Siren Song of Megacorp is Calling

[tooqk4u22]

I have been out for three years almost and have had many opportunities to get back in the game, all of which I ignored or had no interest.  Recently, some former colleagues of mine have been doing the hard push to draw me out of retirement and for the first time I am contemplating it, but I don't think for the right reasons. I told them flexibility and independence is more important to me than ever and they said "Sure no problem, come into the office a couple days a week (there is a commute) and do you what you need to do."  But knowing them, they are more "Office" people than not although that could have changed.   

One, I do like being wanted (ego) especially considering its been three years and I remain not only a viable option but a better option then they must have available. 

Two, market turbulence combined with inflation has me on edge a little, and unbelievably way more than when the markets crashed for than pandemic.   We are still around 4% but on a pretty fat budget, but costs have been rising really fast - just food alone is running almost $100 a week more than last year and what we get hasn't really changed....I mean that's almost $5k run rate for the year not to mention all the other categories having 3 teens.   So offsetting that for a bit and padding some accounts or investments while market is down and inflation is up is appealing. 

Three, get the mental gears going again to see if I can still perform at a high level.


At the end of the day, I don't think I really want to do it but it could be the smart play at a time when financials have my head twisted. 

[ChpBstrd]

Usually when markets are in turmoil and there is economic trouble on the horizon, it's a bad time to get a job because unemployment is going up. Thus the arguments about how people's "financial flexibility" might not save them from sequence of returns risk.

This is kind of a unique moment because unemployment is virtually nothing and megacorps have to recruit people out of retirement because there's no one else left.

I also think there is probably a recession in our future, and a lot of people with 6 months tenure will be the ones laid off at that time. If not, it isn't like you can't just quit on the day it gets old again.

So you have this rando internet person's permission if you'd like to give it a shot. I would be tempted if my portfolio had fallen to the point it is no longer 25x or if I had run out of things to do in retirement and was watching TV or staring at the internet for hours a day.

Best case scenario, you settle into a new routine six months from now and then it starts to get old again, but there's a recession and so you have a meeting where they hand you a four-figure severance package and a cardboard box. They mistake your stoic countenance for shock and try to soothe you, but actually you're indifferent. Off you go back into the world of the retired, having protected your nest egg from selling at the bottom, getting to enjoy the bliss of retiring a second time, and having a new appreciation for it all.

[cool7hand]

Doesn't the title of the post say all you need to know about your own subconscious's opinion?

[ducky19]

You're already FIRE. Don't forget that the FI stands for Financially Independent. You don't need the job, but it is a perfect time to snatch additional dollars and plow them into the market while it's down - especially if you're bored. Going into the office when you know you can walk out any day and never return feels a lot different than going in when you truly need it to survive. I'd say give it a go for six months and see how it feels. When you do re-enter retirement, you'll have preserved your nest egg, added more to it at the best possible time, and be all set for a truly Fat FIRE!

If you decide to resist the siren call and you're concerned about the egg, make your "job" to examine your burn and optimize it - I'm sure there are plenty of areas that you can cut back or substitute that will substantially reduce your burn without sacrificing quality of life. Good luck to you, whichever path you choose!

[ixtap]

If you have been out three years and are still young, it might not be a horrible idea to keep the resume current.

If you don't like it, you could always quit again.

[Villanelle]

Is this an indefinite job, or something for a set period?  I'd be tempted, if it was part time.  I'd confirm it was truly flexible, perhaps with specifics "I'd plan to be in the office half day T and TH, and full day either M or W, depending on what else I have going on, and I'd probably take about 10 days off sometime lat summer or fall."  If they didn't balk at that, I might go for it since it sounds like you'd enjoy the challenge.  If you hate it, quit or change the terms. 

[jrhampt]

I work for a megacorp...I like them.  Higher salary budgets, lots of PTO...anyway, I wouldn't do it for less than 100% remote.  None of this hybrid crap, if they really want you they'll take you with a fully remote schedule.  Fully remote work is soooo much better than anything else.  Except full retirement, maybe. 

