Author Topic: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?  (Read 34437 times)

Cressida

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #150 on: April 20, 2018, 11:17:45 PM »
Women have a much shorter fertility window than men, and their physical attractiveness—their primary way of attaining mates—also declines much faster (but not necessarily in a linear fashion).  If anything is sexist it's biology. If you wait too long, you may find your choices are involuntarily foreclosed. I don't think politically correct pablum helps anyone in these situations.

Oh look, an MRA. I am curious. Do you currently have a "mate" that was selected by you, based on looks, out of a pool of willing applicants? No? Huh.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #151 on: April 21, 2018, 05:07:24 AM »
We’re mid40s, no kids and I hate it. Never thought I wouldn’t be a dad. It tears at me and breaks my heart, daily. I’m jealous of every father and child. Every one. I irrationally hate absent or neglectful or cruel fathers. Yes, there is the singular consolation that are lives are easier and wealthier because of no kids. But I’d happy change everything to be a dad. So I regret, not falling in love younger and not trying for a family before it became too late.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #152 on: April 21, 2018, 05:20:20 AM »
MrThatsDifferent, have you considered adoption of a baby? You seem to have so much love to give and there are so many children who end up in the system. I have no idea on adoption and have heard it is a long process. Maybe others here can offer some ideas.

spokey doke

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #153 on: April 21, 2018, 08:37:21 AM »
Older female. No kids. No regrets. As a matter of fact I sometimes get giddily happy about my childfree choice and thank the powers that be that I chose to be childless.

Hello my doppelganger!  Not only the same facts, but I would have typed those exact same words.  The feeling of joy I have at being childfree is sometimes so enormous, when I take a mindful moment to appreciate my situation, that I feel like it is, at least, ONE good decision I have made in my life. I definitely did that RIGHT, if nothing else. And my gosh, that feels so good to appreciate and take a moment of gratitude for.

I have these moments too...I'm very fortunate and grateful.

Imma

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #154 on: April 21, 2018, 09:01:33 AM »
We’re mid40s, no kids and I hate it. Never thought I wouldn’t be a dad. It tears at me and breaks my heart, daily. I’m jealous of every father and child. Every one. I irrationally hate absent or neglectful or cruel fathers. Yes, there is the singular consolation that are lives are easier and wealthier because of no kids. But I’d happy change everything to be a dad. So I regret, not falling in love younger and not trying for a family before it became too late.

I'm so sorry for you :(  This is my biggest fear. So far I haven't responded to this thread, only read it, because while I'm childless, I'm still young so it might happen, but for medical reasons motherhood isn't a given for me. If motherhood doesn't happen, I just hope I'll be able to handle that. 

You're going to get a lot of replies saying you should adopt or foster, but while those things can be great options for some people, it's not the same. There are ethical concerns about intercultural adoption and I don't think fostering is an alternative to parenthood at all. Fostering is something that we would be interested in in the future, but it's a job, not a road to parenthood. That's why you get paid to do it. It's generally temporary and the big decisions are made by social services, not you. The job ends when the child turns 18 and many foster children do not keep in touch with their foster parents. That doesn't mean fostering isn't important, and if you're the nurturing type, it might be very fulfulling, it's just not like being a parent at all.

wenchsenior

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #155 on: April 21, 2018, 09:14:21 AM »
Women have a much shorter fertility window than men, and their physical attractiveness—their primary way of attaining mates—also declines much faster (but not necessarily in a linear fashion).  If anything is sexist it's biology. If you wait too long, you may find your choices are involuntarily foreclosed. I don't think politically correct pablum helps anyone in these situations.

Oh look, an MRA. I am curious. Do you currently have a "mate" that was selected by you, based on looks, out of a pool of willing applicants? No? Huh.

On another thread he just implied that most government employees were 'dowdy slobs'.  At least he's not trying to hide his sexism.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #156 on: April 21, 2018, 09:19:03 AM »
My suggestion is to get a dog.  Much better.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #157 on: April 21, 2018, 06:39:15 PM »
We’re mid40s, no kids and I hate it. Never thought I wouldn’t be a dad. It tears at me and breaks my heart, daily. I’m jealous of every father and child. Every one. I irrationally hate absent or neglectful or cruel fathers. Yes, there is the singular consolation that are lives are easier and wealthier because of no kids. But I’d happy change everything to be a dad. So I regret, not falling in love younger and not trying for a family before it became too late.

