Author Topic: My aging parents are in a financial crisis  (Read 8880 times)

lso29

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My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« on: March 07, 2017, 12:42:59 PM »
Hi everyone!  I am new to this site and came here looking for reassurance.  My husband and I are in our mid 30's with 2 young children.  He works full time, since having kids I work part time.  We've had to make some sacrifices to make that happen, but all in all, we are doing okay.  My parents are in their early 70's.  My mom had a stroke in 2003 and can no longer work in her position as an executive.  She still does some temp work - she loves to work, but it is also a financial necessity for them.  My (step)dad retired years ago after being fired from multiple jobs due to severe bi-polar disorder.
 
Over the years my parents have always lived beyond their means (think getting your hair done twice per week, weekly manicures, new cars every three years, and shopping sprees every weekend).  My mom earned a nice 6 figure salary throughout the 90's and early 2000's.  I am an only child, and my grandma lived with us and took care of me.  Despite this, my parents were always short on money and telling me how "poor" we were.
In the late 1980's my parents filed bankruptcy.  They filed again in 2013.  They have refinanced their home so many times that they now owe close to $400,000 on a house that they purchased for $129K in 1991.  They are constantly buying new cars despite the fact that their poor credit makes them eligible for only the worst interest rates.  They survive (barely) on more than most retirees - my mom has 2 pensions, my dad has a pension, and they both get social security.

My goal to truly forgive my parents for a difficult childhood filled with physical and emotional abuse is a work in progress, but I have made great strides.  I want the best for my parents and I really worry about their future.  Selfishly, I am worried that they will drag me down when the bottom falls out on this situation.
 
Today the call I have been dreading finally came - they need money to help pay off a loan.  I said no.  Several years ago I made the mistake of giving my parents money.  We had taken them out to lunch, and given them the money to help since we knew things had gotten tough for them.  My dad immediately announced that they were going to Best Buy to buy a new computer, printer, etc and thanked us for the cash.  Needless to say, I know any money that we give them will only be squandered away.  I have suggested they walk away from the house but they won't.

What I worry about most is long term care.  Sadly, I have gathered that despite my parent's financial history that they will never have an issue getting a loan.  They were literally able to go out and get a loan for 2 new cars just months after filling bankruptcy for a second time.  So I assume that for the time being they will overspend and periodically file bankruptcy.  But my mom's health is a fine balance - she's still very unstable and really doesn't take care of herself.  I worry about her falling and breaking her hip. I worry that some day she may find herself needing to go into a nursing home and there will be no way to afford it.  I researched and see that the house is usually used as a resource but they literally have no equity.  And I know they've tapped their 401K's and I suspect there isn't much left.  My mom tried to apply for long term care but she was not eligible because of her stroke.

I am hoping one of you has been here before or has experience with these issues.  I would love to hear my research is wrong and that everything will okay....Thank you for any help you can provide.

MayDay

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 01:25:28 PM »
They will go into a Medicaid nursing home. The end.

It really is that simple. If they become ill enough to qualify for a nursing home, they will not be able to self pay so they (or you) will find one that takes Medicaid. They can range from nice to awful.  If one of them needs nursing care and the other doesn't, there are specific rules for how income is handled. They can't take the house form the one living at home. They do take the pension and maybe some portion of the SS of the sick spouse. But I'm just trying to recall that from memory, so don't trust me on the specifics.

The worst case scenario isn't them needing nursing care, which is fully covered. It's them needing some help but not full nursing home. Medicaid doesn't pay for assisted living and as far as I know they don't typically pay for a home health worker to come by daily for help.

lso29

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 01:34:14 PM »
@MayDay - thank you so much for your response.  I did not know this - I thought a medicaid payment was only an option for people who had low enough income  to qualify for it before the nursing home issue came up.  Hopefully it will never become an issue for them but thank you again.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 01:36:01 PM by lso29 »

golden1

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 01:38:47 PM »
Quote
They will go into a Medicaid nursing home. The end.

This is where my mom is headed, and I have made peace with it.  I will find the best I can, but otherwise there is not much else to do.