[ender]

Give them a number that's high enough you'd actually do it.

It might be stupidly high.

[tooqk4u22]

Kind of surprised, and relieved, by the responses so far...means I am not alone in playing in the gray areas of life..

Is this an indefinite job, or something for a set period?  I'd be tempted, if it was part time.  I'd confirm it was truly flexible, perhaps with specifics "I'd plan to be in the office half day T and TH, and full day either M or W, depending on what else I have going on, and I'd probably take about 10 days off sometime lat summer or fall."  If they didn't balk at that, I might go for it since it sounds like you'd enjoy the challenge.  If you hate it, quit or change the terms. 

Full time permanent forever job. (Unless I quit if I do it 🤔🤣), but yeah I would still being taking some days in the summer and beyond.  Not sure about the flex schedule, as I said they say the right things buuuttt who knows.

I work for a megacorp...I like them.  Higher salary budgets, lots of PTO...anyway, I wouldn't do it for less than 100% remote.  None of this hybrid crap, if they really want you they'll take you with a fully remote schedule.  Fully remote work is soooo much better than anything else.  Except full retirement, maybe. 

Yeah, that's kind of the problem!  Aside from that it won't be 100% remote, which is fine as long as it's not every day and I can come and go generally as I please.

Give them a number that's high enough you'd actually do it.

It might be stupidly high.

It's megacorp so $ can only be so much, so aside from flexibility I want to be sure the incentive comp structure makes sense and achieveable.....if I am doing this I want to kill it, the salary is less important......people who are clipping coupons worry about that.

[Ron Scott]

At the end of the day, I don't think I really want to do it but it could be the smart play at a time when financials have my head twisted.

There was a segment on Bloomberg the other day describing how many “investors” have “gone to cash”, specifically the USD, avoiding equities and bonds, looking around the world, and betting on The Almighty. They are poor souls—nervous nellies with a college degree who mistakenly believe having an active strategy and acting on it means they have an edge.

I am happy to sit back financially and do nothing but watch the boring 50-50 morph into 60-40, then 55-45, etc., able live off interest and dividends, and only worry about the rise of wing-nut totalitarianism, climate change, and what to grill tonight.

Worrying about normal economic cycles is nature’s way of telling you you’re not FI.

[tooqk4u22]

.

Worrying about normal economic cycles is nature’s way of telling you you’re not FI.

Not really worried about a normal cycle, again I wasn't really phased at all when markets crashed at the start of the pandemic when my investments were less. The slight worry is the high inflationary environment (more like stagflation)  as historically that has  been a financial killer, especially if it doesn't moderate quickly - only time 4% rule failed.  So yeah call me crazy that there is historical evidence of long term failure with this kind of environment.   

So not withdrawing for a year or two on top of likely putting away the equivalent of another year or two would serve as an excellent hedge against inflation, not to mention padding for 3 teens approaching college.  Is it a form of OMY, maybe, but if I can set my terms (mostly) and enjoy it then why not. 

There are also other non-financial aspects that weigh in.   

And still I may not do it.

[thesis]

I'd say go for it. It could be a unique opportunity. Some people continue working after FI, too, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to feel like a valuable team member as long as your life isn't dominated by this desire. If I were retired but were given a somewhat leisurely way to make an impact in the world [aside from my own goals] and make some cash along the way, I'd seriously consider it.

[RedmondStash]

I've been having similar thoughts about possibly going back to work, but part-time.

If you're tempted, I'd recommend figuring out what the sticking points are, and ask for what you want instead. Don't like full-time? Ask for 20 hours a week max (but be sure you understand how that affects benefits; if 30 hours a week is worth it to you and gets benefits you want, consider that instead). Don't like going into the office? Ask for fully remote. Don't feel it's worth your time for $x? Ask for $2x.

Srsly, if you figure out what would make it worth it to you, the worst they can do is say no, and you're where you are now. If they say yes, you get a job tailor-made for your preferences.

It's awesome having leverage in a job negotiation. I once negotiated for an hourly rate that was literally twice what I'd been hired at several years before, and they said yes without even blinking. Employers often have more flexibility than they're willing to admit unless you ask.

