Poll

Is it being too nosy to see what your coworkers earn or your neighbors home values on public websites?

Too nosy, I wouldn't do it.
11 (9.6%)
It's nosy, but I do it.
58 (50.4%)
Not nosy, it's my right.
46 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 111

Author Topic: Nosiness  (Read 9881 times)

projekt

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Nosiness
« on: November 26, 2013, 06:43:20 AM »
In my state, state worker compensation and property records are on easy to access websites. What do you guys think of people who use these services? Do you use them?

I was inspired to poll this question because of another discussion where someone said his salary is publicly visible.

GuitarStv

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 07:08:24 AM »
Why would you care?


EDIT - sorry, that was in reference to government worker's salaries.  Unless you are looking for a job with a particular branch of gov't, I'm just not sure why anyone cares what the salaries are for those employees.  Property stuff would be useful for ballparking home value of course.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 12:01:09 PM by GuitarStv »

simonsez

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 07:49:55 AM »
My salary is publicly visible as a federal employee who doesn't work on any super-secret stuff*.  So is my mother's as a teacher.  Aren't firefighters and police officers as well in most places?

So was the entire public university's employee list (10000+) when I worked at the library in undergrad in this huge book called "The Gray Book."  It was at the reference section and could be used by any patron.

I think it is interesting to peruse on occasion but I would not call it my right.  I do not think it is a bad thing that public employees have their salaries made visible to the taxpayers that are paying those salaries (including the public employees themselves).  I do not think it should be a secret.  How easily accessed it is for the public is a matter for debate but I won't lose sleep one way or the other.  If you want your salary to be secret, don't be a public employee.

The salaries do have a use as a research tool IMO. 

Federal bonus:  http://php.app.com/fed_employees12/search.php

Search* if you dare!

*-Employees involved in security work, the FBI, CIA, Defense Department, nuclear materials, IRS, and jobs essential to national security are excluded.

Russ

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 08:15:35 AM »
I don't think it's a *right*, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

I wish people would be more open about this stuff in the first place.

galaxie

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 08:33:40 AM »
I kind of think that the taboo against sharing salary information is counterproductive both to free-market ideals and to pro-labor folks.  For free-market employment to work properly, employees need to know how much they're worth so they can charge appropriately.  From an organized labor point of view, discouraging employees from discussing their pay prevents them from becoming aware of any unfair practices that might be going on. 

It's only good from the POV of the employer - I don't know how they got everyone to internalize it like we have.  (And it's definitely not an equally strong taboo everywhere.  My first-gen immigrant family members do not think twice about asking how much a person makes or how much an item cost to buy.)

RootofGood

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 08:53:45 AM »
Former govt employee.  Publicly published salary. 

I don't see a problem with it.  I feel (kind of weakly) it is a right for the public to know what we as taxpayers are paying people.  It also comes in handy when the newspaper does an expose on all the overpaid government appointees when a new administration takes over.  Like all the "Public Relations Executives" hired for $80-90k/yr at age 23 (ie former campaign staffers for the governor that need a place to park their rear parts till 2015 or so when the next campaigns crank up).  As an employee, I liked the transparency, because I could see what areas in my employer (or other agencies) had a potential for higher salaries.  It also helps combat discrimination, since you can see what others with similar qualifications make, and judge for yourself their likely membership or absence from particular protected classes.  As others have said here - it benefits the employees.   

I have seen some local school districts report the payroll data semi-anonymously, as in (Teacher, Masters, 23 years Salary = $45,440; Principal I, Small School $67,820).  The latter semi-anonymous is good enough for my public disclosure tastes. 

iris lily

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 09:09:54 AM »
In my state, state worker compensation and property records are on easy to access websites. What do you guys think of people who use these services? Do you use them?

I was inspired to poll this question because of another discussion where someone said his salary is publicly visible.

Of course I use them! How else do I find out what my neighbor paid for their house? haha!

