Author Topic: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)  (Read 3656877 times)

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6150 on: March 24, 2019, 08:10:22 PM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.
And that is still legal where you live?
Why would that be illegal?  Uncommon, sure but illegal?

Most enlightened countries outlawed employment years ago.  Ever since the machines took over, a citizens dividend (or equivalent) has been the norm throughout civilization

Threshkin

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6151 on: March 24, 2019, 09:52:45 PM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.
And that is still legal where you live?
Why would that be illegal?  Uncommon, sure but illegal?

Most enlightened countries outlawed employment years ago.  Ever since the machines took over, a citizens dividend (or equivalent) has been the norm throughout civilization

<Grin> I have been enjoying my unemployment for almost 2.5 years.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6152 on: March 25, 2019, 02:02:57 AM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.
And that is still legal where you live?
Why would that be illegal?  Uncommon, sure but illegal?
Here in socialist Germany it is illegal to not use bank transfer to pay people, to make sure the money is visible and not given "black" = without paying taxes and social security insurance.

Of course I am not sure if a check is legal or not here. I doubt it, but since nobody uses them to pay people for probably longer as I am alive...

Imma

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6153 on: March 25, 2019, 03:12:37 AM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.
And that is still legal where you live?
Why would that be illegal?  Uncommon, sure but illegal?
Here in socialist Germany it is illegal to not use bank transfer to pay people, to make sure the money is visible and not given "black" = without paying taxes and social security insurance.

Of course I am not sure if a check is legal or not here. I doubt it, but since nobody uses them to pay people for probably longer as I am alive...

In NL at least the minimum wage has to be paid into a bank account and I haven't seen a check used in my life either. But it seems that in the US many people don't have bank accounts.

My MPP: I bought some new bras and received €5 store credit that is linked to my personal account and only valid for 3 months. I just bought new bras, I'm not going to need more new ones before the summer!

Linea_Norway

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6154 on: March 25, 2019, 03:28:24 AM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.
And that is still legal where you live?
Why would that be illegal?  Uncommon, sure but illegal?
Here in socialist Germany it is illegal to not use bank transfer to pay people, to make sure the money is visible and not given "black" = without paying taxes and social security insurance.

Of course I am not sure if a check is legal or not here. I doubt it, but since nobody uses them to pay people for probably longer as I am alive...

In NL at least the minimum wage has to be paid into a bank account and I haven't seen a check used in my life either. But it seems that in the US many people don't have bank accounts.

When I arrived in Norway in 1998 I did not have a bank account immediately. That was a problem for my company, so they got me a bank account which their bank. Then they had a place to transfer the money to. For us in Europe it is hard to understand that the US is so "old fashioned" with checks, while we do everything electronically. Although checks in shops have been a valid way for paying for a very long time also after 1998. It still seems to be a valid payment method today. The banks have made it expensive to use, so people just use their cards instead.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6155 on: March 25, 2019, 04:15:40 AM »
My MPP: I bought some new bras and received €5 store credit that is linked to my personal account and only valid for 3 months. I just bought new bras, I'm not going to need more new ones before the summer!
Which is exactly the reason why they gave you the 5€. Because you feel pressed to use them. 

And some people still wonder what all that talk about consumerism is ;)

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6156 on: March 25, 2019, 05:27:46 AM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.
And that is still legal where you live?
Why would that be illegal?  Uncommon, sure but illegal?
Here in socialist Germany it is illegal to not use bank transfer to pay people, to make sure the money is visible and not given "black" = without paying taxes and social security insurance.

Of course I am not sure if a check is legal or not here. I doubt it, but since nobody uses them to pay people for probably longer as I am alive...

In NL at least the minimum wage has to be paid into a bank account and I haven't seen a check used in my life either. But it seems that in the US many people don't have bank accounts.

When I arrived in Norway in 1998 I did not have a bank account immediately. That was a problem for my company, so they got me a bank account which their bank. Then they had a place to transfer the money to. For us in Europe it is hard to understand that the US is so "old fashioned" with checks, while we do everything electronically. Although checks in shops have been a valid way for paying for a very long time also after 1998. It still seems to be a valid payment method today. The banks have made it expensive to use, so people just use their cards instead.

I don't think I've seen a cheque in 20 years, here in NZ. There might be some old people that still use them. I don't think I've carried cash in about 10 years.

Imma

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6157 on: March 25, 2019, 06:08:23 AM »
My MPP: I bought some new bras and received €5 store credit that is linked to my personal account and only valid for 3 months. I just bought new bras, I'm not going to need more new ones before the summer!
Which is exactly the reason why they gave you the 5€. Because you feel pressed to use them. 

And some people still wonder what all that talk about consumerism is ;)

The credit used to be valid for 12 months so this was not a nice surprise. Now it's valid for only 3 months there's no point in using the loyalty card anymore. If I don't get the credit anymore, they don't get the data anymore :)

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6158 on: March 25, 2019, 10:37:10 AM »
In the US bank accounts are expensive, unless you have money to let sit in them. And they can be hard to open if you have bad credit.

There was an issue with places paying (mostly minimum wage) employees with debit cards that charged various fees that basically meant the only free use of your money was to pull it all out at once, within a short time span.

So much so, that we have places passing laws prohibiting cashless establishments, because they are excluding a large part of the population.

