No Quality EVs Under $60k

[neo von retorch]

Not sure if anyone has seen this, but this shows the performance/fun potential of EV's for non-believers.......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2b_bGBuamY

Very fun watching a replay of my last few laps on Laguna Seca in Gran Turismo 6.

[GuitarStv]

Not sure if anyone has seen this, but this shows the performance/fun potential of EV's for non-believers.......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2b_bGBuamY

Very fun watching a replay of my last few laps on Laguna Seca in Gran Turismo 6.

So, the part of driving that makes things 'fun' for people is mostly just a 'vroom vroom' sound?

[neo von retorch]

So, the part of driving that makes things 'fun' for people is mostly just a 'vroom vroom' sound?

I'd say "yes" and "no." The driver in that video made it clear the car could perform. It was very fast, cornered very well, remained stable even if the turning/power managed to break traction... It also maintained performance for multiple laps without overheating (which many electric cars struggle with.)

I think the simulation of the gears, engine and exhaust noises activates the part of the brain that learned racing in cars (or games) that made those kinds of noises. So it fits your expectations of a "sports car" in the context of racing. But his laugh out loud moments were more about the car doing "performance" car things like breaking traction but recovering quickly.

I think there's also an "eeriness" to going very fast with very little noise - this just removes the eeriness. You can witness some of that "strangeness" when he hits the boost button and goes very fast but the noise cuts out. (I'd be curious if everyone finds that section of the video weird, or it's just me.)

[dividendman]

When did $60k become reasonable? We need a "quality EVs for Under $15k" thread, with recommendations on what used EVs are best for under that price.

[EchoStache]

When did $60k become reasonable? We need a "quality EVs for Under $15k" thread, with recommendations on what used EVs are best for under that price.

This is an unrealistically low price threshold. It is possible, perhaps highly likely, that a $20k EV will have a lower TCO over 10 years than a $10k ICE car.  Perhaps even any used EV under the $25k tax credit cap.

[bacchi]

When did $60k become reasonable? We need a "quality EVs for Under $15k" thread, with recommendations on what used EVs are best for under that price.

This is an unrealistically low price threshold. It is possible, perhaps highly likely, that a $20k EV will have a lower TCO over 10 years than a $10k ICE car.  Perhaps even any used EV under the $25k tax credit cap.

While true, dividendman has a point. This is an eco-frugality forum and sales of $60k+ EVs have slowed down for a reason (namely, not everyone can afford a $60k car, especially with current interest rates). A lot of us here could, of course, but don't want to for various reasons.

"No Quality EVs Under $25k"?

[Scandium]

When did $60k become reasonable? We need a "quality EVs for Under $15k" thread, with recommendations on what used EVs are best for under that price.

This is an unrealistically low price threshold. It is possible, perhaps highly likely, that a $20k EV will have a lower TCO over 10 years than a $10k ICE car.  Perhaps even any used EV under the $25k tax credit cap.

While true, dividendman has a point. This is an eco-frugality forum and sales of $60k+ EVs have slowed down for a reason (namely, not everyone can afford a $60k car, especially with current interest rates). A lot of us here could, of course, but don't want to for various reasons.

"No Quality EVs Under $25k"?

That's basically what I want. Since that's around what a "reasonable, used-but-recent" car cost these days. One step up from finding a beater on craigslists. I don't know where this $60k came from, that's not a reasonable car for anyone, and can't imagine why anyone here would consider anything close to that (though I know several have..)

It's still a close call, even at that price. I finally set up some calcs for the costs. Looked at some use Ioniq 5 I saw for ~$28k, or estimated ~$7k if I trade my current car. I assumed all charging at home, at my current rate (0.19 $/kWh), and drive 8000 mi/year, and two oil changes (i.e. zero on the EV). I only save $612 per year! So it would take over 11 years to make my money back in fuel costs. And that's assuming the battery lasts that long.. Even if I drive the average 12k/year it's still over 8.5 years.

Everyone needs to do their own numbers but it's hard to make a huge differences, unless the EV cost only a few dollars more. Versus my 33 mpg car I only save $5.28 per 100 mile driven (+oil savings, call that $1.58/100mi). That basically means i have to drive 14,572 miles for every $1000 more I pay for an EV, before I make back the costs.

(this is of course ignoring that those $x thousand over those 10 years would double if invested instead, and that the batteries might be toast after 10 years (?), and the car is effectively totaled)

[dividendman]

I drive a 2007 Prius that I bought in 2017 for $7000.

The dealer will give me no-look $2000 for it today.

I've spent about $500/year on overall maintenance (including tires, 125k full workup, etc.).

I get 45 MPG and have driven about 75k miles in those 7 years.

So, my total cost of ownership (TCO) is about $16.8k over those 7 years (including driving). If you add in insurance at ~500/yr it's ~$20.3k, or ~$2900/yr to own and operate it, including depreciation. I've also used very conservative numbers.

Electric cars are worse on original purchase price, worse depreciation (by a lot), worse for tires (by 20% according to google), worse for insurance (by 20% according to google).

Now, they are better at maintenance, supposedly, by about 50% according to Google (though I would love to see how much it costs to maintain a 10 year old electric). Even if we factor that in, the electric car is going to be worse on my budget in total and per mile than my Prius just on depreciation alone.

Even if you look now at a used Prius, Carmax has 2014 Prius ~$15k at the mileage I bought mine at 7 years ago (~75k miles). You'd probably be better off getting that than any electric for TCO, especially depreciation, and never have any range anxiety.

