Mustachian Sailing

[LLCoolDave]

Been reading a few sailing forums and stumbled across some cool info.

This guy is a badass. He lived aboard a 28ft all wood sailboat for 7 years. Boat was a piece of crap when purchased but he did all his own work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syJXrbWU1Aw
It's an 8 min doc.

Also a huge thread on sailing on $500 per month. $25k for boat, $20k for refit. These are boats that can cross oceans.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/cruising-on-500-per-month-40051.html

Also a great paper on the costs of cruising/living aboard a boat.
http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/costofcruising.pdf
It can be done for $8k per year.

[MoonShadow]

One of my post FIRE dreams is to cruise the Great Loop.  That can be done with way less than a trans-Atlantic capable boat.

[SailorGirl]

There's a second shoestring thread that's also very informative:  http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/shoestring-sailors-cruising-on-500-per-month-part-ii-79067.html

[LLCoolDave]

I read half the first thread and half the second. You can only learn so much through reading. Eventually you need to do!

[SailorGirl]

It's also helpful to search around for sailors that have published their budgets.  It's a good way to learn about expenses you know you'll never have and those you didn't think of.  Our plan is to aim for $500/month (each) which should be quite generous considering we're close to that now but still have cars and cell phone plans and pay for the marina.

[PFHC]

Ex-hubs and I lived aboard our 30' sailboat for awhile with plans to retire at 38 and cruise around the world. That didn't happen (divorced) but sailboat life can be very inexpensive. Other than marina live aboard fees (which can be high and hard to get) it's just the cost of the boat (and the endless repairs :-)) and food. If you  plan to cruise you can find free or low cost  moorings in many places. An older step-relative of mine lived on his boat for a number of years and did one or 2 circumnavigations of the globe solo and said it cost him around $500/month plus whatever repairs he had. He passed away (on his boat in Martinique) a few years ago but here's his blog with many pages in the older post sections about his experiences before he died. http://wanderlust3.thesailingchannel.tv/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=2

You seem like a pretty damn cool gal, Spartana. :)

[LLCoolDave]

I've accumulated some quotes about sailing and some about life in general that can be applied to sailing.

The dreams of the young are white hot. Given the slightest encouragement, they burn like wildfire. The young are stopped by lack of means not lack of dreams. John Kretchmer

The far horizon exerts a powerful pull on the disillusioned. Kretchmer

To thrive at sea, you must be responsible for who you are, not who you want to be.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

“The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content thence-forward with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place.”—Arthur Ransome from Racundra’s First Cruise, 1923

The American dream ain’t got a place for anyone that is trying to live free.

Work begets money problems begets work.

Robert Louis Stevenson once said that to travel hopefully is a better thing than arriving.

What's money? A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do. Bob Dylan

Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is not safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ~ Helen Keller

The last is my favorite.

[bobechs]

And don't forget:

"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned."

Boswell: Life of Johnson

[Sailor Sam]

'Gosh, that new mainsail was super cheap!' said no one, ever. Sailing is about moustachian as wrapping money around a brick and tossing it into the ocean.

I kid, I kid. There are lots of people who combine sailing with frugality. And sailing is indeed awesome. The green flash, crossing parties, golden dragons, swallow tattoos, and sucking shots from the washboard navels of young island dwellers. A fine lifestyle. But all in all, I prefer to let the govt own (and repair) the boats. Much more economical.

Yo Spartana, I read in some thread your name is a variant on Spartan. I always read it as a variant on Spar! Like, Spartana, the spar dweller.

[fattest_foot]

Timely thread! A week ago I had searched and there didn't seem to be any addressing this.

A few weeks ago I came across a blog of a couple who quit their jobs to sail around the Caribbean for a year (Laho Wind). Since, I've stumbled on several others with similar blogs. It's something I'm definitely interested in doing. I had thought it'd be a fun way to spend a year or two immediately post-FIRE (prior to settling anywhere), and it'd be relatively cheap. I figure somewhere in the $40-55k range for a sailboat, and then a conservative estimate of $2k/month in expenses.

The more I read, the less I want to wait for FIRE to do it though. One of Doom's (livingafi) recent posts about a gap year tempt me to do it in 4-5 years (FIRE in around 8-10 years).

[Abe]

I plan on doing that in a few years, but go for only 2-3 months around the Caribbean. Older 30-35 foot boats in good shape cost about as much as a luxury car, but you can live on them (probably can't live in a BMW!) I have my eye on a few here in Chicago, but don't have the time for it now.  The weather in the Caribbean makes it an idle place for cruising. The rain is fairly predictable, and the weather overall is much more forgiving than trans-oceanic passages. If you stay away from the usual tourist spots, mooring fees are fairly low. One will definitely need to learn how to do basic repairs, as getting help from local shops there can be very expensive!

[Le Poisson]

I had the dream to drop out and cruise. My wife didn't like the idea so we compromised and I got a cheap little catalina 25 to go sailing on instead.

Slip fees for that boat run around $450/month here in Toronto
Annual launch and haul out are an additional $600 +/-
Bottom wash, VC-17 and launch prep add on another $300 per year
Routine maintenance another $1000 per year easy. (lights, wiring, wash, pumpouts, battery maintenance)
Unexpected items add on another $2500/yr (complete re-rig, torn main sail, keel rebuild due to grounding, etc.)

