Author Topic: Mustachianism almost a religion?  (Read 22955 times)

cats

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2013, 04:05:17 PM »
I think it can definitely become an obsession...I'm not sure if I would consider that to be the same as a religion.  I know I have occasionally caught my partner and myself in moments where we are chasing savings/frugality to the point of being cheap, or where it seems like "hey, we have talked about nothing but FI today!".  Of course, I then typically stop myself and realize that this is getting silly.

Also, if anyone is seriously thinking of blindly following MMM, I would suggest they definitely read through some old blog posts and maybe check out the annual spending.  I am not calling MMM a hypocrite, but it's also clear that a) he is not as 110% hardcore as some people maybe seem to think he is, and b) his thoughts/opinions/spending habits change over time.  I don't get the impression that he *really* wants to be a cult leader (though I guess I could be wrong).
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 04:14:40 PM by cats »

JamesAt15

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2013, 07:51:09 PM »
I have a feeling I might have made some posts that were perceived as "must blindly do exactly as MMM does" zealotry, in that if someone posts a question about Topic A, and there's an MMM blog post about Topic A, I've posted a quick link to the blog post and little else.

I have not been doing this with the intent of "MMM has spoken on this, therefore the Way is clear and there is nothing more that needs to be said." But we have see a few posters on the forums who ask questions about topics (purchasing real estate in Florida, for example) who turn out not to be aware of the MMM blog posts and a lot of the information discussed there. I assume it's because they've done a google search and find a link to the forums, but don't notice that there is also a blog.

So I have been posting links to the blog entries just to make sure they're aware that they're out there, as a starting point for discussion about the topic, and to turn people on to that hefty archive of very entertaining and informative writing that they may have missed.

Sorry if my link posting has come across that way. If I do so again, I'll try to make it a little clearer that I'm only suggesting the post as a bit of first reading about the topic and a basis for later discussion.


Daley

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2013, 09:27:55 PM »
Listen... JamesAt15 and anyone else suddenly questioning yourselves about being part of the supposed "blind zealotry" referenced... if you're self aware enough to ask that question about yourself, then you probably aren't. Even if you feel it might hit a bit close to your self-perceived actions since joining this particular FIRE community, the fact that you're aware of it and see the downside of that sort of blind devotion is a good thing. Keep it up, you're doing great!

Granted, the true blind zealots usually burn out and vanish rather rapidly, but my concerns were that its frequency has been on the rise, and the forums don't appear to get near the feedback and exposure that the blog does, nor the influence. I feel that if it's a segment continually ignored or marginalized, it's an opportunity missed and a disservice potentially done... and my deepest concern lies in the fact that MMM's style is one that does have the potential to swing into dangerous waters with internet communities and human nature as the readership continues to grow and the context of his greater body of writing is lost into a wall of insurmountable reading for many.

Whether the man (or anyone else for that matter) agrees with my observations or not are up to him, I'm just expressing concern over observations made about the community as a whole in a thread started around the very heart of the issues observed. Joke thread or not, look at the very real response it's gotten. Clearly, a nerve has been struck with more than just myself.

ch12

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2013, 09:33:52 AM »
I was halfway joking with my list (especially 4), but I think that 3 and 5 are valid.

You are supposed to live mindfully, conscious of the cost you impose on the environment/Earth, and also to have fun and do as you like, within reasonable bounds.

Of course you can apply reductio ad absurdum and say, for example, that you can't bike because it contributes to carbon emissions and thus to global warming, which is bad for the Earth (that politician was so ridiculous). But I think "reasonable bounds" covers most of it.

The reason that I agree that Mustachianism is a belief system and quasi-religion is because I've converted people to it (I suppose that I object to blind zealotry as well). My sister and her fiancÚ have read the comprehensive Zero to Hero post (as well as other articles) and agree that they would like to spend more time with their children than the average two-worker household would. Her fiancÚ, without any input from me or anybody, already saves 50% of his income, so I suppose that I deliberately sow on fertile ground. One of my former colleagues and a good friend also read the Zero to Hero post and loved it; she is in the process of listening to every MMM post through SoundGecko. I mentioned MMM to her when we were discussing how her mother has made her own hygiene and household cleaning products for a very long time and provides food for her family through gardening.

I've also tried to convert two other people. One has agreed that early retirement is a worthy goal and something he's interested in pursuing when he's actually making money. He uses his bike or his own two legs for most things and minimizes his car use for financial and environmental reasons. The other person, my best friend, wildly out-Mustachians me to begin with, so I guess that I didn't really convert her so much as show her another facet of environmental consciousness and financial responsibility.

