Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)

[frugalnacho]

Another MPP related to record-keeping: We are actively trying to reduce natural gas in favour of electricity and have some electric heating now, so it's going to be much harder to compare one year to the next year from now on without creating a really big Excel sheet (instead of the small text file I use now).

Why?

[shelivesthedream]

Total MPP here. Weep for me! Potty training advice all talks about buying your toddler underwear featuring their favourite character as a motivator. ToddlerSLTD...doesn't have one. We don't have a TV (although he does get to watch the odd dog video on Youtube) and we don't read any of the hip-cool modern children's books. Paddington Bear is no longer rad enough to be featured on underwear, it seems.

We are in a similar situation, babynacho doesn't watch tv or anything.  He is absolutely OBSESSED with trains, and cars/trucks/anything with wheels though, so we did thomas the tank engine undies.  He was excited for trains even though he doesn't know the character Thomas.

We actually got a few free Thomas the Tank Engine books (modern ones) and ToddlerSLTD was just...meh. He pointed at them and shouted "train!" a few times, so he recognises them for what they are, but wasn't interested in having them read to him at all and they are now basically gathering dust. (If you're interested in train book recs, he LOVES the Little Red Train series by Benedict Blathwayt, and we enjoy the detailed illustrations and occasionally WTF storylines)

Top interests of the moment:
- Trains
- White vans
- DOGS
- Flowers

When they release white van underpants, I'll be first in the queue :D

[Imma]

Another MPP related to record-keeping: We are actively trying to reduce natural gas in favour of electricity and have some electric heating now, so it's going to be much harder to compare one year to the next year from now on without creating a really big Excel sheet (instead of the small text file I use now).

Why?

Because gas is expensive and will be getting more expensive in the future, and at some point within the next couple of decades we'll all have to stop using gas. My city has started a project to take the first 3 neighbourhoods off gas this year and nationwide, natural gas is banned in new builds. Of course it's a big project to take a neighbourhood off gas so it'll probably be 5-10 years until the transition to renewable energy is done in the first 3 neighbourhoods, but the city is already preparing to roll out the projects to other areas.

[ABC123]

Total MPP here. Weep for me! Potty training advice all talks about buying your toddler underwear featuring their favourite character as a motivator. ToddlerSLTD...doesn't have one. We don't have a TV (although he does get to watch the odd dog video on Youtube) and we don't read any of the hip-cool modern children's books. Paddington Bear is no longer rad enough to be featured on underwear, it seems.

If he likes dogs, how about some Paw Patrol undies?  Dogs in fire outfits, police outfits, etc.  He doesn't have to know they come from a tv show.  My toddler picked out Elmo undies (or "Momo" as he calls it), even though we sure aren't going to subscribe to HBO so he can watch Sesame Street. 

[SwordGuy]

Another MPP related to record-keeping: We are actively trying to reduce natural gas in favour of electricity and have some electric heating now, so it's going to be much harder to compare one year to the next year from now on without creating a really big Excel sheet (instead of the small text file I use now).

Why?

Because gas is expensive and will be getting more expensive in the future, and at some point within the next couple of decades we'll all have to stop using gas. My city has started a project to take the first 3 neighbourhoods off gas this year and nationwide, natural gas is banned in new builds. Of course it's a big project to take a neighbourhood off gas so it'll probably be 5-10 years until the transition to renewable energy is done in the first 3 neighbourhoods, but the city is already preparing to roll out the projects to other areas.

Gas in tanks stored at the house?  No idea on pricing.

Gas delivered via pipes to the house?   It's always been cheaper than electric heat, hasn't it?

My understanding is that the shale oil drilling in the US has unlocked a lot of natural gas and driven prices down.   A quick glance at charts on google appears to back that belief.

What makes you think otherwise?

[TomTX]

Gas in tanks stored at the house?  No idea on pricing.

Gas delivered via pipes to the house?   It's always been cheaper than electric heat, hasn't it?

My understanding is that the shale oil drilling in the US has unlocked a lot of natural gas and driven prices down.   A quick glance at charts on google appears to back that belief.

What makes you think otherwise?

Cheaper than resistance heating, sure. But modern heat pumps with a COP over 4 (think of it as an efficiency multiplier) and do well in sub-freezing temperatures are much easier to come by - and should beat natural gas costwise.

[parkerk]

My MPP today is that I've gotten so used to making my own fancy coffee drinks at home that when I got a free latte from Starbucks this morning I realized I don't like them anymore!  They just don't taste as good as what I can make myself for a fraction of the cost.

[Imma]

Another MPP related to record-keeping: We are actively trying to reduce natural gas in favour of electricity and have some electric heating now, so it's going to be much harder to compare one year to the next year from now on without creating a really big Excel sheet (instead of the small text file I use now).

