Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[Metric Mouse]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

[theadvicist]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

I still don't understand. How can that possibly be the case when he was explicit that he borrowed the money to fund a wedding?

[marty998]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

It's a brave man who would value his bride in basis point terms.

[Metric Mouse]

What about on a tax-adjusted basis?  :D

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/taxes/should-i-divorce-high-income-spouse-for-tax-purposes/msg1105792/#msg1105792

[Bracken_Joy]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

I still don't understand. How can that possibly be the case when he was explicit that he borrowed the money to fund a wedding?

I think I get what they're trying to say. Here's an example:

Wedding costs $20k. Advisor *has* $20k in the bank for the wedding. But, he can finance the wedding at like... 1.99%. He is expecting market returns of 5% out of that $20k he already has. So, he invests it, takes the loan at the lower rate, and nets 3.01% yield on those funds while paying the minimums. Comes out ahead.

That's how I took that to mean, anyway. All those numbers are complete BS by the way, just trying to illustrate the concept.

[pbkmaine]

My Mustachian problem today is wishing I had come to my senses sooner. My former financial advisor, whom I had to email about some money that still hasn't transferred to Vanguard, mentioned that he is taking out a loan to finance his wedding. :-o And this guy was giving me financial advice...!

Rather than having your financial advisor push it out to Vanguard, try calling Vanguard and see if they can pull it in themselves. Vanguard has the incentive; your financial advisor does not.

[Giro]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

I still don't understand. How can that possibly be the case when he was explicit that he borrowed the money to fund a wedding?

I think I get what they're trying to say. Here's an example:

Wedding costs $20k. Advisor *has* $20k in the bank for the wedding. But, he can finance the wedding at like... 1.99%. He is expecting market returns of 5% out of that $20k he already has. So, he invests it, takes the loan at the lower rate, and nets 3.01% yield on those funds while paying the minimums. Comes out ahead.

That's how I took that to mean, anyway. All those numbers are complete BS by the way, just trying to illustrate the concept.

And then use the wedding gifts to pay off the loan.  Seems like a good idea to me since it's fairly short term loan.

[Playing with Fire UK]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

I still don't understand. How can that possibly be the case when he was explicit that he borrowed the money to fund a wedding?

I think I get what they're trying to say. Here's an example:

Wedding costs $20k. Advisor *has* $20k in the bank for the wedding. But, he can finance the wedding at like... 1.99%. He is expecting market returns of 5% out of that $20k he already has. So, he invests it, takes the loan at the lower rate, and nets 3.01% yield on those funds while paying the minimums. Comes out ahead.

That's how I took that to mean, anyway. All those numbers are complete BS by the way, just trying to illustrate the concept.

But if that's what the advisor was doing it would be weird to say 'he is taking out a loan to finance his wedding'. It would be far more descriptive to say 'taking cheap wedding finance to invest.'

And even if this wise advisor was so savvy, if someone is offering you cheap financing it's because they are planning to rip you off at some point. Maybe you are over-paying for your white dress party or maybe there is penalty interest if you miss a payment but you don't get that kind of financing without there being a catch somewhere.

Must we always be so ready to distrust that our fellow Mustachian is telling us the truth? That s/he would feed us a web of lies about savvy financial advisors making shit financial decisions just for our amusement while harming no-one?

[GreenSheep]

My Mustachian problem today is wishing I had come to my senses sooner. My former financial advisor, whom I had to email about some money that still hasn't transferred to Vanguard, mentioned that he is taking out a loan to finance his wedding. :-o And this guy was giving me financial advice...!

Rather than having your financial advisor push it out to Vanguard, try calling Vanguard and see if they can pull it in themselves. Vanguard has the incentive; your financial advisor does not.

I did that first. 10 months ago. And again yesterday. And several times in between. We're down to 2% of my funds remaining un-transferred, so I'm almost there. The problem is that some of my money was in some crazy fund that you can only sell quarterly, and even then only a percentage of it, so my former advisor has been selling it quarterly and then Vanguard sweeps the cash over; however the automatic sweep only happens for 6 months after the initial transfer request, and then I end up having to call everyone to make it happen each quarter.

