One of my friends is really close to living without money.

[clarkfan1979]

One of my friends lives on the Big Island of Hawaii. He is an artist and is trying to do a sustainable living project in which he lives carbon free. He is documenting his sustainable living and wants to eventually make a short film.

It seems as though one byproduct of doing this, is that he doesn't really need any money for anything.

He bought a 3 acre lot $30,000. Big Island property tax exemption is $40,000, so his taxes are zero.

He built two huts with solar power, so he doesn't have any utilities.

He grows all of his own food on site. 

If he wanted to get off of his property, he hitch-hiked for the first 3 years. However, be bought a Honda for $1,000 about one year ago.

If he gets rid of the Honda, I think he can live without needing money. I am going to visit him in a couple months. I want to try to talk him into living without money as part of his short film because he is so close without even trying.

Would it add to the film? Thoughts?

[Metric Mouse]

I think it would add to the film. Just another aspect of being self-sufficient.

I'd love to know more about what he grows for food.

[Snow White]

I think the film would be fine if he documents how he lives with little money since that is so far removed from most people's lives to still be fascinating. Using no money is too extreme IMHO. 

On another note...no line item for health care. How does he handle that expense? Even mustachians fall out of the coconut tree sometime and break a leg. 😉

[KBecks]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

I'm curious about how he's getting drinking water and if he's vegan or if he's got any animals on the farm. 

Sounds very interesting and could be a good film.

[Footsore Rambler]

Speaking as an artist who's trying to live on very little money and would like to be sustainable, this sounds like it could be a pretty interesting film.  I do think the money aspect would enhance it.

[Metric Mouse]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

I'm curious about how he's getting drinking water and if he's vegan or if he's got any animals on the farm. 

Sounds very interesting and could be a good film.

Right? I'd have taken two, at that price.

[marty998]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

I'm curious about how he's getting drinking water and if he's vegan or if he's got any animals on the farm. 

Sounds very interesting and could be a good film.

Right? I'd have taken two, at that price.

As long as you leave 10 for me.

I guess there is a volcano constantly making more land in Hawaii... so the old saying that "they ain't making anymore of it!" doesn't ring true there.

[Metric Mouse]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

I'm curious about how he's getting drinking water and if he's vegan or if he's got any animals on the farm. 

Sounds very interesting and could be a good film.

Right? I'd have taken two, at that price.

As long as you leave 10 for me.

I guess there is a volcano constantly making more land in Hawaii... so the old saying that "they ain't making anymore of it!" doesn't ring true there.

On a positive note, something like 96% of the islands in the pacific have added land area over the last decade or so. That part of the world is actually making more land, every single day!

[Telecaster]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

Real estate on the Big Island is shockingly reasonable.   For example, here is a house on three acres with a coffee plantation, including the equipment.  Less than $400K. 


http://www.koarealty.com/search/?quicksearch=true&island=3&remarks=coffee%20farm

[Metric Mouse]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

Real estate on the Big Island is shockingly reasonable.   For example, here is a house on three acres with a coffee plantation, including the equipment.  Less than $400K. 


http://www.koarealty.com/search/?quicksearch=true&island=3&remarks=coffee%20farm

Oh my... Might have to add this to my two-year plan...

[Dicey]

If you say you live without money, people think you're a nut job. If you say you live on a three acre farm in Hawaii for Xk/per year (note single X) and grow your own food, people are intrigued.

[JrDoctor]

Sounds idyllic for a period of ones life.

[SwordGuy]

On a positive note, something like 96% of the islands in the pacific have added land area over the last decade or so. That part of the world is actually making more land, every single day!

Source, please?  That's a bit hard to believe.  Volcanic eruptions on 96% of the islands in the Pacific in the last decade?

