Author Topic: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)  (Read 3156784 times)

Trifele

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6450 on: June 29, 2019, 06:26:06 AM »
Interesting thoughts @LennStar.  I agree that at its core, the need to give something of value for something of value probably has nothing to do with money.   

There's a thriving "politeness-barter" system alive and well in my rural area.  Example:  I responded to an ad recently for free aged horse manure (for my garden).  It was beautiful stuff, and the farmer gave us a whole truckload.  I offered him some money, which he politely refused.  But he happily accepted two dozen eggs from our chickens, complementing us on their beauty.   

In a transaction like that everyone leaves feeling non-indebted, and happy about the exchange.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6451 on: June 29, 2019, 06:30:54 AM »
Nice, could have been an example from the book :D

Imma

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6452 on: June 29, 2019, 07:15:54 AM »
Yes, I think both are true. I wouldn't trust a stranger to give away a free working washing machine, so I wouldn't even respond to that. I have accepted a free washing machine from a relative's estate, because I knew it was ok. I pick up free things quite often and also give other strangers free stuff through our neighbourhood's online group, in 95% of the cases they give a token item in return. I picked up some magazines recently and I brought a box of chocolates. I guess we are just hardwired that way.

Trifele

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6453 on: June 29, 2019, 07:56:50 AM »
Maybe I should get creative with my ads, and say something like "Take it and use it for a while, then if you're happy you can pay me what you think it's worth if you want to"  or  "This thing works fine, we just don't need it.  Please take it and then pay it forward someday to someone else." 

But probably people would just think I'm a flake.  Between strangers money kind of 'sanitizes' the transaction.


Bracken_Joy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6454 on: June 29, 2019, 08:01:39 AM »
I have found if I want to give something good away free and circumvent that, is to be highly descriptive of any possible 'flaws'. Even if it's like, "this printer runs through ink really quickly, and won't run B&W copies if color inks are out, so we keep tape over the color ink cartridges" (actual one I've done). In the case of the washer, 'our old ones are way nicer, this one runs loud'. That lets people know you're being open/honest, gives them a sense of 'ah, that's why this person doesn't want to deal with this, what a great find for me!'. Makes it feel like a win.

Trifele

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6455 on: June 29, 2019, 08:12:02 AM »
I have found if I want to give something good away free and circumvent that, is to be highly descriptive of any possible 'flaws'. Even if it's like, "this printer runs through ink really quickly, and won't run B&W copies if color inks are out, so we keep tape over the color ink cartridges" (actual one I've done). In the case of the washer, 'our old ones are way nicer, this one runs loud'. That lets people know you're being open/honest, gives them a sense of 'ah, that's why this person doesn't want to deal with this, what a great find for me!'. Makes it feel like a win.

Excellent!  So in the case of my unwanted lumber, I could say "This pile is taking up too much space in our machine shed.  We were going to use it for X project but decided not to, so now we just want it gone" . . .

I tend to just have short factual ads.  Maybe a little more context will help. Thanks @Bracken_Joy 

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6456 on: June 29, 2019, 08:45:26 AM »
I have found if I want to give something good away free and circumvent that, is to be highly descriptive of any possible 'flaws'. Even if it's like, "this printer runs through ink really quickly, and won't run B&W copies if color inks are out, so we keep tape over the color ink cartridges" (actual one I've done). In the case of the washer, 'our old ones are way nicer, this one runs loud'. That lets people know you're being open/honest, gives them a sense of 'ah, that's why this person doesn't want to deal with this, what a great find for me!'. Makes it feel like a win.

Excellent!  So in the case of my unwanted lumber, I could say "This pile is taking up too much space in our machine shed.  We were going to use it for X project but decided not to, so now we just want it gone" . . .

I tend to just have short factual ads.  Maybe a little more context will help. Thanks @Bracken_Joy

Exactly! Yeah, the narrative helps a lot. Then you're not some unknown person offloading some possible trash for who knows what reason. Their brain can latch on to a 'reason'. This is also why I like Buy Nothing groups, there's more of a built in trust vs something like craigslist. (although it depends on your area, of course- I've heard some groups are pretty crappy. And if you're rural, you may not have one in your area at all).

PMG

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6457 on: June 29, 2019, 09:29:07 AM »
I have found if I want to give something good away free and circumvent that, is to be highly descriptive of any possible 'flaws'. Even if it's like, "this printer runs through ink really quickly, and won't run B&W copies if color inks are out, so we keep tape over the color ink cartridges" (actual one I've done). In the case of the washer, 'our old ones are way nicer, this one runs loud'. That lets people know you're being open/honest, gives them a sense of 'ah, that's why this person doesn't want to deal with this, what a great find for me!'. Makes it feel like a win.

Excellent!  So in the case of my unwanted lumber, I could say "This pile is taking up too much space in our machine shed.  We were going to use it for X project but decided not to, so now we just want it gone" . . .

