My life in a Liberal hell hole.

[Greystache]

Some of my family lives in NW Iowa (Steve King's congressional district) and I live in Southern California. They sometimes ask me how I survive amidst all the taxes and regulations of the Peoples Republic of California. So I thought it would be a fun exercise to compare my tax situation to theirs. For the purpose of this exercise, we will use my current situation which is retired, living in a paid off house, with an income of $50k per year (AGI is $43K per year).
Let's start with income tax. Everyone knows CA income tax is high. The top marginal rate is 13%! But that is for people who have incomes above $1 million. What if you are a married couple with an AGI of $43K? Then the top marginal rate is 4.0%.  In Iowa the rate is 6.8% for that income. 
How about property taxes? CA is complicated. The rate is 1% of assessed value plus other assessments for local bonds. Typical tax rate for a new purchase can range form 1.1 to 1.6 %. But future tax increases are limited to no more that 2% a year. Thus people who have owned their homes for a long time pay a much lower tax rate.  The average effective property tax rate in CA is .81%. I pay just under $4K per year on house that Zillow tells me is worth around $700K (about a .6% rate). My Iowa relatives pay a simple 1.5% of assessed value. Granted, I could buy a similar house in Iowa for one third the cost, so the actual tax bill would come out about the same.
How about sales tax? No doubt about it, Iowa beats California hands down.  Iowa's  sales tax is 6%. California's is, you guessed it, complicated. The state rate is 6% but there are county and local taxes on top of that so it can vary from 7.5 to close to 10% depending where you are in CA.  My hometown is 9.5%.  On the bright side, sales tax does not apply to food and I really don't spend much on stuff.
There are other taxes like gas tax that are higher in CA but I don't think much about them because, outside of the annual out of state road trip, I don't drive very much.
There are other costs that vary between states. I pay very little for heating and cooling (yay solar!) while they have to heat all winter long and run the AC most of the summer. I pay more for insurance and they pay more for fresh produce and some consumer goods.
All in all, I think it cost me less to live in California than it would to live in Iowa. I know what some of you are probably thinking, that my situation is unique and does not apply to most people. No argument there. Also, my low tax rates are only possible because CA rates favor low income families at the expense of high income earners or that old home owners are being subsidized by new homeowners. Again no argument form me. I'm not even going to debate whether progressive tax rates are more or less fair than flat tax rates.
I don't know if there is a point to this exercise other than it's a good idea to always challenge conventional wisdom, especially if it is politically motivated.

[partdopy]

I'd imagine being retired with a paid off house and an income that falls below the HUD threshold for housing assistance isn't a good comparison to a family probably living on the median income in a non paid off house purchased much more recently.

Maybe do a comparison to the same income compared to the median in Iowa, with a paid off house that has been owned for a long time?  This is probably the most pointless post I've seen in months.

[big_slacker]

Also, my low tax rates are only possible because CA rates favor low income families at the expense of high income earners or that old home owners are being subsidized by new homeowners.

I don't know if there is a point to this exercise other than it's a good idea to always challenge conventional wisdom, especially if it is politically motivated.

I mean, you called it out already. You're benefiting from the higher tax rate imposed on higher earners and from prop 13 putting the property tax burden on newer homeowners. CA is still a socialist liberal hellhole, you're just one of the leaches. :D 

In case the smiley wasn't enough, I'm obviously joking. I'm from tahoe and there once you hit a certain income level you move to the NV side of the lake as soon as you possibly can. I get jealous when I see houses on the CA side $100k cheaper, but then I think about $25-30k additional taxes every single year and realize it's not a good deal at all. ;)

I think it is super important to not make life decisions based on generalized data, instead using your own individual case. It's obvious, but so many people miss this concept.

[dougules]

I'm guessing that you have a lot more earning potential in oh-so-capitalism-hating Southern California, too?  That needs to go into the comparison.  If you earn more after paying your high taxes and rent/mortgage, then you're still coming out ahead. 

[ysette9]

When I became a parent I discovered some of the hidden benefits of being a CA resident that I hadn’t appreciated before. It is easy to see tax rates. It isn’t as obvious that there are countering benefits. For example, we each got six weeks partial paid family bonding leave when each of our babies were born that added on to our leave from our employers. My job was protected during this time even though I had exhausted FMLA because California. Having that benefit and protection in a time of intense need and vulnerability is enormously meaningful to me. People who have normal pregnancies (i.e. not my preemies) get maternity leave starting four weeks before the due date. Our friends in other states have to keep working until labor starts, no matter how physically/mentally/emotionally exhausted they are because there is no leave, no coverage, no protection.