LennStar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6159 on: March 25, 2019, 11:30:11 AM »
So much so, that we have places passing laws prohibiting cashless establishments, because they are excluding a large part of the population.
Well, in Socialist Germany we don't fordid such things.
We just mandate that everyone has to accept Euro. Since coins and bills are the only Euro there is, you have to accept cash ;)
Of course you can accept other things, like the electronic things that make banks increase your account, but that is up to you.

sherr

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6160 on: March 25, 2019, 11:54:58 AM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.

You might want to reconsider and just deposit your checks regularly; I would consider your behavior slightly inconsiderate. More so if you were not cashing checks from actual people and not just a company, but still.

People have to balance their checkbooks. Companies don't want to have to account for money they've already paid out but is for some reason still sitting in their account. It's clearly bothering people since they keep asking you about it, is it really so much of a bother to swing by an ATM once a month?

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6161 on: March 25, 2019, 12:44:34 PM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.

You might want to reconsider and just deposit your checks regularly; I would consider your behavior slightly inconsiderate. More so if you were not cashing checks from actual people and not just a company, but still.

People have to balance their checkbooks. Companies don't want to have to account for money they've already paid out but is for some reason still sitting in their account. It's clearly bothering people since they keep asking you about it, is it really so much of a bother to swing by an ATM once a month?

Considering you can usually do it with your phone, there’s not much of an excuse

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6162 on: March 25, 2019, 12:59:03 PM »
My current employer hands out paper checks instead of direct deposit. I'm constantly being asked if I have received my checks as I am in no rush to cash them in. The benefit of not living paycheck to paycheck.

You might want to reconsider and just deposit your checks regularly; I would consider your behavior slightly inconsiderate. More so if you were not cashing checks from actual people and not just a company, but still.

People have to balance their checkbooks. Companies don't want to have to account for money they've already paid out but is for some reason still sitting in their account. It's clearly bothering people since they keep asking you about it, is it really so much of a bother to swing by an ATM once a month?

Considering you can usually do it with your phone, there’s not much of an excuse

If the company was that bothered they could arrange for direct deposit. It'd be different if it was individuals writing the cheques.

kelvin

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6163 on: March 25, 2019, 07:07:37 PM »

Most enlightened countries outlawed employment years ago.  Ever since the machines took over, a citizens dividend (or equivalent) has been the norm throughout civilization

(Chanting) MIN-COME! MIN-COME! MIN-COME!


 Thanks for the laugh, dragoncar.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6164 on: March 26, 2019, 02:25:25 AM »
So much so, that we have places passing laws prohibiting cashless establishments, because they are excluding a large part of the population.
Well, in Socialist Germany we don't fordid such things.
We just mandate that everyone has to accept Euro. Since coins and bills are the only Euro there is, you have to accept cash ;)
Of course you can accept other things, like the electronic things that make banks increase your account, but that is up to you.
Well, your western neighbour (Netherlands) has the same mandate but there are more and more shops where only electronic payment is possible. Since electronic payment is performed in Euro these shops say they are following mandate. My employer (housing) also does not accept cash but that is mainly to prevent fraude where someone subrents out his house illegaly for a much larger sum, gets paid in cash and then pays his rent in cash.

There was some discussion in parlement recently about this, because appearently some (medically licensed) apothecary's stopped accepting cash and people who needed meds which required an additional payment couldn't get them because they only had cash. The apothecary in question is in a questionable neighbourhood and has been robbed a few times.

Sugaree

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6165 on: March 28, 2019, 09:39:54 AM »
I have two MPPs today.  The first is that it's payday, but I scheduled all my transfers and payments earlier in the week so I didn't have to do anything except double check my spreadsheet.  I don't even get to update the net worth tab until Monday.  I like playing with my money dammit (as long as I'm just moving it from one of my accounts to another and not paying someone else).

The second problem is that I met with a rep from the HDHP that I'm probably going to switch to next open season.  She...said I should consider a standard plan instead (I already have one of those.
 I was asking how the preauthorization worked on one of my husband's prescriptions because his doctor's office is notoriously late getting the paperwork filed on it).  Then she had to go to her car to get the brochure because I'm the only person who ever asks about it. 

ixtap

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6166 on: March 28, 2019, 12:22:41 PM »
I have two MPPs today.  The first is that it's payday, but I scheduled all my transfers and payments earlier in the week so I didn't have to do anything except double check my spreadsheet.  I don't even get to update the net worth tab until Monday.  I like playing with my money dammit (as long as I'm just moving it from one of my accounts to another and not paying someone else).

The second problem is that I met with a rep from the HDHP that I'm probably going to switch to next open season.  She...said I should consider a standard plan instead (I already have one of those.
 I was asking how the preauthorization worked on one of my husband's prescriptions because his doctor's office is notoriously late getting the paperwork filed on it).  Then she had to go to her car to get the brochure because I'm the only person who ever asks about it.

What do other people do on pay day?!

Sugaree

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6167 on: March 28, 2019, 12:32:32 PM »
I have two MPPs today.  The first is that it's payday, but I scheduled all my transfers and payments earlier in the week so I didn't have to do anything except double check my spreadsheet.  I don't even get to update the net worth tab until Monday.  I like playing with my money dammit (as long as I'm just moving it from one of my accounts to another and not paying someone else).