I tend to just have short factual ads.  Maybe a little more context will help. Thanks @Bracken_Joy

Exactly! Yeah, the narrative helps a lot. Then you're not some unknown person offloading some possible trash for who knows what reason. Their brain can latch on to a 'reason'. This is also why I like Buy Nothing groups, there's more of a built in trust vs something like craigslist. (although it depends on your area, of course- I've heard some groups are pretty crappy. And if you're rural, you may not have one in your area at all).

This narrative also suggests that taking away the item is doing the giver a favor, and therefore fulfills the obligation.

Gerard

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6458 on: June 29, 2019, 11:21:52 AM »
This narrative also suggests that taking away the item is doing the giver a favor, and therefore fulfills the obligation.

See, this would be my concern. Given how aggressively people try to haggle over almost-free craigslist/kijiji stuff, I would expect this approach to attract people saying they'll take it if I pay them, as they're "taking it off my hands". Of course I would say no, but I'd still have to deal with those losers.

Or maybe I'm over-thinking this...

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6459 on: June 29, 2019, 12:44:32 PM »
We just put the items next to the street and they are usually usually gone within a day or two.

That's worked for all kinds of stuff.

Trifele

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6460 on: June 29, 2019, 02:21:59 PM »
We just put the items next to the street and they are usually usually gone within a day or two.

That's worked for all kinds of stuff.

When we lived in a town that worked great, agreed.  Our city had a semi-annual "put anything out by the curb" day, and it seemed like the whole town would go curb shopping, driving around slowly and jumping out to grab what they wanted.  People were not shy at all, and would even penetrate kind of far up into your yard.  It was well known that you better keep your belongings (the ones you wanted to keep) inside on those days.  A friend of mine lost her lawn mower by forgetting to bring it in . . .   

We live in the country now.  No streets, no curbs.  So we must either donate or run ads . . .


Zaga

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6461 on: June 29, 2019, 03:07:59 PM »
We just put the items next to the street and they are usually usually gone within a day or two.

That's worked for all kinds of stuff.

When we lived in a town that worked great, agreed.  Our city had a semi-annual "put anything out by the curb" day, and it seemed like the whole town would go curb shopping, driving around slowly and jumping out to grab what they wanted.  People were not shy at all, and would even penetrate kind of far up into your yard.  It was well known that you better keep your belongings (the ones you wanted to keep) inside on those days.  A friend of mine lost her lawn mower by forgetting to bring it in . . .   

We live in the country now.  No streets, no curbs.  So we must either donate or run ads . . .
Oh I just love big trash day!  It's such fun around here!  We get all kinds of trash pickers, but my favorite are the people who look through for metal scraps to take to sell at the recycling center.  I keep a box in the basement that I ass metal trash to, only valuable stuff like scrap copper wire.  Then I flag someone in an ancient pickup truck and lead them to me house to pick up the box once a year.  Cause we are at the end of a dead end, they may not find out trash otherwise :-)

They are probably my favorite because I did that as a kid, so I know how much they work to extract value from the scrap I give them.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6462 on: June 29, 2019, 05:09:37 PM »
We just put the items next to the street and they are usually usually gone within a day or two.

That's worked for all kinds of stuff.

When we lived in a town that worked great, agreed.  Our city had a semi-annual "put anything out by the curb" day, and it seemed like the whole town would go curb shopping, driving around slowly and jumping out to grab what they wanted.  People were not shy at all, and would even penetrate kind of far up into your yard.  It was well known that you better keep your belongings (the ones you wanted to keep) inside on those days.  A friend of mine lost her lawn mower by forgetting to bring it in . . .   

We live in the country now.  No streets, no curbs.  So we must either donate or run ads . . .
Oh I just love big trash day!  It's such fun around here!  We get all kinds of trash pickers, but my favorite are the people who look through for metal scraps to take to sell at the recycling center.  I keep a box in the basement that I ass metal trash to, only valuable stuff like scrap copper wire.  Then I flag someone in an ancient pickup truck and lead them to me house to pick up the box once a year.  Cause we are at the end of a dead end, they may not find out trash otherwise :-)

They are probably my favorite because I did that as a kid, so I know how much they work to extract value from the scrap I give them.

You have a good heart.

ScreamingHeadGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6463 on: June 29, 2019, 08:22:48 PM »
My annual work self-evaluation form had questions about where I saw myself in 1, 2, and 5 years.  After having a joke with the wife I just imagined the question included "if you're still working" and answered accordingly.   

(Yes, I'm sure others have had this same problem in the past 130 pages of this thread but I'm not going to quote all of them and say "+1".)

