New vs used Rav4

[406MtnFire]

Hey All,

I'm looking to purchase a Rav4. My intention would be to own it for 5-10 years.  They seem to hold their value pretty well where I'm not sure if a used one for ~$20k with ~100k miles is worth the savings over a new one for ~$35k.  I assume the 2.5l toyota motor and Rav4 should be good to 300k miles? 

Curious if most other have just bought new Rav4s (or other Toyotas)

Thanks!

[Glenstache]

Take a look at the hybrid version. Depending on your mileage, they extra up front pays back pretty quickly in reduced gas usage. I bought my 2022 new, but that was also part of the weird pandemic phase where they bought my used subaru for 10% more than I paid for it. I've not looked at the new/used economics lately. If 2wd works for you, then those get better mileage than the awd gas-only variants. My brother has a 2wd prior generation rav4 and gets over 30mpg.

[Telecaster]

I have a 2011 Rav4 with the 2.5L which I bought new.   Been a really good vehicle.   I plan on keeping it a few more years.

But you pointed out the dilemma with used Toyotas.   You don't get much discount for buying used.  And you could even make the argument that the used ones get bid up because they are reliable and affordable.   I'd probably lean towards new, if the upfront cost isn't a deterrent. 

[jeninco]

We've been eying the RAV4 primes -- the plug-in hybrid model. They should qualify for some decent tax deductions, can function as all-electric around town, and get (alas, just OK) OK mileage for longer trips.

[Just Joe]

IMHO I would buy anything with the fewest miles possible. You might be good to your vehicles but the previous owner(s) might not have been. The cosmetic stuff is easy enough to spo but I mean the driveline.

I'm shopping our first EV right now. Unable to know how the battery was treated, I'm shopping low mileage used EVs.

Many years ago we bought a car with 47K miles. Was a former leased vehicle. Still have it now with 135K miles. No problems.

[roomtempmayo]

They seem to hold their value pretty well where I'm not sure if a used one for ~$20k with ~100k miles is worth the savings over a new one for ~$35k. 

20k is too much for a vehicle with 100k on it.  You can hope it's only 1/3 used up, but it might be half done already.  And you're not getting any warranty with the used one, or knowledge of how it's been driven.

Used cars in general are still too expensive.  Better to buy once and cry once.

[TimCFJ40]

I drive and have owned several used Toyotas, and high mileage doesn't bother me much.  Currently have a Land Cruiser with 276k miles and a Tacoma with 216k miles that I'd drive across the country tomorrow with no qualms...

A Used one with 100k miles for $20k lost $15k of value over that first 100k miles.  At 200k it'll be worth ~$6-8k, so the second 100k miles will cost a bit less but not much.  Add in a little maintenance in the 100-200k range and it's a break even with new.  The best deal is a well cared for 200k mile Rav4, but that may be outside of your comfort zone.  Also, with high mileage Toyotas, care and maintenance vary wildly.  I've seen 200k mile vehicles look and feel almost new, and I've seen 100k mile vehicles absolutely trashed, so shop based on care and condition. 

Another note, the Rav4 and CRV are wildly popular, and hold their value ridiculously.  The last time we looked at buying one, we bought a used Acura RDX (basically a luxury CRV) for less than comparable CRV/RAV4s, so also consider the Acura RDX and Lexus NX and RX. 

I'm currently looking for a newish used Civic Hatchback, and have the same issue.   

[wageslave23]

Buy new. Used car prices are not worth right now, ever since the pandemic.  I've done the math six ways to Sunday and can never make it work out for buying used over new. At least for toyotas and Hondas.

[Telecaster]

Another note, the Rav4 and CRV are wildly popular, and hold their value ridiculously.  The last time we looked at buying one, we bought a used Acura RDX (basically a luxury CRV) for less than comparable CRV/RAV4s, so also consider the Acura RDX and Lexus NX and RX. 

That's a great tip!   

[obstinate]

Anyone who has tried to sell a car used can tell you that you take a significant haircut. That benefit is going to someone. Private party, it's going to the buyer. If you sell to a dealer, the benefit goes to the dealer. Of course, the eventual buyer also pays a premium to buy from a dealer.

In order to make a used car purchase worth it, the car has to have been driven a significant amount, and the purchase needs to be private party. Think, 60k+ miles. You can get significant savings this way. Anyone who tells you otherwise is looking at craigslist asking prices, which is an absolutely mad way to think about buying an asset where the final price is negotiated.

[LD_TAndK]

CUVs in general are in high demand and hence a poor value. The RAV4 is overhyped and the poorest value of them all. Do you really need the CUV form factor? You'd probably be better served by a different vehicle.

