Author Topic: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates  (Read 2333 times)

bmjohnson35

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New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« on: March 19, 2024, 03:25:26 AM »

https://newatlas.com/automotive/j-d-power-u-s-vds-iqs-auto-industry-quality-dropping/


If cost savings isn't enough incentive to buy a used car over new, increased reliability sweetens the pot.

LD_TAndK

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2024, 04:46:51 AM »
I wouldn't put too much weight on this. Saying new cars are "failing" is bombastic. The categories JD Power looked at:

Climate
Driving Assistance
Driving Experience
Exterior
Features/Controls/Displays (FCD)
Infotainment
Interior
Powertrain
Seats

So I'd bet most of these problems are annoying but not leaving you stranded on the side of the road.

Additionally the chart in the article shows the rate of problems has doubled from 1 in 100 to 2 in 100. So still a small percentage of all vehicles overall.

Ron Scott

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2024, 05:17:25 AM »
Whenever you install a computer chip in something that didn’t have one before, you get additional features you do not need, added expense forever, and an overall decrease in quality.

Askel

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2024, 05:40:14 AM »
Clickbaity title aside, I don't think this is necessarily a great argument for used. 

Lots of data right now showing the used market is having issues because people either don't want to (new cars too expensive, interest rates high) or can't (totally underwater) sell their existing cars.   

Anecdotally, a buddy who sells used cars has had an unprecedented string of cars he bought at auction with major issues. So much so the auction house has agreed to buy some back which is pretty wild for auctions that are supposedly as is, where is.   


bmjohnson35

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2024, 09:00:17 AM »

It does appear the reliability issues are peripheral and not necessarily major drivetrain failures. Unfortunately, the industry believes consumers want more and more high tech features and elaborate safety and/or driver assist systems. Servicing and repairing these new high tech machines is a nightmare for automotive repair shops.  The majority of consumers probably do want the latest tech, but I wonder what percentage of consumers would prefer a simpler vehicle for a lower cost and potentially more reliable?

Aside from front air bags, anti-lock brakes and the backup camera, I don't care about a lot of these systems. I certainly don't want to go back to the days of carburetors, point ignition and drum brakes, but I don't see the need for a lot of the complexity we have today. 

I do most of the maintenance and repairs on our vehicles, so I may have a different mindset than most. 
 

GilesMM

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2024, 09:28:40 AM »
If a new car owner has to deal with broken stuff and be constantly at a dealer for repairs they will be miserable whether it invokes the motor of the radio. I have no interest in driving a car that requires frequent repairs and take no joy in the fact it doesn’t require a tow to the dealer.

iris lily

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2024, 09:33:25 AM »
Whenever you install a computer chip in something that didn’t have one before, you get additional features you do not need, added expense forever, and an overall decrease in quality.

I would like this printed wisdom on a pillow for my home.

This is exactly what my old dad said, you add more crap to a car, there’s more crap to go wrong with it.

On another forum we’re discussing features of new cars and I will say that the ONLY feature to come out since the mid 90s that I really like is the back up camera. That is a game changer for me. Otherwise, the 1995 Ford Taurus I bought used, was the most luxurious car I had ever had up to that point and the most luxurious car I ever need. It had automatic windows. It had electronic seat adjustment. It had plush velvetine--like seat upholstery
« Last Edit: March 19, 2024, 09:50:18 AM by iris lily »

innkeeper77

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2024, 09:34:43 AM »

It does appear the reliability issues are peripheral and not necessarily major drivetrain failures. Unfortunately, the industry believes consumers want more and more high tech features and elaborate safety and/or driver assist systems. Servicing and repairing these new high tech machines is a nightmare for automotive repair shops.  The majority of consumers probably do want the latest tech, but I wonder what percentage of consumers would prefer a simpler vehicle for a lower cost and potentially more reliable?

Aside from front air bags, anti-lock brakes and the backup camera, I don't care about a lot of these systems. I certainly don't want to go back to the days of carburetors, point ignition and drum brakes, but I don't see the need for a lot of the complexity we have today. 

I do most of the maintenance and repairs on our vehicles, so I may have a different mindset than most.

