your parents to do that? Why couldn't they have started with swapping the expensive leased car for a used one, and slashing their $2000/month food bill? Maybe downsize their house...?? This made no sense to me, and if I were a newbie I would run screaming from this thinking it was just for outliers.

And why move...to Bend, Oregon?? It's a (wonderful) trendy up and coming community with housing prices rising as fast as those in Portland! The median home price (according to Zillow, so take it for what it's worth) is $379,900. If your one breadwinner has a work-from-home job...wouldn't you pick somewhere with a lower cost of living?

The documentary had lots of small moments with bloggers from the Fire community including Tanja Hester. She would have been the perfect person to speak to the idea that Fire isn't just about quitting your job (her book Work Optional talks in depth about Fire being about financial freedom and having unlimited choices - work if you want and don't if you don't). But nope, her 15 seconds weren't about this. MMM/Pete talked about happiness, but it sort of seemed like they steered you to the idea that being frugal was his idea of happiness.

I don't know. It seemed almost like a disservice somehow. I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of other viewers - maybe I missed the point?

Daniel

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2019, 09:21:31 AM »
Just saw a screening last night as well. I enjoyed it quite a bit, but with few expectations going in.

To respond to a criticism has been brought up a few times, the movie definitely didn't go deep into the math of FIRE, but I do feel like it had one math concept to get across and that it did a good job with that: the more you save, the earlier you won't need to work any more. It seemed like all the "mathy" parts of the movie were driving home that point, from the conversation with the Mad Fientist at the beginning to the constant updates on their savings rate. This seems inline with the way many are introduced to this community, through "The Shocking Simple Math behind Early Retirement." I thought it was a good choice, and the only thing that could have made it slightly clearer is by going directly from decisions they made (live with parents, buy the house by the road) to savings rate to years to FI.

I personally enjoyed the deeper look into the emotional side of things, it felt like reading a good journal on this very forum. It is primarily a story about a family making big changes and second a look into the FIRE movement.

I also laughed when they ended up in Bend. I'm sure living in SoCal previously they just associated Bend with retirement since many people around here move there (or at least to that part of the country) when they retire...

Zikoris

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #54 on: July 04, 2019, 11:33:04 AM »
I'm way too deep down the FIRE hole to have any sort of unbiased outsider perspective, but I have to wonder if the approach they took might be extremely misleading to "outsiders", because the approach they took was basically nothing like how people actually do it. Like, I know a lot of people FIREd or pursuing it, and virtually none of them were like "Okay, step one, move in with Mom". Reality for most people would be more like:

- "Step one, track my spending to the penny. Holy shit, I'm spending a fortune on eating out, time to start meal planning and figuring out how to grocery shop and cook properly."

- "Hey, what if I got rid of television and replaced it with other things? Holy shit, my quality of life just improved a ton, I'm discovering all these new hiking trails, meeting new friends, and getting in shape, this is awesome".

- "Wow, I made a bunch of small changes that not only didn't cause any suffering, they improved my life and happiness substantially, and also got my savings rate up over 50% almost effortlessly. Now that my finances are automated, I can just kick back and focus on enjoying life for 10 years while my money compounds, and wake up one day with enough money to never need to work again."

As far as I'm concerned, if anything about this process is hard, you're doing it wrong.

Daisy

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2019, 07:10:26 PM »
The South Florida showing is this Monday and is sold out!

fattest_foot

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2019, 04:19:02 PM »
So I remember about a year ago I started to check when this would finally get released. It kept getting pushed back, until around March or April and it finally sounded like people would be able to watch it.

Except it was only limited screenings, essentially for people who live near a major metropolitan area.

I'm not sure if anyone has any insider information, but is this thing ever going to get a broad release? Or should I just write it off as a documentary that only reaches 10,000 or so people?

solon

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2019, 04:23:08 PM »
Yeah, I'm a little annoyed too. RELEASE THE MOVIE ALREADY!

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2019, 04:27:15 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

SwordGuy

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2019, 05:22:02 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

Because if you spend everything you make there's nothing left over to invest?