I feel your pain.  My mom also was a high functioning professional, but in her case, she was an alcoholic and finally began to unravel in her early 60s when she became unemployable.  She is now on disability for various mental health issues and has multiple health problems.  I help with small bills when I can, but like you, I got burned loaning her and my ex-stepfather money years ago that got frittered away, so I am done doing that.  She can live independently for now, but it won't be long before she won't be able to. 

accolay

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 01:38:55 PM »
They will go into a Medicaid nursing home. The end.
It's sad and I feel for you, but they've made their own way to that eventual outcome. It's hard to watch people you care about make horrible decisions, but there is nothing for you to do. If they still have the mental capacity to be their own decision makers, then you'll probably have to watch them crash and burn before you could be allowed to help with logical decisions, if you still want to at that point. Then the decision is if you want to become their power of attorney or legal guardian etc.

Just make sure you take care of yourself first financially, physically, mentally and emotionally before you help them. Or else they could end up dragging you down too.

former player

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 01:51:37 PM »
Between them, your mother and step-father have three pensions, two social security payments and income from temping.  The do not have a "money in" problem, they have a "money out" problem.  Giving them money will not help as you are just pouring water into a bucket with a hole in it.

Your financial and emotional priorities should be with yourself, your spouse and your children, as you already know.  You are lucky that your mother and step-father live in a rich society that can afford to provide those pensions and social security payments.  You could prepare yourself for the future by checking out what other resources might be available in your area to help then either practically or financially if they come to the state of not being able to keep the house or look after themselves, so you can pass that information on to them.

It's hard.  Best of luck.

VoteCthulu

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 04:23:30 PM »
Give them whatever emotional and physical support you feel you can, and instead giving them money for financial support perhaps offer to help look at their finances or help them find a financial coach they'll listen to.

If they're not ready to listen to anyone yet, hopefully they will find a rock bottom that changes their mind before you're as devastated (financially, emotionally, or both) as they are.

lso29

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 05:02:00 PM »
Thank you all so much.  It seems that this is an issue facing many children of aging parents and is such a challenging issue.  The "cash out" statement really struck me - I could not have said it better myself but ironically I never really sat down and thought about it that way. 

Looking at this issue from the outside, it frustrates me that anyone in my parents situation is able to get a loan.  They are charged high interest rates because of their bad credit and quite frankly because it is just a given that they will default on the loan.  In reality, anyone in their situation who shows up looking for a loan should be told "no." 

Erica

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2017, 05:18:31 PM »
I am proud of you for not giving them money.

They seem a bit methodical. And very vain.

You sure turned out different. your posts are very down to earth.

The only thing I can add is if Mom can work p/t she should get a job with an accident policy

You see they are going to, and already do, have health issues. Mental and physical to some degree.


Many companies offer accident policies/ and or critical illness. Our is $22 a mo. for both my husband and I

It comes with automatic $25k of life insurance plus whatever "accident" happens of death benefit. And pays

a set price for so many things which happen such as hospitalization, blood tests, broken limbs, etc...

Critical illness costs a bit more.

See if your Mom has this avaialble and get her to have $$ taken out of her paycheck if needed

You are not obligated to want "the best" for them.

People sew what they reap sometimes

Just to assist in providing for their basic needs via hooking them up to resources

To prepare, I'd start learning  the rules for the County IHSS program. Eligibility and spend down provisions

Maybe to protect resources some-how. Their spending now may dictate their future

Sounds as if they were abusive to you in your childhood, please expect history to repeat itself.

Leopards don't generally change their spots.

Again, you sound like a wonderful person despite it. Be proud :) And good luck!

« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 05:32:38 PM by Erica »

lso29

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 05:35:40 PM »
Thank you Erica - your post brought tears to my eyes.  There was a lot of good advice in there - I will look into all those ideas.  I was fortunate to have my grandma and also an amazing family friend who let me live with her every summer.  For anyone reading this, never doubt the ability you have to affect a child's life for the better.  It was my time with them that got me through and turned me into the woman I am today.  Being loved and seeing "normal" people made me realize there was a light at the end of the tunnel.

Have a great night!

ltt

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 06:57:55 PM »
You cannot change your parents; you can only change your reaction to them.  If, and this is only an if, you did decide to give them money (and I have no idea how much you are talking about), I would give it with the expectation that you would never see the money again and that you pay off the lender directly--not let it pass through your parents' hand. 

Best of luck to you.

PaulMaxime

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 08:29:41 PM »
I had this sort of situation with my parents. I offered that I would help them financially but only if they opened all their books to me and allowed me to put them on a strict budget. They would not go for it. My Father figured out a way to make things work on his own, though when he finally passed he had run up a pretty good sized amount of credit card debt. I called all the companies and told them they weren't getting a dime because his estate had no money in it.