Occasionally, added complexity can INCREASE reliability. One example: Automakers have moved to direct fuel injection instead of port injection. This improves efficiency as well as power, and makes a lot of sense. However, it significantly decreases reliability as the intake valve is no longer being cleaned by the fuel, and will eventually stop sealing. This is why most nissans have a looming $2000 repair bill to do a valve job, with no way to avoid it. Toyota runs an additional fuel rail, additional injectors, etc- this adds more parts, more complexity, more cost- but it only adds about $1000 to the vehicle cost, and is likely to function for the lifetime of the vehicle. I personally find the efficiency and power gains from direct injection to be worth it, but also chose the more complicated engine because it will be more reliable in MOST cases, even if there are additional failure points for a manufacturing defect to show up in.

Askel

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2024, 09:42:11 AM »


Occasionally, added complexity can INCREASE reliability. One example: Automakers have moved to direct fuel injection instead of port injection. This improves efficiency as well as power, and makes a lot of sense. However, it significantly decreases reliability as the intake valve is no longer being cleaned by the fuel, and will eventually stop sealing. This is why most nissans have a looming $2000 repair bill to do a valve job, with no way to avoid it. Toyota runs an additional fuel rail, additional injectors, etc- this adds more parts, more complexity, more cost- but it only adds about $1000 to the vehicle cost, and is likely to function for the lifetime of the vehicle. I personally find the efficiency and power gains from direct injection to be worth it, but also chose the more complicated engine because it will be more reliable in MOST cases, even if there are additional failure points for a manufacturing defect to show up in.

RCR fan outed. :D   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT70JH1APug

innkeeper77

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2024, 09:45:18 AM »


Occasionally, added complexity can INCREASE reliability. One example: Automakers have moved to direct fuel injection instead of port injection. This improves efficiency as well as power, and makes a lot of sense. However, it significantly decreases reliability as the intake valve is no longer being cleaned by the fuel, and will eventually stop sealing. This is why most nissans have a looming $2000 repair bill to do a valve job, with no way to avoid it. Toyota runs an additional fuel rail, additional injectors, etc- this adds more parts, more complexity, more cost- but it only adds about $1000 to the vehicle cost, and is likely to function for the lifetime of the vehicle. I personally find the efficiency and power gains from direct injection to be worth it, but also chose the more complicated engine because it will be more reliable in MOST cases, even if there are additional failure points for a manufacturing defect to show up in.

RCR fan outed. :D   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT70JH1APug

You got me! Admittedly that is exactly where I got the "$1000 to the price" number. However, this is one of the (many) reasons we avoided buying a used nissan for cheap in the past when we needed a basic transportation vehicle

Askel

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2024, 09:57:33 AM »


You got me! Admittedly that is exactly where I got the "$1000 to the price" number. However, this is one of the (many) reasons we avoided buying a used nissan for cheap in the past when we needed a basic transportation vehicle

It was a pretty mustachian episode, complete with a Caleb Hammer reference.

Although when it comes to cars, I have a somewhat Roman-esque view in that most modern cars can all be rated on a scale of great to mind bogglingly awesome.   I guess riding to work on a bicycle in sub zero temps adjusts my perspective some. Or I just have enough friends that are into weird, esoteric cars.   

GuitarStv

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2024, 10:00:54 AM »
It has all been downhill since we stopped using roll up windows.

Fru-Gal

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2024, 10:42:04 AM »
Quote
On another forum we’re discussing features of new cars and I will say that the ONLY feature to come out since the mid 90s that I really like is the back up camera.

My car is a 1998. I think cars peaked right around then.

However now that she’s pushing 300k miles (my second to reach/exceed that number) the oil consumption is excessive.

I think I’m gonna try to be more like @spartana and rent when I need a reliable car. Also I need to find a new mechanic, mine never wants to fix anything. I have a EFI fuse that blew twice going through puddles and he can’t find (also didn’t look very hard) where there may be a short.

Fru-Gal

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2024, 10:48:37 AM »
Last night ironically I was looking at classic cars for sale. My two temptations are the mid-60s two-tone Nash Metropolitan (1500 cc engine), or the same vintage Ford Ranchero (but most have been turned into V8s, not sure what the original engine was in that).

I also periodically fantasize about electrifying my car. It’s a manual, which I believe makes it simpler.

roomtempmayo

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2024, 11:03:27 AM »
Quote
On another forum we’re discussing features of new cars and I will say that the ONLY feature to come out since the mid 90s that I really like is the back up camera.