I know that's pretty darn obvious and self-evident -- but then again -- a whole lot of Americans can't seem to figure it out.

EngagedToFIRE

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2019, 05:29:18 PM »
The South Florida showing is this Monday and is sold out!

Shoot!!! I totally missed this.  There is another screening Sept 9th in Miami, too bad I'm out of town

HBFIRE

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2019, 06:22:15 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

Agreed, I actually think the income side of it is the fastest way to move the needle with a ton of opportunity. 

Zikoris

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2019, 08:34:55 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

Well, the obvious answer would seem to be that increasing income is so HIGHLY dependent on the individual's specific circumstances, skills, disposition, ability level, etc, such that it would be pretty useless to people not in that situation. Think about it. An accountant talking about a good career trajectory to maximize earnings in that specific field is useless to anyone who isn't either already an accountant or looking to become one, and a FIRE piece focusing on how to become a better accountant would just come across as bizarre and barely even related to FIRE. There are just too many different career paths for that sort of focus to be at all widely applicable, whereas theoretically anyone can be make their own lunch and stop buying crap they can't afford and don't need.

FIRE media does seem to frequently include investing or side hustle discussion, so it's not like income talk is entirely absent.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2019, 10:28:21 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

Well, the obvious answer would seem to be that increasing income is so HIGHLY dependent on the individual's specific circumstances, skills, disposition, ability level, etc, such that it would be pretty useless to people not in that situation. Think about it. An accountant talking about a good career trajectory to maximize earnings in that specific field is useless to anyone who isn't either already an accountant or looking to become one, and a FIRE piece focusing on how to become a better accountant would just come across as bizarre and barely even related to FIRE. There are just too many different career paths for that sort of focus to be at all widely applicable, whereas theoretically anyone can be make their own lunch and stop buying crap they can't afford and don't need.

FIRE media does seem to frequently include investing or side hustle discussion, so it's not like income talk is entirely absent.

Yes, but the fact that coupon cutting/emphasis on frugality is the most universally applicable method of increasing your savings rate doesn't mean that it should be the only, or even the main, component of FIRE depictions in "outside" media - yet it invariably is. Sure, an accountant is only applicable to other professionals. But if you are going to interview a handful of people, maybe 1 or 2 could be professionals with a side hustle, or someone who can talk about investments and trust funds and tax mitigation or side hustles or an own business. The lack of emphasis on this threatens to distort the view of the broader community.

Zikoris

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2019, 11:27:45 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

Well, the obvious answer would seem to be that increasing income is so HIGHLY dependent on the individual's specific circumstances, skills, disposition, ability level, etc, such that it would be pretty useless to people not in that situation. Think about it. An accountant talking about a good career trajectory to maximize earnings in that specific field is useless to anyone who isn't either already an accountant or looking to become one, and a FIRE piece focusing on how to become a better accountant would just come across as bizarre and barely even related to FIRE. There are just too many different career paths for that sort of focus to be at all widely applicable, whereas theoretically anyone can be make their own lunch and stop buying crap they can't afford and don't need.

FIRE media does seem to frequently include investing or side hustle discussion, so it's not like income talk is entirely absent.

Yes, but the fact that coupon cutting/emphasis on frugality is the most universally applicable method of increasing your savings rate doesn't mean that it should be the only, or even the main, component of FIRE depictions in "outside" media - yet it invariably is. Sure, an accountant is only applicable to other professionals. But if you are going to interview a handful of people, maybe 1 or 2 could be professionals with a side hustle, or someone who can talk about investments and trust funds and tax mitigation or side hustles or an own business. The lack of emphasis on this threatens to distort the view of the broader community.

I think you're greatly overestimating the availability of FIRE people a) exist in any one area and b) are willing to go public and talk about this stuff - I really don't think journalists have enough options to pick and choose for the perfect mix of life choices, especially if they're trying to stay relatively local. You pretty much have to read lots of different FIRE pieces to get a more rounded view. And of course, the vast majority of people's eyes glaze over reading about investments, trust funds, and tax mitigation - people like reading about actual interesting lifestyle stuff. Nobody wants to watch a person poking around at a spreadsheet.

