Author Topic: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)  (Read 3694984 times)

GreenSheep

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8400 on: February 05, 2021, 05:55:04 PM »
I was actually trying to say that you can be LESS cautious than the people who are setting a timer to remind them to put the food into the fridge. You can just cook, scoop out what you want, throw the rest in the fridge, and go eat. No need to wait for it to cool before putting it in the fridge.
Yeah, not sure why anyone would want to put in more effort for something that is known to be less safe.

My primary objection to dropping a whole pot in the fridge is space and the energy used to cool it down. I don't have any objection to setting it on my back porch to cool though... I did miss GreenSheep's intent though. Sorry about that... That's not by any chance a reference to your college? Perhaps you know the story of the chicken water ice.

Uh... no? My name has nothing to do with anywhere I went to school. It's just that rather than being the black sheep, I am the green (financially savvy) sheep in my family.

Yeah, the USDA says you should divide a whole pot of something into multiple smaller containers... their reasoning is that it will cool down faster, but the side benefit is that it's easier to fit in the fridge. Although depending on where you live and the time of year, your back porch might be faster than the fridge!

I wonder if this "let it cool before you put it in the fridge" idea came about when refrigerators were much less efficient.

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8401 on: February 05, 2021, 06:10:17 PM »
That much debated soup is long gone.

I set an alarm to remind me to put dinner away last night after it cooled.

Rest easy.

I have come close to doing that a few times.  Now I leave the light over the stove on until the food has cooled enough to go in the fridge.  I turn all the lights off before I go to bed, so if the stove light is still on the food gets put away then.
Ha! Me, too! Lesson learned the hard way. Also had to teach DH that if that particular light was on that it Meant Something to me and to please leave it on.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8402 on: February 05, 2021, 06:29:31 PM »
Uh... no? My name has nothing to do with anywhere I went to school. It's just that rather than being the black sheep, I am the green (financially savvy) sheep in my family.

Yeah, the USDA says you should divide a whole pot of something into multiple smaller containers... their reasoning is that it will cool down faster, but the side benefit is that it's easier to fit in the fridge. Although depending on where you live and the time of year, your back porch might be faster than the fridge!

I wonder if this "let it cool before you put it in the fridge" idea came about when refrigerators were much less efficient.

Nice, I like that. The college I went to had a tradition involving a sheep someone had dyed green. I forget the details now.

The first refrigerator i remember having ran on propane! Maybe that's where I got the idea of not putting anything warm into from. We definitely did not open the the door and then think about what we wanted to eat.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8403 on: February 06, 2021, 04:10:46 AM »
I was actually trying to say that you can be LESS cautious than the people who are setting a timer to remind them to put the food into the fridge. You can just cook, scoop out what you want, throw the rest in the fridge, and go eat. No need to wait for it to cool before putting it in the fridge.
Yeah, not sure why anyone would want to put in more effort for something that is known to be less safe.

My primary objection to dropping a whole pot in the fridge is space and the energy used to cool it down. I don't have any objection to setting it on my back porch to cool though... I did miss GreenSheep's intent though. Sorry about that... That's not by any chance a reference to your college? Perhaps you know the story of the chicken water ice.

Uh... no? My name has nothing to do with anywhere I went to school. It's just that rather than being the black sheep, I am the green (financially savvy) sheep in my family.

Yeah, the USDA says you should divide a whole pot of something into multiple smaller containers... their reasoning is that it will cool down faster, but the side benefit is that it's easier to fit in the fridge. Although depending on where you live and the time of year, your back porch might be faster than the fridge!

I wonder if this "let it cool before you put it in the fridge" idea came about when refrigerators were much less efficient.
It's not only about energy costs. It is also about heating up the inside space. That may not be an issue with todays US-sized refrigerators since they contain enough space and more cooling capacity because of the sheer size - but back in the days when a refrigerator was a lot smaller and less insulated, a large amount of hot soup (like for 5 people) might have increased the whole inside by 10 degrees or more for 2 hours. Not good for the milk in the opened bottle!

rebel_quietude

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8404 on: February 07, 2021, 12:06:19 PM »
Apropos of nothing, today's MPP: I keep having to re-do long term financial projections because the market blows an 8% expected average return out of the water. Projected NW at retirement has increased dramatically since I first started plugging numbers into a compound interest calc in 2013.

ToTheMoon

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8405 on: February 07, 2021, 02:11:35 PM »
I was actually trying to say that you can be LESS cautious than the people who are setting a timer to remind them to put the food into the fridge. You can just cook, scoop out what you want, throw the rest in the fridge, and go eat. No need to wait for it to cool before putting it in the fridge.
Yeah, not sure why anyone would want to put in more effort for something that is known to be less safe.
My primary objection to dropping a whole pot in the fridge is space and the energy used to cool it down. I don't have any objection to setting it on my back porch to cool though... I did miss GreenSheep's intent though. Sorry about that... That's not by any chance a reference to your college? Perhaps you know the story of the chicken water ice.
Uh... no? My name has nothing to do with anywhere I went to school. It's just that rather than being the black sheep, I am the green (financially savvy) sheep in my family.

