My Mom Thinks I Can't Do It Even Though She Did It

[oldtoyota]

We've talked on this board about whether to tell people our plans. I'd told my ILs and the response was not very positive.

Just for fun, I decide to hint heavily to my mother. I did not get too specific, but I said I planned to call it a day pretty early in terms of retirement. It was interesting how she started to go on about post-retirement expenses, such as a sewer line breaking and causing great expense. Sure, I might have those expenses, but is it a good idea for me not to retire because my sewer line might break??

After we were off the phone, I was thinking about the conversation and realized she retired early if you look at it only in terms of years spent working. She started working outside of the home at an advanced age and worked FT around 22 years. If she'd started working for pay when she was 22, she would have been done at 44...aaaand she would have been retired early.

So, she did it.

[2527]

Sounds to me her comments were really about the stress of an under-financed retirement.  If that is the case, she has a point.

[matchewed]

I view it as the "OMG what if life happens to you" syndrome (or OMGWILHTY if you prefer). It ignores the resiliency, time, and resources available to the retiree. Sure there are somethings you probably won't be able to fix with those assets. And sure maybe you have to work again. But more than likely you won't. So why not?

If you have a budget for home repairs it shouldn't be a problem.

[ender]

I view it as the "OMG what if life happens to you" syndrome (or OMGWILHTY if you prefer). It ignores the resiliency, time, and resources available to the retiree. Sure there are somethings you probably won't be able to fix with those assets. And sure maybe you have to work again. But more than likely you won't. So why not?

Nope pretty sure once you retire you can't ever make a single dollar of income the rest of your life and if the market ever goes down any, you die immediately and don't collect your $200.

or so I heard?

[Daleth]

I view it as the "OMG what if life happens to you" syndrome (or OMGWILHTY if you prefer). It ignores the resiliency, time, and resources available to the retiree. Sure there are somethings you probably won't be able to fix with those assets. And sure maybe you have to work again. But more than likely you won't. So why not?

Nope pretty sure once you retire you can't ever make a single dollar of income the rest of your life and if the market ever goes down any, you die immediately and don't collect your $200.

or so I heard?

:)

*high five*

[icefr]

My mom's been planting ideas about retiring early in my head for a while when she figured out exactly how much I am saving. I think she interpreted 40 as early and 30-33 is quite possible. My dad figures I should take more risks on company stock because "What's the worst that could happen? You have to work a few more years? That's not that bad when you're 25 and the upsides are so good."

[Gin]

Technically your mom retired early BUT she was older when she retired.  She will not be living off of her retirement as long as you will be living off yours.  I think parents worry about their kids no matter the child's age and the unkown is scary.  I know I have second guessed myself about can I do this and what if something happen.  Maybe share the numbers with her and let her see yes it is possible. 

[bogart]

OK, but sewer pipes aside, if you're actually interested in using your mom's experience to get more information to plan your own, it could be worth getting more information.

First, as Gin says, working from 22 to 44 is not the same thing as working from 44 to 66 (e.g.), unless the 44-year old anticipates dying at, say, 74 versus 94 for the 66-year old. 

How is your mom funding her retirement?  Does she have a pension, or is she relying on a 401K or some other sort of personal resources?  Does a former employer provide her with access to health insurance (this is relevant regardless of whether or not she is 65+ and qualifies for Medicare, though it is less relevant if she is 65+.  But even if she is, what did she do about health insurance in the between years, and how many were there?)?  Does she collect social security, and if so, is it on her own record or a spouse's (or former spouse's)?  If so, how many years elapsed between when she retired and when she started collecting social security?

On which of the dimensions above are you "better off" than your mom?  On which are you "worse off?"  What have I forgotten to include?  How should that affect your planning?

Is is possible your mom is expecting or hoping you will provide her with assistance/support if she becomes infirm?  How should that affect your planning?