Linea_Norway

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6464 on: June 30, 2019, 05:14:08 AM »
In my country, there is a rule that you may not borrow money that is more than 5 times your income. Your credit limit on a credit card, is included in this total amount of what you can borrow.
In the next years, if we FIRE and stop having any income, I think there is no company that can give you a new credit card, because the credit limit will always be more than 5 times 0.
I think we will need to collect some strategic credit cards this year, while we still can.

We only need the credit cards for cash back and making payments abroad. And some nice extra travel insurance.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6465 on: June 30, 2019, 08:38:56 AM »
New MPP (very silly one):
We decided to pay off our car loan and the remainder of my student loans before the baby gets here. Decided we won't be buying a house any time soon again, don't need the cash on hand, and we'd prefer to free up the cash flow. So that brings us to our current MPP: this leaves us 100% debt free. Mint reduced my profile completion %, and is sending emails/giving pop ups asking us to add our loans!

Rosy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6466 on: June 30, 2019, 09:43:49 AM »
My take is that this is the deep ingrained capitalistic (yeah, for want of better word) mentality.

1. Most people would not give away something "valuable" for free, so free stuff can't be valuable.
2. You are only worth not starving if you work. So how can you give someone something way more expensive than bread without having him work for it?

Of course you coild also say it has nothing to do with modern capitalism, but instead goes back thousands of years. As every antropologist knows, there is no "free" present. If you accept it, you are socially indebted and have to pay that back one way or the other. (That is how the world worked before money after all. which basically means 90% of people for 90% of civilization's time.)

If you use money on the other hand, you have a) payed it already and b) you signal that there is no social connection between you. You are just stranger that don't expect to see each other again and are not required to do anything.

Debt: The first 5000 years. Read it ;)

Good points LennStar - it is the "socially indebted" hurdle that is hard to overcome unless you turn it into a "pay it forward" scenario.
I do think that most people do not want 'sumptin' for nuttin' and that is a good thing imho.

In our neighborhood - whatever I put out there is gone between one minute and two hours max, guaranteed. If it is something particularly nice people often come to the door to ask if it is OK to take away.
We also get lots of people asking whether they can have some of our fruit from the tree. Teenagers and older people mostly.
There are at two different guys with pick-ups that come around on trash day looking for metal, etc.

I'll look into your book recommendation, hopefully, the library has it for free:)

shelivesthedream

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6467 on: June 30, 2019, 10:55:18 AM »
I've had great experiences with Trashnothing, but when I've looked at free things on other places like Facebook marketplace or Gumtree, it usually turns out they're not free after all. Either they're listed as free but there's a price in the description, or the "giver" starts mentioning money once you message them. I suppose they reckon it'll drum up more interest if it's "free", and they'll get you with the sunk cost fallacy once you've got involved? So I never look at the free sections there any more because it's such a drag to sort out the genuine free vs the fake free. I'd rather pay a small amount of money to not waste my time.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6468 on: June 30, 2019, 11:05:40 AM »
New MPP (very silly one):
We decided to pay off our car loan and the remainder of my student loans before the baby gets here. Decided we won't be buying a house any time soon again, don't need the cash on hand, and we'd prefer to free up the cash flow. So that brings us to our current MPP: this leaves us 100% debt free. Mint reduced my profile completion %, and is sending emails/giving pop ups asking us to add our loans!
I suppose you could add a $1 loan from your cat.

Freedomin5

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6469 on: June 30, 2019, 09:29:33 PM »
My MPP this week:

Since we live abroad, we tried to pay off our mortgage via online banking. The website allowed me to pay off everything except $1 + $0.87 in interest. Our MPP is that DH has spent $1300 for a roundtrip flight to Canada so that he can pay off our $1.87 mortgage. If we weren't Mustachian, we would have simply renewed our mortgage for another term.

He's planning to also visit his parents, my parents, several of his friends, and spend time at the cottage to make the trip worth it. Or maybe I should reframe that: He was going to visit his parents and friends anyway; he might as well pay off the mortgage while he's there.

Trifele

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6470 on: July 01, 2019, 03:17:42 AM »
My MPP this week:

Since we live abroad, we tried to pay off our mortgage via online banking. The website allowed me to pay off everything except $1 + $0.87 in interest. Our MPP is that DH has spent $1300 for a roundtrip flight to Canada so that he can pay off our $1.87 mortgage. If we weren't Mustachian, we would have simply renewed our mortgage for another term.

He's planning to also visit his parents, my parents, several of his friends, and spend time at the cottage to make the trip worth it. Or maybe I should reframe that: He was going to visit his parents and friends anyway; he might as well pay off the mortgage while he's there.

Haha, thanks for adding that last sentence.  I was asking myself why your friends/relatives couldn't help you with that . . .

Loren Ver

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6471 on: July 01, 2019, 07:53:25 AM »
In my country, there is a rule that you may not borrow money that is more than 5 times your income. Your credit limit on a credit card, is included in this total amount of what you can borrow.
In the next years, if we FIRE and stop having any income, I think there is no company that can give you a new credit card, because the credit limit will always be more than 5 times 0.
I think we will need to collect some strategic credit cards this year, while we still can.