If you try it and it doesn't work out, you leave. If you don't try it, you might always wonder if you would have enjoyed going back.

[Fru-Gal]

I am in your exact situation. I’ve told them no twice. I gave them a stupidly high number although I also then stupidly gave them a range that was 50 K lower than that lol. I finally said why the heck not, updated my résumé and filled out the application. Haven’t heard anything. I really have no idea if it will happen or not. And don’t feel strongly about it.

[tooqk4u22]

If you try it and it doesn't work out, you leave. If you don't try it, you might always wonder if you would have enjoyed going back.

I think that is factor, its the opportunity NOW to do something vs the fear if wanted or needed at a later date only to realize there are no more opportunities:( 

[tooqk4u22]

Well, it's been a few months and there have more discussions, I did my best to let it drag out so I could preserve my summer.   They also had to get internal approval to formally create and post the position, which they just did. 

I decided to submit the application and let it play out to see what the actual offer will be.   I am now sort of dragging it out to get a possible start date in November when all of my kids fall activities are mostly over.  Not sure why they are interested in me...lol.

Financial markets haven't gotten any better since I originally posted this SP500  down another 11% since then and bonds been it too) and expenses are higher when my portfolio is getting ever closer to the amount it was when I FIREd 3 years ago ....FIREd with 3.25-3.5% WR and now closer to 3.75-4%......not dire so if it doesn't work out it will be fine most likely.   

I should also add that another company that tried to hire me back in 2019 called me last week to see if I wanted to come work for them...so bizarre, I really didnt think i was that good and 3 years out couldn't have made me any better...haha.

Will keep you updated.

[bacchi]

I went through something similar recently. I received a call about a job that seemed fun and challenging and the pay was decent BUT it was full time and hybrid office. I told them that I only do contracts (C2C), WFH 100%, and don't want to work more than 30/week. Fine, fine, they agreed.

As I went through the interview, I realized that they really didn't know how to handle contractors and that some of the interviewers weren't informed. I finally bailed after a line of "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" questions.


tl;dr Make sure that they really mean and understand what you're negotiating. Some HR/managers/recruiters just want to fill the recs and will agree with whatever ask (other than salary) you make.

[Dave1442397]

I finally bailed after a line of "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" questions.

I had to laugh at that. My manager must have been told to ask everyone where they saw themselves in five years, as we went through this exercise a couple of weeks ago. The current ages of my co-workers:

#1: 74 (why this person is still working is beyond me)
#2: 73 (this one is paying off kid's college loans)
#3: 69 (plans to retire next year)
#4: 67 (got laid off last week)

and there are four of us in our fifties.

The 67-year-old who got laid off left with a year's pay in severance, plus can claim unemployment for 26 weeks. I can't imagine a better going-away present. You could buy a solid-gold Rolex with maybe 20% of that package.

Anyway, we all basically had to make up stuff to pretend we cared about the company and our place in it five years from now.

[ChpBstrd]

I finally bailed after a line of "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" questions.

I had to laugh at that. My manager must have been told to ask everyone where they saw themselves in five years, as we went through this exercise a couple of weeks ago. The current ages of my co-workers:

#1: 74 (why this person is still working is beyond me)
#2: 73 (this one is paying off kid's college loans)
#3: 69 (plans to retire next year)
#4: 67 (got laid off last week)

and there are four of us in our fifties.

The 67-year-old who got laid off left with a year's pay in severance, plus can claim unemployment for 26 weeks. I can't imagine a better going-away present. You could buy a solid-gold Rolex with maybe 20% of that package.

Anyway, we all basically had to make up stuff to pretend we cared about the company and our place in it five years from now.

That whole exercise, applied to employees in their 60s and 70s, looks like a big "hint" to me.

[Dave1442397]

I finally bailed after a line of "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" questions.

I had to laugh at that. My manager must have been told to ask everyone where they saw themselves in five years, as we went through this exercise a couple of weeks ago. The current ages of my co-workers:

#1: 74 (why this person is still working is beyond me)
#2: 73 (this one is paying off kid's college loans)
#3: 69 (plans to retire next year)
#4: 67 (got laid off last week)

and there are four of us in our fifties.

