Author Topic: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification  (Read 8516 times)

totoro

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Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« on: September 18, 2012, 10:53:03 AM »
MMM's post on consumerism and reducing wants got me to thinking about why it appeals to me but does not appeal to others. I wonder how much personality plays into it.

Have you ever done the Colours test? http://www.truecolorscareer.com/quiz.asp

It is a simple version of the Myers-Briggs. Basically, there are four colours ranked in order as to prevalence in a persons character:
 
1. Green (minority- mostly male) – thinkers and inventors and innovators – most folks, including me, who have this at top would have no problem with delayed gratification or passing over consumer goods. they tend to like reading and research and long-term planning.
 
2. Blue (minority – mostly women) – feelers – emotional content in life is paramount. These folks are not big spenders naturally but focus more on relationship than retirement plans. FI appeals less to these folks until they see the benefit of staying home with kids or having more time for family.
 
3. Orange (larger cohort – mixed gender) – fun folks – these folks have a hard time with delayed gratification because they tend to live in the moment and enjoy spontaneous events and “good” times. Concerts, parties, and having the best come as natural wants. These folks spend easily and saving comes hard for them. They like action and entertainment.
 
4. Gold (the largest majority – mixed gender) – order, tradition and rules appeal to these folks. They like to accomplish things on a list and check them off. They might adopt FI if it is part of a plan but they also enjoy nice consumer goods and dislike going outside of the standard comfort zone. Working is seen as standard and not working outside of the regular retirement ages might not be a goal.

I guess what I have been thinking about is how flexible are we? Colours and personality types don’t appear to shift radically over time. Can an orange spender be converted to focus on FI? Being green (INTJ), I’m not entirely sure, but my experience with folks tends to support the notion that the answer is no.

If this is the case, perhaps FI can spread into mainstream and influence gold, blue and certainly green – but I expect there will always be a large group of folks that will dislike it because future benefits are not real or all that interesting to them. What this also means though is that who you choose as a partner is extremely important if you find FI very rewarding.

arebelspy

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 11:04:30 AM »
I am familiar with it.

I am different colors in different situations.  As a student in the classroom I am very different than as a husband at home.

It may correlate somewhat, just as INTJ tents to pop up more in ERE and other ER communities, and how engineers seem to be disproportionally represented.

I don't know that it's a strong indicator, however.
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totoro

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 11:20:46 AM »
I agree with the different colours in different situations and everyone has all the colours to a different degree, but my experience is that how FI is approached and adopted or not relates to the primary colour.  Not sure that is the same for everyone but I would expect it is generally true.

My experience with a variety of primary orange folks for example is that delayed gratification required for FI does not really appeal to them and primarily seems like a waste of focus.  Enjoyment is now and each moment, not later after retirement. Fun is a goal and the logic of FI does not really seem all that reasonable given that they are not bothered by long-term security concerns significantly.   Perception is fundamentally different, and it is perception that influences satisfaction.  A lot of these folks have been quite financially successful, although they may have a low savings rate, and are very good at things like sales and marketing.  They may also take bigger risks in investing that pay off.  Winning, including through gambling, is really fun for them.

AJ

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 11:49:08 AM »
I've never done this test, but I am familiar with Myers-Briggs (being a strongly typed INTP myself).

While people don't really change types over time, we all do grow and mature, and part of that process is strengthening those areas which are natural weaknesses for us. So, it will always be my nature to be a thinker, but I value people's feelings now more than I ever have in the past. Likewise, DH (who is an ESFP) has learned that just because he feels something doesn't mean he *must* base his decisions off that feeling. I will always be an introvert, but I am more comfortable in large groups now than I was in my youth, and have learned to be a better small-talker (not a natural skill for me). I hope to continue to improve as I age.

I would be willing to bet that orange folks could learn delayed gratification if it was something they came to value. It might never be the natural inclination it is for other types, but that is part of growing up and maturing.

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 11:53:42 AM »
Apparently I'm gold.  I see this plan as only part of my bigger goals.


totoro

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 12:17:26 PM »
I should have explained that I coach (volunteer) for a personal development program that uses the Colours test as a small part of the experience, but it does have a big impact on how folks look at each other and understand how to relate to one another best.  My experience with placing people into groups based on the primary colour is that it is an a-ha moment for lots of them.  Things all of a sudden make more sense and the commonalities in the groups are very prevalent and fun to explore.  It also allows people to work on what does not come naturally for them and adapt - which I do believe we can all do to a degree and have to do to work, relate to loved ones, socialize, plan.... 