DadJokes

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2019, 05:45:52 AM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

Well, the obvious answer would seem to be that increasing income is so HIGHLY dependent on the individual's specific circumstances, skills, disposition, ability level, etc, such that it would be pretty useless to people not in that situation. Think about it. An accountant talking about a good career trajectory to maximize earnings in that specific field is useless to anyone who isn't either already an accountant or looking to become one, and a FIRE piece focusing on how to become a better accountant would just come across as bizarre and barely even related to FIRE. There are just too many different career paths for that sort of focus to be at all widely applicable, whereas theoretically anyone can be make their own lunch and stop buying crap they can't afford and don't need.

FIRE media does seem to frequently include investing or side hustle discussion, so it's not like income talk is entirely absent.

Yes, but the fact that coupon cutting/emphasis on frugality is the most universally applicable method of increasing your savings rate doesn't mean that it should be the only, or even the main, component of FIRE depictions in "outside" media - yet it invariably is. Sure, an accountant is only applicable to other professionals. But if you are going to interview a handful of people, maybe 1 or 2 could be professionals with a side hustle, or someone who can talk about investments and trust funds and tax mitigation or side hustles or an own business. The lack of emphasis on this threatens to distort the view of the broader community.

The FIRE movement isn't aimed at low income people. It's aimed at middle class spendypants who already make a decent amount of money. If you want to increase income, there are other places to look.

Even then, there are plenty of people in the community who talk about ways to increase income. Alan Donegan has been on a lot of different podcasts talking about starting your own business. Paula Pant frequently talks about investing in real estate.

Malcat

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2019, 05:59:45 AM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

I honestly don't see this, especially since one of the main outside criticisms of the FIRE community is that it seems to be overrepresented by high income people.

MMM is by far the best known public figure of FIRE and he doesn't talk about cutting coupons. He just emphasizes that it's the savings rate that matters.

I really, really don't see this over emphasis on small expense cutting over increasing income that you do, unless we're talking about the ERE crowd, but they're a particular brand of FI folk, and clearly distinguished as such.

As I've said before, the tips and tricks for frugality tend to be shared more because they are universal to all of us, but personal career trajectories are more specified.

Income is also irrelevant until someone has their spending under control. So the spending side really is the first priority, and it takes time and experimentation to get that ideal spending level right so that it's not too hedonistic but also not too restrictive.

Even though there is actually a HUGE emphasis here on making more money, it's not what will get press because there is a huge pressure in society to make more money, so it's not really all that relevant. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is out there wanting to make more money, but they're also spending it all.

The message of "spend less and be happier" is what gets the focus because it's the message that's radically different. Any idiot knows that if they make more money, they will have more money. Meanwhile it's shocking to people that they can spend less of their money and actually be happier.

That said, even with reducing wasteful spending as a main focus, an ENORMOUS number of people in the community put A LOT of focus on side hustles, career hacking, etc.
If you aren't seeing it, I really don't know what you are reading.

Malcat

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2019, 06:05:23 AM »
Re: the documentary

I haven't seen it, but I did just read an article about FIRE that was critical about the lifestyle and heavily featured the couple who made the documentary.

They talked all about how frugality was too hard and "unrealistic" and how they are now happy saving a more reasonable 10% of their income and actually enjoying their lives.

If that's the outcome then their documentary should be called "Doing FIRE Wrong: a user's guide to fucking up frugality".

fattest_foot

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2019, 08:23:29 AM »
Re: the documentary

I haven't seen it, but I did just read an article about FIRE that was critical about the lifestyle and heavily featured the couple who made the documentary.

They talked all about how frugality was too hard and "unrealistic" and how they are now happy saving a more reasonable 10% of their income and actually enjoying their lives.

If that's the outcome then their documentary should be called "Doing FIRE Wrong: a user's guide to fucking up frugality".

That's pretty disappointing. And one of the things I was disappointed to hear about with the documentary. It sounded from people who saw it that they focused on a couple who just discovered the FIRE movement and were in the very early stages (first year or so?).