The 67-year-old who got laid off left with a year's pay in severance, plus can claim unemployment for 26 weeks. I can't imagine a better going-away present. You could buy a solid-gold Rolex with maybe 20% of that package.

Anyway, we all basically had to make up stuff to pretend we cared about the company and our place in it five years from now.

That whole exercise, applied to employees in their 60s and 70s, looks like a big "hint" to me.

You never know what's going on around here. They spent a few years trying to outsource our work to India, but gave up on that when they realized that all the extra time being spent on projects was us fixing everything done in India. The current initiative is to rewrite our Fortran/DCL/Python code (all 18 million+ lines of it) in Java, also as an offshore project. That's supposed to go live for the first client in 2023. Good luck with that...from what I hear, they haven't come close to nailing down specs yet.

Anyway, I don't care if they lay me off at this point. I'm sure I can find something that'll let me coast to retirement.

[bryan995]

The comments here remind my why I am now in a perpetual OMY loop.

I will never make more than I do now, and after stopping, it would be incredibly difficult to return at a similar level.  Hence - I will continue working until income peaks / stagnates and or my stash is so large that the temptation of returning for more $ is < 0.001 %.

My advice / if you are going for return. Make sure it is a remote job. Working remote is truly wonderful. No commute. No office politics. No nonsense. Just simply trading hours for money. ;)

[ender]

It also depends if you are happy or content or hate your job as to the value of that tradeoff.

I like what I'm doing well enough now that if I was in a OMY situation this year it'd be an easy trade for me, getting paid well for something I generally enjoy is ok with me.

[rothwem]

I don't know if anyone here is really on the same page as me, but COVID and WFH really changed my goals from wanting to FIRE to badly to just wanting just FI, and being able to give the middle finger to someone if they really pissed me off at work.  To me, the OP's situation seems perfect, and I wouldn't hesitate to take the job if they meet his compensation and flexibility goals.  I really don't see a downside.  Why couldn't the OP just leave if he hates it?

[NoVa]

I retired at the end of 2021. My replacement just crashed and burned (and was fired) last week. They would love to have me come back, they didn't want me to leave, but:
1. I don't want to
2. I don't need the money

[tooqk4u22]

I went through something similar recently. I received a call about a job that seemed fun and challenging and the pay was decent BUT it was full time and hybrid office. I told them that I only do contracts (C2C), WFH 100%, and don't want to work more than 30/week. Fine, fine, they agreed.

As I went through the interview, I realized that they really didn't know how to handle contractors and that some of the interviewers weren't informed. I finally bailed after a line of "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" questions.


tl;dr Make sure that they really mean and understand what you're negotiating. Some HR/managers/recruiters just want to fill the recs and will agree with whatever ask (other than salary) you make.

Where do you see yourself in five years....ummm, not working.....wrong answer?   

I really only see this as a 1-3 year thing for me if I get and accept it, uess I am having a lot of fun but it's megacorp so that is unlikely over long periods of time.

[tooqk4u22]

I don't know if anyone here is really on the same page as me, but COVID and WFH really changed my goals from wanting to FIRE to badly to just wanting just FI, and being able to give the middle finger to someone if they really pissed me off at work.  To me, the OP's situation seems perfect, and I wouldn't hesitate to take the job if they meet his compensation and flexibility goals.  I really don't see a downside.  Why couldn't the OP just leave if he hates it?

I need I could....but my nature is to meet my self imposed view of the obligation, which to me is a least a year and that is largely due to it is someone I have known for a long time putting their neck out there for me and lesser bc it takes at least six months to settle into a new job (or re-acclimate for someone who has been out as long as I have.

[tooqk4u22]

Well, six months after the OP and dodging and deflecting to get through summer fun time and fall suck time (crazy kid activity schedules), and after quite a bit of reflection (not to mention a pretty darn good offer) I have accepted a position.   