[Dollar Slice]

I saw an article about a sales-tax-free weekend coming up, and thought to myself: Oh! That's a good money-saving opportunity. Let's see, what do I need that I would normally pay sales tax on?

And I couldn't think of anything.

[gggggg]

I paid off my house a couple of months ago. My insurance co is having a hard time setting up direct drafts because they are so used to doing it through escrow. They had to put me on hold numerous times and ask around the office on how to set it up...

[dragoncar]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

I still don't understand. How can that possibly be the case when he was explicit that he borrowed the money to fund a wedding?

Money is fungible.  I took out a loan to finance my house.  I also have enough in investments to have bought it in cash but I didn't want to liquidate.  Maybe this guy has a lot of positions he doesn't want to or can't quickly liquidate.  He's not going to explain this to you in unnecesarry detail ("I'm taking out a loan to pay for my wedding because my investments blah blah blah") when he can make the simple but accurate statement "I'm taking out a loan to finance my wedding".

 Financing something doesn't mean it costs more than your net worth.  It just means you borrow money to pay for it.

[RetiredAt63]

I've always done my house insurance separate from the bank mortgage, both house and car are with the same company.  I have direct transfer from my bank account, wasn't at all hard to set up, and no extra charge.

I paid off my house a couple of months ago. My insurance co is having a hard time setting up direct drafts because they are so used to doing it through escrow. They had to put me on hold numerous times and ask around the office on how to set it up...

[Sibley]

I've always done my house insurance separate from the bank mortgage, both house and car are with the same company.  I have direct transfer from my bank account, wasn't at all hard to set up, and no extra charge.

I paid off my house a couple of months ago. My insurance co is having a hard time setting up direct drafts because they are so used to doing it through escrow. They had to put me on hold numerous times and ask around the office on how to set it up...

Some banks/areas may require you to do the escrow option. Same with property taxes. When you pay off the mortgage, no longer applies.

[theadvicist]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

I still don't understand. How can that possibly be the case when he was explicit that he borrowed the money to fund a wedding?

Money is fungible.  I took out a loan to finance my house.  I also have enough in investments to have bought it in cash but I didn't want to liquidate.  Maybe this guy has a lot of positions he doesn't want to or can't quickly liquidate.  He's not going to explain this to you in unnecesarry detail ("I'm taking out a loan to pay for my wedding because my investments blah blah blah") when he can make the simple but accurate statement "I'm taking out a loan to finance my wedding".

 Financing something doesn't mean it costs more than your net worth.  It just means you borrow money to pay for it.

No, I understand the principle behind it.

I don't understand why people can't take people at their word.

He said he was borrowing money for a wedding. We are laughing at him for that decision. Yes, there could have been a million different backstories. But he said, wedding, so I chose to just believe wedding.

[frugalnacho]

Meaning his money is returning gains in excess of the interest on the loans.

I still don't understand. How can that possibly be the case when he was explicit that he borrowed the money to fund a wedding?

Money is fungible.  I took out a loan to finance my house.  I also have enough in investments to have bought it in cash but I didn't want to liquidate.  Maybe this guy has a lot of positions he doesn't want to or can't quickly liquidate.  He's not going to explain this to you in unnecesarry detail ("I'm taking out a loan to pay for my wedding because my investments blah blah blah") when he can make the simple but accurate statement "I'm taking out a loan to finance my wedding".

 Financing something doesn't mean it costs more than your net worth.  It just means you borrow money to pay for it.

No, I understand the principle behind it.

I don't understand why people can't take people at their word.

He said he was borrowing money for a wedding. We are laughing at him for that decision. Yes, there could have been a million different backstories. But he said, wedding, so I chose to just believe wedding.

dragoncar's point is that money is fungible and if you have ANY debt at all you can easily substitute any of your spending in that.  You have a mortgage and yet just ordered pizza? For all practical purposes you just financed your pizza, even though the mortgage is on your house and you paid cash for the pizza.  What practical difference would it have been if you paid $20 cash on your mortgage, and then took out another $20 mortgage on the pizza you just bought?