[KBecks]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

Real estate on the Big Island is shockingly reasonable.   For example, here is a house on three acres with a coffee plantation, including the equipment.  Less than $400K. 


http://www.koarealty.com/search/?quicksearch=true&island=3&remarks=coffee%20farm

Well less than $400k is not exactly 3 acres for $30k, but it's interesting.  I know a couple people who moved to Hawaii who have moved back. It is interesting though!  Might be worth an hour of fantasy real estate browsing. :)

[CloserToFree]

This is fascinating and I'd love to find out more/ watch the documentary when I is finished. Had same question about healthcare though.

[slugsworth]

It sounds like an awesome documentary - I knew a guy who due to anti-war beliefs has lived below the reporting threshold for reporting income to the IRS for years. . . but this was far from $0 income.

In other news. . .I didn't realize people lived on what looks like such 'fresh land' it is cheap thorugh!

goo.gl/Rt5PeK

[Gondolin]

If you say you live on a three acre farm in Hawaii for Xk/per year (note single X)

+1. This. Saying your annual expenditure is only $1000 per year makes you sound like an intriguing Bear Grylls alt-lifestyler.

Saying you "live without money" makes you sound like an anarcho-commie hipster.

The idea is a good one however, the tone matters a lot here.

[rpr]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

http://www.alohaliving.com/search/search?idxid=HawaiiInformationService&pageid=results&querysrc=searchform&searchstyle=searchform&island=3&region=Puna&subdivision=Hawaiian+Acres&street=&zipcode=&form=LND&tenure=&ssreopf=any&minprice=0&minyrblt=0&minbeds=0&maxprice=1316134911&maxyrblt=99999&maxbeds=999&minbaths=0&minarea=0&minland=0&maxbaths=999&maxarea=0&maxland=99999999&oceanfront=&view=&remarks=&sorttype=price&sortdir=asc&resultview=list&locationchanged=1

I'm curious about how he's getting drinking water and if he's vegan or if he's got any animals on the farm. 

Sounds very interesting and could be a good film.

You can get a rainwater catchment system. That plus filters can get you water for most needs. This water may not be as drinkable for some people, but there are county water spigots at some points along the highway.

However, the neighborhoods can be a little rough -- dirt roads, petty thievery, drugs etc.

[rpr]

On another note...no line item for health care. How does he handle that expense? Even mustachians fall out of the coconut tree sometime and break a leg. 😉

Emergency room, if he can get himself there. It would be a harrowing ride on a dirt road in an Emergency Vehicle.

[frugalsurfer]

Very interesting.

Although (Corrected) 0.01214km2 of prime, fertile land is quite a large footprint for a single person to live 'carbon neutral' and 'almost money free'.

What if every single person on the planet wanted to live that way (I do, for sure).

We have 7,200,000,000 (7.2 billion) people on this planet, and 0.001970000km2 per person (source) of arable land of various quality (how much of that is highly fertile and capable of growing crops without high-intensity machinery and synthetic fertilisers is another question).

Not much, right?

As much as I love and support the back to the land ethic, and aspire to it myself, I am also a big supporter of using technology to grow foods intensively within urban areas with a significantly smaller land, resource, and environmental footprint. Indoor vertical farm buildings, aeroponics/aquaponics etc are all good options.

Unfortunately for some our diet of processed, unhealthy and/or high mile foods and the way we live has an expiration date. Even vegans are guilty of this, many buying plant based foods that have been inappropriately grown in drought struck areas (eg California) and then shipped thousands of Kms to a store on the other side of the continent/world for consumption. Growing local and eating seasonal produce (although indoor production addresses this) might have to be the future.

Regardless, I'd definitely be interested to watch your mini-doco.

[trollwithamustache]

These kind of experiments can be a lot of fun to follow... but I don't know if you can really say he is living without money. If he grows food and is exchanging food and/or his labor in barter for the other things he needs (but can't make) he has a medium of exchange, its just not the money your or I are using.  I'll cut him some slack on healthcare... I have a relative who is a doctor in a 2nd world country and often gets paid in bulk food products by farmers.. so with the right doctor, barter could be possible.