My car is a 1998. I think cars peaked right around then.


Yeah, a typical car from 1998 is much better than one from 1988, and lightyears better than one from 1978.  In the span of 15 or 20 years, we went from cars that got 10-15 mpg to 25-35 mpg, and roughly doubled their expected lifespan.  The pace of improvement really fell off after about 2000, to the point where it's at least arguable whether a 2024 ICE car is better than its 2014 equivalent model, and most of the discussion would be about bells and whistles rather than efficiency or longevity.

GilesMM

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2024, 11:10:21 AM »
Quote
On another forum we’re discussing features of new cars and I will say that the ONLY feature to come out since the mid 90s that I really like is the back up camera.

My car is a 1998. I think cars peaked right around then.


Yeah, a typical car from 1998 is much better than one from 1988, and lightyears better than one from 1978.  In the span of 15 or 20 years, we went from cars that got 10-15 mpg to 25-35 mpg, and roughly doubled their expected lifespan.  The pace of improvement really fell off after about 2000, to the point where it's at least arguable whether a 2024 ICE car is better than its 2014 equivalent model, and most of the discussion would be about bells and whistles rather than efficiency or longevity.


The tightening grip of CAFE standards is pushing most automakers to move from 8 and 6 cylinder engines into hideous, raspy turbo- or supercharged 4 cylinder motors that deliver similar horsepower but lack refinement.  They suck. 

spartana

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2024, 03:02:35 PM »
Quote
On another forum we’re discussing features of new cars and I will say that the ONLY feature to come out since the mid 90s that I really like is the back up camera.

My car is a 1998. I think cars peaked right around then.

However now that she’s pushing 300k miles (my second to reach/exceed that number) the oil consumption is excessive.

I think I’m gonna try to be more like @spartana and rent when I need a reliable car. Also I need to find a new mechanic, mine never wants to fix anything. I have a EFI fuse that blew twice going through puddles and he can’t find (also didn’t look very hard) where there may be a short.
Well I did own a car for about 6 months but it didn't work out so sold it and have been back to car-free life for the past 3 months - and haven't driven since then. But I have been looking at various vehicles but it all seems... complicated and expensive. Not just the car but insurance, registration, repairs and maintenance. So far renting occasionally for month-long road trips seems to work well since I'm so flexible and can scour around for deals so for now biking is winning ;-). Im into my 5th year of car-free/occasional rentals life and it's hard to give up! But if I was commuting or needed a car often I'd seriously struggle with the used verses new issue.

ETA: 300k miles is extremely impressive!! But yeah I would be worried about breakdowns if I was driving far. My sister has a 2000 Nissan with over 250k miles that runs great but she'd likely rent if doing a long trip.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2024, 03:10:06 PM by spartana »

Jakestersquat

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2024, 03:41:11 PM »
It has all been downhill since we stopped using roll up windows.


Completely agree.

pdxvandal

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2024, 07:58:22 PM »
What service do you use/prefer to rent a car for a month?

Quote
On another forum we’re discussing features of new cars and I will say that the ONLY feature to come out since the mid 90s that I really like is the back up camera.

My car is a 1998. I think cars peaked right around then.

However now that she’s pushing 300k miles (my second to reach/exceed that number) the oil consumption is excessive.

I think I’m gonna try to be more like @spartana and rent when I need a reliable car. Also I need to find a new mechanic, mine never wants to fix anything. I have a EFI fuse that blew twice going through puddles and he can’t find (also didn’t look very hard) where there may be a short.
Well I did own a car for about 6 months but it didn't work out so sold it and have been back to car-free life for the past 3 months - and haven't driven since then. But I have been looking at various vehicles but it all seems... complicated and expensive. Not just the car but insurance, registration, repairs and maintenance. So far renting occasionally for month-long road trips seems to work well since I'm so flexible and can scour around for deals so for now biking is winning ;-). Im into my 5th year of car-free/occasional rentals life and it's hard to give up! But if I was commuting or needed a car often I'd seriously struggle with the used verses new issue.

