Author Topic: Mustachianism almost a religion?  (Read 23637 times)

lifejoy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3928
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Canada, eh
  • Lovin' the Mustachian life!
    • Not Buying This
Mustachianism almost a religion?
« on: April 18, 2013, 10:59:34 AM »
As a spiritual agnostic, I find my path on the road of badassity to be a very interesting one.

Does anyone else agree that Mustachianism is a lot like a religion? We wait for people to "see the light", sometimes we can get a little preachy, and we're often asking ourselves, What Would MMM Do?

Heh, or maybe it's more like a cult. Mustaches instead of hooded robes? Just kidding ;)

I don't want to offend anyone by implying that Mustachianism is a religion - I just think there are some interesting similarities. What are your thoughts?

jrhampt

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Connecticut
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 11:05:04 AM »
I do tend to meditate on it day and night...

zoltani

  • Guest
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 11:11:14 AM »
I personally hate the terms mustachian and mustachianism, though I realize I am probably a minority on this forum.

matchewed

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4422
  • Location: CT
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 11:16:11 AM »
Any philosophical take on life can be thought of that way. Why would "Mustachianism" be any different? Aren't religions just a philosophical take on life with a bit of "godness" tossed in for good measure? Most religions offer perspectives, ethical and moral considerations; sure they may also have symbolic rituals to help bind a social group together but isn't that a possible reason as to why there is a larger group of people who do not identify with religious groups in developed nations? Those same people have an access to make their own social groups on other reasons than shared symbolic rituals, they can now just take various perspectives and identify with it. And it gets larger and broader than just one thing. Now we can truly become multi-faceted (I actually prefer to think of it as a cloud within my mind) and pick and choose various philosophies and perspectives. We can choose to label ourselves as nearly anything.

So is it almost a religion... yeah I guess. But then again so are many other things. I prefer to view Mustachianism as a loosely cohesive group of dissimilar individuals who share related goals and related philosophies. They're not the same goals and philosophies but they can be seen as similar.

You can define it for yourself in any way that makes you satisfied.

boy_bye

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 11:42:47 AM »
even MMM himself says:

Mustachianism has many facets.  It’s a lifestyle and a fake religion all in one.

in What do you mean you don't have a bike?!?!

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 23128
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 12:51:05 PM »
No.

Moustachianism is a philosophy.

While having philosophical elements, Religion != Philosophy


Saving money is all about making a reasoned choice based on measurable data.  Religion is a conscious choice to follow faith and belief  - even to the exclusion of reason.

Spork

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5742
    • Spork In The Eye
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 01:05:54 PM »
No.

Moustachianism is a philosophy.

While having philosophical elements, Religion != Philosophy


Religion is a philosophy.
Philosophy is not a religion.

Religion is a kind of philosophy.  Most of them contain very clear stances on ethics, epistemology and metaphysics.  Some even contain politics and aesthetics.

Now... "is it a good philosophy?" is a different topic entirely.

DebtDerp

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 155
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 01:47:17 PM »
Mustachianism is a philosophy not a religion. Mustachianism doesn't deal in spirituality or morality.

tuyop

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 02:07:19 PM »
I'm not even sure if mustachianism is a philosophy, per se. It's more like a synthesis of stoicism and financial conservativism with some libertarianism thrown in there. Just like how "objectivism" isn't a philosophy (well, not a coherent one). Personally I find it jives very well with my own recent leanings towards anarchism but I don't have a very strong background in anarchism so I may be wrong.

The question is, of course – like all questions in modern philosophy – about definition. What is "a philosophy"? "A religion"? "Mustachianism"?

capital

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 454
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 09:13:44 PM »
I personally hate the terms mustachian and mustachianism, though I realize I am probably a minority on this forum.
They aren't to my taste, either. Unlike actual mustaches.

Rich M

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Boulder, CO
  • Fortune Kookie
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 09:43:13 PM »
It's  lifestyle.

like taking baths with cheap soap!

i_am_the_slime

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2013, 05:28:04 AM »
even MMM himself says:

Mustachianism has many facets.  It’s a lifestyle and a fake religion all in one.

in What do you mean you don't have a bike?!?!