Hey, seriously,how ELSE do I find out that the lot I bought for $4,000 back 25 years ago is now worth $95,000?

hybrid

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2013, 10:48:52 AM »
It seems like two very different questions to me, so I did not respond to the survey.

As for property values, it's simply determining the value of a thing (and usually the tax that is paid on it).  As for salaries, it's a lot more complicated.  I used to work for a government agency, and everyone knowing what everyone else made did not make for a healthier environment.  Inevitably the lower paid but more productive employees came to resent their better paid but underperforming counterparts and that created problems.  And in the state government there isn't much remedy for this situation.  It's not like a supervisor could simply change salaries significantly up or down based on performance, raises were almost always across the board, dead weight was hard to get rid of, and special compensation came very rarely.

I work for a private employer now and salaries are confidential.  Even as the IT guy with access to literally everything there are doors I dare never open.  And even if I could, what of it?  Folks are either doing their jobs or they aren't.  If they aren't satisfied with their compensation they can seek greener pastures elsewhere.

MMM speaks of the low information diet, and salaries of peers are one of those things I'd rather know less about than more.

Lina

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 10:51:34 AM »
In my country everyones salaries are public. You can call the tax authorities and get all the information you want. You can also buy the information on internet. Most of the newspapers have lists of the highearners in your community etc.

I work for the government and the union has made a list with the salaries of all employees in my work place. The list was valuable for determining my position in my salary negotiation.

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 11:01:32 AM »
It seems like two very different questions to me, so I did not respond to the survey.

Same here. I didn't answer, because I felt like the question itself was flawed.

tomk2

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 11:23:03 AM »
I do feel more strongly about the house price than the salary as I think it's a good idea to be aware of property values in your area, especially if you can refinance to get better rates or eliminate mortgage insurance. We plan to move in the next few years, so I keep an eye on sales in my neighborhood pretty closely. In my county, there's a $10 filing fee for the deed, and frequently sales are reported as a $10 transaction, which is not so helpful.

I've never actually looked up public salaries before, but I'm happy to know I could. I don't feel that strongly about the "I'm a taxpayer" aspect of it, but I think, generally, the more transparency the better. The employer I work for publishes salary ranges for every position level, and I think for the most part, that's helpful for understanding my value if I wanted to stay there or take another job elsewhere.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 06:38:51 PM by tomk2 »

Nords

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 06:09:10 PM »
In my state, state worker compensation and property records are on easy to access websites. What do you guys think of people who use these services? Do you use them?
I was inspired to poll this question because of another discussion where someone said his salary is publicly visible.
I think humans would all be a lot better at financial management and sex if those topics were more public.  We'd also be a lot less likely to be exploited...

olivia

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 08:00:05 PM »
I was a state employee and everyone's salaries were published that were over a certain dollar amount…I think the cut off was anything above $50k?  I looked-why not?  It's public!  I wouldn't go digging in someone's drawer for a paystub, but if it's published information, I'd certainly take a peek if I was curious.

oldtoyota

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 08:04:32 PM »
None of the answers applied to me, so I did not pick one.

Like others, I don't think it's my right. I've looked from time to time though.


projekt

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2013, 07:19:09 AM »
Well, I think if the government provides something, it's your right to use it. Like, a public park. There may be no inalienable natural right to using a piece of grassland, but it's your right if it's a public park.

MoneyCat

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2013, 08:58:56 AM »
I think it's important to try to find out what your co-workers make, so you can tell if you are being cheated by your employer.  I was able to wring raises out of several bosses that way.  (And, boy, were they angry about it.  Not my problem.)

simonsez

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2013, 09:12:35 AM »
Well, I think if the government provides something, it's your right to use it. Like, a public park. There may be no inalienable natural right to using a piece of grassland, but it's your right if it's a public park.
You can have whatever definition you want but obviously it doesn't make for the world's most robust poll when the options are:

a) not mutually exclusive or don't cover all the options for a given question
b) many here, myself included, did not participate in the poll

That said, I don't think you will find too many polls that generate discussions which include input (or as much %-wise) from NON-voters so at least the subject matter must be worthy.