[mizzourah2006]

I don't think for most it's trade in your perfectly good fuel efficient vehicle for an EV. But if you need a new car (your car gets totaled as an example). There are perfectly reasonable EV options that are around the price point of similar non-EV vehicles unless of course you are ok with buying very used vehicles (which some people are).

[desertadapted]

I don't know, guys.  I was just on Carvana and it appears that a used 2023 Bolt is about $10,000 less than a used 2023 Prius.  Depreciation can be your friend. 

[EchoStache]

Even if you look now at a used Prius, Carmax has 2014 Prius ~$15k at the mileage I bought mine at 7 years ago (~75k miles). You'd probably be better off getting that than any electric for TCO, especially depreciation, and never have any range anxiety.

This is a pretty absurd argument if you think a ten year old, 100,000 75,000 mile ICE car will have a lower TCO than a 3 year old Chevy Bolt with extremely low miles and new battery with 10 year warranty for about the same price.  It's obvious you prefer gas cars, but this is a silly statement. 

[GilesMM]

When did $60k become reasonable? We need a "quality EVs for Under $15k" thread, with recommendations on what used EVs are best for under that price.

This is an unrealistically low price threshold. It is possible, perhaps highly likely, that a $20k EV will have a lower TCO over 10 years than a $10k ICE car.  Perhaps even any used EV under the $25k tax credit cap.

While true, dividendman has a point. This is an eco-frugality forum and sales of $60k+ EVs have slowed down for a reason (namely, not everyone can afford a $60k car, especially with current interest rates). A lot of us here could, of course, but don't want to for various reasons.

"No Quality EVs Under $25k"?

Agreed.  EVs, given all their issues and limitations, should logically be priced LESS than ICE vehicles, not more.  The cool factor allowed them to be priced high for a few years but if they really want to become mainstream, they need to get seriously cheap.

[Jack0Life]

When did $60k become reasonable? We need a "quality EVs for Under $15k" thread, with recommendations on what used EVs are best for under that price.

You must have not read the title carefully.
It specifically say under $60k.
I got a brand new Tesla Model Y long range AWD for under $40k with no bullshit.
I can't think of any car right now that can compete with my Model Y for under $40k.
Name any car under $40k and we can compare specs.

[dividendman]

When did $60k become reasonable? We need a "quality EVs for Under $15k" thread, with recommendations on what used EVs are best for under that price.

You must have not read the title carefully.
It specifically say under $60k.
I got a brand new Tesla Model Y long range AWD for under $40k with no bullshit.
I can't think of any car right now that can compete with my Model Y for under $40k.
Name any car under $40k and we can compare specs.

Yeah, I get that it says "under 60k", but that ceiling is too high.

Also... specs? Does your Tesla get you to places my Prius can't? I guess I'm confused about what a car should do.

To me, a car is a device that can get me from A to B with low cost and as fast as speed limits allow. I'm unsure how a Tesla is superior to any other car in this regard and seems inferior to my Prius in at least two dimensions: charging time and availability of charging - where gas fill ups are fast and gas stations are ubiquitous. So, buying a Tesla, or other EV, is paying a hefty premium for an inferior device.

[JLee]

I drive a 2007 Prius that I bought in 2017 for $7000.

The dealer will give me no-look $2000 for it today.

I've spent about $500/year on overall maintenance (including tires, 125k full workup, etc.).

I get 45 MPG and have driven about 75k miles in those 7 years.

So, my total cost of ownership (TCO) is about $16.8k over those 7 years (including driving). If you add in insurance at ~500/yr it's ~$20.3k, or ~$2900/yr to own and operate it, including depreciation. I've also used very conservative numbers.

Electric cars are worse on original purchase price, worse depreciation (by a lot), worse for tires (by 20% according to google), worse for insurance (by 20% according to google).

Now, they are better at maintenance, supposedly, by about 50% according to Google (though I would love to see how much it costs to maintain a 10 year old electric). Even if we factor that in, the electric car is going to be worse on my budget in total and per mile than my Prius just on depreciation alone.

Even if you look now at a used Prius, Carmax has 2014 Prius ~$15k at the mileage I bought mine at 7 years ago (~75k miles). You'd probably be better off getting that than any electric for TCO, especially depreciation, and never have any range anxiety.

Insurance is not always what you think it will be.  My insurance ($250k/$500k, $1k collision deductible / $0 comprehensive deductible, with new car replacement rider) for my Rivian R1T is only ~$300 a year more than what you are paying for your 17yo Prius.

Remember depreciation is just as much your friend as it is your enemy, it just depends on the side of the coin you're on.  "Omg don't buy an electric car, it'll be worthless in three years" -- or "Buy a three year old electric car because its lost all its value".

[Scandium]

Even if you look now at a used Prius, Carmax has 2014 Prius ~$15k at the mileage I bought mine at 7 years ago (~75k miles). You'd probably be better off getting that than any electric for TCO, especially depreciation, and never have any range anxiety.

This is a pretty absurd argument if you think a ten year old, 100,000 75,000 mile ICE car will have a lower TCO than a 3 year old Chevy Bolt with extremely low miles and new battery with 10 year warranty for about the same price.  It's obvious you prefer gas cars, but this is a silly statement.