The strange thing was, like your parents, he had enough to live on if he would have just been disciplined and managed his spending. He just liked buying things too much and I think at the end his income pretty much covered his bills and his minimum payments on his credit cards, which means he was just digging a bigger hole every month.

One thing to think about is bankruptcy. It's unpleasant but their pensions and Social Security might be judgement proof. I wouldn't feel too bad about stiffing their creditors - they should know better than to loan so much to people with limited resources and so much debt. Those guys are snakes.

bogart

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 08:54:16 PM »
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.  You did the right thing by saying no.

A bit more info. about Medicaid -- it is a joint federal/state plan, and the rules (who qualifies for what when) vary somewhat state-to-state, with the states you'd expect (northeast, west coast, more affluent) having more generous coverage and ditto on low coverage (south, less affluent).  But basically, if either your parents needs LTC, it seems likely they'd qualify -- my dad relied on it for years, and basically (a) he had to spend down his assets to ~$2K; (b) he had to apply all his monthly income to his nursing home bill, except for $25, which he got to keep for "incidental expenses;" oh, but (c) he was also allowed to pay his monthly health insurance premiums (Medicare, which is the policy for seniors, and that one's standardized nationwide, plus Medigap, which -- ditto, and helps cover what Medicare doesn't.  Of course this -- his being allowed to do so -- was only because that saved the state money relative to having Medicaid cover all those costs, too).  Note that (b) didn't go far (obviously), since there was plenty the nursing home bill didn't provide -- haircuts, clothes, phone service, and BTW, a nursing home that accepts Medicaid may or may not have a laundry service, but will lose/mixup residents' clothes...).  But, he had a roof over his head, meals, and medical care (+ assisted living). 

The complication in your parents' may be that in the case of a married couple, if one requires Medicaid, what the other is allowed to keep is limited -- varies significantly by state.  And I know you've said they effectively don't have anything, but depending on whose name the income that comes in, is, a lot of that income might be required to go straight to the nursing home, leaving the other parent with -- not much.  Not much you can do about that, but it's something to be aware of as a potential problem down the road, I'm afraid. 

marion10

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 09:29:56 PM »
Usually om Medicaid the spouse that is not in care is allowed to keep living in the family home. Once that spouse dies, the state may seeks to recover some assets from the sale of the house.

Villanelle

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 11:10:50 PM »
I fear a similar situation awaits Husband and me, though it sounds like the relationships are more healthy.  My plan is to offer lots of assistance, but that assistance will not come in the form of cash.  It will be helping them apply for programs, researching entitlements for which they might qualify, offering to find the best realtor possible and to spend a weekend getting the house ready for sale (if we live locally, which we may never do), helping them find a cheap reliable car to trade for a more expensive vehicle, helping them find a cheap but safe apartment, etc.

If they balk at those things, that will show me that they really aren't interested in fixing their situation, and that adding more cash to the equation will be throwing good money after bad.  If they do all these things, then the situation should be more or less resolved.  And if it isn't, their willingness to embrace these changes will make me a lot more included to be generous with actual money, though still in modest amounts.  IOW, if they've moved in to that studio apartment and still can't make ends meet, picking up the electric bill seems reasonable.  If they still have cable and live in a 2600sqft house, they have the means to pay their own electric bill and just not the will. 

Of course, that's easier for me to say than for husband, due to the relationships. 

Dicey

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2017, 01:31:40 AM »
Lots of good advice here, Iso29. I am sorry for the situation they are trying to put you in yet again, but you must be strong and resist the pull of their quicksand. As they say in the airline business, "Put your oxygen mask on first". To which I would add "and keep it there." Do not be sucked in by their apparent neediness/crisis/whatever. They are still autonomous adults, and they alone are responsible for their choices.

kite

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2017, 05:58:39 AM »
Thank you all so much.  It seems that this is an issue facing many children of aging parents and is such a challenging issue.  The "cash out" statement really struck me - I could not have said it better myself but ironically I never really sat down and thought about it that way. 

Looking at this issue from the outside, it frustrates me that anyone in my parents situation is able to get a loan.  They are charged high interest rates because of their bad credit and quite frankly because it is just a given that they will default on the loan.  In reality, anyone in their situation who shows up looking for a loan should be told "no."