Once people start quoting the Sacred Texts to defend a position, it is officially a religion!

boy_bye

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2013, 07:06:59 AM »
even MMM himself says:

Mustachianism has many facets.  It’s a lifestyle and a fake religion all in one.

in What do you mean you don't have a bike?!?!

Once people start quoting the Sacred Texts to defend a position, it is officially a religion!

Hahaha! I have to admit that that particular article is my jam.

Adventine

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2423
  • Location: Memphis, USA
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2013, 07:37:50 AM »
I personally hate the terms mustachian and mustachianism, though I realize I am probably a minority on this forum.
They aren't to my taste, either. Unlike actual mustaches.

I'm fine with those terms but it's off-putting every time I see a username that is a variation of "Mr. Money Mustache", "Mustache" or "MMM". Can't you guys be more creative?

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4825
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Still kickin', I guess.
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2013, 09:24:00 AM »
I'm fine with those terms but it's off-putting every time I see a username that is a variation of "Mr. Money Mustache", "Mustache" or "MMM". Can't you guys be more creative?

In a similar vein, and forgive me for saying this, but it's been especially frustrating for me ever since last October for similar reasons... the whole "must blindly do exactly as MMM does" folks.

I've lost count how many PMs and emails I've gotten from people who blindly run out and buy an iPhone and an Airvoice SIM with the $10/month plan, and then get in trouble and complain to me that their reception is terrible or they're running out of minutes too quickly. I don't begrudge helping them correct their mistakes to ensure they get the coverage and service that actually fits their needs, it's why I created the guide after all, but it concerns me sometimes how seemingly logical people are just turning off their critical filters and adopting this monkey-see-monkey-do attitude to his blog posts assuming everything written must be a one-size-fits-everyone solution.

It's purely a philosophy that has a few compatible ideas with some religious tenets, but it's a philosophy that's starting to develop a bit of blind zealotry as well due to his cult of personality and the nature of the internet... I think MMM would be well served to be aware and cautious of how he handles this element.

Russ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2211
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Boulder, CO
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2013, 09:33:17 AM »
I'm fine with those terms but it's off-putting every time I see a username that is a variation of "Mr. Money Mustache", "Mustache" or "MMM". Can't you guys be more creative?

In a similar vein, and forgive me for saying this, but it's been especially frustrating for me ever since last October for similar reasons... the whole "must blindly do exactly as MMM does" folks.

...

it concerns me sometimes how seemingly logical people are just turning off their critical filters and adopting this monkey-see-monkey-do attitude to his blog posts assuming everything written must be a one-size-fits-everyone solution.

It's purely a philosophy that has a few compatible ideas with some religious tenets, but it's a philosophy that's starting to develop a bit of blind zealotry as well due to his cult of personality and the nature of the internet... I think MMM would be well served to be aware and cautious of how he handles this element.

I don't even have words for how much I agree with this. Mr. / Mrs. MM, if you're reading, maybe an article about independent thinking could be written soon? It's your blog of course so do what you will, but I'd sure love to see it

Spork

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5742
    • Spork In The Eye
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2013, 09:34:29 AM »
... it concerns me sometimes how seemingly logical people are just turning off their critical filters and adopting this monkey-see-monkey-do attitude to his blog posts assuming everything written must be a one-size-fits-everyone solution.

It's purely a philosophy that has a few compatible ideas with some religious tenets, but it's a philosophy that's starting to develop a bit of blind zealotry as well due to his cult of personality and the nature of the internet... I think MMM would be well served to be aware and cautious of how he handles this element.

Agreed. 

I probably have quite a bit higher spending than most people around here.... And I do it (mostly) by choice -- all the while looking for holes I can plug.  I see this as a menu where I see how it can work if you do A, B, C ... Z, but I can can chose 5 (or 10 or whatever).