I'm so sorry for you :(  This is my biggest fear. So far I haven't responded to this thread, only read it, because while I'm childless, I'm still young so it might happen, but for medical reasons motherhood isn't a given for me. If motherhood doesn't happen, I just hope I'll be able to handle that. 

You're going to get a lot of replies saying you should adopt or foster, but while those things can be great options for some people, it's not the same. There are ethical concerns about intercultural adoption and I don't think fostering is an alternative to parenthood at all. Fostering is something that we would be interested in in the future, but it's a job, not a road to parenthood. That's why you get paid to do it. It's generally temporary and the big decisions are made by social services, not you. The job ends when the child turns 18 and many foster children do not keep in touch with their foster parents. That doesn't mean fostering isn't important, and if you're the nurturing type, it might be very fulfulling, it's just not like being a parent at all.

No, it’s not the same, and I never said it was the same, I said that there are many options for parenting in life and if it’s what you really want, you can choose to do one of them instead of just being really unhappy about not being a parent. I mean, when your options are to be dissatisfied with life or try and do something meaningful to fill the void...well...

Someone may have had dreams of having a perfect little kid who they can raise to be an awesome adult, but the truth is that having your own biological child doesn’t guarantee that fantasy coming true and may not be the same as what they wanted either. Plenty of bio-parents end up in realities that they never signed up for and certainly never fantasized about when they dreamed of the perfect little babies that they wanted to have, but they adapt and love and parent and thrive.

My point stands though that there are a ton of kids out there who need love and a lot of different ways to parent and love them.

Personally, for ME, fostering would be an ideal way to engage in parenting because I would prefer to parent only teenagers, especially those who have had it rough and whom no one is lining up to help.
I read an amazing article about a man who fosters terminally ill kids and provides them a really loving home in their end of life. I could see myself doing something like that too.

Just because something didn’t work out ideally in life doesn’t mean you can’t adapt and fill life with meaning, love and joy in other ways... I mean, what’s the alternative??

My hesitation in responding to this thread was knowing I was going to get a whole lot of, why don’t you just...?  As if we haven’t explored all the possibilities and ruled them out for various reasons, which I won’t go into because I have no desire to debate something so personal.

I’ll work out whatever I need to do to deal with it. I responded to answer the question, what do you regret? That’s all.

MJseast

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #158 on: April 21, 2018, 07:31:18 PM »
Mid-40s, female, marriage-free and child-free.

I do like most kids (not the bratty ones, but I don't think that's the kid's fault), and I adore my nieces and nephews. And I will say that despite not wanting children of my own, that I am very "maternal" and I know I would have been a great mom. But I didn't feel like I needed to create another human to express that - I am maternal to my nieces and nephews, to my friends, to my employees, and to my foster dogs and adopted dog.

I couldn't be happier about about my situation and feel super lucky to have known from a young age that I didn't want kids. Absolutely no regrets. Especially when my SIL makes snotty comments like, "Oh, must be nice to be able to go on ANOTHER vacation this year!" or "Must be nice to go out to dinner and sleep in." or "Must be nice to only work 5 hours a week." And I can respond, "Yes. Yes it is!" :)  OK, I don't actually respond that way, because I don't need to rub it in to someone who is miserable and stressed out 90% of the time ;).
 

okits

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #159 on: April 21, 2018, 08:00:27 PM »
We’re mid40s, no kids and I hate it. Never thought I wouldn’t be a dad. It tears at me and breaks my heart, daily. I’m jealous of every father and child. Every one. I irrationally hate absent or neglectful or cruel fathers. Yes, there is the singular consolation that are lives are easier and wealthier because of no kids. But I’d happy change everything to be a dad. So I regret, not falling in love younger and not trying for a family before it became too late.

I'm so sorry for you :(  This is my biggest fear. So far I haven't responded to this thread, only read it, because while I'm childless, I'm still young so it might happen, but for medical reasons motherhood isn't a given for me. If motherhood doesn't happen, I just hope I'll be able to handle that. 

You're going to get a lot of replies saying you should adopt or foster, but while those things can be great options for some people, it's not the same. There are ethical concerns about intercultural adoption and I don't think fostering is an alternative to parenthood at all. Fostering is something that we would be interested in in the future, but it's a job, not a road to parenthood. That's why you get paid to do it. It's generally temporary and the big decisions are made by social services, not you. The job ends when the child turns 18 and many foster children do not keep in touch with their foster parents. That doesn't mean fostering isn't important, and if you're the nurturing type, it might be very fulfulling, it's just not like being a parent at all.