For starters, 3 pensions + 2 SS checks isn't a crisis, no matter how desperate they make it out to be. 

The other point, that folks in their situation should be told "no" is interesting.  I'm not sure I agree.  The alternative to high interest loans for high risk borrowers isn't austerity and self discipline, it's loan sharks.  Those are worse.  The rates they are paying are exactly right given their risk of default.  Their lender's problem is their lender's problem.  Don't make it yours. 

Guesl982374

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 07:50:58 AM »
Others have provided some solid advice. While I don't think it will ever come to this for my personal situation, we are aligned that if an aging parent needs support we would offer to keep them from being homeless (they can live with us under the same roof, we will NOT be paying for a completely second household), keep them feed, and (as others have said) help them get access to whatever programs they are entitled. If they have SS & pension income, they will be required to contribute to the household. No cash gifts.

fuzzy math

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2017, 08:11:47 AM »
Your parents are not dumb people. They managed to keep employment long enough to earn pensions.

They are likely manipulators and self centered enough to believe that the things they are getting (cars) are because they deserve them. You will never be able to tell them otherwise.

My mom has been "1 step away" from financial ruin for about 10 years now. She filed for bankruptcy in 2011, and turned around to get 2 cars since then, and some credit cards. Any discussion or offer of help to budget never turned out well. So now she "has to work til I die" yet has acrylic nails and cats that cost her $600 a month. She once told me things were the only thing that made her feel secure. She was poor as a kid, and didn't like looking poor. So her whole life has been trying to overcome it by owning status items, which ironically has only made her poor.

Deep breaths. Your journey is your own. Their journey is their own. There is no amount of anything that will change their course at this point. If they need nursing homes, their pensions and SS will fund it. It may even be enough to cover something nicer, once they are feeble enough to have to relinquish control of it and the inevitable wasteful spending they've chosen.

ltt

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2017, 08:26:47 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.  You did the right thing by saying no.

A bit more info. about Medicaid -- it is a joint federal/state plan, and the rules (who qualifies for what when) vary somewhat state-to-state, with the states you'd expect (northeast, west coast, more affluent) having more generous coverage and ditto on low coverage (south, less affluent).  But basically, if either your parents needs LTC, it seems likely they'd qualify -- my dad relied on it for years, and basically (a) he had to spend down his assets to ~$2K; (b) he had to apply all his monthly income to his nursing home bill, except for $25, which he got to keep for "incidental expenses;" oh, but (c) he was also allowed to pay his monthly health insurance premiums (Medicare, which is the policy for seniors, and that one's standardized nationwide, plus Medigap, which -- ditto, and helps cover what Medicare doesn't.  Of course this -- his being allowed to do so -- was only because that saved the state money relative to having Medicaid cover all those costs, too).  Note that (b) didn't go far (obviously), since there was plenty the nursing home bill didn't provide -- haircuts, clothes, phone service, and BTW, a nursing home that accepts Medicaid may or may not have a laundry service, but will lose/mixup residents' clothes...).  But, he had a roof over his head, meals, and medical care (+ assisted living). 

The complication in your parents' may be that in the case of a married couple, if one requires Medicaid, what the other is allowed to keep is limited -- varies significantly by state.  And I know you've said they effectively don't have anything, but depending on whose name the income that comes in, is, a lot of that income might be required to go straight to the nursing home, leaving the other parent with -- not much.  Not much you can do about that, but it's something to be aware of as a potential problem down the road, I'm afraid.

I just thought of something when I read this post.  Since the OP's mom had a stroke, I would assume that she  is disabled.?  Does the OP live in a state with ENABLE accounts?  This allows people to keep more money in a savings account without losing their benefits.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2017, 08:45:51 AM »
Yikes, sounds like they have made their bed.

With 3 pensions and 2 SS streams they will be ok in the long run.

The real question is, how much of that burden do you want to take on mentally and emotionally?

BTDretire

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2017, 09:06:57 AM »
Do you know what their total income is with 3 pensions and 2 SS streams?
  I suspect their house payment is well over $2000 with taxes and insurance,
Do you know the number?

fishnfool

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2017, 10:38:50 AM »
Some counties have in home support and give you so many hours per month to have a helper come to your home. Sometimes it includes nursing care. It might be worth looking into if and when the time comes. My mom was getting a person for 60 hours a month.