[theadvicist]

dragoncar's point is that money is fungible and if you have ANY debt at all you can easily substitute any of your spending in that.  You have a mortgage and yet just ordered pizza? For all practical purposes you just financed your pizza, even though the mortgage is on your house and you paid cash for the pizza.  What practical difference would it have been if you paid $20 cash on your mortgage, and then took out another $20 mortgage on the pizza you just bought?

Again, I understand the principle.

But the original story was: a financial advisor (ha!) told someone he borrowed money to finance a wedding. I am taking him at his word that he borrowed a bunch of money, and spanked it all on a wedding. That is laughable (to us).

Yes, anyone on this board who had a mortgage and instead of paying it down spent money on a wedding was, in effect, 'financing' a wedding. But that's not nearly as comical.

This thread is literally labelled 'just for fun'. I was trying to make the point (badly, obviously), that coming up with lots of alternative theories, that, in reality, aren't all that likely (such as a guy who told someone he is borrowing money for a wedding, really borrowing it to invest for higher returns) takes the fun out of it.

But now I realise I am taking more fun out of it than anyone.

But just so we're clear I don't need anyone to explain the concept to me anymore. I understand the maths. I just don't understand human beings.

[BTDretire]

I just don't understand human beings.

LOL.

btw, simple antimustachian financial move, "borrow money for a wedding"
Also, financial planners are there to earn a living, using your money.

[infogoon]

btw, simple antimustachian financial move, "borrow money for a wedding"

It really is. I know a number of people whose wedding debt outlasted the marriage.

[G-dog]

I just don't understand human beings.

No one does....

[dragoncar]

I guess I just don't understand what you mean by "take people at their word" since I completely believe he's financing his wedding.  I'm not disbelieving that.  I just don't think that constitutes a mustachian people problem.  We aren't in the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy.

[GreenSheep]

The "Mustachian people problem" part is that it twists the knife. If he hadn't said that, I wouldn't feel like such an idiot for waiting so long to get rid of him. Most non-Mustachians don't go around having those thoughts. But mostly, I just wanted to share with people who would understand. Just shoot me for putting it in the "wrong" thread.

[Aelias]

Here's one:

I have enough FU money that I thinking about quitting my job at the slightest provocation.

[AlwaysLearningToSave]

For about a year and a half now, we have used the American Express Blue Cash Preferred cash-back credit card for almost all of our purchases, earning 3% cash back on groceries, 2% on gas, and 1% on everything else with no minimum fee.  Nowadays I am getting bombarded with offers to sign up for different Amex cards, which I suspect is due to my account being flagged as one they don't make money on.  Most of the offers involve high annual fees and benefits that don't appeal to me.   

[frugalnacho]

The "Mustachian people problem" part is that it twists the knife. If he hadn't said that, I wouldn't feel like such an idiot for waiting so long to get rid of him. Most non-Mustachians don't go around having those thoughts. But mostly, I just wanted to share with people who would understand. Just shoot me for putting it in the "wrong" thread.

Hey GreenSheep, you forgot that a major MMM People problem is that you have to be prepared to have anything you post here completely shredded and analyzed and often declared that you are wrong.  You say fire trucks are red?  This group will provide facts and figures indicating that nowadays yellow is preferred for various socio-economic and investing returns reasons.  The best part is you can end up considering angles you never thought of before and get a thick skin while you are at it.  Get your character built here for free!   ;-)

Total mischaracterization of most forum members.

[MissNancyPryor]

I see what you did there!  Thank you for the instant example.

[markbike528CBX]

FICO score plummeting from 850 to 825 in ONE month.  The end of the world as we know it it nigh!
<runs in circles, screaming and shouting, Aaaaaaaah!!> 
bragging aside, it _was_ quite a shock. 
Mustachians and fellow travelers are the only people who could possibly call this a shock.

Expecting it to drop further after canceling a redundant travel credit card (already got the miles, don't want the annual fee).

[dragoncar]

The "Mustachian people problem" part is that it twists the knife. If he hadn't said that, I wouldn't feel like such an idiot for waiting so long to get rid of him. Most non-Mustachians don't go around having those thoughts. But mostly, I just wanted to share with people who would understand. Just shoot me for putting it in the "wrong" thread.