ETA: 300k miles is extremely impressive!! But yeah I would be worried about breakdowns if I was driving far. My sister has a 2000 Nissan with over 250k miles that runs great but she'd likely rent if doing a long trip.

spartana

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2024, 08:05:40 PM »
I use Hertz. Look for deals (usually with my AAA membership), use a Chase Freedom CC that covers 31 days to cover the cost of the car in accident or theft so decline the expensive damage waiver offered by rental company, have a non-car owners liability insurance policy via State Farm for $250/year. Last car I rented (Kona) for a month was from Dec 02 to Jan 02 and it was approx $400 for 31 days all inclusive (taxes and fees) with unlimited miles. Im a Hertz rewards member too.so get free upgrades and points towards free rentals.

Laura33

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2024, 09:05:27 AM »
It has all been downhill since we stopped using roll up windows stick shifts.

FTFY.

Hard to put on makeup and eat a burrito when you need to downshift for the next red light.

iris lily

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2024, 09:07:45 AM »
Last night ironically I was looking at classic cars for sale. My two temptations are the mid-60s two-tone Nash Metropolitan (1500 cc engine), or the same vintage Ford Ranchero (but most have been turned into V8s, not sure what the original engine was in that).

I also periodically fantasize about electrifying my car. It’s a manual, which I believe makes it simpler.

Are you my new best friend? The two-tone Nash Metropolitan is in my top five cars to own

When we win the lottery, the first thing I will do is hire a cook. The second thing I will do is go out and find a garage with multi stalls, or have one built very quickly, so that DH and I can collect cars. We like cars.

Since he and I do not share taste in carsI will have to have my own garage with multi stalls, and he will have to go find his own garage.

I have priced the Nash Metropolitans, and they are not all that expensive.

iris lily

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2024, 09:09:38 AM »
Quote
On another forum we’re discussing features of new cars and I will say that the ONLY feature to come out since the mid 90s that I really like is the back up camera.

My car is a 1998. I think cars peaked right around then.

However now that she’s pushing 300k miles (my second to reach/exceed that number) the oil consumption is excessive.

I think I’m gonna try to be more like @spartana and rent when I need a reliable car. Also I need to find a new mechanic, mine never wants to fix anything. I have a EFI fuse that blew twice going through puddles and he can’t find (also didn’t look very hard) where there may be a short.

Our friends drive very old Volvos, and since they mostly drive within the city, it’s not all that risky.. When they take a long car trip across the country they rent.

 this seems like a good process.

Laura33

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2024, 09:14:42 AM »
I think this is a version of hedonic adaptation.  Back In My DayTM, cars were pretty basic and broke down pretty frequently; sitting by the side of the road waiting for a tow truck was not particularly uncommon, and one of the first gifts my parents got me was an AAA membership.

My first car didn't even have airbags -- hell, the backseat still had lap belts.  Now my husband's car will literally stop him from getting into an accident on its own if he's not paying sufficient attention.  Sure, it's annoying when the little window toggle falls off and I have to stick it back on; OTOH, I can now, in fact, open and close my window with my little finger instead of oh-the-hardship of having to manually roll the window up and down. 

It's all a matter of perspective.  Sure, added complexity can very well mean more things to break, and it's annoying when they do.  But I'm still happy that I don't have to reach over to the passenger side and crank down the window or pull up the door lock, or stop the car to put the top up manually if it starts to rain.  It's all gravy.

Now get off my lawn. 

neo von retorch

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2024, 09:37:14 AM »
I think this is a version of hedonic adaptation.  Back In My DayTM, cars were pretty basic and broke down pretty frequently; sitting by the side of the road waiting for a tow truck was not particularly uncommon, and one of the first gifts my parents got me was an AAA membership.

Vaguely off topic but this reminded me... last night I saw this advertisement and thought it was amusing!

spartana

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2024, 10:27:06 AM »
I think this is a version of hedonic adaptation.  Back In My DayTM, cars were pretty basic and broke down pretty frequently; sitting by the side of the road waiting for a tow truck was not particularly uncommon, and one of the first gifts my parents got me was an AAA membership.

