Author Topic: New Car Dilemma  (Read 5889 times)

EarlThePearl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 27
New Car Dilemma
« on: August 09, 2016, 10:01:01 AM »
So I'll probably be in the market for a new(ish) car. Can't do a Miata or MR2 or Honda (family guy here) and need a four seater.  Someone talk some sense into me.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 07:23:22 AM by MichaelNesmith12 »

Kevin S.

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2016, 10:27:10 AM »
Family wagon convertible you say??

http://jalopnik.com/i-spent-a-day-with-the-nissan-murano-crosscabriolet-1721990596
lol

I don't know. Sounds like you need 2 cars. Cheap, cost effective wagon for the family. Something like an accord wagon from the 90's and then get a Miata - also from the 90's. Not sure how your mechanical repair abilitiy is but you can get both of these vehicles for under 5k. insurance is pretty much cheaper than dirt for both of these vehicles. Both are super reliable as well. Miata will be less reliable then the accord - unless it was taken care.

Drifterrider

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 10:36:39 AM »
Used Toyota Solara.  Used Volvo convertible.  Mustang. 

I miss my convertible (Had a 1986 VW Cabriolet). 

ImCheap

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 11:03:44 AM »
Biggest bang for the buck is a mustang, we had one, it was fun, etc. etc. Being a family guy myself I will say it does kinda of suck for a family, the back seat is tight for sure. The pros is you have many to choose from and the price is decent for what you get. Cons are they do rid,e like a well a sports car, its all fun but it does get old unless you are into the bumpy little ride.

If I were to do it again, who knows I may at sometime, I'm going to take a look at dare I say it a Sebring, not a huge Dodge fan but you see a lot of them and they are priced right, they seem to me to be a boring old mans convertible.

Clean Shaven

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 821
  • Location: Wild Wild West
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 11:57:55 AM »
I really would like a convertible

There's really only one choice for you:


Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3770
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2016, 12:19:17 PM »
Mustang, or for something off the wall that MMMers will hate...Jeep Wrangler?

Jack

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4725
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2016, 12:45:36 PM »
TWO Miatas!



Serious answer:

Do you care about things like performance and handling, or do you just want to be able to remove the roof?

If the latter, I'd consider a Jeep Wrangler. I don't think they're necessarily super-reliable, but they hold their value surprisingly well anyway. Plus they're a 'different' kind of sporty, so that's nice.

If the former, then I'd consider the Ford Mustang, BMW 3-series (e36 or e46, not newer), or VW Beetle TDI. (The TDI is a good engine even if it doesn't meet emissions -- which are ridiculously strict for diesels anyway -- and the stigma/buyback should be making it cheap.)

In all cases you should buy used, not new. Even 'loss leader' base model new cars have way higher total cost of ownership than one on which somebody else has paid a couple years worth of depreciation.

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3770
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2016, 01:32:45 PM »
TWO Miatas!



Serious answer:

Do you care about things like performance and handling, or do you just want to be able to remove the roof?

If the latter, I'd consider a Jeep Wrangler. I don't think they're necessarily super-reliable, but they hold their value surprisingly well anyway. Plus they're a 'different' kind of sporty, so that's nice.

If the former, then I'd consider the Ford Mustang, BMW 3-series (e36 or e46, not newer), or VW Beetle TDI. (The TDI is a good engine even if it doesn't meet emissions -- which are ridiculously strict for diesels anyway -- and the stigma/buyback should be making it cheap.)

In all cases you should buy used, not new. Even 'loss leader' base model new cars have way higher total cost of ownership than one on which somebody else has paid a couple years worth of depreciation.

Go check out the resale on a Wrangler, they're astronomical.  Not sure used makes sense there.  Mustang, sure, those depreciate like anything else, if not faster due to fleet sales. 