Seems like it would've been more worthwhile to focus on a couple who were in the final few years. You know, people who it "worked" for already.

It also bothered me because it seemed like in the trailer it was more about interviewing the "gurus" of the movement and presenting everything, but that the reality was that was a very small portion and the couple was the bulk of the movie.

bbates728

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2019, 08:37:29 AM »
Re: the documentary

I haven't seen it, but I did just read an article about FIRE that was critical about the lifestyle and heavily featured the couple who made the documentary.

They talked all about how frugality was too hard and "unrealistic" and how they are now happy saving a more reasonable 10% of their income and actually enjoying their lives.

If that's the outcome then their documentary should be called "Doing FIRE Wrong: a user's guide to fucking up frugality".

So Scott and Taylor have left the movement? That is too bad. Would you mind sharing the article? My google skills have failed me.

Malcat

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2019, 08:50:54 AM »
Re: the documentary

I haven't seen it, but I did just read an article about FIRE that was critical about the lifestyle and heavily featured the couple who made the documentary.

They talked all about how frugality was too hard and "unrealistic" and how they are now happy saving a more reasonable 10% of their income and actually enjoying their lives.

If that's the outcome then their documentary should be called "Doing FIRE Wrong: a user's guide to fucking up frugality".

So Scott and Taylor have left the movement? That is too bad. Would you mind sharing the article? My google skills have failed me.

I can't find it either, but it wasn't some obscure publication, it was a pretty mainstream online news source if I recall.

I was pretty surprised when I read it. It really threw the movement under the bus by describing higher savings rates as unrealistic and unable to sustain happiness.

10% is extremely low, and the article made it sound like they have absolutely no interest in even trying to save more than that.

That could have been the article writers, and not so much what they actually said, but it was pretty ridiculous.

mschaus

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2019, 10:50:08 AM »
So Scott and Taylor have left the movement? That is too bad. Would you mind sharing the article? My google skills have failed me.

I can't find it either, but it wasn't some obscure publication, it was a pretty mainstream online news source if I recall.

I was pretty surprised when I read it. It really threw the movement under the bus by describing higher savings rates as unrealistic and unable to sustain happiness.

10% is extremely low, and the article made it sound like they have absolutely no interest in even trying to save more than that.

That could have been the article writers, and not so much what they actually said, but it was pretty ridiculous.

This is really interesting, would be great to find the article. I tried for 5 mins and couldn’t – that’s 3 of us so far, so who knows if it was taken down or something.

I read the book, which is a quick way to get their story since the movie isn’t widely available. The early parts had a lot of cringe-worthy misconceptions, which I chalked up to them learning (but I felt bad for the average person who drops the book 1/4 of the way through). Unfortunately, by the end of the book they hadn’t corrected some of those unfortunate misconceptions (such as that renting is throwing money away).

They ended up stretching their finances to buy a nicer house than they had planned in a beautiful town (Bend), which is fine and dandy. But all along the attitude wasn’t really “yeah let’s do what’s necessary to accomplish our goals”, it was more like “Are you sure? Me neither. I can’t believe I’m being deprived of a BMW”. So I wouldn’t be shocked if they completed their book and documentary projects and went back business as usual.

Malcat

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2019, 11:00:53 AM »
^ yeah, I tried finding it, but couldn't remember any particular buzz words in the article title and there are just way too many entries about them to pare down the search.


Bloop Bloop

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2019, 05:54:58 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is why so many of the FIRE articles/media concentrate on the frugality side of FIRE, when the optimisation/income boosting side of FIRE (side hustles, entrepreneurship, tax mitigation, investing, getting a promotion) is just as important. It's really unbalanced.

I honestly don't see this, especially since one of the main outside criticisms of the FIRE community is that it seems to be overrepresented by high income people.

MMM is by far the best known public figure of FIRE and he doesn't talk about cutting coupons. He just emphasizes that it's the savings rate that matters.

I really, really don't see this over emphasis on small expense cutting over increasing income that you do, unless we're talking about the ERE crowd, but they're a particular brand of FI folk, and clearly distinguished as such.