We only need the credit cards for cash back and making payments abroad. And some nice extra travel insurance.

That is some good planning ahead.  It sounds like a good rule, but it can cause some pinch points for people that have different life plans :).

Mesmoiselle

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6472 on: July 01, 2019, 03:08:19 PM »
I'm a medical-related contractor that usually only works about 6-9 months a year. This year will be a 21 weeks because I'm going back to school so maxing my 401k is like, have to be really exact on it. Still, I felt like I could manage it with $7105 left to go.

Until I learned this place I'm contracting through only allows 60% of income as a ceiling.  :( Sad day.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6473 on: July 03, 2019, 01:27:11 AM »
My MPP this week:

Since we live abroad, we tried to pay off our mortgage via online banking. The website allowed me to pay off everything except $1 + $0.87 in interest. Our MPP is that DH has spent $1300 for a roundtrip flight to Canada so that he can pay off our $1.87 mortgage. If we weren't Mustachian, we would have simply renewed our mortgage for another term.

He's planning to also visit his parents, my parents, several of his friends, and spend time at the cottage to make the trip worth it. Or maybe I should reframe that: He was going to visit his parents and friends anyway; he might as well pay off the mortgage while he's there.

Haha, thanks for adding that last sentence.  I was asking myself why your friends/relatives couldn't help you with that . . .
I would think because the bank requires the signer to handle this in person? Delegating this with power of attorney (is that the right term?), or something like that, may be seen as insufficient as wel as to provent fraud?

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6474 on: July 03, 2019, 05:31:01 AM »
My MPP this week:

Since we live abroad, we tried to pay off our mortgage via online banking. The website allowed me to pay off everything except $1 + $0.87 in interest. Our MPP is that DH has spent $1300 for a roundtrip flight to Canada so that he can pay off our $1.87 mortgage. If we weren't Mustachian, we would have simply renewed our mortgage for another term.

He's planning to also visit his parents, my parents, several of his friends, and spend time at the cottage to make the trip worth it. Or maybe I should reframe that: He was going to visit his parents and friends anyway; he might as well pay off the mortgage while he's there.

Haha, thanks for adding that last sentence.  I was asking myself why your friends/relatives couldn't help you with that . . .
I would think because the bank requires the signer to handle this in person? Delegating this with power of attorney (is that the right term?), or something like that, may be seen as insufficient as wel as to provent fraud?

No, it's because interest is being computed daily, so the balance from the last statement isn't correct one day later.    You ask the bank for a pay-off amount and they give you one that's good up to a certain date.   That's how it's done manually.   It doesn't have to be done in person.

Why can't the website handle it?   Possibly because there's a special feature you have to use instead (that isn't clearly marked and should be pointed out by anyone going to a "zero" balance).  Or possibly because they didn't implement that feature.   Either option would be piss-poor software development, i.e., the norm.

nouveauRiche

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6475 on: July 03, 2019, 10:04:36 AM »
MPP:  I got brand new, in package bar mops at an estate sale (basically for free - thrown in with other stuff) but now they seem "too nice" to use.

techwiz

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6476 on: July 03, 2019, 11:53:59 AM »
MPP:  I got brand new, in package bar mops at an estate sale (basically for free - thrown in with other stuff) but now they seem "too nice" to use.

I wonder if that's the same reason they were still in the package at the estate sale. Maybe the previous owner thought the same thing....

Either sell them or use them you don't want to be selling them at your estate unused still in the package!

TVRodriguez

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6477 on: July 03, 2019, 12:09:26 PM »
MPP:  I got brand new, in package bar mops at an estate sale (basically for free - thrown in with other stuff) but now they seem "too nice" to use.

I wonder if that's the same reason they were still in the package at the estate sale. Maybe the previous owner thought the same thing....

Either sell them or use them you don't want to be selling them at your estate unused still in the package!

Wow, this, yes, definitely this. 

nouveauRiche

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6478 on: July 03, 2019, 03:43:04 PM »
MPP:  I got brand new, in package bar mops at an estate sale (basically for free - thrown in with other stuff) but now they seem "too nice" to use.

I wonder if that's the same reason they were still in the package at the estate sale. Maybe the previous owner thought the same thing....

Either sell them or use them you don't want to be selling them at your estate unused still in the package!

Wow, this, yes, definitely this. 

Ha ha.  Yes, I unwrapped them, washed them, & put them with the cleaning stuff.  Years ago, I found 1/2 a bath towel at a yard sale for a quarter.  I cut that up and those have been my cleaning rags ever since.  So these "rags" are much nicer.

There was sadly a lot of new in package stuff at this sale.  I bought 3 pairs of shorts and three shirts that had the tags still on.  All I could think of was the wasted money...