No, that's the point, or part of it; can you show me a prius-sized EV from 2015, that can go 400 miles with a <20 min fill up time, that costs $15-20k? I think no? (I found some Bolt at $25k?). I don't know the charging speed.. Even if I'm willing to compromises some on range, you're still getting less, for more $. Because EVs are too new, and tech is changing fast. So dollar for dollar, you get the same or better utility (going A-B) with an ICE, unfortunately.  I want to like EVs, I hate gas cars, I don't care about car-stuff, they are a tool. But the financials have to make sense! I'll admit the Bolt is close, but I'm still very hesitant about american car manufacturers and their historical awful record on reliability. I hope we can get to price-parity in the next few years, and the drop in EV prices will continue as new models come out.

[JLee]

Even if you look now at a used Prius, Carmax has 2014 Prius ~$15k at the mileage I bought mine at 7 years ago (~75k miles). You'd probably be better off getting that than any electric for TCO, especially depreciation, and never have any range anxiety.

This is a pretty absurd argument if you think a ten year old, 100,000 75,000 mile ICE car will have a lower TCO than a 3 year old Chevy Bolt with extremely low miles and new battery with 10 year warranty for about the same price.  It's obvious you prefer gas cars, but this is a silly statement.

No, that's the point, or part of it; can you show me a prius-sized EV from 2015, that can go 400 miles with a <20 min fill up time, that costs $15-20k? I think no? (I found some Bolt at $25k?). I don't know the charging speed.. Even if I'm willing to compromises some on range, you're still getting less, for more $. Because EVs are too new, and tech is changing fast. So dollar for dollar, you get the same or better utility (going A-B) with an ICE, unfortunately.  I want to like EVs, I hate gas cars, I don't care about car-stuff, they are a tool. But the financials have to make sense! I'll admit the Bolt is close, but I'm still very hesitant about american car manufacturers and their historical awful record on reliability. I hope we can get to price-parity in the next few years, and the drop in EV prices will continue as new models come out.

FWIW I bought a Bolt in 2019 for $19k.  You could buy them brand new last year for $20k after tax credit.

It's funny...this forum is all about "ride your bike everywhere" until the topic of EVs comes up, then it's "but I need 400 miles of range!!!!"

[Just Joe]

Insurance is not always what you think it will be.  My insurance ($250k/$500k, $1k collision deductible / $0 comprehensive deductible, with new car replacement rider) for my Rivian R1T is only ~$300 a year more than what you are paying for your 17yo Prius.

Remember depreciation is just as much your friend as it is your enemy, it just depends on the side of the coin you're on.  "Omg don't buy an electric car, it'll be worthless in three years" -- or "Buy a three year old electric car because its lost all its value".

Cost of insurance cost is probably a local situation too. My relative in the big metro says XYZ insurance is expensive but in our smallish town in the same state the same insurance is quite affordable if everything is bundled in and you are a long term customer with a clean record.

FWIW a policy on a 3-4 year old Hyundai Kona electric is about the same here as the insurance on our ten year old MDX. Quoted two days ago.

Plenty of used EVs available with <25K miles for ~$15K-$20K. In my book that is more or less new. That's what I'm shopping for. Plan on keeping it a very long time. Battery degradation seems to be about ~10% per 100K miles. Even at ~25% degradation an EV that started out with 250 miles of range will exceed our needs. 

Missed a good EV this week by stopping to think about it. ;) 

[Scandium]

Even if you look now at a used Prius, Carmax has 2014 Prius ~$15k at the mileage I bought mine at 7 years ago (~75k miles). You'd probably be better off getting that than any electric for TCO, especially depreciation, and never have any range anxiety.

This is a pretty absurd argument if you think a ten year old, 100,000 75,000 mile ICE car will have a lower TCO than a 3 year old Chevy Bolt with extremely low miles and new battery with 10 year warranty for about the same price.  It's obvious you prefer gas cars, but this is a silly statement.

No, that's the point, or part of it; can you show me a prius-sized EV from 2015, that can go 400 miles with a <20 min fill up time, that costs $15-20k? I think no? (I found some Bolt at $25k?). I don't know the charging speed.. Even if I'm willing to compromises some on range, you're still getting less, for more $. Because EVs are too new, and tech is changing fast. So dollar for dollar, you get the same or better utility (going A-B) with an ICE, unfortunately.  I want to like EVs, I hate gas cars, I don't care about car-stuff, they are a tool. But the financials have to make sense! I'll admit the Bolt is close, but I'm still very hesitant about american car manufacturers and their historical awful record on reliability. I hope we can get to price-parity in the next few years, and the drop in EV prices will continue as new models come out.

FWIW I bought a Bolt in 2019 for $19k.  You could buy them brand new last year for $20k after tax credit.

It's funny...this forum is all about "ride your bike everywhere" until the topic of EVs comes up, then it's "but I need 400 miles of range!!!!"

Well, car prices have gone up about 35%+ since 2019, so that's not very relevant. And I didn't see any bolt for sale now for less than $25k, but I didn't look that hard. (and still have questions on brand quality)

And yes, since I try to ride my bike locally, since I have to own a car I want it to do as much as possible! So if they had exact parity on TCO if one goes 200 mi and another 450 mi on a "tank", then one is more useful. So for less convenience I want lower price/TCO. It's not a big deal, I'd be fine with 250 miles, but TCO also isn't equal, it's often more.

If I'm buying a smaller, slighty crappier prius that goes less far, I want a decent discount. And in any case, I usually choose to pay a bit more for something that's higher quality and will last longer. None of these QC-issue riddled EVs have filled me with confidence. Certainly not enough to pay a premium

[dividendman]

Even if you look now at a used Prius, Carmax has 2014 Prius ~$15k at the mileage I bought mine at 7 years ago (~75k miles). You'd probably be better off getting that than any electric for TCO, especially depreciation, and never have any range anxiety.