As I've said before, the tips and tricks for frugality tend to be shared more because they are universal to all of us, but personal career trajectories are more specified.

Income is also irrelevant until someone has their spending under control. So the spending side really is the first priority, and it takes time and experimentation to get that ideal spending level right so that it's not too hedonistic but also not too restrictive.

Even though there is actually a HUGE emphasis here on making more money, it's not what will get press because there is a huge pressure in society to make more money, so it's not really all that relevant. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry is out there wanting to make more money, but they're also spending it all.

The message of "spend less and be happier" is what gets the focus because it's the message that's radically different. Any idiot knows that if they make more money, they will have more money. Meanwhile it's shocking to people that they can spend less of their money and actually be happier.

That said, even with reducing wasteful spending as a main focus, an ENORMOUS number of people in the community put A LOT of focus on side hustles, career hacking, etc.
If you aren't seeing it, I really don't know what you are reading.

I was referring to the documentary, and to recent media such as The Guardian article (which interviewed a whole bunch of people heavily tilted towards the frugality side of the spectrum).

These forums have a good balance between earning more and spending less. If anything they might tilt towards the former. But outside articles and media heavily tilt towards the latter. It misrepresents the community to say that frugality is the only, or even the defining, feature. Because, as we know, FIRE isn't about frugality. It's about conscious and well-directed spending and earning.

HBFIRE

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2019, 06:39:02 PM »
^ yeah, I tried finding it, but couldn't remember any particular buzz words in the article title and there are just way too many entries about them to pare down the search.

Are you sure the article wasn't referring to their initial savings rate before creating the film?  It was 10%.  I highly doubt they'd publicly admit to leaving the "movement" and reducing their savings rate back to where it was.  That would greatly diminish the film and book's credibility and hence negatively impact their revenues.  I think they're too business savvy for that.

Malcat

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2019, 07:07:50 PM »
^ yeah, I tried finding it, but couldn't remember any particular buzz words in the article title and there are just way too many entries about them to pare down the search.

Are you sure the article wasn't referring to their initial savings rate before creating the film?  It was 10%.  I highly doubt they'd publicly admit to leaving the "movement" and reducing their savings rate back to where it was.  That would greatly diminish the film and book's credibility and hence negatively impact their revenues.  I think they're too business savvy for that.

100% certain that it was a sub 20% savings rate, I can't be certain it was 10% and not 15%, but it was certainly their current savings rate.

BTDretire

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2019, 07:21:06 PM »
I'm sure it's because of national enmity and not because international copyrights are a hard thing for an indie producer to navigate

I prefer to think that they hate Canadians, so get out of here with your logic!

 Ya, and they should stop running around Fl. with their left turn signal on.
 Oh, and stop putting all the condiments on the table into your purse too.
And another thing, don't come to Florida buy your microwave and toaster and bike, stay for 3 months and then return your used stuff to Walmart or Lowes.
 But no problem with Canada or Canadians, I'm sure they would love to show in Canada, except for the logistical problems.
 All in fun :-).

spartana

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #77 on: August 31, 2019, 08:19:17 AM »
That's too bad they threw in the towel. And so early. This is one reason I really think the people who are long term FIREees like MMM should be the focus for the lifestyle as these kind of "FIRE failures" actually harm the idea. It just make the lifestyle seem to restrictive and unfulfilling. Or worse, it makes us look like a bunch of crazies who'll be living in a cardboard box under the bridge and eating cat food if we pursue this path. Next time I hope a movie focuses more on successful long term early retirees, or those who have been living the life to attain FIRE a fairly long time, and less on wannabes.

Or maybe the anti FIRE Suze Ormand types sponsored this just to show how FIRE is impossible and the masses will keep working and spending. Conspircy theory anyone ;-).
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 08:43:24 AM by spartana »

thriftyc

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2019, 03:05:38 PM »
Well, they can go and save their 10% and work forever, I'll keep joyfully saving my 65% until I retire next month.  =-)  And if I get tired of being FIRED, I'll go back to work, or retrain into something else....not the end of the world.