When I started this thread in May I was thinking more about money and risk hedging but as time went my sentiment shifted to the productivity/intellectual aspect of this as through the summer and into the fall I began to feel complacent and at times bored.   I think I kind of ran out of big things to do combined with the fact that I am still limited to being home most days because of kids school and activities.   I suspect if I was able to hit the road or travel more broadly then maybe the decision would be different. 

That said over the last 3+ years I can't recall having a bad day or ever being unhappy, moreso days that were not as highly satisfying and those increased over the last several months. 

I am looking forward  to it overall but realize there are things that I wont like but that is part of having a job.  Time wise my short goal is about 15 months (get to comp cycle)  and  max 3 years. But if it's terrible or misrepresented then I could be out in a few months, if it's great and having fun then maybe it will be longer than 3 years. 

Guess all I have to do now is resign from the 2019 thread.   

[ChpBstrd]

Good luck @tooqk4u22.

Your new career may be brief if recession hits and you're the newest member of the team, but in that event you will have plowed all your paychecks into buying at the bottom, right?

[tooqk4u22]

Good luck @tooqk4u22.

Your new career may be brief if recession hits and you're the newest member of the team, but in that event you will have plowed all your paychecks into buying at the bottom, right?

Thanks.  No skin off my back if that happens.   But In reality it's a small team with few experienced people in the market (hence why they were chasing me even though i hadn't worked in the last few years) so the revenue side would slow and my role would partially shift to more risk management....and that might cause me not to want to do it anymore.

 Either way could be back on the sidelines enjoying my leisurely cup of coffee every morning, long walks everyday and doing whatever I want....oh the peril if that happens. 

[mistymoney]

Well, six months after the OP and dodging and deflecting to get through summer fun time and fall suck time (crazy kid activity schedules), and after quite a bit of reflection (not to mention a pretty darn good offer) I have accepted a position.   

When I started this thread in May I was thinking more about money and risk hedging but as time went my sentiment shifted to the productivity/intellectual aspect of this as through the summer and into the fall I began to feel complacent and at times bored.   I think I kind of ran out of big things to do combined with the fact that I am still limited to being home most days because of kids school and activities.   I suspect if I was able to hit the road or travel more broadly then maybe the decision would be different. 

That said over the last 3+ years I can't recall having a bad day or ever being unhappy, moreso days that were not as highly satisfying and those increased over the last several months. 

I am looking forward  to it overall but realize there are things that I wont like but that is part of having a job.  Time wise my short goal is about 15 months (get to comp cycle)  and  max 3 years. But if it's terrible or misrepresented then I could be out in a few months, if it's great and having fun then maybe it will be longer than 3 years. 

Guess all I have to do now is resign from the 2019 thread.   

Well congrats and good luck!!!

[tooqk4u22]

Update (not that anyone cares)...

It's been 3 months since I started and it's gone by pretty quick...of course it's only 3 months.

Wasn't sure how to approach this so a pros and cons thus far seems appropriate with some comments to original thoughts.

PROS:
- fire hose of cash coming in.  Kind of forgot that when so much is coming in it doesn't matter.   Most has been put away but some has paid for vacay....although that was going to happen whether I was working or not...so does that count.   Ok, spending on vacation and accounts don't go down...yay. And this doesn't even factor annual bonus should I get one.

- using the brain, negotiating and crunching data has been good.

-hybrid work environment (but see below).  Boss is really good about flexibility as discussed and regularly suggests I can work from home.  Worked from one over the holidays and a week when I had covid, as well as a Friday here and there. 

-paid vacations....yeah it only been 3 months but have taken 7 days paid time off already and had a few paid holidays.  The reality is that out of the 3 months I probably have only worked 3 full 5 day weeks, which is crazy.   

CONS:
- Don't work from home. Commute sucks.
           -  somewhat self inflicted but I don't work well at home and when I really have to be focused on crunching data, writing or presenting I prefer to be in my office partly due to the setup and also lack of distractions. 