Vaguely off topic but this reminded me... last night I saw this advertisement and thought it was amusing!
Ha. I still have an AAA membership even though I don't have a car. Just use it for car rental and other deals. But for last car I had for many years was a 2001 Ford Ranger (bought used in Jan 2007 owned until Dec 2018 - manual trans and windows - the HORROR!!) and I swear AAA was pretty invaluable. Although waiting by the side of the road was much easier once cell phones were invented! Do they even have those emergency roadside call boxes any more? Do they even have phone booths? Now my biggest concern is having my bike stolen. Or getting robbed on my bike while transporting all the money I saved by not owning a car to the bank ;-). Doing that today with $14k. Gotta ride fast!!

Luke Warm

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2024, 11:30:01 AM »
Can you buy a car now that doesn't have a screen instead of nobs and sliders?

neo von retorch

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2024, 11:39:39 AM »
Can you buy a car now that doesn't have a screen instead of nobs and sliders?

Not sure about the "doesn't have a screen" part. They all seem to have at least one screen. But some do a decent job of having actual buttons to press, and knobs to turn. (Sliders... hmm... likely obsolete!)

roomtempmayo

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2024, 11:56:56 AM »
Can you buy a car now that doesn't have a screen instead of nobs and sliders?



Our friends drive very old Volvos


An old Volvo is a solution to lots of modern car afflictions, screens among them.

It will also be in perpetual need of some repair, but it's unlikely to really stop working.

They just sort of soldier on endlessly while muttering about the rock in their shoe.

JungYo

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2024, 01:34:13 PM »
I visited a friend recently who has a new Acura Integra Type S and a Kia EV6. Since I had never experienced either, we did some joy-riding: both cars, in their own ways, are utterly fantastic! But the screens, the multitudinous buttons, the chirps and dings and visual alarms, the subscriptions - I thought this all was supposed to increase safety / decrease distracted driving? Per the article, I can see why "cars are failing at unprecedented rates:" not mechanically failing to the point of breakdown, but owners failing to corral and understand all the nannies to the point of nervous breakdown.

Driving back home in my 1996 short wheelbase, RHD turbodiesel 4x4 was so much more pleasant: I paid attention to the road and surroundings, on a 6-lane highway w/ no other traffic I could look around, a local college radio station was playing some great tunes over FM. No distractions, although I did have to turn the temp dial once to a lower temp (w/o having to divert my attention from, you know, actual driving).

iris lily

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2024, 02:45:33 PM »
I visited a friend recently who has a new Acura Integra Type S and a Kia EV6. Since I had never experienced either, we did some joy-riding: both cars, in their own ways, are utterly fantastic! But the screens, the multitudinous buttons, the chirps and dings and visual alarms, the subscriptions - I thought this all was supposed to increase safety / decrease distracted driving? Per the article, I can see why "cars are failing at unprecedented rates:" not mechanically failing to the point of breakdown, but owners failing to corral and understand all the nannies to the point of nervous breakdown.

Driving back home in my 1996 short wheelbase, RHD turbodiesel 4x4 was so much more pleasant: I paid attention to the road and surroundings, on a 6-lane highway w/ no other traffic I could look around, a local college radio station was playing some great tunes over FM. No distractions, although I did have to turn the temp dial once to a lower temp (w/o having to divert my attention from, you know, actual driving).

Exactly! The chirps and dings are nearly useless to me.Try it when you have two new-to-me cars of different makes. The noise is chaotic and inscrutable.

A REAL luxury car will talk to me in a well modulated British accent saying things like “Iris, please buckle your seatbelt.”   “ Iris, you are crossing the center line rather often. Are you tired, dear?” 

Oh, and it will repeat its words when I ask it to. This is another beef I have, this one with Mapquest…if I miss the audio directive first tome I want to be able to issue command “repeat” and it says the words again.

rothwem

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2024, 03:08:08 PM »

It does appear the reliability issues are peripheral and not necessarily major drivetrain failures. Unfortunately, the industry believes consumers want more and more high tech features and elaborate safety and/or driver assist systems. Servicing and repairing these new high tech machines is a nightmare for automotive repair shops.  The majority of consumers probably do want the latest tech, but I wonder what percentage of consumers would prefer a simpler vehicle for a lower cost and potentially more reliable?

Aside from front air bags, anti-lock brakes and the backup camera, I don't care about a lot of these systems. I certainly don't want to go back to the days of carburetors, point ignition and drum brakes, but I don't see the need for a lot of the complexity we have today. 

I do most of the maintenance and repairs on our vehicles, so I may have a different mindset than most.