Why?

Because gas is expensive and will be getting more expensive in the future, and at some point within the next couple of decades we'll all have to stop using gas. My city has started a project to take the first 3 neighbourhoods off gas this year and nationwide, natural gas is banned in new builds. Of course it's a big project to take a neighbourhood off gas so it'll probably be 5-10 years until the transition to renewable energy is done in the first 3 neighbourhoods, but the city is already preparing to roll out the projects to other areas.

Gas in tanks stored at the house?  No idea on pricing.

Gas delivered via pipes to the house?   It's always been cheaper than electric heat, hasn't it?

My understanding is that the shale oil drilling in the US has unlocked a lot of natural gas and driven prices down.   A quick glance at charts on google appears to back that belief.

What makes you think otherwise?

Not being in the US does :)

I have no idea what natural gas costs over there, but it's getting really expensive in here due to government policy to make it more expensive, to try and discourage people from using gas in favour of electricity. Over the last 5 years the price of gas has almost doubled while electricity is getting cheaper. This is not going to change as it's a result of tax policy. Our energy consumption is getting lower each year and our bill just gets higher and higher.

Why is the government doing this, except for the general need to reduce the use of fossil fuels? Because we have gotten used to cheap and plenty gas over the last 50 years, but gas drilling comes at a huge cost to the environment and society because it has given us an earthquake problem. So we need to stop using it asap.

[Taran Wanderer]

Most of Europe's natural gas is supplied from Russia, isn't it?  So a government energy policy to make natural gas more expensive could be both due to climate change concerns around burning fossil fuels, and also political concerns about being dependent on the big bear to the east.

[Imma]

Most of our natural gas right now still comes from our own soil, which is why the earthquakes bother us so much. Tbh I don't think many people would care so much about environmental issues in Russia, but we see how gas drilling is causing big problems in our own country which is why there's huge political pressure to stop drilling completely. Norway is a big exporter to Europe as well but their supply is not enough. That leaves us with the choice of becoming dependent on Russian and American gas or finding sustainable local sources of energy. The energy transition isn't going to be quick and easy so in the short term we will have to import, but in the long term getting off the gas network entirely should be possible.

[TVRodriguez]

My MPP today is that I've gotten so used to making my own fancy coffee drinks at home that when I got a free latte from Starbucks this morning I realized I don't like them anymore!  They just don't taste as good as what I can make myself for a fraction of the cost.

That's a good one.  Reminds me that I've got a $10 gift card to Starbucks (was a referral reward from our orthodontist) that I have yet to use.  It's kind of too much for DH and me, as neither of us likes Starbucks, and too little to use to buy something for each of my 3 kids (I thought of bringing them there as a treat to use up the gift card).  So it sits in my wallet.  I then thought to give it to one of the moms who hands me down clothes for my kids, but I thought maybe a $25 value would be better, so the GC just sits there.

[BTDretire]

Good job @Alfred J Quack ! Our bill came recently and we don't get any money back for the first time ever. We have always reduced out energy consumption by about 5%/year. Seems our freezer is dying and needs to be replaced.

Resulting MPP: my new monthly payment will be much higher than necessary because the higher use was a one-off, and I don't get any interest over that money even though I'm really just giving a loan to the power company. As we will replace the 10 year old freezer with the most energy efficient new model, we might even hit a new record low next year.

Another MPP related to record-keeping: We are actively trying to reduce natural gas in favour of electricity and have some electric heating now,

Why? Isn't gas cheaper?
 Does most of you electric come from clean nuclear energy and you want to go green, that's fine, I just want to know, why?

so it's going to be much harder to compare one year to the next year from now on without creating a really big Excel sheet (instead of the small text file I use now).

[TomTX]

Why? Isn't gas cheaper?
 Does most of you electric come from clean nuclear energy and you want to go green, that's fine, I just want to know, why?

In many areas which have good resources, it's cheaper to build a wind farm than it is to just buy the fuel for a natural gas plant. Just run the natural gas plant when there isn't enough wind.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/08/wind-power-prices-now-lower-than-the-cost-of-natural-gas/

Note that's based on 2018 data - prices continue to decline.

[shelivesthedream]

Why? Isn't gas cheaper?
 Does most of you electric come from clean nuclear energy and you want to go green, that's fine, I just want to know, why?

Not being in the US does :)

I have no idea what natural gas costs over there, but it's getting really expensive in here due to government policy to make it more expensive, to try and discourage people from using gas in favour of electricity. Over the last 5 years the price of gas has almost doubled while electricity is getting cheaper. This is not going to change as it's a result of tax policy. Our energy consumption is getting lower each year and our bill just gets higher and higher.