Now the carbon target, that seems very achievable and I hope you can post more about how successful  or not he is!

[jim555]

On another note...no line item for health care. How does he handle that expense? Even mustachians fall out of the coconut tree sometime and break a leg. 😉

Emergency room, if he can get himself there. It would be a harrowing ride on a dirt road in an Emergency Vehicle.

He could get Medicaid and a free cell phone if income is low enough.  Problem solved until Trump crushes it.

[Miss Piggy]

I have to agree with the others above who felt that living on $0 makes the guy sound like a bit of a nut job and it not believable. Living on very little $ sounds much more believable, realistic, and intriguing.

[maizefolk]

Very interesting.

Although 1.2km2 of prime, fertile land is quite a large footprint for a single person to live 'carbon neutral' and 'almost money free'.

What if every single person on the planet wanted to live that way (I do, for sure).

We have 7,200,000,000 (7.2 billion) people on this planet, and 0.001970000km2 per person (source) of arable land of various quality (how much of that is highly fertile and capable of growing crops without high-intensity machinery and synthetic fertilisers is another question).

I agree with you on the importance of intensive farming.

3 acres is 0.012 square kilometers (still more than 6 times the amount arable land we have left per person, but better 6x than 600x. ;) ).

[flyingaway]

Human beings lived like that thousands of years ago. We spent the past thousands of years to improve our living life, and some people want to go back to the old old days?

[Metric Mouse]

Human beings lived like that thousands of years ago. We spent the past thousands of years to improve our living life, and some people want to go back to the old old days?

And the old population levels, it would seem.

[TomTX]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

Real estate on the Big Island is shockingly reasonable.   For example, here is a house on three acres with a coffee plantation, including the equipment.  Less than $400K. 


http://www.koarealty.com/search/?quicksearch=true&island=3&remarks=coffee%20farm

Oh my... Might have to add this to my two-year plan...

Note that it's a lease hold.

Property can get very weird in Hawaii.

[TomTX]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

http://www.alohaliving.com/search/search?idxid=HawaiiInformationService&pageid=results&querysrc=searchform&searchstyle=searchform&island=3&region=Puna&subdivision=Hawaiian+Acres&street=&zipcode=&form=LND&tenure=&ssreopf=any&minprice=0&minyrblt=0&minbeds=0&maxprice=1316134911&maxyrblt=99999&maxbeds=999&minbaths=0&minarea=0&minland=0&maxbaths=999&maxarea=0&maxland=99999999&oceanfront=&view=&remarks=&sorttype=price&sortdir=asc&resultview=list&locationchanged=1

Note that the $30k lots tend to be in the area around the active lava flows.

No, that's not a joke. This is part of the Puna area by/on Kilauea.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/red-hot-lava-flow-edging-hawaiian-town/story?id=26420794

[rpr]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

http://www.alohaliving.com/search/search?idxid=HawaiiInformationService&pageid=results&querysrc=searchform&searchstyle=searchform&island=3&region=Puna&subdivision=Hawaiian+Acres&street=&zipcode=&form=LND&tenure=&ssreopf=any&minprice=0&minyrblt=0&minbeds=0&maxprice=1316134911&maxyrblt=99999&maxbeds=999&minbaths=0&minarea=0&minland=0&maxbaths=999&maxarea=0&maxland=99999999&oceanfront=&view=&remarks=&sorttype=price&sortdir=asc&resultview=list&locationchanged=1

Note that the $30k lots tend to be in the area around the active lava flows.

No, that's not a joke. This is part of the Puna area by/on Kilauea.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/red-hot-lava-flow-edging-hawaiian-town/story?id=26420794

The lots I linked to in the Hawaiian Acres subdivision are not in the direction of the current active lava flows. The reason they are inexpensive is that there is little development of the subdivision with no county utilities such as water,  electric, sewer etc.