For the most part I see MMM as a lot of fun tongue-in-cheek hyperbole (a style I tend to use a lot myself).  It's religion with a wink and a nod.  If you missed the wink, you missed part of the point.

spider1204

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
  • Location: Lexington, KY
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2013, 10:55:32 AM »
Quote
Quote
In a similar vein, and forgive me for saying this, but it's been especially frustrating for me ever since last October for similar reasons... the whole "must blindly do exactly as MMM does" folks.

...

it concerns me sometimes how seemingly logical people are just turning off their critical filters and adopting this monkey-see-monkey-do attitude to his blog posts assuming everything written must be a one-size-fits-everyone solution.

It's purely a philosophy that has a few compatible ideas with some religious tenets, but it's a philosophy that's starting to develop a bit of blind zealotry as well due to his cult of personality and the nature of the internet... I think MMM would be well served to be aware and cautious of how he handles this element.

I don't even have words for how much I agree with this. Mr. / Mrs. MM, if you're reading, maybe an article about independent thinking could be written soon? It's your blog of course so do what you will, but I'd sure love to see it

+1, it didn't used to be this way, but lately I've been seeing more and more posts dripping with this kind of blind zealotry.  I think with MMM's writing style there's been a lot more "though shalt do things this way or you're a fool" lately, but I like to think this is more hyperbole then true dogma.  However, it's definitely concerning and I think the audience is getting to be large enough that you have people around that aren't able to see it for what it is, and have instead started to treat it as a rigid religion rather than a more fluid philosophy.

Maybe that's how a lot of religions form anyway, don't know much but sometimes I get the feeling that some prophets really were just charismatic folks talking about how to lead a better life, and other people throw the dogmatic / supernatural element on top of that.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2013, 12:20:15 PM »
Independent thinking is the key to a life well lead.

People who don't get that are basically followers anyways, and I'd rather they follow MMM than the consumerism shoved down everyone's throats.

Most people I respect on these forums disagree with MMM on any number of things.

But I personally believe one of the tenants of Mustachianism is conscious, deliberate living.  People who don't get that don't get the core of it, IMO.  Of course don't take my word for it, but decide for yourself.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Margaret Fuller

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2013, 02:01:54 PM »
Mustachianism fits in with my religion, but doesn't take its place.  One of my spiritual practices is to be environmentally conscious and frugal living is part of that.  Maybe MMM can be considered a prophet and I can accept that.  He is doing this blog for a higher purpose--the survival of the human species.

plantingourpennies

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • None.
    • Money, Kittens, Happiness
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2013, 02:23:55 PM »
Maybe MMM can be considered a prophet and I can accept that.  He is doing this blog for a higher purpose--the survival of the human species.

Holy shit, he accidentally started a Religion! 

StarswirlTheMustached

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 475
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2013, 02:31:03 PM »
What I find interesting is that the only other blog I read religiously regularly, The Archdruid Report, recently put up a poston the topic of Civil Religions. I think you could make a good case that MMM is the head of a minority civil religion. (though not an exclusive one ; I've seen some Americanism on this board, and plenty of faith in what the Archdruid calls the religion of progress).

I'm fine with those terms but it's off-putting every time I see a username that is a variation of "Mr. Money Mustache", "Mustache" or "MMM". Can't you guys be more creative?
*cough* Guess not. Sorry.

AJ

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 906
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2013, 02:45:17 PM »
Independent thinking is the key to a life well lead.

People who don't get that are basically followers anyways, and I'd rather they follow MMM than the consumerism shoved down everyone's throats.

+1

Though, I would say the same thing of almost any of the "gurus". I certainly hope MMM & co. don't end up as dogmatic and one-dimensional as Ramsey or Orman, but if people need someone to follow then MMM is one of the best options for sure.

marz1982

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 73
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2013, 04:27:51 PM »
My cat just wiped out my previous post!  OK, so I was saying that I agree with others that it's a Philosophy not a religion, and is compatible with most if not all religions. 