You're smart for not enabling their bad financial decisions by giving them more money.

Good luck!

RedmondStash

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2017, 12:30:06 PM »
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, and with the powerful sense of responsibility that comes with parental woes. I think people who had abusive childhoods often feel the weight of that responsibility even more keenly than those who didn't. Counterintuitive, but true.

My suggestion would be to start sending them links to websites about effective money management and frugality, if they're online & web-savvy. They will likely ignore them. But if you need to have a go-to response handy for when they press you, that can be it: Here's how you can fix your own life; you don't need me.

Or you could start buying them books about money management and the joys of living within your means. Don't expect them to read them or ever adopt the principles -- people in their 70s often tend to be pretty cemented in their ways -- but at least you have demonstrated that you tried to help.

I would not give them money. They have made their own mistakes and their own bed. And unlike most older folks with money problems, they can actually fix theirs if they cut back on spending. (They probably won't, but they could.)

The most important thing for you to do, in my view, is to work on your own mental health and your own sense of responsibility, guilt, love, co-dependence, enmeshment, whatever, that makes you feel like their problems are your problems. Sometimes you need to learn how to separate with love. It is incredibly painful, and that pain honestly does not go away over time, but it's necessary. Sort of like a fox in a trap chewing off its own foot in order to survive. (Sorry to use such a brutal image, but abusive parents create pretty brutal environments.)

lso29

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2017, 12:28:03 PM »
Thank you everyone -
@BTDretire - I am not exactly sure of their income or house payment, but I would agree with you that their mortgage and taxes must be at least $2000.  I am not sure of what all got written off with their 2013 bankruptcy, but I know they still have a mortgage.  I did find out that it was a chapter 7 bankruptcy but I don't know if that sheds any light on what was included - I assume they still have their various HELOC's to pay off as well - I believe the last one was taken in 2008.    They are very secretive when we start asking questions, but I think the main mortgage on the house is $250K and then there are the HELCO's which quickly bring it to around $400K.

I am going to look into the in home care option and see if their county includes that.  And I think that I need to sit down with them at some point and explain to them what could happen if one of them ends up in a nursing home.  They need to know this information and maybe, this will change some of their bad habits.

Another question - my mom is a retiree of Aetna has maintains Aetna insurance as a benefit of her retirement.  When she reached 65, medicare became her primary, and Aetna is now the secondary.  Does a secondary provide any help with nursing homes or long term care?  If so perhaps I can also look into that option.


Bicycle_B

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2017, 01:03:12 PM »
Iso29, so glad you are looking for answers ahead of time and getting so much good advice on this thread.  +1 to everyone who says keep your own oxygen mask on.

Cared for my own father in his declining years - different situation, but noticed 3 things that might apply:

1. Regardless of how little or much money an aging parent has, there are going to be things that happen which are unpleasant for them.  Most people don't just live a happy healthy life and suddenly die one day, they slowly have problems due to aging.  Bad finances just add another layer of events that they will feel bad about.  You can't fix their feelings... you can comfort them in small ways, but no matter how much you do, they're still going to get old and have illness and lose abilities and have disappointments and feel bad sometimes and face death.  And then they'll die.  You can provide comfort and targeted assistance, but don't try to fix everything - bring a light heart, help in ways that don't drain you, let them feel enough pain to make some adjustments on their own between your visits.  Think (and maybe say out loud) "I love you.  I'm not paying for your life, but I can offer errands and advice if you want"... for "errands and advice", fill in whatever type of support YOU can give.

2. Even if you provide no support besides some listening, a hug and a few jokes, plus the occasional donut, they'll be happy to see you after a while.  This will be more and more true the older and weaker they get. This will be true whether they say so or whether they complain and yell and blame you for everything (which my parent did.  Luckily, in between fuming, he thanked me and told stories and we had some laughs together).

3. If you focus on keeping your tasks light and heart open, not draining your resources, you might have a chance for healed or first-time good relationships before they die.  No guarantees, just a chance.  This is more valuable than money and costs as little as you decide to spend.