They should post the film on youtube, I'll watch it!

grantmeaname

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #79 on: September 02, 2019, 05:55:54 PM »
It'd be pretty hard to sell to a distributor if they let everyone who was interested see the film for free first...

G-dog

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2019, 06:38:04 PM »
^ yeah, I tried finding it, but couldn't remember any particular buzz words in the article title and there are just way too many entries about them to pare down the search.

Are you sure the article wasn't referring to their initial savings rate before creating the film?  It was 10%.  I highly doubt they'd publicly admit to leaving the "movement" and reducing their savings rate back to where it was.  That would greatly diminish the film and book's credibility and hence negatively impact their revenues.  I think they're too business savvy for that.

100% certain that it was a sub 20% savings rate, I can't be certain it was 10% and not 15%, but it was certainly their current savings rate.

I hope someone can find the article.  I searched for it and learned .... I know the guy’s family! Small world.

reeshau

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2019, 02:43:50 AM »
@Malynn, I don't doubt that you saw what you saw, but it seems strange to cut back when they are trying to launch a podcast as an ongoing venture.  Of course, I haven't seen one, yet...

Malcat

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2019, 05:55:20 PM »
Well, I finally bloody found it and I did read it wrong. It was an article discussing several different FI community members and in the part where they talk about the more "reasonable" savings rate, they're actually talking about a different couple. Correct about the content, but totally wrong about the people.

Oops, sorry guys.

bbates728

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2019, 11:58:00 AM »
Well, I finally bloody found it and I did read it wrong. It was an article discussing several different FI community members and in the part where they talk about the more "reasonable" savings rate, they're actually talking about a different couple. Correct about the content, but totally wrong about the people.

Oops, sorry guys.

Ahh that is good to hear. Thanks Malkynn for doing the sleuthing!

slappy

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2019, 09:36:20 AM »
I'm planning to see this movie next week and I'm excited but nervous. I'm not a fan of the written description that basically does the standard personal finance "people spend money mindlessly and they need to hunker down and get frugal and make huge changes". I'm afraid it might turn people off from the concept. I'm seeing it with my husband and his friend, who are non believers currently, so I guess I will find out.

Greenback Reproduction Specialist

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2019, 09:07:51 PM »
They talked all about how frugality was too hard and "unrealistic" and how they are now happy saving a more reasonable 10% of their income and actually enjoying their lives.

Its not easy, thats for sure, it takes a big "WHY". For us it was a lot of sacrifice, and so far TOTALLY worth it.

Disclaimer:
I have not seen the movie, I'm not sure I will want to watch it.... Things like these that become a weird trendy thing of the year make me sick to watch... I would like my secret cult like group here to stay below the radar ; ).... Lol if we are not careful we might have a documentary in the future about the dark side of the secret society of MMM, members that quietly lurk in the shadows and tug on the string of power  to control the masses!

On the other hand, for the sake of our country and fellow neighbors I would hope some of the frugal/saver/spend less than you make characteristics rub off on people. Its not good to have a culture that has a low savings rate.... Its a good thing Americans in general have great work ethic.


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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2019, 07:32:22 AM »
so..... any way to see this film online yet?
They should just release it behind a paywall site or something if its money they want, whats the hold up here.

jim555

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #87 on: October 25, 2019, 08:02:03 AM »
There is a movie called "Playing with Fire" coming out in November.  Then I looked and see it is about firefighters, so wrong kind of fire.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #88 on: October 25, 2019, 08:08:20 AM »
so..... any way to see this film online yet?
They should just release it behind a paywall site or something if its money they want, whats the hold up here.

There was a tweet that essentially said "soon"

slappy

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #89 on: October 25, 2019, 09:06:18 AM »
so..... any way to see this film online yet?
They should just release it behind a paywall site or something if its money they want, whats the hold up here.