I see Mr MMM, ERE and all the other blogs springing up around this topic as a new school of Philosophy for the 21st century, and I'm very happy to be a small part of it!

kisserofsinners

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Age: 45
  • Location: San Francisco
    • Monkey wants a house
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2013, 05:44:54 PM »
Mustachianism is a philosophy not a religion. Mustachianism doesn't deal in spirituality or morality.

I would argue there is plenty of moral judgements floating around here actually; there is moral high ground for environmental issues and it's anti-"consumerist".

Spork

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5742
    • Spork In The Eye
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2013, 05:49:18 PM »
Mustachianism is a philosophy not a religion. Mustachianism doesn't deal in spirituality or morality.

I would argue there is plenty of moral judgements floating around here actually; there is moral high ground for environmental issues and it's anti-"consumerist".

Yes, and moral judgments are part of philosophy.  This is the branch of philosophy known as ethics.

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2013, 06:26:35 PM »
I Accidentally a Cult: the MMM Story.

kendallf

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1068
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2013, 07:38:05 PM »
Hey, if L. Ron Hubbard can start a religion and eventually get Katie Holmes to join (albeit temporarily)..who are we to judge?  I hereby nominate MMM as the replacement for Scientology in Katie's affections.  Please.

tuyop

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2013, 08:09:04 PM »

brewer12345

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1381
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2013, 08:46:08 PM »
I think this is more like "Fight Club."

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2013, 10:18:55 PM »
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower.  You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2013, 11:20:58 PM »
I think this is more like "Fight Club."

Except the opposite, where you DO tell people about it?

"If this is your first night, you have to share your budget for mocking."
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Lina

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 71
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2013, 04:20:42 AM »
Independent thinking is the key to a life well lead.

People who don't get that are basically followers anyways, and I'd rather they follow MMM than the consumerism shoved down everyone's throats.

Most people I respect on these forums disagree with MMM on any number of things.

But I personally believe one of the tenants of Mustachianism is conscious, deliberate living.  People who don't get that don't get the core of it, IMO.  Of course don't take my word for it, but decide for yourself.

This reflects really well my thoughts. Conscious, deliberate living based on your principles. I pick and choose the pieces that fit my lifestyle.

Different communities have different views. I also belong to a triathlon community where I meet a lot of likeminded people who prioritize training as it is an important part of their life. Kids are no excuse for not training. Many people use their commute to exercise either by biking or running to your work. The anti consumer view of this site doesn't quite work with the more equipment focused triathlon life but by using the core of Mustachianism you can make your choices based on what is important for you.

Phoebe

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 222
  • Location: Wisconsin
    • Phoebe's Journey
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2013, 02:44:17 PM »
I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower.  You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.

Haha!  Great Creek quote!!!

plantingourpennies

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
  • None.
    • Money, Kittens, Happiness
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2013, 03:05:07 PM »
I think this is more like "Fight Club."

Except the opposite, where you DO tell people about it?

"If this is your first night, you have to share your budget for mocking."

"If I had a car payment, I'd name it Marla."

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2013, 03:21:44 PM »
I think this is more like "Fight Club."
"If this is your first night, you have to share your budget for mocking."
"If I had a car payment, I'd name it Marla."

"I am Jack's giant Mustache."
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Louisa

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2013, 08:52:12 AM »
I came to the website already someone who practiced frugality, so MMM is preaching to the choir with me. I stay because I like his sense of humor and irreverence, but what does turn me off at times is the condescending tone directed at the pathetic, stupid great unwashed who have not "seen the light" and had their conversion experience. In this way, Mustachianism is indeed, like many traditional religions, a holier-than-thou faith.

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4825
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Still kickin', I guess.
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2013, 09:24:35 AM »
Independent thinking is the key to a life well lead.

People who don't get that are basically followers anyways, and I'd rather they follow MMM than the consumerism shoved down everyone's throats.

Agree to the independent thought idea, but I have to disagree with you and others on the latter sentiment. It doesn't matter what a blind follower follows, the act itself is dangerous no matter who the supposed leader is... just look at all the wickedness done unto the world in the name of Jesus. The blind MMM followers are still just as wastefully consumerist driven as they were before, they're just doing it under the flag of "frugality" now.

