New Look Mr Money Mustache

[happy]

Older female here - looks like Uncle Sam gone west and scarier - if I were new to the blog I would have looked and left.

I'm a huge MMM fan and will keep reading now matter how the site looks/functions ( as long as I can read it). And I'm eternally grateful for a) the blog and its content being freely available and b) ditto for the forum.

In terms of aesthetics, as another older female, also not from US,  I have to agree with RetiredAt63. But I'm not sure you're marketing at my demographic, so that's cool.

[arebelspy]

You guys really judge a book blog by its cover theme that quickly?

You see a drawing of a guy in a top hat, and that's - for whatever reason - a turnoff for you, so you leave immediately? Without giving any of the content a chance?

That seems so odd to me.

/shrug

To each his own.

[matchewed]

This is very special because if you can see the complainypants goes up to 11. Right across the board; 11, 11, 11.

[oldtoyota]

A few thoughts…

I viewed the site as an outsider would--as much as I could--and would not know what "MMM" was. Is the assumption that new people who are visiting would already know that MMM means Mr. Money Mustache because they read that in an article? "MMM" is used in two of the main navigation links, which is why I ask.

The "Forum" link is, of course, clear. The "Random" link is not. Random what? Of course, I think *I* know this means random blog articles. Would a new person know that?

Overall, I think the design assumes that new people know there's a blog "under" the large graphic. Maybe that is true. If it is, then the "Random" link will make sense to new visitors.

Hm…I clicked on "Financial Freedom" and content that says "welcome new readers" popped up at the bottom of the page. Is the assumption that new readers only will click on "Financial Freedom"?

I visited the site several times before realizing that the content was waaay down below. It seems like the header or main graphic takes up most of the area I can view in my browser window. I am left with about 1/2 inch or so of screen room and then can read the article if I scroll down.

I hope you find this helpful and not annoying! I have managed redesigns and UX for large organizations, and this is a topic I love to discuss. Getting the navigation right can be so tricky...

[Vilgan]

The super gigantic header is annoying. The other changes seem nice, but having to scroll down when I land on this page in order to actually do anything is less than ideal (imo). But grats on the changeover.

[CommonCents]

You guys really judge a book blog by its cover theme that quickly?

You see a drawing of a guy in a top hat, and that's - for whatever reason - a turnoff for you, so you leave immediately? Without giving any of the content a chance?

That seems so odd to me.

/shrug

To each his own.

I stumbled across the blog from a search, not a recommendation from a friend (where I'd likely spend more time figuring out what they found great about it).  There's a lot of content on the web, so yeah, why would I stay to read when it really doesn't seem targeted at me or welcoming?  I'd go elsewhere, to some place that is more appropriate/directed at me.  I can get around manly (heck, I serve on a Board where I've been the only woman for 5 of 6 years), but scary that evokes the part of the brain that says "walk on the other side of the street from those dudes" is more visceral and harder to ignore. 

MMM can keep any logo he likes.  And I'm going to stay, because I know what it's about now.  But I think we're already up to 4? 5? females suggesting it's a turnoff.  Worth a rethink?  Only MMM knows.

I'm not saying this to be a complanypants (and it's disappointing some - Matchewed! -see comments on this thread as such), I'm saying to provide genuine feedback to MMM to help improve his blog because I wish it to do well.  I could have stayed quiet and not spent my time writing these posts, but then MMM wouldn't have the data he needs to make an informed decision.

[arebelspy]

MMM can keep any logo he likes.  And I'm going to stay, because I know what it's about now.  But I think we're already up to 4? 5? females suggesting it's a turnoff.  Worth a rethink?  Only MMM knows.

Sure, absolutely.  But there's tons of complaints throughout this thread that are much more nit-picky and - frankly - stupid.

People naturally don't like change. Any time any site I've ever visited has had a layout change, people bitch and moan.  So separating that from an actual complaint about being fearful of the site (see below), is tough.

scary that evokes the part of the brain that says "walk on the other side of the street from those dudes" is more visceral and harder to ignore. 

I just have trouble relating, I suppose. "Scary" is not an emotion that is evoked in the slightest when I view the header, any more than it is when I view this picture.

But to someone who's afraid of dogs, that might be terrifying.

I'm sorry that a fear emotion is evoked when you see the MMM logo, I truly am.

It's definitely something for him to consider, but, like I said, it's hard to separate the actual "this bothers me" from "I don't like change, I like complaining."