My former colleague has kids with autism (fairly severe). In his old southern state they were paying a fortune out of pocket for therapy. Once they moved to ÇA they got therapy and other support including babysitting for an occasional date night covered by the state.

[Cadman]

Heating can certainly drive up costs here in Iowa, but solar works exceptionally well, especially when temps drop below 25F and efficiency goes through the roof. For me, at least, production offsets any cooling costs in the summer.

I suspect general power rates, water/sewer rates and such are cheaper here. If you don't drive much, it may not affect you, but gas is less costly, and no annual inspections or smog checks and associated costs. And what about insurance?

Friends from out west are always surprised how much further their entertainment dollars go when visiting. Groceries may be a similar story.

[kpd905]

I think you have to give some more value to the ~$500k difference in home price you'd have if you moved to Iowa.  Say that $500k gets invested and gives you another $20k of income at a 4% withdrawal rate.  Then your numbers might be pretty similar in both locations.

[Curmudgeon]

OK, you covered the taxes aspect.  Now how about the 'regulations' aspect of the hellhole?

[Laserjet3051]

I think you have to give some more value to the ~$500k difference in home price you'd have if you moved to Iowa.  Say that $500k gets invested and gives you another $20k of income at a 4% withdrawal rate.  Then your numbers might be pretty similar in both locations.

THIS

Also would like to point out the obvious; that each regulation/law creates both a winner AND a loser. Clearly OP is one of the winners in CA's socialist experiment. Not all of us can say the same.

[dogboyslim]

...Our friends in other states have to keep working until labor starts, no matter how physically/mentally/emotionally exhausted they are because there is no leave, no coverage, no protection.

FMLA is not state specific.  Pregnancy induced disability is one cause, birth etc. is another.  My co-worker <in Iowa> was on bed-rest for 3 months prior to her birth, then had recovery time afterwards.  She filed for FMLA, and her job was protected, and she was able to leverage all her sick time and vacation pay during her leave, and all her benefits continued through leave.  Your comment is not factual.

Also, Iowa has a fairly large income offset before you start paying tax.

Also, this whole conversation belongs in a forum that allows discussing political matters, not General.

[SimpleCycle]

...Our friends in other states have to keep working until labor starts, no matter how physically/mentally/emotionally exhausted they are because there is no leave, no coverage, no protection.

FMLA is not state specific.  Pregnancy induced disability is one cause, birth etc. is another.  My co-worker <in Iowa> was on bed-rest for 3 months prior to her birth, then had recovery time afterwards.  She filed for FMLA, and her job was protected, and she was able to leverage all her sick time and vacation pay during her leave, and all her benefits continued through leave.  Your comment is not factual.

Also, Iowa has a fairly large income offset before you start paying tax.

Also, this whole conversation belongs in a forum that allows discussing political matters, not General.

FMLA is 12 weeks long.  In your example her job could have fired her after the 3 months of bedrest if she didn't come back to work the day she gave birth.  Plus only about 50% of workers are eligible for FMLA.

[ysette9]

Correct. FMLA is 12 weeks long for baby bonding and once you have used it up for the year you no longer have job protection. Because I was on reduced work schedule prior to giving birth my FMLA coverage ran out half-way through my maternity leave. My leave center through work was kind enough to inform me of my lack of job protection a good month AFTER I lost protection. As it turns out, I actually was protected under CA law but not under federal, but my leave center didn’t know leave policies from their assholes and didn’t tell me that at the time.

[jlcnuke]

Overall tax burden by state is easy to look up if you want to know what a "normal" person's taxes would be relative to other states. California comes in at #10 this year:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494/

[Laura Ingalls]

...Our friends in other states have to keep working until labor starts, no matter how physically/mentally/emotionally exhausted they are because there is no leave, no coverage, no protection.

FMLA is not state specific.  Pregnancy induced disability is one cause, birth etc. is another.  My co-worker <in Iowa> was on bed-rest for 3 months prior to her birth, then had recovery time afterwards.  She filed for FMLA, and her job was protected, and she was able to leverage all her sick time and vacation pay during her leave, and all her benefits continued through leave.  Your comment is not factual.

Also, Iowa has a fairly large income offset before you start paying tax.[/b]

Also, this whole conversation belongs in a forum that allows discussing political matters, not General.

I’m disagreeing with you on two points.  CA had more generous FMLA as state law.  If Iowa’s income offsets are so large why have I had zero federal tax liability and a mid four figure Iowa tax liability  the past three years.  That seems regressive to me.