Hey GreenSheep, you forgot that a major MMM People problem is that you have to be prepared to have anything you post here completely shredded and analyzed and often declared that you are wrong.  You say fire trucks are red?  This group will provide facts and figures indicating that nowadays yellow is preferred for various socio-economic and investing returns reasons.  The best part is you can end up considering angles you never thought of before and get a thick skin while you are at it.  Get your character built here for free!   ;-)

Total mischaracterization of most forum members.

We don't give a shit about fire truck colors, but we have a thing for boxes

[Beaker]

You say fire trucks are red?

WRONG. Jeez, how can you be so wrong? Airport fire trucks aren't red!

;)

[AlwaysLearningToSave]

For about a year and a half now, we have used the American Express Blue Cash Preferred cash-back credit card for almost all of our purchases, earning 3% cash back on groceries, 2% on gas, and 1% on everything else with no minimum fee.  Nowadays I am getting bombarded with offers to sign up for different Amex cards, which I suspect is due to my account being flagged as one they don't make money on.  Most of the offers involve high annual fees and benefits that don't appeal to me.

The MMM forum is here to correct you... either you have the Preferred, which is 6% groceries, 3% gas and a $75 annual fee, or you have Everyday, which is 3% groceries and 2% gas? Now you have a real Mustachian People Problem!

(My MPP was - do I pay the annual fee or downgrade? Turns out we spend enough on groceries to justify keeping it - about $500 / month translates to $360 cash back, $285 net, whereas 3% would've been $180 net, and my wife also uses it for gas which pushes us a little higher, overall. Though MPP #2 is - do I try to get my wife to use multiple cards, like my Sallie Mae 5% on gas? But then will we exceed the $250/month maximum on gasoline? Probably not but the 2 cards thing probably won't happen for now.)

Ah, yes.  I can always count on the forum to tell me when I'm wrong! 

I have the Everyday card.  The Preferred card is the only offer I've gotten that is actually tempting.  I'm pretty sure I would come out ahead but I don't know if I could convince my wife to change, as she already thinks our finance arrangements are too complicated and she probably would not respond well to my suggesting we switch to a different credit card anytime soon.  Win some, lose some. 

[Shalamar]

I went to Costco recently to buy one thing.   They didn't have it, so I went to leave.   Y'all, it is really difficult to navigate yourself out of Costco when you haven't bought anything!   I had to "excuse me" "sorry" "coming through" my way through a lineup of people waiting to pay.  There was simply no other way.

I got a weird look from the receipt checker guy at the exit, too.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I went to Costco recently to buy one thing.   They didn't have it, so I went to leave.   Y'all, it is really difficult to navigate yourself out of Costco when you haven't bought anything!   I had to "excuse me" "sorry" "coming through" my way through a lineup of people waiting to pay.  There was simply no other way.

I got a weird look from the receipt checker guy at the exit, too.

It is also super-hard to take a bathroom break (I have small children) because the bathroom is on the other side of the lines.

[TomTX]

I went to Costco recently to buy one thing.   They didn't have it, so I went to leave.   Y'all, it is really difficult to navigate yourself out of Costco when you haven't bought anything!   I had to "excuse me" "sorry" "coming through" my way through a lineup of people waiting to pay.  There was simply no other way.

I got a weird look from the receipt checker guy at the exit, too.

It is also super-hard to take a bathroom break (I have small children) because the bathroom is on the other side of the lines.

Geez, both of you - just walk back out the entrance. If you or your progeney need to pee/poop/diaper change, do a U-turn and go in the exit.

IDGAF what the sign says, I'm using efficient routing.

[johnny847]

For about a year and a half now, we have used the American Express Blue Cash Preferred cash-back credit card for almost all of our purchases, earning 3% cash back on groceries, 2% on gas, and 1% on everything else with no minimum fee.  Nowadays I am getting bombarded with offers to sign up for different Amex cards, which I suspect is due to my account being flagged as one they don't make money on.  Most of the offers involve high annual fees and benefits that don't appeal to me.

The MMM forum is here to correct you... either you have the Preferred, which is 6% groceries, 3% gas and a $75 annual fee, or you have Everyday, which is 3% groceries and 2% gas? Now you have a real Mustachian People Problem!