[Ron Scott]

My daughter just went through all this with the Rav4 and we settled on a new Subaru Crosstrek. She loves it.

[obstinate]

CUVs in general are in high demand and hence a poor value.

Tbh I don't find this perspective to be supported by the evidence. A new RAV4 is scarcely more expensive than a new Camry. And why would it be? It's not like there is some limited natural supply of CUVs compared to other cars. If demand is higher, they just make more of them.

[Ron Scott]

CUVs in general are in high demand and hence a poor value.

Tbh I don't find this perspective to be supported by the evidence. A new RAV4 is scarcely more expensive than a new Camry. And why would it be? It's not like there is some limited natural supply of CUVs compared to other cars. If demand is higher, they just make more of them.

I was surprised to learn the Rav4 actually costs $2-3K MORE than a Camry. That sounds backwards to me.

[wageslave23]

CUVs in general are in high demand and hence a poor value.

Tbh I don't find this perspective to be supported by the evidence. A new RAV4 is scarcely more expensive than a new Camry. And why would it be? It's not like there is some limited natural supply of CUVs compared to other cars. If demand is higher, they just make more of them.

Mostly you are right. They charge a few thousand more for Rav 4 because people will pay it. There's no shortage of RAV 4s. Sienna on the other hand... they don't make hardly any LEs and not enough XLEs so it's impossible to get an LE and 3 month wait for an XLE loaded with options you don't want.  Ask me how I know :(

[obstinate]

I was surprised to learn the Rav4 actually costs $2-3K MORE than a Camry. That sounds backwards to me.

Rav4 gross vehicle weight is about 10% more than the Camry, and they are about equally fancy of cars. On first principles, it doesn't seem unreasonable for it to cost 10% more.

[406MtnFire]

I've recently learned about the Highlanders, they seem like a better fit for tall people or young families. Any experience? Are they worth the extra cost?

[obstinate]

I've recently learned about the Highlanders, they seem like a better fit for tall people or young families. Any experience? Are they worth the extra cost?

No reason to ever get a Highlander when you could have a Sienna instead.

[Ron Scott]

I've recently learned about the Highlanders, they seem like a better fit for tall people or young families. Any experience? Are they worth the extra cost?

A buddy has owned multiple Highlanders over many years. The latest model is the best by a wide margin. A great ride and option for someone who needs a little more car than a Camry or RAV4 and doesn’t need a bus.

[MMMarbleheader]

CUVs in general are in high demand and hence a poor value.

Tbh I don't find this perspective to be supported by the evidence. A new RAV4 is scarcely more expensive than a new Camry. And why would it be? It's not like there is some limited natural supply of CUVs compared to other cars. If demand is higher, they just make more of them.

Mostly you are right. They charge a few thousand more for Rav 4 because people will pay it. There's no shortage of RAV 4s. Sienna on the other hand... they don't make hardly any LEs and not enough XLEs so it's impossible to get an LE and 3 month wait for an XLE loaded with options you don't want.  Ask me how I know :(

Aint that the truth. They seem to be pushing the "grand" highlanders on everyone.

I was able to tack down a 2023 LE FWD for MSRP. I just had to email every sales manager in New England. Turns out Holton, ME had a allocation no one wanted. My local dealer was a 1 year wait...

Love the Sienna, such a versatile vehicle. Got almost 40mpg in the warm weather and 32 in the winter with studded snow tires and a thule.

[index]

This whole topic begs the question - why the hell would you get Toyota if it is expensive new and expensive used?

The same 100k mile Tucson is $8 to $10k. A 2021 with 50k miles is $20k on Carvana right now.

I drive and have owned several used Toyotas, and high mileage doesn't bother me much.  Currently have a Land Cruiser with 276k miles and a Tacoma with 216k miles that I'd drive across the country tomorrow with no qualms...

A Used one with 100k miles for $20k lost $15k of value over that first 100k miles.  At 200k it'll be worth ~$6-8k, so the second 100k miles will cost a bit less but not much.  Add in a little maintenance in the 100-200k range and it's a break even with new.  The best deal is a well cared for 200k mile Rav4, but that may be outside of your comfort zone.  Also, with high mileage Toyotas, care and maintenance vary wildly.  I've seen 200k mile vehicles look and feel almost new, and I've seen 100k mile vehicles absolutely trashed, so shop based on care and condition. 

Another note, the Rav4 and CRV are wildly popular, and hold their value ridiculously.  The last time we looked at buying one, we bought a used Acura RDX (basically a luxury CRV) for less than comparable CRV/RAV4s, so also consider the Acura RDX and Lexus NX and RX. 