The Puna district covers quite a large area. See the following website for a map of the various Lava Zones.

https://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/hazards/main.html

Hawaiian Acres is currently in Lava Zone 3. Most of the current activity is in the Eastern Rift Zone comprising Zones 1 and 2. The news article that you have was the lava flow that happened in 2014 towards the town of Pahoa which is in Zone 2.

[TomTX]

Wait, hold the phone -- are there any more 3 acre lots for $30k in Hawaii???

http://www.alohaliving.com/search/search?idxid=HawaiiInformationService&pageid=results&querysrc=searchform&searchstyle=searchform&island=3&region=Puna&subdivision=Hawaiian+Acres&street=&zipcode=&form=LND&tenure=&ssreopf=any&minprice=0&minyrblt=0&minbeds=0&maxprice=1316134911&maxyrblt=99999&maxbeds=999&minbaths=0&minarea=0&minland=0&maxbaths=999&maxarea=0&maxland=99999999&oceanfront=&view=&remarks=&sorttype=price&sortdir=asc&resultview=list&locationchanged=1

Note that the $30k lots tend to be in the area around the active lava flows.

No, that's not a joke. This is part of the Puna area by/on Kilauea.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/red-hot-lava-flow-edging-hawaiian-town/story?id=26420794

The lots I linked to in the Hawaiian Acres subdivision are not in the direction of the current active lava flows. The reason they are inexpensive is that there is little development of the subdivision with no county utilities such as water,  electric, sewer etc.

The Puna district covers quite a large area. See the following website for a map of the various Lava Zones.

https://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/hazards/main.html

Hawaiian Acres is currently in Lava Zone 3. Most of the current activity is in the Eastern Rift Zone comprising Zones 1 and 2. The news article that you have was the lava flow that happened in 2014 towards the town of Pahoa which is in Zone 2.

"Current" meaning the past few years. There are some flows on that map within Zone 3 and rather close to Hawaiian Acres. 1983-1996, or possibly 1977. I'm not certain with that map.

I'm not saying "NO, stay away!" - but the lava hazard is real.

[rpr]

No doubt the lava threat is real but the last time the lava flow went through Hawaiian acres was likely to have been 500+ years ago.

[AMandM]

If he gets rid of the Honda, I think he can live without needing money.

I can think of a few things he might need money for, besides transportation.
-Clothes
-Farming equipment
-Maintenance of water collection/filtration system
-Maintenance of solar panels
-Maintenance of huts
-Communications (cell phone service? Paper, pens, and postage?)
-Books
-Medical care
-Household equipment
-Moviemaking equipment

Some of these he might be able to barter for, and some of them I suppose he could ignore if it's only a short-term trial. To me personally, the idea of living without money doesn't sound anarcho-hippie, so I'd be interested.

[BlueHouse]

He built two huts with solar power, so he doesn't have any utilities.

Just curious, where does he poo?  I've always lived in very regulated areas, and if you want to put up a shelter of any kind, you would need permits and some "advanced" method of eliminating the human waste.   (septic system or sewer).  Are there regulations?  Are long-drop toilets allowed where he is? 

[clarkfan1979]

Lots of great feedback.

The most common feedback I am hearing is that my idea of zero money is probably not a good idea and probably not realistic. However, if he lives on $2000/year, then that's a story worth sharing. That is probably what he currently does without even trying.

He lives about 1 hour west of Hilo at an elevation of about 2,000 ft. His area gets about 150-200 inches of rain/year. He built an "outhouse" type of toilet system. It's probably not permitted. I don't know if his huts are permitted either. I will get more information when I go visit. I think he uses a rain water catch system for showers. He is working on getting it heated by solar.

He does have a cell phone, so that is a cost. He is the starving artist type and very much a hippie. I also mean that in a very positive way. I think he has only had 1 or 2 jobs in which he had a W-2 in his entire life. I don't think he has ever had health insurance.

When he lived in big cities he could pay the rent by selling his art and also doing handyman projects. He also lived rent free for about 5 years by being a housekeeper and dog watcher for a wealthy couple that traveled often.