Good luck to you!

kite

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2017, 01:58:56 PM »
Thank you everyone -
@BTDretire - I am not exactly sure of their income or house payment, but I would agree with you that their mortgage and taxes must be at least $2000.  I am not sure of what all got written off with their 2013 bankruptcy, but I know they still have a mortgage.  I did find out that it was a chapter 7 bankruptcy but I don't know if that sheds any light on what was included - I assume they still have their various HELOC's to pay off as well - I believe the last one was taken in 2008.    They are very secretive when we start asking questions, but I think the main mortgage on the house is $250K and then there are the HELCO's which quickly bring it to around $400K.

I am going to look into the in home care option and see if their county includes that.  And I think that I need to sit down with them at some point and explain to them what could happen if one of them ends up in a nursing home.  They need to know this information and maybe, this will change some of their bad habits.

Another question - my mom is a retiree of Aetna has maintains Aetna insurance as a benefit of her retirement.  When she reached 65, medicare became her primary, and Aetna is now the secondary.  Does a secondary provide any help with nursing homes or long term care?  If so perhaps I can also look into that option.

Long term care insurance is separate from Medicare Supplemental insurance.  Even with a LTC policy, one must be in need of services as defined by the policy to tap it for benefits.  If she recovered enough from the stroke to work, she probably would not qualify. 

If these were my parents, I'd encourage them not to try to improve their bad habits, but to decide if they want to stay in a home that has become beyond their means.  Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't take advantage of foreclosure with one of their bankruptcies and just walk away.  Unless there is a boatload of equity they are afraid of losing. 
If the monthly payment to stay in their home is

Carless

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2017, 07:55:54 AM »
I've been thinking about your post since yesterday and it's caused some very strong feelings and opinions for me so I'm going to be hideously blunt.

This is not your problem.

Here are the reasons why it's not your problem.
1.  These people don't want help.   They want enabling, they want money to spend on fun, they don't actually want to fix their own problem.
2.  You can't actually help them.  Responsibility without authority is bullshit.  You have no authority over these people so you can't actually fix anything in their lives or insulate them from the natural consequences of their own poor decisions.  Don't even think about touching this stinky, sticky mess without a power of attorney (although I seriously encourage staying out of it completely).

It's very concerning to me that you say "My goal to truly forgive my parents for a difficult childhood filled with physical and emotional abuse is a work in progress, but I have made great strides."  Forgiving someone means different things to different people.  I agree that if at all possible a person should avoid incubating anger and hatred, emotions that consume bits of your soul and enormous amounts of energy.  This however is different from extending forgiveness towards a horrible person who hasn't even apologized and giving them repeated access to your precious time and energy.

So I ask you to consider the following (not to respond to me, but to think about the below questions).

Have your parents apologized for the abuse?
Have they acted with kindness towards you?  Have they changed the abusive behaviour?
Do they treat your time and effort with respect or only call you when they need things?
If you needed help, would they provide it?
Do they respect your boundaries when you say 'no' or try to manipulate you?

If you do not get nice answers to these questions, consider separating yourself from these toxic people and decreasing contact, which will help prevent you from getting dragged in. 

I don't want to come across as mean or heartless, but your time, energy and money are all limited resources.  You should spend them first on your own small family-group, and then if you feel like being generous extend it towards the relatives/friends that were kind to you growing up.  They'll be far more likely to appreciate it - send them a letter telling them how much their support meant.  Take them out to a movie, invite them to dinner etc.  It makes me so upset when I see kind quiet people being ignored in favour of noisy toxic people.

\end rant

CloserToFree

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2017, 08:37:20 AM »
So much good advice on here, and I'm afraid I agree with carless.  Having been in a similar situation before with various relatives, I only wish I had followed this advice myself.  Especially if abuse was involved, it's time for you to move on from all this and make your peace with the fact that they're the masters of their own fate.  Much easier said than done, but think of the alternative: you spend prime years of your life worrying about them and throwing good money after bad, only to be manipulated over and over again. I've been there (loaning money to a family member who continues to make insanely irresponsible decisions) and it's not a good place.  Have already told myself never again.  Hope you can get there too.  You can forgive without becoming a martyr. Stay strong!

Kiwi Fuzz

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2017, 09:22:42 AM »
...

Another question - my mom is a retiree of Aetna has maintains Aetna insurance as a benefit of her retirement.  When she reached 65, medicare became her primary, and Aetna is now the secondary.  Does a secondary provide any help with nursing homes or long term care?  If so perhaps I can also look into that option.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I can't say anything more than helpful people have already about the debt and spending but I might be able to help on the insurance question.