There was a tweet that essentially said "soon"

I'm hoping for next month, so I can use it as christmas gifts. :)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #90 on: October 25, 2019, 09:46:34 AM »
The movie had it's Canadian premiere at CM*TO.

grantmeaname

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #91 on: November 15, 2019, 11:09:02 AM »
Just got an email announcing the release date - next Tuesday, 11/19/19. Should be available for rent or purchase on online video platforms (iTunes, Amazon, etc.)

fattest_foot

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #92 on: November 15, 2019, 11:59:17 AM »
I'll caveat this once again about how I'm not in the entertainment industry, but they seem to be going about this the wrong way...still.

No one who isn't already in the FIRE community is going to pay $5-10 to watch this. Why they didn't sell streaming rights to one of these services is just baffling to me. Sell it whole hog to recoup your costs, make your money off book sales, and move on. You get people watching it who wouldn't otherwise know about it.

Going this route I doubt they make back the $350k it cost them to make it.

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #93 on: November 15, 2019, 12:20:33 PM »
Lifted from another thread, the full Kickstarter update is below. It looks like they WANT to sell it to Netflix and that they plan to do so, but Netflix won't pick it up until it has significant momentum on other platforms. And if Netflix does pick it up in the future, it wouldn't be enough to break even on production costs.

"What's up Kickstarter family?! We've missed you, but luckily time has flown by due to our insane schedule. We've been on the road since May, supporting this film at screenings all over the world.

To date, we've sold over 10,000 theater tickets and played the film in over 100 theaters. Amazing.

I am SO excited to officially inform you, the movie is ready for its digital debut. No, we didn't recently release a John Cena firefighter family comedy. But perhaps we will gross over $12 million because quality is always rewarded fairly... right?!

You can find links to iTunes and Vimeo below, and it will be appearing in the Amazon and Google Play marketplaces as soon as the internets say so. We will send you links to those as well once we have them. (Quick Side Note: iTunes is automatically aggregating a Rotten Tomatoes review from John Cena's garbage family comedy. We've asked them to fix this snafu, which may take a few days. Bastards.)

The film will be available for pre-sale now through November 18th and will be available for immediate rental and purchase on Tuesday, November 19th on both platforms. We are less sure about Amazon and Google Play, but are told they should populate by the 19th as well.

The sales we can muster over the next few weeks will directly affect these platforms’ willingness to promote the film and will influence the potential Netflix deal we've been aiming for, giving us a major shot to launch FIRE into the mainstream consciousness.

We hope this will garner attention for our collective cast and the movement as a whole, and solidify FIRE’s place in the zeitgeist. Also, to reiterate, our goal is to cover our costs with this film, and then immediately try to get as many eyeballs on this as we can, regardless of profits. We believe we have a solid strategy in place to do so.

In the spirit of FIRE itself, we have opted initially to cut out the middleman and go direct-to-consumer. And as an independent project, this will be what eventually breaks through the noise and gets us the attention of the middleman (a.k.a. Netflix). To give you context, we’ve spent $325k to make this film. We netted roughly $90 from you wonderful humans, and $20k on the theater tour after 5 months of work and toil. This digital launch is our best chance of breaking even, as we cannot guarantee a streaming deal (which would likely be around $100k for 2 years, if all goes to plan). iTunes takes a 30% cut, with Google Play and Amazon coming in around the same. Vimeo takes 10%, but the audience potential is much smaller. We also have two price points, with rental costs at $4.99 and download-to-own coming in at $9.99. We wanted to keep the movie price lower than most new films as a gesture to our fellow frugalists and frugalistas. With all the variables, it’s hard to nail down an exact number, but we figure we will need to sell roughly 50-60,000 copies of the film in order to break even.

We hope you will consider helping us promote this film. Rising tides lift all boats. Pre-order sales can help us get on Apple’s radar, heading into our release on the 19th. We have been very careful to ask for favors because we knew this would be the biggest ask we would make. So here is how you can help.