Yeah, the USDA says you should divide a whole pot of something into multiple smaller containers... their reasoning is that it will cool down faster, but the side benefit is that it's easier to fit in the fridge. Although depending on where you live and the time of year, your back porch might be faster than the fridge!

I wonder if this "let it cool before you put it in the fridge" idea came about when refrigerators were much less efficient.
It's not only about energy costs. It is also about heating up the inside space. That may not be an issue with todays US-sized refrigerators since they contain enough space and more cooling capacity because of the sheer size - but back in the days when a refrigerator was a lot smaller and less insulated, a large amount of hot soup (like for 5 people) might have increased the whole inside by 10 degrees or more for 2 hours. Not good for the milk in the opened bottle!

My 12-year-old GE fridge has a button along the top for just this - if you are knowingly putting something rather warm inside, you push the Turbo Cool button and I guess it cranks out a bit of extra cold for a while to offset the heat you have added.  I have never used it and forgotten about it completely until this thread. I am also notorious for leaving food out overnight - perhaps I should try it! :D

Morning Glory

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8406 on: February 07, 2021, 05:00:21 PM »
I was actually trying to say that you can be LESS cautious than the people who are setting a timer to remind them to put the food into the fridge. You can just cook, scoop out what you want, throw the rest in the fridge, and go eat. No need to wait for it to cool before putting it in the fridge.
Yeah, not sure why anyone would want to put in more effort for something that is known to be less safe.
My primary objection to dropping a whole pot in the fridge is space and the energy used to cool it down. I don't have any objection to setting it on my back porch to cool though... I did miss GreenSheep's intent though. Sorry about that... That's not by any chance a reference to your college? Perhaps you know the story of the chicken water ice.
Uh... no? My name has nothing to do with anywhere I went to school. It's just that rather than being the black sheep, I am the green (financially savvy) sheep in my family.

Yeah, the USDA says you should divide a whole pot of something into multiple smaller containers... their reasoning is that it will cool down faster, but the side benefit is that it's easier to fit in the fridge. Although depending on where you live and the time of year, your back porch might be faster than the fridge!

I wonder if this "let it cool before you put it in the fridge" idea came about when refrigerators were much less efficient.
It's not only about energy costs. It is also about heating up the inside space. That may not be an issue with todays US-sized refrigerators since they contain enough space and more cooling capacity because of the sheer size - but back in the days when a refrigerator was a lot smaller and less insulated, a large amount of hot soup (like for 5 people) might have increased the whole inside by 10 degrees or more for 2 hours. Not good for the milk in the opened bottle!

My 12-year-old GE fridge has a button along the top for just this - if you are knowingly putting something rather warm inside, you push the Turbo Cool button and I guess it cranks out a bit of extra cold for a while to offset the heat you have added.  I have never used it and forgotten about it completely until this thread. I am also notorious for leaving food out overnight - perhaps I should try it! :D

I will have to remember that for when I move someplace warm. It was -13F when I woke up today. I have been known to set stuff outside to cool it off.

Tardis81

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8407 on: February 08, 2021, 01:21:06 AM »
i probably have an iron stomach, lol.
My parents used to leave the cooked chili, bolognese sauce, soups out on the stove for up to two days. If it didn't fit in the fridge as is, pot and all, out it stayed until eaten.

i'm being more reasonable with my own cooking, but i'm not exactly keeping time for how long stuff takes to cool before it eventually gets stashed and cooled

Same. I leave food overnight on the stove all the time. Like my parents when I was growing up. Never had any problems, ever. The nature gave us senses and ability to identify bad food - if it smells bad or tastes sour, its bad. If it smells ok and tastes ok Ill eat it. I dont leave it out more then overnight or all day though - but 8-12 hours is fine.

maisymouser

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8408 on: February 08, 2021, 09:21:00 AM »
My Mustachian people problem- DH won't let me start prepping our taxes since we may be modestly over the upcoming stimulus check income limit if it is decreased to 100k. I typically enjoy doing taxes (it's a nice way to do a formal check-in on our income and look at the progress we've made career-wise and personally). Getting a refund early in the year is pretty nice too! So... I will exercise patience this year.

Our understanding is that if we file our 2020 taxes now, the gov't will base our stimulus check on the AGI reported therein, while if we receive a check based on our 2019 income we will not owe it back even if our 2020 AGI is higher than the income limits. At least, based on the previous stimulus bill rules...? Is that correct or are we misinterpreting?

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8409 on: February 08, 2021, 09:24:22 AM »
My Mustachian people problem- DH won't let me start prepping our taxes since we may be modestly over the upcoming stimulus check income limit if it is decreased to 100k. I typically enjoy doing taxes (it's a nice way to do a formal check-in on our income and look at the progress we've made career-wise and personally). Getting a refund early in the year is pretty nice too! So... I will exercise patience this year.

Our understanding is that if we file our 2020 taxes now, the gov't will base our stimulus check on the AGI reported therein, while if we receive a check based on our 2019 income we will not owe it back even if our 2020 AGI is higher than the income limits. At least, based on the previous stimulus bill rules...? Is that correct or are we misinterpreting?

I was under the impression that either way, when you file taxes for the year it will all be tried up. That is, you might get a stimulus check with this method, but if your are over the limit you will pay it back with your 2021 taxes. I could be wrong, I am not close to any cut offs and so have only gleaned what has been mentioned here and there, I haven't looked into any of it.