As a hobby thats damned expensive, but as a house? Downright reasonable. I've often said that if I were a bachelor, I'd buy an old tub and move aboard, then let it rot in the slip. As long as I'm not paying for the maintenance on it and replacing sails and rigging, the boat is a free house, the slip fees are less than property tax, and around here they include water and hydro.

 For my purposes, this would be just about perfect: http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Morgan-46-2798069/Sint-Maarten-%28DUTCH-PART%29#.VfCTCxHBwXA

Sell the mast and rigging for enough to patch-repair the FG, sell off the engine for more space down below. Sew some cusions, settle in and enjoy. If I ever decide I really do need to go see the world, I can slam a Volvo Saildrive through the hull and re-rig her. But more than likely, you'll find me at the yacht club bar.

[MoonShadow]

'Gosh, that new mainsail was super cheap!' said no one, ever.

Cheap compared to what?  Compared to an engine, the fuel to push it, and the industry required to maintain it; even the most high tech sailcloth made by professional sail makers is cheap.  But even with sails, there are much cheaper & much more sustainable ways to do it.  I've seen junk sails made from PVC pipe and blue plastic tarps.  Ugly, but effective; and a DIY skill that can be mastered in a week or two.  A true mustascian sailor isn't looking to buy the fastest boat that can sail from one island to the next, but the one that can do it safely and reliably.  A full displacement hull over a semi-planing clipper.  6 knots using an auto-pilot and a good book on a gentle reach, versus 12+ knots close-hauled in a blow.  A homemade storm drogue and a nap versus running desperately in front of a storm, hoping that high tech sailcloth can take the strain, and so can your mast.  Personally, Quidnon is my dream boat....

http://quidnon.blogspot.com

[Sailor Sam]

Cheap compared to what?  Compared to an engine, the fuel to push it, and the industry required to maintain it; even the most high tech sailcloth made by professional sail makers is cheap.  But even with sails, there are much cheaper & much more sustainable ways to do it.  I've seen junk sails made from PVC pipe and blue plastic tarps.  Ugly, but effective; and a DIY skill that can be mastered in a week or two.  A true mustascian sailor isn't looking to buy the fastest boat that can sail from one island to the next, but the one that can do it safely and reliably.  A full displacement hull over a semi-planing clipper.  6 knots using an auto-pilot and a good book on a gentle reach, versus 12+ knots close-hauled in a blow.  A homemade storm drogue and a nap versus running desperately in front of a storm, hoping that high tech sailcloth can take the strain, and so can your mast.  Personally, Quidnon is my dream boat....

http://quidnon.blogspot.com

Sheesh, I was being flippant. Why lecture me?

[MoonShadow]

Cheap compared to what?  Compared to an engine, the fuel to push it, and the industry required to maintain it; even the most high tech sailcloth made by professional sail makers is cheap.  But even with sails, there are much cheaper & much more sustainable ways to do it.  I've seen junk sails made from PVC pipe and blue plastic tarps.  Ugly, but effective; and a DIY skill that can be mastered in a week or two.  A true mustascian sailor isn't looking to buy the fastest boat that can sail from one island to the next, but the one that can do it safely and reliably.  A full displacement hull over a semi-planing clipper.  6 knots using an auto-pilot and a good book on a gentle reach, versus 12+ knots close-hauled in a blow.  A homemade storm drogue and a nap versus running desperately in front of a storm, hoping that high tech sailcloth can take the strain, and so can your mast.  Personally, Quidnon is my dream boat....

http://quidnon.blogspot.com

Sheesh, I was being flippant. Why lecture me?

Sorry.  I'm in a mood, and I just got moving an couldn't stop.  It's a character flaw.

[Sailor Sam]

All right, apology accepted. I hope your day improves.

[likeavision]

This thread seems to be less about sailing and more about living aboard a sailboat.  But, if you're looking to just get out and enjoy the water, this is only $75/year:

http://www.singlesonsailboats.org/

All the fun, none of the hassles of ownership.

[LLCoolDave]

Another good way to sail on the cheap is at nearly every marina there will be guy that has several boats and for $100 per month you can take his boat out whenever you like (with proper crew). They will do this just to cover their slip fees.

[Cookie78]

This thread seems to be less about sailing and more about living aboard a sailboat.  But, if you're looking to just get out and enjoy the water, this is only $75/year:

http://www.singlesonsailboats.org/

All the fun, none of the hassles of ownership.

^This. You can pretty much crew (i.e. butt ballast :-)) for free on a sailboat just about anywhere - short term (day trips, local races, etc...) to worldwide long term cruising. Almost every Marina, sail mag or website, and every hostel near a sailing area will have ads looking for crew. Usually all you have to pay for is your own way to the boat and a return if going far and you no longer want to crew with that boat, and some $$'s for shared food. One way to travel the world full time without spending much money. Of course you may end up with the captain and/or crew from hell and be stuck somewhere with them until you can get to a port, but I think most captains are probably OK.  Just google crewing opportunities for list of boats looking for crew all over the world. This also includes yachts and other power boats where someone else will foot the fuel bill.

Awesome! I got bit by the sailing bug a few years ago and then let that dream drift away for a couple years mostly because cost and because I'm stuck so far away from the ocean. Today, because of another thread, I'm back to dreaming of sailing. I don't need my own boat, but I'd love to crew occasionally for short term trips and longer term trips with the right people once I'm FIREd and my dog has passed on. This world has such an abundance of opportunities it amazes me. :D