[oldtoyota]

Technically your mom retired early BUT she was older when she retired.  She will not be living off of her retirement as long as you will be living off yours.  I think parents worry about their kids no matter the child's age and the unkown is scary.  I know I have second guessed myself about can I do this and what if something happen.  Maybe share the numbers with her and let her see yes it is possible.

That is true. The difference in how long I live off of mine may not be as big as you think. =-)

[MrsPete]

Truthfully, I'm more worried about my girls' retirement than my own.  Sound foolish?  Thing is, my husband and I were able to buy our first house for only 71K, and we had some excellent years in the stock market early in our professional lives.  I am in a job with a pension, and I think we will see at least some return on our Social Security payments.  Certainly we worked hard, planned and saved . . . But we did have some breaks along the way. 

My girls can't really count on these positives.  We've taught them frugal ways, we're making it possible for them to finish a bachelors degree without debt, and after graduation we'll continue to give them as much advice and encouragement as they care to hear . . . But they're heading out into a more difficult world than we faced.  Also, they aren't out of school yet, so they aren't yet dug into their careers.  Perhaps when I see them working professionally, buying houses, saving, etc., perhaps them I'll feel differently. 

I doubt your mom was specifically concerned about sewer pipes, but her larger point is that unexpected expenses will always pop up.  For example, we've just had a rather large plumbing emergency in our house.  Right now my kitchen sink is unusable, and my husband is taking a break and contemplating his next move.  She is right to say that you need to have enough saved to cover unforeseen problems. 

And inflation.  I worry about that.   
 

[MrsPete]

One more thought . . . You say your mom didn't work until she was older.  That leads me to guess she was a stay at home mom, which likely means a working father in the picture.  But you don't mention a significant other , so I'm wondering if you're single.  Leads me to the question:  might she feel better prepared because she's part of a team? 

Obviously I'm making some big guesses here and could be dead wrong.

[Eric]

I doubt your mom was specifically concerned about sewer pipes, but her larger point is that unexpected expenses will always pop up.

I wonder if OT's mom, among others, think that while retiring early might be possible, the only way to do it is on a razor thin margin.  Since retiring early generally means living on low(er) expenses, I think it's easy to make the leap to the idea that if your expenses change drastically for something out of the ordinary, then you'll end up destitute.  After all, running out of money in old age is a real fear that keeps most people working far past FI.

[oldtoyota]

Truthfully, I'm more worried about my girls' retirement than my own.  Sound foolish?  Thing is, my husband and I were able to buy our first house for only 71K, and we had some excellent years in the stock market early in our professional lives.  I am in a job with a pension, and I think we will see at least some return on our Social Security payments.  Certainly we worked hard, planned and saved . . . But we did have some breaks along the way. 

What you say above--and what I've seen people post here about companies retrenching--leads me to think we're in for more frugal times.

Organizations are becoming more frugal. For instance, organizations have eliminated pensions or are no longer matching 401Ks or matching them at lower rates. Or, some don't give raises, etc. If the companies are going to be more frugal, then people who are smart with their money will want to become frugal (or more frugal).

In sum, I see our society slowly slide toward overall frugality. I think we're at the start of a trend. I don't have studies or articles to back this up. Everything I am saying is based on my admittedly limited point of view and observation of others.

[oldtoyota]

One more thought . . . You say your mom didn't work until she was older.  That leads me to guess she was a stay at home mom, which likely means a working father in the picture.  But you don't mention a significant other , so I'm wondering if you're single.  Leads me to the question:  might she feel better prepared because she's part of a team? 

Obviously I'm making some big guesses here and could be dead wrong.

You are right on part of it. My mother was a SAHM. My dad worked. I am married, which helps make RE more possible for me. I can go onto his insurance since he's okay with working 7-10 years longer than me. Of course, we'll see how Obamacare plays out too.

When I retire, I don't plan to play golf all day (just half the day haha). What I really want to do is start a small home-based business. I might change my mind, but that is the plan for now.