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8410 on: February 08, 2021, 09:40:14 AM »
My Mustachian people problem- DH won't let me start prepping our taxes since we may be modestly over the upcoming stimulus check income limit if it is decreased to 100k. I typically enjoy doing taxes (it's a nice way to do a formal check-in on our income and look at the progress we've made career-wise and personally). Getting a refund early in the year is pretty nice too! So... I will exercise patience this year.

Our understanding is that if we file our 2020 taxes now, the gov't will base our stimulus check on the AGI reported therein, while if we receive a check based on our 2019 income we will not owe it back even if our 2020 AGI is higher than the income limits. At least, based on the previous stimulus bill rules...? Is that correct or are we misinterpreting?

I was under the impression that either way, when you file taxes for the year it will all be tried up. That is, you might get a stimulus check with this method, but if your are over the limit you will pay it back with your 2021 taxes. I could be wrong, I am not close to any cut offs and so have only gleaned what has been mentioned here and there, I haven't looked into any of it.

For the first stimulus you are indeed wrong.  I havent checked the second and we cant know for the third until the bill is passed but Id be surprised if they changed the approach

Rhinodad

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8411 on: February 08, 2021, 09:45:11 AM »
Just to chime in...as a chef, you don't need to throw food away that has been left out for 2 hours at room temperature...that's 6 hours if it comes from a controlled environment (i.e. Cold storage at 39 or below, or cooked to the proper internal temp for that dish), and stays in a controlled environment (room temp would qualify)...as long as you don't then serve it again...would have to throw away after the 6 hours. If you keep it outside the danger zone, and document every 2 hours, you can then cool it effectively (taken from above 140 to below 70 in the first 2 hours, and then from 70 to below 40 over the next 4 hours), you can re-heat it for later use.

At home, if you are going to follow all the USDA rules (I don't), then you also can't use anything in the fridge opened for more than 7 days, and with some products less (Milk is 3 days open and dated). No one does that. If it doesn't smell or feel slimey, I'm cooking that stuff up and eating it.

merula

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8412 on: February 08, 2021, 04:02:44 PM »
My Mustachian people problem- DH won't let me start prepping our taxes since we may be modestly over the upcoming stimulus check income limit if it is decreased to 100k. I typically enjoy doing taxes (it's a nice way to do a formal check-in on our income and look at the progress we've made career-wise and personally). Getting a refund early in the year is pretty nice too! So... I will exercise patience this year.

Our understanding is that if we file our 2020 taxes now, the gov't will base our stimulus check on the AGI reported therein, while if we receive a check based on our 2019 income we will not owe it back even if our 2020 AGI is higher than the income limits. At least, based on the previous stimulus bill rules...? Is that correct or are we misinterpreting?

I was under the impression that either way, when you file taxes for the year it will all be tried up. That is, you might get a stimulus check with this method, but if your are over the limit you will pay it back with your 2021 taxes. I could be wrong, I am not close to any cut offs and so have only gleaned what has been mentioned here and there, I haven't looked into any of it.

For the first stimulus you are indeed wrong.  I havent checked the second and we cant know for the third until the bill is passed but Id be surprised if they changed the approach

Dragoncar is correct. From https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf:

Subtract line 16 from line 15. If zero or less, enter -0-. If line 16 is more than line 15, you dont have to pay back
the difference

Where line 16 is the Economic Impact Payments already received, and line 15 is the calculation of the Recovery Rebate Credit you would've earned.

I personally think that it's likely that any new stimulus will require people to file their 2020 taxes and not be based on 2019 or prior years. When the first round of stimulus was being debated, a lot of places had suddenly shut down with little to no plan to offer distanced or virtual services, but since we've had a year to plan, that's not really the case anymore. (For example, the VITA site where I do volunteer tax prep shut down completely last February, but this year there's a whole virtual infrastructure built out so we'll be doing returns again starting this week.)

Morning Glory

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8413 on: February 08, 2021, 07:39:18 PM »
This morning I was on a zoom call and someone mentioned being upset about what happened in Kansas City yesterday. I immediately thought there was a mass shooting or bombing that I hadn't heard about, until other people started laughing and I realized they were talking about the super bowl. I had totally forgotten about it.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8414 on: February 08, 2021, 08:09:04 PM »
This morning I was on a zoom call and someone mentioned being upset about what happened in Kansas City yesterday. I immediately thought there was a mass shooting or bombing that I hadn't heard about, until other people started laughing and I realized they were talking about the super bowl. I had totally forgotten about it.

What happened at the Super Bowl?  Besides one team winning and one team losing?  I didn't even realize it was in Kansas City, I had it in my head that it was in Florida. 

Paul der Krake

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8415 on: February 09, 2021, 02:10:25 AM »
It was in Florida. The NFL always picks a warm stadium for the benefit of their coddled guests. Nobody with enough money to attend wants anything to do with open air stadiums in Midwestern states in February.