I don't think that Mustachianism replaces or displaces a religion (I'm pretty deeply religious), but I definitely agree that it shares traits with at least a belief system.

plantingourpennies

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2013, 10:25:31 AM »
and my deepest concern lies in the fact that MMM's style is one that does have the potential to swing into dangerous waters with internet communities and human nature as the readership continues to grow and the context of his greater body of writing is lost into a wall of insurmountable reading for many.

There is a segment of the population that will always be drawn to that "style." Its harmless, albeit creepy when somebody calls MMM a prophet, or quotes bastardized scripture in response to a comment on the blog, but I don't see how its dangerous (love to hear your take here IP).

As the number of zealots on the board increase, I do find myself more on the ERE forums though. Signal vs. Noise, etc...


arebelspy

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2013, 10:34:59 AM »
As the number of zealots on the board increase, I do find myself more on the ERE forums though. Signal vs. Noise, etc...

Interesting.  I would describe the ERE forums as having many more zealots than here.

YMMV on that, apparently.  :)
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Eric

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2013, 03:27:15 PM »
I just ordered my WWMMMD bracelet.  Might as well have a physical reminder of what I'm always thinking.

oldtoyota

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2013, 03:38:40 PM »
I personally hate the terms mustachian and mustachianism, though I realize I am probably a minority on this forum.

I, too, dislike the terms.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 03:44:26 PM by oldtoyota »

oldtoyota

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2013, 03:39:35 PM »
I personally hate the terms mustachian and mustachianism, though I realize I am probably a minority on this forum.
They aren't to my taste, either. Unlike actual mustaches.

I'm fine with those terms but it's off-putting every time I see a username that is a variation of "Mr. Money Mustache", "Mustache" or "MMM". Can't you guys be more creative?

Word! Or "wordstache." LOL

oldtoyota

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2013, 03:42:10 PM »
I'm fine with those terms but it's off-putting every time I see a username that is a variation of "Mr. Money Mustache", "Mustache" or "MMM". Can't you guys be more creative?

In a similar vein, and forgive me for saying this, but it's been especially frustrating for me ever since last October for similar reasons... the whole "must blindly do exactly as MMM does" folks.

I've lost count how many PMs and emails I've gotten from people who blindly run out and buy an iPhone and an Airvoice SIM with the $10/month plan, and then get in trouble and complain to me that their reception is terrible or they're running out of minutes too quickly. I don't begrudge helping them correct their mistakes to ensure they get the coverage and service that actually fits their needs, it's why I created the guide after all, but it concerns me sometimes how seemingly logical people are just turning off their critical filters and adopting this monkey-see-monkey-do attitude to his blog posts assuming everything written must be a one-size-fits-everyone solution.

It's purely a philosophy that has a few compatible ideas with some religious tenets, but it's a philosophy that's starting to develop a bit of blind zealotry as well due to his cult of personality and the nature of the internet... I think MMM would be well served to be aware and cautious of how he handles this element.

Yes. I agree with another poster who suggests a blog post on independent thinking. The lemming attitude I see is a little scary at times.

And, we all know MMM did not invent frugality, right? Right. Oddly, some folks act as if they never read Thoreau or many others who wrote about similar topics.

 
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 03:44:04 PM by oldtoyota »

grantmeaname

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2013, 04:01:18 PM »
Yes. I agree with another poster who suggests a blog post on independent thinking. The lemming attitude I see is a little scary at times.
So encourage it where you see it.

Quote
And, we all know MMM did not invent frugality, right? Right. Oddly, some folks act as if they never read Thoreau or many others who wrote about similar topics.
Many of the forum members found frugality (or first took it seriously) because of MMM. No, he didn't invent either frugality or FI, but were it not for him many of us wouldn't be on this path. Walden sure didn't inspire me to retire by 30. So what's wrong with giving the big guy a little credit?

thelamb

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2013, 04:53:04 PM »
I'm reading through this because it's an interesting conversation and I'm trying to think of what my take is, but I'm also pondering why I'm still on my computer after a day of working on the computer and thinking it'd be nice to stroll down to the bar to have a few beers and maybe a burger and watch game six of the world series and maybe chat up some people that live in the neighborhood.  But that's not very "mustachian", I say.  But then I check my monthly budget spreadsheet and I see I'm on target and can swing it, but if I go too wild tomorrow I'll be a bit behind and have to crunch down more for a few days to catch back up so I'm not sure what I'm going to do... But I do. 

There was going to be a point about dogmatism balanced against conscious decisions and priorities, but I figure it's all there. 

oldtoyota

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2013, 05:40:27 PM »
Yes. I agree with another poster who suggests a blog post on independent thinking. The lemming attitude I see is a little scary at times.
So encourage it where you see it.

