Mustachian international travel / backpacking

[TwoWheels]

I'm leaving next week for a three-week trip to Italy. I'm going to spend the first week exploring and the next two at a music festival. This will be my first time traveling to another country alone and I can't wait! But I also have a lot to learn, particularly when it comes to preserving the 'stache.

I'm flying into Rome; my plan is to explore there for a few days and then take a train to Venice. From there I'm considering renting a motorcycle for a couple days and riding through Austria into southern Germany and back to Venice. Then I'm taking a train to Florence and then back to Rome. I plan on staying at hostels and will be booking them ahead of time online where possible.

I would really appreciate any Mustachian tips from those who have done this sort of thing before. Did you eat at cheap restaurants or did you go to grocery stores? Any advice on getting the best public transit deals? What about lodging? (General advice about international travel is also appreciated since in the past I've always gone with family, stayed in resorts, and generally been a tourist. This time I'm looking for a bit more adventure.)

[theglobetrotter]

I don't know about motorcycle license but for car driving, one needs an international driver's license for Italy. So, you may want to check if you will need an IDL.

I have never done hostels but I know a few people who have done it and quite pleased with the stay. Some hostels have a kitchen. If yours does, eating in can help with cost. I am a foodie (I live to work and eat I think -- I thank my skinny genes each and every day since I eat so much :)) and when traveling, the Mustachian style doesn't come in between us. I would do Michelin Star etc if I feel like it, but I do try to cut cost by cooking breakfast, packing sandwiches for lunch, or eat a local cheap street food. We usually rent an apartment and so cooking/food prepping is always easy. On the go, grocery store or local shop. In Germany, try a kebab. Delicious! Maybe €4? Or falafel. Yum!! I know it's not a German dish but the best kebab shops are in Germany and France. I do like the sites but I mainly travel for food, culture and people so between a €20 lunch or ticket to Varican, I'd go for lunch. Speaking of, if you're going to see the sights, book in advance if possible. The queues can be really long!!

For train, you can visit www.seat61.com for train info. But tickets at the station. Draw money using ATM, better exchange rate, check if your bank charges an international fee. European ATMs are free. Ask for tap water. Especially in Germany. Or beer :) If you ask for water, they may bring you bottled water and better yet, sparkling water.

Have fun!!

[curlycue]

Hostels all the way.

Also, Hostels always have a fridge and kitchen where you can cook. If you buy yogurt or something for breakfast, pick up some fresh bread and cheese and fruit for lunch, then get some cheap street food or pizza for dinner you are golden. Budget your money so that one or two nights in each city you can eat somewhere nice.

Also, take advantage of the free walking tours to get yourself oriented with big cities like Rome, they just ask for tips and point out all the best deals, best times to go to touristy places (like the best time to get in line for the Vatican museum, etc.).

You can actually do Italy as a fairly cheap trip, but have a very high life time and see all the major sites. Enjoy it!

[DeepEllumStache]

Another vote for hostels, especially when traveling alone.  It's usually well priced and you'll have a chance to meet a variety of frugal travelers.  Fellow hostelers will sometimes have great tips on things to see and do.

When traveling alone, I normally hit the local grocery stores and only eat out once or twice a week.  It's always interesting to compare foreign grocery stores to what you are used to.

[jbcivics]

Best of luck on your travels. I'll try to give you some specifics, hope this helps:

First of all, from a general philosophy standpoint, you will always do better by living like a local. MMM covered a lot of this in a post about how he and his family handled the supposed high cost of living in Hawaii (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/12/15/high-cost-of-living-its-a-state-of-mind/).  Bottom line, do as the locals do.

Eating

Buy food at grocery stores instead of eating at restaurants for every meal. Find a grocery store (often found in more authentic off-the-beaten-path neighborhoods instead of areas overrun with toursits) and buy a baguette, tomatoes, cheese and salami. Save meals out for when you can really enjoy them, and not just because it's time to eat again. The good news is, you can find amazing italian products for cheap in the grocery stores (fresh bread, jars of pesto, fresh produce, etc.). I'd take a picnic by the canal in Venice or in a park in Rome vs. an overpriced tourist trap restaurant any day. Note - open air markets can be amazing value if they are ones locals frequent. If they are set up in a major tourist area, they are probably overpriced. I've lived in Germany and the Netherlands, and every city has several markets that are open several times per week where you can get amazing fresh products for incredibly low prices. Do a bit of research and you can hit these up. It's also a great way to see the city and have a cultural experience!