No, it’s not the same, and I never said it was the same, I said that there are many options for parenting in life and if it’s what you really want, you can choose to do one of them instead of just being really unhappy about not being a parent. I mean, when your options are to be dissatisfied with life or try and do something meaningful to fill the void...well...

Someone may have had dreams of having a perfect little kid who they can raise to be an awesome adult, but the truth is that having your own biological child doesn’t guarantee that fantasy coming true and may not be the same as what they wanted either. Plenty of bio-parents end up in realities that they never signed up for and certainly never fantasized about when they dreamed of the perfect little babies that they wanted to have, but they adapt and love and parent and thrive.

My point stands though that there are a ton of kids out there who need love and a lot of different ways to parent and love them.

Personally, for ME, fostering would be an ideal way to engage in parenting because I would prefer to parent only teenagers, especially those who have had it rough and whom no one is lining up to help.
I read an amazing article about a man who fosters terminally ill kids and provides them a really loving home in their end of life. I could see myself doing something like that too.

Just because something didn’t work out ideally in life doesn’t mean you can’t adapt and fill life with meaning, love and joy in other ways... I mean, what’s the alternative??

My hesitation in responding to this thread was knowing I was going to get a whole lot of, why don’t you just...?  As if we haven’t explored all the possibilities and ruled them out for various reasons, which I won’t go into because I have no desire to debate something so personal.

I’ll work out whatever I need to do to deal with it. I responded to answer the question, what do you regret? That’s all.

@MrThatsDifferent - thanks for contributing your experience to the thread, despite that bringing out the unsolicited advice.  I hope it's helpful to the OP to see that either road taken can lead to regret.

neophyte

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #160 on: April 21, 2018, 09:22:25 PM »
Only 31 here, so no decades of experience to draw on. One of the best things about being in my 30's is that people are starting to believe me when I say I don't want children.

My mom called me a "selfish bitch" once when I mentioned I don't plan on having children, but even she seems to be coming to terms with it now.  Unlike most childfree people who like kids but don't want any of their own, I actively dislike most kids most of the time. I'll even admit it on the internet. 

So far my only real regret is losing friends when they have babies.  They seldom have time, and when they do, they don't want to do any activity that doesn't involve children. I'll suck it up and do it just to see them, but sometimes I'd honestly prefer a trip to the dentist. It also sucks to give up relationships or potential relationships over the issue of children, but I imagine we're both happier in the long run for it so I can't really regret it.

AdaBeansonFire

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #161 on: April 21, 2018, 09:37:34 PM »
Late 40's. Husband I and I tried in our late 30's....I was on board but a bit ambivalent. We made it halfway through the pregnancy but had some genetic difficulties. We tried for the next few years but it didn't work out. Do I regret anything? Not really. It was tough. I was sad for awhile but we have a good solid relationship, common dreams and goals unrelated to children and we had those from the start. Kids would have been great but it wasn't what we thought would define us. I'm super happy with our life and we have nieces and  nephews to watch and cheer for.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 09:40:51 PM by AdaBeansonFire »

Llewellyn2006

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #162 on: April 21, 2018, 11:30:07 PM »
We met when we were in our mid-late 40's. It's my first marriage but my wife's second (no children from her first) and neither of us wanted kids at all. Neither of us have any great parental instincts or any regrets either. Hearing people banging on about their kids shits me to tears and I just don't get why most couples seem to think that having kids is part of the marriage licence.

And I'm genuinely curious as to why some people think it's selfish to not want/have children, so I'm happy to hear what people think on that one.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #163 on: April 22, 2018, 10:57:35 AM »
Only 31 here, so no decades of experience to draw on. One of the best things about being in my 30's is that people are starting to believe me when I say I don't want children.

Haha, this has been my experience as well. I'm turning 31 next month and people are finally starting to believe us.....

Now a lot of our friends are younger, or older empty nesters!

HBFIRE

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #164 on: April 22, 2018, 11:09:05 AM »
31 is still quite young (I know it might not feel that way).  You'll be surprised on things you'll change your mind on down the road.  Always keep an open mind.  Aging tends to change what you value (not that I'm that old myself, but my perspective on things has changed drastically since 30 -- I know that it will continue to change).
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 11:15:29 AM by dustinst22 »

EricL

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #165 on: April 22, 2018, 11:38:08 AM »
31 is still quite young (I know it might not feel that way).  You'll be surprised on things you'll change your mind on down the road.  Always keep an open mind.  Aging tends to change what you value (not that I'm that old myself, but my perspective on things has changed drastically since 30 -- I know that it will continue to change).