The second problem is that I met with a rep from the HDHP that I'm probably going to switch to next open season.  She...said I should consider a standard plan instead (I already have one of those.
 I was asking how the preauthorization worked on one of my husband's prescriptions because his doctor's office is notoriously late getting the paperwork filed on it).  Then she had to go to her car to get the brochure because I'm the only person who ever asks about it.

What do other people do on pay day?!

Spend it immediately from what I can tell.

Imma

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6168 on: March 28, 2019, 04:12:14 PM »
So much so, that we have places passing laws prohibiting cashless establishments, because they are excluding a large part of the population.
Well, in Socialist Germany we don't fordid such things.
We just mandate that everyone has to accept Euro. Since coins and bills are the only Euro there is, you have to accept cash ;)
Of course you can accept other things, like the electronic things that make banks increase your account, but that is up to you.
Well, your western neighbour (Netherlands) has the same mandate but there are more and more shops where only electronic payment is possible. Since electronic payment is performed in Euro these shops say they are following mandate. My employer (housing) also does not accept cash but that is mainly to prevent fraude where someone subrents out his house illegaly for a much larger sum, gets paid in cash and then pays his rent in cash.

There was some discussion in parlement recently about this, because appearently some (medically licensed) apothecary's stopped accepting cash and people who needed meds which required an additional payment couldn't get them because they only had cash. The apothecary in question is in a questionable neighbourhood and has been robbed a few times.

I understand electronic payment is much more convenient for business owners, but what I dislike is that in our country paying cash is starting to get frowned upon / associated with crime. It's true that many criminals have loads of cash to spend, but paying cash in itself is not a shady thing to do and shouldn't be seen as such. In fact I think paying cash is a very useful budgeting tool for some people. I think many people have no idea how far advanced the cashless society already is. For example, if you need to prove you've paid certain expenses for tax purposes, like childcare, you can't just prove it with a signed receipt from the childcare organisation. You also need to show a bank statement showing that you've taken out that exact amount of money in cash right before the payment, or the taxman can legally assume you're laundering money.

I understand the fight against the illegal economy (I live in the south, narco's rule this place) but at the same time, you don't want to put the whole informal economy under government watch. There's nothing wrong with people making a little bit of cash through selling used items or occasionally (not as a real job) providing services to friends or neighbours like fixing a bike or cleaning a home. The informal economy  = not necessary criminal and fullfills an important role in society. 

APowers

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6169 on: March 29, 2019, 01:09:25 AM »
MPP: my income for 2018 is $2k too high to qualify for Turbotax's free-file system, so now I have to RE-enter all my info into a different free e-file system.

Also MPP....income is higher this year than it's ever been (AGI ~$36k), and now I have these stupid rich people problems, like....taxes.

Cool Friend

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6170 on: March 29, 2019, 11:35:44 AM »
Noticed that my student loan servicer didn't auto-debit at the end of this month, so I logged in to my account and found that my next payment won't be until January of 2020.  Apparently a big lump payment I made in February pushed my next required payment all the way into next year!

So they're working to put my next due payment for next month back on track, and meanwhile I made a one-time payment for this month.

RWD

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6171 on: March 29, 2019, 12:00:52 PM »
Noticed that my student loan servicer didn't auto-debit at the end of this month, so I logged in to my account and found that my next payment won't be until January of 2020.  Apparently a big lump payment I made in February pushed my next required payment all the way into next year!

So they're working to put my next due payment for next month back on track, and meanwhile I made a one-time payment for this month.

Yeah, you definitely want to make sure everything is in order here. I have heard of some sleazy lenders that will prepay future interest instead of principal with a lump sum.

rantk81

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6172 on: March 29, 2019, 12:43:54 PM »
Noticed that my student loan servicer didn't auto-debit at the end of this month, so I logged in to my account and found that my next payment won't be until January of 2020.  Apparently a big lump payment I made in February pushed my next required payment all the way into next year!

So they're working to put my next due payment for next month back on track, and meanwhile I made a one-time payment for this month.

Yeah, you definitely want to make sure everything is in order here. I have heard of some sleazy lenders that will prepay future interest instead of principal with a lump sum.

That should be illegal.

RWD

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6173 on: March 29, 2019, 01:07:08 PM »
Noticed that my student loan servicer didn't auto-debit at the end of this month, so I logged in to my account and found that my next payment won't be until January of 2020.  Apparently a big lump payment I made in February pushed my next required payment all the way into next year!

So they're working to put my next due payment for next month back on track, and meanwhile I made a one-time payment for this month.

Yeah, you definitely want to make sure everything is in order here. I have heard of some sleazy lenders that will prepay future interest instead of principal with a lump sum.

That should be illegal.

It's called advance due date and it is a very common practice:
https://lendedu.com/blog/shouldnt-advance-due-date-on-student-loans/

Maybe I worded my statement weird, but essentially you are paying the next month's payment but even though you already gave them the money they will pretend like they didn't get it until the next payment is due. Hence you'll pay the same amount of interest even though you paid early.

Cool Friend

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6174 on: March 29, 2019, 01:23:09 PM »
Noticed that my student loan servicer didn't auto-debit at the end of this month, so I logged in to my account and found that my next payment won't be until January of 2020.  Apparently a big lump payment I made in February pushed my next required payment all the way into next year!

So they're working to put my next due payment for next month back on track, and meanwhile I made a one-time payment for this month.