Lodging

There are tons of hostels, as well as camp sites, airbnb, etc. This really depends on personal preference, but there are always cheaper alternatives than a hotel. Also, look at locations outside of the main tourist areas and take the metro/subway/bus in. Again, live like a local, most locals don't live right by the spanish steps or Coliseum!

Transportation

First, there is always public transportation between the airport to the city center. There will always be convenient, higher priced taxis and shuttles, but you know what we all think about convenience, right? Do some research before you fly so that you know what to expect when you land.

If you love motorcycles and can get a cheap rental, it sounds like an amazing way to travel. With that said, be aware gas is much more expensive in Europe. Trains are a great way to go, if you do some research. Depending on how much travel you are doing, you can buy discount cards although they tend to be very expensive up front, so you’ll have to know how much you will be traveling to calculate whether it’s worth it. In Germany specifically, check out the Landerticket (unlimited regional travel for one day) and SchonesWochenende Ticket (unlimited 2nd class travel for one day for up to 5 people with one ticket!). These tickets are often also valid for city public transportation, so be sure to factor that in to your calculations. With both these tickets, traveling in groups can greatly reduce your costs – so make some friends at a hostel and save money together!

There is a healthy carpool culture in Germany (not sure about Italy or Austria). Sites like http://www.mitfahrgelegenheit.de/ connect you with drivers going to various locations, and it can be a cheap way to travel and meet people! Many people I know, including my wife, have used these services and I haven’t heard of any safety issues, but always use common sense.
So while a motorcycle can be cool, there are a lot of other travel options to get around as well.

Attractions

Many museums have certain days where entrance is free. Do some research. Many cities also have a city discount card that gives you cheap priority entrance to the state-run museums (Rome Card, Florence Card). Figure out what you want to see and then you can decide if these cards are worth it for you. The cards often also give discounts on public transportation. Also check sites like http://www.europeforfree.travel/ to find free events.

A few rules
If you are a wise mustachian traveler, you should never have to:
-use a taxi
-eat at a random restaurant because you are hungry (as opposed to doing some research, finding a place that sounds amazing, and consciously making the decision to spend your money to eat there for fun)
-stay at a full-priced hotel

A few specific tips:
Rome - check out the neighborhood of Trastevere (pronounced Tras-TE-veray) once you get tired of the main attractions. It’s a beautiful neighborhood but tends not to be overrun with tourists.

Venice – check out this article: http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2009/jan/21/cheap-restaurants-venice-food-italy. I can highly recommend #2 and #3. Great fun, lots of locals and excellent value for eating out. For #2, Taverna del Campiello Remer, you basically buy one drink and get access to an unlimited buffet of amazing food. That is, if you can find the place – it’s pretty hidden!

Florence - http://www.yelp.com/biz/i-2-fratellini-firenze I Due Fratellini - it’s popular with tourists just steps away from the Duomo, but it’s cheap and great if you get hungry while seeing the sites.

Germany - If you find yourself in Munich and want beer and pork, skip the tourist trap that is Hofbrauhaus and instead take a day trip to Andechs, a Benedictine abbey where they do two things VERY well: brew beer and raise pigs. You can get there on the S-bahn and a 3km hike to the monastery. You won’t regret it. http://wikitravel.org/en/Andechs. It’s free to get into the abbey and the food is very affordable. Here are some pics: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jonnybcivics/sets/72157629811233770/

Also, you are always allowed to bring your own food to a biergarten in Germany!

Finally, if you want to stop into a nice cafe for an Espresso or get some gelato, go for it. I found these to be cheap, awesome pick-me-ups that made me enjoy my travels and not feel like I was pinching every penny even though I was operating on a low budget. Your mustachianism should co-exist with and enhance your enjoyment of travel, making you feel closer to a place and the people there.

Good luck, let me know if you have any questions!