Why is the government doing this, except for the general need to reduce the use of fossil fuels? Because we have gotten used to cheap and plenty gas over the last 50 years, but gas drilling comes at a huge cost to the environment and society because it has given us an earthquake problem. So we need to stop using it asap.

[Alfred J Quack]

Why? Isn't gas cheaper?
 Does most of you electric come from clean nuclear energy and you want to go green, that's fine, I just want to know, why?

In many areas which have good resources, it's cheaper to build a wind farm than it is to just buy the fuel for a natural gas plant. Just run the natural gas plant when there isn't enough wind.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/08/wind-power-prices-now-lower-than-the-cost-of-natural-gas/

Note that's based on 2018 data - prices continue to decline.

Although I agree with the greener pastures of engery generation, a lot of my co-habitants in Europe do not: https://earther.gizmodo.com/anti-wind-farm-activism-is-sweeping-europe-and-the-us-c-1829627812

And yes, I'm guessing I'd have issues with a windfarm close to my house but the sites these people are terrorizing are faily distant from housing so they only thing they should see is some blades turning in the distance...

[TomTX]

Why? Isn't gas cheaper?
 Does most of you electric come from clean nuclear energy and you want to go green, that's fine, I just want to know, why?

In many areas which have good resources, it's cheaper to build a wind farm than it is to just buy the fuel for a natural gas plant. Just run the natural gas plant when there isn't enough wind.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/08/wind-power-prices-now-lower-than-the-cost-of-natural-gas/

Note that's based on 2018 data - prices continue to decline.

Although I agree with the greener pastures of engery generation, a lot of my co-habitants in Europe do not: https://earther.gizmodo.com/anti-wind-farm-activism-is-sweeping-europe-and-the-us-c-1829627812

And yes, I'm guessing I'd have issues with a windfarm close to my house but the sites these people are terrorizing are faily distant from housing so they only thing they should see is some blades turning in the distance...

Yeah, these stories are way overblown in the media and usually trace back to just a handful of people. I note that they don't have a single picture of an actual protest, and it only takes one guy to set fire to a couple tires in front of police. But Gizmodo can make it sound way dramatic and get clicks.

The fossil fuel industry has been funding fake grassroots groups ("Astroturfing") to slow anything with renewable energy. For decades. They also sabotaged early-modern electric car efforts via battery patents. The battery patents for the batteries used for the GM EV1 (later, better, almost practical version) ended up with ChevronTexaco, who did precisely nothing with it. Practical electric cars were forced to wait for prices to come down on Lithium rechargeables - the first being the Tesla Roadster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries

The exact same technique of astroturfing was used for tobacco, to keep it in use (and making billions in profits) as long as possible.

Before that, the exact same technique was used for lead in gasoline (much cheaper to add tetraethyl lead than improve octane safely)

Et cetera.

The fossil industry is raking $5 Billion every DAY, and has trillions in assets which will dramatically drop in value as we reduce fossil fuel use.

Throwing a few million into astroturfing is an immensely profitable "investment" - one day of net delay, $5 Billion.

Trump is mentioned in the article - fossil fuel interests (especially coal) have been pouring money over to him.

https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/climate-denial-machine-how-fossil-fuel-industry-blocks-climate-action

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/how-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-used-astroturf-front-groups-confuse-public

If you don't know better, you think that regular citizens are just speaking up - when in fact they're being paid by Big Fossil to do so.

[LennStar]

Why? Isn't gas cheaper?
 Does most of you electric come from clean nuclear energy and you want to go green, that's fine, I just want to know, why?

In many areas which have good resources, it's cheaper to build a wind farm than it is to just buy the fuel for a natural gas plant. Just run the natural gas plant when there isn't enough wind.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/08/wind-power-prices-now-lower-than-the-cost-of-natural-gas/

Note that's based on 2018 data - prices continue to decline.

Although I agree with the greener pastures of engery generation, a lot of my co-habitants in Europe do not: https://earther.gizmodo.com/anti-wind-farm-activism-is-sweeping-europe-and-the-us-c-1829627812

And yes, I'm guessing I'd have issues with a windfarm close to my house but the sites these people are terrorizing are faily distant from housing so they only thing they should see is some blades turning in the distance...

But the 15 minutes of swishing shadows when the sun is low!!!

And as TomTX said, if you track where the funding for many of the "people's protests" come from, it very often are the same dozen groups that are financed by fossil fuel companies. (By which I do not want to imply that the protesters necessarily know it.)
Or the studies that X birds die, and when someone else does the same couting, the numbers are 100 times lower or zero.

[never give up]

My latest Mustachian People Problem is that I feel sad that Heather in Ottawa hasn’t logged in since 2016, and therefore probably doesn’t know her thread is at 136 pages and still going strong.