[ichangedmyname]

I wanted to reserve judgement until I saw it on my computer and I like it. A lot. :D

[RetiredAt63]

Back again to give feedback on my feedback  ;-)

I was also trying to look at it as a newcomer.   The "scarier" is in reference to the "Uncle Sam" graphic - you know, the one with a stern Uncle Sam pointing his finger at you saying "Uncle Sam wants you"?  Yes, that one gets a visceral response from me - maybe because I came of age in the Vietnam War era?  Even here in Canada it was weird watching what was going on south of us.  So, like people who have learned to be afraid of dogs, it is visceral (think of "Thinking fast and slow", this is the "fast" response not the slow one).  I know MMM is not pointing a finger, but it is that stare that got the visceral reaction.  By the way, so cute, that puppy.

Like others, I do think the top line is too big, it doesn't give room for the blog itself.  And when I compare it to the other blogs I read regularly, it is a space hog, just saying.  I have a list I check once a day, to see if anything new is up - most I can take one glance and see, the new MMM is going to need scrolling.  I will do it, but how many new readers will know it is hiding down there?

I also find the text on the main blog too big, but that may also be because I had it blown up beforehand - I prefer to be on the computer without my reading glasses*, but that means larger fonts.  I can always shrink it again, no big deal. On the other hand, I am fine with serif fonts, I prefer them to sans serif in the body of a text.  Sans serif is for headlines and spreadsheets, IMHO.

*OT - how do you know someone just turned 50? They start wearing reading glasses.  We joked about this at work, it was actually pretty accurate.

[dragoncar]

Sure, absolutely.  But there's tons of complaints throughout this thread that are much more nit-picky and - frankly - stupid.

No way!  I was actually going to complain about the font, but I forgot to.  Also, it's signed Love Mr. Money Mustache -- I'm not ready for that kind of commitment.

[Jamesqf]

People naturally don't like change. Any time any site I've ever visited has had a layout change, people bitch and moan.  So separating that from an actual complaint about being fearful of the site (see below), is tough.

That's a half-truth at best.  It'd be closer to the truth to say that most people don't like doing extra work for no reward.  Every web site, application, or whatever has a learning curve.  People who've used the interface for a while have invested effort into climbing up that curve.  Change the interface, they lose the benefit of this effort, and start back close to the bottom.  Now if there's some obvious gain to be had from the change, it's worth the effort, but if it's just change for the sake of change, or for the sake of appearing 'cool'... Well, rationally speaking, why should people like it?

Just for myself, there are a lot of things on the web where I would LOVE to see change - starting with Nevada's Obamacare website, for which changes made by random monkeys at keyboards would almost certainly be improvements - so it's not that I dislike change per se.  I just think changes should be directed at improving things.

On the other hand, I am fine with serif fonts, I prefer them to sans serif in the body of a text.  Sans serif is for headlines and spreadsheets, IMHO.

Tastes differ.  Luckily, with some if not most browsers, it's quite easy for the user to specify the font (and colors) - and IMHO a website designed without this in mind is badly designed, as are the ones that assume everyone is going to be reading them at the same resolution (usually a low 800x600 or so).

[boy_bye]

Sure, absolutely.  But there's tons of complaints throughout this thread that are much more nit-picky and - frankly - stupid.

No way!  I was actually going to complain about the font, but I forgot to.  Also, it's signed Love Mr. Money Mustache -- I'm not ready for that kind of commitment.

haha, it's always said that. i like it. :)

[arebelspy]

That's a half-truth at best.  It'd be closer to the truth to say that most people don't like doing extra work for no reward.  Every web site, application, or whatever has a learning curve.  People who've used the interface for a while have invested effort into climbing up that curve.  Change the interface, they lose the benefit of this effort, and start back close to the bottom.  Now if there's some obvious gain to be had from the change, it's worth the effort, but if it's just change for the sake of change, or for the sake of appearing 'cool'... Well, rationally speaking, why should people like it?

Okay.  I see some benefits (feature different parts of the site for new people - popular articles, the forum, etc.) beyond aesthetics (it looks awesome).  You may not. 

I like it.  You may not.  But I don't think there's that much of a learning curve, and I do think the benefits outweigh it.

[oldtoyota]

With the change, I am not sure what MMM and team are trying to solve for. Perhaps they met their goal and achieved what they were trying to fix.