A far better attitude would be to be aware of these people and speak to them directly.... take their attention and awareness as an opportunity to instead elevate and uplift them. Provide the tools and insight to pull away another self-aware individual from the herd. Unfortunately, that's difficult to achieve with the current tone and direction of the blog and community.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 09:26:07 AM by I.P. Daley »

grantmeaname

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5960
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Middle West
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2013, 09:53:39 AM »
Not to be too sacrilegious, but this is not the first time in history that a rare minority with values contrary to the rest of society has followed the moral teachings of a carpenter.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2013, 10:41:30 AM »
Independent thinking is the key to a life well lead.

People who don't get that are basically followers anyways, and I'd rather they follow MMM than the consumerism shoved down everyone's throats.

Agree to the independent thought idea, but I have to disagree with you and others on the latter sentiment. It doesn't matter what a blind follower follows, the act itself is dangerous no matter who the supposed leader is... just look at all the wickedness done unto the world in the name of Jesus. The blind MMM followers are still just as wastefully consumerist driven as they were before, they're just doing it under the flag of "frugality" now.

A far better attitude would be to be aware of these people and speak to them directly.... take their attention and awareness as an opportunity to instead elevate and uplift them. Provide the tools and insight to pull away another self-aware individual from the herd. Unfortunately, that's difficult to achieve with the current tone and direction of the blog and community.

I agree with most of that, I just don't think this is the right place for that.  It's a specific message for people looking for help in a specific area, and if you try to do too much, you likely will accomplish nothing at all.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4825
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Still kickin', I guess.
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2013, 11:48:13 AM »
Independent thinking is the key to a life well lead.

People who don't get that are basically followers anyways, and I'd rather they follow MMM than the consumerism shoved down everyone's throats.

Agree to the independent thought idea, but I have to disagree with you and others on the latter sentiment. It doesn't matter what a blind follower follows, the act itself is dangerous no matter who the supposed leader is... just look at all the wickedness done unto the world in the name of Jesus. The blind MMM followers are still just as wastefully consumerist driven as they were before, they're just doing it under the flag of "frugality" now.

A far better attitude would be to be aware of these people and speak to them directly.... take their attention and awareness as an opportunity to instead elevate and uplift them. Provide the tools and insight to pull away another self-aware individual from the herd. Unfortunately, that's difficult to achieve with the current tone and direction of the blog and community.

I agree with most of that, I just don't think this is the right place for that.  It's a specific message for people looking for help in a specific area, and if you try to do too much, you likely will accomplish nothing at all.

If the very place where it is witnessed and encountered isn't the right place and time for it, when and where would be? Just as doing too much, doing nothing at all will have the exact same results.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2013, 12:01:15 PM »
If the very place where it is witnessed and encountered isn't the right place and time for it, when and where would be? Just as doing too much, doing nothing at all will have the exact same results.

Dealing with it when encountering it is different than changing "the tone and direction of the blog and community."
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

kkbmustang

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1285
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2013, 12:22:14 PM »
Not to be too sacrilegious, but this is not the first time in history that a rare minority with values contrary to the rest of society has followed the moral teachings of a carpenter.

grantmeaname - As one who follows the teachings of my home boy, Jesus, that was funny.

tuyop

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2013, 12:23:04 PM »
I don't understand what you guys mean, are there people here who are just practicing stoic frugality and simple living for no reason? I think intentionality is part of the exercise and that's kind of the opposite of blind belief.

grantmeaname

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5960
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Middle West
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2013, 01:53:38 PM »
Tuyop, I think that's the ideal, but about once a week somebody signs up for the forums and talks about their crossfit gym, their new iPhone, or their new bike despite having consumer debt, no need for a smartphone, and a 16 mile commute to work. Imitating the mindset is good; imitating the actions, without thinking about them, is a little less so.

tuyop

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 331
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2013, 02:12:42 PM »
Tuyop, I think that's the ideal, but about once a week somebody signs up for the forums and talks about their crossfit gym, their new iPhone, or their new bike despite having consumer debt, no need for a smartphone, and a 16 mile commute to work. Imitating the mindset is good; imitating the actions, without thinking about them, is a little less so.