MilesTeg

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2016, 11:04:01 PM »
Another vote for a Mustang. In the 2015 model Ford finally got with the program and started making needed improvements to interior finish and putting a suspension from this century in the vehicle (independent rear) that gives it a much better ride. Overall those changes have made it a much more appealing vehicle (except to folks who only want them for the drag strip who really hate the independent rear).

Ford also has some decent drive trains that are sporty but not gas guzzling monstrocities, such as the "Ecoboost" model which is a 2.3L turbo I-4 which puts out more horsepower and torque than earlier V-8 models. For much less cost than similar cars mentioned in this thread.

Drifterrider

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2016, 04:54:12 AM »
If I were to do it again, who knows I may at sometime, I'm going to take a look at dare I say it a Sebring, not a huge Dodge fan but you see a lot of them and they are priced right, they seem to me to be a boring old mans convertible.

I like everything about the Sebring except the motor (internal water pump with a really bad reputation).  I rented a convertible for a month (I was in Fla.).  Nothing boring about it :)

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3770
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2016, 01:09:35 PM »
Thanks all. I test drove an 11 Mustang, didn't fall in love but didn't hate it.  Drove a  new Wrangler on vacation and really hated it (highways blah). Drove a VW Eos and loved it. But that hard top looks terrifying if it breaks money-wise- did check all the other boxes though. Why can't they just make a convertible corolla. Come on, toyota get on this.

They make a convertible Camry.  It's called the Solara. 

Kevin S.

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2016, 01:41:45 PM »
Thanks all. I test drove an 11 Mustang, didn't fall in love but didn't hate it.  Drove a  new Wrangler on vacation and really hated it (highways blah). Drove a VW Eos and loved it. But that hard top looks terrifying if it breaks money-wise- did check all the other boxes though. Why can't they just make a convertible corolla. Come on, toyota get on this.

If you like lots of little things breaking, constant cel on and all kinds of stupid little things going wrong all the dang time - get the vw. spoken from experience and working in the industry for over 15 yrs.

The solara is not exactly fun to drive imho...it is however good at being
1. convertible
2. reliable
3. able to seat 3-4 regular sized people reasonably well.

Good luck with whatever you buy.

I'm going back and buying another NA or NB Miata once I have the means fyi...and I have had over 40 cars lol

Miata
IS
Always
The
Answer
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 01:45:05 PM by Kevin S. »

205guy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New Car Dilemna
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2016, 05:09:41 PM »
Wow, are people really recommending mustangs as mustachian family cars? Don't those have huge engines, horrible mileage, cramped back seats, and no trunk space? May be I'm just new to the forums and too much of an idealist, but I think you can do much better.

My background: I like practical hatchbacks and stick shift too. My brother had a tercel for years, most economical car in the day. He drove it into the ground and it saved him tons of money. I had a 96 civic hatchback (stick shift) that got 40-45 mpg and could carry a dozen moving boxes. I had a single friend with a Miata that he let me drive, it was really sweet and I kinda wanted one too--so I totally understand. After a Subaru Impreza wagon that was reliable but only got 25mpg, I have the Nissan Leaf now because I wanted electric, but really it's just a 4-dr hatchback.

Let's start with convertibles: no matter how nice they might be, they have serious drawbacks, and I've never seen one that could be considered a family car. It just seems they don't have any space in the back seat or trunk, let alone 4 doors. That doesn't seem practical for shopping trips and weekends (then again, maybe your family doesn't pack up the tent and sleeping bags and go camping on weekends). Most of the ones mentioned are gas guzzlers: wranglers and mustangs have 5 liter engines. The article about the convertible Marano brought up the issue of visibility and I'd add safety (no roll cage, except in the wrangler). Then there is the issue of extra repairs if the convertible roof ever leaks or gets torn. And you don't mention where you live, but would you really use it? Because if there is any chance of rain, bugs, or even too much heat and sun, the top will tend to stay up all the time, and then you have all the downsides and no benefit.