I'm currently looking for a newish used Civic Hatchback, and have the same issue.   

The sweet spot for used cars is either buy a vehicle with 150k plus miles for 20% of MSRP or buy a 3-4 year old car for $15k+ cash on FB marketplace. There are many people looking to upgrade 3-4 year old cars that are insulted by the trade-in offered by a dealer and price their cars on the low end of private party KBB which is still 1-2k more than trade-in. If you want to stick with a Toyota, on FB marketplace in my area there is a 2021 XLE Rav4 with 62k miles for $23.5k and a 2020 LE Rav4 with 30k miles for 21k.

[Telecaster]

This whole topic begs the question - why the hell would you get Toyota if it is expensive new and expensive used?

The same 100k mile Tucson is $8 to $10k. A 2021 with 50k miles is $20k on Carvana right now.

Hyundai's have a poor reputation for quality.   You could make an argument that even with the repairs the  Hyundai is cheaper to own.  But I like many people place a high value on reliability.   The vehicle needs to be functional when I need it, so I'm willing to pay a premium for that perceived reliability.   

[ChpBstrd]

The correct answer is none of the above. But a new Corolla for $22-25k and spend less on fuel, insurance, maintenance, and probably depreciation too! Drive it for 250k miles and then sell it to some sucker for four grand.

And what do you lose? The option to put bulky things of certain dimensions in the trunk? How how often do you really need that, and is it worth thousands of dollars?

[MMMarbleheader]

The correct answer is none of the above. But a new Corolla for $22-25k and spend less on fuel, insurance, maintenance, and probably depreciation too! Drive it for 250k miles and then sell it to some sucker for four grand.

And what do you lose? The option to put bulky things of certain dimensions in the trunk? How how often do you really need that, and is it worth thousands of dollars?

Plus the Carolla does come in hatch back

[index]

This whole topic begs the question - why the hell would you get Toyota if it is expensive new and expensive used?

The same 100k mile Tucson is $8 to $10k. A 2021 with 50k miles is $20k on Carvana right now.

Hyundai's have a poor reputation for quality.   You could make an argument that even with the repairs the  Hyundai is cheaper to own.  But I like many people place a high value on reliability.   The vehicle needs to be functional when I need it, so I'm willing to pay a premium for that perceived reliability.

What is this reputation of poor quality you speak of? Outside of some major issues which all car companies have had a mistake or two - Toyota with their truck frames, Honda Odyssey Transmission, Nissan CVT, early 2.4l engines in Hyundais - I would say modern vehicles are pretty damn reliable.

[ChpBstrd]

The correct answer is none of the above. But a new Corolla for $22-25k and spend less on fuel, insurance, maintenance, and probably depreciation too! Drive it for 250k miles and then sell it to some sucker for four grand.

And what do you lose? The option to put bulky things of certain dimensions in the trunk? How how often do you really need that, and is it worth thousands of dollars?

Plus the Carolla does come in hatch back

Turns out it's cheaper than I thought. You can build a Corolla LE HYBRID on Toyota's website for $24,695. This is a car that does about 50mpg, is relatively cheap to insure, will last a quarter-million miles or two decades, and will only depreciate at a pace of about $2k per year.

[roomtempmayo]

The correct answer is none of the above. But a new Corolla for $22-25k and spend less on fuel, insurance, maintenance, and probably depreciation too! Drive it for 250k miles and then sell it to some sucker for four grand.

And what do you lose? The option to put bulky things of certain dimensions in the trunk? How how often do you really need that, and is it worth thousands of dollars?

Plus the Carolla does come in hatch back

Turns out it's cheaper than I thought. You can build a Corolla LE HYBRID on Toyota's website for $24,695. This is a car that does about 50mpg, is relatively cheap to insure, will last a quarter-million miles or two decades, and will only depreciate at a pace of about $2k per year.

This is the correct answer.

[Telecaster]

And what do you lose? The option to put bulky things of certain dimensions in the trunk? How how often do you really need that, and is it worth thousands of dollars?

To me it is.   We go camping about 10 days a year and need pretty much all the cargo space.   Plus, I frequently haul building and landscape materials, so I like having the interior room.  A tailgate is way better than a trunk or hatchback for those applications.   Similarly, the Rav4 comes with a roof rack that I occasionally use for hauling lumber or say a mattress.   You could buy a roof rack for the Camry, but that's an additional piece of gear.  We typically use a rooftop tent for camping, but if we didn't and had a Camry we could use a Rocket box or something and get additional space that way.   But the Rocket box isn't free and you have to install, remove, and store it and then all your stuff is up over your head which isn't nearly as nice as accessing it from ground level.     There are also limitations with the dynamic load rating if your are trying haul your all stuff on a roof rack.   