Franklin

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2013, 09:27:18 AM »
For the public sector I think salary info is the business of every citizen.  Not so much for the private sector.  In the public sector payrolls are based on budget, time in service, and grade.  In the private sector it is a meritocracy and salary is nobody's business but the employer and employee.  It would be just as intrusive as a publicly available annual evaluation. 

hybrid

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2013, 09:44:40 AM »
I was a state employee and everyone's salaries were published that were over a certain dollar amount…I think the cut off was anything above $50k?  I looked-why not?  It's public!  I wouldn't go digging in someone's drawer for a paystub, but if it's published information, I'd certainly take a peek if I was curious.

I would argue that you were in fact digging through (virtual) drawers looking at paystubs. To what end I have to ask?  Did you look at all the various salaries, say to your self, "Hmmmm.... exactly as I would have compensated them" or did you find yourself irritated instead at some or many of the results?   

I'm not arguing against the notion that public employees salaries should be publicly available, I'm simply pointing out that for the lay individual the knowledge can be counter-productive.  It certainly was where I worked, but perhaps it's different elsewhere.  Any other public sector folks have different experiences?

Once a few years back a spreadsheet with secretarial salaries was accidentally left at a copier.  I returned it to my supervisor, but I couldn't help but notice a few of the numbers when I picked it up.  The knowledge brought me no satisfaction whatsoever, the opposite in fact.

Nords

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2013, 10:39:08 PM »
I think it's important to try to find out what your co-workers make, so you can tell if you are being cheated by your employer.  I was able to wring raises out of several bosses that way.  (And, boy, were they angry about it.  Not my problem.)
Of course there's the problem of working in a company where people treat each other that way.

When I was on active duty, one of my commanding officers had a previous tour on the staff of a carrier battlegroup.  Because he was a nuclear-trained submariner, he was earning submarine pay and some bonus money.  At his O-5 payscale, with the extra pay, it turned out that he was making more money than the O-7 battlegroup admiral.  The admiral took such umbrage at the perceived indignity that he stopped speaking to the guy. 

Pay & allowance tables are publicly available in the U.S. military (for the last six decades:  http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html), and it was someone else on the staff who pointed out the difference (at the humorous expense of the admiral's "dignity").  My CO said that it was a blessing in disguise because he never had to talk to the admiral for the rest of his tour...

Rural

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2013, 05:19:23 AM »
The local paper has recently started publishing land and property sales each week, including sales price and appraised value (almost all sales have been 20% or more below appraisal, so I think there's a political point being made). At any rate, there have been some irate letters to the editor and I can't fathom why. You can find more info than that on the tax assessor's website no more than a week or so later. I guess most people don't know that, though.

On the salaries, I guess I was the one who brought it up in another thread. Mine's published annually, along with travel expenses, as is every state employee's pay. That includes public school teachers, so anyone who wants to know could figure our what our household brings in annually (minus my side hustle). But you know what? Anyone who knows us well enough to know our names and where we work has a pretty good ballpark idea already. The only surprise is likely to be how little I make, because people somehow think college professors are rich.


NinetyFour

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2013, 06:35:42 AM »
I used the link above (for federal employees) to find out what my younger brother makes.  Almost twice what I do.  I am trying to not be jealous by reminding myself that he lives in a very expensive area and is probably not nearly as mustachian as I am.

I like the transparency.  My salary is public as well, since I work for a publicly funded institution.  I could easily find out what all of my colleagues make, but I am an angry enough person as it is.  (Working on it!)

ender

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Re: Nosiness
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2013, 07:06:46 AM »
I know exactly what a coworker makes (much more than me) because my company has a fairly rigid salary grade system.

He feels bad he makes more than me, lol.