(My MPP was - do I pay the annual fee or downgrade? Turns out we spend enough on groceries to justify keeping it - about $500 / month translates to $360 cash back, $285 net, whereas 3% would've been $180 net, and my wife also uses it for gas which pushes us a little higher, overall. Though MPP #2 is - do I try to get my wife to use multiple cards, like my Sallie Mae 5% on gas? But then will we exceed the $250/month maximum on gasoline? Probably not but the 2 cards thing probably won't happen for now.)

Ah, yes.  I can always count on the forum to tell me when I'm wrong! 

I have the Everyday card.  The Preferred card is the only offer I've gotten that is actually tempting.  I'm pretty sure I would come out ahead but I don't know if I could convince my wife to change, as she already thinks our finance arrangements are too complicated and she probably would not respond well to my suggesting we switch to a different credit card anytime soon.  Win some, lose some.

Since we're correcting each other, I would like to say...

Please don't say "Everyday" card to refer to the Blue Cash Everyday. Amex offers the Blue Cash Everyday, Blue Cash Preferred, Everyday, and Everyday Preferred. I know you actually meant Blue Cash Everyday, but the Amex Everyday is an entirely different product!

[johnny847]

The "Mustachian people problem" part is that it twists the knife. If he hadn't said that, I wouldn't feel like such an idiot for waiting so long to get rid of him. Most non-Mustachians don't go around having those thoughts. But mostly, I just wanted to share with people who would understand. Just shoot me for putting it in the "wrong" thread.

Hey GreenSheep, you forgot that a major MMM People problem is that you have to be prepared to have anything you post here completely shredded and analyzed and often declared that you are wrong.  You say fire trucks are red?  This group will provide facts and figures indicating that nowadays yellow is preferred for various socio-economic and investing returns reasons.  The best part is you can end up considering angles you never thought of before and get a thick skin while you are at it.  Get your character built here for free!   ;-)

Total mischaracterization of most forum members.

We don't give a shit about fire truck colors, but we have a thing for boxes

Especially black boxes. Which are typically orange.

[LennStar]

I recently found out foam can be red. Strange things there are on this world.

[CarrieWillard]

I can't take advantage of high interest checking accounts because I don't make enough purchases.

I know right!!

[CarrieWillard]

My paid-for-with-cash 15 seater van (7 kids) is carjack proof (an important concern in Atlanta!).

The driver's side door does not open. We've tried to fix it ourselves but can't, the auto repair shop says the part we need can't be purchased, and we're too busy to look for it at the junk yard.

People assume we're poor (because of the kids and older cars?) even though we have $5,000 of disposable income every month that goes into savings (for a down payment for our first home). So they give us stuff all the time. People give us food, clothing, shoes, books. It's funny. Most of it I just re-donate.

[Giro]

This is completely ridiculous.....BUT

A big concert venue is having a food drive today for ANY person who wants to stop in.  It is about 5 miles from my job and I'm super tempted to go get some free food. 

[johnny847]

I can't take advantage of high interest checking accounts because I don't make enough purchases.

I know right!!

I just send a friend money using the rewards checking debit card via Square Cash. He also has an account and sends money back.
Unfortunately this can't be automated. Oh well.

[yuka]

My employer put me in a hotel for two months. They're paying for the hotel and giving me a bunch of money for food.

My problem is I don't know how to deal with the added income and reduced regular expenses without upsetting my accounting. I guess I just have to throw out (what could have been) two months of perfectly good data-collecting time.

[sw1tch]

For about a year and a half now, we have used the American Express Blue Cash Preferred cash-back credit card for almost all of our purchases, earning 3% cash back on groceries, 2% on gas, and 1% on everything else with no minimum fee.  Nowadays I am getting bombarded with offers to sign up for different Amex cards, which I suspect is due to my account being flagged as one they don't make money on.  Most of the offers involve high annual fees and benefits that don't appeal to me.

The MMM forum is here to correct you... either you have the Preferred, which is 6% groceries, 3% gas and a $75 annual fee, or you have Everyday, which is 3% groceries and 2% gas? Now you have a real Mustachian People Problem!