Frankly, I'm of the school that a good family car is a used 4-dr hatchback, maybe a ford escort, Honda fit, Nissan Versa, or Toyota matrix. If I didn't go electric, that's what I'd have--my Leaf is really just an electric Versa. You should be able to find a decent one of those used for 6-8K and fill all your driving needs and save a lot of money in the long run.

Now, if you really dream of zipping around in a Miata with the top down, like I said, I can relate. They appeal to me because they seem to have that ideal design to fit that niche, and a used one isn't too expensive. It would obviously have to be your second car after the reasonable family car. That said, to keep it mustachian, it really has to be your hobby splurge, that one special thing you indulge in knowingly and lustfully. Buying a Miata as a play car while having other expensive toys or habits (say an expensive gaming rig with the latest titles, or a kitchen remodel) would seem like a frivolous excess if you're saving for FIRE (I don't hand out punches because I'm a pacifist, so I'll leave that to others).

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3770
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: New Car Dilemna
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2016, 05:35:36 PM »
Wow, are people really recommending mustangs as mustachian family cars? Don't those have huge engines, horrible mileage, cramped back seats, and no trunk space? May be I'm just new to the forums and too much of an idealist, but I think you can do much better.

My background: I like practical hatchbacks and stick shift too. My brother had a tercel for years, most economical car in the day. He drove it into the ground and it saved him tons of money. I had a 96 civic hatchback (stick shift) that got 40-45 mpg and could carry a dozen moving boxes. I had a single friend with a Miata that he let me drive, it was really sweet and I kinda wanted one too--so I totally understand. After a Subaru Impreza wagon that was reliable but only got 25mpg, I have the Nissan Leaf now because I wanted electric, but really it's just a 4-dr hatchback.

Let's start with convertibles: no matter how nice they might be, they have serious drawbacks, and I've never seen one that could be considered a family car. It just seems they don't have any space in the back seat or trunk, let alone 4 doors. That doesn't seem practical for shopping trips and weekends (then again, maybe your family doesn't pack up the tent and sleeping bags and go camping on weekends). Most of the ones mentioned are gas guzzlers: wranglers and mustangs have 5 liter engines. The article about the convertible Marano brought up the issue of visibility and I'd add safety (no roll cage, except in the wrangler). Then there is the issue of extra repairs if the convertible roof ever leaks or gets torn. And you don't mention where you live, but would you really use it? Because if there is any chance of rain, bugs, or even too much heat and sun, the top will tend to stay up all the time, and then you have all the downsides and no benefit.

Frankly, I'm of the school that a good family car is a used 4-dr hatchback, maybe a ford escort, Honda fit, Nissan Versa, or Toyota matrix. If I didn't go electric, that's what I'd have--my Leaf is really just an electric Versa. You should be able to find a decent one of those used for 6-8K and fill all your driving needs and save a lot of money in the long run.

Now, if you really dream of zipping around in a Miata with the top down, like I said, I can relate. They appeal to me because they seem to have that ideal design to fit that niche, and a used one isn't too expensive. It would obviously have to be your second car after the reasonable family car. That said, to keep it mustachian, it really has to be your hobby splurge, that one special thing you indulge in knowingly and lustfully. Buying a Miata as a play car while having other expensive toys or habits (say an expensive gaming rig with the latest titles, or a kitchen remodel) would seem like a frivolous excess if you're saving for FIRE (I don't hand out punches because I'm a pacifist, so I'll leave that to others).


There are a lot of errors and incorrect assumptions in here, but I will address two:

1.  Mustangs are not all 5.0s, most likely he would end up with a 3.7L V6 which is not great/not terrible on gas.  He could get an Ecoboost, but those are only from 2015+ and I'm guessing he won't be shopping for cars that new.  Jeeps don't have 5.0L engines at all, usually 4.0 or 3.6/3.8.

2.  There is a big difference between "a family car" and "a car that can accommodate a family."  OP didn't mention it but it's entirely possible he has a spouse with a car that is more suited to traveling, etc, and his car only needs to satisfy the "I'm running late can you pick up the kids" thing. 