I'm not sure how many engineers we have on this board, but there's an engineering tool called FMEA where you basically rank the Failure Modes and their Effects when you're building something and you do testing to make sure that the items with the higher ranks are done correctly and you try to save as much money as you can on the ones that aren't that highly ranked.  So when something has a severity of 10 that could potentially kill you (think seatbelts/steering column/brakes), its going to have lots of work done to make sure its right, and things that have a lower severity like the stereo and/or infotainment system are going to have as much cost taken out of them as possible and they're probably not going to work right. 

Modern cars are crazy reliable for basic drivetrain stuff, they kick the ass of older cars.  They are also more likely to have annoying shit break that will drive you bananas.  My mom's Dodge Journey had the radio head unit replaced 4 times, the HVAC "blend door actuator" replaced twice (and it failed another time under my brother's ownership though he never replaced it) but the engine/transmission went over 200k with way too little maintenance.  Eventually, the head gasket leaking got to be too much for my brother and he ditched it, but part of me wanted to see how long he could make it last with just topping up the coolant. 

Driving back home in my 1996 short wheelbase, RHD turbodiesel 4x4 was so much more pleasant: I paid attention to the road and surroundings, on a 6-lane highway w/ no other traffic I could look around, a local college radio station was playing some great tunes over FM. No distractions, although I did have to turn the temp dial once to a lower temp (w/o having to divert my attention from, you know, actual driving).

Is 88.1 WKNC still a thing in Raleigh?  They used to a club/EDM/DJ feature on Friday nights back in ~2006, it was awesome for parties. 

Fru-Gal

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2024, 06:59:50 PM »
Quote
The two-tone Nash Metropolitan is in my top five cars to own

So @iris lily, yesterday I walked by one (that’s been parked somewhat near me for years) and the owner was outside. He told me a tale that made me not such a fan!

OK, first off I say, is that good on gas? He says sort of, but the parts are hard to find, as it’s made in England. Ack, I have a rule never to own Italian or English cars.

But sadly, his car (which was clearly not in good shape anyway) had rust on the frame and was not running. He said when he inherited it a few years ago (from an aunt who used to drive it in parades) he took it to a detailing shop. While he left it there, they had trouble turning it on, not realizing it had a choke.

They tried to get the engine to catch until the battery failed. Then they tried to jump start it, but the car has reversed polarity so they fried the electrical system.

He says I can have it for $2500. 😆

jrhampt

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2024, 06:08:48 AM »
Quote
The two-tone Nash Metropolitan is in my top five cars to own

So @iris lily, yesterday I walked by one (that’s been parked somewhat near me for years) and the owner was outside. He told me a tale that made me not such a fan!

OK, first off I say, is that good on gas? He says sort of, but the parts are hard to find, as it’s made in England. Ack, I have a rule never to own Italian or English cars.

But sadly, his car (which was clearly not in good shape anyway) had rust on the frame and was not running. He said when he inherited it a few years ago (from an aunt who used to drive it in parades) he took it to a detailing shop. While he left it there, they had trouble turning it on, not realizing it had a choke.

They tried to get the engine to catch until the battery failed. Then they tried to jump start it, but the car has reversed polarity so they fried the electrical system.

He says I can have it for $2500. 😆

So...if you take a car in to get detailed and they break your car, do you have any recourse? Do they owe you money for breaking it? Or do they just shrug and say oh well, sorry.

JungYo

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2024, 06:52:04 AM »
Is 88.1 WKNC still a thing in Raleigh?  They used to a club/EDM/DJ feature on Friday nights back in ~2006, it was awesome for parties.

Absolutely still a thing! I don't keep up with their schedule, but for driving around town, they're always playing something interesting.

ChickenStash

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2024, 08:19:07 AM »
Quote
The two-tone Nash Metropolitan is in my top five cars to own

So @iris lily, yesterday I walked by one (that’s been parked somewhat near me for years) and the owner was outside. He told me a tale that made me not such a fan!

OK, first off I say, is that good on gas? He says sort of, but the parts are hard to find, as it’s made in England. Ack, I have a rule never to own Italian or English cars.