-j

[Eric]

If you're looking to avoid restaurants, it's still really easy to eat well.  There are lots of open air markets and delis, especially in the major cities, that you can use to make a nice meal on the cheap.  Get a nice loaf of bread, some salami, a hunk of cheese, and some fruit for about $5/meal and you're still eating really well.  And of course there's always pizza or panini.  Just watch out for the pigeons when picnicking, especially in Venice.  They'll swarm you if the see you eating out in the open and you'll have to pack up and move on before you can finish.

Oh, and carry a re-fillable water bottle.  Everyone drinks bottled water in Italy so it's expected you will too, but that's a really unnecessary expense.

[TwoWheels]

Thanks so much everyone! This really helps a lot.

I am trying to book train tickets and DAMN are they expensive. I had no idea that these things were like airline tickets in that you need to book way in advance to get a good rate. A train from Rome to Venice next Friday is 80€, which to me is kind of ridiculous. I have a friend who told me that she just bought tickets at the station the day of and got reasonable prices, but seat61.com says the opposite ("tickets will be more expensive bought on the day, much cheaper booked in advance"). Any thoughts on this?

[Kierun]

Good advice above.  Don't know if you've considered Cinque Terre, but it's my favorite place in Italy when I went there.  Might be worth a side trip during your backpacking if your itinerary allows for such flexibility.

[tanhanivar]

Also, I've found hostels can feel much safer for a solo traveller. Fancy hotels tend to be in quiet/business districts, while hostels are frequently (though not always) in noisier, livelier areas where there are lights and people and a police presence (I've never felt safer as a solo female traveller than staying in a hostel in Kings Cross Sydney!). You're in a dormitory rather than a room in a dark corridor, you can ask people questions and frequently team up for expeditions.

Plus, they're just much less *lonely*. On my last trip to the states I stayed in a hostel and a very fancy hotel (thanks parents!), but spent evenings at the latter sweet-talking the bartender into giving me more maraschino cherries. At the hostel I went on free walking tours, made friends with my roommates, chatted in the bathroom queue with retired school teachers...

[Eric]

I am trying to book train tickets and DAMN are they expensive. I had no idea that these things were like airline tickets in that you need to book way in advance to get a good rate. A train from Rome to Venice next Friday is 80€, which to me is kind of ridiculous. I have a friend who told me that she just bought tickets at the station the day of and got reasonable prices, but seat61.com says the opposite ("tickets will be more expensive bought on the day, much cheaper booked in advance"). Any thoughts on this?

That seems like too much.  I was there 2 years ago and never booked a single advance ticket.  My reasoning was that the main routes never sell out, so I wanted the flexibility to stay where I was for an extra day or jet out early in the morning depending on whether I'd been able to squeeze in everything I wanted.  For example, we loved Venice, but had only planned 2 days, so we stored out luggage with our hotel (they all do this) and spent an extra 6 hours before we headed out for Florence.

But anyway, I just checked www.trenitalia.com (click on the Union Jack in the upper right hand corner for English) which is the actual ticketing site, not a 3rd party site, and I found tickets from Roma Termini (main Rome station) to Venezia S Lucia (main Venice station) on June 27, and I got..... 80 Euros.  Damn.

I just checked my spreadsheet and the most I paid for any ticket 2 years ago was 43 Euros.  For reference, I put in Roma Termini to Firenze S M Novella (main Florence station) for next Friday and got... 43 Euros.

So I think that's just the price to go from Rome to Venice.  It's a pretty long distance.  That's as much as it's going to be though, I'm almost positive.  I wouldn't book it in advance.

[randymarsh]

I spent a weekend in Rome when studying abroad (Torino) and I thought food was pretty affordable. We went to a casual sit down (possibly touristy?) restaurant and I think it was about 10 euros. Cheaper options were available too from street vendors or if you just wanted a quick snack. Plenty of markets and convenience stores if you want to pick up some grocery items.