Morning Glory

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8416 on: February 09, 2021, 03:56:49 AM »
This morning I was on a zoom call and someone mentioned being upset about what happened in Kansas City yesterday. I immediately thought there was a mass shooting or bombing that I hadn't heard about, until other people started laughing and I realized they were talking about the super bowl. I had totally forgotten about it.

What happened at the Super Bowl?  Besides one team winning and one team losing?  I didn't even realize it was in Kansas City, I had it in my head that it was in Florida.

I just looked it up. Kansas City was the losing team. The way the lady's voice sounded, I really thought there was a mass shooting for a minute.

I really don't get how people decide which team to like.

Steeze

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8417 on: February 09, 2021, 05:10:17 AM »
This morning I was on a zoom call and someone mentioned being upset about what happened in Kansas City yesterday. I immediately thought there was a mass shooting or bombing that I hadn't heard about, until other people started laughing and I realized they were talking about the super bowl. I had totally forgotten about it.

What happened at the Super Bowl?  Besides one team winning and one team losing?  I didn't even realize it was in Kansas City, I had it in my head that it was in Florida.

I just looked it up. Kansas City was the losing team. The way the lady's voice sounded, I really thought there was a mass shooting for a minute.

I really don't get how people decide which team to like.

If you bet money on the game the whole thing makes more sense.

megaschnauzer

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8418 on: February 09, 2021, 06:04:54 AM »
Letting food cool before putting it in the fridge is not necessary and in fact might be harmful. See the USDA guidelines here:

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/Leftovers_and_Food_Safety.pdf

"Bacteria grow rapidly between the temperatures of 40 F and 140 F. After food is safely cooked, hot food must be kept hot at 140 F or hotter to prevent bacterial growth. Within 2 hours of cooking food or holding it hot, leftovers must be refrigerated. Throw away all perishable foods that have been left at room temperature for more than 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature is over 90 F, such as at an outdoor picnic during summer)."

and

"To prevent bacterial growth, its important to cool food rapidly so it reaches as fast as possible the safe refrigerator-storage temperature of 40 F or below. To do this, divide large amounts of food into shallow containers. A big pot of soup, for example, will take a long time to cool, inviting bacteria to multiply and increasing the danger of foodborne illness. Instead, divide the pot of soup into smaller containers so it will cool quickly. Hot food can be placed directly in the refrigerator or be rapidly chilled in an ice or cold water bath before refrigerating.

so doesn't the reheating process kill all the bacteria?

megaschnauzer

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8419 on: February 09, 2021, 06:07:25 AM »
The little 30 year-old plastic wallet holding my credit card, licence, etc has almost fallen apart so I had to use a lot of duct tape to mend it. Should last another 30 years, much to my very fashionable sister's horror. She snatched it off me the last time we were out with friends and showed them all so they could have a good laugh. I didn't care, as I am the only one out of the group who has a paid-off house and doesn't need to work.

i've been making my own wallets out of old dog food bags and duct tape mostly just to see how well they hold up. the one i have now looks pathetic but i've been using it for almost 2 years. i actually got a compliment about it at one point but that was when it was new.

Jimbo

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8420 on: February 09, 2021, 06:31:38 AM »
The little 30 year-old plastic wallet holding my credit card, licence, etc has almost fallen apart so I had to use a lot of duct tape to mend it. Should last another 30 years, much to my very fashionable sister's horror. She snatched it off me the last time we were out with friends and showed them all so they could have a good laugh. I didn't care, as I am the only one out of the group who has a paid-off house and doesn't need to work.

i've been making my own wallets out of old dog food bags and duct tape mostly just to see how well they hold up. the one i have now looks pathetic but i've been using it for almost 2 years. i actually got a compliment about it at one point but that was when it was new.

Compliments said not sarcastically?... Ok, I am kidding, but there is definitely stigma (smell) associated with old dog food bags...

chaskavitch

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8421 on: February 09, 2021, 06:33:40 AM »
Letting food cool before putting it in the fridge is not necessary and in fact might be harmful. See the USDA guidelines here:

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/Leftovers_and_Food_Safety.pdf

"Bacteria grow rapidly between the temperatures of 40 F and 140 F. After food is safely cooked, hot food must be kept hot at 140 F or hotter to prevent bacterial growth. Within 2 hours of cooking food or holding it hot, leftovers must be refrigerated. Throw away all perishable foods that have been left at room temperature for more than 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature is over 90 F, such as at an outdoor picnic during summer)."

and

"To prevent bacterial growth, its important to cool food rapidly so it reaches as fast as possible the safe refrigerator-storage temperature of 40 F or below. To do this, divide large amounts of food into shallow containers. A big pot of soup, for example, will take a long time to cool, inviting bacteria to multiply and increasing the danger of foodborne illness. Instead, divide the pot of soup into smaller containers so it will cool quickly. Hot food can be placed directly in the refrigerator or be rapidly chilled in an ice or cold water bath before refrigerating.

so doesn't the reheating process kill all the bacteria?