31 is still plenty mature too.  And some people are more mature at 12 than others at 40.  At 50 I still believe in a lot of things I believed in at 31. Including that children aren’t for me.  Some beliefs will be due to legitimate changes in perspective and accumulated wisdom.  Others can be due to inattentive selfishness (beware the poor man who becomes rich).  Plenty relate more to middle age depression and can be adjusted by exercise, diet, and medication.  I know people with over strident (left and right) political views with that last problem.

HBFIRE

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #166 on: April 22, 2018, 11:41:10 AM »
Certainly I'm not trying to imply that one will definitely have a change of mind.  I'm just cautioning that it might happen, as it does with many people very frequently.  This is something that happened in my case.  I wish I could have cautioned my 30 year old self.  Anecdotal examples are probably not that useful as advice.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 01:57:10 PM by dustinst22 »

Gyosho

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #167 on: April 22, 2018, 12:05:40 PM »

And I'm genuinely curious as to why some people think it's selfish to not want/have children, so I'm happy to hear what people think on that one.

I'm also genuinely curious about the "selfish" or "self-serving" label that some people attach to other people who do not want to have children.

The first time I ever heard this was from a friend in college; her mother was a fervent Catholic. Her mother had told my friend, her daughter, that she could understand not wanting to have children but she felt it was selfish (presumably because she felt she had been called to be fruitful and multiply).

Are there non-religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish"?

Religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish", is this a tenant of your religion?

Like Llewellyn2006, I am "genuinely curious", and not wanting to start a flame war.

DouglasFir

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #168 on: April 22, 2018, 12:17:01 PM »
45 year old male here. Not sure if 45 is considered older or not. I have known since age 18 that having children was not for me. I've never wavered in that feeling. No regrets. I feel happy that I'm not adding to the world overpopulation problem. I want to give all of my love to my partner, when I find her. :)

FIRE Artist

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #169 on: April 22, 2018, 12:18:57 PM »

And I'm genuinely curious as to why some people think it's selfish to not want/have children, so I'm happy to hear what people think on that one.

I'm also genuinely curious about the "selfish" or "self-serving" label that some people attach to other people who do not want to have children.

The first time I ever heard this was from a friend in college; her mother was a fervent Catholic. Her mother had told my friend, her daughter, that she could understand not wanting to have children but she felt it was selfish (presumably because she felt she had been called to be fruitful and multiply).

Are there non-religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish"?

Religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish", is this a tenant of your religion?

Like Llewellyn2006, I am "genuinely curious", and not wanting to start a flame war.

Me too. 

Last year I got the “no offence, but in my experience, single, childless professional women are selfish” from an acquaintance.  Needless to say, said acquaintance is no longer being acquainted by me. 

My new favourite response to this type of comment is to shrug and say, “we get/have to be since no one else is thinking of us”.  Single, middle aged women pretty much take the award for the most invisible people out there.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #170 on: April 22, 2018, 01:39:52 PM »

And I'm genuinely curious as to why some people think it's selfish to not want/have children, so I'm happy to hear what people think on that one.

I'm also genuinely curious about the "selfish" or "self-serving" label that some people attach to other people who do not want to have children.

I've always considered it the opposite.  People are having kids for their own selfish reasons.

My feelings about having kids hasn't changed over the last 30 years.

Pizzasteve, your post disappeared, but it sounds like you made the right decision despite the gene mix curiosity.

SCUBAstache

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #171 on: April 22, 2018, 03:31:00 PM »
I didn't play with dolls as a kid, didn't like many other kids as a kid (always preferred the company of adults...or books), and for a long time thought I would never want kids. That finally started to change around age 30, but it took me another year or two to really want to try to have one instead of just being... interested in the idea. My soon to be spouse is older and already has three (almost adult) children, but when we were first dating I made sure he was open to the idea of having more kids in case I changed my mind. He always says "I love kids, it's adults I have problems with." Good thing, because he got his vasectomy reversed this year --- ouch. And it looks like we might still have to go the IVF route, so it's essential that we are both very much on the same page. That being said, am I 100% certain this is the right choice? Of course not, but I'm a questioner and never really 100% about anything, it's just my nature, and I've been around enough kids that I understand there are obvious downsides. But I'm at the point where I would regret not trying more than the alternative.