Freedomin5

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6479 on: July 03, 2019, 04:38:13 PM »
My MPP this week:

Since we live abroad, we tried to pay off our mortgage via online banking. The website allowed me to pay off everything except $1 + $0.87 in interest. Our MPP is that DH has spent $1300 for a roundtrip flight to Canada so that he can pay off our $1.87 mortgage. If we weren't Mustachian, we would have simply renewed our mortgage for another term.

He's planning to also visit his parents, my parents, several of his friends, and spend time at the cottage to make the trip worth it. Or maybe I should reframe that: He was going to visit his parents and friends anyway; he might as well pay off the mortgage while he's there.

Haha, thanks for adding that last sentence.  I was asking myself why your friends/relatives couldn't help you with that . . .
I would think because the bank requires the signer to handle this in person? Delegating this with power of attorney (is that the right term?), or something like that, may be seen as insufficient as wel as to provent fraud?

No, it's because interest is being computed daily, so the balance from the last statement isn't correct one day later.    You ask the bank for a pay-off amount and they give you one that's good up to a certain date.   That's how it's done manually.   It doesn't have to be done in person.

Why can't the website handle it?   Possibly because there's a special feature you have to use instead (that isn't clearly marked and should be pointed out by anyone going to a "zero" balance).  Or possibly because they didn't implement that feature.   Either option would be piss-poor software development, i.e., the norm.

Good question.  I emailed the loan manager at the bank and never received a response. I guess they donít often deal with people paying off the mortgage via online banking and donít know the answer.

Redstone5

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6480 on: July 03, 2019, 04:39:26 PM »
I guess the person who passed away was sure they still had a lot of cleaning ahead of them to look forward to :)

My dad always tells the story of this extremely wealthy and famous business man who passed away in his late 80s (wish I could remember who it was), right after he'd just placed an order with his tailor for 10 new suits, each with two pairs of pants.

My dad always points out, "Imagine being in your elderly years and still having the confidence to assume that you would live long enough and still be active enough to need two pairs of pants to go with each suit jacket, just in case the first pair wears out" LOL

rantk81

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6481 on: July 03, 2019, 04:40:34 PM »
In my experience, "paying off" mortgages is unnecessarily complicated and convoluted.  First you need to order a "payoff statement" so that they can calculate how much it will cost you to pay off the amount on a certain date (with all the prorated interested included) and also potentially including any county recording fees, if applicable.  Sure, this is something that can easily be calculated at any time -- but every mortgage company I've had, had a "system" for doing this.  Then, they required "secure funds" for the payoff -- meaning they won't accept a personal check or an ACH... oh no, you have to WIRE the funds, which has a whole other set of outrageous fees at most banks.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6482 on: July 03, 2019, 06:31:59 PM »
In my experience, "paying off" mortgages is unnecessarily complicated and convoluted.  First you need to order a "payoff statement" so that they can calculate how much it will cost you to pay off the amount on a certain date (with all the prorated interested included) and also potentially including any county recording fees, if applicable.  Sure, this is something that can easily be calculated at any time -- but every mortgage company I've had, had a "system" for doing this.  Then, they required "secure funds" for the payoff -- meaning they won't accept a personal check or an ACH... oh no, you have to WIRE the funds, which has a whole other set of outrageous fees at most banks.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

My last several I'm pretty sure I just sent them a regular check or EFT as an extra payment for the mortgage balance plus a few hundred dollars.  They eventually figure it out down to the penny and send you a check back for whatever the leftover amount is.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6483 on: July 03, 2019, 06:38:13 PM »
In my experience, "paying off" mortgages is unnecessarily complicated and convoluted.  First you need to order a "payoff statement" so that they can calculate how much it will cost you to pay off the amount on a certain date (with all the prorated interested included) and also potentially including any county recording fees, if applicable.  Sure, this is something that can easily be calculated at any time -- but every mortgage company I've had, had a "system" for doing this.  Then, they required "secure funds" for the payoff -- meaning they won't accept a personal check or an ACH... oh no, you have to WIRE the funds, which has a whole other set of outrageous fees at most banks.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

My last several I'm pretty sure I just sent them a regular check or EFT as an extra payment for the mortgage balance plus a few hundred dollars.  They eventually figure it out down to the penny and send you a check back for whatever the leftover amount is.

That was my thought as well. Kudos!

