Author Topic: Our Mustachian Sacred Cows (Read 112819 times)

AJ · « **on:** September 26, 2012, 11:01:06 AM »

So, the 21 year old soon-to-be "retiree" got me thinking about how our little community has developed over the months it has been around. I love the community of "believers" we've built here, but I also think we have begun to solidify our dogma. I think it is a bad thing to hold and idea as unquestionable, even if it is true in most instances. So, with that, these are the MMM Sacred Cows I could think of. I tried to denigrate all of them equally, even the ones I agree with, but I am not without bias. I thought it might be good for us, as reasonable intelligent people, to be aware of our biases of our group at large. I'm hoping other folks can find ones I've missed. I'm also taking a gamble that we're all laid-back enough to poke fun of ourselves a bit...

DIY is always better than paying someone, even if it costs more in money, time, energy, and headache and produces an inferior result.
Communte by bike, no exceptions. Doesn't matter if you work 60 hour weeks and "don't have the time", you can't shower near work, or have daycare obligations. Make time. Figure it out. Move closer, no matter how much it costs.
Index funds only. People who actively trade are idealistic idiots, people who hold large amounts of gold are crazy.
Smart people have long mortgages and use credit cards for rewards.
Paleo diet is the healthiest diet, even for people with no bad reactions to grains and dairy. Spend extra here if need be.
$24k-$36k is the correct amount to spend annually. Spending less means you're missing something (like healthcare) or live as a hermit, spending more means you're a wasteful over-consumer.
Financial gurus are all idiots who don't know what they're talking about. Except MMM, whose opinions and decisions we trust implicity and without question.

Please forgive me for playing a bit of a devil's advocate...I blame my INTP nature for wanting to use contrarianism as a jumping off point for discussion... ;)

gecko10x · « **Reply #1 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:16:31 AM »

Fantastic!

Unfortunately, I have nothing of substance to add at this time.

velocistar237 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:30:10 AM »

8. Large student loans are never worth it.
9. Health insurance costs won't be a problem during retirement.

tooqk4u22 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:43:25 AM »

Very funny....here is my contribution.

10. Don't use any energy of any kind, except the human kind of course, because if it is 10 degrees put on a sweater and get a blanket, if it is 110 degrees sleep in a pool, if it is dark go to sleep or get out your crank flashlight (can't use candles because that would pollute the air), if you need to cook then get out your solar oven....although this shouldn't be an issue because you are only eating grains and raw veggies.

velocistar237 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:47:57 AM »

11. Early retirement is the pinnacle of virtue. There are no ethical problems with it, and of course we aren't selfish!

elindbe2 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:49:15 AM »

Well the glaringly obvious dogma is :

Financial independence is a goal worth pursuing

But I disagree that much of your list is dogma around here. A lot of your list is dealing with absolutes (obviously because that's what dogma is): "biking is always better", "DIY is always better", etc. People here don't actually think that way for the most part. Now if those items were "biking is usually better" and "DIY is oftentimes better" then I'd agree with your list. This is not to say we shouldn't argue about all of these things, but I think most people here are intelligent enough not to deal in absolutes.

twinge · « **Reply #6 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:53:13 AM »

13. Foolhardy optimism is better than complaining.

Use it up, wear it out... · « **Reply #7 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:54:09 AM »

How about:

One of the first places to look for lifestyle changes / expense reductions is by changing your commuting situation, regardless of the impact on the rest of your life

totoro · « **Reply #8 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:57:00 AM »

14. Folks who choose to spend most of what they make and work until 65 just don't know a better way.

Jamesqf · « **Reply #9 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:57:31 AM »

Quote from: AJ on September 26, 2012, 11:01:06 AM

Index funds only. People who actively trade are idealistic idiots, people who hold large amounts of gold are crazy.

Not to mention the whole middle ground of actively-managed mutual funds. But I agree that people who hold large amounts of gold usually are crazy. Indeed, I think there's a cause-effect relationship there.

smalllife · « **Reply #10 on:** September 26, 2012, 11:58:44 AM »

The only early retirement worth pursuing is the one where you are completely financially independent (not can live with part time minimum wage) and you should only "retire" when at that point.