I used orange as an example but the thought under it is that personality plays a big part in what appeals to us.  FI is universally appealing to some degree, but we won't all see it the same way or embrace it with the same degree of enthusiasm no matter how logical and appealing some of us may find the principles.   

While I can't force myself to enjoy back to back big group social occasions, I can enjoy dinner parties with smaller groups a lot.  There are fundamental differences in people.

I am not naturally a list-maker myself, in fact one of my biggest continuous false beliefs is that I can remember everything without a list.  I never learn, but I cope.  I have friends that are fanatical list makers and totally enjoy crossing things off.  One friend woke up and remembered she had not put something on her list the day before that she had accomplished.  She got out yesterday's list, wrote it down, and crossed it off.  Very satisfying for her.  I would never ever do that because I would find it redundant, and I probably could not find yesterday's list.

My sister had to give up gambling because she spen more money than she could afford without realizing it and her spouse was really upset when he found out.  I couldn't care less about gambling.  I went to Vegas for her wedding and never gambled once.  I was more interested in the real estate market.  When I talk to my sister about FI she is just not prepared to give up current things she enjoys or change what she enjoys - maybe it is just not... her.  She has loads of great qualities that I truly appreciate but she would never read this blog.

So, a lot of posts here deal with changing attitudes, logic and long-term benefits.  Others question why others are not on the same path.  I think there is a limit to what appeals to different folks and the majority of people are not going to embrace ERE or FI unless they have a strong experience that makes them hit bottom - like the great depression - and then frugality will be necessity and survival and a way of life - like it is in many countries these days. 

We just have a lot of access to credit and ways to consume beyond our means and that appeals to a lot of folks.


Jamesqf

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 01:57:53 PM »
I suppose I would be green with orange stripes :-)

I think this kind of misses at least part of the point.  For me, it's not so much that I delay gratification (though I can if necessary), it's that I've learned to find my gratification in things that don't involve spending lots of money.

totoro

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 02:04:27 PM »
Maybe it is not about delayed gratification but what and how you find gratification of needs and wants?  People go about this differently and can learn to satisfy things in a different way but it is not as appealing to some folks as others.  I think this is partly due to personality differences and not lack of knowledge.

Bingeworker

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2012, 11:26:15 AM »
I just tried the test, I came up green ("Thinker" in green type, so I assume that's green).  I am extremely good at delaying gratification, and I think you (the OP) make a great point that this is a key component of successful Mustachianism. 

I'm also female, so I guess I'm in even more of a minority.

AJ

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 12:09:25 PM »
I just tried the test, I came up green ("Thinker" in green type, so I assume that's green)....I'm also female...

Me too :) Twin-sies!

totoro

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 12:20:02 PM »
Yep, I'm a green female too :)  I've always felt a bit different.  Correlates with INTJ which is less than 1% of women in North America.  Some stats put it at 1/4 of 1%.   

I have no problem with delayed gratification and never have had.  I used to save my Halloween candy for months as a kid, while my sister ate hers as fast as possible. 

I do have a problem sometimes with making decisions.  I spend so much time thinking and researching that the delay can be a problem.  Took me forever to decide what kind of car to buy (Mazda 5 in the end). 

I can also spend loads of time figuring out interesting ideas that have no real practical use - or get so interested in a cool idea or plan that I lose sight of my own personal likes and dislikes as a factor.  I still own a recreational lot on a remote island that I bought with my best friend with plans to build a cabin and spend the summers there.  The cabin still has not happened because I failed to account for the fact that I do not like roughing it at all.

Bingeworker

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2012, 02:18:26 PM »
I'm an INTP if I recall correctly- What percentage of North American females are in that category, any idea?  I know INTJ is the classic Mustachian-style profile, is INTP close behind?

I'm pretty good at making decisions, if they don't involve other people.  I guess that might be the "P" part of the INTP coming out.

totoro

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2012, 03:06:27 PM »
INTP women are approx 1% of the population of women on most charts. 

AJ

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AJ

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2012, 03:28:31 PM »
I'm an INTP if I recall correctly- What percentage of North American females are in that category, any idea?  I know INTJ is the classic Mustachian-style profile, is INTP close behind?

I'm pretty good at making decisions, if they don't involve other people.  I guess that might be the "P" part of the INTP coming out.