This is a pretty absurd argument if you think a ten year old, 100,000 75,000 mile ICE car will have a lower TCO than a 3 year old Chevy Bolt with extremely low miles and new battery with 10 year warranty for about the same price.  It's obvious you prefer gas cars, but this is a silly statement.

I don't prefer gas cars for any other reason than price pretty much. The charge time is a little annoying but not that much of a problem, range is a larger concern but I'd still live with it if the price was an advantage. I'm curious where you find the 3 year old Bolts for near 15k? I only see > 20k on carmax for any Bolts > 2020. I agree these are close and if they get lower I'll consider it once my trusty old Prius dies.

edited for: But this is the discussion I wish we had for most of the thread. How to get a decent EV for cheap! (< 20k or < 25k vs < 60k). I made it a goal to not buy a car for > $10k after my first stupid car purchase... but I think inflation is making that goal not feasible... $15k is still a decent high end target though.

[Just Joe]

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[Jack0Life]

When did $60k become reasonable? We need a "quality EVs for Under $15k" thread, with recommendations on what used EVs are best for under that price.

You must have not read the title carefully.
It specifically say under $60k.
I got a brand new Tesla Model Y long range AWD for under $40k with no bullshit.
I can't think of any car right now that can compete with my Model Y for under $40k.
Name any car under $40k and we can compare specs.

Yeah, I get that it says "under 60k", but that ceiling is too high.

Also... specs? Does your Tesla get you to places my Prius can't? I guess I'm confused about what a car should do.

To me, a car is a device that can get me from A to B with low cost and as fast as speed limits allow. I'm unsure how a Tesla is superior to any other car in this regard and seems inferior to my Prius in at least two dimensions: charging time and availability of charging - where gas fill ups are fast and gas stations are ubiquitous. So, buying a Tesla, or other EV, is paying a hefty premium for an inferior device.

So if you just want to get from point A to B, then you're in the wrong discussion.
We're trying to compare apple to apple here.
For some of us who are pass the point of frugality, I don't see any car that can compare with a Model Y in it's price range.
Comparing new to new, the Prius Prime is more expensive and the normal Prius is around the same price range.
Used, you can get Tesla super cheap now.
One negative thing is that Tesla doesn't depreciate well. Too many unknowns and people don't want to buy used Teslas.
Sorry but my Model Y goes from 0-60 in 4.2 secs and is fun as hell to drive. Prius can't do that.
Not to mention I can have 24/7 security cameras and much more cargo spaces.

I will add another negative to Tesla is the insurance.
When we replaced the Lexus for the Tesla, the price increase was very minimal but we went from a 2015 car to a 2024 car. But the insurance premium is real. Lots of Tesla owners are complaining about this.

[Scandium]

This year, my wife got a new job and it's a 85 mile round trip.(3 days a week)
Driving her Lexus would costly but I wanted for her to have something fun to drive.
We first talked about a hybrid and then a PHEV like the Prius Prime but a decent one would have been $40k++ but most Toyota dealers are just scumbags.
Then why wife said " what about a Tesla " ? That set the wheel in motion.
I was waiting for 2024 to get one for the $7500 credit as in '23, we hardly made any money for the credit.
Didn't even know about the POS fed credit until 2024 came around.
As soon as Tesla implemented the POS in Jan, I surprised her with one.
A Model Y awd long range that was $52,000. Minus $5100 discount an $7500 came to $39,400.
$39,400 + $1400 delivery fee - $16,200 for the Lexus trade in, we ended up paying a little over $25k out the door.

I was just curious about this, so looked at your numbers. With that savings for your wife's drive she'll have to do that 3x week for 9.93 years to make back the cost of the Tesla.. Or if you'd invested that $25k it would double in that time; so it will take 19.86 years. Add in savings on your other driving you might bring it to "only" 12-14 years to make it up.. So yeah, if you wanted a Tesla fine, but no surprise; buying a $50k car is not a way to "save money"..

[JLee]

Even if you look now at a used Prius, Carmax has 2014 Prius ~$15k at the mileage I bought mine at 7 years ago (~75k miles). You'd probably be better off getting that than any electric for TCO, especially depreciation, and never have any range anxiety.

This is a pretty absurd argument if you think a ten year old, 100,000 75,000 mile ICE car will have a lower TCO than a 3 year old Chevy Bolt with extremely low miles and new battery with 10 year warranty for about the same price.  It's obvious you prefer gas cars, but this is a silly statement.

No, that's the point, or part of it; can you show me a prius-sized EV from 2015, that can go 400 miles with a <20 min fill up time, that costs $15-20k? I think no? (I found some Bolt at $25k?). I don't know the charging speed.. Even if I'm willing to compromises some on range, you're still getting less, for more $. Because EVs are too new, and tech is changing fast. So dollar for dollar, you get the same or better utility (going A-B) with an ICE, unfortunately.  I want to like EVs, I hate gas cars, I don't care about car-stuff, they are a tool. But the financials have to make sense! I'll admit the Bolt is close, but I'm still very hesitant about american car manufacturers and their historical awful record on reliability. I hope we can get to price-parity in the next few years, and the drop in EV prices will continue as new models come out.

FWIW I bought a Bolt in 2019 for $19k.  You could buy them brand new last year for $20k after tax credit.