Some bacteria produce spores that can survive the heating process and turn back into more bacteria later, and some bacteria actually produce toxins that aren't affected at all by heating.  Bacterial food intoxication is the kind of food poisoning that comes on pretty quickly, because it doesn't require the bacteria to replicate inside your body.  You're just eating toxins :(

rantk81

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8422 on: February 09, 2021, 06:46:55 AM »
Some bacteria produce spores that can survive the heating process and turn back into more bacteria later, and some bacteria actually produce toxins that aren't affected at all by heating.  Bacterial food intoxication is the kind of food poisoning that comes on pretty quickly, because it doesn't require the bacteria to replicate inside your body.  You're just eating toxins :(

I think I read something about rice being especially problematic in this regard.

That said, I generally leave my left-overs out for a couple of hours before putting it in the refrigerator.  I don't recall getting sick from it (yet!) :)

megaschnauzer

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8423 on: February 09, 2021, 06:54:46 AM »
Letting food cool before putting it in the fridge is not necessary and in fact might be harmful. See the USDA guidelines here:

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/Leftovers_and_Food_Safety.pdf

"Bacteria grow rapidly between the temperatures of 40 F and 140 F. After food is safely cooked, hot food must be kept hot at 140 F or hotter to prevent bacterial growth. Within 2 hours of cooking food or holding it hot, leftovers must be refrigerated. Throw away all perishable foods that have been left at room temperature for more than 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature is over 90 F, such as at an outdoor picnic during summer)."

and

"To prevent bacterial growth, its important to cool food rapidly so it reaches as fast as possible the safe refrigerator-storage temperature of 40 F or below. To do this, divide large amounts of food into shallow containers. A big pot of soup, for example, will take a long time to cool, inviting bacteria to multiply and increasing the danger of foodborne illness. Instead, divide the pot of soup into smaller containers so it will cool quickly. Hot food can be placed directly in the refrigerator or be rapidly chilled in an ice or cold water bath before refrigerating.

so doesn't the reheating process kill all the bacteria?

Some bacteria produce spores that can survive the heating process and turn back into more bacteria later, and some bacteria actually produce toxins that aren't affected at all by heating.  Bacterial food intoxication is the kind of food poisoning that comes on pretty quickly, because it doesn't require the bacteria to replicate inside your body.  You're just eating toxins :(

wow. my gf is notorious for leaving food out overnight and i have a history of an iffy stomach. she's trying to poison me!

merula

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8424 on: February 09, 2021, 07:06:35 AM »
It was in Florida. The NFL always picks a warm stadium for the benefit of their coddled guests. Nobody with enough money to attend wants anything to do with open air stadiums in Midwestern states in February.

The 2018 Super Bowl held in Minneapolis would beg to differ.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8425 on: February 09, 2021, 08:10:26 AM »
It was in Florida. The NFL always picks a warm stadium for the benefit of their coddled guests. Nobody with enough money to attend wants anything to do with open air stadiums in Midwestern states in February.

The 2018 Super Bowl held in Minneapolis would beg to differ.

And the 1996 Grey Cup.  Hamilton isn't considered heavy winter country like, say, Edmonton is.

The 84th Grey Cup, also known as The Snow Bowl, was the 1996 Grey Cup Canadian Football League championship game played between the Toronto Argonauts and the Edmonton Eskimos at Ivor Wynne Stadium in Hamilton, Ontario.  The temperature at game time was -10 C, with 20 km/h winds and heavy snow. Tractors had to remove snow from the field prior to the game, as well as at halftime.

Rhinodad

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8426 on: February 09, 2021, 10:21:12 AM »
Letting food cool before putting it in the fridge is not necessary and in fact might be harmful. See the USDA guidelines here:

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/Leftovers_and_Food_Safety.pdf

"Bacteria grow rapidly between the temperatures of 40 F and 140 F. After food is safely cooked, hot food must be kept hot at 140 F or hotter to prevent bacterial growth. Within 2 hours of cooking food or holding it hot, leftovers must be refrigerated. Throw away all perishable foods that have been left at room temperature for more than 2 hours (1 hour if the temperature is over 90 F, such as at an outdoor picnic during summer)."

and

"To prevent bacterial growth, its important to cool food rapidly so it reaches as fast as possible the safe refrigerator-storage temperature of 40 F or below. To do this, divide large amounts of food into shallow containers. A big pot of soup, for example, will take a long time to cool, inviting bacteria to multiply and increasing the danger of foodborne illness. Instead, divide the pot of soup into smaller containers so it will cool quickly. Hot food can be placed directly in the refrigerator or be rapidly chilled in an ice or cold water bath before refrigerating.

so doesn't the reheating process kill all the bacteria?

Some bacteria produce spores that can survive the heating process and turn back into more bacteria later, and some bacteria actually produce toxins that aren't affected at all by heating.  Bacterial food intoxication is the kind of food poisoning that comes on pretty quickly, because it doesn't require the bacteria to replicate inside your body.  You're just eating toxins :(

wow. my gf is notorious for leaving food out overnight and i have a history of an iffy stomach. she's trying to poison me!

I'd definitely sleep with one eye open!

Paul der Krake

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8427 on: February 09, 2021, 10:41:58 AM »
It was in Florida. The NFL always picks a warm stadium for the benefit of their coddled guests. Nobody with enough money to attend wants anything to do with open air stadiums in Midwestern states in February.