Yeah, you definitely want to make sure everything is in order here. I have heard of some sleazy lenders that will prepay future interest instead of principal with a lump sum.

That should be illegal.

It's called advance due date and it is a very common practice:
https://lendedu.com/blog/shouldnt-advance-due-date-on-student-loans/

Maybe I worded my statement weird, but essentially you are paying the next month's payment but even though you already gave them the money they will pretend like they didn't get it until the next payment is due. Hence you'll pay the same amount of interest even though you paid early.

Ahh, weird!

In my case, I paid a lump $10,000.  In my account info, it tells me that $9,976.72 was applied to the principal (the remainder applied to interest), and indeed, my current loan balance reflects that.  So I should be safe right?  In the situation you're describing, would my loan balance would remain the same after having paid the lump sum, with the lump sum being applied to the balance every month?

RWD

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6175 on: March 29, 2019, 01:57:29 PM »
Noticed that my student loan servicer didn't auto-debit at the end of this month, so I logged in to my account and found that my next payment won't be until January of 2020.  Apparently a big lump payment I made in February pushed my next required payment all the way into next year!

So they're working to put my next due payment for next month back on track, and meanwhile I made a one-time payment for this month.

Yeah, you definitely want to make sure everything is in order here. I have heard of some sleazy lenders that will prepay future interest instead of principal with a lump sum.

That should be illegal.

It's called advance due date and it is a very common practice:
https://lendedu.com/blog/shouldnt-advance-due-date-on-student-loans/

Maybe I worded my statement weird, but essentially you are paying the next month's payment but even though you already gave them the money they will pretend like they didn't get it until the next payment is due. Hence you'll pay the same amount of interest even though you paid early.

Ahh, weird!

In my case, I paid a lump $10,000.  In my account info, it tells me that $9,976.72 was applied to the principal (the remainder applied to interest), and indeed, my current loan balance reflects that.  So I should be safe right?  In the situation you're describing, would my loan balance would remain the same after having paid the lump sum, with the lump sum being applied to the balance every month?

You are probably fine. I am not entirely sure what it would look like. I imagine it would decrease your principal (plus new interest) one payment at a time until the initial payment was exhausted.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6176 on: March 29, 2019, 02:05:09 PM »
So much so, that we have places passing laws prohibiting cashless establishments, because they are excluding a large part of the population.
Well, in Socialist Germany we don't fordid such things.
We just mandate that everyone has to accept Euro. Since coins and bills are the only Euro there is, you have to accept cash ;)
Of course you can accept other things, like the electronic things that make banks increase your account, but that is up to you.
Well, your western neighbour (Netherlands) has the same mandate but there are more and more shops where only electronic payment is possible. Since electronic payment is performed in Euro these shops say they are following mandate. My employer (housing) also does not accept cash but that is mainly to prevent fraude where someone subrents out his house illegaly for a much larger sum, gets paid in cash and then pays his rent in cash.

There was some discussion in parlement recently about this, because appearently some (medically licensed) apothecary's stopped accepting cash and people who needed meds which required an additional payment couldn't get them because they only had cash. The apothecary in question is in a questionable neighbourhood and has been robbed a few times.

I understand electronic payment is much more convenient for business owners, but what I dislike is that in our country paying cash is starting to get frowned upon / associated with crime. It's true that many criminals have loads of cash to spend, but paying cash in itself is not a shady thing to do and shouldn't be seen as such. In fact I think paying cash is a very useful budgeting tool for some people. I think many people have no idea how far advanced the cashless society already is. For example, if you need to prove you've paid certain expenses for tax purposes, like childcare, you can't just prove it with a signed receipt from the childcare organisation. You also need to show a bank statement showing that you've taken out that exact amount of money in cash right before the payment, or the taxman can legally assume you're laundering money.

I understand the fight against the illegal economy (I live in the south, narco's rule this place) but at the same time, you don't want to put the whole informal economy under government watch. There's nothing wrong with people making a little bit of cash through selling used items or occasionally (not as a real job) providing services to friends or neighbours like fixing a bike or cleaning a home. The informal economy  = not necessary criminal and fullfills an important role in society.

I understand you point but there is a large grey area in cash payment. In the daycare example, this is resolved at our end by the fact that you have to work a minimum number of hours to be eligible for a subsidy. Both the employer and the daycare have to report your hours+income/cost. If you don't have enough working hours because your boss pays you partly in cash without taxes then you simply cannot receive the subsidy. Pay taxes, get cheaper daycare.
My wife works too few hours for the amount of daycare we receive though so we are only partially subsidized. The city wanted to sponsor us but for 80,- per month more we can also use daycare during the school holidays :P Since we are mustachian this is no problem.

The law over here is also that at least minimum wage is paid by wire, the amount over minimum wage can be paid in cash. This is for a few reasons I can think of:
1. If you owe someone money, this makes it possible to deduct part of the with a judge's approval
2. Most costs like housing, electric, healthcare etc. Can only be paid via bank transfer, if you have at least the bare minimum there are fewer chances of not being able to pay on time.


Threshkin

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6177 on: March 29, 2019, 05:31:20 PM »
Back in the dark days when I had loans to pay when I made additional payments I always put "Apply to principal only" or similar on the check and on the paper statement if there was one.  I also always made two payments.  One for the regular amount due and one for the extra payment.

This was on the advice of the lenders.  Worked for me.