- health has suffered.  Definitely not exercising as much and eating more poorly. Weight is up.   Can't blame all of this on work due to holidays and lack of motivation during cold gloomy winter months but I am sure my willpower is eroded by the job.

- stress/anxiety is up.  Again I feel this is self induced.  My boss nor others have been putting pressure on me and really I am ahead of what they expected.  But I want to perform and excel (and want a big bonus)...it's so weird that I am type a professionally and type b (or c or d) non-professionally.  My boss is a kind of work first person but as i said has put no pressure on me and really reinforces that good to do what we talked about...but that weighs on me too.

-time....doesn't matter whether in office or working at home, simply too much time dedicated to something that is not nirvana (not because it's bad but it's not blissful or what I would be doing if I weren't being paid)

In any event, the fire hose of cash has somewhat eased concerns about the ever increasing costs due to inflation and increased spending related to having 3 teens.  Also offset some travel we plan to do.  And with some continued good fortune will pad the college accounts further as the year goes on.   

TLDR, there are tangible positives that are largely offset by my own idiosyncrasies....I am my own worst enemy. 

So it's probably neutral to slightly negative at this point.   I indicated that this would be a 1-3 year target and right now I would err on the shorter end of that but still glad I chose to do it. There is no free lunch....except when I am with clients. Haha.

I reserve my right to change my opinion.

[Ron Scott]

Good for you!

True Fi is robust with regard to inflation, challenging market conditions, variable expenses in old age for you and spouse, family needs,  and personal changes in attitude toward what lifestyle you want in your future.

The right number is underestimated more than we think.

[moneytaichi]

I was in a similar situation of returning to megacorp after 3.5 years of absence. My old unhealthy work habits and believes (e.g. perfectionist, people-pleaser and overachiever) rose up instantly. Perhaps we have been brainwashed for so long. If you have enough patience and self-love, you can use this opportunity to rewrite your life stories. Put your needs ahead of achievements, recognitions and money. Advocate for yourself, e.g. drop undesirable tasks or WFH half of time (even it's just working from a co-working place or coffeeshops). Allocate enough time and energy so you can exercise and eat well. When you can master that, you are invincible. I am still working towards these healthy habits. You are in good company ;-)

[tooqk4u22]

It appears that it has been a while since I have updated.  And since I went down the path of returning to work I set the table such that I would give it a 12 to 18 months to figure it out and ideally get to bonus time.  Bonus time is here. They treated me pretty good considering it was just an ok year.

In short, I went back to work because WR was rising fast due to higher spending and lower balances at a time when I felt I could use a mental push.  Primary money goal was to pad college and travel funds - objective met. Quite a bit is set aside for college (if they go to in-state public then we have overfunded and they each could have a car in their future and mom and dad will have some $ coming back to us) and we increased the travel/capex separate account quite a bit such that is now at a point that it should cover a good amount on its own outside of FIRE funds - sort of a pension fund for travel and capex. I get it - mental gymnastics as money is fungible and all that.

As for FIRE funds, could have done better.  They recovered nicely but due to conservative AA and international allocation it is not anywhere near what SP 500 has done - although that is almost entirely attributed to the last 3-4 months performance of the SP 500.   Maybe I will get a catch up trade. 

Spending for the first time in years has flattened out and maybe declined slightly.  So with market increases the WR would be back down to low 3% range and that includes a buttload spent on direct kids stuff (activities, school stuff, etc and not food, clothing, car insurance, etc).

While I have certainly enjoyed the analysis and negotiation parts of the job there is still a lot of nothingness and bureaucracy that comes with megacorp and I have been going into the office (now expected) 4 days a week with a commute that when it is good is an hour each way.   

My weight has gone up like the stock market and physical health has declined significantly - I am amazed how fast it goes down hill.  And it may be an excuse but the commute and office time (combined is typically 11-12 hours....of basically just sitting in a car or office burning like 3 calories a day) leaves me with no energy to want to do anything - and really much time before and after work is attributed to getting ready for work or dealing with kids stuff.  And the 5th day is still work, just without the commute. Snacking and adult beverages has increased too.  I just have not been good about balancing it all. 