PS: I do not read the blog that often. I read a recent MMM blog post--and knew it existed--only because someone here mentioned it. That is when I realized that content was showing up at the bottom. But, I see that MMM realizes the banner is too big and that Mrs. MMM is working on the CSS in the Thesis theme to change it. When that is done, it should take care of the one of the main issues to be pointed out by you, the users, here.

Thesis is an excellent theme, by the way. It is great for SEO, yet it does have a learning curve.

[Nords]

Nords: SEO (or more accurately getting lots of search engine visitors) is still really important here. At good 5,0000-10,000 people stumble on the site for the first time each day due to Googling unrelated terms, then a certain percentage of them stick around. This is an incredible source of new readers and over time is one of the key reasons there are 100k pageviews on the main blog these days, even when there are no new posts to see.

I think Dan's "advice" misses the point-- a server move and the service interruptions aren't going to put a blog this big out of business.  Google's not going to drop you off the first page just because of a week or two of glitchy availability.  There's plenty of other links and history out there on the Internet, and plenty of forum traffic, and none of it depends on fretting over redirects or other bits & pieces.  If you took the site down and went surfing for two weeks, yeah, that might take some time to recover from.  But slaving away over the last couple weeks as you've done, and coordinating all the moving parts among all those people, and getting it back up with a new design... I'm impressed. 

If you were depending on this blog to buy your groceries, or if you were being shut down by a DDOS attack, then I could see why there'd be concern.  A year from now you won't be able to pick this server move out of your Google Analytics stats.  Maybe not even a month from now.     

Kvetching about the SEO seems to be the equivalent of coming to your house on Sunday to watch the game, plopping down on your couch, picking a bottle out of the cooler, and saying "Domestic beer?!?  Y'know, I'd be happy to help you find a good international brew.  Pro-tip:  don't overchill it before serving!"  Um, actually we're just here to watch the game.

But maybe Dan's not being a complainypants... maybe it's just brilliant promotional marketing.

Overall I'm really happy with things and they are still improving. But the banner and fonts are still WAY too large!

Speaking as a confirmed presbyopian, it's nice to see a website where I don't have to keep clicking the "Zoom" button!

[the fixer]

Here's one problem I noticed: it appears that the hero banner across the top has a minimum width of ~1200 pixels. A browser window any smaller than this causes the site to scroll horizontally. However, the body of several pages I checked has a generous left and right margin that works down to about 1020 pixel widths (the footer is fine at this width as well). There appears to be enough room in the banner to let it shrink down to accommodate screens as small as the body can.

By the way one of my freelance specialties is responsive design and this is a problem I deal with regularly. If you need help MMM, let me know.

[the fixer]

I just noticed that the "email" and "RSS" links have the same RSS icon. A bug perhaps? Seems like an email icon would be more appropriate.

[George_PA]

I can't believe how big a deal people make over the new design, I guess for some this can be an emotional experience, but you will get over it over time, just be patient, breath slowly, wipe off the sweat, and relax.   You do realize that all the same content is still there just as before, hopefully?

And seriously, the top hat picture is scary?  LOL.  I doubt it is going away any time soon.  Especially, considering that at one point some CC company offered MMM $5k per month in passive income if he would just take out the word "badassity" from the title of the blog, and he told them to go shove it.

So I suppose it is part of being retired, you get to have your own style and do things your way even if it is not politically correct.  Also in a way it is a statement about mustachianism itself.  Once you guys and gals reach FI and don't need a blog to generate money, you can put up a blog just for fun with a giant middle finger as the logo, or whatever suits your style.
     

[danclarkie]

Nords: SEO (or more accurately getting lots of search engine visitors) is still really important here. At good 5,0000-10,000 people stumble on the site for the first time each day due to Googling unrelated terms, then a certain percentage of them stick around. This is an incredible source of new readers and over time is one of the key reasons there are 100k pageviews on the main blog these days, even when there are no new posts to see.

I think Dan's "advice" misses the point-- a server move and the service interruptions aren't going to put a blog this big out of business. 

If you go back and read everything I have ever said on this topic, you will find no instance whatsoever of me making any such suggestion.

Google's not going to drop you off the first page just because of a week or two of glitchy availability.  There's plenty of other links and history out there on the Internet, and plenty of forum traffic, and none of it depends on fretting over redirects or other bits & pieces.  If you took the site down and went surfing for two weeks, yeah, that might take some time to recover from.  But slaving away over the last couple weeks as you've done, and coordinating all the moving parts among all those people, and getting it back up with a new design... I'm impressed. 