(Dating myself by not using electronic payments.)

Imma

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6178 on: March 30, 2019, 01:27:00 AM »
So much so, that we have places passing laws prohibiting cashless establishments, because they are excluding a large part of the population.
Well, in Socialist Germany we don't fordid such things.
We just mandate that everyone has to accept Euro. Since coins and bills are the only Euro there is, you have to accept cash ;)
Of course you can accept other things, like the electronic things that make banks increase your account, but that is up to you.
Well, your western neighbour (Netherlands) has the same mandate but there are more and more shops where only electronic payment is possible. Since electronic payment is performed in Euro these shops say they are following mandate. My employer (housing) also does not accept cash but that is mainly to prevent fraude where someone subrents out his house illegaly for a much larger sum, gets paid in cash and then pays his rent in cash.

There was some discussion in parlement recently about this, because appearently some (medically licensed) apothecary's stopped accepting cash and people who needed meds which required an additional payment couldn't get them because they only had cash. The apothecary in question is in a questionable neighbourhood and has been robbed a few times.

I understand electronic payment is much more convenient for business owners, but what I dislike is that in our country paying cash is starting to get frowned upon / associated with crime. It's true that many criminals have loads of cash to spend, but paying cash in itself is not a shady thing to do and shouldn't be seen as such. In fact I think paying cash is a very useful budgeting tool for some people. I think many people have no idea how far advanced the cashless society already is. For example, if you need to prove you've paid certain expenses for tax purposes, like childcare, you can't just prove it with a signed receipt from the childcare organisation. You also need to show a bank statement showing that you've taken out that exact amount of money in cash right before the payment, or the taxman can legally assume you're laundering money.

I understand the fight against the illegal economy (I live in the south, narco's rule this place) but at the same time, you don't want to put the whole informal economy under government watch. There's nothing wrong with people making a little bit of cash through selling used items or occasionally (not as a real job) providing services to friends or neighbours like fixing a bike or cleaning a home. The informal economy  = not necessary criminal and fullfills an important role in society.

I understand you point but there is a large grey area in cash payment. In the daycare example, this is resolved at our end by the fact that you have to work a minimum number of hours to be eligible for a subsidy. Both the employer and the daycare have to report your hours+income/cost. If you don't have enough working hours because your boss pays you partly in cash without taxes then you simply cannot receive the subsidy. Pay taxes, get cheaper daycare.
My wife works too few hours for the amount of daycare we receive though so we are only partially subsidized. The city wanted to sponsor us but for 80,- per month more we can also use daycare during the school holidays :P Since we are mustachian this is no problem.

The law over here is also that at least minimum wage is paid by wire, the amount over minimum wage can be paid in cash. This is for a few reasons I can think of:
1. If you owe someone money, this makes it possible to deduct part of the with a judge's approval
2. Most costs like housing, electric, healthcare etc. Can only be paid via bank transfer, if you have at least the bare minimum there are fewer chances of not being able to pay on time.

It totally makes sense for the employer to have to pay at least the minimum wage in cash. Ultimately this protects the worker most of of all.

But that's not what I meant. As a user of childcare who received subsidy (kot) which for non-Dutch readers is almost every two-income family in the country, to qualify for the subsidy you need to prove you've actually paid the invoices. You can get random checks. This part makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is that an invoice signed off by the receiver of the payment is not valid proof of payment. You need to accompany every invoice with a copy of your bank statement showing either the transfer to the daycare's bank account or a withdrawal of the exact amount of cash at the same date as the payment was made. If you cannot do this - for example because you're a money launderer, or because you like to budget with cash and withdraw your money from your account when it's paid, of because you're a small business owner who receives payments in cash and doesn't want to pay a lot of costs to put that money in the bank to withdraw it later on, you have to pay all the received subsidy back. This can be a 4/5-figure sum a year and they can go back 5 years.

I do think it is really unfair to lump every single cash payment in with fraud. Cash money is valid currency and it should stay that way. The way our law and tax authorities think right now, is 'if you use cash you are a criminal unless you can prove otherwise and the burden of proof is on you". They are also not honest about this - obviously every receiver of childcare subsidy gets a letter about needing proof of payment but they don't tell that they don't accept the regular proof of payment, a signed invoice by the receiver.

I see a lot of people with tax debts and 80% of the high tax debts I see is linked to cash payment of invoices. These are debts sometimes higher than a family's yearly income and will put them in poverty for years. I'm confident the vast majority of them aren't criminals.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6179 on: March 30, 2019, 08:31:53 AM »


I don't think I've seen a cheque in 20 years, here in NZ. There might be some old people that still use them. I don't think I've carried cash in about 10 years.
[/quote]

It maybe because I don't have a NZ bank account, but 2 years ago I was required to pay in cash at several of the smaller B&B's when I was traveling there.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6180 on: March 30, 2019, 08:50:47 AM »


I don't think I've seen a cheque in 20 years, here in NZ. There might be some old people that still use them. I don't think I've carried cash in about 10 years.

It maybe because I don't have a NZ bank account, but 2 years ago I was required to pay in cash at several of the smaller B&B's when I was traveling there.
[/quote]

Now this smells like black income to me. Or they simply want to avoid paying a large fee if you pay from a foreign bank account. CC often take 2%, PayPal takes a fee. Did you get a receipt?