It's funny...this forum is all about "ride your bike everywhere" until the topic of EVs comes up, then it's "but I need 400 miles of range!!!!"

Well, car prices have gone up about 35%+ since 2019, so that's not very relevant. And I didn't see any bolt for sale now for less than $25k, but I didn't look that hard. (and still have questions on brand quality)

And yes, since I try to ride my bike locally, since I have to own a car I want it to do as much as possible! So if they had exact parity on TCO if one goes 200 mi and another 450 mi on a "tank", then one is more useful. So for less convenience I want lower price/TCO. It's not a big deal, I'd be fine with 250 miles, but TCO also isn't equal, it's often more.

If I'm buying a smaller, slighty crappier prius that goes less far, I want a decent discount. And in any case, I usually choose to pay a bit more for something that's higher quality and will last longer. None of these QC-issue riddled EVs have filled me with confidence. Certainly not enough to pay a premium

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

[Jack0Life]

This year, my wife got a new job and it's a 85 mile round trip.(3 days a week)
Driving her Lexus would costly but I wanted for her to have something fun to drive.
We first talked about a hybrid and then a PHEV like the Prius Prime but a decent one would have been $40k++ but most Toyota dealers are just scumbags.
Then why wife said " what about a Tesla " ? That set the wheel in motion.
I was waiting for 2024 to get one for the $7500 credit as in '23, we hardly made any money for the credit.
Didn't even know about the POS fed credit until 2024 came around.
As soon as Tesla implemented the POS in Jan, I surprised her with one.
A Model Y awd long range that was $52,000. Minus $5100 discount an $7500 came to $39,400.
$39,400 + $1400 delivery fee - $16,200 for the Lexus trade in, we ended up paying a little over $25k out the door.

I was just curious about this, so looked at your numbers. With that savings for your wife's drive she'll have to do that 3x week for 9.93 years to make back the cost of the Tesla.. Or if you'd invested that $25k it would double in that time; so it will take 19.86 years. Add in savings on your other driving you might bring it to "only" 12-14 years to make it up.. So yeah, if you wanted a Tesla fine, but no surprise; buying a $50k car is not a way to "save money"..

This thread isn't about "savings" money. It's about EV compares to ICE cars, new vs new.
I don't see anywhere in my post that I bought a Tesla to "save" money.
And lets' correct the $50k shall we ?? It was $40k.
We are close to retirement. No need to save another $25k. Time to enjoy quality of life.

[mizzourah2006]

I'm not sure a comparison between a Prius and a Model Y makes much sense. The Model Y has much more space all around. It's just a bigger vehicle. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Rav4. Why would anyone own a Rav4 when they could just own a Corolla? After all the Corolla is much cheaper and it gets you from point A to point B.

Plus, it obviously depends on where you are, but I get about ~130 MPG when charging at home and more when you factor in the free charging I can get at my gym, which is right near where I work (I biked to work from the gym today and am charging for the weekend), compared to an AWD Prius that gets ~50 MPG. Buying both new today. You can get the AWD Model Y delivered for $42k after the federal rebate and the Prius XLE AWD with an infotainment system and upgraded roof (similar to Tesla) for $36k, so a $6k difference. If you just go with the base XLE AWD you are at $34.5k. If you don't need AWD the Toyota Prius XLE compared to the RWD Model Y is about a $4k difference, but again it's apples to oranges because of the difference in size of the vehicles. If you don't need additional space it may not matter to you. But the difference isn't really that substantial buying both new.

It's definitely true though that Prius' have been around for a lot longer so if you want a 10 year old 100k+ mile car that you only want to pay $12k for a Prius will always beat out a Tesla, but you can find older Model 3's in the 100k mile range for high teens. Another thing that was mentioned was quick fillups. If you are routinely doing 300+ mile trips obviously a gas vehicle is still going to be more convenient. For me that's fewer than 10x a year and we have another vehicle that's a hybrid PHEV that we often take on those trips.


Again, I don't think anyone is out here saying sell your vehicle today and buy an EV. I think the point of this thread is for those unaware EV prices have come down substantially in the past 1-1.5 years. Honestly, I stumbled upon the Model Y. I was so out of the loop I didn't know Tesla made anything but the X, S, and 3. I definitely wouldn't consider myself an EV fanboy. I had no plans to get one, so hadn't looked into them at all. I needed a new car because someone hit me and totaled mine. Everything was expensive, I need a decently sized vehicle that could also get my bikes to the trails, so I started looking at EV's and PHEV options and found the Y and it met most of my needs and was almost as cheap or cheaper than most similarly sized vehicles I was looking at.

[Just Joe]

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https://www.cars.com
https://www.edmunds.com
Sign up for "Beneplace" perhaps. Did that and found a $200 discount on a car I had been looking at.
https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/
https://www.recurrentauto.com/for-shoppers
https://www.enterprisecarsales.com
https://www.hertzcarsales.com/used-cars-for-sale.html

Anyone know more national websites? Most cars are not listed on every website.

Interestingly if you find the VIN of a particular vehicle you can search for it using your favorite search engine. Sometimes cars will be listed at different prices on different websites. Go into the dealer armed with that printed on paper and make that lower price your starting point. Usually small price differences.

At least with one retailer who had a car I was looking at - the online price kept slipping over the course of the month. The 1st day of the next month the price reset to a higher price ~$750 online. If you know the lowest price they listed, perhaps you can start at that price point in your negotiations.

I found a vehicle I liked and then signed up for Beneplace using my disposable email address and found it again for $200 less.