[Imma]

Why? Isn't gas cheaper?
 Does most of you electric come from clean nuclear energy and you want to go green, that's fine, I just want to know, why?

In many areas which have good resources, it's cheaper to build a wind farm than it is to just buy the fuel for a natural gas plant. Just run the natural gas plant when there isn't enough wind.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/08/wind-power-prices-now-lower-than-the-cost-of-natural-gas/

Note that's based on 2018 data - prices continue to decline.

Although I agree with the greener pastures of engery generation, a lot of my co-habitants in Europe do not: https://earther.gizmodo.com/anti-wind-farm-activism-is-sweeping-europe-and-the-us-c-1829627812

And yes, I'm guessing I'd have issues with a windfarm close to my house but the sites these people are terrorizing are faily distant from housing so they only thing they should see is some blades turning in the distance...

But the 15 minutes of swishing shadows when the sun is low!!!

And as TomTX said, if you track where the funding for many of the "people's protests" come from, it very often are the same dozen groups that are financed by fossil fuel companies. (By which I do not want to imply that the protesters necessarily know it.)
Or the studies that X birds die, and when someone else does the same couting, the numbers are 100 times lower or zero.

What concerns me is that over the last 2-3 years, it has become much more acceptable in my social circle to be sceptical of climate change, renewable energy etc. And those 'sceptics' have one argument they keep on repeating and that they are completely right about: there is no perfect solution for the energy transition yet. They are right, there isn't one completely perfect solution and we're unlikely to find it ever. But one thing I can also tell you, is that all of these options are better than just continuing to use fossil fuels until we run out of them.

We can't put wind parks everywhere, but we can put them in some places with lots of wind and not many inhabitants (I can't speak from experience, but apart from the shade they are said to be noisy as well). Those other locations might be much better suited for solar or hydro energy or sources of renwable energy we haven't even discovered yet. On top of that, we need to find ways to reduce energy consumption and I think if everyone put in a little bit of effort, we could already reduce our energy consumption by so much at the current level of technology.

[shelivesthedream]

Off the back of this discussion, I wonder if anyone can point me to any accessible resources/discussions about what a genuinely sustainable lifestyle/level of consumption looks like. I'm thinking about something like One Planet Development in Wales (http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/) but obviously you can't give every person on the planet a plot of land and expect them and society to make a living from it.

So, for example, what IS a reasonable individual allocation of energy consumption? I'd love to read more about opinions on this.

[TomTX]

We can't put wind parks everywhere, but we can put them in some places with lots of wind and not many inhabitants (I can't speak from experience, but apart from the shade they are said to be noisy as well). Those other locations might be much better suited for solar or hydro energy or sources of renwable energy we haven't even discovered yet. On top of that, we need to find ways to reduce energy consumption and I think if everyone put in a little bit of effort, we could already reduce our energy consumption by so much at the current level of technology.

The first protest referenced in that article was a particularly dumb one. They were protesting offshore turbines.

Not only does nobody live nearby to bother, they act as nurseries for fish by keeping out commercial trawlers net fishing, noticeably improving fish stocks in the general area. Recreational fishing is still fine around the turbines (ie, a few people in a boat with some lines) - but by keeping out the huge nets, fish can repopulate - and then the extra population spills out into areas which can be commercially fished, increasing their take as well.

[TomTX]

My latest Mustachian People Problem is that I feel sad that Heather in Ottawa hasn’t logged in since 2016, and therefore probably doesn’t know her thread is at 136 pages and still going strong.

If you click on her name, then on her page you click on the envelope icon - you can send her an email. Presuming she uses the same email address.

[never give up]

That's a cunning plan TomTX. I'm worried I may sound a bit weird though. "Hi you don't know me. I'm a total stranger from the UK but I've just posted in the Mustachian People Problems (just for fun) thread and it's now 136 pages long. If you haven't read it since 2016 you have a lot of catching up to do. Hope you're well. Thanks again for starting an epic thread. Regards never give up and others from the MMM forums"

[TomTX]

That's a cunning plan TomTX. I'm worried I may sound a bit weird though. "Hi you don't know me. I'm a total stranger from the UK but I've just posted in the Mustachian People Problems (just for fun) thread and it's now 136 pages long. If you haven't read it since 2016 you have a lot of catching up to do. Hope you're well. Thanks again for starting an epic thread. Regards never give up and others from the MMM forums"

Well - if it makes you feel less weird - I already sent her an email! ;)

[never give up]

Haha nice one! You'll have to let us know what she says.

[LennStar]

What concerns me is that over the last 2-3 years, it has become much more acceptable in my social circle to be sceptical of climate change, renewable energy etc. And those 'sceptics' have one argument they keep on repeating and that they are completely right about: there is no perfect solution for the energy transition yet. They are right, there isn't one completely perfect solution and we're unlikely to find it ever. But one thing I can also tell you, is that all of these options are better than just continuing to use fossil fuels until we run out of them.