But sadly, his car (which was clearly not in good shape anyway) had rust on the frame and was not running. He said when he inherited it a few years ago (from an aunt who used to drive it in parades) he took it to a detailing shop. While he left it there, they had trouble turning it on, not realizing it had a choke.

They tried to get the engine to catch until the battery failed. Then they tried to jump start it, but the car has reversed polarity so they fried the electrical system.

He says I can have it for $2500. 😆

So...if you take a car in to get detailed and they break your car, do you have any recourse? Do they owe you money for breaking it? Or do they just shrug and say oh well, sorry.

This comes up a lot in auto enthusiast circles. The shop is responsible for the damage they caused and the decent ones will "make it right" but the less-reputable shops probably have to be sued in small claims court (assuming the damage is low enough cost) for a chance to collect. It is unlikely any insurance the shop might have would cover damage they caused.

desertadapted

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2024, 08:55:05 AM »
I use Hertz. Look for deals (usually with my AAA membership), use a Chase Freedom CC that covers 31 days to cover the cost of the car in accident or theft so decline the expensive damage waiver offered by rental company, have a non-car owners liability insurance policy via State Farm for $250/year. Last car I rented (Kona) for a month was from Dec 02 to Jan 02 and it was approx $400 for 31 days all inclusive (taxes and fees) with unlimited miles. Im a Hertz rewards member too.so get free upgrades and points towards free rentals.
I feel like the brilliance packed into this tiny paragraph should be its own thread.  I took notes and am now researching how to integrate this into my life.  One of the best posts I've read on the forum in a while.

innkeeper77

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2024, 09:05:45 AM »
It has all been downhill since we stopped using roll up windows stick shifts.

FTFY.

Hard to put on makeup and eat a burrito when you need to downshift for the next red light.

The manuals are nice, even if they make climbing rocks significantly harder.. I have an entirely UNmustachian truck. (I like to do volunteer recovery and SAR "lite" stuff) - but it's a 2019 with a manual transmission and a physical key! Toyota has made some very simple vehicles even recently. It also takes absolutely tons of maintenance but that might have something with me driving it super far off road, winching and towing people out constantly.... (it's also not too bad on maintenance, I just use the severe maintenance schedules and do it myself- but there is a list of things I should address before too long) - it's also helpful for hauling building materials. My goal is to add electric to my cargo bike soon to replace some more in between trips because the truck is an absolute waste of money.

My wife's car is an automatic but it's also a PHEV so I can't complain too much. Unfortunately with kids and work public transit is NOT an option, driving saves about two hours a day which really adds up.

spartana

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2024, 10:27:30 AM »
I use Hertz. Look for deals (usually with my AAA membership), use a Chase Freedom CC that covers 31 days to cover the cost of the car in accident or theft so decline the expensive damage waiver offered by rental company, have a non-car owners liability insurance policy via State Farm for $250/year. Last car I rented (Kona) for a month was from Dec 02 to Jan 02 and it was approx $400 for 31 days all inclusive (taxes and fees) with unlimited miles. Im a Hertz rewards member too.so get free upgrades and points towards free rentals.
I feel like the brilliance packed into this tiny paragraph should be its own thread.  I took notes and am now researching how to integrate this into my life.  One of the best posts I've read on the forum in a while.
Well thanks but not so brilliant as, like most weird little hacks, it takes a lot of flexibility to take advantage of any deals. Having to look at different deals offered, date combos or length of times you're renting ( is often cheaper - sometimes by $100s of dollars -  to add or remove an extra day or shift your start or end date etc), type of car (small compacts are often MORE expensive then a bigger sedan and Evs - even Teslas - can be cheaper) and even renting from a neighborhood location verses an airport which tack on big fees. It can be a PITA.

But for retired people like me who don't own cars, or have beaters they don't want to drive far, it's worth it to check out prices for trips. You can bring other people to split the costs too so my $400 - $500 monthly rental only costs me $200 - $250 plus gas. I usually get upgraded to a small SUV and bring my bike and camping gear so save on motels and usually ride my bike rather then drive when I can.