[PiobStache]

This is one of those threads where each side is going to be able to "prove" whatever it wants to.

[Greystache]

Complex tax laws benefit some at the expense of others. During my peak earning years, I paid very high state income tax and when I first bought my house, I paid 1.5 % property tax.  Now that I am retired, and my AGI is lower, and I have lived in the same house for 25 years, those same tax laws favor me. I know some people who say that they plan to leave CA as soon as they retire because of high taxes. My point is, just because you paid through the nose when you were working, it might not be that way when you retire. Don't rely on some list of  expensive places to retire or belief that red states always have lower tax rates. Everyone's situation is different and retirement can make a huge difference in your tax situation.

[ysette9]

This is one of those threads where each side is going to be able to "prove" whatever it wants to.

Right. My point is not to argue whether one state is more or less expensive. My point was merely that paying more can get you more, and sometimes those ways are more subtle. As an example, parental leave laws and benefits that vary state to state. ÇA has the most generous state parental leave benefits in the US. My coworkers leaving CA for a lower cost of living made sure to stay here for the parental leave benefits before doing so. That is an observation. I make no value judgement on whether the benefits are worth the cost or how that stacks up with other states, etc. etc.

[Laura Ingalls]

Greystache

Iowa also has some areas with additional sales tax.  My county is seven

[big_slacker]

This is one of those threads where each side is going to be able to "prove" whatever it wants to.

Right. My point is not to argue whether one state is more or less expensive. My point was merely that paying more can get you more, and sometimes those ways are more subtle. As an example, parental leave laws and benefits that vary state to state. ÇA has the most generous state parental leave benefits in the US. My coworkers leaving CA for a lower cost of living made sure to stay here for the parental leave benefits before doing so. That is an observation. I make no value judgement on whether the benefits are worth the cost or how that stacks up with other states, etc. etc.

It's actually very smart to jump states or even countries during different periods of your life to maximize income, opportunity, laws, etc. I started thinking this way fairly early growing up in a town right on the border with another state, and then in my adult life moving to another town that spanned two states. I've lived in 4 states so far and have the option of the entire EU if that works to our favor later in life. ;)

[marty998]

I think you have to give some more value to the ~$500k difference in home price you'd have if you moved to Iowa.  Say that $500k gets invested and gives you another $20k of income at a 4% withdrawal rate.  Then your numbers might be pretty similar in both locations.

THIS

Also would like to point out the obvious; that each regulation/law creates both a winner AND a loser. Clearly OP is one of the winners in CA's socialist experiment. Not all of us can say the same.

This is a bit over the top don't you think? Are you really comparing CA to the old soviet states?

[dude]

People pay a premium to live in California because it's worth it.

[ysette9]

People pay a premium to live in California because it's worth it.

That certainly Is true in my personal situation . It would be very hard/expensive to reproduce what we have here elsewhere, though I am keeping an open mind (I’ve got my eye on the UK).

[CSuzette]

I was recently offered a job in Pasadena. No way!

[patchyfacialhair]

People pay a premium to live in California because it's worth it.

Meh. I grew up in CA. It's only worth it if you make a ton of money or inherited a house or 100% of your family is there.

The main draw is the weather. Sure, that's a positive, but in Colorado (where I live now), I get just as much sunshine, much cleaner air, and far less traffic (we don't live in Denver), and our dream home was in reach as a first-house purchase.

I'll leave the traffic and smog in CA where it belongs. Most of my family has moved away from CA because you can get a better lifestyle (whatever that means) at a fraction of the cost.

[ysette9]

People pay a premium to live in California because it's worth it.

Meh. I grew up in CA. It's only worth it if you make a ton of money or inherited a house or 100% of your family is there.

The main draw is the weather. Sure, that's a positive, but in Colorado (where I live now), I get just as much sunshine, much cleaner air, and far less traffic (we don't live in Denver), and our dream home was in reach as a first-house purchase.

I'll leave the traffic and smog in CA where it belongs. Most of my family has moved away from CA because you can get a better lifestyle (whatever that means) at a fraction of the cost.

I have a number of former coworkers going to the Denver area for the same reasons you mention. It gets down to how personal it is for all of us. I’m a wimp so I found the CO winters to be too cold. There is a lot to offer in that area though.
For us personally CA offers my kids an environment where being multilingual is normal, finding French-speaking childcare and Chinese immersion public school is a reasonable request, where being mixed race is average and not something that gets a second look or a comment.