An EV is not the perfect tool. I think it is a move in the right direction from a utility standpoint. However it remains a tool best used as a local/regional car and not a travel car. Unless it is a Rivian or Tesla. I don't think the TCO pencils out yet either due to the initial depreciation but as a long term vehicle, it might still work in the owner's favor.

For DW and I it will be a great car for a high percentage of our needs and we have a V6 SUV and a utility trailer for everything else.

Hope all that is useful for someone.

[Scandium]

So if you just want to get from point A to B, then you're in the wrong discussion.
We're trying to compare apple to apple here.
For some of us who are pass the point of frugality, I don't see any car that can compare with a Model Y in it's price range.
Comparing new to new, the Prius Prime is more expensive and the normal Prius is around the same price range.
Used, you can get Tesla super cheap now.
One negative thing is that Tesla doesn't depreciate well. Too many unknowns and people don't want to buy used Teslas.
Sorry but my Model Y goes from 0-60 in 4.2 secs and is fun as hell to drive. Prius can't do that.
Not to mention I can have 24/7 security cameras and much more cargo spaces.

Ok, you're right then I am in the wrong place. I'm here to save money, precisely to "enjoy life" as you say. And spending 25 grand on a necessary evil/tool does not give me any joy. No matter how much "vroom!" it has.. Especially not compared to everything else I could have done with that kind of money! That's several months of traveling around europe, months of freedom to do what I want etc etc. Or.. a fancy metal box with extra bling, that will accelerate to the next red light really fast? Not a contest.
I also have a sizable portfolio, but that doesn't mean I throw money around like it's meaningless. I still shop for the extra $5 off, or an extra 3% cashback. I'm frugal by nature, not by necessity. 

[Scandium]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

[JLee]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

[Scandium]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

[mizzourah2006]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

But I think the problem we are hearing from you is that every car manufacturer making EVs today is "junk" so I find it curious why you are continuing to engage in this thread. Bored at work?

[JLee]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

The starting point of the discussion was indeed "less than $60k", but then someone posted this:

No, that's the point, or part of it; can you show me a prius-sized EV from 2015, that can go 400 miles with a <20 min fill up time, that costs $15-20k? I think no? (I found some Bolt at $25k?).

Why would someone do that, I wonder?

[bacchi]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

Right. The price is objective, regionally speaking, but "quality" is more spongy. I'd be skeptical of an 8 year old Chevy, too, though the Bolt does have excellent battery management.

[RWD]

Anyone know more national websites? Most cars are not listed on every website.

AutoTempest is an aggregator of multiple listing sites, another good resource.

[Scandium]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

But I think the problem we are hearing from you is that every car manufacturer making EVs today is "junk" so I find it curious why you are continuing to engage in this thread. Bored at work?

Yes, because they are? But that's just the facts, based on researching rankings, lists, recalls etc. (objectively Chevy has made junk, for decades. That's not news, or in question). I'm sorry if this is inconvenient to someone and the emotional bond they have with the Rivian they paid $80,000 for. I thought the whole point of this site/forum/cult was to be thoughtful with spending, including spending more for quality and longevity. Not just dropping $50k on a car because "electric, go fast"

I engage with this because I'd genuinely like to find a quality EV for less than $25k.

[JLee]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

But I think the problem we are hearing from you is that every car manufacturer making EVs today is "junk" so I find it curious why you are continuing to engage in this thread. Bored at work?

Yes, because they are? But that's just the facts, based on researching rankings, lists, recalls etc. (objectively Chevy has made junk, for decades. That's not news, or in question). I'm sorry if this is inconvenient to someone and the emotional bond they have with the Rivian they paid $80,000 for. I thought the whole point of this site/forum/cult was to be thoughtful with spending, including spending more for quality and longevity. Not just dropping $50k on a car because "electric, go fast"

I engage with this because I'd genuinely like to find a quality EV for less than $25k.

We live in a very strange world if a 2007 Prius is a quality car and a 2024 Bolt is junk.

[RWD]

The oldest 2017 Bolts are not the only ones for sale for cheap. I see 2020-2021 models for $16k - $20k.

[JLee]

The oldest 2017 Bolts are not the only ones for sale for cheap. I see 2020-2021 models for $16k - $20k.

FWIW my SO bought a new 2024 EUV last year for $23k after tax credit.  It got totaled by someone a couple months ago and she was paid out over $28k.  There have been sub-$25k options for years, and some peoples' complete refusal to consider them as a viable option for a "sub $25k EV" is nothing short of baffling.

[Jack0Life]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

But I think the problem we are hearing from you is that every car manufacturer making EVs today is "junk" so I find it curious why you are continuing to engage in this thread. Bored at work?

Yes, because they are? But that's just the facts, based on researching rankings, lists, recalls etc. (objectively Chevy has made junk, for decades. That's not news, or in question). I'm sorry if this is inconvenient to someone and the emotional bond they have with the Rivian they paid $80,000 for. I thought the whole point of this site/forum/cult was to be thoughtful with spending, including spending more for quality and longevity. Not just dropping $50k on a car because "electric, go fast"

I engage with this because I'd genuinely like to find a quality EV for less than $25k.

Then you should start another thread with "find a quality EV for less than $25k."

[Scandium]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

But I think the problem we are hearing from you is that every car manufacturer making EVs today is "junk" so I find it curious why you are continuing to engage in this thread. Bored at work?