I think the thing that makes J better for Mustachian living is that Js are just-do-it people, while Ps are possibility people. At least, that's what I personally find challenging. When I get home from work I can do dishes, bake bread, or mow the lawn. All would be equally beneficial. I imagine a J would just make a list, start at the top, and get to work, but I end up stuck in analysis paralysis trying to figure out which would be best to start with, and end up getting none done.

totoro

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2012, 03:33:03 PM »
Nope, I can attest to the fact that INT's are very prone to analysis paralysis.  We just spend a lot of time coming up with systems to try to get over it :) 

happy

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2012, 04:46:24 PM »
Another Green female here! I am not surprised since in the last year I have had a renewed interest in MBTI, due to a leadership unit of study I was doing where we were asked to do the test. I rated as an INTJ... Interestingly I did a MBTI  at around 30 years of age and was INFJ.  The change surprised me and led me to some investigations.... I did lots of the free tests on line and paid to redo MBTI online and still came up with INTJ...BUT I was only weakly T. I can't find my original old test, but I wonder if  I was not particularly strong on the F scale.  When I looked at the literature my impression was that the type was stable over time....Interestingly I can work in both F and T mode quite well, but extreme Ts and extreme Fs bother me due to their lack of balance, and only seeing one part of the big picture.

I agree, despite my J,  I get much more excited about ideas and plans, but always struggle with implementation. This is true also in my mustachian journey, I have to try to push my self into taking action.

To add my 2c worth to the OP: I thought the strength of MBTI is that it is based on preferences..ie people will prefer a particular mode of thought or action. That's not to say they can't learn to do the opposite more proficiently if they wish.  In fact some have suggested that one goal of personal development is to try to be more versatile and balanced, and this would involve trying to develop the least preferred way of operating.   Of course you could also play to your strengths and surround yourself with opposites to do the bits you can't ( if you can stand it - since opposites often find each other irritating).

I think its important to check out the opposite:  for example INT/FJ 's can ignore signals of ill health from their bodies (Si) and need to learn to pay attention to this. Also I've learned when I've got into trouble in the past with spending it will be me flipping into Se ie seeking/desiring fine things, beautiful surroundings and experiences such as fine dining

So mustachianism will appeal more to certain types, but everyone can do it if they want.

AJ

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2012, 04:58:00 PM »
In fact some have suggested that one goal of personal development is to try to be more versatile and balanced, and this would involve trying to develop the least preferred way of operating.

I thought this was an interesting breakdown of how we might mature over the years: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/development.html

happy

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2012, 08:51:19 PM »
Thats a good page link AJ: I found this site quite helpful in the past.

FWIW I'm 53....The inferior Se, has certainly caused me the most problems in the past... I'm just feeling I'm starting to get it under control in a satisfactory way.

Since there seem to be a lot of INJs here, this link helps explain it in more detail: http://personalityjunkie.com/04/extraverted-sensing-se-intjs-infjs-inferior-function/.


unitsinc

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2012, 09:37:40 PM »
I didn't get a color.

I'm a "planner"


totoro

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2012, 09:42:52 PM »
Did you take the test?  http://www.truecolorscareer.com/quiz.asp

Planner usually equals green predominance.

igthebold

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2012, 08:33:38 AM »
One funny thing about these questions (I'm in the middle of taking them) is that any of them taken to extreme would be a sign of immaturity. This tempers my answers a lot, and I find myself having to answer based on what my natural inclinations would be rather than what I'd actually do.

E.g. 'In my relationships I tend to (a) expect my partner to know I love them without saying it or (b) tell my partner "I love you".' What? Doesn't it depend on my partner's desires? If I'm in a relationship and I'm not considering her, aren't I just a selfish, immature jerk?

My point is that I find myself answering the questions a lot differently from how I would have 15 years ago even though I'm temperamentally the same person.

As such, there may be a good correlation between various types and the ability to delay gratification, but that doesn't need to discourage the people who don't correlate.. life is a process of maturing and we all have to overcome our own temperaments for the sake of others.

PS - INTJ and proud.
PPS - Ha.. next question: "are you analyzing this test?"
PPPS - Finshed the test.. Thinker

totoro

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2012, 09:41:40 AM »
"Are you analyzing this test"  ha!

happy

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Re: Personality and FI and ability to delay gratification
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2012, 04:06:47 AM »



Quote
PPS - Ha.. next question: "are you analyzing this test?"

Yeah...giveaway INTJ question.... how could you not analyse the test? Made me giggle