1. If you've seen the film already and enjoyed it, please consider leaving a review on Rotten Tomatoes! This will encourage others to consider a rental or purchase, and differentiate ourselves from John Cena's film... have we entered a different dimension?! https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/playing_with_fire_the_documentary

Also, if you haven't already, a review on our book would be much appreciated. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1608685802/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_BADZDbXWNH9BN

2. Consider buying a copy or two to share with friends and family. We want Apple to know that this is worth promoting!

3. Promote to your social channels and let folks know this project and this movement is worth supporting!

When I found this whole world of FI, my life was completely transformed. I'm sure many of you felt the same way. I believe in this movement because of you. We took on this filmmaking challenge because want to see the world be a more mindful, less wasteful place. I believe the collective effort we’ve all put into this film can help make a dent. Let’s see how far we can take this thing.

- Scott"

DadJokes

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #94 on: November 15, 2019, 12:21:50 PM »
I'll caveat this once again about how I'm not in the entertainment industry, but they seem to be going about this the wrong way...still.

No one who isn't already in the FIRE community is going to pay $5-10 to watch this. Why they didn't sell streaming rights to one of these services is just baffling to me. Sell it whole hog to recoup your costs, make your money off book sales, and move on. You get people watching it who wouldn't otherwise know about it.

Going this route I doubt they make back the $350k it cost them to make it.

From my understanding, they've been been trying to sell streaming rights to Netflix for months.

HBFIRE

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #95 on: November 15, 2019, 01:50:15 PM »
Why they didn't sell streaming rights to one of these services is just baffling to me.


It's not that simple.  To get streaming rights to Netflix or Amazon you first have to prove that your film has legs, that is that people want to watch it.  You realize how many film makers are trying to get distribution rights on the big streaming services?  If Netflix or Amazon flooded their distribution with a bunch of low quality films their entire reputation would suffer.  It's the same type of scenario as people trying to find a publisher for their crappy book and then have to resort to self publishing.

EndlessJourney

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #96 on: November 15, 2019, 02:02:07 PM »
If Netflix or Amazon flooded their distribution with a bunch of low quality films their entire reputation would suffer.

I had to laugh at this.

We just cancelled our Netflix subscription because the vast (>80% of the titles) are rated 5.x or lower on IMDB. Not enough to justify the odd Stranger Things or Dark.

Chris @ Saturday Financial

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #97 on: November 15, 2019, 02:07:18 PM »
If Netflix or Amazon flooded their distribution with a bunch of low quality films their entire reputation would suffer.

I had to laugh at this.

We just cancelled our Netflix subscription because the vast (>80% of the titles) are rated 5.x or lower on IMDB. Not enough to justify the odd Stranger Things or Dark.

True. We recently canceled Netflix as well, and the decision was especially easy since we have Amazon Prime. We can always resubscribe to Netflix for one month a year when they release the latest season of Stranger Things. :)

fattest_foot

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #98 on: November 15, 2019, 02:29:50 PM »
It's not that simple.  To get streaming rights to Netflix or Amazon you first have to prove that your film has legs, that is that people want to watch it.  You realize how many film makers are trying to get distribution rights on the big streaming services?  If Netflix or Amazon flooded their distribution with a bunch of low quality films their entire reputation would suffer.  It's the same type of scenario as people trying to find a publisher for their crappy book and then have to resort to self publishing.

This statement confuses me. Not only because they have tons of terrible content, but it seems like there isn't a documentary they're afraid to stream. Seriously, go look at how many asinine documentaries they currently have.

I don't buy this idea that they'll only air something that's proven it has legs by doing a certain amount of revenue already. I have a feeling the Playing With Fire people just don't have the connections or know-how to get theirs picked up.

HBFIRE

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Re: Playing with FIRE documentary
« Reply #99 on: November 15, 2019, 02:37:09 PM »

This statement confuses me. Not only because they have tons of terrible content, but it seems like there isn't a documentary they're afraid to stream. Seriously, go look at how many asinine documentaries they currently have.


Somewhat true, there is only so much great content so they have to allow some questionable content in just have to have a big enough library.  It's a careful balance of library size and quality, difficult balance.  If they allowed every indy movie in, it would completely dilute the library to a very low quality standard.  In any case, Netflix/Amazon don't just allow any film to be distributed, it has to prove first that it can get some traction which is what this PWF documentary was attempting to do.  Whether or not you buy into it that's how it works.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 02:41:41 PM by HBFIRE »