ETA: for example right now due to spring break and holidays rental cars are expensive so I'd just delay any road trip until prices are lower. But even at high times like now I could rent a small electric. SUV like a Bolt (and likely get upgraded to a Tesla or Polestar) for around $700/month. Too much for me so I could wait. Here's what I found for the 31 days now:


"Electric Small SUV
(E1) Chevrolet Bolt EUV or similar 
 253 mile range
$657.06
USD Per Month"

Here's an actual rental for a mid sized sedan (upgraded to full size or small SUV) for the same time period. Again expensive by my standards but if sharing and wanting to do a longer road trip it's not bad:

DISCOUNTS
CDP Name : AUTO CLUB OF SO CAL,CDP RateYour Rate has been discounted based on the Hertz CDP provided,Promotional Coupon; : 50.00 USD,for 211254 Promotional Coupon has been deducted from base rental charges applied,RQ: BEST
BASE RATE
1 month at 704.35 USD
1 extra day at 25.36 USD
INCLUDED
Unlimited Miles Included
TAXES 59.60 USD
Rate Code: AAAM
Total
778.58 USD
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 11:21:08 AM by spartana »

Fru-Gal

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2024, 11:10:15 AM »
@spartana does a lot of cool mustachian things like walk 5 miles to the airport and book travel in chunks and kick guys to the curb. From what I recall. 😀

spartana

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2024, 11:34:18 AM »
@spartana does a lot of cool mustachian things like walk 5 miles to the airport and book travel in chunks and kick guys to the curb. From what I recall. 😀
Don't forget fighting zombies on my way to the airport ;-).

Just Joe

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Re: New cars are failing at unprecedented rates
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2024, 12:36:18 PM »
Quote
The two-tone Nash Metropolitan is in my top five cars to own

So @iris lily, yesterday I walked by one (that’s been parked somewhat near me for years) and the owner was outside. He told me a tale that made me not such a fan!

OK, first off I say, is that good on gas? He says sort of, but the parts are hard to find, as it’s made in England. Ack, I have a rule never to own Italian or English cars.

But sadly, his car (which was clearly not in good shape anyway) had rust on the frame and was not running. He said when he inherited it a few years ago (from an aunt who used to drive it in parades) he took it to a detailing shop. While he left it there, they had trouble turning it on, not realizing it had a choke.

They tried to get the engine to catch until the battery failed. Then they tried to jump start it, but the car has reversed polarity so they fried the electrical system.

He says I can have it for $2500. 😆

I've been in the old car hobby for ~50 years. There are many variables when speaking about old cars with people. Restore means many things. Restored might mean like new, like the day it was built. For other people restored means they paid somone to give it a quick paint job without addressing many hidden issues (usually rust).

You ought to look at that car closer. And then compare it to the other cars available for sale to see if it is a good deal. Maybe it has terminal rust. Maybe it has some rusty spots that can be easily patched up.

Parts are not hard to come by most likely. This is the age of the internet. You just need to curate good online parts sources, and a good forum or three where you can see answers. 

https://www.shopmetropolitanparts.com

There were more sources but that was what I found in a few seconds of searching.

Address the rust properly. Store the car inside in the future so the rust comes back slowly (it is unlikely you can kill all the rust so if stored inside the rust might not return in 25+ years but eventually, the car will need new paint). Educate yourself enough that you can make good choices even if you don't do the work yourself.

In old cars like this - it is likely that the generator regulator needs to be replaced and the generator possibly repolarized. Simple things. We owned a late 60s British sports car and the battery was installed reversed polarity (normally positive earth). The radio and the electric tachometer did not work. Once my father corrected this problem, he only had to repair the generator. The tach and radio came back to life. In my early 1970s Beetle, I could start and run the car in reverse polarity (normally negative earth, radio off) but the alternator would not charge. Did it on a zero money bet over beers with a gearhead buddy to see what would happen. Once the battery cable were correct again, it charged no problem, no damage. 

Happy to discuss old cars with anyone that wants. Let me know.

My pentacle of cars was also 1999 or so. Our Honda is at ~320K miles. Wished it had more sound insulation and/or 6th gear but otherwise it is all I need most of the time and it still does daily driver duty for DW and I. We do have a nicer travel car that I fear owning too far into the future. Screens x2, fancy radio, fancy engine, fancy transmission, fancy windows, seats, etc. So far trouble free.

Am looking at EVs and might buy a used 3-4 year old Leaf Plus for the same reasons discussed here - touchscreen for the nav and radio but everything else uses buttons. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 12:40:27 PM by Just Joe »