Author Topic: Beyond mustachism  (Read 3016 times)

yorkville

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Beyond mustachism
« on: February 19, 2020, 06:20:19 AM »
I stumbled across Mr Money Mustache back in 2012. Over years, I really took the message to heart, turning away from consumerism, practicing minimalism, developing DIY skills. However, I also noticed that gradually, such efforts seem to be less satisfying.

For example, I was on a trip recently, a mix of business and pleasure. So on personal days, I tried to find cheaper hotels. I ended up with an airbnb for about half of the hotel price. While perfectly adequate, it lacked the convenience of a downtown hotel. The mustachian in me decided to take the bus instead of taxi to the airbnb, which required me to walk 10 min in the cold, and I could not work out for couple of days as the airbnb did not have gym. After going through the trouble of packing and upacking, I was little depressed.

I felt I was stuck in a scarcity mentality, struggling for a little incremental gain. Based on 80/20 rule,  as long as I am not getting a suite at the Ritz and ordering lobster, I should have just stayed at the same hotel, and going abt my daily workout, enjoying the city.

Broadly speaking, on this forum, there is a lot of discussion about withdraw rate and how much saving one needs to FIRE. But, life is filled with uncertainties the neither withdraw rate nor saving amount can really address. Security in life can only come from one's ability to adapt. I think Mr Money Mustache certainly reflects this. He is a very talented man, from building house, coworking space, this blog, etc. To be honest, when he quit his job, I don't think he really agonized over withdraw rate or saving amount. He probably just figured he can manage his adaptablity and frugality.

Anyway, just jotting down some of my thoughts at my airbnb (typing in bed, as the room does not have a desk). Overall this is not a criticism of mustachism. I am greatful for having discovered it, but I feel I need to embrace the abundance mentality by focusing more on starting a business or going further in my career.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 10:17:35 AM by yorkville »

Hirondelle

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2020, 11:29:39 AM »
Hi yorkville,

I guess what happened to you here was not properly establishing your priorities before making a decision. You decided to go for a cheaper AirBnb based on the price, but without making sure that your alternative accomodation checked all your boxes (proximity to downtown or bus stop, gym).

It's still possible to stay in a cheaper place than the work hotel for your personal days, you'd just have to make sure what's important to you and make sure any place you stay at fits these criteria. The characteristics you mention go beyond the price level alone. There's also fancy hotels far away from downtown without gyms or desks.

Zikoris

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2020, 05:55:42 PM »
It sounds more like you just cheaped out and suffered the consequences, which I'm pretty sure nobody here is suggesting (including MMM himself). Should have found a better AirBnB that was actually what you wanted.

We like AirBnBs when we travel because we can find things SO MUCH BETTER than the hotel option, but for a fraction of the price - better location, way better amenities, much more unique and interesting places, often a lot more spacious, and all the other perks that hotels don't do. Like, when we were recently in Japan, every single one of our places had free "Pocket WIFI" that we could bring wherever we went. Super useful. We also love having a full kitchen, laundry machines, etc.

You certainly don't need to start a business or chase career growth for this whole FIRE thing to work. If you want those things, sure, rock on, but thinking it's a necessity is just wrong.

StockBeard

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2020, 09:07:27 PM »
The mustachian in me decided to take the bus instead of taxi
I'm blessed with introvert super powers which to me means that taking a bus is always a superior alternative to a taxi. I dread the idea of being trapped in a car with a taxi driver who might want to talk to me! I'll take the anonymity of a bus every day.

Telecaster

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2020, 09:41:05 PM »
I am not qualified and have no interest in defining "Mustachism" particularly.  But I try to spend my money efficiently.  If my goal is to minimize screwing around and have easy access to a gym, then a more expensive hotel might be more efficient than a cheaper AirBnB. 

ministashy

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2020, 12:45:01 AM »
I'll echo what most of the other posters have said--saving money is great, but before that it helps to identify what your priorities are, or what you're willing to spend money on.  For instance, when I travel for business, I'm getting up early, working all day, and coming back late--literally all I need is a place to plug in my hot water kettle for tea, a clean and secure bedroom so I don't worry about people rifling through my things, and a bed.  So there's no point in me paying extra for a fancy hotel with lots of amenities that I won't use, and I usually opt for an Airbnb if one is within walking distance of my venue.  (esp if they offer free parking).

On the other hand, if I'm taking some vacation time or planning a fun trip, then I might care more about amenities--a pool, access to local transit, nice restaurants nearby, whatever.  If I want to relax and indulge, then I spend the money.  But there's no point in spending any extra money if I'm not going to take advantage of what's on offer.   Though these days I find hostels more fun/interesting than most hotels anyway--neat people, lots of recommendations for things to do.  Though I usually pay extra for a private room because I prefer not to have my sleep schedule dictated by when other people are going to bed/getting up for the day.  But again, YMMV.

Other thoughts--if exercising is important to you, and you travel a lot, rather than paying for a fancy hotel, why not a less-fancy one closer to where you need to be for work (if possible), and have a gym membership at a franchise that allows you to pop in at different locations?  Or bring resistance bands and other lightweight exercise options, and do them there in the room/jog around the neighborhood?  That way you're happier and you get to exercise the frugal muscles as well as the physical ones. 

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2020, 02:08:05 PM »
I'm going to approach this differently, with something I first heard on Dave Ramsey: every dollar has a name and a purpose.  If that purpose is to maximize your comfort and you give that temporary comfort a higher value than anything else at that moment, then you probably should spend it. 