Linea_Norway

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6181 on: March 30, 2019, 09:23:35 AM »
Yesterday I visited an aquintance, and Facebook friend. She asked some questions about whether we were now well settled in our new house and liked it there. I don't yet dare to come out of the closet as a next year Fire person, so I couldn't honostly answer that I regret having bought a clownhouse and that we are going to downsize next year to free up all those savings that we put in it. I mumbled something about the house being too big and a lot of work to clean and paint.
Then she asked where I would like to live. I answered that if we didn't have to consider jobs, we would move out into the country, somewhere along the coast, otherwise our current area is fine.
Difficult that I don't feel comfortable to tell the full truth that our plan next year is to do all that, selling and moving into the country.

pdxmonkey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6182 on: March 30, 2019, 11:31:44 PM »
I have two MPPs today.  The first is that it's payday, but I scheduled all my transfers and payments earlier in the week so I didn't have to do anything except double check my spreadsheet.  I don't even get to update the net worth tab until Monday.  I like playing with my money dammit (as long as I'm just moving it from one of my accounts to another and not paying someone else).

The second problem is that I met with a rep from the HDHP that I'm probably going to switch to next open season.  She...said I should consider a standard plan instead (I already have one of those.
 I was asking how the preauthorization worked on one of my husband's prescriptions because his doctor's office is notoriously late getting the paperwork filed on it).  Then she had to go to her car to get the brochure because I'm the only person who ever asks about it.

What do other people do on pay day?!
Heck if I know. We moved to fortnightly pay and so now I can never remember which week payday is. I liked it better when it was once a month on the same day of the month. It's actually a problem getting paid more often because it's harder to automate everything and I have to check things more often.

I didn't think it would be a big deal, but now I actively dislike it.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 11:33:43 PM by pdxmonkey »

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6183 on: March 31, 2019, 01:34:40 PM »
I had the same problem when our company switched. I actually put in on my calendar as a reminder. My other method is to change my contacts every two weeks. One Friday is payday, the next is new contacts. Works out pretty well.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6184 on: March 31, 2019, 03:08:11 PM »
I have two MPPs today.  The first is that it's payday, but I scheduled all my transfers and payments earlier in the week so I didn't have to do anything except double check my spreadsheet.  I don't even get to update the net worth tab until Monday.  I like playing with my money dammit (as long as I'm just moving it from one of my accounts to another and not paying someone else).

The second problem is that I met with a rep from the HDHP that I'm probably going to switch to next open season.  She...said I should consider a standard plan instead (I already have one of those.
 I was asking how the preauthorization worked on one of my husband's prescriptions because his doctor's office is notoriously late getting the paperwork filed on it).  Then she had to go to her car to get the brochure because I'm the only person who ever asks about it.

What do other people do on pay day?!
Heck if I know. We moved to fortnightly pay and so now I can never remember which week payday is. I liked it better when it was once a month on the same day of the month. It's actually a problem getting paid more often because it's harder to automate everything and I have to check things more often.

I didn't think it would be a big deal, but now I actively dislike it.
I've done both and it *shouldn't* be a big deal.

You make $x in each half of the month (plus twice a year you make twice that).   Pay your bills on the same day each month and the money should be there once you get things started -- if you didn't spend it all beforehand.   

I recommend keeping a paycheck's worth of cash in your checking account as a buffer just in case an employer (or yourself) does something stupid.

Sugaree

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6185 on: April 01, 2019, 07:42:46 AM »
I have two MPPs today.  The first is that it's payday, but I scheduled all my transfers and payments earlier in the week so I didn't have to do anything except double check my spreadsheet.  I don't even get to update the net worth tab until Monday.  I like playing with my money dammit (as long as I'm just moving it from one of my accounts to another and not paying someone else).

The second problem is that I met with a rep from the HDHP that I'm probably going to switch to next open season.  She...said I should consider a standard plan instead (I already have one of those.
 I was asking how the preauthorization worked on one of my husband's prescriptions because his doctor's office is notoriously late getting the paperwork filed on it).  Then she had to go to her car to get the brochure because I'm the only person who ever asks about it.

What do other people do on pay day?!
Heck if I know. We moved to fortnightly pay and so now I can never remember which week payday is. I liked it better when it was once a month on the same day of the month. It's actually a problem getting paid more often because it's harder to automate everything and I have to check things more often.

I didn't think it would be a big deal, but now I actively dislike it.
I've done both and it *shouldn't* be a big deal.

You make $x in each half of the month (plus twice a year you make twice that).   Pay your bills on the same day each month and the money should be there once you get things started -- if you didn't spend it all beforehand.   

I recommend keeping a paycheck's worth of cash in your checking account as a buffer just in case an employer (or yourself) does something stupid.

It shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does.  Sometimes you get paid on the 6th, but bills are due on the first and late on the 5th.  I personally deal with this by using a spreadsheet that lays out when I'll get paid and when things are due so that I can tell way ahead of time what bills need to be paid out of each check.  I don't get the benefit of having that "extra" paycheck twice a year, but I do get to keep any extra in interest-earning accounts rather than in checking. 

RWD

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6186 on: April 01, 2019, 07:50:39 AM »
I recommend keeping a paycheck's worth of cash in your checking account as a buffer just in case an employer (or yourself) does something stupid.

It shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does.  Sometimes you get paid on the 6th, but bills are due on the first and late on the 5th.  I personally deal with this by using a spreadsheet that lays out when I'll get paid and when things are due so that I can tell way ahead of time what bills need to be paid out of each check.  I don't get the benefit of having that "extra" paycheck twice a year, but I do get to keep any extra in interest-earning accounts rather than in checking. 

Years back I missed a mortgage payment because a recurring transfer I had set up failed (banked changed systems and didn't keep my settings). Since then I always keep a one-month buffer in my checking accounts.

letsdoit

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6187 on: April 01, 2019, 08:06:10 AM »
talking to old head she said 'in many many years when you retire..."
thinking to myself, 'dont say anything about FIRE!"

Dicey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6188 on: April 01, 2019, 09:08:10 AM »
Yesterday I visited an aquintance, and Facebook friend. She asked some questions about whether we were now well settled in our new house and liked it there. I don't yet dare to come out of the closet as a next year Fire person, so I couldn't honostly answer that I regret having bought a clownhouse and that we are going to downsize next year to free up all those savings that we put in it. I mumbled something about the house being too big and a lot of work to clean and paint.
Then she asked where I would like to live. I answered that if we didn't have to consider jobs, we would move out into the country, somewhere along the coast, otherwise our current area is fine.
Difficult that I don't feel comfortable to tell the full truth that our plan next year is to do all that, selling and moving into the country.
You could always say that your conversation with her was inspirational. It doesn't matter that your plan is well underway. Your chatting about it with her just reinforces your decision, doesn't it?

Linea_Norway

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6189 on: April 01, 2019, 09:55:56 AM »
Yesterday I visited an aquintance, and Facebook friend. She asked some questions about whether we were now well settled in our new house and liked it there. I don't yet dare to come out of the closet as a next year Fire person, so I couldn't honostly answer that I regret having bought a clownhouse and that we are going to downsize next year to free up all those savings that we put in it. I mumbled something about the house being too big and a lot of work to clean and paint.
Then she asked where I would like to live. I answered that if we didn't have to consider jobs, we would move out into the country, somewhere along the coast, otherwise our current area is fine.
Difficult that I don't feel comfortable to tell the full truth that our plan next year is to do all that, selling and moving into the country.
You could always say that your conversation with her was inspirational. It doesn't matter that your plan is well underway. Your chatting about it with her just reinforces your decision, doesn't it?

The talk with her was inspirational. She has 50 jobs as being a financial custodian for someone who requested that. Now, 50 is a lot. She said that some people request constant contact. She had to block them on her phone to not call her all day and night. But some others are dement people with millions on the bank. All the payments go automatically and she has no work on them. I found this last category interesting as a possible side gig after I FIRE. You need a good police record (= no police record), and need to be good with finances. Sounds like I'm qualified. She currently has 50 clients, because it is her only job and she needs a certain income. She wanted to downsize to 25 clients and get a normal parttime job.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 12:34:13 AM by Linea_Norway »

Imma

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6190 on: April 01, 2019, 02:18:56 PM »
My MPP: I bought some new bras and received €5 store credit that is linked to my personal account and only valid for 3 months. I just bought new bras, I'm not going to need more new ones before the summer!
Which is exactly the reason why they gave you the 5€. Because you feel pressed to use them. 

And some people still wonder what all that talk about consumerism is ;)

The credit used to be valid for 12 months so this was not a nice surprise. Now it's valid for only 3 months there's no point in using the loyalty card anymore. If I don't get the credit anymore, they don't get the data anymore :)

Aaaaand there's another nasty surprise with the bras, so I definitely need to go back to the store this week.

I bought the same model of bra, in the same size, in 3 colours. I tried on one bra in the store, which fit well, then I bought 2 others in different colours. I was assured by the shop girl they were exactly the same, they look the same, the label says it's the same model.... But when I tried them on at home they weren't right and it turns out the underwire is more than a cm shorter. I hate lingerie shopping :(

RetiredAt63

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6191 on: April 01, 2019, 03:03:05 PM »
But when I tried them on at home they weren't right and it turns out the underwire is more than a cm shorter. I hate lingerie shopping :(

I hate the lack of quality control.  I know my size in my usual brand, but when I buy replacements I have to try every single one on, or measure the band, because there can be over an inch difference in the same size.  It is nice to be able to breathe.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6192 on: April 02, 2019, 11:51:05 PM »
I have two MPPs today.  The first is that it's payday, but I scheduled all my transfers and payments earlier in the week so I didn't have to do anything except double check my spreadsheet.  I don't even get to update the net worth tab until Monday.  I like playing with my money dammit (as long as I'm just moving it from one of my accounts to another and not paying someone else).

The second problem is that I met with a rep from the HDHP that I'm probably going to switch to next open season.  She...said I should consider a standard plan instead (I already have one of those.
 I was asking how the preauthorization worked on one of my husband's prescriptions because his doctor's office is notoriously late getting the paperwork filed on it).  Then she had to go to her car to get the brochure because I'm the only person who ever asks about it.

What do other people do on pay day?!
Heck if I know. We moved to fortnightly pay and so now I can never remember which week payday is. I liked it better when it was once a month on the same day of the month. It's actually a problem getting paid more often because it's harder to automate everything and I have to check things more often.

I didn't think it would be a big deal, but now I actively dislike it.
I've done both and it *shouldn't* be a big deal.