[marty998]

No doubt the lava threat is real but the last time the lava flow went through Hawaiian acres was likely to have been 500+ years ago.

Lava flows make for some very nutrient rich fertile soil right?

[Retire-Canada]

A number of years back I had a few friends move from the big city to the interior of BC and buy acreages to live sustainably. I found that funny because it's far more sustainable to live in a high rise in the city than a couple people living on several acres of land. There just isn't enough land for that to be sustainable in any real sense.

Do the same thing and grow your food on your balcony, inside your apartment and on the roof of the building and I think you'd be onto something.

[Metric Mouse]

A number of years back I had a few friends move from the big city to the interior of BC and buy acreages to live sustainably. I found that funny because it's far more sustainable to live in a high rise in the city than a couple people living on several acres of land. There just isn't enough land for that to be sustainable in any real sense.

Do the same thing and grow your food on your balcony, inside your apartment and on the roof of the building and I think you'd be onto something.

I'm confused. How it several acres not enough, but a square yard of balcony enough space?

[Retire-Canada]

I'm confused. How it several acres not enough, but a square yard of balcony enough space?

A bunch of wealthy people in Canada buying acres of land to support 2 humans is not sustainability in any sense of the word I'd agree with.

OTOH figuring how to grow food in a high density living situation like a high rise apartment is what I would call sustainability as it doesn't requires large amounts of land or money that most people don't have access to.

[Metric Mouse]

I'm confused. How it several acres not enough, but a square yard of balcony enough space?

A bunch of wealthy people in Canada buying acres of land to support 2 humans is not sustainability in any sense of the word I'd agree with.

OTOH figuring how to grow food in a high density living situation like a high rise apartment is what I would call sustainability as it doesn't requires large amounts of land or money that most people don't have access to.

Ah. Yes, I see what you mean. There should be more than enough people living in dense areas for that learning to occur.  The wealthy people will be able to live on their several acres using more traditional methods. Win Win!

[Melchior]

This may be going off on a tangent but sometimes I wish we had only high-density vertical cities surrounded by wilderness.

[Retire-Canada]

This may be going off on a tangent but sometimes I wish we had only high-density vertical cities surrounded by wilderness.

I do as well.

[damyst]

This may be going off on a tangent but sometimes I wish we had only high-density vertical cities surrounded by wilderness.

I do as well.

Me too, and we may yet get there, although not in our lifetimes. Global migration trends favor urbanization, cities are densifying in most parts of the world, and world population will peak sometime this century. That's  great news all around - people in dense walkable cities consume far less energy (and, of course, land) per person than suburbanites or rural folk.

[expatartist]

This may be going off on a tangent but sometimes I wish we had only high-density vertical cities surrounded by wilderness.

This is essentially what we have in Hong Kong. It's not uncommon to find wild boars, pythons, etc on our islands and hills. Our land use here is extremely restricted. It's also part of why our real estate per square foot is the most expensive in the world.

[aneel]

Sounds like the OP has modified their take on the intrigue of living on no $ but I can't help but think the idea would run false in this scenario anyways, sounds like the artist has done a lot of stockpiling. So living off money already spent the which has a current value.

[Metric Mouse]

This may be going off on a tangent but sometimes I wish we had only high-density vertical cities surrounded by wilderness.

Having only those two options sounds like a nightmare.

[alleykat]

This may be going off on a tangent but sometimes I wish we had only high-density vertical cities surrounded by wilderness.

Having only those two options sounds like a nightmare.

Sounds like a nightmare to me too.

[Melchior]

Without a radical shift in the way we design, build and organize our societies this futurist dream would quickly turn into a nightmare for just about anyone.

[Metric Mouse]

Without a radical shift in the way we design, build and organize our societies this futurist dream would quickly turn into a nightmare for just about anyone.

I imagine the wilderness replaced by a massive garbage dump as far as the eye can see.