Quote
And, we all know MMM did not invent frugality, right? Right. Oddly, some folks act as if they never read Thoreau or many others who wrote about similar topics.
Many of the forum members found frugality (or first took it seriously) because of MMM. No, he didn't invent either frugality or FI, but were it not for him many of us wouldn't be on this path. Walden sure didn't inspire me to retire by 30. So what's wrong with giving the big guy a little credit?

I did not say there was anything wrong with giving MMM credit. I said he did not invent frugality.

MMM could encourage independent thinking better than I could, because he has the audience.


Eric

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2013, 05:48:50 PM »
Couldn't pretty much all of his posts fall under the category of Encouraging Independent Thought?

I think it depends on who you feel his audience is.  If it's the consumer masses, his whole message is that you need to start thinking critically about all of your spending.  That's something most people don't do, so I see that as encouraging independent thought.

Russ

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2013, 05:50:18 PM »
I did not say there was anything wrong with giving MMM credit. I said he did not invent frugality.

I doubt even 25% of the people here have read Thoreau. I couldn't make it past the first 5 pages of Walden.

Hamster

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2013, 11:28:40 PM »
OK, not much is geekier than quoting Monty Python, but geek out with me, my fellow philosophers/ co-religionists:
Quote from: Life of Brian
MMM: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves! You're all individuals!
Forumites: [in unison] Yes! We're all individuals!
MMM: You're all different!
Forumites: [in unison] Yes, we are all different!
IP Daley: I'm not...
Forumites: Shhh!

ender

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2013, 04:31:17 AM »
I did not say there was anything wrong with giving MMM credit. I said he did not invent frugality.

I doubt even 25% of the people here have read Thoreau. I couldn't make it past the first 5 pages of Walden.


That's unfortunate, it's a wonderful book ;)

plantingourpennies

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2013, 04:35:12 AM »
OK, not much is geekier than quoting Monty Python, but geek out with me, my fellow philosophers/ co-religionists:
Quote from: Life of Brian
MMM: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves! You're all individuals!
Forumites: [in unison] Yes! We're all individuals!
MMM: You're all different!
Forumites: [in unison] Yes, we are all different!
IP Daley: I'm not...
Forumites: Shhh!

Ha!

oldtoyota

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2013, 07:27:05 AM »
I did not say there was anything wrong with giving MMM credit. I said he did not invent frugality.

I doubt even 25% of the people here have read Thoreau. I couldn't make it past the first 5 pages of Walden.


That's unfortunate, it's a wonderful book ;)

Agreed on the wonderful part. =-)

Daley

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2013, 08:09:41 AM »
OK, not much is geekier than quoting Monty Python, but geek out with me, my fellow philosophers/ co-religionists:

Am I the only one here who sees the deep irony in quoting an overquoted, 34 year old Python sketch for a laugh in reference to a discussion regarding conformity?

How about the fact that it's the contrarian in the thread pointing this out?

Would it help having these questions presented by a magical, pansexual, non-threatening spokesthing?

Any theories on when this conversation becomes so recursive that the universe implodes?

Have I asked enough questions yet?

oldtoyota

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2013, 12:41:15 PM »
OK, not much is geekier than quoting Monty Python, but geek out with me, my fellow philosophers/ co-religionists:

Am I the only one here who sees the deep irony in quoting an overquoted, 34 year old Python sketch for a laugh in reference to a discussion regarding conformity?

How about the fact that it's the contrarian in the thread pointing this out?

Would it help having these questions presented by a magical, pansexual, non-threatening spokesthing?

Any theories on when this conversation becomes so recursive that the universe implodes?

Have I asked enough questions yet?

The answer is 42, but we do not know the question.

chaboydatdude

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2013, 01:48:20 PM »
Fight Club Comparison, "Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need." I believe this rings true with what MMM talks about in his blog posts and how he focuses on only buying things that will improve your life.

MMM is Tyler Durden and we are the space monkeys.

momo

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Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2013, 12:36:37 PM »
Fight Club Comparison, "Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need." I believe this rings true with what MMM talks about in his blog posts and how he focuses on only buying things that will improve your life.

MMM is Tyler Durden and we are the space monkeys.

Completely agree.  Personally MMM has yet to offend me at all and I doubt he ever will because so much of what he writes encourages creative independent thinking.  If anything his direct, self deprecating, non-conformist approach to not wasting his limited time or energy pursuing things resonates strongly with me.  That said, I can easily see how people may not care of the profanity or the face punching but for them, sometimes I feel they may be better viewing the Yahoo video and then reading the Forbes article first.