All that said I completely understand NOT wanting to have kids and would never begrudge anyone's choice. If IVF doesn't end in success I'm confident we'll have a very fulfilling life without kids of our own. And I think having kids is much more selfish than not (unless you're adopting). Good luck with your decision OP!

Milizard

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #172 on: April 22, 2018, 03:37:12 PM »

And I'm genuinely curious as to why some people think it's selfish to not want/have children, so I'm happy to hear what people think on that one.

I'm also genuinely curious about the "selfish" or "self-serving" label that some people attach to other people who do not want to have children.

The first time I ever heard this was from a friend in college; her mother was a fervent Catholic. Her mother had told my friend, her daughter, that she could understand not wanting to have children but she felt it was selfish (presumably because she felt she had been called to be fruitful and multiply).

Are there non-religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish"?

Religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish", is this a tenant of your religion?
 p
Like Llewellyn2006, I am "genuinely curious", and not wanting to start a flame war.
I've gotten flamed in the past in this sort of discussion, but you asked, so I will answer once again.  If you give primarily selfish sounding reasoning for something (focusing all or mostly upon me, myself and I--aka my freedom, my money, my sleep), then people will think your reasons are selfish.  If you are focused primarily on other people or other things, then people will take your reasoning as not or less selfish. I mean, people don't complain that priests are selfish for not having children, right. I don't think that it's just because they aren't allowed to (actually, a former priest at my church became a foster, then adoptive parent).  It's because they are devoted to serving people in other ways.  They have a different calling.  You don't have to be religious to have a different calling, but it does have to be focused on something other than yourself.

..and sometimes things just don't work out, or some have BTDT with other people's kids.  That doesn't seem selfish.  But there are selfish reasons, I'm sure mentioned earlier in the thread.  (They always are.)  There are also a few selfish reasons to have kids, but despite claims to the contrary here, I don't think they are the norm either.

okits

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #173 on: April 22, 2018, 03:38:04 PM »

And I'm genuinely curious as to why some people think it's selfish to not want/have children, so I'm happy to hear what people think on that one.

I'm also genuinely curious about the "selfish" or "self-serving" label that some people attach to other people who do not want to have children.

The first time I ever heard this was from a friend in college; her mother was a fervent Catholic. Her mother had told my friend, her daughter, that she could understand not wanting to have children but she felt it was selfish (presumably because she felt she had been called to be fruitful and multiply).

Are there non-religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish"?

Religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish", is this a tenant of your religion?

Like Llewellyn2006, I am "genuinely curious", and not wanting to start a flame war.

Me too. 

Last year I got the “no offence, but in my experience, single, childless professional women are selfish” from an acquaintance.  Needless to say, said acquaintance is no longer being acquainted by me. 

My new favourite response to this type of comment is to shrug and say, “we get/have to be since no one else is thinking of us”.  Single, middle aged women pretty much take the award for the most invisible people out there.

I'll start by saying that I don't think some degree of selfishness is a bad thing.  It is unhealthy to only look after others and not yourself.

I think offspring are traditionally considered a social good and desirable due to the instinct for survival.  A species that does not propagate itself does not have much of a foreseeable future.  More taxpayers to replenish the tax base, young workers to be productive, etc.

Getting offspring to functional adulthood takes time, effort, and financial resources.  Caregiving requires a lot of putting the dependent first, and when their kid is hungry, hurt, needing reassurance, sick, or just wanting to form emotional attachment, generally people don't throw their hands up and walk away because the parent "isn't feeling it" at the moment.  Make that near-constant for almost two decades (and sometimes, forever), and that's a lot of putting someone else first, of active selflessness.

I'm a parent of a child who had a period of serious medical problems, and I'm a friend to families with children who have life-limiting disabilities.  The kind of support and sacrifice those children deserve isn't something every potential parent wants to or can give.  I'm very happy with my choice to have children but it is definitely not right for everyone.  I'm glad there's more ability than ever to have or not have children according to each person's wishes.  I don't think the "good" of the collective (species propagation, if you consider that a good) should automatically overrule individual wants (those who don't want to parent). 

It does get tiresome to witness hostility to others who made different choices than the speaker (non parents scolded as "selfish" or "immature" and parents derided as mindless "breeders" or children talked about as though they're some sort of blight.)  It's a divisive and alienating topic.