[Laserjet3051]

I think you have to give some more value to the ~$500k difference in home price you'd have if you moved to Iowa.  Say that $500k gets invested and gives you another $20k of income at a 4% withdrawal rate.  Then your numbers might be pretty similar in both locations.

THIS

Also would like to point out the obvious; that each regulation/law creates both a winner AND a loser. Clearly OP is one of the winners in CA's socialist experiment. Not all of us can say the same.

This is a bit over the top don't you think? Are you really comparing CA to the old soviet states?

No, I dont think its over the top. Of course, socialism/capitalism is not an absolute, but a spectrum. CA is certainly on that spectrum. I never compared it to the old soviet states, either explicitly, or implicitly. Socialism and communism are not one and the same. How long have you lived here in CA and how intimately are you personally familiar with it's policies?

[ysette9]

I think you have to give some more value to the ~$500k difference in home price you'd have if you moved to Iowa.  Say that $500k gets invested and gives you another $20k of income at a 4% withdrawal rate.  Then your numbers might be pretty similar in both locations.

THIS

Also would like to point out the obvious; that each regulation/law creates both a winner AND a loser. Clearly OP is one of the winners in CA's socialist experiment. Not all of us can say the same.

This is a bit over the top don't you think? Are you really comparing CA to the old soviet states?

No, I dont think its over the top. Of course, socialism/capitalism is not an absolute, but a spectrum. CA is certainly on that spectrum. I never compared it to the old soviet states, either explicitly, or implicitly. Socialism and communism are not one and the same. How long have you lived here in CA and how intimately are you personally familiar with it's policies?

CA isn’t even as far left as your average Northern European country. The center of gravity in the US is just so far to the right of average developed countries that it makes ÇA seem radical.

[PiobStache]

This is one of those threads where each side is going to be able to "prove" whatever it wants to.

Right. My point is not to argue whether one state is more or less expensive. My point was merely that paying more can get you more, and sometimes those ways are more subtle. As an example, parental leave laws and benefits that vary state to state. ÇA has the most generous state parental leave benefits in the US. My coworkers leaving CA for a lower cost of living made sure to stay here for the parental leave benefits before doing so. That is an observation. I make no value judgement on whether the benefits are worth the cost or how that stacks up with other states, etc. etc.

My point was that people are going to employ all kinds of good stuff like cherry picking data, cognitive bias, etc. to get to the conclusion they wanted to get to in the first place.

[stoaX]

I think it is super important to not make life decisions based on generalized data, instead using your own individual case. It's obvious, but so many people miss this concept.

Amen!

And California is huge!  There's considerable differences in climate, housing costs, local taxes, heating and cooling costs, medical costs, and a thousand other things depending upon where in CA you live.

[EnjoyIt]

I think you have to give some more value to the ~$500k difference in home price you'd have if you moved to Iowa.  Say that $500k gets invested and gives you another $20k of income at a 4% withdrawal rate.  Then your numbers might be pretty similar in both locations.

THIS

Also would like to point out the obvious; that each regulation/law creates both a winner AND a loser. Clearly OP is one of the winners in CA's socialist experiment. Not all of us can say the same.

This is a bit over the top don't you think? Are you really comparing CA to the old soviet states?

No, I dont think its over the top. Of course, socialism/capitalism is not an absolute, but a spectrum. CA is certainly on that spectrum. I never compared it to the old soviet states, either explicitly, or implicitly. Socialism and communism are not one and the same. How long have you lived here in CA and how intimately are you personally familiar with it's policies?

CA isn’t even as far left as your average Northern European country. The center of gravity in the US is just so far to the right of average developed countries that it makes ÇA seem radical.

Just because it is to the right of some European countries does not make it any less socialist than it currently is.  I know plenty of people who love CA and would not live anywhere else willing to pay the high cost of living and higher taxes.  I also know plenty of people who became sick of the high taxes and high cost of living and went elsewhere. I can say the same for NY, NJ and CT. 

We used to live in a high tax, high cost of living, more socialist leaning state and left for a presumed better life.  It has worked better than hoped for us but may not be the best answer for everyone else.

One of the nice things about the US is that you can choose where you live.  You can have legalized marijuana, more social programs like in CA, or you can have open carry gun laws like AZ, or no state tax with inexpensive homes like TX, or legalized marijuana and unrestricted gun laws like ME.  Then you add in weather preferences, proximity to family, woodlands or major airports and people get to make the decision that they feel fits their needs.  Isn't America grand?