The 2018 Super Bowl held in Minneapolis would beg to differ.
Minneapolis has a heated stadium, like Ford Field in Detroit and Lucas Oil in Indiannapolis where it was held in 2006 and 2012. The only exception to the rule in recent years was 2014 when they held it at the Metlife stadium in NJ.

Sugaree

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8428 on: February 09, 2021, 12:10:24 PM »
Just to chime in...as a chef, you don't need to throw food away that has been left out for 2 hours at room temperature...that's 6 hours if it comes from a controlled environment (i.e. Cold storage at 39 or below, or cooked to the proper internal temp for that dish), and stays in a controlled environment (room temp would qualify)...as long as you don't then serve it again...would have to throw away after the 6 hours. If you keep it outside the danger zone, and document every 2 hours, you can then cool it effectively (taken from above 140 to below 70 in the first 2 hours, and then from 70 to below 40 over the next 4 hours), you can re-heat it for later use.

At home, if you are going to follow all the USDA rules (I don't), then you also can't use anything in the fridge opened for more than 7 days, and with some products less (Milk is 3 days open and dated). No one does that. If it doesn't smell or feel slimey, I'm cooking that stuff up and eating it.

How do you feel about frozen things going directly into the crockpot?  I try to let things defrost over night, but sometimes it doesn't happen and sometimes they are still frozen the next day.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8429 on: February 09, 2021, 01:07:56 PM »
Just to chime in...as a chef, you don't need to throw food away that has been left out for 2 hours at room temperature...that's 6 hours if it comes from a controlled environment (i.e. Cold storage at 39 or below, or cooked to the proper internal temp for that dish), and stays in a controlled environment (room temp would qualify)...as long as you don't then serve it again...would have to throw away after the 6 hours. If you keep it outside the danger zone, and document every 2 hours, you can then cool it effectively (taken from above 140 to below 70 in the first 2 hours, and then from 70 to below 40 over the next 4 hours), you can re-heat it for later use.

At home, if you are going to follow all the USDA rules (I don't), then you also can't use anything in the fridge opened for more than 7 days, and with some products less (Milk is 3 days open and dated). No one does that. If it doesn't smell or feel slimey, I'm cooking that stuff up and eating it.

How do you feel about frozen things going directly into the crockpot?  I try to let things defrost over night, but sometimes it doesn't happen and sometimes they are still frozen the next day.
I'm not a chef, but we toss frozen meat into the crock pot quite regularly, with no issue.

Sugaree

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8430 on: February 09, 2021, 01:37:59 PM »
Just to chime in...as a chef, you don't need to throw food away that has been left out for 2 hours at room temperature...that's 6 hours if it comes from a controlled environment (i.e. Cold storage at 39 or below, or cooked to the proper internal temp for that dish), and stays in a controlled environment (room temp would qualify)...as long as you don't then serve it again...would have to throw away after the 6 hours. If you keep it outside the danger zone, and document every 2 hours, you can then cool it effectively (taken from above 140 to below 70 in the first 2 hours, and then from 70 to below 40 over the next 4 hours), you can re-heat it for later use.

At home, if you are going to follow all the USDA rules (I don't), then you also can't use anything in the fridge opened for more than 7 days, and with some products less (Milk is 3 days open and dated). No one does that. If it doesn't smell or feel slimey, I'm cooking that stuff up and eating it.

How do you feel about frozen things going directly into the crockpot?  I try to let things defrost over night, but sometimes it doesn't happen and sometimes they are still frozen the next day.
I'm not a chef, but we toss frozen meat into the crock pot quite regularly, with no issue.

I do too, but I've heard it's not the safest thing in the world.  We've never gotten sick, but I've got an iron stomach.

Rhinodad

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8431 on: February 09, 2021, 01:44:13 PM »
Just to chime in...as a chef, you don't need to throw food away that has been left out for 2 hours at room temperature...that's 6 hours if it comes from a controlled environment (i.e. Cold storage at 39 or below, or cooked to the proper internal temp for that dish), and stays in a controlled environment (room temp would qualify)...as long as you don't then serve it again...would have to throw away after the 6 hours. If you keep it outside the danger zone, and document every 2 hours, you can then cool it effectively (taken from above 140 to below 70 in the first 2 hours, and then from 70 to below 40 over the next 4 hours), you can re-heat it for later use.

At home, if you are going to follow all the USDA rules (I don't), then you also can't use anything in the fridge opened for more than 7 days, and with some products less (Milk is 3 days open and dated). No one does that. If it doesn't smell or feel slimey, I'm cooking that stuff up and eating it.

How do you feel about frozen things going directly into the crockpot?  I try to let things defrost over night, but sometimes it doesn't happen and sometimes they are still frozen the next day.

At work we would never do that,  but at home I'd have no qualms about it...especially in a crock pot where internal temp of any meat is most likely going to be over 165 anyways.

hooplady

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8432 on: February 09, 2021, 04:11:54 PM »
My current MPP is that I finally grok'd how the "Required Minimum Distribution" applies in my personal situation. I feel pretty stupid that I thought I could withdraw just what I needed to live on without incurring major tax penalties. All this talk about the 4% rule, I was envisioning a 1-2% drawdown each year. And while I don't technically have to start doing the RMD, my stash is to the point that I'd just be delaying the inevitable. The amounts involved will put me in a tax bracket that I never dreamed would apply in retirement.