"There is no perfect solution" is about the stupidest thing ever.

Back when the world started to electrify, they were very far away from perfect. There even was a "war" between AC and DC proponents, culminating in the invention of electrical death sentence - Edison (DC) wanted to show how dangerous AC is to kill off not only criminals but also his competition, and proposed eletrocution.

And Japan has even today 2 seperate electric grids - one with 50Hz (like Europe)  and with 60 Hz (US). Why?
Because when it all started, Japanese bought two generators, one in the US and one from Berlin. And since Japan after WWII produced basically all electric household stuff of the world, it is normal that a microwave you buy here in Germany can also work with 60Hz. Isn't history strange?

[BicycleB]

Off the back of this discussion, I wonder if anyone can point me to any accessible resources/discussions about what a genuinely sustainable lifestyle/level of consumption looks like. I'm thinking about something like One Planet Development in Wales (http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/) but obviously you can't give every person on the planet a plot of land and expect them and society to make a living from it.

So, for example, what IS a reasonable individual allocation of energy consumption? I'd love to read more about opinions on this.

Just got back from a town hall on climate, where I finally heard of an apparently fabulous book called "Drawdown / The Most Comprehensive Book Ever Proposed to Reverse Global Warming", compiled by Paul Hawken. Its thesis is that by implementing multiple approaches with known technology, we can actually reverse global warming - that we have the power to do this. The book lists 80 techniques and includes some estimation of each technique's impact, apparently.

Since some of the approaches are individual, one way to estimate a reasonable allocation would be to figure out a life that applies the individual approaches, then determine how much energy consumption that life would entail. You could use UCBerkeley's Cool Climate calculator for the calculation, probably.

https://www.drawdown.org/the-book
https://coolclimate.berkeley.edu/calculator

I am thrilled to have more direct leverage on this issue than I thought. My MPP is that this topic risks a thread derail, but it's too exciting not to reply to!

[lazycow]

Mine is such a pissy little problem, but I made a double lot of pea and ham soup over winter, thinking I was rocking the batch cooking. The family decided they didn't like it any more, so I have to now eat the whole  big container I defrosted today over the week, as I didn't store it in individual servings.

[shelivesthedream]

Off the back of this discussion, I wonder if anyone can point me to any accessible resources/discussions about what a genuinely sustainable lifestyle/level of consumption looks like. I'm thinking about something like One Planet Development in Wales (http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/) but obviously you can't give every person on the planet a plot of land and expect them and society to make a living from it.

So, for example, what IS a reasonable individual allocation of energy consumption? I'd love to read more about opinions on this.

Just got back from a town hall on climate, where I finally heard of an apparently fabulous book called "Drawdown / The Most Comprehensive Book Ever Proposed to Reverse Global Warming", compiled by Paul Hawken. Its thesis is that by implementing multiple approaches with known technology, we can actually reverse global warming - that we have the power to do this. The book lists 80 techniques and includes some estimation of each technique's impact, apparently.

Since some of the approaches are individual, one way to estimate a reasonable allocation would be to figure out a life that applies the individual approaches, then determine how much energy consumption that life would entail. You could use UCBerkeley's Cool Climate calculator for the calculation, probably.

https://www.drawdown.org/the-book
https://coolclimate.berkeley.edu/calculator

I am thrilled to have more direct leverage on this issue than I thought. My MPP is that this topic risks a thread derail, but it's too exciting not to reply to!

Thanks! This looks great! I'm reading through the online summaries and finding them really interesting.

(I guess people can PM me if they want to recommend stuff but don't want to to derail the thread.)

[Sibley]

Mine is such a pissy little problem, but I made a double lot of pea and ham soup over winter, thinking I was rocking the batch cooking. The family decided they didn't like it any more, so I have to now eat the whole  big container I defrosted today over the week, as I didn't store it in individual servings.

Unless your family members are exclusively adults, I would vote that you feed them dinner and they can either eat it or not. I ate a lot of split pea soup, tomato soup, sausage pie, and Brussels sprouts as a kid. I can't stand anyone of them, and never could.

[APowers]

Mine is such a pissy little problem, but I made a double lot of pea and ham soup over winter, thinking I was rocking the batch cooking. The family decided they didn't like it any more, so I have to now eat the whole  big container I defrosted today over the week, as I didn't store it in individual servings.

Unless your family members are exclusively adults, I would vote that you feed them dinner and they can either eat it or not. I ate a lot of split pea soup, tomato soup, sausage pie, and Brussels sprouts as a kid. I can't stand anyone of them, and never could.