[Cranky]

California is big enough that large chunks of it aren’t actually liberal at all. LOL It also has a surprisingly high poverty rate.

I’m way too cheap to live in California, especially once I concluded that I’d live my daily life pretty much the same no matter where I am.

[RetiredAt63]

, but gas is less costly, and no annual inspections or smog checks and associated costs.

To me these would be negatives - all contribute to poor air quality and increased carbon (CO, CO₂, particulate matter) in the air.

[Camarillo Brillo]

, but gas is less costly, and no annual inspections or smog checks and associated costs.

To me these would be negatives - all contribute to poor air quality and increased carbon (CO, CO₂, particulate matter) in the air.

Have you ever been to Iowa?  I have, and I can assure you there is no problem with their air quality.  I also lived in CA for 19 years.  There is a notable difference. 

Perhaps it's because there are 5 times more residents per square mile in CA than in IA.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I prefer a less intrusive government that doesn't put unnecessary, costly, regulations in place just for the sake of doing so.

[KCM5]

, but gas is less costly, and no annual inspections or smog checks and associated costs.

To me these would be negatives - all contribute to poor air quality and increased carbon (CO, CO₂, particulate matter) in the air.

Have you ever been to Iowa?  I have, and I can assure you there is no problem with their air quality.  I also lived in CA for 19 years.  There is a notable difference. 

Perhaps it's because there are 5 times more residents per square mile in CA than in IA.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I prefer a less intrusive government that doesn't put unnecessary, costly, regulations in place just for the sake of doing so.

CA has the strict air quality regulations that they do because they have poor air quality (a combo of geography, climate, and emissions). Iowa has none of those problems so follows federal standards and does no more. Neither state is wrong in the way they regulate most air pollutants. Now, we could talk about greenhouse gasses, but then the picture gets a lot more complicated (in both states)

[Camarillo Brillo]

, but gas is less costly, and no annual inspections or smog checks and associated costs.

To me these would be negatives - all contribute to poor air quality and increased carbon (CO, CO₂, particulate matter) in the air.

Have you ever been to Iowa?  I have, and I can assure you there is no problem with their air quality.  I also lived in CA for 19 years.  There is a notable difference. 

Perhaps it's because there are 5 times more residents per square mile in CA than in IA.  Maybe I'm in the minority, but I prefer a less intrusive government that doesn't put unnecessary, costly, regulations in place just for the sake of doing so.

CA has the strict air quality regulations that they do because they have poor air quality (a combo of geography, climate, and emissions). Iowa has none of those problems so follows federal standards and does no more. Neither state is wrong in the way they regulate most air pollutants. Now, we could talk about greenhouse gasses, but then the picture gets a lot more complicated (in both states)

We're not disagreeing.  I'm just pointing out that simply because Iowa doesn't need to impose the same air regs that CA does, that that isn't necessarily a negative.  RetiredAt63 seemed to be implying that simply because gas prices in IA were lower than prices in CA, and because IA doesn't need to have annual smog inspections, that that automatically meant air quality was worse in IA.

[wbranch]

My in-laws and a bunch of my wife's relatives live in NW IA. The whole area reeks of manure year round, poor water quality due to agricultural runoff, can't mow your lawn on a Sunday without religious extremists getting PO'd at you, huge amounts of corporate welfare, higher than average rates of health issues due to poor lifestyles. NW IA is its own special kind of hellhole.

[Scandium]

I think you have to give some more value to the ~$500k difference in home price you'd have if you moved to Iowa.  Say that $500k gets invested and gives you another $20k of income at a 4% withdrawal rate.  Then your numbers might be pretty similar in both locations.

THIS

Also would like to point out the obvious; that each regulation/law creates both a winner AND a loser. Clearly OP is one of the winners in CA's socialist experiment. Not all of us can say the same.

This is a bit over the top don't you think? Are you really comparing CA to the old soviet states?

People who don't know what socialism is applying it to any form of taxation/regulation? wow, a shock, say it aint so! *rolleyes*

"toxic waste dumping is illegal? Socialism!"
"giving food to starving children? Socialism!"
"government run police and military? Socialism! oh, wait, uhm...

[dude]

People pay a premium to live in California because it's worth it.

Meh. I grew up in CA. It's only worth it if you make a ton of money or inherited a house or 100% of your family is there.

The main draw is the weather. Sure, that's a positive, but in Colorado (where I live now), I get just as much sunshine, much cleaner air, and far less traffic (we don't live in Denver), and our dream home was in reach as a first-house purchase.