Clearly, you are far better versed in the nuances of Search Engine Optimization than I am.
I have been doing this for 14 years, across 3 countries, 2 continents.
I was head of international SEO for Groupon before they went public and listed as a $15bn company.
I was the lead SEO consultant for HSBC Middle East North Africa and oversaw their site migrations and transitions.

Had I known I found myself in the company of someone so much better versed in the industry than me, I would have certainly held my tongue on the issue.

FYI, this:

Google's not going to drop you off the first page just because of a week or two of glitchy availability....
&
none of it depends on fretting over redirects or other bits & pieces

Could not be more wrong.
I beg you please not to give out such SEO advice to others.

If you were depending on this blog to buy your groceries, or if you were being shut down by a DDOS attack, then I could see why there'd be concern.  A year from now you won't be able to pick this server move out of your Google Analytics stats.  Maybe not even a month from now.     

Well, I'm going to have to call bullshit on this.
Traffic will have been impacted because of the move.
This will show in Analytics.
Regardless of which point in time you choose to look back at this.

Had the issued not been brought to light and addressed, the fall in traffic would have been substanitally worse and prolonged.

Kvetching about the SEO seems to be the equivalent of coming to your house on Sunday to watch the game, plopping down on your couch, picking a bottle out of the cooler, and saying "Domestic beer?!?  Y'know, I'd be happy to help you find a good international brew.  Pro-tip:  don't overchill it before serving!"  Um, actually we're just here to watch the game.

You may chose to dismiss the importance of SEO (which is odd as you speak as an expert on the subject above) but even MMM himself came to the blog and pointed out its importance.

In your analogy, it would be more like:

I come over to your house on Sunday to watch the game and see you are paying through the nose for it on a top level cable package.
I ask you why and you say you do it so you can pay $900 a month and reap the airline miles, since the monthly minimum payments are only $20 a month, you are making out like a bandit and stacking the airmiles.

And then, I tell you that this is a bad idea and explain the reasons why.
I offer an alternative way to watch the game through a free internet stream that is of the same quality as your cable subscription and explain how to pay off your credit card and stop hemorrhaging money each month.

Still, the prerogative to tell me: "Um, actually we're just here to watch the game." would still be all yours.

But maybe Dan's not being a complainypants... maybe it's just brilliant promotional marketing.

What, pray tell, am I promoting?
My own willingness to give away free SEO advice?

I think a complainypants would be if I had said "This is broken and it sucks"

Rather than what I did say: "This is broken, I am an expert in this field*, here's what you need to do to fix it"
*See my resume link for citation of this

Honestly, In my opinion, a complainypants would be someone making a miserable statement with no constructive feedback or actionable point.
It may sound like:

"uh your advice sucks and we don't need it anyway"

Regards,

Dan

[CommonCents]

You know this who thread brings to mind a question for me: At what point is someone providing valid feedback to help another improve/recognize issues and at what point does it cross the lines to complainypants?

I see a lot of charges either way (heck, I claimed to provided feedback myself) in this thread.  Folks on this blog are expected to have a bit of a thicker skin to take their facepunches.  Well, I'm delivering one to those who are are unable to distinguish the above situations: Reconsider whether the person is just a complanypants - or if you need to grow a thicker skin because you just don't like hearing any criticism at all.  Criticism in and of itself is not complanypants.  Like the boy who cried wolf, if you toss the phrase around too frequently it can lose it's impact.

[arebelspy]

You know this who thread brings to mind a question for me: At what point is someone providing valid feedback to help another improve/recognize issues and at what point does it cross the lines to complainypants?

I see a lot of charges either way (heck, I claimed to provided feedback myself) in this thread.  Folks on this blog are expected to have a bit of a thicker skin to take their facepunches.  Well, I'm delivering one to those who are are unable to distinguish the above situations: Reconsider whether the person is just a complanypants - or if you need to grow a thicker skin because you just don't like hearing any criticism at all.  Criticism in and of itself is not complanypants.  Like the boy who cried wolf, if you toss the phrase around too frequently it can lose it's impact.

Sure, absolutely.  And, as I said in my reply to you:

So separating [complainypants] from an actual complaint ... is tough.

Feedback is generally constructive.  Dan gave feedback.

Complaining is normally just whining.  "I hate it, wah."

And sometimes they get mixed together in one post.