+1 for "well, that's what's for dinner, like it or lump it." It's not like you're trying to serve them mealworm alfredo.

I have reduced my meal-planning/prep stress by about 50% by planning a reasonably tasty menu, and shifting to a "I'm sorry you don't like it, but this is what's for dinner. If you don't eat it, you will be very hungry later" mealtime rule instead of trying to accommodate endlessly shifting tastes.

[Sugaree]

We can't put wind parks everywhere, but we can put them in some places with lots of wind and not many inhabitants (I can't speak from experience, but apart from the shade they are said to be noisy as well). Those other locations might be much better suited for solar or hydro energy or sources of renwable energy we haven't even discovered yet. On top of that, we need to find ways to reduce energy consumption and I think if everyone put in a little bit of effort, we could already reduce our energy consumption by so much at the current level of technology.

The first protest referenced in that article was a particularly dumb one. They were protesting offshore turbines.

Not only does nobody live nearby to bother, they act as nurseries for fish by keeping out commercial trawlers net fishing, noticeably improving fish stocks in the general area. Recreational fishing is still fine around the turbines (ie, a few people in a boat with some lines) - but by keeping out the huge nets, fish can repopulate - and then the extra population spills out into areas which can be commercially fished, increasing their take as well.

Not to mention providing the hard substrate that a lot of species of fish need to reproduce.  The oil rigs in the gulf are a good example of this.

[lazycow]

Met a friend for a beach swim and forgot to bring my  bathers, so swam in my bra and knickers. But had to spend the afternoon running errands in just my dress as my underwear was wet.

[Linea_Norway]

I forgot to bring a new role of biscuits to work. I ate up my last ones yesterday and today I have a very hungry day. My lunch is already eaten, as well as 2 (small) bananas that work provides. If I stay hungry (very likely), I might need to buy something at the cafetaria.

[SwordGuy]

We used up our ready cash buying (all paid in full) two low mileage used cars and two houses, one for charity and one for our daughter's adopted grandmother.    We'll have to budget very strictly for the next 6 months.

[LennStar]

We used up our ready cash buying (all paid in full) two low mileage used cars and two houses, one for charity and one for our daughter's adopted grandmother.    We'll have to budget very strictly for the next 6 months.

Your daughter has adopted a grandmother??? *very confused look*

[BicycleB]

^SwordGuy's entire family is having FIRE adventures!

[gaja]

Why? Isn't gas cheaper?
 Does most of you electric come from clean nuclear energy and you want to go green, that's fine, I just want to know, why?

In many areas which have good resources, it's cheaper to build a wind farm than it is to just buy the fuel for a natural gas plant. Just run the natural gas plant when there isn't enough wind.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/08/wind-power-prices-now-lower-than-the-cost-of-natural-gas/

Note that's based on 2018 data - prices continue to decline.

Although I agree with the greener pastures of engery generation, a lot of my co-habitants in Europe do not: https://earther.gizmodo.com/anti-wind-farm-activism-is-sweeping-europe-and-the-us-c-1829627812

And yes, I'm guessing I'd have issues with a windfarm close to my house but the sites these people are terrorizing are faily distant from housing so they only thing they should see is some blades turning in the distance...

Yeah, these stories are way overblown in the media and usually trace back to just a handful of people. I note that they don't have a single picture of an actual protest, and it only takes one guy to set fire to a couple tires in front of police. But Gizmodo can make it sound way dramatic and get clicks.

The fossil fuel industry has been funding fake grassroots groups ("Astroturfing") to slow anything with renewable energy. For decades. They also sabotaged early-modern electric car efforts via battery patents. The battery patents for the batteries used for the GM EV1 (later, better, almost practical version) ended up with ChevronTexaco, who did precisely nothing with it. Practical electric cars were forced to wait for prices to come down on Lithium rechargeables - the first being the Tesla Roadster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries

The exact same technique of astroturfing was used for tobacco, to keep it in use (and making billions in profits) as long as possible.

Before that, the exact same technique was used for lead in gasoline (much cheaper to add tetraethyl lead than improve octane safely)

Et cetera.

The fossil industry is raking $5 Billion every DAY, and has trillions in assets which will dramatically drop in value as we reduce fossil fuel use.

Throwing a few million into astroturfing is an immensely profitable "investment" - one day of net delay, $5 Billion.

Trump is mentioned in the article - fossil fuel interests (especially coal) have been pouring money over to him.

https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/climate-denial-machine-how-fossil-fuel-industry-blocks-climate-action

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/how-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-used-astroturf-front-groups-confuse-public

If you don't know better, you think that regular citizens are just speaking up - when in fact they're being paid by Big Fossil to do so.