I'll leave the traffic and smog in CA where it belongs. Most of my family has moved away from CA because you can get a better lifestyle (whatever that means) at a fraction of the cost.

I hear the surf is quite a bit better in California . . .

[Cadman]

, but gas is less costly, and no annual inspections or smog checks and associated costs.

To me these would be negatives - all contribute to poor air quality and increased carbon (CO, CO₂, particulate matter) in the air.

If you think it's a negative, you haven't been paying attention. Those smog checks were put in place during a time pre-EFI, pre-PCV, pre-electronic ignition, when it was easy to become a gross polluter by missing a tune-up or two. With today's closed-loop vehicles, it's simply a money grab, especially since the same shops performing the tests are the ones getting paid for the fix. If CA were serious, they'd adopt a model similar to Germany.

Also, don't even try to put a newer, cleaner burning engine in your classic. That's overseen by CARB and the paperwork nightmare that entails makes it especially prohibitive.

[rob in cal]

  I do believe that California is actually the poverty leader when cost of living is factored in.  I wonder if Prop 13 will be revisited at some time. In our case we bought at just the right time, 1998. If we were younger now, just starting out, I don't know if we would stay in the state.  Don't know how my kids are going to buy a house at current values, but of course a correction may be  right around the corner.

[bacchi]

California is a socialist nightmare. Besides Apple, Google, HP, Tesla, Cisco, VMware, Airbnb, and Uber, and a bunch of other companies whose products you use monthly if not weekly, what else has come out of California? Nothing but high taxes and a nanny state mentality.

[SnackDog]

I still find California over-populated and with a terrible housing shortage which has driven prices too the moon.  If income taxes could be further increased to drive more people to Iowa, reduce freeway congestion and lower home prices, I would not object.

[ysette9]

California is a socialist nightmare. Besides Apple, Google, HP, Tesla, Cisco, VMware, Airbnb, and Uber, and a bunch of other companies whose products you use monthly if not weekly, what else has come out of California? Nothing but high taxes and a nanny state mentality.

Avocados!!

[bacchi]

California is a socialist nightmare. Besides Apple, Google, HP, Tesla, Cisco, VMware, Airbnb, and Uber, and a bunch of other companies whose products you use monthly if not weekly, what else has come out of California? Nothing but high taxes and a nanny state mentality.

Avocados!!

True. But besides that, and the companies above, and Intuit, Nvidia, Qualcomm (snap dragon), and Intel, what else has come out of California? Nothing.

[dude]

California is a socialist nightmare. Besides Apple, Google, HP, Tesla, Cisco, VMware, Airbnb, and Uber, and a bunch of other companies whose products you use monthly if not weekly, what else has come out of California? Nothing but high taxes and a nanny state mentality.

Avocados!!

True. But besides that, and the companies above, and Intuit, Nvidia, Qualcomm (snap dragon), and Intel, what else has come out of California? Nothing.

Nothing except world-class skiing, climbing and mountaineering. And almonds! And movies, lots of movies. Other than that though, nothing.

[PiobStache]

Wine.

[ixtap]

Hobies,. But other than that and what is listed above and some more fruits and nuts and cheese, nothing at all.

[Cranky]

You know where the air quality is awful? Denver. Iowa, not so much.

[patchyfacialhair]

People pay a premium to live in California because it's worth it.

Meh. I grew up in CA. It's only worth it if you make a ton of money or inherited a house or 100% of your family is there.

The main draw is the weather. Sure, that's a positive, but in Colorado (where I live now), I get just as much sunshine, much cleaner air, and far less traffic (we don't live in Denver), and our dream home was in reach as a first-house purchase.

I'll leave the traffic and smog in CA where it belongs. Most of my family has moved away from CA because you can get a better lifestyle (whatever that means) at a fraction of the cost.

I hear the surf is quite a bit better in California . . .

We get some exciting (tubular? righteous? wicked?) flash flooding in the mountains in CO, does that count? lol

[marty998]

California is a socialist nightmare. Besides Apple, Google, HP, Tesla, Cisco, VMware, Airbnb, and Uber, and a bunch of other companies whose products you use monthly if not weekly, what else has come out of California? Nothing but high taxes and a nanny state mentality.

Avocados!!

True. But besides that, and the companies above, and Intuit, Nvidia, Qualcomm (snap dragon), and Intel, what else has come out of California? Nothing.

Nothing except world-class skiing, climbing and mountaineering. And almonds! And movies, lots of movies. Other than that though, nothing.

Hehehe what else have the Romans Californians not done for you all?