I also ski.  The skis could go on a roof rack but it is easier just to toss them in the back.   Speaking of skiing, the Rav4 has AWD which I don't need very often, but when I do need it it is a very nice feature to have.   Additionally, we have relatives who live on the other side of mountain passes and the AWD comes in handy a couple times a year in that application as well.  Now, I could do the MMM thing and simply have a extra set of wheels and snow tires that I mount for those snowy days, but that's not free and it takes some work.  I'd rather just have the AWD.  I suppose there is a trade-off with MPG, but I'm okay with that.   

In short, with some accessories and some hassle, I could make the Camry do the job I need it to, or I could simply buy a vehicle that fits my application in the first place.   And while the Rav4 costs more new, they also sell for more used.   So for me, I don't see any benefit financial or otherwise with the Camry.   

[LD_TAndK]

I'd at least test drive a Hyundai Tucson, Honda CR-V, ford Escape, kia Sportage, subaru forester, and get Out The Door (OTD) prices from each dealership. Cargo and seat room can vary surprisingly alot between all these vehicles in the same class.

You might find OTD prices vary far more than MSRP suggests. I'd also ignore the online cult of toyota reliability

[Just Joe]

Pay attention to interior noise levels. We have an ancient CRV that we still really like after 25 years of ownership but it is loud by comparison to most modern cars.

[ChpBstrd]

And what do you lose? The option to put bulky things of certain dimensions in the trunk? How how often do you really need that, and is it worth thousands of dollars?

To me it is.   We go camping about 10 days a year and need pretty much all the cargo space.   Plus, I frequently haul building and landscape materials, so I like having the interior room.  A tailgate is way better than a trunk or hatchback for those applications.   Similarly, the Rav4 comes with a roof rack that I occasionally use for hauling lumber or say a mattress.   You could buy a roof rack for the Camry, but that's an additional piece of gear.  We typically use a rooftop tent for camping, but if we didn't and had a Camry we could use a Rocket box or something and get additional space that way.   But the Rocket box isn't free and you have to install, remove, and store it and then all your stuff is up over your head which isn't nearly as nice as accessing it from ground level.     There are also limitations with the dynamic load rating if your are trying haul your all stuff on a roof rack.   

I also ski.  The skis could go on a roof rack but it is easier just to toss them in the back.   Speaking of skiing, the Rav4 has AWD which I don't need very often, but when I do need it it is a very nice feature to have.   Additionally, we have relatives who live on the other side of mountain passes and the AWD comes in handy a couple times a year in that application as well.  Now, I could do the MMM thing and simply have a extra set of wheels and snow tires that I mount for those snowy days, but that's not free and it takes some work.  I'd rather just have the AWD.  I suppose there is a trade-off with MPG, but I'm okay with that.   

In short, with some accessories and some hassle, I could make the Camry do the job I need it to, or I could simply buy a vehicle that fits my application in the first place.   And while the Rav4 costs more new, they also sell for more used.   So for me, I don't see any benefit financial or otherwise with the Camry.

I resolve these kinds of concerns with a roof rack and a 4x8 trailer pulled behind my small sedan. I just hauled 10' pipes home from the big box store using the trailer, and next week we're going camping so I'll attach the rack to the roof and my bike rack to the hitch receiver. All this equipment together, plus trailer registration, was less than $700. Thus I replaced the functionality of a truck with a small sedan and saved myself thousands.

Edmunds TCO calculator says the 5-year cost of owning a 2024 RAV4 ($42,354) is $7,700 more than owning a Corolla Hybrid ($34,584). In other words, most people are paying $1,554 extra per year for the ability to put a bigger TV box or small chair in the back of their car on the day they need to do so. Meanwhile I'm hauling hundreds of pounds of concrete or 4*8 sheets of plywood with my setup.

[index]

And what do you lose? The option to put bulky things of certain dimensions in the trunk? How how often do you really need that, and is it worth thousands of dollars?

To me it is.   We go camping about 10 days a year and need pretty much all the cargo space.   Plus, I frequently haul building and landscape materials, so I like having the interior room.  A tailgate is way better than a trunk or hatchback for those applications.   Similarly, the Rav4 comes with a roof rack that I occasionally use for hauling lumber or say a mattress.   You could buy a roof rack for the Camry, but that's an additional piece of gear.  We typically use a rooftop tent for camping, but if we didn't and had a Camry we could use a Rocket box or something and get additional space that way.   But the Rocket box isn't free and you have to install, remove, and store it and then all your stuff is up over your head which isn't nearly as nice as accessing it from ground level.     There are also limitations with the dynamic load rating if your are trying haul your all stuff on a roof rack.   