Just figure it roughly, add a couple hundred bucks and send them a check or ACH.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6484 on: July 03, 2019, 06:48:00 PM »
In my experience, "paying off" mortgages is unnecessarily complicated and convoluted.  First you need to order a "payoff statement" so that they can calculate how much it will cost you to pay off the amount on a certain date (with all the prorated interested included) and also potentially including any county recording fees, if applicable.  Sure, this is something that can easily be calculated at any time -- but every mortgage company I've had, had a "system" for doing this.  Then, they required "secure funds" for the payoff -- meaning they won't accept a personal check or an ACH... oh no, you have to WIRE the funds, which has a whole other set of outrageous fees at most banks.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

My last several I'm pretty sure I just sent them a regular check or EFT as an extra payment for the mortgage balance plus a few hundred dollars.  They eventually figure it out down to the penny and send you a check back for whatever the leftover amount is.

That was my thought as well. Kudos!

Just figure it roughly, add a couple hundred bucks and send them a check or ACH.

Really wish I could have done that with my mortgage loan services in the past!  Mine had gone out of their way to say they would reject/return any payment for payoff without first getting the payoff statement and using certified funds!

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6485 on: July 03, 2019, 07:24:17 PM »
In my experience, "paying off" mortgages is unnecessarily complicated and convoluted.  First you need to order a "payoff statement" so that they can calculate how much it will cost you to pay off the amount on a certain date (with all the prorated interested included) and also potentially including any county recording fees, if applicable.  Sure, this is something that can easily be calculated at any time -- but every mortgage company I've had, had a "system" for doing this.  Then, they required "secure funds" for the payoff -- meaning they won't accept a personal check or an ACH... oh no, you have to WIRE the funds, which has a whole other set of outrageous fees at most banks.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

My last several I'm pretty sure I just sent them a regular check or EFT as an extra payment for the mortgage balance plus a few hundred dollars.  They eventually figure it out down to the penny and send you a check back for whatever the leftover amount is.

That was my thought as well. Kudos!

Just figure it roughly, add a couple hundred bucks and send them a check or ACH.

Really wish I could have done that with my mortgage loan services in the past!  Mine had gone out of their way to say they would reject/return any payment for payoff without first getting the payoff statement and using certified funds!

Huh...itís almost like they DONíT want you to pay off your mortgage. :D

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6486 on: July 04, 2019, 03:40:54 PM »
I guess the person who passed away was sure they still had a lot of cleaning ahead of them to look forward to :)

My dad always tells the story of this extremely wealthy and famous business man who passed away in his late 80s (wish I could remember who it was), right after he'd just placed an order with his tailor for 10 new suits, each with two pairs of pants.

My dad always points out, "Imagine being in your elderly years and still having the confidence to assume that you would live long enough and still be active enough to need two pairs of pants to go with each suit jacket, just in case the first pair wears out" LOL

That reminds me of the story of Haakon Lie, an important Norwegian political figure in the labour movement. After turning 90, he decided to invest in a heat pump for his house, happily declaring that the payback time was less than 10 years. He lived until 103.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6487 on: July 04, 2019, 08:24:41 PM »
In my experience, "paying off" mortgages is unnecessarily complicated and convoluted.  First you need to order a "payoff statement" so that they can calculate how much it will cost you to pay off the amount on a certain date (with all the prorated interested included) and also potentially including any county recording fees, if applicable.  Sure, this is something that can easily be calculated at any time -- but every mortgage company I've had, had a "system" for doing this.  Then, they required "secure funds" for the payoff -- meaning they won't accept a personal check or an ACH... oh no, you have to WIRE the funds, which has a whole other set of outrageous fees at most banks.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

This was done to me, once, and it irritated me.  So while I still believe (depending on the interest rate) that you are generally ahead getting out of debt ASAP, after that instance I accelerated payments (I believe it is called curtailing principal) until within 2 - 3 months of payoff.  Then I stopped the extra payments and let the loan wind itself down via the regular autodeduction from the bank.  It is worth cutting off the autopayment once you know you're done, in case they don't immediately realize they have switched from discharging your debt to them, to them stealing from you.  In any case - or I should say, in every case - where I've done it this way they eventually figure out they've overcharged a few dollars; turning off the autodeduction yourself just means their eventual refund of the overcharge is a bit smaller. 

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6488 on: July 04, 2019, 08:40:24 PM »
In my experience, "paying off" mortgages is unnecessarily complicated and convoluted.  First you need to order a "payoff statement" so that they can calculate how much it will cost you to pay off the amount on a certain date (with all the prorated interested included) and also potentially including any county recording fees, if applicable.  Sure, this is something that can easily be calculated at any time -- but every mortgage company I've had, had a "system" for doing this.  Then, they required "secure funds" for the payoff -- meaning they won't accept a personal check or an ACH... oh no, you have to WIRE the funds, which has a whole other set of outrageous fees at most banks.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

This was done to me, once, and it irritated me.  So while I still believe (depending on the interest rate) that you are generally ahead getting out of debt ASAP, after that instance I accelerated payments (I believe it is called curtailing principal) until within 2 - 3 months of payoff.  Then I stopped the extra payments and let the loan wind itself down via the regular autodeduction from the bank.  It is worth cutting off the autopayment once you know you're done, in case they don't immediately realize they have switched from discharging your debt to them, to them stealing from you.  In any case - or I should say, in every case - where I've done it this way they eventually figure out they've overcharged a few dollars; turning off the autodeduction yourself just means their eventual refund of the overcharge is a bit smaller.