Do you already have a place to stay in Rome? Our group of 6 stayed in a hostel a few blocks away from the Termini station. Alessandro DOWNTOWN: http://www.hostelsalessandro.com/description-hostel-downtown-IDL1.htm#ad-image-5
It's not the cheapest hostel you'll probably find, but I thought it was a great value and of course it was a steal compared to any nice Rome hotel. Felt safe to me; there are some panhandlers near the train station and surrounding areas. Room was keycard secured. Our room had these lockers you could use for storage and there was a place for a padlock if you had one. We didn't need to use this since our group had the entire room. Bathrooms were really nice, especially for a hostel.

I would probably get the "Roma Pass". http://www.romapass.it/p.aspx?l=en&tid=2 It includes admission to 2 museums and access to subways/buses/trains within the city. The real reason you want it though is because it gets you into a special Colosseum line. If we hadn't had these, we probably would have waited at least 2 hours to get in. Worth it for that alone. IMO it's also kind of a souvenir - it looks like a thick cardboard credit card.

[Eggman111]

I have a friend who told me that she just bought tickets at the station the day of and got reasonable prices, but seat61.com says the opposite ("tickets will be more expensive bought on the day, much cheaper booked in advance"). Any thoughts on this?

I was reading on seat61 recently and the author puts that quote into context elsewhere. "In advance" means several weeks (up to about 90 days) before the trip. In that sense it is similar to airline tickets. The site also mentions that it's not often necessary to book tickets for some trips. This section might help, if you didn't see it before: http://www.seat61.com/Europe-train-tickets.htm#Can_you_just_buy_at_the_station

[melime]

When I travelled in Italy (summer 2011), there were multiple classes of train. The most expensive (possibly the only ones you can buy online?) were the quickest, but if you had another few hours, you could take a slower train for half to a third the price. We also enjoyed them as there were a lot more locals on board - though sometimes also no air conditioning! I seem to remember Rome - Naples was 16 euro vs 40 for the fast train. We just bought tickets at the station.

[former player]

If you have the time, avoiding the through Express trains and taking the slower trains with changes is definitely cheaper.

Hostels are your best bet for cheap accommodation.  Have you booked a hostel in Venice?  Venice can be insanely expensive/crowded in summer.  For transport within Venice, walking is best (there are bridges between all the central islands, although they can be the long way round), otherwise take the Vaporetti (water buses).  Gondolas are strictly for looking at. 

[lpep]

I WWOOFed all around the UK for a couple months right after graduating from college, and in two and a half months, including a week in Switzerland, spent probably less than $2000. It was AMAZING! My tips for you:

- Plan ALL logistics in advance. Know how you're going to get from the airport to the hotel, from hotel to bus station, from that bus station to your next place to stay (I always keep written directions in a notebook, step by step. So useful.). Know when checkout/checkin times are. This is peace of mind and eliminates some useless expenses.

- Mentally prepare for some shitty times. Hostels can be really loud, and you probably won't sleep very well. That said, build into your logistics some time to either have a private room at a hostel - if you plan ahead, you'll know which ones are cheaper and can book those. It's worth it to spend a little extra for a good night's sleep every once in awhile!

- Buy breakfast at least at a grocery store. Grocery shopping in foreign countries is fun anyway, and who really enjoys going out for a hurried breakfast before going to a full day of sightseeing? I'd rather get it over with. Plus: CHEESE. What else do you need?

- For travel: consider taking buses. They take longer sometimes, but they can actually be quite surprisingly good (and I get very motion sick!). And this goes back to mentally preparing for some shitty times :) Or try Ryanair (again... mental preparation).

- Consider Couchsurfing, or AirBnB. AirBnB, if you plan ahead, you can find some great places! And Couchsurfing is another good option (I've never done it, but know plenty of people who have and far and away have only had good experiences).

- General tips: know your limits, and bring good shoes. I tried to do all of London in about two days, and got 8 blisters and was exhausted! Take it easy, and if you miss something, just know you got the full experience at the places you did see!

[lpep]

Oh lordie, one more tip - please don't backpack. On my trip, I thought it would be useful, but Europe is mostly paved. Save your back. Bring a rollie suitcase.

You won't look as cool, but you won't miss a backpack :)

[CanuckStache]

I've spent probably the equivalent of years backpacking around Europe. Of course, this was all about a decade ago (god that makes me feel old). Definitely pre-smartphone days.