Yes, I'm whining about having to take TOO MUCH MONEY out each year. Waaah for me!

markbike528CBX

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8433 on: February 09, 2021, 06:51:18 PM »
My current MPP is that I finally grok'd how the "Required Minimum Distribution" applies in my personal situation. I feel pretty stupid that I thought I could withdraw just what I needed to live on without incurring major tax penalties. All this talk about the 4% rule, I was envisioning a 1-2% drawdown each year. And while I don't technically have to start doing the RMD, my stash is to the point that I'd just be delaying the inevitable. The amounts involved will put me in a tax bracket that I never dreamed would apply in retirement.

Yes, I'm whining about having to take TOO MUCH MONEY out each year. Waaah for me!
We also Waaah for you. :-) 

I am drawing down early a IRA via a SEPP  72(t) rule thing, to _help_ mitigate that issue.   When we get to 65, we will  be paying taxes again in a big way.

Freedomin5

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8434 on: February 10, 2021, 01:12:12 AM »
My current MPP is that I finally grok'd how the "Required Minimum Distribution" applies in my personal situation. I feel pretty stupid that I thought I could withdraw just what I needed to live on without incurring major tax penalties. All this talk about the 4% rule, I was envisioning a 1-2% drawdown each year. And while I don't technically have to start doing the RMD, my stash is to the point that I'd just be delaying the inevitable. The amounts involved will put me in a tax bracket that I never dreamed would apply in retirement.

Yes, I'm whining about having to take TOO MUCH MONEY out each year. Waaah for me!
We also Waaah for you. :-) 

I am drawing down early a IRA via a SEPP  72(t) rule thing, to _help_ mitigate that issue.   When we get to 65, we will  be paying taxes again in a big way.

I approve of this MPP. I shall cue my tiny violin for you to bewail your unfortunate circumstances.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8435 on: February 10, 2021, 03:23:11 AM »
The Wail of the Taxpayer, D-Moll

so doesn't the reheating process kill all the bacteria?
Just for education: There are bacteria that thrive in nearly every environment you can find on earth. That includes freezing temperatures but also 100C+ hot water in the deep sea near black smokers.
It would be a scientific sensation if you find those in your kitchen, but I personally refrain from ever saying "all bacteria" as long as I am not extremely sure.
Bacteria are amazing! Life is amazing!

dcheesi

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8436 on: February 10, 2021, 07:27:55 AM »
Some bacteria produce spores that can survive the heating process and turn back into more bacteria later, and some bacteria actually produce toxins that aren't affected at all by heating.  Bacterial food intoxication is the kind of food poisoning that comes on pretty quickly, because it doesn't require the bacteria to replicate inside your body.  You're just eating toxins :(

I think I read something about rice being especially problematic in this regard.

That said, I generally leave my left-overs out for a couple of hours before putting it in the refrigerator.  I don't recall getting sick from it (yet!) :)
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/food-and-diet/can-reheating-rice-cause-food-poisoning/

Basically, the spores are dormant in dried, uncooked rice. When you cook the rice, you also re-hydrate it; the spores survive the cooking process, and can germinate once the rice cools a bit. Once germinated, the active bacteria multiply and begin making toxins. Refrigeration pauses the bacterial activity, but doesn't kill the bacteria or affect the toxins already present. Reheating the rice may not kill all the active bacteria, and even if it does the toxins from before are still there. Also any spores that didn't germinate the first time might still be able to germinate and cause problems if the rice sits out at room temperature once again.

TL;DR: cooked rice should always be kept out of the "danger zone" temperature range (roughly 40F-140F); either steaming hot, or else refrigerated. The longer it sits at room temperature, or in a warming tray, the more chance for toxins to potentially accumulate (if the bacterium was present to begin with). Additional heating/cooking doesn't solve the problem, nor does it even reset the clock on it.

Rhinodad

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8437 on: February 10, 2021, 07:31:04 AM »
I always used to wonder why they would have an RMD in the first place, and why people would complain about it. Now that I've found MMM, and have started to save aggressively, it's all making sense now!

hooplady

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8438 on: February 10, 2021, 09:01:20 AM »
I always used to wonder why they would have an RMD in the first place, and why people would complain about it. Now that I've found MMM, and have started to save aggressively, it's all making sense now!
I spent decades learning how to put it away, never gave much thought to the taking it out action. It was always drilled into me that "you'll be in a lower tax bracket after you retire." Um, looks like that's a nope!

Feverishly reading all I can in the Post-FIRE threads. Wish I'd done that a lot sooner!

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8439 on: February 10, 2021, 09:06:32 AM »
I always used to wonder why they would have an RMD in the first place, and why people would complain about it. Now that I've found MMM, and have started to save aggressively, it's all making sense now!
I spent decades learning how to put it away, never gave much thought to the taking it out action. It was always drilled into me that "you'll be in a lower tax bracket after you retire." Um, looks like that's a nope!

Feverishly reading all I can in the Post-FIRE threads. Wish I'd done that a lot sooner!

Yep, "I have so much money I have to pay taxes!!!" is a pretty good problem to have.