I know I should, could, and need to FIRE again, for my health if nothing else.

And I will admit I am back to being addicted to the firehose of cash that comes in each month and though I think college is covered those numbers are still astronomical. The reality is that if once the kids are off the payroll (not for a while) there really shouldn't be any financial worries - and even now the FIRE budget includes all these kids expenses. 

I have a vacation planned next month and boss has a bunch of travel between now and then (I don't) so I may get through April and give notice. 

That's the update, hopefully I have the stones to do it.

thanks for reading.

[Fru-Gal]

I can totally imagine I would be sucked back into that culture if I returned to my megacorp job.

Instead, my goal in FIRE has been to be in the best shape of my life, and I feel this year is promising to make that happen thanks to a 6-week fitness challenge I just completed that really taught me a lot about what my particular body needs to be in optimal shape — despite being someone who already knows a lot about fitness/strength training etc, and already eats well.

My insight after completing these 6 weeks is that I was wanting to use magical thinking to be in the shape I wanted to be in, but when I look at many of my life successes, maybe some luck and magic were part of them, but the systems and testing and knowledge and new goals are what gave results. “My body is a garden” is also a new thought, meaning that it has specific requirements and when I give it those things, it’s amazing how it flourishes.

In the challenge, we covered goal setting, nutrition, strength training and sleep hygiene.

All this to say, your health not being optimal, is, in my book, an emergency. When my megacorp came back to me 6 months after FIRE and offered me nearly twice what I was making before, I COULD NOT SLEEP for weeks while going through the interview process. Thankfully eventually I flew too close to the sun with the offer, and the total package was denied by a shocked executive. Saved! So, I totally know how hard it is to turn off the firehouse of cash.

That said, health is wealth. You can’t get those excess years spent at a desk back!

[Fru-Gal]

I did want to add that having the job and being in optimal health are not impossible, at all. I have been in peak shape while working many times in my life.

A big issue with weight gain is not enough non-exercise activity (called NEAT, or non-exercise activity thermogenesis).

You want to aim for 10k to 20k steps per day, in addition to exercise 2-5 days a week with 2-4 strength sessions of at least 30 minutes. But just the steps alone (preferably outdoors, getting sunlight) will make a MASSIVE difference in your energy levels.

One of the things that I was doing wrong the last few years is my NEAT went down even when my weekly exercise was good. That’s why sustainable routines, plus daily NEAT via walking (zone 2 cardio), are the key to fitness. When you work too hard, you spend the rest of the day immobile.

The big issue, which you identified, is your commute.

I would also start making as many of your meetings “walking meetings” as possible.

Wow, a memory just popped up from 30 years ago when I was starting my career. It was some executive saying that the most important thing on your to do list every day was exercise. It stuck with me and I live by that.

[tooqk4u22]

@Fru-Gal you are not wrong. Before I went back to work I was walking (myself, with DW, the dog, etc) minimum 4 miles a day and sometimes 12 miles, when I was tracking it I was averaging about 6.5 a day.  That was including other exercise or the NEAT stuff you mention.

It wasn't like I was in peak shape, but healthy - I have always been the type that would have to work hard at it on both the exercise and nutrition sides to get to so called peak but that isn't really important to me.  I am fine with being a little soft as long as I can play some hoops or swim or do a modest run without getting winded all the while keep enjoying some good food, snacks and drinks in moderation.   

As I said it's partly excuses on my part, I am sure I can manage to exercise at 9-11pm but I simply don't have the energy or desire to do so by then, and I can cut out the the crap but I digress.

I am envious of those people that have the energy to get up at 4:30am and get a good workout it before a long slog of a day - I did that when I was younger and when kids were little but I only required 4-6 hours of sleep back then. 


As they say...the first step is admitting you have a problem.......I have a problem and I need to fix it.