HBFIRE

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #174 on: April 22, 2018, 03:42:45 PM »
As animals all of us act in our self interest, regardless of whether or not it appears that way.  Selfish is a silly word imo since everything we do is for our own interest already (whether directly or indirectly).

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #175 on: April 22, 2018, 08:53:45 PM »

And I'm genuinely curious as to why some people think it's selfish to not want/have children, so I'm happy to hear what people think on that one.

I'm also genuinely curious about the "selfish" or "self-serving" label that some people attach to other people who do not want to have children.

The first time I ever heard this was from a friend in college; her mother was a fervent Catholic. Her mother had told my friend, her daughter, that she could understand not wanting to have children but she felt it was selfish (presumably because she felt she had been called to be fruitful and multiply).

Are there non-religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish"?

Religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish", is this a tenant of your religion?

Like Llewellyn2006, I am "genuinely curious", and not wanting to start a flame war.

Me too. 

Last year I got the “no offence, but in my experience, single, childless professional women are selfish” from an acquaintance.  Needless to say, said acquaintance is no longer being acquainted by me. 

My new favourite response to this type of comment is to shrug and say, “we get/have to be since no one else is thinking of us”.  Single, middle aged women pretty much take the award for the most invisible people out there.

"No offense, but" is something people say when they know full well they're about to say something deliberately hurtful and generally unwarranted, but wish to avoid the otherwise predictable negative consequences. In this case, the acquaintance was about to barf out a tired and inaccurate stereotype that should have been put to bed decades ago.

"Selfish" is a word, generally applied by a person from a member of a socially powerful or advantaged group to a person from a less advantaged group who aspires to luxuries or freedom above his or her perceived station. It's OK for members of more exalted groups to enjoy things like free time unencumbered by service to others, but when a (gasp!) female has the audacity to want something besides decades of servitude, or to want something that doesn't advance the speaker's interests or ideology, the speaker takes action to stomp on that urge as quickly as possible. "Selfish" generally means "unwilling to want what I have picked out for you" or "unwilling to sacrifice your interests in favor of what I deem a more appropriate use for your time, resources, and flesh". It's just a control play, and a pretty amateur one to boot.

EricL

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #176 on: April 22, 2018, 09:18:13 PM »

And I'm genuinely curious as to why some people think it's selfish to not want/have children, so I'm happy to hear what people think on that one.

I'm also genuinely curious about the "selfish" or "self-serving" label that some people attach to other people who do not want to have children.

The first time I ever heard this was from a friend in college; her mother was a fervent Catholic. Her mother had told my friend, her daughter, that she could understand not wanting to have children but she felt it was selfish (presumably because she felt she had been called to be fruitful and multiply).

Are there non-religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish"?

Religious people who think not wanting children is "selfish", is this a tenant of your religion?

Like Llewellyn2006, I am "genuinely curious", and not wanting to start a flame war.

Me too. 

Last year I got the “no offence, but in my experience, single, childless professional women are selfish” from an acquaintance.  Needless to say, said acquaintance is no longer being acquainted by me. 

My new favourite response to this type of comment is to shrug and say, “we get/have to be since no one else is thinking of us”.  Single, middle aged women pretty much take the award for the most invisible people out there.

"No offense, but" is something people say when they know full well they're about to say something deliberately hurtful and generally unwarranted, but wish to avoid the otherwise predictable negative consequences. In this case, the acquaintance was about to barf out a tired and inaccurate stereotype that should have been put to bed decades ago.

"Selfish" is a word, generally applied by a person from a member of a socially powerful or advantaged group to a person from a less advantaged group who aspires to luxuries or freedom above his or her perceived station. It's OK for members of more exalted groups to enjoy things like free time unencumbered by service to others, but when a (gasp!) female has the audacity to want something besides decades of servitude, or to want something that doesn't advance the speaker's interests or ideology, the speaker takes action to stomp on that urge as quickly as possible. "Selfish" generally means "unwilling to want what I have picked out for you" or "unwilling to sacrifice your interests in favor of what I deem a more appropriate use for your time, resources, and flesh". It's just a control play, and a pretty amateur one to boot.

I don’t see that. A lot of privileged people get called out for being selfish. Especially wealthy do nothing CEOs and such.  A lot of people in general get called out for being selfish. Without diverting the topic, no criticism of, say, Black Lives Matter mentions their “selfishness” of wanting to walk around without needing body armor when cops are around. Nor do feminist critics rail on about women being “selfish” for not fulfilling traditional gender roles and responsibilities. A lot will even say they suck “but it’s God’s will.” 