That may be me then, I've got about 2k in consumer debt hanging around on a .99% card, a car loan (gasp), and I still have the nerve to buy things (using 40% of my income) like fresh vegetables, whey protein and meat because they're important to me.

I just thought it was kind of in keeping with the tenets of MMM because I spend 40% of my income on things that matter to me after careful evaluation, while using the rest to pay down debt and invest in a better lifestyle.

grantmeaname

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5960
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Middle West
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2013, 02:21:01 PM »
That's imitating the mindset. If you had $22,000 on four credit cards and you signed up for Sandra's Snazzy Crossfit Gym, you'd be imitating the actions and living in a way inconsistent with the principles despite that the actions matched, like all three of the examples I gave in my last post. See the difference?

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4825
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Still kickin', I guess.
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2013, 02:25:52 PM »
Dealing with it when encountering it is different than changing "the tone and direction of the blog and community."

I would point out that the self-awareness to more pro-actively address this issue up front in and of itself would be an act that changes that tone, but I see what you're driving towards as well.

I feel that once one gets a big enough following, a certain level of added responsibility must be exercised... whether that is done here will remain to be seen.

ch12

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 592
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2013, 02:30:16 PM »
I would posit that Mustachianism is a system of belief, just like Confucianism. Nobody really worships Confucius, but they listen to what he says and quote him all the time when making new decisions.

Some tenets of Mustachianism
  • You do not have to buy happiness with a burgeoning income via a soul-sucking job; money is not a goal in and of itself.
  • If you plan ahead and save, you can retire far, far earlier than normal people.
  • You must live mindfully and be environmentally conscious. (See: MMM's stances on commuting, biking, and walking as well as every budget/case study post)
  • You must not be in debt. Debt is sin, and you must be cleansed before you are a full Mustachian. (See the Stashless in Seattle post: Getting out of debt = "Escaping from any cauldron(s) filled with boiling lava and poisonous snakes.")
  • You must have fun and do what you enjoy.
  • You must not spend time worrying about things that are improbable and forever working towards illusory safety.

Not a full list, but definitely the tenets that I try to live by.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Mustachianism almost a religion?
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2013, 02:47:25 PM »
Dealing with it when encountering it is different than changing "the tone and direction of the blog and community."

I would point out that the self-awareness to more pro-actively address this issue up front in and of itself would be an act that changes that tone, but I see what you're driving towards as well.

I feel that once one gets a big enough following, a certain level of added responsibility must be exercised... whether that is done here will remain to be seen.

Fair enough.  I think we mostly agree.

I would posit that Mustachianism is a system of belief, just like Confucianism. Nobody really worships Confucius, but they listen to what he says and quote him all the time when making new decisions.

Some tenets of Mustachianism
  • You do not have to buy happiness with a burgeoning income via a soul-sucking job; money is not a goal in and of itself.
  • If you plan ahead and save, you can retire far, far earlier than normal people.
  • You must live mindfully and be environmentally conscious. (See: MMM's stances on commuting, biking, and walking as well as every budget/case study post)
  • You must not be in debt. Debt is sin, and you must be cleansed before you are a full Mustachian. (See the Stashless in Seattle post: Getting out of debt = "Escaping from any cauldron(s) filled with boiling lava and poisonous snakes.")
  • You must have fun and do what you enjoy.
  • You must not spend time worrying about things that are improbable and forever working towards illusory safety.

Not a full list, but definitely the tenets that I try to live by.

Some of these may be valid, or they may not be, but it goes back to a mindset of conscious, deliberate choice.

One of my favorite threads is the Our Mustachian Sacred Cows thread, in which seeming "tenants" are posted, tongue-in-cheek.  One (hopefully) sees through it and realizes that those ideas, perhaps seemingly reasonable at first glance (like your list), can often lead to absurdities.  Thus the idea to question, rather than accept.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.