And after they acknowledge you've paid it off, contact your county registrar of deeds (or local government equivalent) about a month later to verify they removed the mortgage lien from your property.  Otherwise, that will be discovered at the last minute when you try to sell your house in the future.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6489 on: July 04, 2019, 09:51:42 PM »
DH went to the bank and paid off the mortgage yesterday. However, we did not discharge the mortgage because there is a $260 discharge fee. This fee can be waived if we get another mortgage with the bank, as the bank will then discharge the old mortgage and set up the new one. It is possible that we will purchase another property in the future  and will need another mortgage. My MPP is that now I have to remember that this old mortgage has not been discharged and then to remember to ask for the fee to be waived a couple years in the future if/when we get a new mortgage.

My parents MPP was that they never discharged their mortgage after paying it off, and when they sold their house 15 years later, they werenít able to do so until they dug up all the old mortgage statements proving that they had paid off the mortgage.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6490 on: July 04, 2019, 10:10:47 PM »
DH went to the bank and paid off the mortgage yesterday. However, we did not discharge the mortgage because there is a $260 discharge fee. This fee can be waived if we get another mortgage with the bank, as the bank will then discharge the old mortgage and set up the new one. It is possible that we will purchase another property in the future  and will need another mortgage. My MPP is that now I have to remember that this old mortgage has not been discharged and then to remember to ask for the fee to be waived a couple years in the future if/when we get a new mortgage.

My parents MPP was that they never discharged their mortgage after paying it off, and when they sold their house 15 years later, they werenít able to do so until they dug up all the old mortgage statements proving that they had paid off the mortgage.

That's a fair bit of risk and headache for $260.   A leaky roof or leaky plumbing while you're out of town could destroy those records.   

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6491 on: July 04, 2019, 10:15:35 PM »
DH went to the bank and paid off the mortgage yesterday. However, we did not discharge the mortgage because there is a $260 discharge fee. This fee can be waived if we get another mortgage with the bank, as the bank will then discharge the old mortgage and set up the new one. It is possible that we will purchase another property in the future  and will need another mortgage. My MPP is that now I have to remember that this old mortgage has not been discharged and then to remember to ask for the fee to be waived a couple years in the future if/when we get a new mortgage.

My parents MPP was that they never discharged their mortgage after paying it off, and when they sold their house 15 years later, they werenít able to do so until they dug up all the old mortgage statements proving that they had paid off the mortgage.
Is that standard practice?  It sure seems kinda scummy to me: "Hey, we know you paid off the debt, but we won't officially discharge it until you pay us this BS fee."

Freedomin5

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6492 on: July 04, 2019, 11:38:28 PM »
DH went to the bank and paid off the mortgage yesterday. However, we did not discharge the mortgage because there is a $260 discharge fee. This fee can be waived if we get another mortgage with the bank, as the bank will then discharge the old mortgage and set up the new one. It is possible that we will purchase another property in the future  and will need another mortgage. My MPP is that now I have to remember that this old mortgage has not been discharged and then to remember to ask for the fee to be waived a couple years in the future if/when we get a new mortgage.

My parents MPP was that they never discharged their mortgage after paying it off, and when they sold their house 15 years later, they werenít able to do so until they dug up all the old mortgage statements proving that they had paid off the mortgage.
Is that standard practice?  It sure seems kinda scummy to me: "Hey, we know you paid off the debt, but we won't officially discharge it until you pay us this BS fee."

Yes, standard practice. Itís with one of the largest banks in Canada. We will probably get a new mortgage within the next year or two, at which point we will discharge this mortgage. We like mortgage money because the interest rates are typically quite low. This last mortgage had an interest rate of 2.34%.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6493 on: July 05, 2019, 01:39:33 AM »
DH went to the bank and paid off the mortgage yesterday. However, we did not discharge the mortgage because there is a $260 discharge fee. This fee can be waived if we get another mortgage with the bank, as the bank will then discharge the old mortgage and set up the new one. It is possible that we will purchase another property in the future  and will need another mortgage. My MPP is that now I have to remember that this old mortgage has not been discharged and then to remember to ask for the fee to be waived a couple years in the future if/when we get a new mortgage.

My parents MPP was that they never discharged their mortgage after paying it off, and when they sold their house 15 years later, they werenít able to do so until they dug up all the old mortgage statements proving that they had paid off the mortgage.
Is that standard practice?  It sure seems kinda scummy to me: "Hey, we know you paid off the debt, but we won't officially discharge it until you pay us this BS fee."