I’m totally on board with not having children for any reason, selfish or not

Linea_Norway

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #177 on: April 23, 2018, 02:57:57 AM »
  I don't think the "good" of the collective (species propagation, if you consider that a good) should automatically overrule individual wants (those who don't want to parent). 


Parenting is  not the only 'good' job in the 'collective'. The hive needs honey bees, nursing bees, as well as the mother bee, to function well.

There are lots of childless folk who live highly productive lives in society, and plenty of parents who add nothing to the collective but trouble.

Here in Norway parents get a lot of government sponsored pregnancy and parenting leave, as well as many free days for staying home with a sick child. The childfree people sponsor all these free days by working and paying taxes. So we contribute to the collective as well.

cripes7

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #178 on: April 23, 2018, 10:40:05 AM »
I am actually on vacation with one of our adult children. I always wanted a big family, and started young. My husband didn't think he wanted to have kids or to get married at 30, but 5 kids and 32 yrs later, we've never been happier. We've had a great life, despite financial concerns, illnesses, and issues at different times. So for us, it's been the best choice and we adore our 2 grandchildren.

Nonetheless, if one of our kids chooses not to have children, we'll support that too. My advice would be to make absolutely sure of your decision. As with my husband, what he thought he wanted changed radically when he met me. He is a great dad, and credits our kids with making him a better man. Now we enjoy them as adults, embrace their life choices, and look forward to any additional grandchildren that may come into our lives.

JLee

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #179 on: April 23, 2018, 12:57:36 PM »
I'm only 25, got the snip when I was 23. I've been CF since I realized children are optional, probably around 10 or 11. My husband got a vasectomy at 25 as a wedding gift to me, and because it aligns with his values.
We'd rather regret not having children than regret having them. It mostly comes down to us not wanting to be parents in any way shape or form.
I only regret the way other peoples' words have affected me in the past, making me feel bad for my choices.

As someone who's been contemplating getting a vasectomy for a while now, I hadn't considered that perspective..that's an excellent point.

I'm 34 and have never / still do not want children. I'm hoping that's old enough that I can safely go get snipped with a minimal chance of having regrets later.

KTG

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #180 on: April 23, 2018, 02:48:28 PM »
One of the things that has always worried me about having a child too was having a child with severe disabilities. When was in college I was in a book store on tuesday afternoon, and there was a woman there flipping through music CDs (back when they sold these). She was attractive, probably in her late 30s or so. And with her, was a kid who I think was around 10 maybe 12 in what I can only describe as some kind of robot wheelchair. I can't remember if he was attached to any of it, and I didn't want to stare, but he looked to me like he was in a coma. I didn't see him reacting to anything going on in the environment. I quickly concluded that she was devoted to her son, that her husband was probably a high earner, and she tried to have some kind of normal life even though this boy required around-the-clock care.

What got to me was what would happen to this boy if he grew into a man and out-lived his parents? Who would care for him? Where would he go? These things terrified me imagining if I were in her situation.

I have never forgotten seeing them.

Even if the odds are so remote that I could end up in that situation, the fear of it and some others just added to dragging my feet to the desire to have any. My sister has had three boys are (thankfully) are very healthy, but I do have a couple of friends who deal with various disabilities. None to the degree that the woman I saw in the bookstore, but still I imagine disappointing and challenging to work with.

I guess as a parent I would do whatever it took, but if I had to choose to go take the risk of going down that road, or taking another with no risk at all, I guess I am playing it safe.

libertarian4321

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #181 on: April 23, 2018, 03:50:37 PM »
We are 55 and 52 and happily child free.

The only time I "regret" it is when I'm doing my income taxes.  I wish I had about 12 deductions.  But then I realize I'd actually have to live with the little monsters to get the deductions, and the "regret" goes away...

KTG

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Re: Older Childless Mustachians - what do you regret?
« Reply #182 on: April 24, 2018, 07:05:59 AM »
Oh, and I completely left out that as a kid myself, I was a complete terrorist. Just the notion that I would be passing my genes down to another little me, and that this kid could turn out to be even 1/2 of as bad as I was, should be enough for me to snip myself. I still sit in shame over what I put my parents through sometimes (even though things worked out in the end). I don't know how they did it. I don't think I could deal with a younger version of myself.