Yes, because they are? But that's just the facts, based on researching rankings, lists, recalls etc. (objectively Chevy has made junk, for decades. That's not news, or in question). I'm sorry if this is inconvenient to someone and the emotional bond they have with the Rivian they paid $80,000 for. I thought the whole point of this site/forum/cult was to be thoughtful with spending, including spending more for quality and longevity. Not just dropping $50k on a car because "electric, go fast"

I engage with this because I'd genuinely like to find a quality EV for less than $25k.

We live in a very strange world if a 2007 Prius is a quality car and a 2024 Bolt is junk.

I never said that. I wouldn't buy a 2007 prius either. But I would be much more confident in an old prius (the most reliable car, from the most reliable company) than any chevy. If one buy a car for a decade+, this is important.

[desertadapted]

So a lot of smack talk about the Chevy Bolt.  Just wanted to share my own real-life experience.  Also includes a cost comparison with my Subaru Crosstrek.

I own a 2016 Crosstrek and a 2018 Bolt.  I have ~120,000 miles on each car and I’ve owned both since new .  The Bolt cost ~$4,000 more than the Crosstrek after tax credit  (getting a used low-mileage 2023 Bolt is less than $20K before sales taxes and  tax credit right now; I paid way more than that new six years ago – this was before the Model 3 was in general production and there was definitely an early-adopter cost for EV’s).

My rough summary of cost of ownership of each vehicle over 120,000 miles:

2018 Bolt. 
Fuel (my actual cost is $0.06 per KWH);  and efficiency of 4 miles per KWH (rounded down from my actual efficiency of 4.2 miles/KWH) =  $1,800 of charging costs.
Add the purchase of a Level 2 charger and associated wiring = $1,200
Add actual maintenance cost, including 5-year/150,000 mile maintenance, tire rebalancing and repairing ~ $500 of damage = $1,000
Add $400 of random high-speed charging (I think it’s less than this, but I’m not actually bothering to search years of records).
Total = $4,400

2016 Crosstrek.
I used the combined MPG of 29 (from the internet).  My actual MPG lower because we do mostly city driving, but I can’t recreate the actual number. 
Total 4,138 gallons of gas.  I assumed $3.50 per gallon, though where I live it has mostly been above that =  $14,483
Assume 20 oil changes (every 6,000 miles),   less 4 oil changes for the 30,000, 60,000, 90,000, and 120,000 maintenance.
So 16 oil changes x $70 = $1,120
$500 each for the major maintenance at the 30,000 mile increments (my actual costs are higher for both oil changes and major scheduled maintenance, but there’s always some guy who says their maintenance costs are super low and I don’t want to hear it).
Also had a brake job and an unscheduled engine sensor repair not included here because I don’t want to find the numbers.
Total = $17,603

So, I’m about $9,000 ahead with my Bolt vs my Subaru over a 120,000 period on each vehicle.  Both cars are great.  Both cars have their faults.   

If I bought them used under current conditions (used 2023 MY with about 20,000 miles, using Carvana prices), the delta would be closer to $16,000 in favor of the Bolt because Bolts have a lower resale value, which doesn’t hurt you if you buy used and drive until death (car’s or yours, whichever).

YMMV.

I write this not to convince the trolls (you know who you are). Just wanted to share with folks who are EV curious, of which there are some in this thread.

[Just Joe]

Anyone know more national websites? Most cars are not listed on every website.

AutoTempest is an aggregator of multiple listing sites, another good resource.

Thanks!

Also: iSeecars.com

A person can spend 30 minutes visiting saved searches at each car search engine and have a good look at what is available in your region. Set up a session in your web browser so it automatically loads the tabs and you can plow through the searches a couple times per day until you find what you want.

Edited to add: coworker drives ~45 miles each way to work in a 2019 Bolt. Don't know the total miles b/c they may drive alot beyond their work commute. No troubles the entire ownership of their car. Add electricity, wash it occasionally, buy wipers/tires/cabin filter from time to time.

There are high mileage examples of every car. Look them up and see what the condition of the car is. Use Recurrent and see if they have records of the battery condition. I'm seeing Hyundais and Bolts (LG battery) with 160K+ miles with little battery degradation just like Tesla.

I want to buy something that just runs and runs like our Hondas have. We've had very good service out of GM/Chevy ICE too despite other people's opinion of them. Recently sold a Chevy with ~200K miles. Have another that our youngest drives with ~180K miles I think. Doesn't burn oil, stays fixed. Just thirsty b/c it is big and heavy.

We're not buying luxury EVs yet. Just shopping durable EVs. 

[nereo]

We are casually considering a Bolt for commuting - but it we have a fully functioning PHEV.  After riding in one several times I think it's a very nice car.

At this stage we would not buy another Prius, new or used. When we bought our PHEV we checked out the Prius Prime but quickly ruled it out (in part because it had a much shorter range in MY 2018-2022).  In 2024 any vehicle that has an ICE engine isn't for us - particularly since we plan on keeping our cars for 10+ years and don't want to be dealing with an ICE engine in the 2030s. 

[RWD]

Anyone know more national websites? Most cars are not listed on every website.

AutoTempest is an aggregator of multiple listing sites, another good resource.

Thanks!

Also: iSeecars.com

A person can spend 30 minutes visiting saved searches at each car search engine and have a good look at what is available in your region. Set up a session in your web browser so it automatically loads the tabs and you can plow through the searches a couple times per day until you find what you want.

When we bought a car in 2018 I set up Autotrader to e-mail me with any new listing for the specific model/years/color. When the right car showed up I called immediately and basically bought it before the listing was even updated with pictures (they did send me pictures via e-mail).