Use it up, wear it out... · « **Reply #11 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:00:37 PM »

And another:

Paying for someone else to care for your children is morally wrong

elindbe2 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:01:44 PM »

17. Concerning yourself with social status is bad. It doesn't matter how other people perceive your dress, your mode of transport or the size of your house.

Use it up, wear it out... · « **Reply #13 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:11:41 PM »

Quote from: Jamesqf on September 26, 2012, 11:57:31 AM

But I agree that people who hold large amounts of gold usually are crazy. Indeed, I think there's a cause-effect relationship there.

Gold DOES make people crazy, especially during certain phases of the moon. Goldbug....

:-)

spider1204 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:36:36 PM »

18. Everyone's financial troubles are the result of poor choices.

arebelspy · « **Reply #15 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:39:03 PM »

This is my favorite thread in a long time.

Thanks for starting it, AJ, and thanks to those contributing.

Another Reader · « **Reply #16 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:43:33 PM »

19. All health issues and physical disabilities are caused by bad lifestyle choices.

20. Cheap health insurance is available to all, and can be purchased immediately through e-health insurance.

kkbmustang · « **Reply #17 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:52:55 PM »

Bedpan catheter goggles are required to be worn at all times.

Norman Johnson · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:56:32 PM »

20. If I decide to buy something (like a vehicle for instance) there is no possible way I ran the numbers, thought about it, found a way to afford it or decided the amount of money spent was worth the value I percieve of said purchase.

totoro · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2012, 12:58:24 PM »

"The only early retirement worth pursuing is the one where you are completely financially independent (not can live with part time minimum wage) and you should only "retire" when at that point."

Funny, I've been thinking about this lately. As a professional, I work part-time but can never completely let my job go because of the level of responsibility I hold as an owner of the company and the professional standards I have to meet. I earn a highish wage but it will be a few years to FI still unless I ramp up a bit which I don't want to do while my kids are at home. I have considered just quitting and being almost FI with a part-time job without responsibility that I would enjoy - like working in a library - to bridge any gaps.

Many high-paying professions that get you to FI faster are also more stressful to do... might be a good solution for some and allow them to pursue a hobby for minimum wage.

kisserofsinners · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2012, 01:32:17 PM »

Well played all. Thanks for the thread AJ.

TLV · « **Reply #21 on:** September 26, 2012, 01:49:26 PM »

21. Cable TV is of the devil.

StashinIt · « **Reply #22 on:** September 26, 2012, 03:16:21 PM »

22. The environment is worth protecting
23. A good mustache is the epitome of manliness.
24. What most people really need is a good punch in the face!

PaulM12345 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 26, 2012, 03:30:47 PM »

We are happier and more fulfilled than all those muggles out there.

SJ · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2012, 11:21:14 AM »

Such a great topic AJ! Glad someone put it out there. Sometimes this forum comes across a bit cultish. ALWAYS question...always.

yolfer · « **Reply #25 on:** September 27, 2012, 02:01:30 PM »

25. A gym membership is redundant and a waste of money (since you bike everywhere). But it's ok for your wife to pay for crossfit. ;)

igthebold · « **Reply #26 on:** September 27, 2012, 02:10:24 PM »

Quote from: SJ on September 27, 2012, 11:21:14 AM

Such a great topic AJ! Glad someone put it out there. Sometimes this forum comes across a bit cultish. ALWAYS question...always.

Are you sure about that? Please justify your statement.

Osprey · « **Reply #27 on:** September 27, 2012, 02:53:40 PM »

I love the humour and humility in this thread. The ideas from this "cult" have resulted in good things overall, which is the yardstick I generally use to see if something is worth pursuing. So until that changes all I have to say is, what flavour is the koolaid and can I have mine on ice?

Adventine · « **Reply #28 on:** September 28, 2012, 05:57:22 AM »

Quote from: SJ on September 27, 2012, 11:21:14 AM

Such a great topic AJ! Glad someone put it out there. Sometimes this forum comes across a bit cultish. ALWAYS question...always.

And I thought I was the only one feeling a little weird about the hero worship on this forum...