There are large protests against wind power in Norway now, and although I love windmills and renewable electricity, I agree with the protesters. And I am quite certain they are legit grass root, and not astroturf, since these are led by legit environmentalists that I know well from years back, and their arguments are consistent and well balanced (they do not support fossil energy, but want focus on energy efficiency and renovation of hydro power). The reason I support the protesters: 
1) We already produce 110 % of the electricity we need in Norway, everything is from hydro and other renewable sources. The wind power is all for export, to aid Europe in their transition to renewable energy. And to earn money. It is always nice to add some more energy income to the national savings, but it is not really worth it for the economic side only. We have lost enough waterfalls to get renewable energy, now other people can do their part.
2) The investors are not local, and very little money goes back to the community. We don't even tax them very much.
3) Large scale wind farms are being proposed and built in untouched nature. I very much disagree with the notion that we should place wind mills in areas with little people. We have so very little wilderness left, and we need to protect nature more than people. Why not build windmills along all European motorways, in all industrial areas, and in all harbours?

With that said and done, I will be working to get more windpower built in the area where I currently live (south Norway), but in the industrialized parts and along the motorways. We are close enough to the Swedish and Danish borders that electricity export makes sense, and more cheap electricity could lead to new industries being built.


And as to @Imma's original plan to switch from gas to electricity: good plan, unless you have access to biogas. There are a lot of biogas plants in the Netherlands that are struggling now because the subsidy schemes have changed. Closing those down would lead to increased emissions of methane.


--------------------
BTW: could the resistance to more renewable energy in Norway be considered a Mustachian Country Problem?

[NV Teacher]

Accidentally overpaid my cc this month.  Meant to pay $1070 and actually paid $1700.  Not a big deal because the extra money was headed to my saving account.  Next month my cc bill will be much lower and I'll put the extra into savings.  At another point in my life this would have caused some pretty serious panic.  Glad those days are long behind me.

[SwordGuy]

We used up our ready cash buying (all paid in full) two low mileage used cars and two houses, one for charity and one for our daughter's adopted grandmother.    We'll have to budget very strictly for the next 6 months.

Your daughter has adopted a grandmother??? *very confused look*

Our daughter has Down syndrome.  None of the "real" grandparents or step-grandparents involved ever gave a damn about her.
The only one that's still living only bothered to learn how to say her name correctly a year ago.  Our daughter was born in 1973.   Pretty pathetic, isn't it?

We have a wonderful lady who is her caregiver during the workday.   She's been taking care of our daughter for a over a dozen years and she (and her whole family) treat our daughter as family.   So our daughter adopted her as her grandmother.   We endorse her choice wholeheartedly.

[SwordGuy]

^SwordGuy's entire family is having FIRE adventures!

Yeah, we are.  It's been an interesting 1 1/2 years.  I left out my wife and I being sick as dogs for a month with some kind of crud, my wife's injured ankle and knee (two separate injuries at separate times) that both put her in wheel chair, our daughter's broken leg that put her in a wheel chair (same time as her mom!) from a totally separate incident, 3 of my teeth that decided to go walkabout and had to be replaced, and a couple of HVAC systems that had to be replaced in our rentals -- because those weren't really MPPs...   Oh, yeah, and my wife's upcoming cataract surgery.

Less adventure for the next year would make SwordGuy a much more relaxed fellow...  :)

[TomTX]

There are large protests against wind power in Norway now, and although I love windmills and renewable electricity, I agree with the protesters. And I am quite certain they are legit grass root, and not astroturf, since these are led by legit environmentalists that I know well from years back, and their arguments are consistent and well balanced (they do not support fossil energy, but want focus on energy efficiency and renovation of hydro power). The reason I support the protesters: 
1) We already produce 110 % of the electricity we need in Norway, everything is from hydro and other renewable sources. The wind power is all for export, to aid Europe in their transition to renewable energy. And to earn money. It is always nice to add some more energy income to the national savings, but it is not really worth it for the economic side only. We have lost enough waterfalls to get renewable energy, now other people can do their part.
2) The investors are not local, and very little money goes back to the community. We don't even tax them very much.
3) Large scale wind farms are being proposed and built in untouched nature. I very much disagree with the notion that we should place wind mills in areas with little people. We have so very little wilderness left, and we need to protect nature more than people. Why not build windmills along all European motorways, in all industrial areas, and in all harbours?

With that said and done, I will be working to get more windpower built in the area where I currently live (south Norway), but in the industrialized parts and along the motorways. We are close enough to the Swedish and Danish borders that electricity export makes sense, and more cheap electricity could lead to new industries being built.

Sounds very reasonable.

[Dicey]

We used up our ready cash buying (all paid in full) two low mileage used cars and two houses, one for charity and one for our daughter's adopted grandmother.    We'll have to budget very strictly for the next 6 months.