[maizefolk]

In 2024 any vehicle that has an ICE engine isn't for us - particularly since we plan on keeping our cars for 10+ years and don't want to be dealing with an ICE engine in the 2030s.

This is an important and I think underrated consideration. When I moved out to CA in 2022, I was shocked how many EVs I saw on the road. Less than two years later, back in my non-coastal home state, the density of EVs is at least as high as it was out there two years ago.

The 2034 experience of driving an ICE could well be quite different (and not for the better) than it is today. Higher taxes. Fewer gas stations. People annoyed at how ICEs hold up traffic by accelerating so slowly from stop signs and traffic lights.

[GilesMM]

So a lot of smack talk about the Chevy Bolt.  Just wanted to share my own real-life experience.  Also includes a cost comparison with my Subaru Crosstrek.

I own a 2016 Crosstrek and a 2018 Bolt.  I have ~120,000 miles on each car and I’ve owned both since new .  The Bolt cost ~$4,000 more than the Crosstrek after tax credit  (getting a used low-mileage 2023 Bolt is less than $20K before sales taxes and  tax credit right now; I paid way more than that new six years ago – this was before the Model 3 was in general production and there was definitely an early-adopter cost for EV’s).

My rough summary of cost of ownership of each vehicle over 120,000 miles:

2018 Bolt. 
Fuel (my actual cost is $0.06 per KWH);  and efficiency of 4 miles per KWH (rounded down from my actual efficiency of 4.2 miles/KWH) =  $1,800 of charging costs.
Add the purchase of a Level 2 charger and associated wiring = $1,200
Add actual maintenance cost, including 5-year/150,000 mile maintenance, tire rebalancing and repairing ~ $500 of damage = $1,000
Add $400 of random high-speed charging (I think it’s less than this, but I’m not actually bothering to search years of records).
Total = $4,400

2016 Crosstrek.
I used the combined MPG of 29 (from the internet).  My actual MPG lower because we do mostly city driving, but I can’t recreate the actual number. 
Total 4,138 gallons of gas.  I assumed $3.50 per gallon, though where I live it has mostly been above that =  $14,483
Assume 20 oil changes (every 6,000 miles),   less 4 oil changes for the 30,000, 60,000, 90,000, and 120,000 maintenance.
So 16 oil changes x $70 = $1,120
$500 each for the major maintenance at the 30,000 mile increments (my actual costs are higher for both oil changes and major scheduled maintenance, but there’s always some guy who says their maintenance costs are super low and I don’t want to hear it).
Also had a brake job and an unscheduled engine sensor repair not included here because I don’t want to find the numbers.
Total = $17,603

So, I’m about $9,000 ahead with my Bolt vs my Subaru over a 120,000 period on each vehicle.  Both cars are great.  Both cars have their faults.   

If I bought them used under current conditions (used 2023 MY with about 20,000 miles, using Carvana prices), the delta would be closer to $16,000 in favor of the Bolt because Bolts have a lower resale value, which doesn’t hurt you if you buy used and drive until death (car’s or yours, whichever).

YMMV.

I write this not to convince the trolls (you know who you are). Just wanted to share with folks who are EV curious, of which there are some in this thread.

How did you manage to get 120,000 miles on one set of tires on each vehicle??

[EchoStache]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

But I think the problem we are hearing from you is that every car manufacturer making EVs today is "junk" so I find it curious why you are continuing to engage in this thread. Bored at work?

Yes, because they are? But that's just the facts, based on researching rankings, lists, recalls etc. (objectively Chevy has made junk, for decades. That's not news, or in question). I'm sorry if this is inconvenient to someone and the emotional bond they have with the Rivian they paid $80,000 for. I thought the whole point of this site/forum/cult was to be thoughtful with spending, including spending more for quality and longevity. Not just dropping $50k on a car because "electric, go fast"

I engage with this because I'd genuinely like to find a quality EV for less than $25k.

1) 2020 Chevy Bolt with 29k miles for $15,600.  $11,600 for those that qualify for the used EV credit. 

All Chevy Bolts will have brand new or nearly brand new replacement batteries with full 10 year 100,000 mile warranties in place. 

 This will result in significantly lower TCO than probably any ICE car over an 8-10 year ownership period.

[EchoStache]

5 seconds of effort:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2397&zip=02840#listing=364871442/NONE/DEFAULT

Lol, no thanks. I'm not buying an 8 year old Chevy! That's a terrible idea for a normal car. A Toyota maybe, maybe, but not new-tech by chevy.

So you acknowledge that there are, in fact, Bolts for sale under $25k -- you just don't want to buy one.  That's fine, but don't come in here spewing nonsense because you aren't willing to exert any effort to prove your own assertion.

Uhm, yeah ok sure. There are all kinds of old, junky cars for sale for a few thousand bucks. Guess I kinda assumed we'd limit it to above a certain level of quality/reliability. Eespecially since the starting point was "less than $60k". And it did included the word "quality", which I at least would not apply to a 2017 bolt. Spending 15k on a car that might have couple years left before the (old tech) battery dies is not particularly appealing, no.

2-3 year old Chevy Bolts are going for under $20k with 8 year 100,000 mile battery warranty.

[dividendman]

Again, all Chevy Bolts will have brand new or nearly brand new replacement batteries with full 10 year 100,000 mile warranties in place. 

Why is this the case? Do you have to buy from a Chevy dealer for this on the used cars?