[oldtoyota]

How is your mom funding her retirement?  Does she have a pension, or is she relying on a 401K or some other sort of personal resources?  Does a former employer provide her with access to health insurance (this is relevant regardless of whether or not she is 65+ and qualifies for Medicare, though it is less relevant if she is 65+.  But even if she is, what did she do about health insurance in the between years, and how many were there?)?  Does she collect social security, and if so, is it on her own record or a spouse's (or former spouse's)?  If so, how many years elapsed between when she retired and when she started collecting social security?

Good questions.

My mother may think a bit like Mrs. Pete in that my mother may think I don't have it as good as she does. And my mother would be correct at least on some fronts. For instance, I won't have a pension. I don't know their details as they don't talk about them. Money talk is almost verboten in my family. Even if I did, I would not post them here. =-)

[bogart]

I don't know their details as they don't talk about them. Money talk is almost verboten in my family. Even if I did, I would not post them here. =-)

OK, but if you actually want to learn from your mom's experience, some details would be useful for you (not us) to know.  Some you can probably figure out on your own, e.g. if you know at what age your mom retired, you know how many years (if any) she was retired without being eligible to collect (any) Social Security.  But others might be worth actually (gasp!) asking her about.  For example if she's resisting the thought that you can retire early you could pick some question (not about sewer pipes) and ask her.  E.g. you could say, "Well, of course I'm vulnerable because I'm relying on self-managed retirement accounts, whereas you and dad are from a generation more likely to have had an employer pension.  Does either of you have that?  Do you think I could duplicate it by investing in an annuity?" 

It is possible your mother knows something useful that you could learn from, if you're willing to take the time to do so.

[oldtoyota]

I don't know their details as they don't talk about them. Money talk is almost verboten in my family. Even if I did, I would not post them here. =-)

OK, but if you actually want to learn from your mom's experience, some details would be useful for you (not us) to know.  Some you can probably figure out on your own, e.g. if you know at what age your mom retired, you know how many years (if any) she was retired without being eligible to collect (any) Social Security.  But others might be worth actually (gasp!) asking her about.  For example if she's resisting the thought that you can retire early you could pick some question (not about sewer pipes) and ask her.  E.g. you could say, "Well, of course I'm vulnerable because I'm relying on self-managed retirement accounts, whereas you and dad are from a generation more likely to have had an employer pension.  Does either of you have that?  Do you think I could duplicate it by investing in an annuity?" 

It is possible your mother knows something useful that you could learn from, if you're willing to take the time to do so.

Yes. I see where you are coming from with your "gasp!" comment. I presume that we have very different mothers. Maybe another person's mom would provide advice or counsel on investments. Mine would not. Every mom is different!

She tends to think the sky is falling, and she's not reliable when it comes to facts.

[bogart]

Haha -- oh, so, like talking to my dad?  Well, not the sky is falling part, actually, in his world everything is peachy.  Also he is shocked, shocked to discover -- well, anything he wants to be in denial about.  But the not reliable on facts bit, for sure.

Oh well ...

[happy]

She tends to think the sky is falling, and she's not reliable when it comes to facts.

I know a mother like that!

Seriously though, some folks just reflexly make negative comments without a lot of thought. If you are seeking her approval then you could try engaging her again and ask her for a serious response.  Of course some parents are just not going to get it, so you will need to work out how you best chart your own course.

Pretty sure my olds would be shocked if I said I was semi-retired...they just know I work part-time. I'm sure they would be disapproving of my plans to retire @60. I accept their lack of approval: they are not going to change. But its my life:). So I hang out with like-minded people here instead.  Not sure how I will handle it when I get to 60, but for the moment being economical with the truth is best for me.

[oldtoyota]

She tends to think the sky is falling, and she's not reliable when it comes to facts.

I know a mother like that!

Seriously though, some folks just reflexly make negative comments without a lot of thought. If you are seeking her approval then you could try engaging her again and ask her for a serious response.  Of course some parents are just not going to get it, so you will need to work out how you best chart your own course.

You have a good question. I am not looking for approval, thank goodness. I think that would be tiring and placing the responsibility of my happiness upon the thoughts of another, which I don't want to do!