Also, most people who want a convertible want a convertible, they don't care that it isn't "practical for shopping trips and weekends."  He'll quickly find out if he's a convertible person or not. 

205guy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2016, 06:44:56 PM »
1. Yes pardon me if I got some tiny car facts wrong. 2015 3.7L v6 mustang gets a huge whopping 22mpg combined. Jeeps do top out at 4.0L, my mistake. For example the 2010 3.8 L wrangler got an even worse 17mpg combined. So not really wrong on the bigger picture. Apart from that one about 5.0 jeeps, where are the other factual errors?

2. If the OP didn't mention it, how can we take it into account? Op never really said whether they're a 1 or 2 car household or what the requirements are. I guess I was assuming they were going with one car, because of the context.

"Most people who want a convertible want a convertible"

WHAT FORUM IS THIS???

Also, OP was seemingly asking to be talked out of the convertible. So I gave some arguments, but actually gave a counter-argument myself. If the guy really wants a Miata, you have to pick up the kids once a month or the kids have to wait 15 minutes is a poor excuse not to get one.

revisednut

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2016, 08:01:32 PM »
Not a comfortable family convertible, but probably a bit better for a family than the Mustang. It's great for large dog, top down rides.  Picked up this 2003 Eclipse Spyder for $1,000 a couple years ago.  It ended up needing an engine, but they show up on CL all the time for ~$3k.  Mid 20's gas mileage, and available in an combination of 4 cyl/6 cyl auto/standard.

EarlThePearl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2016, 07:03:03 AM »
thanks all. Drove the Solara and liked it. now off to find someone who wants to get rid of an 2007+ with low miles and a clean title.

Kevin S.

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2016, 01:18:51 PM »
Nice!  Post pics of your car when you get it please(if you don't mind).

Glad you decided on the solara. Probably the most reasonable cost effective unreasonable car purchase (IE - convertible )  you can make !

Jack

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4725
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2016, 02:06:29 PM »
Glad you decided on the solara. Probably the most reasonable cost effective unreasonable car purchase (IE - convertible )  you can make !

Nope, that's still a Miata.  ; )

Kevin S.

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2016, 02:19:01 PM »
Glad you decided on the solara. Probably the most reasonable cost effective unreasonable car purchase (IE - convertible )  you can make !

Nope, that's still a Miata.  ; )

haha agreed! For the sake of the op prerequisite of a back seat though...I can't think of a better convertible than the solara (can't believe I just said/typed that lol)

MilesTeg

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Re: New Car Dilemna
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2016, 02:50:25 PM »

There are a lot of errors and incorrect assumptions in here, but I will address two:

1.  Mustangs are not all 5.0s, most likely he would end up with a 3.7L V6 which is not great/not terrible on gas.  He could get an Ecoboost, but those are only from 2015+ and I'm guessing he won't be shopping for cars that new.  Jeeps don't have 5.0L engines at all, usually 4.0 or 3.6/3.8.

And a lot of car and more practical compared to other offerings like an MX-5 (miata) or other cars that offer a convertible option. Certainly not "Mustachian" but if the desire is for a relatively sane, not wholly specialized as a toy, convertible it's a decent choice. Can actually fit 4 full size people, has a usable trunk, and the V6s and EcoBoost are not crazy gas hogs. Low cost sporty car/convertible is the precise target market Ford has in mind...

Is it a good "Mustachian" choice? Nope, but not everyone is fanatically Mustachian...

gggggg

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 428
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2016, 05:44:40 PM »
I was going to suggest the solara too. I have a newer vw, never had a prob, despite their reputation. I've had more problems with my 4 fords, than any other make I've had, including audi and vw.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22318
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: New Car Dilemma
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2016, 10:35:54 AM »
Hmmm, I am going to suggest a little delayed gratification. Buy the more practical (used) car now and  get the (used) convertible as a prize for achieving FI. This is the MMM Forum, riiiiight?