Secondary insurance should pick up anything that the primary insurance doesn't based on the benefits covered under the Aetna plan. For confirmation you really want to call Aetna and ask them directly what would be covered - that's really the only way to know. And please don't take it as a final word, either, because they can change coverage at the start of a new plan year (plan year and calendar year are often the same but some employers have plan years from the middle of the year to the middle of the next calendar year). So, in the event that your parents need some of these benefits, I definitely suggest calling Aetna again to confirm at that time.

When you call them you'll need to know the specifics of her plan - group number and maybe her member number. They should be able to answer general coverage questions without a healthcare proxy/power of attorney but they may prefer to only disclose to the subscriber/dependent (your parents) so be prepared for that if you call yourself. All they can do is follow the guidelines set by the employer.

marion10

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2017, 10:17:04 AM »
No secondary health insurance that I know of  covers nursing home care- that would require a separate long term care policy which at your parents age is going to be expensive and they might not be able to get. Medicare and most health insurance will cover nursing home care for a short period - up to 100 days after a hospital stay when needed for rehabilitation. More info here- https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/skilled-nursing-facility-care.html
Health insurance usually follows the same general model- if you have secondary insurance, it will pick up the co-pays.
If you are in the US, then you might call your county's Office of Aging to get some general information. But I echo the other posters, do not spend too much of your limited energy worrying about this.

Pigeon

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2017, 10:52:00 AM »
Even for couples who have reasonable assets to start, the tough part comes when one of them needs care.  Unless they have separate LTC policies (very expensive and increasingly hard to even get), insurance doesn't cover assisted living or nursing homes.  So, they are private pay until they have spent down almost all of their assets. Medicare doesn't cover assisted living, only nursing homes for those who need it.  My dad just died and his mediocre nursing home was almost $13K/month private pay.  He was there for 2 years before he died. 

While it is true that the surviving house can keep the house for their lifetime, the reality is that they are left so little to live on that many people can't afford to maintain the house and keep food on the table.

golden1

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2017, 11:22:48 AM »
Quote
The most important thing for you to do, in my view, is to work on your own mental health and your own sense of responsibility, guilt, love, co-dependence, enmeshment, whatever, that makes you feel like their problems are your problems. Sometimes you need to learn how to separate with love. It is incredibly painful, and that pain honestly does not go away over time, but it's necessary. Sort of like a fox in a trap chewing off its own foot in order to survive. (Sorry to use such a brutal image, but abusive parents create pretty brutal environments.)

This is one of the best things I've read in awhile, and so true.  It is an awful, awful feeling to realize that sometimes, your family can't be what you dreamed it should be, and that you need to step away in order to put your energies towards things that may actually bring something positive to the world.  I really do wish my mom the best, and I wish things could have been different, but I need to make my kids and husband a priority.

PaulMaxime

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2017, 12:16:54 PM »
Even for couples who have reasonable assets to start, the tough part comes when one of them needs care.  Unless they have separate LTC policies (very expensive and increasingly hard to even get)

I'd be very careful with long term care insurance. When it became clear that my Dad needed some long term care, the insurance company made jumping through the hoops to apply for coverage so onerous that we never managed to actually get him any care. And he paid in to this policy for many years, trying to do the right thing for us.

It was incredibly frustrating. Hopefully most of the people on this forum will have assets available to pay for this type of care. If you want the equivalent just put aside the premium in a separate account yourself or something. I think a lot of these policies are scams.

Pigeon

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Re: My aging parents are in a financial crisis
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2017, 01:16:19 PM »
Even for couples who have reasonable assets to start, the tough part comes when one of them needs care.  Unless they have separate LTC policies (very expensive and increasingly hard to even get)

I'd be very careful with long term care insurance. When it became clear that my Dad needed some long term care, the insurance company made jumping through the hoops to apply for coverage so onerous that we never managed to actually get him any care. And he paid in to this policy for many years, trying to do the right thing for us.

It was incredibly frustrating. Hopefully most of the people on this forum will have assets available to pay for this type of care. If you want the equivalent just put aside the premium in a separate account yourself or something. I think a lot of these policies are scams.

I've no doubt that some policies are more difficult than others, but I know many people who have used them for their parents without significant problems, other than a bunch of paperwork that needs doing.  Like any other policy, you have to read them carefully so you know what they cover and what they don't. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!