Great, great topic. And can't we get some freshly squeezed lemonade from someone's home garden instead of storebought Koolaid?

SJ · « **Reply #29 on:** September 28, 2012, 06:38:11 AM »

Quote from: igthebold on September 27, 2012, 02:10:24 PM

Quote from: SJ on September 27, 2012, 11:21:14 AM
Such a great topic AJ! Glad someone put it out there. Sometimes this forum comes across a bit cultish. ALWAYS question...always.

Are you sure about that? Please justify your statement.

I don't need to justify anything. It's just my opinion, take it or leave it.

igthebold · « **Reply #30 on:** September 28, 2012, 07:05:37 AM »

Quote from: SJ on September 28, 2012, 06:38:11 AM

Quote from: igthebold on September 27, 2012, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: SJ on September 27, 2012, 11:21:14 AM
Such a great topic AJ! Glad someone put it out there. Sometimes this forum comes across a bit cultish. ALWAYS question...always.

Are you sure about that? Please justify your statement.

I don't need to justify anything. It's just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Ironic, given I was just following your advice. :)

SJ · « **Reply #31 on:** September 28, 2012, 07:13:33 AM »

Quote from: igthebold on September 28, 2012, 07:05:37 AM

Quote from: SJ on September 28, 2012, 06:38:11 AM
Quote from: igthebold on September 27, 2012, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: SJ on September 27, 2012, 11:21:14 AM
Such a great topic AJ! Glad someone put it out there. Sometimes this forum comes across a bit cultish. ALWAYS question...always.

Are you sure about that? Please justify your statement.

I don't need to justify anything. It's just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Ironic, given I was just following your advice. :)

Oooh, the juicy irony is so delicious. Thanks for the giggle.

igthebold · « **Reply #32 on:** September 28, 2012, 07:28:06 AM »

Quote from: SJ on September 28, 2012, 07:13:33 AM

Oooh, the juicy irony is so delicious. Thanks for the giggle.

I was being somewhat facetious, as you no doubt recognized. :) For what it's worth, I mostly agree with you. Healthy skepticism is good, which is why I appreciate this thread (thanks OP). We just have to remember to include ourselves in our skepticism. The easiest person in the world to deceive is ourself.

Heather · « **Reply #33 on:** September 28, 2012, 07:40:58 AM »

Winners are losers. So, we win. :-)

frugal_engineer · « **Reply #34 on:** September 29, 2012, 09:05:48 AM »

26. Any vehicle that gets less than 35mpg and isn't a hatchback is ridiculous to own even if paid off and Totally Awesome.

Fuzz · « **Reply #35 on:** September 29, 2012, 11:37:16 PM »

Love it! Great forum topic.

ShanghaiStashing · « **Reply #36 on:** October 01, 2012, 10:08:59 PM »

27. One should never have a cleaning lady to do the household chores, regardless of the cost
28. Don't eat out. Ever.
29. If you do eat out, consume as little food as humanly possible.

Bakari · « **Reply #37 on:** October 01, 2012, 10:37:30 PM »

I don't know how many of these are really "sacred cows".

Most (if not all) are things which a number of people here would disagree with.

Right off the bat, I personally strongly disagree with 5, 6, 18, 20 (the first one), and mildly disagree with most of the rest (at least in the absolute form they are presented in).

Though I personally would generally agree with 14, 21, 22, and 24, many of the ones I might agree with, other's on the forum have made cases against - and the majority of differences of opinion here have been met with reason and open minds.

All of which brings me to my contribution:

#30: the people on this forum are generally smarter, more rational, more open minded, and most of all more able and willing to look at things differently instead of just doing something a certain way just because "that's the way its done", making us superior to all the consumer sheep still stuck in the matrix.

totoro · « **Reply #38 on:** October 01, 2012, 10:43:43 PM »

20 #3 - Posters on this site have difficulty with numbering systems.

Okay - not really a sacred cow, more of an observation.

LatteLaura · « **Reply #39 on:** October 02, 2012, 08:46:30 AM »

Thank you for this topic! After coming out of a fundamentalist/cultish religious background a few years ago in my early 30's, I really appreciate this whole sacred cow thing being brought up.