[2sk22]

...
In short, I went back to work because WR was rising fast due to higher spending and lower balances at a time when I felt I could use a mental push.  Primary money goal was to pad college and travel funds - objective met. Quite a bit is set aside for college (if they go to in-state public then we have overfunded and they each could have a car in their future and mom and dad will have some $ coming back to us) and we increased the travel/capex separate account quite a bit such that is now at a point that it should cover a good amount on its own outside of FIRE funds - sort of a pension fund for travel and capex. I get it - mental gymnastics as money is fungible and all that.
...

If there is one thing I can help you with it is this: college costs will almost certainly be higher than you expect. Apart from the basic costs of college, even paid internships can wind up costing you some money if  the internship is in an expensive area. Also, both of my daughters were forced to move to off campus housing from junior year onwards for various reasons. In our case, I included a padding of 25% when estimating college costs which has turned out to be necessary.  Given your position, with three kids potentially off to college, you probably did the right thing in going back to work.

[tooqk4u22]

...
In short, I went back to work because WR was rising fast due to higher spending and lower balances at a time when I felt I could use a mental push.  Primary money goal was to pad college and travel funds - objective met. Quite a bit is set aside for college (if they go to in-state public then we have overfunded and they each could have a car in their future and mom and dad will have some $ coming back to us) and we increased the travel/capex separate account quite a bit such that is now at a point that it should cover a good amount on its own outside of FIRE funds - sort of a pension fund for travel and capex. I get it - mental gymnastics as money is fungible and all that.
...

If there is one thing I can help you with it is this: college costs will almost certainly be higher than you expect. Apart from the basic costs of college, even paid internships can wind up costing you some money if  the internship is in an expensive area. Also, both of my daughters were forced to move to off campus housing from junior year onwards for various reasons. In our case, I included a padding of 25% when estimating college costs which has turned out to be necessary.  Given your position, with three kids potentially off to college, you probably did the right thing in going back to work.

Great, now I have to work OMY to cover more than I expected!. 

Seriously, the off campus housing can be a real issue at many schools and I hadn't thought of costs related to possible internships if in area other than college, which ties back to housing as many make you sign 12 month leases no semester/ academic year leases like in the past.....would suck to have to pay to rents.   Then possible semesters abroad and whatever else.

 But we should have enough cushion and kids have been well informed about budget (we set aside 35% more than we told them)....if they go over it's on them with loans or if they don't graduate in 4 years difference is on them.

[PhilB]

+1 to everything Fru-Gal said about your health and exercise.  Most of us get to a point where we just don't have enough spoons to cope with both a FT job and enough physical activity to stay fit - I know I didn't.  Since FIREing in 2018 I am just so much fitter and healthier than when I worked and I wouldn't trade that for any amount of money.

The question you need to ask is, 'Is there a way to make the job situation sustainable?' Because it clearly isn't at the moment.  That commute is a killer, so can you create a better home work station?  Would PT be an option?  You don't NEED the firehose, so it definitely isn't worth killing yourself for.

I can definitely recommend PT.  Personally I'm 0.2 FTE, 100% WFH and that works so well I'll probably keep going all the way to NRA :)

[Shuchong]

+1 to everything Fru-Gal said about your health and exercise.  Most of us get to a point where we just don't have enough spoons to cope with both a FT job and enough physical activity to stay fit - I know I didn't.  Since FIREing in 2018 I am just so much fitter and healthier than when I worked and I wouldn't trade that for any amount of money.

The question you need to ask is, 'Is there a way to make the job situation sustainable?' Because it clearly isn't at the moment.  That commute is a killer, so can you create a better home work station?  Would PT be an option?  You don't NEED the firehose, so it definitely isn't worth killing yourself for.

I can definitely recommend PT.  Personally I'm 0.2 FTE, 100% WFH and that works so well I'll probably keep going all the way to NRA :)

Seconding (or third-ing?) this!  Rather than quit at the end of the month, why not go to your boss and say "I've been hear over a year, and I think I've done good work and been useful to you, but this isn't working for me.  Perhaps we could work something out where I get a job I can do while attending to my health and you get a good worker.  Could I come in once a week, and go down to .8 FTE [or insert ask of your choice here]."

The worst thing they can do is say no, and then you quit.  But I have been consistently surprised at how willing employers are to work with you if you ask.