PhrugalPhan

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8440 on: February 10, 2021, 02:22:26 PM »
My MPP: Due to my pension starting in 2 years and a healthy 457 account, I am needing to max out my Roth savings and turn the pre-tax contribution to zero.  After changing contribution percentages accordingly in January, my upcoming paycheck shows the change to zero of pre-tax is included but my change to the Roth percentage is not.  After contacting the administrator I found out changes to zero contributions are made as soon as possible, but other changes take longer (and should show up in my next paycheck).  What the F????  Really it isn't going to be a major issue as I'll max out by October in any case, but how does this make sense???

SquashingDebt

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8441 on: February 10, 2021, 02:25:36 PM »
My MPP: Due to my pension starting in 2 years and a healthy 457 account, I am needing to max out my Roth savings and turn the pre-tax contribution to zero.  After changing contribution percentages accordingly in January, my upcoming paycheck shows the change to zero of pre-tax is included but my change to the Roth percentage is not.  After contacting the administrator I found out changes to zero contributions are made as soon as possible, but other changes take longer (and should show up in my next paycheck).  What the F????  Really it isn't going to be a major issue as I'll max out by October in any case, but how does this make sense???

My 401k can be changed to zero at any time but other changes are only quarterly.  Makes it hard to max out while keeping my contributions at at least 8% until the end of the year so I can get my match (no true-up).

chaskavitch

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8442 on: February 10, 2021, 02:49:54 PM »
My MPP: Due to my pension starting in 2 years and a healthy 457 account, I am needing to max out my Roth savings and turn the pre-tax contribution to zero.  After changing contribution percentages accordingly in January, my upcoming paycheck shows the change to zero of pre-tax is included but my change to the Roth percentage is not.  After contacting the administrator I found out changes to zero contributions are made as soon as possible, but other changes take longer (and should show up in my next paycheck).  What the F????  Really it isn't going to be a major issue as I'll max out by October in any case, but how does this make sense???

My 401k can be changed to zero at any time but other changes are only quarterly.  Makes it hard to max out while keeping my contributions at at least 8% until the end of the year so I can get my match (no true-up).

That sucks, I'm sorry :( 

These are such ridiculous policies!  How is one more difficult than the other?  It seems like they should be equally simple to do.

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8443 on: February 11, 2021, 03:38:16 AM »
I always used to wonder why they would have an RMD in the first place, and why people would complain about it. Now that I've found MMM, and have started to save aggressively, it's all making sense now!
Here's your new best friend and a link to an interesting rabbit hole:

https://www.gocurrycracker.com/who-pays-no-taxes/

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8444 on: February 11, 2021, 05:44:22 PM »
My husband won't make time to download his W2 and I can't even bug him about it because we don't have all of our 1099 Bs yet.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8445 on: February 11, 2021, 06:01:43 PM »
I always used to wonder why they would have an RMD in the first place, and why people would complain about it. Now that I've found MMM, and have started to save aggressively, it's all making sense now!
Here's your new best friend and a link to an interesting rabbit hole:

https://www.gocurrycracker.com/who-pays-no-taxes/

Thats a great explanation. Thanks for sharing.

Sibley

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8446 on: February 11, 2021, 08:51:08 PM »
I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.


LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8447 on: February 12, 2021, 04:12:11 AM »
I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.
Thanks for reminding me for one reason why I happily rent a flat in a multi-party building. There just isn't that sort fo problem. And if there would be, someone else would do something asap.

LateToTheParty

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8448 on: February 12, 2021, 04:49:03 PM »
I moved from 40 hours/week to 20 hours/week at work + DH is retiring this week.   Therefore, I changed my withholding to married filing single to increase taxes withheld (in order to offset estimated taxes for doing Roth conversions in these lower tax years) AND I increased 401k to 60% + changed it to Roth 401k instead of traditional 401k.

Net pay for 2 consecutive pay periods was ~ $300; this is about what I expected it to be.

However, when I looked at more detailed view, I realized they were still paying my old salary at 1.0 FTE!  The majority of the salary was going to taxes and 401k Roth.  And the net pay was ~ the same as what I was expecting for half-time salary.

So now I owe backpay on the overpayment.   Most of which went directly to taxes and Roth 401k.

My boss wondered why I did not notice the oveerpayment after first pay period.  Ummmmm....  cuz Im working for insurance benefits at this point, and stuffing as much as I can into retirement....  🤷🏻‍♀️  Didnt even notice!  I reported it as soon as I realized. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 04:59:21 PM by LateToTheParty »

fuzzy math

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #8449 on: February 12, 2021, 06:34:18 PM »
I'm internally wincing at what my utility bills are going to look like this month. Have one faucet dripping 24/7 for a day so far and will be into the weekend at least. The heat has been set higher 24/7 since last Friday. I've got a space heater running at least half the time. At least it's only one room that is actually at risk of freezing the pipes.

The utility room pipes did freeze while I was gone last weekend, but it seems there was no damage done. We used pex specifically because it is more forgiving of freezing, and that room is just dumb.

Also suffering the deep freeze a few hours west of you. I'm fully expecting an $800 power bill... that's with the house at 65, frost on my single pane windows (just moved here, going to replace windows in spring). The most frustrating part is not having had a regular bill yet to compare it to.