If I value that $8 slice of beautiful and delicious tiramisu more than $8 going to my 401K savings or anything else, then I should probably buy it. Without guilt.  And generally speaking, I do.  Same goes with hotel accommodations or pretty much anything else you buy.       

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2020, 08:19:00 AM »
OP, I can relate as I’ve been in your exact situation. I’m not a frugal person by nature but this site has reminded me to not be so wasteful all the time. I’m hosting a special guest at the moment and my attitude is, money’s no object, let’s just enjoy ourselves. When my guest leaves, I’ll go back to being more mindful about my money. This to me creates a better experience than stressing everyone out about spending money, even though internally I’m like: FFFUUUCCKKKK! Lol

BicycleB

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2020, 12:34:32 PM »
OP, I like that you realize MMM's own emphasis is own flexibility and an abundant life, rather than truly minimizing cost.

I like @Zikoris's attitude too - that more work is an option for creating abundance, but not the only option. Anyway, best wishes for building a thriving life.

yorkville

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2020, 02:49:08 AM »
Thanks for eveyone's thoughtful response.

I guess frugality is a kind of exercise. I think MMM had mentioned in one of the postings about developing the frugality muscle. Frugality is not the goal. Frugality is also not a mean to save enough, so one can retire early. But rather, frugality is a mean to toughen one up, so one can have more strength and flexibity to deal with challenges in life.

In that way, frugality is very similar to fasting or meditation. or perhaps it can be compared to going through a marathon training program, military boot camp, or some type of rite of passage which were prevalent in ancient societies.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 02:50:41 AM by yorkville »

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2020, 03:49:45 PM »
Thanks for eveyone's thoughtful response.

I guess frugality is a kind of exercise. I think MMM had mentioned in one of the postings about developing the frugality muscle. Frugality is not the goal. Frugality is also not a mean to save enough, so one can retire early. But rather, frugality is a mean to toughen one up, so one can have more strength and flexibity to deal with challenges in life.

In that way, frugality is very similar to fasting or meditation. or perhaps it can be compared to going through a marathon training program, military boot camp, or some type of rite of passage which were prevalent in ancient societies.

Wow. That’s an interesting take on it. Thanks for sharing that insight!

Villanelle

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2020, 04:27:21 PM »
It's never about spending less; it's about spending wisely.

Self-reflection and self-awareness are key. 

You have to know your priorities, and then also know how much you value those priorities.  If you know working out is important to you, then you have to be mindful of that.  Maybe that can mean while you travel you do cardio (you can go for a run almost anywhere) and body weight exercises.  But if you can't find an alternative, they maybe you move to a cheaper hotel (that still costs more than an Airbnb, but more than your work hotel). 

The concept of cheap vs. frugal has been discussed a lot here.  It's a nebulous concept and we are all going to define it differently, but it might help  you to think for a while and decide what it means for you.

This can also be where having a budget helps.  Personally, I don't budget and I find that it works best for me because I have to justify each and every expense on its own merit.  But for some people, it can be liberating.  If you know you have $156 left in your discretionary category, and the slightly upgraded hotel costs $103 more than the airbnb, then you have permission to do it.  Or you have $400 left in your travel budget for the year with all planned trips accounted for. 

If that works for your mentality, it might be worth considering.  The budget numbers give you permission, while still knowing that your other priorities are accounted for first.  That seems to work for a lot of people. 

damyst

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2020, 07:24:34 PM »
Although I find the "frugality muscle" to be one of MMM's most inspiring ideas, in general he spends very little time promoting frugality. He spends almost his entire time promoting efficiency and well-grounded decision making. So as multiple others have noted, you can be a perfectly good Mustachian and still book that hotel, if it makes sense.

Also, a big thumbs up for private rooms in hostels. That's my favorite arrangement by far when travelling.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 08:30:04 PM by damyst »

projekt

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2020, 07:53:58 PM »
Exactly, this is what he is talking about when he skips the relatively useless (for him) pickup truck and buys an old mini-van.  There's a little voice telling him to buy the cooler looking pickup truck and he says, "no, I really don't care about my stupid clown car so I'll get the best one for me". It's obvious he spends too much time thinking about Teslas, and he's come up with the best way to enjoy them without having to buy one. Thinking things through is big.

I moved to get some benefits of being closer to the city at the expense of having to drive to work most days.  It's about 60-65 minutes by bike. It was a huge tradeoff, but in a lot of ways I'm glad I made it.  I sometimes wish I could sell my business and buy another one closer to me, the way people sell houses, but my clients would be upset.

nirodha

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Re: Beyond mustachism
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2020, 09:21:26 PM »
Once committed, I've learned to let the experience "be what it is" and go with the flow. Otherwise you overpay or suffer, maybe even both.

My work did a retreat at a resort that was $350 a night. My wife and i decided to stay over an extra night. Rather than shuffle hotels to save $200, we just paid and enjoyed the time. I think the entire resort thing is stupid, but the memory was much better than if we'd wasted hours chasing a couple hundred bucks. I know this, because when I was younger, I would have forced the cheap option.

Similarly, she recently wanted a specific burger that was only available at a local bar. Once there, I realized it was overpriced and knew what was coming. Rather than cheap out, or insist on leaving, I embraced it. The bill ended up being $70. Our typical dinner out is more like $20-30. We won't got back often, if at all, but still enjoyed the evening. I never said - "you can't have this, because money!"

Those events are infrequent. I don't prefer them. So we typically do something else, which is cheap by the nature of what it is. The cumulative financial effect of being flexible is relatively small, but makes the difference between constant sacrifice and effortless saving. It also frees up my will power and mental space for more useful activities.