I'd probably try and note that you're trying to offer feedback to improve, rather than just complaining (i.e. actually make a statement to that effect).

[CommonCents]

My comments weren't directed at anyone specifically.  It's just something this thread has crystallized for me, although I've seen the knee jerk reaction appearing in other threads as well. 

[warfreak2]

So click "classic blog" option at the top.  You get exactly what you want, and it should remember your preference.

Just to add some feedback, I keep clicking "classic blog" and it never remembers my preference.

[arebelspy]

So click "classic blog" option at the top.  You get exactly what you want, and it should remember your preference.

Just to add some feedback, I keep clicking "classic blog" and it never remembers my preference.

Good to know.  That would be some constructive criticism to send to Kevin / Weberz - make sure cookie is placed that remembers view preference.   :)

[BlueHouse]

If they could make a version that resembled an excel spreadsheet, I would be elated.

[mikefixac]

I haven't read all the comments, but I went to the website, I cliqued "Start Here" and got to post "Getting Rich: Zero to Hero...."

It's difficult for me to read with that type of color background. In fact, gave up after first paragraph.

I would think you would want to make it as easy on the eyes as possible to read. I remember when websites first became popular and it was popular to create white lettering on black background. Terrible idea.

[dragoncar]

If they could make a version that resembled an excel spreadsheet, I would be elated.

Try adding the RSS feed to Outlook

http://office.microsoft.com/en-001/outlook-help/subscribe-to-an-rss-feed-HA010355679.aspx

[NinetyFour]

You know this who thread brings to mind a question for me: At what point is someone providing valid feedback to help another improve/recognize issues and at what point does it cross the lines to complainypants?

I see a lot of charges either way (heck, I claimed to provided feedback myself) in this thread.  Folks on this blog are expected to have a bit of a thicker skin to take their facepunches.  Well, I'm delivering one to those who are are unable to distinguish the above situations: Reconsider whether the person is just a complanypants - or if you need to grow a thicker skin because you just don't like hearing any criticism at all.  Criticism in and of itself is not complanypants.  Like the boy who cried wolf, if you toss the phrase around too frequently it can lose it's impact.

+1.

[oldtoyota]

You know this who thread brings to mind a question for me: At what point is someone providing valid feedback to help another improve/recognize issues and at what point does it cross the lines to complainypants?

I see a lot of charges either way (heck, I claimed to provided feedback myself) in this thread.  Folks on this blog are expected to have a bit of a thicker skin to take their facepunches.  Well, I'm delivering one to those who are are unable to distinguish the above situations: Reconsider whether the person is just a complanypants - or if you need to grow a thicker skin because you just don't like hearing any criticism at all.  Criticism in and of itself is not complanypants.  Like the boy who cried wolf, if you toss the phrase around too frequently it can lose it's impact.

+1.

+2

[RetiredAt63]

Feedback - someone earlier said that the site would remember if we click on "Classic".  I just checked and for my computer it does not remember.  So much else has been adjusted, I am sure this will be too.

The advantage of classic, for me, is that we can see the title of the most recent blog without scrolling down, although I hope the top part will shrink at some point so more shows.

I am getting used to the top-hatted face, although I still prefer the coin.  Purely personal - the coin, for me, has more presence/gravitas.  YMMV.

[happy]

You guys really judge a book blog by its cover theme that quickly?

You see a drawing of a guy in a top hat, and that's - for whatever reason - a turnoff for you, so you leave immediately? Without giving any of the content a chance?

That seems so odd to me.

/shrug

To each his own.

The internet has plenty of unpleasant and disturbing content, to which I'd rather not be exposed. Its frequently linked to the visual presentation of the site.  So I   probably do click off fairly quickly if I don't like the look of a site that I've found on a random search. I would stay and read in spite of the visual if I had a strong reason to believe there was content of interest to me, say a link or reference from another site. If I find good content fairly quickly I will stay reading even if the visual creeps me out a bit. There's another blog I read regularly that would  come under that description.

[MayDay]

I will chime in and comment that I don't like how big the header is, and that the links surrounding the top hat guy are in a circle not an line (engineer!).  It is annoying to have to scroll down to get to the actual content.  Maybe this isn't a problem on other devices, but it is a pain on an iPad.

[Nords]

Clearly, you are far better versed in the nuances of Search Engine Optimization than I am.

Apparently I'm totally out of my league here.

You have a nice life now.