It's totally scummy, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't disclosed when the mortgage was created

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6494 on: July 05, 2019, 09:24:04 AM »
DH went to the bank and paid off the mortgage yesterday. However, we did not discharge the mortgage because there is a $260 discharge fee. This fee can be waived if we get another mortgage with the bank, as the bank will then discharge the old mortgage and set up the new one. It is possible that we will purchase another property in the future  and will need another mortgage. My MPP is that now I have to remember that this old mortgage has not been discharged and then to remember to ask for the fee to be waived a couple years in the future if/when we get a new mortgage.

My parents MPP was that they never discharged their mortgage after paying it off, and when they sold their house 15 years later, they werenít able to do so until they dug up all the old mortgage statements proving that they had paid off the mortgage.
Is that standard practice?  It sure seems kinda scummy to me: "Hey, we know you paid off the debt, but we won't officially discharge it until you pay us this BS fee."

Yes, standard practice. Itís with one of the largest banks in Canada. We will probably get a new mortgage within the next year or two, at which point we will discharge this mortgage. We like mortgage money because the interest rates are typically quite low. This last mortgage had an interest rate of 2.34%.

My bank didn't charge me extra when I  paid off my mortgage. Instead I got a card signed by all my branch staff congratulating me.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6495 on: July 06, 2019, 06:52:59 AM »

My bank didn't charge me extra when I  paid off my mortgage. Instead I got a card signed by all my branch staff congratulating me.

Now THAT is a great use of a couple of bucks. Because of that small gesture, who here would not go back to this bank first to get a competitive rate on your next loan. I know I would.

+1 for your bank

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6496 on: July 08, 2019, 07:01:38 AM »

My bank didn't charge me extra when I  paid off my mortgage. Instead I got a card signed by all my branch staff congratulating me.

Wow, this is great customer service from a bank. I suspect this happened a long time ago or in a small town branch where they dont' have high turnover of staff?  I haven't seen that kind of personal touch from the banks in decades.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6497 on: July 08, 2019, 07:13:44 AM »

My bank didn't charge me extra when I  paid off my mortgage. Instead I got a card signed by all my branch staff congratulating me.

Wow, this is great customer service from a bank. I suspect this happened a long time ago or in a small town branch where they dont' have high turnover of staff?  I haven't seen that kind of personal touch from the banks in decades.

Just a few years ago. Small town branch, moderate turnover rate. It is known internally as a good branch.  But I have also gotten great service from a branch in Ottawa.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6498 on: July 08, 2019, 10:15:19 AM »
I have a new MPP today. We are finally making the very mustachian move of downsizing our 3690 square foot clown house to a 1642 square foot townhome nearby. It's about a mile from our current home, same schools, shortens our work commute from 2 miles to 1 mile each way. We have qualified to carry our current mortgage, a heloc to pay a 25% down payment, and the new mortgage...BUT the initial lender we chose will not believe us that we are downsizing and is considering the purchase "investment property" which means the rate they are offering is a full point higher. WTF!! We have a listing agreement and are putting our house on the market next week once we're finished getting it prepped for sale. Evidently we are "too young" to be downsizing and cannot convince this lender that the purchase will be our new primary residence.

Now, it's very likely our current home will sell and we'll close escrow on it first before escrow closes on the purchase, in which case we no longer have this problem, but it isn't guaranteed and the seller accepted our offer because it wasn't contingent on the sale of our first home. But, seriously?! I am both annoyed because now we have to spend time and energy that we don't have on this, and offended that they don't believe we are downsizing in the same area with two kids still at home.

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6499 on: July 08, 2019, 10:40:15 AM »
I have a new MPP today. We are finally making the very mustachian move of downsizing our 3690 square foot clown house to a 1642 square foot townhome nearby. It's about a mile from our current home, same schools, shortens our work commute from 2 miles to 1 mile each way. We have qualified to carry our current mortgage, a heloc to pay a 25% down payment, and the new mortgage...BUT the initial lender we chose will not believe us that we are downsizing and is considering the purchase "investment property" which means the rate they are offering is a full point higher. WTF!! We have a listing agreement and are putting our house on the market next week once we're finished getting it prepped for sale. Evidently we are "too young" to be downsizing and cannot convince this lender that the purchase will be our new primary residence.

Now, it's very likely our current home will sell and we'll close escrow on it first before escrow closes on the purchase, in which case we no longer have this problem, but it isn't guaranteed and the seller accepted our offer because it wasn't contingent on the sale of our first home. But, seriously?! I am both annoyed because now we have to spend time and energy that we don't have on this, and offended that they don't believe we are downsizing in the same area with two kids still at home.

Do you have a blog of longstanding that covers you and your goals?

You've got over 1000 posts on this forum.   Make an appointment with them, show them your account on this forum, typical posts you've made (there's a link on your profile to them), and relevant articles.
Might help convince them.