(My MPP was - do I pay the annual fee or downgrade? Turns out we spend enough on groceries to justify keeping it - about $500 / month translates to $360 cash back, $285 net, whereas 3% would've been $180 net, and my wife also uses it for gas which pushes us a little higher, overall. Though MPP #2 is - do I try to get my wife to use multiple cards, like my Sallie Mae 5% on gas? But then will we exceed the $250/month maximum on gasoline? Probably not but the 2 cards thing probably won't happen for now.)

This post made me think of my MPP.  I've signed my wife and I up for multiple cards including the Sallie Mae and Citi Double Cash (among a few others).  I cannot for the life of me get my wife to remember which card to use for which situation.  Basically, Sallie Mae for groceries, gas and Amazon; Citi card for everything else.

I noticed (since I tend to check Personal Capital/Mint daily) that she used the Citi card to buy groceries.  At first it kind of upset me because I have mentioned this to her at least 50 times before to use the Sallie Mae for groceries!  But, calmed myself down when I calculated the 3% difference would have equaled out to something like 69 cents difference in rewards.

[aetherie]

This post made me think of my MPP.  I've signed my wife and I up for multiple cards including the Sallie Mae and Citi Double Cash (among a few others).  I cannot for the life of me get my wife to remember which card to use for which situation.  Basically, Sallie Mae for groceries, gas and Amazon; Citi card for everything else.

I noticed (since I tend to check Personal Capital/Mint daily) that she used the Citi card to buy groceries.  At first it kind of upset me because I have mentioned this to her at least 50 times before to use the Sallie Mae for groceries!  But, calmed myself down when I calculated the 3% difference would have equaled out to something like 69 cents difference in rewards.

I also have trouble remembering which card to use where - so I took a Sharpie and wrote on the back of each one "groceries", "gas", etc.

[dragoncar]

This post made me think of my MPP.  I've signed my wife and I up for multiple cards including the Sallie Mae and Citi Double Cash (among a few others).  I cannot for the life of me get my wife to remember which card to use for which situation.  Basically, Sallie Mae for groceries, gas and Amazon; Citi card for everything else.

I noticed (since I tend to check Personal Capital/Mint daily) that she used the Citi card to buy groceries.  At first it kind of upset me because I have mentioned this to her at least 50 times before to use the Sallie Mae for groceries!  But, calmed myself down when I calculated the 3% difference would have equaled out to something like 69 cents difference in rewards.

I also have trouble remembering which card to use where - so I took a Sharpie and wrote on the back of each one "groceries", "gas", etc.

The rotating categories are the worst.  I keep a list on my phone of the quarterly categories since I often forget.  I like the idea of putting in on your card-- I'd probably use a postit note.

Hey I often use postit notes for things like this and cut off the no sticky part so it's just the sticky part and won't rip off but is easily removed a few months later.  Do they sell post its that are all sticky on the back side?  If not, I've got a billion dollar idea!

[Cannot Wait!]

Of course they do - it's called tape!

[Werthless]

Of course they do - it's called tape!

What will they think of next?

[Venturing]

When you give your 2 year old a play kitchen for her birthday and she is adament that it has come from the library. Trying to explain the idea that sometimes you buy things from shops and then get to keep them.

[With This Herring]

*snip*
Hey I often use postit notes for things like this and cut off the no sticky part so it's just the sticky part and won't rip off but is easily removed a few months later.  Do they sell post its that are all sticky on the back side?  If not, I've got a billion dollar idea!

Why, indeed they do!!!
2x2 "All Sticky" notes
3x3 "All Sticky" notes
Sticky notes tape
Washi tape

[Cressida]

*snip*
Hey I often use postit notes for things like this and cut off the no sticky part so it's just the sticky part and won't rip off but is easily removed a few months later.  Do they sell post its that are all sticky on the back side?  If not, I've got a billion dollar idea!

Why, indeed they do!!!
2x2 "All Sticky" notes
3x3 "All Sticky" notes
Sticky notes tape
Washi tape

OMG, that is brilliant.

[dragoncar]

Of course they do - it's called tape!

What will they think of next?

I'll kindly assume you are joking, but tape hardly has the texture of a post-it note.  In fact, I've never seen a tape that was easy to write on.  Masking tape would be the closest, but it still leaves a residue  after it's been on just a few days.