Your daughter has adopted a grandmother??? *very confused look*

Our daughter has Down syndrome.  None of the "real" grandparents or step-grandparents involved ever gave a damn about her.
The only one that's still living only bothered to learn how to say her name correctly a year ago.  Our daughter was born in 1973.   Pretty pathetic, isn't it?

We have a wonderful lady who is her caregiver during the workday.   She's been taking care of our daughter for a over a dozen years and she (and her whole family) treat our daughter as family.   So our daughter adopted her as her grandmother.   We endorse her choice wholeheartedly.

Oh, that breaks my heart. If I lived in your vicinity, I'd put myself up for grandma adoption so she could have an extra one.

[RelaxedGal]

Paid off our house today, because we want to move our investments into a "more conservative" direction and 2.5% beats current bond yields; and we're probably taking the standard deduction this year anyways.

My MPP: I'm excited, but I can't tell my coworkers without major jealousy.  So I have to tell you guys - and call my parents when I get home tonight.

[kanga1622]

Paid off our house today, because we want to move our investments into a "more conservative" direction and 2.5% beats current bond yields; and we're probably taking the standard deduction this year anyways.

My MPP: I'm excited, but I can't tell my coworkers without major jealousy.  So I have to tell you guys - and call my parents when I get home tonight.

I felt the same way. Such a huge milestone and makes our lives more flexible when big bills pop up in a random month. But definitely not information I really want to share with coworkers or really much of anyone.

[Linea_Norway]

Paid off our house today, because we want to move our investments into a "more conservative" direction and 2.5% beats current bond yields; and we're probably taking the standard deduction this year anyways.

My MPP: I'm excited, but I can't tell my coworkers without major jealousy.  So I have to tell you guys - and call my parents when I get home tonight.

I felt the same way. Such a huge milestone and makes our lives more flexible when big bills pop up in a random month. But definitely not information I really want to share with coworkers or really much of anyone.

I have one coworker who once bragged about having paid down his mortgage. He was asking other people whether they still had a mortgage. He didn't ask me, so I didn't tell him that I don't have it.
Earlier this person had an issue with being adicted to gamling on the stock market, also with very negative results. And I still get the impression that he very often, if not most of the time, looks at his stash in the stock market.

[Barbaebigode]

I work in the public sector (not US) and my employer has a scholarship program that refunds 60% of the cost of post graduate programs that employees take that are related to their work. So I paid upfront for a 10 month long program that costed about 4500, since the 10 month payment option would cost about 8000, thinking I would save both personal and public money. Today I went to the HR to deliver all the paperwork and was informed that they only refund monthly payments because they want to be sure that the applicants will stick to the classes. They even mentioned that my case was the first they ever saw of someone that paid upfront, so they weren't sure on how to proceed. I told them that I accept being refunded after the post graduate program is finished and now I'm waiting the HR boss to come back from vacations so he can decide if they can do that.

[SwordGuy]

I work in the public sector (not US) and my employer has a scholarship program that refunds 60% of the cost of post graduate programs that employees take that are related to their work. So I paid upfront for a 10 month long program that costed about 4500, since the 10 month payment option would cost about 8000, thinking I would save both personal and public money. Today I went to the HR to deliver all the paperwork and was informed that they only refund monthly payments because they want to be sure that the applicants will stick to the classes. They even mentioned that my case was the first they ever saw of someone that paid upfront, so they weren't sure on how to proceed. I told them that I accept being refunded after the post graduate program is finished and now I'm waiting the HR boss to come back from vacations so he can decide if they can do that.

If they won't, then ask the school to refund your money and allow you to pay them $8000 in monthly payments instead.  You'll come out ahead and your HR department can eat some crow.   Might make them wiser next time.

[frugalnacho]

I work in the public sector (not US) and my employer has a scholarship program that refunds 60% of the cost of post graduate programs that employees take that are related to their work. So I paid upfront for a 10 month long program that costed about 4500, since the 10 month payment option would cost about 8000, thinking I would save both personal and public money. Today I went to the HR to deliver all the paperwork and was informed that they only refund monthly payments because they want to be sure that the applicants will stick to the classes. They even mentioned that my case was the first they ever saw of someone that paid upfront, so they weren't sure on how to proceed. I told them that I accept being refunded after the post graduate program is finished and now I'm waiting the HR boss to come back from vacations so he can decide if they can do that.

Ok, so you have a monthly payment of $4,500 that only lasted one month.

Also that's an insane price difference for paying up front. 

[Sibley]

My dryer broke, for the 3rd time. Everyone says "get a new one".

Except: it was free! I'm about $250 into it so far. And it was built in 1992. This thing is a tank. So unless the repair guy tells me its terminal (and he would, he did it for the washer), I'm fixing it. And I keep getting weird looks from everyone.