Author Topic: Obamacare updates, anyone?  (Read 20021 times)

mpbaker22

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2013, 09:30:27 AM »
Personally if I were in their shoes and angry, I think the correct target for that anger would be my doctor ("why did he decide not to accept this insurance?!"). And in any case it's not that big a deal, since there are more good doctors to choose from in NYC than in most other places on the planet.

Meh, it's not directly anyone's fault.  It's usually just a situation where the doctor and insurance company are not able to negotiate the rates that each wants in order for a business deal to be created.  It could be that the doctor is really really good and wants to be compensated accordingly, but the insurance company needs to stay within its cost bounds.  Or it could be that the insurance company is excessively greedy.  Or it could be that the doctor is excessively greedy. 
I don't think you can proclaim that it's one party's fault in each and every case.

beltim

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2013, 10:09:25 AM »

I'm calling shenanigans on both of you. Can either of you provide sources that say more people will benefit than will pay more?  To do this, Daleth would need to show how many people have ever hit a lifetime cap, and been unable to get more insurance, and compare that to the number of people who are facing higher premiums next year.  Mpbaker22, however, would need to find the number of people paying more next year compared to the number of people who will be able to get insurance who couldn't before.

To my knowledge, there's a good estimate for one of those three numbers.  There may be wild guesses for the others.  Gentlemen, care to back up your statements of research with fact?

Ok, so I can't show that there are many people losing out for each person gaining.  However, certainly there is a minimum of one person paying more for each person paying less (in California).  I haven't seen similar studies for other states, but California is also one of the few states where the enrollment is working relatively well.  The median price has gone up roughly 100%.  That means for 50% of the people, prices are doubling.  I'd guess they're going up for even more than 50%.  We'd have to compare to the number of people getting insurance, but I haven't seen those numbers since no one knows exactly at this point.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

So your statement of
Quote
for everyone who who benefits from the law, there are a large number of people losing out.  For example, if I quit my job in January, my cost of insurance on the individual market will be at least three times higher than it was last January.
only applies to people on the individual market?  And your metric for benefitting or losing out is only the cost of insurance available to people on the individual market?

mpbaker22

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2013, 11:03:48 AM »

I'm calling shenanigans on both of you. Can either of you provide sources that say more people will benefit than will pay more?  To do this, Daleth would need to show how many people have ever hit a lifetime cap, and been unable to get more insurance, and compare that to the number of people who are facing higher premiums next year.  Mpbaker22, however, would need to find the number of people paying more next year compared to the number of people who will be able to get insurance who couldn't before.

To my knowledge, there's a good estimate for one of those three numbers.  There may be wild guesses for the others.  Gentlemen, care to back up your statements of research with fact?

Ok, so I can't show that there are many people losing out for each person gaining.  However, certainly there is a minimum of one person paying more for each person paying less (in California).  I haven't seen similar studies for other states, but California is also one of the few states where the enrollment is working relatively well.  The median price has gone up roughly 100%.  That means for 50% of the people, prices are doubling.  I'd guess they're going up for even more than 50%.  We'd have to compare to the number of people getting insurance, but I haven't seen those numbers since no one knows exactly at this point.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

So your statement of
Quote
for everyone who who benefits from the law, there are a large number of people losing out.  For example, if I quit my job in January, my cost of insurance on the individual market will be at least three times higher than it was last January.
only applies to people on the individual market?  And your metric for benefitting or losing out is only the cost of insurance available to people on the individual market?

To the first part, no.  Those who are benefiting are largely those who are uninsured and will now be on the individual market.
To the second part, yes.  If you're paying twice as much for the same thing, you're losing out.

beltim

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2013, 11:28:29 AM »

So your statement of
Quote
for everyone who who benefits from the law, there are a large number of people losing out.  For example, if I quit my job in January, my cost of insurance on the individual market will be at least three times higher than it was last January.
only applies to people on the individual market?  And your metric for benefitting or losing out is only the cost of insurance available to people on the individual market?

To the first part, no.  Those who are benefiting are largely those who are uninsured and will now be on the individual market.
To the second part, yes.  If you're paying twice as much for the same thing, you're losing out.

Okay, so where's your data for the number of people who are getting insurance who had not?

mpbaker22

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2013, 11:44:37 AM »

So your statement of
Quote
for everyone who who benefits from the law, there are a large number of people losing out.  For example, if I quit my job in January, my cost of insurance on the individual market will be at least three times higher than it was last January.
only applies to people on the individual market?  And your metric for benefitting or losing out is only the cost of insurance available to people on the individual market?

To the first part, no.  Those who are benefiting are largely those who are uninsured and will now be on the individual market.
To the second part, yes.  If you're paying twice as much for the same thing, you're losing out.

Okay, so where's your data for the number of people who are getting insurance who had not?