You make $x in each half of the month (plus twice a year you make twice that).   Pay your bills on the same day each month and the money should be there once you get things started -- if you didn't spend it all beforehand.   

I recommend keeping a paycheck's worth of cash in your checking account as a buffer just in case an employer (or yourself) does something stupid.

It shouldn't matter, but sometimes it does.  Sometimes you get paid on the 6th, but bills are due on the first and late on the 5th.  I personally deal with this by using a spreadsheet that lays out when I'll get paid and when things are due so that I can tell way ahead of time what bills need to be paid out of each check.  I don't get the benefit of having that "extra" paycheck twice a year, but I do get to keep any extra in interest-earning accounts rather than in checking.

If you can live on half a month with 2 weeks worth of paycheck, then once you get the process started you should always be fine. 

The paycheck received in the 2nd half of the month covers the bills that are due in the first half of the next month.   The paycheck received in the 1st half of the month covers the bills that are due in the second half of the month.  It really is that simple.

And if you are paid for 52 weeks a year, if you are paid every 2 weeks, you should be getting three paychecks in a month twice a year.    That's just how the math works out.

pdxmonkey

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6193 on: April 03, 2019, 12:09:51 AM »
It's still a pain in the butt. I can live off 2 weeks pay for about 3 months. So having to log in and transfer money instead of automating it is a pain. It really is that simple. And then you have to figure out if you're gonna get paid again before next time bills are due in order to figure out how much to transfer to investments.

It's way more of a pain than get paid on the 15th every month. Have bills always auto pay on the 16th. Have a role setup on the 17th or manually log in ONCE and transfer all the rest to investments. It really is that simple! Which is way simpler than having a bunch of float like you suggest.

Parizade

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6194 on: April 03, 2019, 12:35:47 PM »
A frugal friend invited me up for a girl's weekend. It was wonderful to sit and drink Aldi tea, share our fun retirement plans, and discuss portfolio balancing and when to convert 401k funds to IRAs. Not your stereotypical girltalk,  but just what I needed.  I have so few gal friends who speak FIRE, wish I had more.

GreenSheep

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6195 on: April 03, 2019, 02:46:00 PM »
A frugal friend invited me up for a girl's weekend. It was wonderful to sit and drink Aldi tea, share our fun retirement plans, and discuss portfolio balancing and when to convert 401k funds to IRAs. Not your stereotypical girltalk,  but just what I needed.  I have so few gal friends who speak FIRE, wish I had more.

That sounds so nice! If I lived in Minnesota, I'd be asking to join next time!

Parizade

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6196 on: April 03, 2019, 04:17:54 PM »
A frugal friend invited me up for a girl's weekend. It was wonderful to sit and drink Aldi tea, share our fun retirement plans, and discuss portfolio balancing and when to convert 401k funds to IRAs. Not your stereotypical girltalk,  but just what I needed.  I have so few gal friends who speak FIRE, wish I had more.

That sounds so nice! If I lived in Minnesota, I'd be asking to join next time!
You would be welcome! I didn't think of it as a problem until after, when I realized it just doesn't happen often enough.

SwordGuy

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6197 on: April 04, 2019, 07:03:24 AM »
It's still a pain in the butt. I can live off 2 weeks pay for about 3 months. So having to log in and transfer money instead of automating it is a pain. It really is that simple. And then you have to figure out if you're gonna get paid again before next time bills are due in order to figure out how much to transfer to investments.

It's way more of a pain than get paid on the 15th every month. Have bills always auto pay on the 16th. Have a role setup on the 17th or manually log in ONCE and transfer all the rest to investments. It really is that simple! Which is way simpler than having a bunch of float like you suggest.

Of course being paid on exactly the same days each month is simpler.  Never said it wasn't.

I said being paid every two weeks is no big deal and you can automate it just fine.

You are guaranteed to receive at least one paycheck in the first half of each month.  It might arrive on the 1st, it might arrive on the 15th.   It doesn't matter.   You set up your automated payments for that paycheck on the 16th or afterwards.   

You are guaranteed to receive at least one paycheck in the 2nd half of each month.  It might arrive on the 16th or the 31st.  Again, it doesn't matter.  Youset up your automated payments for that paycheck on the 1st or afterwards.

The reason you're having trouble is that you're trying to pay the 1st half of the month's bills with the paycheck received in the 1st half of the month.   Now, THAT's a pain in the butt because the day changes each month.   

I pay the 1st half of the month bills with the money received in the 2nd half of the prior month.  Doesn't matter what day the money shows up because I won't be spending it until the 1st.    Same-same with the other half month's worth of bills.



Morning Glory

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6198 on: April 07, 2019, 11:27:53 AM »
Ooh, I have one!!! Yesterday I got a letter in the mail from Target because I haven't used my Red Card in a while and they want to make sure I didn't lose it. I just haven't used it in a while because I still have gift cards that I bought in December when they were 10% off.

dragoncar

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Re: Mustachian People Problems (just for fun)
« Reply #6199 on: April 07, 2019, 12:51:46 PM »
Ooh, I have one!!! Yesterday I got a letter in the mail from Target because I haven't used my Red Card in a while and they want to make sure I didn't lose it. I just haven't used it in a while because I still have gift cards that I bought in December when they were 10% off.

They canceled mine for inactivity so keep that in mind.  To be fair they did give us warning and we still forgot to use it