Where I used to carry a basic guide book, you can now just download those and put them on your phone. Speaking of which, make sure you get your phone unlocked and pick up either local pre-paid sim cards or an international sim card you can top-up online. Google it.

Hostels are great, but read the reviews first...I definitely stayed in some terrible, disgusting hostels. Most are good, but with the wonders of the internet at our disposal these days, you can do a little research first. Also book in advance..I can't tell you how many days I wasted bouncing from hostel to hostel because they'd all be full.

Definitely pick up a few local words / phrases. And the absolutely best thing you can do is make friends with locals. Then you'll learn all about the 'real' attractions, and maybe get invited out to various events which will give you a true cultural experience.

Always have a couple extra beers in your backpack. You never know who you meet on trains and at hostels, and it's always nice to include people where possible. Some of my best friends I met while travelling on night-trains and such. I was even the best man at one of their weddings not too long ago :)

Above all - have fun and don't take things seriously! The best days you'll have are when everything seems to go wrong. You miss a train. It starts to rain. You misplace your bags for a moment, etc etc. Bad days make for the best stories after the fact.

[Silvie]

Are you going to do all of that in 1 week? Sounds a bit much. It would take much more than a week just to explore Rome. I would do maybe 1 or 2 side trips, and stay in Rome for the rest of your stay. Cheaper and just as much fun.

[Eric]

Oh lordie, one more tip - please don't backpack. On my trip, I thought it would be useful, but Europe is mostly paved. Save your back. Bring a rollie suitcase.

You won't look as cool, but you won't miss a backpack :)

I would disagree with this.  I was very happy we brought our backpacks instead of suitcases.  Between the cobblestone streets, the curbs with no ramps, and all the steps (especially in Venice), I thought the backpack was way easier than a suitcase would've been.  Not sure how cool I looked though.  I imagine pretty cool, as that's just my baseline coolness, nothing to do with the backpack. :)

[randymarsh]

Oh lordie, one more tip - please don't backpack. On my trip, I thought it would be useful, but Europe is mostly paved. Save your back. Bring a rollie suitcase.

You won't look as cool, but you won't miss a backpack :)

I would disagree with this.  I was very happy we brought our backpacks instead of suitcases.  Between the cobblestone streets, the curbs with no ramps, and all the steps (especially in Venice), I thought the backpack was way easier than a suitcase would've been.  Not sure how cool I looked though.  I imagine pretty cool, as that's just my baseline coolness, nothing to do with the backpack. :)

There are some fancy backpacks with wheels so you sort of get the best of both worlds: http://www.amazon.com/High-Sierra-Freewheel-Wheeled-Backpack/dp/B003BOBF0G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1403281290&sr=8-2&keywords=bookbag+wheels

A friend of mine in Italy had one like this: http://www.thenorthface.com/catalog/sc-gear/equipment-technical-packs-filter-category-hiking/terra-35.html?variationId=K7H&variationName=TNF%20BLACK%20/%20MONUMENT%20GREY
It was awesome because it fit a ton of stuff but RyanAir would count it as a carry on.

Rolling a backpack does scream tourist to me in a way wearing one doesn't though.

[Creep]

Hi, somebody touched upon this already. I recommend car pooling websites. Here is I think the biggest one with offers of seats in cars from Rome to Venice over the coming days.

http://www.blablacar.com/search?fn=rome&fc=41.8723889|12.4801802&fcc=IT&tn=venice&tc=&tcc=

It's a great way to meet a local, have the extra comforts of a car journey, and pay less than you might by train.

I intend to use this method to do a roadtrip between Brussels, Belgium and Krakow, Poland in the first half of July.

Also, eating good food is still relatively inexpensive in Italy, a country that has gone from super-affordable to the opposite in the 16 years I have been going there. Do some research about osterias (osterie would be the correct plural of course) or trattorias (trattorie) wherever you end up. A morning espresso in a coffee bar also remains a great, cheap cultural experience.

[TwoWheels]

Hi, somebody touched upon this already. I recommend car pooling websites. Here is I think the biggest one with offers of seats in cars from Rome to Venice over the coming days.

http://www.blablacar.com/search?fn=rome&fc=41.8723889|12.4801802&fcc=IT&tn=venice&tc=&tcc=

It's a great way to meet a local, have the extra comforts of a car journey, and pay less than you might by train.