The original comment may not have been correct.  That being said, it's certainly not one that can be disproved with current numbers.  It appears that the number of insured will be lower on Jan 1, 2014 than it was on Jan 1, 2013.  That would suggest a negative number who are getting insurance.  You add to that the number who will pay less, and that number is likely far-outweighed by those paying less.

beltim

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2013, 01:16:44 PM »

The original comment may not have been correct.  That being said, it's certainly not one that can be disproved with current numbers.
My point exactly.  Neither you nor Daleth actually has the data to support your positions.

Quote
It appears that the number of insured will be lower on Jan 1, 2014 than it was on Jan 1, 2013.  That would suggest a negative number who are getting insurance.  You add to that the number who will pay less, and that number is likely far-outweighed by those paying less.

What's your source for the smaller number of insured?  That doesn't smell right to me.

mpbaker22

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2013, 02:59:25 PM »

The original comment may not have been correct.  That being said, it's certainly not one that can be disproved with current numbers.
My point exactly.  Neither you nor Daleth actually has the data to support your positions.

Quote
It appears that the number of insured will be lower on Jan 1, 2014 than it was on Jan 1, 2013.  That would suggest a negative number who are getting insurance.  You add to that the number who will pay less, and that number is likely far-outweighed by those paying less.

What's your source for the smaller number of insured?  That doesn't smell right to me.

Every news source in existence.  Why don't you search Google.

beltim

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2013, 02:04:47 AM »

The original comment may not have been correct.  That being said, it's certainly not one that can be disproved with current numbers.
My point exactly.  Neither you nor Daleth actually has the data to support your positions.

Quote
It appears that the number of insured will be lower on Jan 1, 2014 than it was on Jan 1, 2013.  That would suggest a negative number who are getting insurance.  You add to that the number who will pay less, and that number is likely far-outweighed by those paying less.

What's your source for the smaller number of insured?  That doesn't smell right to me.

Every news source in existence.  Why don't you search Google.

Well, the number of people insured on Jan 1, 2014 won't be known until after that point, so if you have your time machine google to search, I'd love to borrow it.  Until then, don't pretend that data exists when it doesn't, and that I'm too stupid to look for it.  That data doesn't exist yet.

gimp

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2013, 10:33:57 AM »
I don't know why it's impossible to have a discussion of how this affects us personally, as the OP asked, instead of devolving into politics and economics.

None of us are smart enough to fully understand either the long-term nor short-term effects. No need to pretend.

dorkus619

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2013, 11:48:51 AM »
This year I went with my employer plan again (and I don't see too much difference this year vs last. But all my coworkers with PPOs won't quit bitching about the price increases) This will be my 3rd year with a HDHP + HSA. It works well for me because I have no maintenance drugs or conditions, I take good care of myself in terms of nutrition and exercise, and I avoid doctor visits. I will sweat out a fever and find holistic home remedies when possible. I do take advantage of the free annual wellness visits and free birth control.

My plan is $40/month. Actually it's $130, but we have some incentives I qualify for: -$75/month for tobacco free and -$15/month for taking online health assessments.
I will contribute ~$55/month to my HSA.
My employer will contribute $650 to my HSA this year also.

Specifics:
$2,500 deductible (which I'll have in my HSA)
$5,000 OOP Max (future goal HSA balance)

In addition I opted in for Vision and Dental. Combined those add about $20/month


Bottom Line: $115/month for Health, Vision, Dental


Peony

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2013, 11:54:00 AM »
I just signed up this morning via the NY State exchange site. There were no good HSA options, unfortunately. That is what I had wanted but the premium was $500 per month, significantly more than I am paying for a bottom-of-the-line silver plan.

I will pay roughly $275 per month. My deductible is $1,750; I wish that were lower. The plan does not cover vision or dental. My plan is with a new company, so there is no quality rating yet; I'll just have to hope it's OK. As I've been uninsured for the last 2 years, I am glad to have something that does not seem to be total crap, and may even be good. My normal practitioners are not on the plan but there is a decent local clinic that participates, so I will probably start going there for care. It appears that my plan will pay up to $400 per year for a gym, which would be at least 75% of the membership fee at the YMCA where I like to swim. If I'm understanding that correctly, it's a big plus.

I had been hemming and hawing about actually signing up, but fell and injured my ankle pretty badly last night, and pulled the trigger this morning. As I was writhing in pain I found myself saying, 'Please don't be broken, please don't be broken,' and realized I should not wait. I was lucky to escape an emergency-room visit. If medical attention is needed later on I will try my best to wait until Jan. 2.

Daleth

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Re: Obamacare updates, anyone?
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2013, 01:04:19 PM »
Peony obviously knows, but I'm just posting to make sure everyone else heard that the deadline has been extended. Instead of 12/23, 12/24 (today) is the deadline for signing up if you want coverage to begin on Jan. 1. You can sign up later, of course, but your coverage will begin later (I would assume on Feb. 1, but I'm not sure).

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/obamacare-deadline-extended