I also ski.  The skis could go on a roof rack but it is easier just to toss them in the back.   Speaking of skiing, the Rav4 has AWD which I don't need very often, but when I do need it it is a very nice feature to have.   Additionally, we have relatives who live on the other side of mountain passes and the AWD comes in handy a couple times a year in that application as well.  Now, I could do the MMM thing and simply have a extra set of wheels and snow tires that I mount for those snowy days, but that's not free and it takes some work.  I'd rather just have the AWD.  I suppose there is a trade-off with MPG, but I'm okay with that.   

In short, with some accessories and some hassle, I could make the Camry do the job I need it to, or I could simply buy a vehicle that fits my application in the first place.   And while the Rav4 costs more new, they also sell for more used.   So for me, I don't see any benefit financial or otherwise with the Camry.

I resolve these kinds of concerns with a roof rack and a 4x8 trailer pulled behind my small sedan. I just hauled 10' pipes home from the big box store using the trailer, and next week we're going camping so I'll attach the rack to the roof and my bike rack to the hitch receiver. All this equipment together, plus trailer registration, was less than $700. Thus I replaced the functionality of a truck with a small sedan and saved myself thousands.

Edmunds TCO calculator says the 5-year cost of owning a 2024 RAV4 ($42,354) is $7,700 more than owning a Corolla Hybrid ($34,584). In other words, most people are paying $1,554 extra per year for the ability to put a bigger TV box or small chair in the back of their car on the day they need to do so. Meanwhile I'm hauling hundreds of pounds of concrete or 4*8 sheets of plywood with my setup.

Or you could just buy an old truck for $8000 and not fool with trying to make either vehicle "work" and have your 5 year total cost of ownership be less than the taxes and depreciation on the new vehicle.

[jeninco]

Side note: if you're going to be driving on snowy/icy roads in the winter, you need a set of winter tires (as my DH says, "all-season" is not "ice and snow"). All-wheel drive doesn't mean all-wheel stop: that's the thing for which you most need the winter tires.

Steel rims are cheap (round about $50/rim, last I looked, if you buy them new). Get the winter tires mounted up, and then have every driver in the house practice "changing a tire" twice/year.

[MMMarbleheader]

Side note: if you're going to be driving on snowy/icy roads in the winter, you need a set of winter tires (as my DH says, "all-season" is not "ice and snow"). All-wheel drive doesn't mean all-wheel stop: that's the thing for which you most need the winter tires.

Steel rims are cheap (round about $50/rim, last I looked, if you buy them new). Get the winter tires mounted up, and then have every driver in the house practice "changing a tire" twice/year.

Though I agree, finding steel rims that fits new cars is surprisingly complicated due to the huge breaks and offsets. My 2012 and 2006 cars, no problem. Finding steel rims for a 2023 Sienna has been a lot harder unless I buy them in Quebec but everything in Canada is more expensive.

[jeninco]

Side note: if you're going to be driving on snowy/icy roads in the winter, you need a set of winter tires (as my DH says, "all-season" is not "ice and snow"). All-wheel drive doesn't mean all-wheel stop: that's the thing for which you most need the winter tires.

Steel rims are cheap (round about $50/rim, last I looked, if you buy them new). Get the winter tires mounted up, and then have every driver in the house practice "changing a tire" twice/year.

Though I agree, finding steel rims that fits new cars is surprisingly complicated due to the huge breaks and offsets. My 2012 and 2006 cars, no problem. Finding steel rims for a 2023 Sienna has been a lot harder unless I buy them in Quebec but everything in Canada is more expensive.

Interesting. I think we ordered steel rims for our 2023 Prius (sshhhh!) from Tire Source, with some input from our local tire dealer (their suggestion: they helped us figure out what would work, and suggested where we order them from)

[Just Joe]

Yeah, I haunted a forum specific to my vehicle until I found the OEM part number that helped me buy the right wheels. Someone has always done it first and shared. Might require alot of forum or search engine digging.

[Republic DC-9]

Not a RAV4, but I divested myself of a 110K Civic that needed brakes, tires, wheel bearing for a brand new GIANT boat of a new Civic.

And it is a wonderful vehicle so far...32 MPG and rising...incredibly nice.

My plan is to drive my wife’s 2013 Civic hangar queen with only 32K to put some miles on her and keep it running for the 12,000 or so miles I drive to work..my local, cheap mechanic begs me not to leave any of our cars sit....exercise them at least weekly...so I plan to rotate new and old on my daily commute until I early retire.