I don't do many of the things that MMM presents as mandatory (bike-ride everywhere). Yet I love the blog because it gives me good ideas and motivation. I have made and continue to make huge progress in my own financial life. I try to read everything with a grain of salt and use what works for me.

I don't have to "follow" MMM or anyone else, but can still learn from and enjoy the blog and forum.

Here's another sacred cow:
-Paying for lessons, sports or activities for kids is a waste of money.

MoonPilgrim · « **Reply #40 on:** October 02, 2012, 01:41:09 PM »

Great thread, don't forget:

"...if you wouldn’t currently buy it for thousands of dollars, that means you should sell it for thousands of dollars."
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/08/22/how_to_sell_silver/

Even though many of us disagree with some of tenets of Mustachianism, I think what resonates so strongly in the MMM posts is TRUTH. Maybe not mine or yours, but his. MMM has strong convictions, and it isn't just talk--he lives an authentic life, practicing what he preaches, and putting his money where his mouth (and heart) is.

Plus, MMM appreciates good beer. Financial freedom and a decent brew are two things I can get behind.

jpluncford21 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:17:19 PM »

This cracked me up and I wanted to revive it. It makes me aware of how people might see us as rediculous sometimes.

Dee18 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:59:04 PM »

Whoa!! I'm sure I am not the only one who completely disagrees with this one:

"Paying for someone else to care for your children is morally wrong."

One thing I like about MMM is that people pretty much support each other, except for the "punch in the face" for financially stupid expenditures. If a couple with young children want to both work to save up a stache and retire early to spend time with the kids when they are 8-18, I say more power to them. I think it's great if parents are able to work out childcare between them; I think it's great if grandparents want to provide childcare, and I think single parents deserve support for making it through each day. Here's to every parent who cares about quality childcare, whoever provides it!

arebelspy · « **Reply #43 on:** March 18, 2013, 02:07:35 PM »

Quote from: Dee18 on March 18, 2013, 01:59:04 PM

Whoa!! I'm sure I am not the only one who completely disagrees with this one

I think you missed the point of the thread.

Many of the items are tongue-in-cheek and absolutes soas to be over the top.

jpluncford21 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 18, 2013, 02:22:49 PM »

Quote from: arebelspy on March 18, 2013, 02:07:35 PM

Quote from: Dee18 on March 18, 2013, 01:59:04 PM
Whoa!! I'm sure I am not the only one who completely disagrees with this one

I think you missed the point of the thread.

Many of the items are tongue-in-cheek and absolutes soas to be over the top.

Agreed

Mike · « **Reply #45 on:** March 19, 2013, 11:42:14 AM »

#31: All household appliances must be bought cheaply from craigslist.
#32: Most groceries must be bought from Costco.
#33: If you don't bike outside in the winter months, you're a pussy.
#34: Owning rental property is a must.

mobilisinmobili · « **Reply #46 on:** March 19, 2013, 11:50:42 AM »

Hehehe, funny thread.

I hope the people in this forum are flexible enough in their realities to know that everyone is different and to avoid superlatives (the healthiest) or musts.

We're just a good with plenty of actionable and crackin' good ideas.

PKFFW · « **Reply #47 on:** March 19, 2013, 06:40:32 PM »

35: If I have achieved FI then it is self evident that everyone else can do the same regardless of their situation.
36: As a result of 35 no thought should be given to equal opportunities, education, healthcare etc. Each person should be required to achieve FI on their own and those already FI owe nothing to anyone or to society in general.

jnik · « **Reply #48 on:** March 24, 2013, 08:47:37 AM »

Quote from: Mike on March 19, 2013, 11:42:14 AM

#33: If you don't bike outside in the winter months, you're a pussy.

Rule 9

kudy · « **Reply #49 on:** March 24, 2013, 10:52:40 AM »

Can't believe I missed this thread the first time around!

#36 Buying the latest tech gadget or smartphone is a terrible waste of money, it's always better to own an old flip phone and use 3 minutes of talk time per month

News:

Author Topic: Our Mustachian Sacred Cows (Read 112819 times)

Osprey