Thank you for this! I looked at several carpooling sites but this one has a lot more options.

A morning espresso in a coffee bar also remains a great, cheap cultural experience.

I'm not much of a coffee drinker, but my friend made me promise her that I'd try an espresso at an Italian coffee bar. :D

Are you going to do all of that in 1 week? Sounds a bit much. It would take much more than a week just to explore Rome. I would do maybe 1 or 2 side trips, and stay in Rome for the rest of your stay. Cheaper and just as much fun.

You may be right...I am definitely trying to cram a lot into a week, but I don't know when I'm going to be back in Italy again. I would rather get out and see as many different places as I can even if it's going to be slightly crazy. After that I'll have a leisurely two weeks in Arcidosso for the music festival. I wish I had more time to explore. I have a feeling I'm going to love Italy.

Speaking of which, make sure you get your phone unlocked and pick up either local pre-paid sim cards or an international sim card you can top-up online. Google it.

Good advice, thanks. My phone's already unlocked so I'll look for somewhere in Rome to get a prepaid SIM card.

Plan ALL logistics in advance. Know how you're going to get from the airport to the hotel, from hotel to bus station, from that bus station to your next place to stay (I always keep written directions in a notebook, step by step. So useful.). Know when checkout/checkin times are. This is peace of mind and eliminates some useless expenses.

Yep, that's what I'm trying to do now. I'm booking all of my hostels today and tomorrow and will make sure I know where I'm going.

Gondolas are strictly for looking at. 

Haha, agreed.

I would probably get the "Roma Pass". http://www.romapass.it/p.aspx?l=en&tid=2 It includes admission to 2 museums and access to subways/buses/trains within the city. The real reason you want it though is because it gets you into a special Colosseum line. If we hadn't had these, we probably would have waited at least 2 hours to get in. Worth it for that alone. IMO it's also kind of a souvenir - it looks like a thick cardboard credit card.

Great idea!

Thank you thank you thank you everyone! Your help has made this so much easier!

[EngineerYogi]

zombie thread or necro-posting? I'm headed to Italy myself this summer for two weeks with my DH and researching what to do, where to stay and this seems the most relevant thread around. Anyone have updated tips or recommendations for Italy tourism? We currently have no itinerary other than travel dates.

[melanie2008]

Thanks so much everyone! This really helps a lot.

I am trying to book train tickets and DAMN are they expensive. I had no idea that these things were like airline tickets in that you need to book way in advance to get a good rate. A train from Rome to Venice next Friday is 80€, which to me is kind of ridiculous. I have a friend who told me that she just bought tickets at the station the day of and got reasonable prices, but seat61.com says the opposite ("tickets will be more expensive bought on the day, much cheaper booked in advance"). Any thoughts on this?

when I was traveling in the EU last year, tickets got more expensive the closer the day came and were more expensive the day of for tickets from Hungry to Austria and then Austria to Italy. I waited to long to get tickets and wanted flexibity so did end up with the interrail ticket. Hostels are great and you can get your own room too. I used booking.com a lot.

[melanie2008]

Oh lordie, one more tip - please don't backpack. On my trip, I thought it would be useful, but Europe is mostly paved. Save your back. Bring a rollie suitcase.

You won't look as cool, but you won't miss a backpack :)

It depends on how big your backpack is. Mine was 25 liters. My husbands was 35 liters I think. It was fine for 3 weeks. We did get some cheap rentals that has a washing machine though. Much easier to just walk around with a small backpack or to run if you about to miss a tram or something! Rollie bags are horrid on cobblestones.

[SaskyStache]

Hey TwoWheels, you are going to have an awesome time.

As mentioned by a lot of people, I think hostels are the way to go, especially being a youngin and travelling on your own. I found a good way to meet people and save money is just to strike up a  conversation and ask if anyone wants to go in on supper. I've made and been a part of a lot of communal meals at hostels and it's usually a win win. Sometimes you might not get any takers, but most of the time it turned out really well, especially if you offer to do the cooking -- if everyone throws in $5 you usually have enough for a meal and a glass of wine each.